Start A High Profit Online Coaching Business in 2025 (Masterclass) | #TheDept Ep. 53

0:00 you've made you said $6 million in coaching over how long of a period of time I spent 8 years8 years coaching so the very first coaching package I sold it was 3 months long it was $180 it was $60 a month we met every single week your first few clients are going to probably be people that know you or like are one degree away from you you have the choice to be the premium version of something or be the Walmart version of something and I think that that needs to be a conscious decision if you are a business owner how important is it to create content as a coach in today's day and age like having a personal brand is a non-negotiable what is influencing them while they're making their buying decision I want something to be there versus them just making that decision like aimlessly on their own okay you want to start a coaching program or you

0:45 want to start coaching what qualifies somebody to coach if I was investing in anything in the very beginning it would just be thank you for being on yeah I don't listen to a ton of podcasts myself I I I love podcasts but I mean like podcasts I subscribe to it it's it's probably five or less and you're on that list no waya said podcast I'm like honored I feel like when you create a lot of content I understand why you don't consume a ton the fact that I'm in your top five or only your five yeah no and part of it is just obvious it's very con OB it's a way you you're very conversational I feel like you I'm feel like I'm getting I'm like in the room with you I'm guessing

1:31 your Tesla is probably a good Studio I mean the sound Dynamics go ham you know it goes ham and I'm glad we're in the room today I'm really looking forward to this yeah I I feel like we are in a time where people are more exposed than ever that they could kind of I think one way to put it is monetize their mind um a simple way to put it is to get into coaching yeah and I like starting the podcasts with a very direct def of something and the I just straight out of the get-go I wanted to ask you you've made you said $6 million in coaching over how long of a period of time I spent eight years eight years coaching yeah and what qualifies somebody to coach proximity to a problem um and I

2:20 feel like a willingness to if you have a heart to teach and just to be of service I think you naturally can end up being a really effective coach but I think proximity to a problem uh I'm like proximity to a problem probably like empathy for another human being uh and like a willingness to to teach and just like hold space with somebody like I think it's like this dynamic between like The Head and the Heart when you can do both well where you have again proximity to some problem some area of expertise and you can like hold space for somebody's humanness while they're like going through the process of figuring something out I feel like those are two really good qualities to make an effective coach and to have a really effective coaching Dynamic how did you know that this was like you

3:05 spent time in like corporate yeah and yeah how did you know you even that that coaching was a a thing I mean I didn't know it was like an industry um in corporate I think like looking back I mean my grandmother and my aunt raised me for a majority of my life and my grandmother was a math teacher and I loved when she would take me to school with her um she like was a teacher in a pretty rough neighborhood but like I I loved her Dynamic with being able to connect with these kids who you you have no idea what their morning was like or what their evening was like before they came to school like school was their safe haven and my grandma was like a grandma to them so like I think seeing that teacher lens early on like I always wanted to be a teacher but I just didn't think they get paid enough to be quite honest um and then so I feel like that was a huge influence on me and part of maybe this

3:50 teacher component of me that shows up in coaching now and then when I was in corporate I called them my personal board of directors they were like my creative parents they were like my mentor my guides and I had like eight to 12 of them at any given time and I look at them they were like my first coaches um so I think that when I look at how I got and stumbled into like this digital marketing world and this coaching world I feel like those are two of the probably the biggest influences that have led to me being the type of profession that I am now and so I would credit it to my grandma and like the mentors I had when I was in corporate because they really coached and guided me sat down with me um I'm like I really want to understand how this I worked at a utility uh we did not get paid off the product that we sold and I just really was fascinated by like how do we make money

4:35 like how does that work um people don't think about natural gas and electricity until it doesn't come on it's very rewarding work but they just the mentorship they gave me and I feel like those two things coupled together and especially in today's market in the last few years like being a coach an effective coach I think requires you wearing kind of multiple roles now being a teacher being an advisor being a coach and under understanding those roles I think that the consumer expectations have evolved and matured where they assume they're going to get a multi like a multi-dynamic experience Now versus maybe the traditional role of what coaching has been 20 30 years ago so good what what was the first problem that you had close proximity to when you first transitioned then into coaching

5:22 yeah I mean like I had a business in college um that's what paid for my senior year of school so like people kind of knew me from that I started the e-commerce business I was selling bandage dresses oh wow to girls to go to frat parties um I had frat party customers and I had like women in Dubai customers like it was very wide range dresses like sucked you in and lifted you up you know that's what the girls wanted um so when I think people kind of knew me from that and when I was in corporate I was in a leadership track and I was just really like progressing up the the ladder quite quickly and people just started asking me like how are you doing this like it seems like whatever you set your mind to you just accomplish it so very first coaching package I sold it was three months long it was $180 it was $60 a month we met every single week um and it was like

6:07 just helping people accomplish their goal so it was really just more of like how do you clearly identify what it is that you want and then how are we going to what are the action steps we need to take to get there so it was very like generic yeah um but people like you just so good are out here hustling and making it work like just show me how you're doing that so that was the first problem uh that I sold but I think proximity a problem as I contined to learn more about business and what people were willing to pay for and pay for with more ease I'm like Jay you need to get specify on the type of problem that you do um and then over time I started to notice this commonality with just like all the different random lived experiences I've had yeah um and saw the commonality thread in that and that's kind of what shaped I think kind of what

