From Quadruplet Loss to Legacy - How Debbie Simmons Found Hope Again #pregnancylosssupport #hope

0:00 On today's episode of The Hope Pandemic, we're joined by Debbie Simmons. Debbie is the founder and CEO of Anchorpoint, which is a nonprofit that serves families through counseling, education, and spiritual development. She's also the mom of nine adopted children and 15 grandchildren. Her path to motherhood took a very sharp curve when she lost her quadruplet sons followed by a season of deep grief, burnout, and doubt. Debbie knows exactly what it is like to question everything. And she talks about in this episode about being a why person and how God pivoted that why question to a different question. in the middle of her grief, it was the

0:46 hand of God who led her through her pain, even on those days where she didn't even know if she could get out of bed. Um, she will tell you that it was through the loss that her purpose and her legacy actually began. So, today you're going to hear a little bit about her nonprofit. We kind of go all over the the treasure map today. She's going to share some about her sons, her children that she adopted, and how she is carrying hope forward um to serve other families in a community at large. So, if you're feeling like you're at a a finish line of defeat, maybe you feel overwhelmed today, maybe you just you're not facing any of those things, but you need to get off the starting blocks and into the race, maybe you're feeling

1:32 unqualified, this episode could be for you. So, I want you to tune in and let's hear some of Debbiey's story. >> Debbie, thank you so much for being with us. You describe your work as helping people move from stuck to anchored. What does anchored mean to you right now? For me, it has always meant that my life is anchored in Jesus. Uh the Bible's very clear that we need to keep our eyes on him and to stay focused. And you know a lot of times what we find is that you or I will spend our time kind of looking back >> and when we look back we pick up you know um guilt and shame and different things like that. And when we look forward we pick up anxiety and worry.

2:19 And so anchored is in the present with my eyes on him leaning in to becoming more of who he's calling me to be. And that is the only thing that we have the ability to control and the only way that we can get unstuck. And so we need to be anchored in him and then we need to be fully present and leaning into him. So that is what it means to me and what I train people on all the time. And you know, I get to do that as part of um my job as CEO of Anchorpoint and the ministry that we run that impacts families um from the moment they uh are struggling with the decision to choosing life all the way till those kids are 18 um and make it to adulthood. And so you

3:06 get to experience that at all phases of parenting and crisis and all kind of interesting thing that God allows us to get into. But it all comes back to that we have to stay with our eyes on him and everything else will work its way around that. Um, and somehow God works it out every time. So that's that's what it means for me. That's so amazing. I got this the visual of like how we orbit [clears throat] around the sun. The sun doesn't orbit around us. So, it's constantly looking at the son, looking at the father, no matter what season of life we find ourselves in. You sound like just such a faith champion. And I'm just like, I just want to link arms with

3:51 you because like, you know, when you're going through times where you you do have the wise and you do have the questions, you need people to come alongside you and to and to help you. Maybe if it's not making sense of something, but just to say, "I've got you. I'm standing with you in prayer. of believing for your next God still has good plans for your life. You know, you don't become a champion without having to face a few giants. So, you've personally journeyed through deep personal loss, burnout, self-doubt. Um, when you think back to your story, you know, who you were before Anchor Point, who you were before today, before this call, um, what do you wish that you would have known about hope in your darkest times that you know now?

4:37 >> I think I would resonate back to kind of what I just said is that this idea of hope really is Jesus and hope is keeping our eyes on Jesus, you know. So, the only real hope we have is what Jesus has done for us and the restoration of the relationships that we have. And it's the only thing that makes this world make sense to me. Um, for sure, you know, and so I'm going, I wish I would have known sooner [snorts] how to do what I do now naturally. Uh, and that would have helped ease the way, you know, I think when I was a teenager and stuff like that that it just would have eased the way for me is if I would have gotten

5:23 really good at my faith muscle, learning to trust him each and every day. And I, you know, I teach my um I [snorts] have grandkids now and I teach my little grandkids that are four and five and six when they're flipping out. I'm like, "What do we say? What do we say?" And they're like, "I don't know." And I'm like, we say, Jesus, help us with the dark. Jesus, help me with this. Jesus, help me with that. You know, whatever it is. But I said, you got to learn to do this because Jesus is here and he's going to take care of you. And so, you know, teaching them that skill that that is their default to what they go to is so powerful. I wish I would have had people that would have planted those seeds in me earlier. Um, I got it. It just took me a little while. [laughter]

6:09 I mean, I'm right there with you >> still learning all of that, too. But I know it is. It's so crazy. And I think that's the most beautiful thing about like the doover, right? We get to parent our children the way that maybe we wished that we would have received more. It allows us to lean in a little bit closer to like how would I help, you know, me handle this now? And so, um, it's very healing to be able to minister to your children and grandchildren in your instance by speaking that into them and giving equipping them basically. [snorts] Um, >> yeah. And teaching them how to, you know, I'm like, dude, don't do the hard things I had to do [laughter] right now. And, uh, some of my children still take the hard way. And that's okay. Um because you know our job is to

6:57 come alongside them and love them and encourage them in their walks. But I'm going if we could just skip that would be wonderful. Um so I'm going okay grandbabies we're going to get it right. How many grandchild working on it? >> 15. >> Oh my gosh that's quite a Christmas. >> Yeah. Lots of fun. >> Amazing. So you told me that you you actually used to be an engineer in oil and gas before you moved into ministry. So talk to me about I'm sure that translates into motherhood very well [laughter] um with being very structured and uh my husband studied engineering in school but he ended up not pursuing it because he was like I just don't want to do CAD all day. [laughter] But how how does your structured and analytical mindset actually partner with

