PRABOWO DIANGGAP BERBAHAYA KARENA KOCOK ULANG ELITE EKONOMI I Budiman Sudjatmiko

0:01 [music] Indonesia's fate will be determined not in 2045 but in 2030. That's the title of a podcast I followed a few days ago. The resource person is Bung Budiman Zujat Miko on the Cemas channel, yes, it's a community story. seeing [snort] imagination in 2045 Mas Bodiban with what is possible today being worked on. I've been even more suspicious of the words 2045 lately. [laughs] Why? How about it, Masud? It makes us relax. Hmm. Even though in 2030 the world will be different. Hmm. Yes Previously, it was different in 2030 and

0:48 we assumed that the homework would be collected in 2045. When we collected the homework in 2045 [laughs] the teacher had already moved schools. It has been announced who the winner is, it has been announced who passed. Even though it seems like the homework will have to be collected in 2030. That's the problem, bro, we said 2045, but then the 2045 homework will be collected in 2030. Maybe we [snort] said 2045 so we could finish the homework but it's no longer valid. The announcement of the graduation of countries from poor countries, middle countries, middle countries to developed countries has been announced because it has changed because the currency has changed maybe the superpower has changed the technology has changed

1:34 right he he we just got food, why close if in [snorts] the film there is love late in the morning it's already stale badi said dian sastro right this means this is a whipping for everyone bro right 2030 not 2045. If you consider 2045 or my child's future business. 2020 is your business. Yes It's my business too. How many days are left until 2030? How many hours left ? It's about 2030. Hey. That's interesting because [laughs] it's a critical juncture, yeah. Eh timing e time as a marker time for the moment of ee determination. Yes It reminds me of Mr. Prabowo's speech in 2018 which was quite popular at the time.

2:19 Indonesia will disband in 2030, they said in the past, yes, in the past. Yes, before the 2019 Presidential Election. Yes. Okay. Hehe. It was busy at that time, Pak Pak Prabowo said Indonesia would disband in 2018, sorry, 2030. Heeh. Kar and he based ee on ee novel yes scenario writing is a novel that is geopolitical and geo scenario writing yes. Yes About the future scenario, [snorts] Brothers and sisters. We still have ceremonies, we still sing the national anthem, we still use national symbols, the pictures of the nation's founders are still here. But in other countries they

3:04 have made studies where the Republic of Indonesia has stated that it will no longer exist in 2030. Bomb, they predict that we will disband. Our elite feels that 80% of the land in the entire country is controlled by 1% of our people. It is okay. That almost all assets are controlled by 1%. It is okay. that most of our wealth is taken abroad, not staying in Indonesia. It doesn't matter. This is what is destroying our nation, brothers and sisters. The smarter, the higher the position, the more cheating, the more cunning, the more thieving. It's not nice for us

3:52 to talk, but there's no time for us to pretend anymore. Well, that's why I'm interested in this to find out more about 2030 , man. Because in the chat about anxiety, there isn't much elaboration. Oh yes. I want you to elaborate further. Why 2030, yeah, first of all, I don't think it's because Mr. Prabowo ever said that. Because of this, people in the past thought that it was just a made-up story to use a fictional book as a theme for a speech. But it's actually like this, man. Sometimes a world event occurs and then a novel is made about it, for example, there is Le Misagab

4:38 which is about the French revolution and its aftermath. Then there is the name Germinal also the French revolution of the 1870s and so on and some Zivago or gone with the win for example he is usual like that. There are sometimes novels that are futuristic and secondary building in nature. There are Isak Asimov's novels about a future world full of technology. Whose favorite novels are these? Elon Musk. Elon Musk Isak Asimov. So, what does that mean? An Elon Musk made Isimov's novel an inspiration. As inspiration, yes, or films too, maybe. Well, I think when Mr. Prabo quoted from the novel, Mr. Prabo saw what was

5:23 written as appearing to be fiction. Because of this, there is a philosopher, eh physicist from Oxford named David Deut. Any analysis as long as it does not violate the laws of physics is not fiction. It may seem physical, it may seem fictional. But as long as it doesn't violate the laws of physics, it can become a reality. Hmm. Well, the question is whether it is possible that there will be a collapse of nation states in the first half of the 21st century if we look at the indicators, Ma'am, the development of artificial intelligence that is already so advanced. We've discussed generative AI before, if I'm not mistaken. He he what does generative AI mean? The task of

