Casting the Avengers with Marvel Studios' Sarah Halley Finn!

0:00 [Music] today on the official Marvel podcast we're chatting with legendary casting director Sarah Haley Finn about casting the Marvel Cinematic Universe I didn't certainly didn't think after graduating from Yale and going to do theater off Broadway in New York I would be uh working with Marvel and creating superheroes plus Marvel digital design lead an Marie Lombardo shares What's happen happening in the world of Marvel unlimited there's always new comics and on top of that there are exclusive Comics that aren't even available you know anywhere else and we are diving into the comic book history of Marvel

0:46 baddy the leader AKA Samuel Sterns I'm pry chiber I'm Langston Belton and this is the official Marvel podcast [Music] Sarah Haley Finn you know her as the casting genius behind most of your favorite MCU shows and movies but she didn't start her career in the Marvel sandbox in fact her Casting Journey started in theater and through that process I started producing theater a little bit because I was working with playwrights and we thought all right I don't just have to act in this let's get that play up there and then I started

1:33 assistant directing and I also learned other aspects of production and I think that oriented me really well to be part of a collaborative team which casting is very very collaborative and then a woman that I was working with assistant directing uh was casting director and and her name is Risa bramman Garcia and she offered me my first job I was always running around and doing temp jobs to make money and pay my rent and she said just cast this movie with me and even though I knew what casting was from acting perspective and from the outside I had never fully seen it and so I started this job and basically about three years went by and I never looked up I just um I was so fascinated with how each piece comes together how one ingredient can completely change the

2:22 whole ensemble and how it works how do you put this together piece by piece how do you create a whole ensemble and so I found it really fascinating and and I started with that and really just kept going I don't know I certainly didn't think after graduating from Yale and going to do theater off Broadway in New York I would be uh working with Marvel and creating superheroes but they're uh it's been a very fun playground to play in and and and really there these are Big stories and big myths and and the amazing opportunities for actors to stretch and play Sarah's resume includes iconic projects like Marvel Studios Iron Man Thor Captain America the First Avenger and of course the Avengers here's Sarah on what she remembers most about assembling Our Heroes for the

3:10 first time in The Avengers honestly it's a little bit hard for me to talk about it from an outside perspective because I'm so very close to it but what I really remember when we were casting it is that our Focus was very singular it really was entirely about who is the best person to bring this character to life and then once we got the main character how do we best surround them you know so when you have somebody that's newer on the scene like a Chris Hemsworth could we get an Anthony Hopkins could we get like how do we then build the Ensemble if it's Chris Pratt and he's known more for comedy what if we bring in Zoe who's really we know is gonna um up the antie for him and make it challenging so but with every

3:57 character I was always casting one movie at a time so I was never really casting Avengers that all was able to happen magically and I do think it's a testament to the caliber of actors to the writing to the directing to the vision that Kevin and had throughout and and really also probably benefited from the time that we had to live with these characters and get to know them and the stories that were being told and the way they all were growing with us but when they did first come together in The Avengers the reaction to that film was electrifying I think for all of us and honestly humbling I remember lisis TS bazito saying after the Avengers opened

4:42 he said it's not like people were walking around high-fiving each other he said they had tears in their eyes we just sort of couldn't believe it but we had all worked so hard and cared so much and I think that was true for every aspect of production and and I think that that level of passion and commitment and hard work came through with a career as legendary as Sarah's it's no surprise that she's had some standout highlights two of the biggest being casting Robert Downey Jr as Iron Man and Samuel L Jackson as Nick Fury well with RDJ it's a famous story now that he was asked to screen test uh and it's maybe not that we didn't have a good sense that he would be a great fit for Tony Stark but

5:30 I think that he ruled out any possible conversation that he wasn't Tony Stark I think it was so undeniable he owned that character he brought it to life it was his he was it felt like there was no one else that could possibly play that part so I think we we knew it we had an instinct but his willingness to actually do a screen test was quite remarkable and he was more than game and um and also his enthusiasm for the role I would say that's another secret maybe of casting is that it only works when the actor genuinely wants to play the role and I think that he genuinely did he was all in and so the rest is history and Samuel L Jackson is Samuel Al