7:44 this empathy and you know the feminine you that shows up to lead and coach today? >> Yeah. Well, I will tell you this. Uh, this is the funniest story about, okay, I also have an organizational management degree. Um, a master's in it. Okay. But the funniest story about how my engineering degree and organizational management degree is used is this fact that when our first sibling group that we adopted moved into our home, um, the youngest child who was six, it was a sibling group of five. when uh Shelby came, he came in, you know, it was a basketball team. So they're they're outside playing in the backyard the first day they're there. And Shelby comes in, this little six-year-old, and

8:29 he looks up at me and he's like, "What's for dinner?" And I look at this kid, and I go, "Do you ask this every day?" Cuz I am really not prepared. Uh and it was like, and he's like, "Yeah." And I'm like, "Oh my god, I have a plan." And uh so once that kind of happened, I realized, "Oh my gosh, I have to have systems and structure or I'm not going to survive this new thing called motherhood I've just walked into with five kids." And so I'm like, you know, laundry systems, food systems, all this. I started putting all that stuff to work. And so that has been where, you know, it's helped me. But it's interesting no matter the journey that God takes us on, you know, through the

9:15 different positions that I've had and the different degrees I hold and different things like that is so interesting. He chooses to use it all in different ways. So when we found that when I founded and started Anchorpoint, all those engineering project management skills are just used with people, not you know instead of systems. And then you know uh organizational management all that stuff kind of comes into play. Um ministry work that I had done comes into play. It's it's fascinating how God takes all the things that we get exposed to and you know he could have taken us from here to here you know instead mine looks like this you know >> but I picked up things along the way that I use all the time now you know.

10:02 Um, I I mean I did a stent helping train car salesmen. >> That's fantastic. >> You know, [laughter] >> bring some integrity to the car salesman industry. >> I know. But it's really good for painting vision for donors, >> right? You know, and who would have ever thought, right? You know, so I think God uses all of those things um as he continues to grow us if we're willing to give them to him and say, "You make of it what you want. you know what's best for me and I'm going to trust you with that story. >> Absolutely. Well, you you leaned into adopting a basketball team, if you will. Um, but there's more to the story, obviously. So, you know, you shared with me that you you went through a very dark time of devastating [clears throat] loss

10:49 of your quadruplets and um I'd love for you to share some of that as much as you feel led to with the audience. And I'd like to take the audience through a journey of how God used that pregnancy and and then going through that dark time of loss to shape you into who you are today. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm going to back up just a little bit before that. And you know, one of the things I think we always need to understand is that each of us have dreams or thoughts of the way we perceive things are going to happen in our lives. And one of the dreams that I had as a younger person was that I had this dream that I wanted to be a young grandma. [snorts] I didn't have grandparents because they had passed

11:34 away and I had a lady that kind of adopted our family and was a grandparent, but she was older and she was in a wheelchair and she couldn't do some of the things that grandparents can do right? >> And so in my mind, I'm like, I need to be a young grandma. I want to be available. I want to be able to play. I want to be able to do all, you know. So, in my mind, I'm going, okay, I'm a girl that gets things done. I need to find a guy, fall in love, get married, have children, and then I can be young grandma, right? Okay. So, I set out to do that. Um, you know, not like, you know, putting ads in the paper or anything like that. I did go to college and when I was in college, I did find a guy and I fell in love and uh we eventually got married. I did get my

12:20 degree. Um but after that um we ran into infertility and so for years we had infertility issues and just over and over and over again never ever getting pregnant. Um and that in itself was a whole identity issue for me. uh because my body would not do what my heart desired and I'm like I'm a failure. And I remember very clearly in that process there was one time I just my uh cycle came and I just threw myself on the bed and I was like life is over. It's terrible. I hate my life. I I'm a

13:06 failure as a woman, as a wife, as a potential mother. I can't do any of these things and I'm a girl that can get things done. And so this was this was a really challenging time to really continue trying to trust God and to figure my way um and learn that it's okay if I don't have this dream, right? And so I was like, okay, we did eventually get pregnant, which was wonderful. Um and we got pregnant originally with uh we were diagnosed with twins and then um I my body started trying to misaryry and we ended up in the emergency room and then a high-risisk doctor and they diagnosed me with quads >> and that's why I was attempting to

13:52 misaryry because who eats for five and drinks for five all day long you know and so I you know we had to make some radical changes and the fascinating thing is when we were diagnosed with twins. That was a little overwhelming and we were kind of like, "Okay, God, we don't know exactly how we're going to do this." My husband was in graduate school. I was the bread winner. Um, but we figured out how we would handle twins. When we were diagnosed with four, it was like, I have no idea how we're going to do this. I have [laughter] We have no idea what we're doing. Um, but you say you love life. Um, the doctor tried to talk me into selectively reducing. I didn't want to do that. Um, and I was like, got to trust you with