6:53 I'm known for now yeah I mean I I would say I feel like you're a coach to coaches yeah I mean a lot of I work with lot of coaches service providers it's expanding a little bit now since I've come back from sabatical but yeah that's awesome you're so smart like crazy I called my grandma on the way here I was like Grandma wish me luck for my interview she said baby you're very intelligent I don't know what you're doing this for but you're going to be great so one thing I even even even more so you're not just very smart you articulate really well and there are smart people that you could consume and feel dumb for listening to them I actually no hate but Jordan Peterson when I listen to him I feel Dumber cuz I'm I don't know I just do and I me I think the tonality is really important I

7:39 think also we're we're in a I think a that I feel like that approach actually worked really well in like 20168 to like 2018 um but I feel like now like people are one your consumers are super sophisticated like we like they like they don't need anybody else layering on more shame or amplifying the insecurities cuz like we're in an era and everybody's heightened awareness to like their flaws so I I'm really appreciate that um that's something that you feel when you consume my content because I'm like I think that there's heightened anxiety right now depression right now like we don't need somebody else we listening to to make us feel like even worse right um so I'm like speak possibility into what you're doing which I think is a great like marketing Strate and we'll get deeper into how you've marketed your your coaching is is

8:27 work really hard to make it easy for you to be listened to yeah you know and and I mean that's what I feel like because they're so easy to consume I know you're putting in the work you're you're putting in the thinking work and the process work you know hey Department fan wanted to take a brief break from this conversation I hope you're enjoying it as much as I am and the first thing I wanted to talk about is that did you know that 75% of the people that watch this podcast on YouTube actually aren't subscribed which is a high chance that you're not subscribed so number one I want to say thank you for listening or watching the podcast and number two if you can hit that subscribe button that would be amazing the second thing is if you are an entrepreneur content creator or somebody looking to make money online I want to encourage you to come to this online event called the content to cash

9:13 challenge this is a special 5-day event that's going to give you access to the system I use in my business to make multiple six figures with my content if you've been Desiring to either get your business and brand more exposure grow a YouTube channel whatever it is when it comes to a video I would encourage you to jump into the content to cast challenge we'll be sure to post the link to the challenge down in the show notes or the description and I want to encourage you to jump into the VIP experience this will give you access to a 1-hour Q&A call every day of the challenge this will guarantee myself to answer a personalized question you may have so I'll see you on the content to cash challenge now let's jump back into the conversation and therapy I mean I think that's also why consumers are now maybe feeling um a residue they no

10:00 longer want to you know experience when listening to that type of content I mean like a lot of I feel like that type of content is how many of us were raised at least my household it was tough love so even when I first started um even creating content I very much delivered from like a tough I mean I think I still had enough empathy and compassion in my delivery but it was very much from this tough love mentality of what I was raised in when you started doing some therapy and you start healing some stuff and it's like don't don't talk to me I don't want to be talked to like that and talked at like that that um and I I don't know I'm just glad that that's something that you're even noticing for yourself and I think it is a very effective marketing uh approach especially depending on the caliber of client that you're looking to attract but people the height the awareness is high people already know kind of like

10:46 you don't keep breeding and amplifying somebody's insecurities what's the difference between a therapist and a coach uh one like can I think well some therapists can prescribe drugs they can you know like label in name and diagnose um I think there's a very fine line when I think therapy is more retrospective um depend I mean I'm generalizing this a little bit depending on the type of therapist you work with um and really unpacking um that's interesting like what caused that where is that rooted from is that our mother wound that we're dealing with is that attached to you know um you know is that trauma just kind of built up in your body that you're that now is being expressed versus I feel like coaching is very much more like forward focused that's so good and let's move view forward versus um

11:31 let's unpack the past I mean I think there's still some unpacking but you know I that's kind of like the line there and um you know I think when when it gets too you know too dark too de I me we we touch on stuff in coaching but I'm like I I think there's a very fine line between like you know you can't come in and diagnose or label or it can get touchy but that's kind of how I look at it yeah no I love it you mentioned because I I have have I have so many ways to go but I just want to make sure this is methodical for The Listener I like to I like to make the conversations kind of like master classes and if if if it's too much all over the place and so I'm just trying to think like like you're listening to this or

12:18 watching this because you feel like you're you can you know start coaching people you started with a group coaching program yeah that my very first it was like a cohort of six people cohort can you just F cuz some people don't even know what a cohort is yeah cohort is just you know it's six people they all start on the same date they all end on the same date um very similar to like if you were to sign up for a class at college or a class at school we're all starting at the exact same time there's a group of people um so that was like the first like touch I got into it yeah and then um after a while of doing that I was like okay are you going to treat this like an actual business or is this just like fun money yeah um I was like let me actually try to like treat it like a legitimate business and I was like okay what's a more advanc problem that you could solve so you can actually charge you know a couple thousand dollars per client how did you justify

13:04 that original price when you first started um I mean I I thought the 180 or the 3 thou the the 180 180 bucks for the 90 days there was no justification I mean somebody literally sent me a DM after watching one of my live streams on Facebook and this I didn't know this was like a potential thing to do and somebody like well can you just like coach me yeah and I'm like I have no idea I don't know I think I might have like actually went through and calculated what my my hourly rate was for my salary and maybe just like added a little bit more so I think that's I don't even know I might have done something like that back then there was absolutely no justification like mine like when I first did mine it was like a year I'll meet with you a weekly on Zoom group for $2,000 yeah how did you justify it I