6:09 speaking, the task of thinking, the task of reasoning is taken over by intelligent machines. Well, maybe Mr. Prabowo saw it, and I think so too, if we honestly look at our ratings, our ranking in PISA, yes, our mathematics survey ranked 70 out of 79 countries. Our reading ability ranking is also low, our science ranking is also low. What does it mean? There is a problem with our human resources, our students' rankings in mathematics, reading and science are low in our world . Meanwhile, technology has given birth to technologies such as

6:55 generative AI. Hey. Those who can make various things, can make texts, can make theses, can make dissertations. Well, if it's like that, with our uneven education system, the quality of our teaching, and the uneven distribution of our school education infrastructure even to remote areas, there are intelligent Indonesian children in remote areas who haven't been detected, this will be a waste. Yes, if that's the case , what defense will Indonesia have when all intelligence has been taken over by machines, we will become slaves to machines. Hmm. Yes, Indonesia could collapse. Yes, there was a joke a few years ago that AI, an AI scientist named Debasabis, won the Nobel Prize in

7:40 Chemistry if I'm not mistaken. H found ee formula ee ee protein fold. There are some jokes I see there are joking comments. Maybe one day the Nobel Prize winner for Literature will be a generative AI. Yes We asked I think the duel could be done. You want to tell a story about a literature that combines the abilities of Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Pramuda Anantatur, Maksim Goruki, John Steinbck, a story about the history of Japanese society recovering from the second world war. Yes, for example, like that. Or the people of West Germany and East Germany could unite but in the style of Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Pamudianatur, John Stanbok, Masim Gorki make a novel, maybe it would be beautiful. It could be that the Nobel Prize winner for

8:26 Literature is a generative AI. Hey. Well I think Mr. Prabo predicted these kinds of situations, and today it's increasingly clear that machines' reasoning abilities and reasoning abilities are stronger. Meanwhile, regarding our education problem, there has not been any fundamental reform. Haha. Our distribution of education is also uneven. That's one example for the younger generation, for Generation Z, for Generation Alpha, what are we preparing for Indonesia to truly not collapse? Two, that is from the educational aspect, that is the economic aspect. In the midst of [snorting] that now the top 10 richest companies in the world are technology companies replacing the top 10 that were always

9:12 oil companies a few decades ago. Today the top 10 richest companies are alphabet technologies. all kinds of metals of all kinds. While we are still the rich, the economic elite seek their wealth by simply cutting down, digging and selling logs. Cut logs, sell, dig raw materials, sell. Hehe. Hehe. If you sell it and get a profit, it will then be stored abroad. That's why yesterday, Mr. Prabowo didn't have to be disciplined, there had to be one door so it was clear where the goods were sold and how much profit they would make. Well, when Mr. Prabowo said that before, in my opinion, he was predicting based on a reference that when there is

9:59 a novel scenario where the nation state will disband. I don't think it's just Indonesia . It's not just Indonesia, you know. I mean, indeed, a nation state can exist, perhaps, but as a name. Yes yes but later with the easiest away. Withing away if Mars says all that is solid mat to the air. Everything that is solid will expand into the air and evaporate. Something like that. Well, okay. Ee I want to get back to that. That's an interesting discussion in itself, right? From a social science perspective, that's also interesting. But I want to go back in so that we can continue. What's worrying is the numerator, not 2045, which is actually the critical one. Okay.

10:44 Ee what a defining moment for Indonesia. Hehe. but 2030 is not actually me when talking about Indonesia because the context of Indonesia actually involves many countries. Oh okay. Well, but there wasn't much elaboration on what was going on in that conversation. Well, in my opinion, I really want to know what the explanation is. Firstly, this is indicated by Jinping's speech when welcoming Trump. Hmm. Si Jinping said tcididis trap. Oh, it's a trap, huh. Tucidis trap. So what does this all look like ? Connect everything, connect everything, not the box what has been adapted?

11:31 It was tension. Hmm. When the established superpowers begin to be cornered by the rising superpowers. Yes Yes, Tidides said that a strong country would enforce whatever it wanted and a weak country would have to submit, whether they wanted to or not. I but with this trap, there is a power that is starting to get close. Hmm. You can imagine the excitement of MotoGP when Marc Marquez started to close in on Valentino Rossi before Valentino Rossi was alone. As soon as Marquez appeared, he was in the last lab of today. That is what tusadap is when an

12:20 established superpower like America faces a rising superpower. The superpower is already called China between Jura 1 and runner is already close I that little bit of friction will occur extraordinary. The friction is extraordinary, will this result in a collision or not? Well, there are diplomatic factors in Trump's visit yesterday that are expected to blunt the friction so that it doesn't become sharp. One. Second, the technological development factor . What makes technological development interesting? We know that in this recent era, we live in the digital era. In the digital era, America's dominance is extraordinary, right? suddenly e di di AI-nya