14:39 the story. And off we go on this journey. Right now, what happens when you go to four? You realize very quickly that every day it's pretty amazing to make it to the next day in the pregnancy. So, you live very much in the present. >> Um, because you don't know if tomorrow's coming, right? And so it's like seize the moment, experience it, the next day comes, do the next day, do the next day. Uh I did freak out early in the process when they first diagnosed me. And I was talking to my mom and I was like, I don't know how I'm going to survive. I can't even get these kids home with car seats in the car. My car won't hold four. And then how am I going to pay for all this? And what if they want to play on sports

15:24 teams? And how much is going to college going to cost? And what if they're all girls? and they have to get them married and they have to pay for weddings and d and I mean I was just going on and on and my mom was like you just breathe for a second and she said we need to take one day at a time >> and when she said that everything in me went oh that's a great idea you know and all the pressure went down so staying on that focus of you know keeping my eyes on him and trusting him each day and around 26 weeks Our goal was to get to 30. Over 26 weeks, we found me standing in water because one of the baby's sacks had ruptured. >> And they admitted me to the hospital uh with the goal of me staying until 30

16:12 weeks or as far as I could go in that pregnancy. Um the next morning um contractions came crashing in and one of the babies had taken their hand and stuck it through my stitch cervix and was waving to the world. Hello I'm coming. And I was like this is way too soon. This is not good. And I'm like doctor can you stop this? And she's like no we can't. And I'm like can we just put that hand back and forget it ever happened? And she said no. And I just was so stunned that I just closed my eyes, took a deep breath, and I resolved to try and figure my way through >> because you're just kind of gnome at

16:57 that spot, right? And so they took me off to surgery, brought me back in the room, and um we waited. And several hours later, little Zach arrived and they placed him in my arms. And technology was not available at that time that could save those boys. It would be different today. Um, so they placed him in my arms and I held them. I held him and I rocked him. And he was really a cool little kid. He took his fingers and he wrapped it around my finger and he squeezed and said, "I'm here. I love you." and I held him until he drifted off into eternity. And um then we had empty arms and we waited and

17:43 we had to we had another question that then came into play and that was would my body allow me to carry the other ones or [snorts] would it reject them? Few hours went by, I got sicker, my blood work was a mess, and the doctor walked back in the room, placed her hand on my shoulder and said, "You have to induce." And I looked at her for just, you know, just a sliver of hope, just some sliver and nothing. And she shook her head again. No. So, I closed my eyes, breathed again, and said, "God, I've got to resolve my way to figure through this again, right?" And so, a few hours later, Josh, Nate, and

18:30 Chris each arrived individually, and they placed them in my arms, and I held them, and I rocked them, and I loved them until they drifted into eternity. And then we sat empty arms, broken hearts. And the biggest challenge, you know, in addition to that, it wasn't just the boys that we lost. It was my dream of being this young grandma. And, you know, grief wasn't polite that day. It barged in, rearranged the room, and, you know, dared me to keep breathing. And I remember, you know, crying out to God and just like, can you just give me the plan or a road map, something I just don't understand. I don't know how to do

19:15 this. And um he was like, "You don't need the whole plan. Just need the next best step. Trust me, I got you." And I'm like, "Uh, that's good, but that ain't good enough. That's not what I really wanted to hear. I wanted, you know, a burning bush or a Google doc heaven to me. And I But what I learned is that [snorts] that next best step, that's that's truly where legacy begins. And um you know for me the real lesson here is I looked around everywhere to try and I mean you don't go to the

20:01 hospital planning funerals you know and so I'm sitting there and I'm going I don't even know what to do with this like I don't have >> your body's going through them. >> Yeah. >> Like the hormonal >> roller coaster. So, as I'm going, why God? You know, that's the number one thing that you and I always ask is why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why me? Why my boys? Why now? Why this? You know, and you gave me this desire for children. Why? You know, and God's just like, you don't need that answer. And the the wiser I get as time goes by, I realize that even if God would have stood in front of me himself in that hospital, if he would have told me the reason my boys had to pass away, what do you think my next

20:46 question would be? It would be why? Because that one's not good enough. [laughter] Because I'm like nothing is going to satisfy me. Nothing's going to bring my boys back. Nothing's going to take away my pain. And so the reason he said you have to give me your why is because why is a question that keeps us stuck. Okay? Why is a very inward focusing it's like a tornado and it just like sucks you right down because we can't move. There is no good answer to why. Okay. So when I'm teaching and training people I'm like we have to flip the question. And God taught me, he was like, "I need

21:32 you to ask me a different question." And I'm like, "What in the heck am I supposed to ask you?" Um, and he's like, "How do I survive?" When I ask that question, "How do I go on? How do I survive? How do I do this?" Then God always promises he gives us wisdom. But he's just like, "Take your next step. Whatever you think the best one is, not the right one, just whatever's best. Do something." And I'm not a huge um I'm not a huge like superwoman. I mean some days my next best but really truly my next best step was some days was to pull the covers off of my head, get out of the bed, brush my teeth, and walk around and get back in the bed five minutes later. But that was the best I had at

22:19 the moment. And then other days I could do other things. I could get up, I could have kind of a normal day or eventually I could go back to work. I could do all those things. But grief is a very funny thing. And you know, it's always just like what is that next best step? And who are the people in my life that can encourage me? >> Yeah. >> So to to walk that next best step and not let me sit in. Okay. And then from there, as I journeyed, I began to get better. And as I got better, then the question became, okay, I think I I think I'm doing this surviving thing, you know, now God, how do I thrive? I don't want to be a person who dies right here,