13:50 don't know I actually was afraid to charge more like I I I think I wanted to charge five or but literally I got two people to pay me the five and I refunded them because I didn't feel yeah there's a little bit of I don't know a little bit of that going on yeah that distance there yeah no I don't know if I like calculated my hourly rate or just looked at like what's my water bill and my light bill and what would it be like to cover that like I don't it was there was no so you just put it out there though that like hey if you want and I mean because like I think there's a a huge important correlation between like the personal brand that you're building and like you're you're really good on messaging and I want to unpack that and just like being a content creator like how important is it to create content as a coach I mean I think it's in I think that in today's day and

14:36 age like having a personal brand is a non-negotiable I mean even if you're working in corporate like a lot of some of my clients that are still doing Executive coaching and helping people um get jobs in corporate like some of these companies now part of their hiring decision-making criteria is like what is your digital presence because if you're going to be in a VP or a higher level role where you're going to be outs speaking and whatever like your brand is part of what we're paying you for yeah um and I feel like that's just I don't I feel like it's a it's a it gives you a competitive Advantage because one most people in corporate most people in general are not going to take the time to do it so you putting a little bit of extra effort in it it's going to make you stand out like when people are considering you or even when I get referrals now like they're going to Google me yep and it's like if they're

15:22 picking me over somebody else it's like what is influencing them while they're making their buying decision I want something to be versus them just making that decision like aimlessly on their own so I feel like it's a non-negotiable and it I I think it's a non-negotiable and there's really no reason not to do it in today's day and age good a little bit tactical in the sense like you because people should let's just say we're giving like kind of a framework like let's just come up with a cohort how long do you want to deliver for a certain group of people or certain amount of people did you just put that on social media and send out a couple emails and like oh no no no no this is back before I even really felt like I had like a digital brain I mean like I was making live streams during my lunch breaks on Facebook wow like answering questions that people had or just like sharing what I was going through but

16:08 like my first six clients um came by way of like personal relationships like they knew like they might have follow me on Facebook and I think that we underestimate that like your first few clients are going to probably be people that know you or like are one degree away from you so I was in like um another leadership cohort for like political action committees or something to of the clients came from that um one of the clients was my cousin one of the clients was the girl that did my hair um and like so they they like watched my content on Facebook but they had some sort of personal connection to me y um and I think that we just underestimate that I me I'm not sitting here saying go start you know hosting Tupperware parties and like pitching all your family members because they may or may not be ideal clients right but there's

16:54 probably a like I think that follow the path of where you had the least resistance and pay attention to what people are naturally coming and asking you for it's good no need to manufacture a problem to solve solve the problem that people are kind of already have uh associated with you and already you already have a perception around so that's like how I got my first six and really like dipp my toe into the space and what was your main objective in the in that cohort see if this is like a real thing like I think the concept of like people paying me for coaching did not feel like legitimate like that felt very like abstract I was like let me

17:40 just see what happens like there was no real I got to pay bill like it was just like just to see it was just it was like an experiment to me I'm an engineer by trade it was like let's just see how this goes can I help some people can they like help somebody cuz I loved like being able to help people do that anyways people would come to my house we'd whiteboard like I was the friend that you would do that with yeah um so the the only objective was like let's just see what happens yeah and like will people actually just pay me to spend time with me and tell them the stuff that I'm already like reading and doing on my own dope yeah no I love that I just want like I feel like you're giving people the permission to start just to see like that's it and what's cool about cohort like the thing about me is I like I committed a year to a that's a long Comm 55 people um and but you had an

18:30 audience I did I feel like that like your Dynamic and I think even still um when if you have an existing audience that you're selling too I feel like you guys have an interesting dynamic as well because there's always I feel like you already have like this maybe let me know if this is actually true for you of like some level of pressure because people already have an existing perception of you because of like 100 yeah like they you're Omar right you know like they know you they've seen you online but like what I'm going through right now is is something I feel challenged with is is messaging because you know my audience is a although it's a probably you could say decently sized and it's they're I'm known for the Fairly right thing yeah the the there's just a lot of people that are just starting starting

19:16 from 000000 Z or like the idea of content creation is is like what you know I'm going to create content and one day make money and then I have the entrepreneur who had something to sell and they're like if I can just have more exposure it's game over yeah and so you know that's what I'm you're in like in a contextual Nuance transition right now 100 and um fun times though no it is but could you help because you are really good at dialing messaging like and I think something to consider is if you're trying to sell a program or you're trying to sell something and the market responds usually go back to the messaging would you would you like or doesn't respond like like I don't know why people aren't like I think messaging is like the forever undercurrent um messaging

20:02 and perceived value I mean p uh perceived risk like I think that when you were selling anything and especially right now this there's always es and flows in the economy um if you understand well I I understand macroeconomics at like a golden retriever level okay but like that word macroeconomics is Doberman level I'm just saying like my ability Artic never heard those words put together but okay but when you think about it's just like where is the buyer sentiment and I feel like you can feel that just by like talking to your family at home and your grandma at home like like where where is people's perception of their spending dollar right now preco and like during covid even though we were going through a global pandemic world was shut down the government was sending out checks

20:48 okay when I was back home in Detroit they were at Somerset Mall there was a line wrapped out and down the street in front of Gucci Louis Vuitton MCM like people even though the world was in a crisis there was still like this I have disposable income and I'm about to ball out yeah um and when you and how that impacted our online space is that there was a lot of Hope of like I can one I'm rethinking my career I'm at home right now um if you're selling during that time like that like you had everybody's attention like there was this this General consensus of there's possibility I want to spend my money and I want to see what's available yeah that's a very different Market to sell in than what we are in right now and we are in a market right now where people are more very