13:07 ya e technology companies arrived from BPET appeared from China here appeared here. Why did Trump bring tech entrepreneurs yesterday? What does that mean ? Hey I'll take you guys to a country. Hey CEO CEO Jensen Money. I will take you to a country that is most likely to take over your position. Hmm. Most likely to take over your position. So what does that mean? Trump actually wanted to say, "Let's reconcile, no need to fight over it." Whether the reconciliation is in the form of sharing algorithms, whether it is making and then making, eh, sharing AI and all that, nothing has been concluded yet. But the point is that it is part of the blunting process so that these crises do not escalate into

13:54 open conflict. Hmm. Why? Why didn't the crisis escalate into open conflict? Because ee in these decades war is what is called war. Don't imagine that maybe a war between a big country and a developing country like America against Iran might still use gunpowder. Maybe they still use gunpowder. But if the war is between countries that are equally developed, perhaps the issue is no longer killing the opponent physically, but how to fight so that the citizens of my opponent may not be killed. But I changed my mindset. Hmm. It is too risky for a country like America to want to fight against China, against Russia in a classic conventional open war . Use bullets, use bombs, use missiles. Too risky.

14:41 Human extinction. Hmm. The destruction of all is a loss. Yes, the most likely to remain superior in war. The humans, the citizens of my opponents, remain alive. Keep them alive. But I changed my mindset. That's not nuclear, man. It's not an intercontinental ballistic missile, it's not a tomahawk, it's not hypersonic . AI. Well, here we can conclude whether there are indeed new reforms and players from China who are superior or dividing up American territory with their own protocols. Which countries are willing to join America's AI protocol, which Trump initiated by

15:27 offering a US$500 billion state investment program for private technology companies? 500 billion US dollar stargate project yes to ensure America's AI remains number one in the world. Hmm. Okay, later we will look for our people, which countries want to join our AI platform, want to follow our AI model , want to follow our AI way of thinking, algorithms formulated by America's closest companies in the billion US dollar market. Eh, China came up with a cheaper dipsychic that is just as cool, the longer it is the faster it is, the cheaper it is, the better it is in math, the better it is in science, and even free. This is interesting. Hmm. Here we see a battle of ideologies,

16:14 unlike the 20th century which was full of civil wars, but full of social revolutions. The ideological battle in seeing how we want to treat AI. America 's AI, AI as a work tool, must seek massive profits. Mining data is also profitable, the tools are profitable. that's capitalism. H. In China, perhaps because it is still influenced by Marxism, socialism, the work tools are free. The new data can be profitable. If America is the tool of work, EA is looking for profit. The work target is that the processed data can also generate profits. That's capitalism. That's

16:59 capitalism. Not in China. The work tools are free and the data can generate profits. Yes This is a battle of ideologies on how to manage AI, the theology of AI. So, where's AK coming? Already occurred. Now developing countries are following China's EA because the tools are free. That means I'll give the tractor away for free. I want to profit from the tractor being used for gold mining. If America sells its tractors at a high price, I'll also sell its gold at a high price. Something like that, yeah. Now developing countries, eh, some Chinese countries can be accepted in Africa, in developing countries because the tractors are free, something like that. Well, later it will grow blocking in AIS this will cause blocking. It will

17:46 cause blocking, right? Well, there will be a conflict, there will be a cognitive war, a war of thinking through E that will not cause death, will not cause mass destruction due to nuclear war or E war using non-nuclear missiles. But humans change. Hmm. H. Well, in such a situation Indonesia will still exist, the Republic of Indonesia will still exist, the kingdom of Malaysia will still exist, Argentina, Brazil will still exist. The question is, is there something essential that is truly a country or is it just a country in name? Because there is still the red and white flag, there is still the national anthem, there is still the constitution. But the way

18:32 people think is no longer Indonesian. the country exists, the nation's way of thinking is no longer Indonesian. This is what is called disbandment, not in the physical sense, but disbandment in the sense of awareness as a nation. Hey. Hehe. I think the dissolution of nation states may not be imminent, but the irrelevance of nation states could be sooner. Hmm. Hehe. Hehe. If we don't prepare human resources . Well, that means again because eh, has the ideological conflict changed, like what Bung Budiman said earlier, then eh, the decisive moment will be in the