6:18 Jackson so that was exciting and at the time I think quite uh again uh surprising to people because it was the first time that many options had been considered and requested and that became public somehow and so I think it was already a new bold idea that they were putting into place some other casting moments though are truly Unforgettable for Sarah like pal clementi's audition from mantis and Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 2 and Chadwick boseman's commitment to tala one that stands out to me was Palm Clementi off's audition for mantis she didn't have a lot of information to go on uh I should dig up her original audition because it would be fun to see

7:05 again it was so out of this world wild that we all we didn't even know what to make of it and again I don't think she had any idea what the character would look like or how that character would speak but she had such a crisp and unique and original and energetic take on it that I remember James gun immediately was very Blown Away by her and what she was doing and and of course she ended up Landing the part another one that's stands out which maybe was a little bit of a different process but black panther I remember when we cast Chadwick that he really wanted to have an African accent and he that was really important to him and I think that there was a lot of conversation around that at the time would that be acceptable to

7:50 audiences would that make you know would would that work for the character uh but he felt so strongly about it and I think kind of teeing off John Connie a South African actor who is speaking Co I think that that influenced Chadwick and that ended up becoming uh the foundation for the language of wakanda that they were developing and it's really a beautiful story because ultimately Ryan and Kevin and everyone got on board with his vision and it became so much a part of the fabric of the film and I think brought help bring wakanda to life and and really ultimately I think influenced the culture I remember when we were first doing black panther looking for younger versions We had hard time finding young kids that could mimic that accent and

8:36 then only a few years later when we were casting what if and we needed to have young tala we were flooded with auditions in perfect accents and it was really beautiful to see how much the melody and the music of this accent was now in our culture because of that one decision that Chad felt very strongly about and I think even furthermore I think it influenced Ryan to come on board and direct black panther when he saw an early cut of Civil War and and understood the potential of bringing wakonda to life because of that what's Wild is how much of an MCU actor's real life personality can shine through their on-screen character according to Sarah that's no coincidence I think that

9:23 certainly there's essential qualities that they bring to the roles that matter that are in the shared existence the shared life of them and the character they are acting they are all really good actors and I take it honestly as a huge compliment because I feel like then I hopefully have done my job well but I think of course there's going to be commonalities Downey's wit his intelligence his his Pace his um his curiosity that is part of who he is and and with Chris Evans in a way it was his very reluctance to play Captain America that made us want him all the more he he

10:11 has a humility he has a quiet strength to him and and yes he can play a villain and yes he can play all these other characters but I think that there was something that really Drew us to him for that part and it was that ironic that he wasn't sure if he was going to take on the role um so all of these played in I mean with Chadwick bosan as black panther certainly I think we can't talk about him without understanding his immense Humanity dignity and and spirit so yes there are many qualities and essential qualities I think we can see in them but I do think at the end of the day they're tremendous actors now if you're asking yourself okay so what does it take to land a gig as a Marvel Superhero well Sarah has some advice for

10:58 you a be prepared be prepared keep it up as an actor it's really important to continue to hone your craft have a support system have classes if you're an athlete you're going to train every day if you're a painter or musician you're going to play every day or paint every day as an actor you have to have the same diligence and really stick with it keep growing keep developing your craft so that when that opportunity comes you can seize on it and you're ready I also would say stay open because we'll get the same we have a lot of actors say I really want to play I'm not even going to name the character because then everybody's going to be talking about whether we're casting for this character I want to play ex character and what I would say is I don't always know ahead of time what we're going to be casting but we might not be casting ex- character we might not be casting that

11:44 one for five years or more or 10 years or ever maybe we are but I would say to an actor maybe don't be too set on one particular role stay open because even the famous stories of like Tom Heston audition for Thor and he ended up being the most perfect low key I could ever imagine so even as an actor you might think I really want to play this part but there could come to be another opportunity earlier or at a different time than you think so so stay flexible oh and I guess the Practical advice is also put yourself out there if you are sitting at home and I don't know where to find you that's not good make sure you're on IMDb you're listed and even though we are not able

12:31 to to have superhero abilities and pop all over the world at any time we do and I have an most amazing team I think I could ever imagine uh we research constantly we read constantly we see as much as we can but when we're not able to go to Toronto we're reading about every review when we're not able to go to Williamstown theater Festival our actor theater of Louisville we are reading what's happening there in the summer we're covering New York theater La theater London theater Chicago theater so if you're an actor make sure that you're visible and you're putting your work out there and even now there's Tik Tok there's Instagram there's YouTube there's so many outlets so that would be the other piece of more concrete advice I could give it also turns out that the visual development team doesn't just make your favorite