21:34 Discerning you know and they've already maybe probably been burned or oh 100% that's like that's like a yes 100% like they're no they are not maybe as naive yeah um they're way more Discerning it's not to say that they're not spending money but they're not spending it as aimlessly as they were during like that four or five year period right and that's like that cycle happens over and over again um and I think we're just on the the the other side of that cycle right now and when you are dealing with that where it's like people are thinking about why is my avocado 3.99 which is ridiculous you know and and then when I think about okay that's the that is the default mentality of the majority of my buyers right now so let me just like categorize that then the other thing is

22:19 what at what sophistication level and really like what um income bracket level do you want to be selling your services to like who who is your ideal your most qualified lead can you talk to the person that's like everyone yeah I that's the reason why I say that and I'm trying to articulate this as best I can like there's this larger overarching like how do people feel about their money right now are they closing their money tight they're more Discerning or they kind of loose witted and and free flowing we're in like the kind of tight eror right now the second thing is like what is the the sophistication of buyer I want to be selling to I'm be selling you the exact same thing I might have two products they both could be for you but if one is priced at $50 and I'm like

23:05 hey I'm going to teach you how to sell in stories it's 50 bucks the barrier to entry and the perceived risk that you have associated with that might be low enough where even if it's not like a super specific problem it's like oh how do I feel about just like throwing out $50 cool it's an impulse purchase yeah versus maybe if you're selling something for 5,000 and it's for a a two month coaching program or whatever you know the same person is going to use a different type of discernment when making both of those decisions the $50 one it might be an impulse purchase whatever I've been thinking about wanting to sell more my story is cool I'm going just buy it even if I never open it I'm not going to sweat it five grand I'm G to sit down I'm GNA really look is this actually solving a problem that I have right now um is the

23:51 contextual Nuance there for what it is that I actually want so even though you might like I could sell both off offers to you but when it comes to a messaging and how you position yourself you really need to think about what is the perceived risk that your ideal client is processing through when they are making a buying decision as it relates to the offer that you're putting in front of them so it's not like oh I sell to everybody I want you to like I feel like that's a very like Elementary digital marketing like thing that gets taught of like in our space but I don't there's not enough people that are like okay screw what who you could sell to yeah I want you to think about from a marketer standpoint from a messaging standpoint what is the level of discernment um in

24:39 your buyer that you want to be marketing to and that really depends on like the sophistication of the problem that you're solving the specificity of the problem that you're solving the contextual Nuance of the problem that you're solving all those factors is what will influence like how much you'll be able to get paid and um the caliber of client you're going to have to be consistently like creating content for right is that no it's so good and and I think there's like cuz I have I have context on everything you're saying because I've been now two years in yeah um I I want to highlight the fact that you said if you're selling something for 5,000 somebody is like really think you're getting somebody's attention yes which you just said if somebody buys the $50 thing it's an impulse purchase there imp impulse purchase they might not even

25:25 look or open up the thing which is not going to even help your cost to even sell it in the future which I think is just like something to consider because it's like one reason to charge you know a decent amount based on what whatever problem you're solving is so that you can get the attention of the people 100% I think what you're saying is like spoton and I think that just when you as a business owner I feel like you don't I'm definitely speaking at like a I think like a master's degree level right now um because I feel like what I'm talking about and making this decision if you can make it early on great um but Norm like you said you've been in two years like I feel like it's difficult to know what type of business model you want to be known for until you're probably making a 100 to $300,000 like first thing you need to do is just like fig like learn how to sell yeah which I

26:12 was like there's so much of what you're talking about like listening and like understanding like it's sales yeah 100% so right now we're like okay you want to start a coaching program or you want to start coaching okay you you need I hope you don't feel overwhelmed but you need to consider your brand and create content you need to be a content creator yes you need to put out stuff why I want to say that we are coaches who create content coaches who Crea content versus cuz I [ __ ] when you say content creator like they start acting like influencers and do it's a hot mess and then but then you got to grow in sales you're that's the first skill set you need to figure out if I was investing in anything in the very beginning it would just be sales psychology understanding what is influence what is influencing how somebody's making a buying decision like

26:59 understanding people's perception and what they perceive as as risk and what doesn't feel like a risk if you can understand that and close somebody your business model might be all overse yes 100% that's the first skill you really need to nail yeah and and and and like something about like charging too I've learned is I have felt the permission to charge more when I started becoming a premium person yeah you know like what that look what did you mean by that though like like I I I paid I joined a a mastermind for $55,000 and you start walking a little different baby you walking down the street going into uh Chick-fil-A like they don't know how much I just dropped on myself yeah

27:45 and and yes it it made me become somebody a different person in that regard and then I also got front row access to what a $55,000 thing looked like yeah so then I'm like oh I was overthinking this part and this part and this part uh so I mean I I mean cuz I'm big on like if you're a coach you should be Co being you should you should be coached like don't don't follow a coach who isn't coach isn't coachable or being coach and um but like being able to charge more the confidence to even charge because if in sales if you if you say the price and your tone changes like something's off you you've broke uh it's sales is just a trans transference of trust yes if you don't trust in what