19:20 near future, right? 2045 is so far away, right? In the near future, 2045, the world will be reorganized in a new way. Okay. Okay. Okay. What does ee mean? There's already a new story, the script has changed, the script has changed, yeah, there, the script has changed. Hey, following the script today, following the script today, it will be collected in 2030, which script will be used, which technology standard will be used? Yes, it is in terms of software. It's not yet standard in terms of hardware. Does the chip technology have to use silicon? Yes, or do we have to use photons, light particles, or use solid materials,

20:05 ee, solid materials or light are already different, then the EA uses photons or the E uses electronics, for example, electrons, for example, that's different so then if we use strong photons, maybe rare earth will reduce the need for dependence, even though China is strong in rare earth and its EA uses photons, it doesn't need rare earth, so that means China is ready, its quantum AI uses photons, it doesn't need rare earth. But if he uses electrons, the strong one wins. The world also depends on him. Hmm. It depends because China is a country that is capable of processing rare earth elements for use. Not only for making chips, but for making AI chips, but

20:51 also for airplanes, for refrigerators, for cars and all sorts of things, for all sorts of war equipment. This means China is ready. Yes raw materials if the electrons are from rare earths or using particle light photons, they are ready too. Well, America saw that too. America saw that China was ready like this. This means that he is already very close to being a runner up. Hmm. It's really close. The hope is that there will be no clash, ee, it is possible that there will be a stable fragmentation, but there will be no open conflict between the US, between America and China. America and China are between an established superpower and a rising superpower, an established superpower and a rising superpower. I yeah yeah

21:37 something like that. Well, this is like Indonesia, where that is the follow-up question, it is interesting for us to discuss because this is 2030, it is just a matter of how many hours are left, this time ticking ticking, time ising, it is also interesting what Bung Budiman said in the podcast on Cemas, what is typical of Mr. Prabowo is what kind of disruption is happening, a reshuffling of the economic elite. I do, right ? So, when Mr. Jokowi reshuffled the political elite, it was true that there was a carpenter from Solo, but suddenly he was no longer the party chairman. Oh, it's not that they don't have a party, they're not constantly belittled or belittled, they're not military like that. Suddenly, you become president, mayor governor

22:22 theoretical president, right? That is the disruption of the political elite. Well, according to Mr. Prabowo, what happened was disruption of the economic elite. That's right. Well, can you explain it here? Ee so, so this ee what to continue the anxious chat. Yes, that's right, that's right. So, like what Bung Day said, Mr. Jokowi is indeed very typical of disrupting the political elite. This means that power must be democratized first. Power must be democratized first. Power must be opened up to the people first. Political power. Because only and in that way will the mission of the 98 reforms, the

23:10 mission of the 98 political reforms, be achieved. The symbol is a carpenter who does not form a party, has no military background, no political party background. If it's civilians, usually they're either not military or civilians with a background in political parties. This is not a military background, not during the New Order, right? Military background is not also civilian, the requirements are usually political, holding a political party or a rich businessman who is involved in politics. Mr. Prabowo is not all three of them are soldiers, Mr. Jokowi, eh, Mr. Jokowi is a soldier, not civilian, but also not a political rubber, okay, a rich businessman, not either, this is a

23:57 symbol there, Mr. Jokowi, well, it 's finished, in 2024, the story of political disruption, the reshuffling of the political elite, was actually concluded by Mr. Jokowi. Hmm. But we know that being a nation is not about power. Being a nation is also about how to serve and improve the economic welfare of the people. That's how it is. There, Mr. Prabowo, Mr. Prabowo does not symbolize the subsidy of the political elite because he also comes from a family that has been politically established for a long time. Mr. Mitro and all sorts of things don't keep people from Menteng, but Mr. Prabowo brings a unique differentiation. I am

24:42 not a symbol of the circulation of political elites, the democratization of political elites. If it's Mr. Jokowi, yes, but I want to symbolize the democratization of the economic elite. H reshuffled the economic game so that it was not only in certain entrepreneurs , not in the extractive sectors or just cut, dig and sell. But this must go to the local entrepreneurs at the provincial, district, city and village levels. Yes, that's why there is a village cooperative in Merah Putih Subdistrict. That is how to bring up a new political elite from the grassroots. One. Second, yesterday,

25:30 President Prabowo also spoke about human resource development and spoke about several established economic elites who, according to him, have achieved success. Hmm. They have succeeded in bringing Indonesian brands into the coffee business, in the instant noodle business, yes. Because the ultimate goal of success, the ultimate goal of a business's success, is when its brand, its brand becomes mainstream, becomes mainstream at the world level. Take coffee as an example, instant as an example. This means that he is not anti- existing economic elite. What he is against is the economic elite who are lazy about building their