13:17 characters look cool on screen they can also help influence casting choices there are times when we're considering someone and people may or may not be sure and we'll ask the art Department to do a mockup and and that can be very telling and very informative about how they're actually going to look in the costume how it might fit what they might design around them but there have also been times when those pieces of artwork have convinced an actor to sign up because we'll send it to them and they're like I look cool and that actually can also help convince actors because they're not given scripts this is not really a traditional process right where we're sharing scripts and information many actors are not given scripts until

14:04 they're already cast sometimes we'll take them from the script Agatha we did take pages from the script and then we'll just take out any spoilers but for example when we first started casting Spider-Man um we saw thousands of people for that early search I think the first sides we used were from Weird Science like we'll just pull I've pulled stuff from old plays we'll pull stuff from movies a lot of times what we'll do is go through and come up with a bunch of ideas on our own and then share with the director and say what would you like um working with Destin on shangi he had the idea to use Goodwill Hunting which ended up being a genius scene because it gave us a lot of the same emotional beats without giving away spoilers from the script so we were able to kind of

14:49 get to know our actors and what their qualities were and how they worked uh what their range was without actually using the script once a casting Choice has been made Sarah says that seeing an actor return for another MCU project is one of the most rewarding aspects of her job honestly I am like a proud mom it brings me a lot of Joy it feels really rewarding to know that they have this um not only unending Talent where they can continue to shine in different ways and show different different skills and parts of themselves but that they have this songo connection with the audience because that's also really a big part of it that's really an intangible on casting is trying to imagine who is going to connect and so I think when there's a desire to bring

15:35 them back again over and over I think that that um really speaks volumes and even with at Deadpool I saw Kevin and and I we were talking about Roger mendin who first cast H Jackman in 2000 you know like what an incredible Instinct and then to think about how long he's been able to continue with this character it's been amazing I guess that's another quick moment it's been truly amazing when I say we've always really been focused on the task at hand I am so focused you know still on like what's coming next but to sometimes get to just exhale and look back and realize it's been an enormous privilege for me not every casting director gets to stay with a story throughout the franchise and so for me it really has been an

16:20 incredible honor and privilege to be with these stories and with these characters for more than 15 years now it's it's a long time that all said Sarah is not shy about admitting that the the job does come with its fair share of challenges honestly almost every one of them because I think the pressure is enormous to get it right so even with a part that would seem on the surface like of course Scarlett Johansson played that part it it was actually it's always been a process every role has been a process but I can think of a few that were particularly challenging and I think that that Star-Lord was hard to cast

17:05 because we hadn't had a Space Opera so to speak we hadn't had a um a film like that we hadn't had anything that was as comedic as Guardians people were a little unclear about what that might that might look like again we weren't giving out scripts and two of the main characters were a raccoon and a tree so yeah so that I remember being a very long road we had several screen tests it was really a long search and a hard search I think we landed it I think we ended up exactly where we should have and I do think that Guardians really open the door to a whole new realm of Storytelling at Marvel however after a

17:50 decade plus of casting the MCU there's one thing that Sarah is most proud of when I meet people whose lives have been positively affected by the stories I remember during the pandemic I got letters and calls from people saying I went home to be with my parents and we ended up watching the whole Marvel franchise together and it really brought us closer or when I meet young people and they tell me that some of these characters have really helped shape their lives that is beyond anything I could have ever imagined getting to be a part of [Music]

18:36 so pry could you imagine walking around just acting normal knowing that you helped assemble the cast for Marvel Studios The Avengers oh absolutely not you would see it on my face everyone would know everyone in the world would know everyone everywhere would know in my coffee shop not just my Barista every Patron I would tell everyone yeah I'd grab people on the street and tell and Whisper to them I I mean my cat wouldn't would tell me to shut up she wouldn't even be safe from the secrets I mean at least like the cat couldn't tell the secrets because the cat can't talk well I don't know well clearly you haven't spend time with my cat does that Cat know we're talking about her mhm was that your cat taking credit for casting Chris