28:30 you're selling and if you don't trust in the number that's coming out of your mouth like they're going to feel that and I think that when you know if you don't have proximity to maybe those like those wealthy moments um I'm like start go out and start doing that like go to the fancy Mall in your town and just like go in to you know the Jimmy chew or go into the Sachs like go into the stores and just like be in the essence of notice how you feel when you're in those stores um allow them to give you the the complimentary perer you know like get the AMX car just so you can go to the lounge and like just just expose yourself to it if that's without realm like find the richest neighborhood in your in your area and go to an open

29:15 house so good like just see like you will notice like what you might wear how you might dress differently for that experience like notice yourself shift into the identity of being that person but I feel like exposure is really good in that regard um and if you need to build your confence like do what you got to do put your red lip on get your earrings like put your lingerie on like do what you need to do to well I'm speaking to ladies on that one but whatever you need to do to kind of like activate that sense of self yeah um in whatever way you need to because it matters so much in sales yeah and and I hate I hate to cuz sometimes it can become a superficial part oh for sure because obviously there is people that people be out here doing it for the gram hard but no I mean I I bought I bought an

30:01 Audie two years ago and I've always driven a paid off Toyota period okay period and and then you know I bought my first watch and just something about this click every morning it does something it do I feel you on that it does something but then again putting your self exposure therapy I love that because I mean the amount of conversations I've had around things that because I put myself I don't know just it it yeah the exposure part and and I think there's something to say that you have the choice to be the premium version of something yeah or be the Walmart version of something I love what you said it's a choice and I think that that needs to be a conscious decision if you are a business owner whether you're selling coaching Services Consulting products it doesn't matter

30:48 like I think product-based businesses do a better job of understanding this because they're like where on what shelves do I want to be on and it's kind of like I think it's more naturally grain for them to for them to think about like where in the the bracket do I want to be positioned I feel like us as personal Brands many people don't really consciously think about that choice um until much later on and I think it's it is a choice like you can be the Amy Porter fields and like the Julie Solomons and the brook castillos where it is high volume and that is like firsttime purchaser business model right that is you can make millions doing that um you also can make millions being like you know um the the opposite the flip side of that where you're primarily

31:34 selling a more premium priced offer but you're selling to a much lower volume and I think the everyday person like I think like the regular girl from Detroit like me like I feel like there's so much more money to be made as it relates to what most of us truly truly want like most of us are doing this for a lifestyle upgrade yeah um we're doing this to be able to like the owner's intent of the business is not necessarily to like hand it down to the the kid or to have a traditional exit if you're not having a traditional exit and you're not intentionally trying to build a legacy brand where like three generations from now are still going to be running this business yeah it's like hyper keyman risk yeah and we're okay with that yeah but but just like that is a I think that enough of us more of us don't just claim that like you're doing

32:20 it for the money right like you're doing it so that you can take home as much profit as possible so that you can move your family to a new zip code send your kids to the certain School upgrade to the Audi get your cardier and your Rolex on have all the time in the world with your kids all the time in the world exactly like you're doing it for spaciousness and you're doing it for your net worth M um and I think that that needs to be a conscious choice because if you are trying to play operationally and marketing and selling the game of I want to have a traditional exit and have some VC or private Equity or some other family to buy my business you're going to run the business totally differently than if I'm doing this so that I can pick my kids up from school from soccer every day um I can you know be there and have like slow mornings with my my baby at home and so that I

33:07 can like live the lifestyle I want because it's a profit driven business model versus a making my making the big money once I sell business model right and I think that that needs to be a very conscious Choice like what is your owner's intent yeah and then play the model that aligns with what it is that you want but it's important to name it because otherwise especially in the online space you'll You'll Lose Yourself very very fast and what I see happen a lot with clients is that they're like oh I'm trying to play the mass volume model but really what they want is like they want the spaciousness and they want the money model yeah you can make money in both but it takes different time and right operates differently the profit margins are different and then they like look up one day and it's like why do I want to burn down the business that I've created I hate this thing that I've

33:52 created it's because like you never made the choice like you just did what you thought you should do or you did what everyone else was the your perception of what perception exactly what everybody else was doing so I'm glad that you bring that up as choice because it is a choice like where do you want to play in the marketplace yeah and I have actually because because I I I I built a lot of my presence on think media yeah I didn't know how important word choice was and it was cool that I got exposure and that people learned from me I I I think at a at a surface level uh place to build a value based brand where people think about you they think they like they get so much insight and then you know they love your content because it's super helpful it's kind of why you even reached out once you found me right but and you solved a very specific problem

34:38 that I was trying to figure out too and you were just like dope and I'm like he he seems cool like he actually seems like somebody I would want to like kick it with yeah I found though the think media was very that like you know 93% off this YouTube bundle the the uh cheap what cheap was in intertwined a lot of the word free I've removed that from my vocabulary when it comes to marketing because even if I'm doing something for free I don't want you to jump at the opportunity because it's free 100% so if I'm doing a workshop or a web class or whatever I'm hey I'm doing this call I'm doing this webinar um I want you to figure out it's free once you jump into something but you moved because of the messaging or the value you saw um but it's just so

35:25 important I and I know this could be a lot to take in and this is why people actually consume the podcast multiple times because it's like this part they really like hitting and then they come back that's what's cool about podc podcasting about you can listen to an episode as a different person yeah and and get another Insight get more insight out of it I know just for whatever it's worth okay that was a lot this is good though oneon-one versus group oneon-one is where I started making and when I did the 180 $100 $180 for the three Monon situation where I sold my first like $3,500 package was Private one-on-one and I mean do you want me just to go through the Journey yeah okay I mean I I I prescribe people who want