26:18 own brand, lazy about building their own IP. and lazy to innovate, whose life is only from digging, cutting selling digging selling. That's what Mr. Prabowo doesn't like. Forget it, if it's just about seeking wealth from mining our natural resources, selling logs, cutting down our natural resources , selling logs, that's a state matter. Hmm. H one door. Because the state will make it downstream first, industrialize it first as a one-stop shop. The direction is clear. Please innovate, where do you sell it ? Report. But you have to innovate. Mr.

27:03 Budiman, it's interesting that ee about the disruption of the economic elite, right? Mr. Budiman also discusses a lot about ee what is the global landscape, ee geopolitics, geoeconomics and so on. So, how can it be explained in baby language, as they say nowadays ? Hehe. Hey, what is Mr. Prabowo's or Prabowo's or whatever's the strategy choice in this economic matter? Hehe. Why is it relevant for Indonesia? Hehe. Indonesia has burgering power in palm oil, has burgering power in coal. Yes, right ? It turns out that palm oil can be used for medicine, for health, for food, and for cosmetics. It is a necessity. We have

27:49 that material on our own land. Coal is also today there is an energy crisis everywhere. Yes, if we sell the logs and then the price is determined by a foreign country, we won't get the margin. It's always Singapore that gets it. Well, we want to determine our own price. we determine the price, we have a door to the stall to sell it, what is the name of the kiosk to sell it, it must be in Indonesia, don't send it to Singapore, then Singapore sells it, people buy it from there, take it back to Indonesia. and we determine the price. It's not someone else who determines the price, it's not the broker who determines the price. Ee is not a middleman who determines the price inwardly to be thrown into the market.

28:34 But Indonesia is the producer itself, the nation that produces the land, the palm oil, the stone products and all sorts of things. If we look at this, Bung, there are red and white village cooperatives in the villages. Hmm. And there is one door to sell our internal resources. Actually the logic is the same. The sales location and production location must be under one roof. The Mar Putih Village Cooperative as a distributor must be close to farmers, close to fishermen and fishermen and farmers must become members of the Murah Putih Village Cooperative . So they are the producers who determine the selling price of the ee goods that they produce themselves in their cooperative. Indonesia, our gardens,

29:20 our coal mines, yes, just under one roof, the place of sale in Indonesia is determined by us, not entrusted to other countries. Hmm. Well, why are we going straight to it? We want to get one foreign exchange. Second, if they don't want to, then we can use it for our processing. There is palm oil downstreaming, for example, for various products and then obtaining extraordinary added value . The question is, why is that choice important? Hmm. I think Mr. Prabo also emphasized that it's not just about palm oil but also about food in times of crisis when there's global tension, especially when there's a pandemic, or perhaps the threat of an economic crisis, the threat of famine. What happens?

30:07 Countries with natural resources tend to lock the doors to their exports, to provide for their own people. to provide for my own people because the people need to eat. Yes, we do get a profit if we sell. But if there is a crisis, a good parent, even though he sells delicious fried rice, can make a profit when sold, but when a crisis occurs, a good parent will prioritize his rice to feed his children. Because of what? There is a threat of crisis. H due to war, due to economic crisis, due to pandemic crisis. Because that possibility will always be there, right? There

30:55 will be a technological crisis as well as disruption. Because the disruptive technology crisis can also cause many people to lose their jobs, right? And that could lead to a social crisis. Social crises can also have an impact on political economic crises and can cause tension. There is a temptation from developed countries to intervene in order to shape the country in crisis to suit their tastes and that will provoke other super powers to balance and finally tension will arise conflict which was previously a social conflict at the local level can become a national conflict can become a regional conflict like that i i i like that when the country in crisis is a country that is then very much relied upon by certain super powers to be a supplier of

31:40 Islamic natural resources. When a social crisis occurs, there is bailout intervention from other countries, then finally the regime changes. Then he sided with this super power , finally that super power could no longer get troops from these natural resources. That's what happened with Iran and China, Iran and America, and it happened with Venezuela. The oil president was kidnapped, then the oil troops stopped, that's what it seems like. It has had all sorts of consequences for Cuba . This is spreading, man. Well, in such a situation, as a strategist, as a geopolitical expert, Mr. Prabowo understands that Indonesia is too big to be ignored. Indonesia is a country that is too rich not to be fought over. Indonesia is too strategic not to be pulled to the right, not to be pulled to the left. Yes, we ca n't possibly be ignored, man, as a country this big