19:23 Hemsworth yes I believe so that would explain all the very specific gift baskets I've been receiving okay she off you go so you you heard Sarah Haley fin share her experience casting the MCU well you're about to get another Peak behind the curtain from someone else in the Marvel family I was joined by Marvel digital design lead and Marie Lombardo to discuss the Marvel unlimited app her most memorable Pinch Me moment at work and more I am joined by digital design lead at Marvel and Marie Lombardo very excited to be chatting with you can you tell us what you do at Marvel so I am the digital design lead currently I work with the Marvel unlimited marketing team

20:08 and basically my team is responsible for pretty much any of the graphics that you see online anywhere as far as ads Instagram post social posts and even down to some print ads and a lot of the Comic-Con Graphics that you'll see that is really cool because I don't know that people always think about like how many people are involved with every aspect of comics making oh definitely can you talk to us a little bit about your connection to Marvel like have you always been a fan so it's funny actually I grew up watching the X-Men cartoons as a kid so that was always my favorite but I wasn't into Marvel until my first job out of college I actually worked for WWE the wrestling company and we did uh we ended

20:54 up doing some Partnerships with marvel at some time and uh they got me into the comics and you know particularly I really enjoyed the art and so from there you know I started reading more comics and then actually once the first Iron Man movie came out it was kind of when I really got hooked how did you actually get started as a digital design lead here when I started in college my first major was actually historic preservation wow so I really enjoyed art always but I had this idea that I wanted to restore like old paintings but it turns out it kind of really wasn't for me and when I was at I somehow got photoshop on my computer and I started making you know kind of funny photos and I started making invitations and doing interesting things

21:40 and so I ended up doing that and I just kind of realized that I really enjoyed you know using the computer to make all these things and it was so fun all the stuff that you could do so from there I changed my major and I started doing more design work and then out of college I started working for WWE and from there I changed over to I changed jobs to CBS and when I was just kind of one day kind of getting a little bit bored I was like looking for you know job openings and I was like wow it would be really great if I could work at Marvel there happened to be a job opening I was like I have to you know take my shot and it was really exciting what does a digital design lead actually do and then what does a typical day look like for you so we kind of do everything that you can think of that's

22:25 that's digital for marketing and for uh anything that you see around in a typical day you know it could be anything anything new every day as a design lead I manage a team of designers I like to make sure that I always get my hands dirty as well and jump in and and try to help out as much as I possibly can can you remember the first time that you sort of understood that this was an actual job it's funny you know I remember like my first day jumping in and being like wow I'm I'm really overwhelmed you know even even for someone who is a fan and there's and there's so much that you know about that you think that you know about there's so much more there's just so much more so being there you you feel how important

23:10 Marvel is to people I think I kind of realized how how important it was mostly because my my dad was always telling random strangers that I worked for Marvel cuz he was so happy I was like yeah I was like I guess yeah this is a this is a big thing that's really cute I mean speaking of which this is a big question but of everything you've worked on at Marvel what is something that you're really proud of I really enjoyed working on the Marvel and unlimited app that was really fun to see when you could see the star rating go up because people are really enjoying it but also I really enjoyed working on the the walls for San Diego ComicCon are really fun because you get to see a lot of people's reactions and see how they like it you mentioned Marvel unlimited and I like I've written for Marvel unlimited it's

23:57 an incredible app like if you are a Comics reader like I I can remember when it like launched and I was like this is the coolest thing I've ever seen in my life like I at my fingertips access to so much can you tell our listeners who might be unfamiliar with the app what it is and what's going on in Marvel unlimited Marvel unlimited if you're a Comics reader it's kind of a no-brainer because it's it's basically all of Marvel's library and in your hands you can take it anywhere you want you could read anytime anywhere and it's got old comics and it even has new Comics new Comics will be in as early as like 3 months so basically everything is on there that you can read it's over 30,000

24:43 comics and it's growing every day there's always new comics and on top of that there are exclusive Comics that aren't even available you know anywhere else so it's the only place you can read them and my personal favorites would be Jeff the land shark and alligator Loki those are like my two favorite ones if you enjoy Comics you're going to enjoy Marvel unlimited you have your job but you touch a lot of the work that other people do if you could do any other job at Marvel for a week what would it be you know it's funny I've always loved actual movies so I think if I could do like storyboarding or you know some kind of like animation graphics for movies I think that would be really amazing so if somebody was