23:04 you know, emotionally dies >> and still lives on this earth. I know people who lost children same time I did and they're still stuck. >> Yeah. >> And I'm going, I don't want to be that way, God. So here's You say you redeem stories. Here's my story. I don't know what you want to do with it, but take it and use it. And so, as he did that, he began to open doors for like helping people with struggling with losing children, helping people in grief groups. Um, ultimately led to doing the adopting thing, you know, and adopting children. It led to starting the nonprofit. It led to writing the book, The Heart of Legacy. It led to speaking. And you know what I realize now is that my boy's legacy lives on. Um, and the

23:50 leg and so eternity became so important for me in that process that I'm going how can I be intentional now? And that has revolutionized everything because when we're intentional now, we learn to live our legacies now so we have them to leave later, right? And so my boys lived theirs so it would live on. And now I get to live mine so it will live on. And so that is that is my journey uh as I went through that big challenging time that you know I wouldn't wish on anyone >> but I believe that God's using it for his glory. And it's um [snorts] it's a privilege to have learned how to suffer well through and with him from that

24:37 perspective. Well, there's just such an oil on everything that you speak and it can only be because of that, you know, because of the crushing that you endured. But, you know, as you so beautifully put it, just, you know, that their lives are living pillars for people and you get to talk about them and I'm just so grateful that we get to hear their story and just their personality from day one, you know, and just how precious they are and and it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what we're struggling with. >> Yeah. >> Whether we have addiction, whether we're depressed, where we got anxiety, you know, most of us spend our time going why why. And uh the real question is how? Because why is about me. How is about movement.

25:23 >> Um and uh that is that is the biggest deal is I've got to move for I can't stay where I am. And God loves us enough that he won't let us. Right? And so you'll either get more miserable >> or you will surrender to the how, you know, and that is the question. And I've just learned I've I apply that why to how question all the time. I mean, even like in my job or my relationship with my husband and everything, the sooner I get to how, the sooner I can make my way through it. So, like I had a um I always like to use this one because you know as a CEO you're responsible for people and I had a I had a lawsuit that came from

26:10 an employee after co >> and we had done everything right by this um person and uh when I got the lawsuit [laughter] naturally I went why me and why this and why that you know and I was like because I'm like I I'm why caused me to be fearful because I'm like this could ruin the ministry and I did everything right and I'm mad and I you know so I'm quickly starting to like spiral and I went something in me just went stop it and so I stopped and I was like okay this isn't going to be good if I keep going down this path >> right

26:55 >> very bad >> I've been there [laughter] >> and so I said I said How can I survive this? Cuz I don't want it to kill the ministry. I don't, you know, how how am I going to get I I don't know how to get through this, right? And this was a new experience for me. You know, the second lawsuit, let's pray that I don't have one. But the second lawsuit will be like, oh, I did that already, you know. Um, but the first one I'm like, you know, and so I finally said, okay, God, >> how do I get through this? You are not surprised by where I'm sit. this is you knew this was coming, you know, and all this stuff. You were not surprised. So, how are we getting through this? Because I don't have a clue. And uh I the next step that came to mind was maybe I ought

27:40 to call my lawyer. [laughter] >> I thought that was pretty good idea. And so I I called the lawyer, but that you know the tough thing of walking through the lawsuit wasn't wasn't that I had to go the lawsuit was a pain, but the real truth is God took care of us in that. Okay? And the question the real question was is how was I going to approach this? >> And how was I going what was my attitude going to be? Was I going to let this steal my joy and throw me into a tizzy? And what we have to understand is that everyone is watching how I do this. All of my staff are watching and they're struggling with the fact that we got it

28:27 anyway. Do you know what I'm saying? And their jobs might be in danger or, you know, they're just emotionally tied up and, you know, frustrated for it. You know, all this good stuff. My children are watching how we walk through difficult things in life. And so I go, this is this test, this situation is my opportunity to teach them and show them how to how to walk through something well because we're going to all come across things in our lives. Um I think I gave a speech last week and u one of the things is is there's a statistic that says that um most adults will face at least three major life disruptions that

29:12 radically shift your sense of direction. >> Okay? And we don't plan for those and you know we're not really looking for them but they shape us more than anything else. And so, you know, the mindset that we take into those things. And I've just gotten really good now of going, "Okay, God, I don't need the why. I don't know how we're getting through this. You say you got you're the big daddy God. You got the world. And you're going to need to give me some wisdom." And I'm waiting. >> I'm like, "I'm here. I'm like here. I'm right here." >> Well, so like we have a gap to fill. Like you have this experience with your sons and they promote to heaven and and then and then you go on and somewhere in

29:59 your how process from from becoming a mother and having that whole picture look completely different than what we imagined. You move into adopting not one, not two, not three, but nine children. >> Yeah. >> And you've built these programs through Anchorpoint that serve thousands of families. like talk to me. How did you get from >> the how to we're going to adopt nine kids? LIKE THAT'S THAT'S NOT just a little step. That's like a long jump. [laughter] >> We didn't we didn't go straight to nine. So, we kind of got warmed up and landed there. Um but uh I would say, you know, after you know, this idea of eternity matters that I kind of walked away with after losing the boys and learning to

30:44 live very intentionally and asking God to redeem the story. um that actually led me through seminary. Uh and so I have a seminary degree also. And when um my husband and I were both finally had jobs together. Um I looked at him and I said I matter of fact after losing the boys within a year we went back and we're going to try and get pregnant again. And I just couldn't handle it. I was emotionally exhausted physically, mentally, everything. And I just told him, I said, "I can't I just I can't do this right now." And so we uh continued on down the road, not knowing what God would do with it, but I'm I just said, "God, you gave me this love of children."