32:25 . Well, because we can't be ignored, they care about us whether it's positive or negative, eh we have to be alert. It's like this afternoon, maybe it's a bit gender biased, bro. Have cute kids, whether they are boys or girls. You have to be careful, man. Yeah, you have to be careful, man. Meanwhile there are a lot of [laughs] Tata Girang or playboys there, right? Have to be careful with this. Eh, my children are being targeted . Is not it . There will be another hunt soon, right? These people are hunting, you have to be careful, my child, don't just be pretty, don't just be smart, practice martial arts, my child, don't just be handsome, practice martial arts, what kind of training, like fighting training, let's

33:10 get together, let's work, so if you don't get disturbed when you play, you won't become the object of sexual harassment, that's more or less what Mr. Prabuo is like. Now see the world is in turmoil again. Well, these years were indeed very hot years because the runner up was close, eh, China, so it created a situation of tusides trap, a tidaides trap when Athens was too established with its power being rivaled by Sparta. That's about it . Approximately now America and China are like that and if Sparta and Athens go to war then the other power will benefit. So it's better if we just become partners. JPing's offer is like that, right? Something like that. Well, but we shouldn't see this as something that was said. This means Jim is giving a warning.

33:56 H when we talk we are friends, no need to fight. A strategist will not see the statement that we should just be friends , no need to fight. A strategist would see, "Oh, that means there's potential for a fight." A strategist would say, "Okay, since there's going to be a potential big fight, a big fight, let's prepare for it." Everyone said they were all looking for their own safety. What do we have, rice, nickel, palm oil, something like that, food security, energy security, and what kind of resilience, human resources, that is part of the effort because Mr. Prabowo sees that the world is in a situation like that, a

34:42 transitional situation, right, so we need to prioritize this first, we have to be independent here first so that no matter how critical the crisis is, we have a stock of rice. Okay. Yes Now. Ah, this is also interesting, man. There are also many who say that in fact many people agree with Mr Prabowo's choice. Regarding the emphasis on the importance of EE independence and the affirmation of the importance of resilience in food, energy and human resources, yes. Hehe. The only problem is that in terms of ee the English expression the devil is in the detail. Okay. That's right. Hehe. So this is in terms of the implementation of operationalization, how the concepts are

35:29 brought down to the EE level, what are the applications in the field, maybe that's what makes many people disappointed or then feel like there are many things that are not handled, what is it about, what is it about, for example, the implementation of MBG, for example, part of the resilience of human resources, it's the implementation that becomes a problem, right? Okay. What do you think, Mr. Budiman? The devil is in the details. That's right. The devil is in the details. Mr. Prabowo is not just about making things run smoothly. Mr. Prabowo is trying to say that we must do the

36:15 right thing, not just do something right. Okay. Doing something right and doing something right are two different things. Doing something that is right can be doing the wrong thing right. In the right way. For example, we both conspired to rob and succeeded in robbing, but the method was good and successful, right? That's roughly what doing something wrong does right. Yes We've been doing things right for a long time. Hmm. What does it mean? so the devil is in the details, but the devil is in the grand idea. Oh okay.

37:02 The devil is in the details, but the devil is [laughs] in the big idea. Yes Yes So, Pak Prabowo is dealing with the devil, [clears throat] Ma'am, I haven't dealt with the devil yet. We are already used to the problem of how it is implemented. E, wait, wait wait wait wait wait wait. Wait. A moment. You want this done right? Yes. Okay. But do you realize that we have to do something right first before doing something right. Well, in less than 2 years , Mr. Prabowo has again emphasized something true. The right thing to do is to reshuffle the economic tools first. Okay. Democratize the means of production first. Democratize first by changing from a corporation to a cooperative. Rich people shouldn't just be

37:49 spoiled by cutting and digging and selling R&D, lead banks, research innovation fighting for brands at a global level, that's what's right. So, Mr. Prabowo is inviting us to think correctly. Hmm. When Mr. Prabo and to get people to think correctly, it takes time, man. people who are doing something right incorrectly. Hmm. Those deviations that are poisoning, corruption, must be dealt with. The proof is that 3,000 nutrition service units have been closed. Hmm. 3,000 gas stations have closed. Because these people are doing something right and wrong.