25:28 interested in you know a job like yours and working in digital design do you have any advice for them you know design it is a complicated and it's a competitive field but a lot of times what people people don't realize is that if you put in the effort and the work and you and you show that you're really passionate that's going to come through no matter where you go you know people are going to see that that you're passionate and that you really take pride in in your work and and what you want to do and that's something that you really want to do so I would just say like be true to yourself and invest in yourself and also be prepared to work as a team too teamwork is really important being able to work as a team and it's something that here we we do really well at Marvel we have a really nice kind of family

26:14 feel and I love it yeah creative work requires so much collaboration which only makes the thing better I think when you when you're on a team that all really clearly like you said have the passion and have the care and can just build on ideas is is there a moment you can think about during your career at Marvel that is like a pinch me Moment Like You Still sort of can't believe that it happened one thing that I I feel like I'll never forget is watching endgame with the entire company being there with all your friends and all the people that you worked with and everyone worked so hard on everything and watching that movie for the first time and it was it was such an event and watching it all happen and all those scenes that make everybody you know get crazy it was really

27:00 it you know gives you Goosebumps really it was really an amazing experience to sit there and and have that whole culmination happen yeah I can imagine that would have been an incredible experience was really amazing this was such a wonderful conversation thanks again so much for joining us and if you're curious about the Marvel unlimited app you should know that it's your OneStop destination for over 30,000 digital Comics spanning the entire Marvel Universe OT and other terms apply Marvel unlimited is open to us residents ages 18 and up see marvel.com unlimited for details soy why do you think it is that

27:46 so many super Geniuses become villains I mean speaking from personal experience I can tell you that being smart is just really hard what about being a villain is that from personal experience that's the easy part aha yes I mean we certainly have our good guy Smarties in the Marvel Universe like the Fantastic fors Reed Richards Tony Stark or Moon girl Luna Lafayette but maybe being super intelligent just makes some people feel Superior to everyone else and that ego can lead them down a dark path so uh you're saying it gives them a big head nudge nudge wink wink yes I see what you're doing there yes today we are taking a deep dive into the history of the leader The Incredible Hulk's Mega

28:35 brainy and very very large-headed Archen enemy very large head yes but Samuel Sterns AKA The Leader doesn't start off as a genius at all in the beginning he's a high school dropout barely talented enough to hold down his job at a government research lab in the southwest and we're not talking a white lab coat wearing type of job this is more of a dirty coveralls lugging barrels of toxic waste kind of gig and that is where things go very wrong for Samuel Sterns or if you ask Sterns himself very very right one of the extremely dangerous containers he's carrying around cracks and explodes dousing him in gamma radiation by All rights Sterns should be dead but instead he wakes up in a hospital with an unquenchable thirst for knowledge dude binge reads A library's

29:22 worth of books and then some taking in as much data as he possibly can get his hands on and those hands by the way they're slowly turning a deep Shamrock H along with the rest of him within a week Sterns is green enough to win a Kermit the Frog lookalike contest also his head is now and I cannot stress this enough enormous Stern's gamma fuel brain balloons in size and his Cranium expands with it as does I assume his hat size this guy could rent out his forehead as a billboard if he wanted to but he wants more than that he wants to rule the world very quickly Samuel Sterns aims his Newfound intellect towards the domination of those he deems inferior he dubs himself the leader and immediately goes about hiring armies of spies and

30:08 henchmen building secret layers plotting government takeovers you know all that cool bad guy stuff yeah much of the leader world domination plans involves stealing cuttingedge technologies that could be used for his own diabolical plans and when he sends one of his spies to swipe some battle armor created by a certain Dr Bruce Banner that henchman is thwarted handily by the Hulk spoiler alert Bruce Banner is the Hulk which Sterns knows but he still wants Banner's invention so if it first you don't succeed try try again this time the leader sends a Bonafide super villain the chameleon to obtain the battle armor and the chameleon is stopped by the Hulk so the leader builds a super strong Android which he dubs the humanoid and sends that and the humanoid is stopped