36:11 to get into it I think it is you can go both ways I like doing the one-on-one because you're you know do it for the discovery and for learning because because the best type of group coaching programs you should come with a uh a very educated Assumption of the people you help 100% And that comes from helping a lot of people for a little bit I think one on one you know I double tap and cosign that a th% like I think that when you one thing that I noticed with myself is that there's a lot of unconscious confidence about what you have it's like you people like oh how are you doing this you're like girl I don't know I just wake up and decide to do it one day and it's like like no there is a process that your brain is going through but you do not have a

36:57 conscious level of what your competence is and working with oneon-one really allows you to like slow down um because you're in close proximity with another individual they're asking you very specific questions you're able to notice the patterns of what this individual needs and the process in which they're asking for it so you're like oh I was giving them step seven and because of my unawareness I totally forgot about step one and two I just assumed they knew that like I need to connect all of those dots for them right so when people start transitioning into more of a premium you know price or uh just on the higher end of whatever their industry or Market is I agree I think I always recommend they start do a handful of private one-on-one because one it's Al like you're going to be able to help them obviously get get tremendous value but two you're going to

37:43 learn the messaging you're going to learn like they're going to be able to they're going to share things with you about their beliefs their insecurities all of that they may not stay in a group call right so it's like perfect market research for you as well but I agree I think like do the first like five to 10 private one-on-one um and also build your own sense of self-confidence and like charging more being able to confidently say that like you working out your own Kinks too around like what your sales process is and what your actual delivery process is because when you get a group of people like we've all been in class where we had a terrible teacher yeah they just show up and it's like oh read this book and then the next day like what they're testing you on isn't even what they told you to study like that's what group programs can go wrong when you don't have a methodical process that you're trying to actually

38:28 guide this group of people through so when you work with oneon-one you can start to notice the patterns and those patterns become the process that you guide in you know you guide your groups through once it is once you are in a cohort format you need to develop the curriculum it's a really good you got I think three PS in that you said the pattern was the second one um the problem and then identify the pattern M that will lead them to the promised land 100% there you go something you do really really really really really well and I think something you've your your content strategy is is just very live very unedited yeah very Demir um but yeah what and I find it fascinating because you unlock so much

39:16 because if you have the right me messaging and I think live streaming or very unedited versions of you talking I mean the conversion goes crazy and you're not even big on sales calls no yeah like I mean I started on sales calls but like now I I you closed so much people in the DMs I closed pretty much 100% in the DM okay let's just go kind of like one two three let's start with like your live stream or content kind of framework yeah so that was the game that that's how I started you know and the reason why I started with live is because I didn't know how to create content like I don't know how I didn't know how to edit I didn't know how to like what cameras like that was like foreign to me um and again like the engineer brand of me just like start with the the minimum viable product you have an iPhone you have the internet you

40:03 have Instagram you have Facebook like to start with a lease barrier of Entry where you don't have to buy anything you already got this stuff and just like use what you have um so that's why I started with live streaming that felt very more natural to me I'm like I don't know how to copyright I don't know how to like Market how these people are saying you're supposed to Market I know how to talk like I know if I can talk for at least 15 20 minutes I may not be like super strugg Str but if you listen to me long enough I'll be able to get the point across and be able to understand what it is that you need and be able to connect those dots yeah so I mean like that's how I made like my first million was off of live streams primarily um and live video was very much the core of my content strategy um and I think too like even though people like oh like I'm not going to go viral on live or like I'm not getting a ton of reach on live like

40:50 that's not the point right um because again you're not an influencer you're not building a I mean I was not building a large volume model like I needed like 10 people to say yes at three grand or I needed six people to say yes at 15,000 like I don't need hundreds of people every single month to say yes to me good so if I have a live stream and 20 people are on but four of those people are qualified leads they're going to turn into $10,000 clients that was a $40,000 live stream like ball ball I'm good I'm winning yeah so I just did what was easiest for me um and it just I'm like and it's live so I'm like nobody's going to have this expect for it to feel like Good Morning America I don't need to be like hair laid makeup beat like it's a live video it's like a FaceTime so I can

41:37 I can do I can commit to that every day yeah like and I think you by choosing that route it made you a better Communicator for sure because you gave yourself the permission to to know that this wasn't going to be edited exactly I got a roll through like let me say that again and like but that people don't realize something you just like as you're talking I'm realizing at the if you're selling something ex you know I don't like to use the word expensive but more High ticket yeah live has to happen at some point yes so either you create crazy content and then somebody's hopping on a live Zoom call with with a salesperson and a human to human you're just putting that part in the front end of things and therefore making the sales process later later to be less needed for you to be

42:23 live you articulate that so well cuz I think that like when you are buying again anything we're going back to we mentioned earlier of like a higher Discerning buyer like if you're when you bought that watch you probably went into the store I mean I don't know if you did or not yeah you get on the weit list you get yeah you get on the weight list like you know like when I bought my first home like you physically go to the house like when I bought now my Tesla was the only thing that was expensive that like I'm like this is wild I cannot believe I'm buying this online and just like having to go pick it up but they had a different Dynamic going on with like existing perception and like built Trust but anything pretty expensive that you've ever purchased there was some live component right and I think that like again knowing where you are in the marketplace and knowing what type of buyer you're dealing with like because honestly when you're dealing with a a