38:36 Yes, it is done. But for those who type some of the implementers are not properly open [snort] the proof is that Mr. President is closed. But the problem is that this is a mix-up between those who think Mr. Prabowo did something wrong and they are attacking him, not whether Mr. Prabowo did something right or wrong. Okay, that's okay yeah . But some concluded that Mr. Prabowo had to fall in the middle of the road because Mr. Prabowo did something wrong by rightly assuming that the program would provide free nutrition. Moreover, the

39:21 people's school program and the Red and White Village cooperative program are considered as pork barrel politics . Hehe. Yes, it's strange again. The pork barrel thing became controversial, became problematic because it was done by the legislature. If the executive is not hanging a pig, it is implementing a policy, right? If the legislature is not a policy maker, law makers, if the executive is a policy maker, they implement it, oh, being labeled as hanging a pig, what does that mean? Some of the criticism that then led to the downfall of Mr. Prabowo was attacked because Mr. Prabowo was considered to have done something wrong with the right, but if they considered Mr. Prabo to have done something right, right with the wrong, we

40:07 accept the evidence that 3,000 SPPGs were closed. Well, we have to differentiate between them. So criticism on devils yes. But Mr. Prabowo is at war with the devil first, not with little devils. Well, some people think that Mr. Prabowo is fighting the devil, while others think that Mr. Prabowo is fighting angels. Well, that's how it is. This is different again. This is different again. So, we have to separate. separate where? So ee most of these media appear we have to separate them. Something like that, yeah. I Bung Budiman, this is the final part of our conversation. Mr. Budiman himself, how do you see Mr. Prabowo's speech yesterday, which was linked to the previous one about concerns about 2030

40:54 when deciding whether Indonesia will continue or disband. What do you think about I? Yes, as I said earlier, Mr. Prabowo's speech yesterday was like a condensed moment, this was the President's first speech in a plenary session of the DPR. Okay. DPR, not MPR. That's why the chairperson is Ms. Puan, not Mr. Muzani who leads it, right? First, usually in front of Mr. If the chairman of the MPR is Mr. Muzani, this is in front of the first Chairman of the DPR RI, if not the first to come out, a president. What does it mean? Yesterday, Mr. Prabowo seemed to be reading a manifesto. Oh no, what Pak Prabo said is actually nothing new. He has said this for a long time, and in his campaign too. But what's new here?

41:40 Hmm. What's new here is that the first forum is of course the DPR. Okay. The Speaker of the DPR happens to be from a party that is not with the government. Ma'am, sir, yesterday you mentioned the PDI Perjuangan. Yes Yes, although because I have been in the PDI Perjuangan for a long time, I actually want to say that this is my interpretation, it is not official. That's not what Mr. Prabowo wants. In my interpretation, I am an old hand at PD Perjuangan and now a subordinate of Mr Prabowo. Mr. Prabu just wants to talk about this Buupuan, what I said is actually what Mbak Puan's grandfather thinks. Hmm. Hmm. That's how I interpret it. And if I read the president's speech yesterday,

42:26 I see that Mr. Prabowo is like a 21st-century Indonesian marauder. And he spoke in front of Mrs. Puan and expressively also called Mrs. Mega wanting to say, "Mrs. Puan, your grandfather is too big. You just belong to one group. I fluently translated what our first President said. This is the reading between the two according to the interpretation of Budiman Sujak Niko who comes from a PNI family and has been in PD Perjuangan for a long time, right? So, Mr. Bro said that

43:12 Bung Karno's thoughts were ideological. Our task is to find the right methodology from his ideology and then find the right technology to implement it. So that the ideology of Ajar Bungkaro does not just become mythology. Hm. But given a methodology. Given a methodology so that the strategy is scientific. Given the technology so that it can be implemented in the field. And the methodology, the technology, Mr. Prabowo spoke yesterday about monitoring corruption using technology, even being able to sense natural resources below. Bung Karno, there was a statement yesterday, Mr. Prabowo, which was very Soekarno and felt explicitly verbatim, carried out

43:58 by Bung Karno, the Bung Karno in the 60s sent young Indonesians to study technology at that time in many blocks. East in the Soviet Union. Okay. Okay. There are mining experts who, after 65, were mostly stuck outside. Yes, outside. Bung Karno said let's bury our natural resources until the young people who were sent to study in Eastern Europe return with the technology to manage our natural resources. Bung Karno said that. H. Okay. Word for word. Did you know that yesterday, Mr. Prabowo said that at the DPR forum. If those people don't want to buy at the price we set, let those natural resources remain underground

44:43 for our children to clean up later. When Bung Karno once said the red jacket, never forget history. Mr. Prabowo in his speech before the DPR forum, the chairman of the DPR is the grandson of the person who once said the red jacket. Mr. Prabo said I have n't forgotten history, as conveyed by Ibu Puhan's grandfather. Hm. Who is the recipient of this nation. Bung Karno's words and Mr. Prabowo's words are the same. If in the past, because there was no technology, save it until one day we are able to manage it. K. Prabowo said that they didn't want to buy at the price we set Because we are the ones who decide whether we process it ourselves or save it if we are not yet able for our children and grandchildren in the future.