31:29 And somehow you're going to fulfill that. I don't know what that's going to look like, but you're going to fulfill that. and went through seminary and then God I was working on a church staff um but God moved us to South Carolina and when he did he put me in a children's pastor's role in an administrative pastor kind of a dual role and I was like I didn't really think about doing children's ministry but I loved it. I love doing children's ministry, but I told God, I'm like, you know, if I wasn't very clear about my prayer thing way back when, I really was thinking I still wanted my own children, not 300 other people's children. However, I'm happy to be this children's pastor and do this. And that actually my husband

32:16 began to volunteer and serve in the ch children's ministry. And uh little did we know he was actually terrified of children. And so he taught large group which got him close but not too close. Uh and so it was actually a good training ground for him. And when we when I got that position, we were there, we were settled. Um you know, I said, "Hey, look, we're not getting any younger. If we want to try and get pregnant, then we need to consider uh doing something about it because it might take us a while, right?" And um we sat down and we were praying about it and we had it, you know, thinking through what we wanted and uh this idea of adoption came up because, [snorts] you know, we could spend

33:02 literally thousands and thousands of dollars on fertility treatments >> and end up with nothing. Um, or we could see what children were available in the CPS foster care system that were legally free and just waiting for people to take them in and spend thousands and thousands of dollars there on these children over the years, right? And so >> we just went through this process of thinking about, you know, >> could we love children that weren't our children? And then, you know, I thought about that for a while and then I told my husband, you know, I love you and you're not my blood. So, uh, God must work this out somehow. And, uh, and, you know, like we didn't we we just began

33:48 kind of exploring this thing. And we were open to it. Uh, and God gave us the opportunity to adopt this sibling group of five. Um, which was a wonderful um, experience. And these children uh you know we already alluded to the fact that they rearranged my world but uh it also began to teach me you know children have a wonderful way of teaching you of where your wounded spots are that need to be healed. [laughter] >> Yes. >> And I say God gave me nine cuz I had a lot of work to do. And so um you know we we started with these children and we didn't have any plans to have any more than the five because the cool God story is that um my sibling group of five came

34:33 into my home seven years to the day that my children were my first four were born. And so we say God redeemed that day and gave us five instead of four not to replace them but in addition, right? >> Yeah. Like Job. >> Yeah. So that was a really cool thing. And then as we went along our journey, um [snorts] about eight years later, um I felt like God was challenging us to be willing to do it again and had a discussion with my husband. He said, "No, we're crazy. No." And uh he waited about six I said, "Pray about it." Six weeks went by and he came back and he said, "Okay." And um we turned our applications in and we ended up with a sibling group of two. Uh, and

35:18 so they joined us and that was very, it was very good but very very hard because you know if you if you remember the old Haraldo show, uh, that's kind of what my family looked like at times. Um, and it's just complicated when you have blended families and blended families and trauma and all this stuff. It's very beautiful, [clears throat] but it's very messy. >> Well, with the age ranges, I mean, were they teens, kids? So my first my first five came to us and they were 6 7 8 9 and 10. >> Wow. >> And then um when the next two came uh they were 11 and 13 and then my first five were 14 15 16 17 18. Um and then about three years later we felt like we

36:05 were supposed to do it again. My husband held out for six months this time. [laughter] [gasps] >> Can you imagine that much teenager energy in under one roof? Oh my gosh. Yes. And well, when we got the when we got the last ones, they were nine, 11, and then 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20. I mean, well, our youngest is now 21. Um, and so he just moved out of the house last week. And so, >> really? >> Yeah. It's our >> What are you gonna do now? [laughter] >> Well, I don't know. Now, I have lots of grandb babies, but uh but got you know, I thought about we thought about adopting a fourth time. Um [snorts] but um my husband cha made challenged me and he said why don't you pray about should we be adopting children into our home or should we be investing in people

36:53 who are adopting and training them up to know how to work with children that have trauma backgrounds and stuff like that. And so I prayed about it uh and this was when we were turning 50. So it's been several years ago. Uh, and my youngest kid had a couple of meltdowns while I was praying about it over the weeks and it interrupted my CEO job. >> And I was like, I came back to my husband. I said, "Okay, we're not supposed to adopt right now." I said, "We're supposed to invest in others." Um, and who knows, maybe we bring other people into our home at some point. We we're always open to that, but >> I think we're supposed to be investing in others. My husband's like, "Phew, you [laughter] know, cuz he's like, how do we do this?" But, um, it's been it's

37:38 been wonderful. So, you know, you think about that dream of, "Hey, I want to be a young grandma." >> And I still am a young grandma. It just didn't come about the way that I had uh [snorts] dreamed. And so, you know, letting God have that dream and letting God remake that however he sees um fit as to what is the best purpose for his plan is um you know he he wants to give us more than we could ever dream or imagine. Uh and so we just have to trust him how that process works. So that's how we ended up with all of those kids. Uh so >> I want I want you to share that one. We talked about this before the recording that when you were holding your the first baby and you had that moment where