43:10 higher touch premium price lower volume it's a relationship based business model not a transactional based business model right so you're dealing human to human they know like yeah I can solve this problem my expertise and me being able to solve the problem is like cost of Entry but then from there they're picking the person you know cuz they could buy this problem from me or buy it from somebody else and it's like well who who do they feel uh most comfortable around or whose values feel more aligned whose identity they you know connect with yeah like that's what's going to put them over the edge so 100% like if and again I feel like live video you don't have to be perfect and I love how you articulated that because it just gave me permission to just you know stumble and figure it out without this pressure of like people are expecting me to look and move and be robotic

43:57 can you speak to I feel like there's a a potential limiting belief and that is well if I'm giving all of it away on the live or how do I distill the information and make sure cuz why would they buy if I'm giving it away can you speak to that kind of yeah I mean like in the beginning don't hold back I mean like I want you to treat your content like church when you go to church every Sunday or on Wednesday or whenever you go that the preacher up there is not like M ah let me like try to pull back and not like you know share the love of Christ like you know like I think that there is a lot to be learned I've never heard that in the you need to make that a thing it's true it's true yeah they the they're not holding back God like

44:42 and even if you're not religious study if if if they can if the religion of Christianity or whatever the religion is can get millions billions of people to come to church every single Sunday and get them to believe in the concept of God like I feel like church in Rel like that is the best one of the best places to learn messaging in sales and not saying it from like a manipulative like yeah you I actually was told because I I preached before I was coaching oh yeah you you've been meant for this yeah and somebody was like you're already selling like you you're making it your problem aware solution aware every single day like the whole thing you do the whole shebang in one sermon yeah and I mean I mean think about that like you're dealing and then they go back out into the world the enemy comes into to try to destroy and distract and they show back

45:28 up and you got to like start the process not over again but kind of over again and I'm like like that is how I think about my content my content is my church I want you to come here and get your milk I want you to get your meat I want you to feel a sense of like renewed Faith a sense of possibility a sense of restoration like I want you to have that because honestly when you're dealing with and selling to the type of there you go that's so funny okay I'm like okay hold on somebody up in here the spirit um you said cuz honestly that's what I remember I'm like but uh I don't even know no you come you

46:13 come to like your content is your church your content is your church and like don't in especially in the beginning like don't worry about like giving away too much like there's a lot of people who go to church who never end up serving in the community who never end up becoming preach a pastor or a preacher whatever but like so like I know that I've helped thousands of people through my free content who will never pay me right like that's that's good that's the like that that's what it should do yeah um my goal is just to get a small percentage of them and so I think that one that that's a mentality I would say that how can you make that relevant for you or make that make sense for you yeah um but the second piece is that I think as you start to mature in your understanding of marketing and develop your skill set and understanding messaging and positioning my content really is speaking at an identity level

47:01 of like let me teach people how to think versus me telling them how to do it yes and what is valuable to somebody who is a more Discerning it's valuable across the board but especially people who are on um I feel like a more sophisticated buyer and I say sophistication not because some people are dumb or some people are smart but in the sense of the impulse purchase versus the Discerning buyer yeah when I'm dealing with a more Discerning buyer um think about what they've view as value like a lot of what they view as value is is this person introducing a new perspective to help me think differently not just giving me like the Tactical thing to do right so that's really the goal of my content is just shift a perspect perspective introduce a new belief like get somebody thinking differently about something

47:46 they might have been convicted on and it's like and that that is real that's act like the the depth of influence that has to change a way a person thinks about a yes that's influence yes and that's like that's when people like oh my gosh your content is so valuable why it's not because I like gave you this here's how to like install the light bulb and now you were able to go do it it's like man I'm thinking totally differently about how I'm approaching this how I'm approaching my decision making and that's really the goal of my content is like how am I helping somebody navigate their own decision making around whatever it is that I'm talking about yeah I'm not giving them the the process of it until they they pay it's good it's kind of I mean I like what we before we hit record was I was telling you about Ruby turning six and I

48:33 have one more year to shape her view and like and that one way to influence is not to attack the action but to ask her why did she do that you know and and that'll probably stick more than me just being don't do that 100% because now she's going to be a more critical thinker yeah versus like daddy told me not to do it let me act out of fear right which you probably are you know maybe that's happening too like I a trying you know Daddy coming around hold on but like it's it's that critical thinking piece and that's really the goal of the content yeah and I think something else that I think about when it comes to the idea is people you're in the deep end and they're just dipping their toes 100% so to think that everyone's going to watch or consume every bit of

49:18 everything you put out like they're only going to get one thing actually from the three points that you brought if that if that they might just remember how you made them feel and it's like I don't know what just happened but that is so true and I mean like again going back to the church analogy like people still come back every single Sunday right and like how long have they been preaching the Bible yeah longer than we've been alive like a very long time so it's like 100% is true and it's like people are consuming so much on a daily basis you know you think like oh they watch the whole thing or like you said they know all my stuff and it's like even if they do even if theyve like people who hire me like they've been consuming me for years at this point now like I've listened to every episode on the podcast there's 250 episodes they like listen to everyone and they still hire me because

50:04 there is still a I want you to help me specifically do this thing and I don't want to have to PEC Mill your 250 episodes together and try to guess what the framework is I want it to me in the most simplest digestible way so that I'm not there's no guesswork anymore right that's really good okay no one goes on social media I like to say no one goes on social media looking to buy something yeah I agree with with that so how somebody buys your coaching has to be methodical yeah and can you speak about the importance of the environment that you create for people to buy me specifically I guess specifically and generally yeah so when I think about the sales environment like you just said like when somebody raises their hand like it I look at sales as like I'm just making invitations for somebody to take