45:30 This is a shame that is not exposed enough. But actually, this is a statement that I think for patriotic people throughout Indonesia, I must realize the conclusion there. In the end, what? In 2030, we had our discussion last time, yes, what is hedging power, protective power, secondly, bargaining power, and ultimately, we have deterrent power, deterrent power, protective power, bargaining power, deterrent power. Well, Mr. Prabowo made all of that into hedging power, bargaining power, and deterrent power. Okay, so this is

46:16 the end of 2030, what makes Indonesia pass the test and what makes Indonesia fail? My statement earlier, do the right thing correctly, criticism that some are not the right thing is not done correctly, accepted Mr. Prabowo has closed 3000 SPPGs and perhaps other criticisms will also be heard. But never be busy fighting evil in the details. But we forget that there is a demon, there is an evil. Not demons in the details but there is a big devil. Demon is not Mr. Prabowo

47:01 is fighting a demon, not locking up evil Not yet. Evil is also taken care of. Evil is also taken care of. Evil is also taken care of. The devil. The devil is also taken care of. But the demon is being fought first. The devil is being fought because Mr. Prabowo wants to do something right. Defeating the devil, we can do something right. Defeating the devil, the demon, we do something right. Mr. Prabowo is taking care of this first because some of his attackers who want to bring him down think that Mr. Prabowo is fighting an angel when in fact it's a demon. Something like that. Okay, [laughs] this discussion is slowly becoming philosophical, or so this is a bit like a bit not philosophical, what is it, uh, what is it called [laughs], ecstatic.

47:51 Okay. Is there anything else that needs to be said according to Bung Budiman in the closing statement about, eh, what is Mr. Prabowo's relationship with disruption, okay the economy, or the economic elite, or is Mr. Jokowi changing the political elite? Okay, Mr. Prabowo is changing the economy. The big task of our nation if we want to become a developed country one day is to change the elite, reshuffle the intellectual elite. Hmm. Because of what? Science is developing So. Economists cannot just base their thinking on the theory of scarcity, which says that if supply is high, demand is high, prices become expensive. If supply is low,

48:36 demand is low, demand is high, prices become expensive, or if supply is high, demand is low, prices become cheap. No. We have entered an era where technology has brought us to an era of abundance. Hmm. The basic principles of the shahada of economics must be replaced. There is no more scarcity, there is abundance, it must be overhauled too. The way of thinking, for example, economists based on scarcity must be replaced with one based on abundance based on information because of technology, for example, especially about that interesting thing about scar cities because that is the basis of Carl Marx's theory about conflicts also because of scar cities, right? Not all economists, Adam Smith, want Carmarx, the

49:21 basis is in the industrial revolution, scarcity is still okay okay but Karmax also wrote in the book Green Rise that at some point there will be a gap when society reaches what is called general intelligence. Marx once talked about a time when society reaches the point of general intelligence. Now that artificial intelligence has emerged, artificial general intelligence might be somewhat similar, perhaps different, with the assumption that there will no longer be scarcity and abundance. If people are abundant, if technology has created abundance, human tasks will make it equal right? Okay, that's one. Second, yes, one day, our paradigm of thinking, as Thomas Kun said, will see a paradigmatic revolution in science. When times change, tools change,

50:09 innovation occurs, there must be an intellectual paradigmatic shift, and we must also educate educators. There are political elites, economic elites, and intellectual elites. Yes, because we are entering a new era, man. 2030 or so. Not 2045. By 2045, the world will have been redefined, all the houses will have been established . We're just planning to move house. Oh, all the houses have been parceled out . Who's the winner? Who's the superpower? Who owns this technology? Who owns this patent? Who's in charge? We're just being cursed. Where's the house? Eh, 2045 is already over, man . 2030, why

50:55 not hurry up? Well, Mr. Prabowo is preparing for that. Okay, thank you, Mrs. Budiman, for the discussion, viewers. That's all for now. We'll see you again in the next episode. Thank you. Yeah.