38:26 you felt like there was a connection point between you and this child that you were adopting, but it also felt like a connection point between you and God. Can you talk about that a little bit? Uh yeah. Well, I mean, I will tell you what was the most amazing thing with the first five, um, in particular, um, is, you know, when we went to see them the first time, >> um, >> they had such wonderful foster parents that had gotten them ready to be adopted, uh, they walked in the room and they said, "Hello, mom." And, "Hello, Dad. I never seen this kid before." I mean, I then read about him. And my husband and I are sitting there and we're like, uh, I guess we're committed and we're in. And I mean, and like that

39:13 is the moment of trusting God and just seeing the bigger picture of what he's doing. But what a blessing to, you know, a lot of kids go through and go to adoptive families and struggle with the connection. Um, and the blessing that we had of being able, they were in such a place to be able to connect with us so easily and to love us so easily, um, that it made us, it made it easy for us to slide into being mom and dad. Um, and that was a that's a beautiful thing. [snorts] Wow. So, gosh, that's just I feel like we're leaving out so many little details of what it was like to transition into becoming a mom on a different path. Um, I guess probably one of the questions that I'd love to know is like how do you

39:59 balance everything that you do, you know, and and I know that you you kind of were training for reigning, so to speak, and now you're equipping other families to do the same, but how what does it look like to you in the day-to-day now with all of those children, double the, you know, more than double the blessings, then the grandchildren on top of it, then the nonprofit. What does today look like for you? >> [snorts] >> Well, I would this is it's an interesting question that you should ask me this now because um you know I'm doing a lot more speaking and writing books and uh elevating what I do over here on the Debbie Simmons side along with still being CEO and when you start a nonprofit you have your hands in everything and so raising up staff to be

40:47 able to take over responsibility where I can do kind of governance Um, uh, the number one thing that God has had me work on is learning to get my inner self right so that my outer self can lead well in all these situations. And you know if I am you know struggling with like over taking over responsibility and not freeing people up to lead you know or uh pulling responsibilities to me so that you don't have to experience the hard bumps of growing you know those types of things those aren't healthy right and so he has me do a lot of introspection in that's the right word

41:33 is it intersection >> introspection >> yes looking at me and really going, "Okay, God." And the number one thing, my word for this year is fly. Um, f l y. And in order to fly, I have to keep my eye on him, right? Okay. So, not, you know, looking back, not looking forward, doing the things that I believe he's called me to do and making sure that I am building time in there to make sure that I keep myself centered on him. That's the biggest thing I've been doing now. I have no idea. I I I'm sure if I thought back through it, my kids that have children now, they go, "Mom, I don't know how you did it with so many kids." And I'm going, "I don't know either." Um I don't remember. I was a a whole coma

42:19 state. I don't know. [laughter] Just figured it out. Um and you know, you just figure it out. But we figure it out because we know who to trust >> and we know who can show us the way there. Of course, when we had seven or eight kids in the house at a time, you know, there were plenty of nights we laid in the bed and I was like, "God, if you're not real, we're crazy. We're um and we need help." You know, and my kids have trauma backgrounds. Therefore, there's hard stories even as they've turned into adults that we've had to walk through. And I go, I really have to trust that God loves my children more than I do. and that my main job is to plant seeds in them and to lead a leave a bridge to Jesus. That's my biggest job

43:06 as a parent. [snorts] Um, and I can trust him with that because them he loves them. And you know, if I can keep my trust there, if not, I pick up all kind of worry, right, and anxiety and all that stuff. And then I'm not present as a person and as a parent to be the person that I need to be for the person that sits in front of me at the time. >> So introspection, huh? >> Yeah. >> And I know and that requires you to slow down and stay focused. And I'm like >> I just rather ah run and go do and go. >> Yeah. You're a doer for sure. It is. It's hard like Yeah. Okay. So nothing to do with necessarily hope, but speak to the Marthas that need to be Marys in a

43:53 in a season. What is like give them a tip, encourage them. What would what would you do? How would you advise them right now? >> Well, here's what I would say is I am a girl that gets a lot of things done and I manage a lot of hats and do all this kind of stuff. And I will tell you the number one thing that God taught me over the last 40 years was um and it took a huge injury on my leg where I shut it I shut a truck door and and tore out part of my leg uh down by my ankle and um it wouldn't heal. And it wouldn't heal because I did not have the nutritional stuff that I needed in me to be able to help my body heal. And so I've gone

44:38 through three and a half, four years of working to get my health back to the place where I needed it to be. And I did not understand as a Martha um how stress affects me um and how I might not feel like I'm stressed, but my whole environment is stressful. There's no one that would look at me and go, "Oh, you're a CEO. You're a mom of nine. You got 15. You run 100 miles an hour. Your life is just peaceful." they'd go your way. [laughter] And I didn't even realize what bad shape I was in. Does that make sense? Until >> I've seen women do this where they just they live on burnout and they think that it's like glorifying hustle culture. And yes, go you are mantled to carry all of these things, but you you're not

45:23 supposed to carry all of them, >> right? And so this injury literally the wound doctor couldn't heal it. It required me working with a nutritionist that did um some natural things, but um it took me nine months to get that healed like an open wound. It's And I'm like going there's >> that's very rare. I mean, >> but I'm going there's what happened was my heart just couldn't pump the blood down there to get it well because my heart was going I only have enough energy to take care of the vital organs. If you lose your leg, it's okay. >> Wow. >> Okay. And so what that means is in the end as we kind of walk through this I went >> must be something I need to learn here