50:51 the next step and my job in the sales process is not to get you to say yes it is just to help you make a decision that is it like that decision is no that decision is like man I thought my problem was what you saw but it's actually I need to do something else like that's my only job in sales is to help you make a decision and to make an give you an invitation to take the next step and I think that when I learn to approach sales that way it reduce this like frantic pressure of like oh which will influence how you sell oh yeah and in the whole dynamic just remove yourself from the outcome yep and just be okay when it's not the right fit yeah because that's because you don't want to be working with a not right fit client especially in a premium offer and usually for a longer time frame like

51:37 just for the money like it's all money ain't good money and you got to like learn that over time like what money is for you and what money is not um but that's like when I think about sales and that Dynamic I think I approach it from that lens and I have found if you have to drag them in you have to drag them around that's like you need to put that somewhere do something with that that's 100% true yeah um but when it comes to like my my online presence or like the ecosystem that I'm trying to create with sales I mean like like I do you want to talk about when I used to do calls or what would be more helpful I guess I actually think what's the most you've sold with DM sales I mean I think product wise not not overall but like the price of a product Oh probably the most exp like I

52:23 mean most expensive is probably like 75,000 75,000 through the DM through the DMs I mean like that is like a some so I okay so I want to talk about both but let's go Zoom bigger packages through DMs than I have through sales calls wow but I mean that that like came with time and came with like you know practice and came with uh you know there was already existing relationship and a lot of other things there but yeah but most people what really people can do is they talk about you can you can live stream yeah with a call to action to a cenly link that's the easiest way to do it that's the easiest way to do it and then on that call like how are we leading and structuring that I mean like I think that when my job again once somebody books that call is first thing that I'm trying to do is um how again there's a perceived risk that this

53:09 person is already walking into the call with that's good I'm trying to like how can I bring down their barrier of self- protection as much as possible in the very beginning um because especially in today's market like people are being sold to constantly there's a million ads every time you scroll across something they're heightened awareness of like person about to sell to me and I normally start my you know sales conversation or if I was on a sales call with really just like like Omar thank you so much for being here and for trusting yourself to even you know explore the opportunity of working together my job on this call right now is just to help you make a decision that is it so like I I try to do what I can to just like remove the barrier or dilute that

53:54 barrier normally I'm giving some form of gratitude ude for them and to them that's very genuine I'm like thank you for trusting me as even part of this decision Mak process and like my only job right now is to help you make a decision whatever that is like no pressure um and I think that that is like one thing there the other thing that I always do during sales conversations whether this is through DM or whether this is on a sales call is like I want to be able to effectively articulate what their problem is probably better than they articulated it to me or they know how to articulate it to me so like this is like you know I normally have people fill out applications at this stage or we're chatting via DM for me to like understand what their problem is like I want to make sure that do you even understand what their problem actually is because if you don't understand their problem but you are here trying to

54:40 confidently sell them a solution without that congruency one they will pick up on that or two they'll have like buyers remorse or regret once they get inside because they're like dang it like this wasn't what I needed this is not even what I needed and this person didn't even take the time to like understand whether or not it was what I needed when you're selling mass volume you don't really get the opportunity to do that uh as nuanced because it's just based off the your copy on your sales page or whatever um but also the stakes are lower when it's a lower ticket offer um so like those are like probably two of the biggest things that I try to do in a sales conversation is like unarmoured to intimacy as much as possible and then secondarily it's my job to be able to effectively articulate what their problem is and to ask the

55:26 questions if they're not cuz some people when they're dealing with an issue they a lot of the time don't know how to articulate what the issue is and you need to not not prove but you you do need to show them that you've been thinking about this more than they have yeah like imagine like even if you're going to like a car dealership and they're like oh like let me show you like the newest model of this and that and like they're like running off all these features that you do not care about you're like bro can I fit three car seats in this thing not like you know is there like a four settings of like heat and cooling on my seats like you're not even listening to me right and I feel like that makes people feel unheard it's like you don't you're not you don't really understand what my problem is like I don't want what it is that you're selling so I think like that is just again it establishes trust um it

56:12 does speak to credibility and I think it's like it's an ethical way of selling and I maybe ethical it's like it's in selling with an Integrity cuz I understand what your problem is so I have confidence knowing that the solution that I present to you is the right one and if it's not you know me talking to you and figuring out like actually you need something else like I feel a lot better being able to just refer you to somebody else if I know or say hey I'm not a good fit y usually whenever I do that though they want to hire me more and I'm like no like legit I'm not like there's something about not yeah not feeling thirsty for the sale and they were like actually like maybe I need to like maybe my my problem's something different yeah and it's like no you know I really think that like go do this and like Implement that and then like it you know see what happens and maybe come back but those are really the

56:57 two things that I'm trying to do any sales conversation regardless of the medium in which the conversation is taking place fire and then so we talked about content and marketing we talked about sales now it's like they're in and fulfillment yeah and I want to get to like the power of testimonials too because people don't think about this but like if you're you're starting a coaching thing you need to know when somebody gets a win and you need document this so you don't have to sell as hard later you know yeah but you said know when somebody gets a win is like the money because a lot of the time people are selling hey I do coaching they're selling the features you get 12 calls you get me for a year you get access to all of my stuff like that is a very like

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