30:54 by the Hulk so the leader sends an entire Army of humanoids hey guess what m Hulk smash yeah well this is the start of what will turn out to be one of the longest running rivalries in Marvel Comics it is a classic matchup of brains versus Brawn and the leader makes his beef with Banner very personal he even Sons a mind-controlled super villain the Rhino to bust up Bruce's wedding to his longtime sweetie Betty Ross in addition to his solo outings the leader is also a member of the intelligencia a who's who of Evil Geniuses who get together to cause trouble along with your boy Sterns you've got the Mad thinker Egghead the wizard the Red Ghost and modok the only guy with a larger skull than the leader

31:40 that is a lot of brain power who could possibly be the leader of a group like that I'll give you three guesses just kidding of course I know who it is it's not like the guy named himself the follower it's true but here's the question is the leader actually a good leader well perhaps the most notable of the intell encia schemes comes after they figure out how to create a Hulk of their own using red gamma radiation the intelligencia approaches General thus Thunderbolt Ross the longtime head of the US Army's anti- Hulk Division and perhaps the only person to hate the Hulk more than Samuel Sterns they convince Ross that to beat a Hulk he must become a Hulk and he lets them turn him into the Red Hulk of course this is only because they want control of some Hulk

32:26 level power for their own devious purposes and when Ross realizes he's being used the Red Hulk who in addition to being super strong can also absorb energy drains the leader of all his gam radiation turning him back into Old dinky Sam Sterns and that really could have been the end of it if not for General Ross's big fat ego Ross having apparently learned nothing from what just happened decides he could use the leader's strategic mind on the new Thunderbolts team he's putting together so he rowers Samuel Stern with red gamma and brings him on board and then guess what happens just as red Hulk betrayed the intelligencia the red leader betrays Ross and the Thunderbolts Samuel Sterns escapes and happily reverts to his life

33:11 of crime and Hulk baiting mostly Hulk baiting he really hates the Hulk and continues to be a persistent Nemesis oh and he also turned himself green again which from an aesthetic sense is simply the better choice it's also the color of envy and when the leader's main goal in life still seems to be proving himself Superior to Bruce Banner there's no color more fitting for Samuel Sterns it is Easy Being [Laughter] [Music] Green we are less than a month away from the release of Marvel Studios Captain America Brave New World in the comics it's been over 10 years since Sam Wilson

33:58 first picked up the shield so let's take a look back at one of his most inspiring moments in Captain America and the mighty Avengers Issue Number Four released in 2015 written by Al eing Sam Wilson is relatively new in the role of Captain America the public doesn't know yet what to think of the new cap which throws him into a fit of depression and despair fellow Avengers Spectrum AKA Monica Rambo urges cap to answer the question how and why does Captain America come back from defeat to which Sam replies Captain America is not just for the good days he can't be I can't be if Captain America can't stand for the dream on the very worst day when America is Fallen then there is no Captain

34:43 America because our worst day is only where we start from where we rise from and if the man in the flag is too special to fall and rise and struggle with the rest then God help us all if I've got to work harder now prove more that's always true and that's a weight I I'm proud to carry next week on the official Marvel podcast Captain America Brave New World director Julius Ona takes us behind the camera ahead of the film's release much like the first film being a World War II film playing in the paranoid Thriller space this is also playing in that sort of Thriller space as well that is full of grounded exciting set pieces that are tack

35:30 and have a tremendous amount of tension to them that's it for this episode if you haven't already make sure to leave us a review wherever you are listening it helps other Marvel fans find the show yes and make sure you're subscribed so you never miss an episode this episode was hosted by prey chibber and myself Langston belon our producers are Jasmine Estrada and Anita Flores with additional writing by Christopher Healey with help from senior manager of audio production and development Brad Barton and production manager Emily Godfrey mix by Emma Munger theme music by Ida oall executive producers are Lissa Rosen and Jesse Burger thank you all so much for listening see you next week and now presented for you the Marvel unlimited legal [Music]

36:17 disclaimer Auto renewal and other terms and conditions apply Marvel unlimited is open to us residents ages 18 and up void where prohibited Marvel will automatically renew your subscription by charging your payment method on file at the renewal rate then in effect unless and until you cancel subscribers can cancel their subscription at any time by accessing my account or reaching out to Marvel customer support at help. marvel.com all subscription fees are non-refundable no refunds or credits for partial months or years Marvel user account and internet connection required see marvel.com unlimited for details nice you did that thank you thank you I am also available to read side effects of medications the