46:09 like in the nutrition food how sugar affects you all these things >> that I had just neglected not because I was like avoiding them but because I was uneducated um in this arena. And so, you know, God was like, either you learn to I would say to the Martha, we we willingly submit to slowing down or God will put a situation in our life that forces us to slow down. And when I went through that, I literally could have been dead. >> I mean, they wanted to put me in the hospital, weren't going to let me out till it healed, all this good stuff. And I'm like, I'm just not doing this. And so for me it was like I need to really think about this because I want to be

46:54 here. I want to be here to be there. >> You're a young grandma. Come on. You know and I got to do things. And so I'm like I want to be able to do those things. So I've got to start making adjustments in my life for this second phase, this second wind of whatever I'm going to do. Um or my life will be shortened and I don't want that to happen. And so, you know, we either surrender to it and learn to, you know, God, teach me to love this piece, too. Uh, or something's going to happen that's going to force me to do it. And I will tell you based on my experience, that's not the way to do it. Um, so don't do what I did. Do the other way. [laughter] Surrender early.

47:39 >> So, when you think of your vision of flying, do you think of yourself as like a bird or a plane? What do you see when you think of the word fly? You know what I wanted? I actually wanted the word sore. [snorts] >> Okay. >> And I didn't get it. And I I mean I had a I had a negotiated not that I was going to win, but I was negotiating. Could I have a different word? And God is like, "No, it's fly." Like, "Okay, then I must need to learn something about that, right?" And um I'm like and I'm a big when I get a word I'm big on okay God teach me what this means. Okay. And for me, this fly concept right now is um

48:26 there's this process of like um being a you know a caterpillar in a cocoon >> and then you have to break out of the cocoon and then it's time for you to spread your wings and go right you know and so that is the process because I remember earlier last year I was like I like this cocoon cocoon place you know I figured figured out this slow down thing and I like it over here cuz there ain't nobody bothering me. And I'm like, can I just stay here? And God's like, no, you got to get out of the cocoon. It's the next phase. It's time to take your message, you know, to the world and do these things. And I'm like, h, it's really good over here. And he's like, no, it's time to fly. And so, it's this idea of

49:12 keeping my eye on him. And I the other phrase that I have that goes with it is I was not made to carry this guy. I was made to fly. And so all those things I carry, >> he wants those so that I'm free to fly. Um as that butterfly would take off and fly. And eventually I'll get to soar, but uh you know, we got to start somewhere. So, so it's really cool because it's, you know, and all that comes down to the ability to fly and not carrying the sky and all this stuff is do I keep my eye on him? >> It is. And so, okay, I'm like, okay, I'm I'm going to do that and whatever it takes and I'm going to learn as I go through this year to do that. So, so I

49:58 create, you know, visuals with it and music with it and everything because I'm like, "Okay, we're gonna learn this word. Let's go." Hm. >> Yeah, I did a a study on monarchs 5 years ago and I even we even had monarchs that we had in our backyard at the time and [snorts] excuse me, my allergies. Um, it's funny cuz they're when they come out of their chrysalis, their wings are wet. So, they actually have to take a few days to strengthen and they really flex. They flex their wings until their wings get strong enough um and then they take off. So, um, but you know, we homeschool our 13-year-old and we were actually this morning just doing a study on birds and, um, he we were he I was

50:44 reviewing a test for him and we [snorts] were talking about soaring, you know, versus the it's actually the tail of the bird that determines um how well it's going to fly. And different birds have different widths of tails and different lengths of tails. And so it it's really the rudder that steers the ship, so to speak. So the the power is not necessarily in the wings, it's in the in the back. And I just thought that was very interesting cuz so many times when you see like an eagle or a hawk or you know whatever the bird is, you think that it gets its power from flapping its wings when it's really it makes the most of the draft and it spreads to soar, but it's really the rudder in the back

51:30 that's doing most of the work. So I was just curious. Um, so tell our audience as we're wrapping up today, like what are some of the things that you know you're not carrying the sky in 2026? You're flying, but what are some of those things that you're working on? God's calling you out to share your story at a greater magnification with the world. What are you working on right now? Or how can people get in touch with you if they'd love to have you come speak at their church or do an online session or whatever that looks like? How do people what are you doing and how do people get in touch with you? >> Yeah. So, the easiest way to figure out what I've got going on is to go to um the website thedebiesimmons.com and that is where all my speaking stuff is, the coaching, you know, I love to

52:16 help people who are going, you know, I'm pretty successful, but like is this all there is in life? I'm like that's the people I love to spend time with because I'm like, yeah, there is more and let's do this, you know? So um I do kind of coaching from that perspective um to help with that. But also we have the book um the heart of legacy uh which is my book that um I speak on and everything as I go through the country is um the hearttoofleacy.com and that's free and a gift for your um audience that is you know a wonderful thing that if you are stuck or you want to see how how do you walk through things to be faithful focused and fearless then that is a book that will help you implement that and figure out those next best

53:02 steps. And so I'm just excited that Anchor Point is continuing to grow and the leaders are rising up. And obviously I still get to do that, but that allows me the freedom to do a lot of the coaching and the traveling that I do um across the country and sharing um about what we do at Anchorpoint and what God's done in and through me. >> It's beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing that and just for being so open to tell your story. And I know you've had a lot of preparation time to do it and a lot of incredible wins along the way. Um I I always like to end them our time, you know, with one final pearl of hope. If you if you were to impart any like how let the Holy Spirit lead you if there you were to impart anything into any woman, man, child right now. Um

53:47 something that they can carry away from this episode about hope in your story, what would it be? I I would say that if you are a person and you are struggling and trying to figure your way and maybe life has thrown at you things that you weren't um didn't expect, maybe those disruptions that kind of altered your way that you know you your daddy God looks at you and he is not surprised by where you sit. And when he looks at you, he sees your preciousness and he smiles and he is so in love with you. And that um today might look not so pretty, but the sun always comes up tomorrow. [snorts]

54:34 Tomorrow is a new day. And so I would just say lean in, trust him, and ask that question of how do I figure my way? and he will be faithful to lead you because he promises to give wisdom to us each and every time. >> So good, Debbie. Thank you so much. >> What an incredible conversation with Debbie. You know, her story reminds us that hope doesn't always come as a tidal wave. Sometimes it just arrives as a whisper. And I love how when she had every moment to be deeply steeped in grief and anger and loss and frustration and wanting to know why. I think that's a question especially a lot of us women will ask is why God? Um he

55:20 responded to her with with a whisper and encouraging and challenging her to ask a different question. Um, I love her reminder that healing isn't about fixing oursel. It's about being shaped and formed by God into this unique vessel that has this ability to be poured out onto others and make a difference in in their life and maybe help them shift how they look at their pain. So, you know, I just feel like I need to say today that, you know, continuing on life's path of hope is a choice that we get to make every day from the moment that you open your eyes to the end of the day when you close them to rest. You get to make this conscientious choice to

56:07 pursue hope in times like these. Like, you don't have to be a genius to know that things are crazy in the time that we live in. And um I've said it before on previous episodes that there's this verse in the in the Bible that says, "Now these three things remain. Faith, hope, and love." And the greatest of these is love. You know, in today's episode context, I want you to think about the faith that you carry for the promises that the Lord has made to you. Hope is an attitude and a focus. You we've talked about that. is choosing to say, "I haven't seen it yet, but it's coming because I believe the Lord has promised it to me." Love is God's love language. You know, there's that book, the five love languages. Well, love is

56:54 is God's primary love language to us. And it says so in John 3:16 that God so loved the world, for God so loved you. And I would even encourage you to put your name in the blank. So his love and his personal promises made to you still stand because he is a promise making and a promisekeeping God. So if even if the circumstances that you're staring at like right today in this moment, if you've landed on this podcast and you've made it this far and you're going, "Yeah, that's great that God used it for her, but I don't see how he could possibly use this." this. And as I'm I'm seeing this, I'm seeing this vessel or this vase that like broke and crashed on the floor and it was supposed to hold something beautiful, but now it's like I don't even know if I have the glue to put this back together again or the

57:40 strength or the energy to do it one more time. So, but how he goes about fulfilling those promises to you is between him and you. I just want to encourage you today to keep believing and keep having hope because he's not done with you yet. >> [snorts] >> And I also feel like I need to say that sometimes when the vision and the promise doesn't come to pass, I mean, you you clearly see that in Debbie's story today, you know, she wanted to be a young grandma, which I think to have that goal as a child is just it's so it's so sweet, you know, but thinking that you've got this fast track for how your life should look and having all of these questions and having these dates and having the way that it needs to look in in our minds. And I think especially

58:25 as women, that's something that we're really good at doing. We're really good at wanting to create our own path, our own timeline to get there, our own objectives, and God's going like, "Hey, what about what I want?" You know, what about the the bigger, the greater work that I want to do in your life that is going to point to my glory later on down the road? I mean, when she was a little girl, she didn't see herself having nine adopted children and 15 grandchildren, but God led her to it and God brought her through it. And now she's using that experience and the loss of her sons to pour into families to create exponential impact. That's only God. He He

59:11 multiplies in ways that we don't understand. So, um, if your vision or if your promise doesn't come to pass the way the way it was supposed to look like, I just want to encourage you to go back and check your understanding of what the Lord spoke to you. It's not that the promise doesn't stand. It's just maybe he wanted to do it a different way. So, he's always preparing more than we can ask or think or imagine. And the Bible says according to the power of God or the Holy Spirit that is working in and through us. So I pray this makes sense to you and that you'll take some time to reflect on on these things between you and the Lord. You know, I'm leading as I feel like the Holy Spirit is helping me to say these

59:57 things. But if there's a nugget in here for you, don't run with something that I've said and and receive it as a word. Go to God and let God give you a word. So, if if you resonated today with Debbie's story, I would just encourage you to connect with her. She is on every social media platform. Um, I'm going to drop her information. I'm going to drop her free download book in the show notes. And I would encourage you to get that, especially if you're standing in a place where you don't even know if you have a legacy yet. get her book and immerse yourself in that and ask God to show you what his vision is for your life today in this moment. So, I want to just leave you with one one more little thing. You know, no matter how broken or

1:00:42 overwhelmed or defeated or how hopeless today looks, you know, your story is not done. You are being shaped. You are being formed. There is this, you know, God gave me this and I'll hold it up for you. He spoke to me that for this season of your life, he is writing it with a golden pen. So God is still writing your story and it can become a legacy of hope. So until next time, I want you to just give him the pen and let him keep writing your story and keep choosing