Brief Summary
This interview with Ivan Kurilla, a historian and Americanist, explores the complex relationship between Russia and the United States. Kurilla discusses various historical events, cultural differences, and political dynamics, offering insights into the current state of affairs and potential future developments. Key takeaways include:
- The US and Russia share a history of interconnectedness, despite their differences.
- The US has a strong tradition of religious faith and traditional values, despite its reputation for liberalism.
- American universities play a crucial role in shaping the nation's elite and fostering social mobility.
- The US has a history of rewriting its history, often from different perspectives based on race and ethnicity.
- The US has a unique system of presidential elections that involves both popular vote and Electoral College.
- The US has a strong tradition of freedom of speech, but it is increasingly challenged by cancel culture.
- The US has a history of intervening in other countries' affairs, often citing the pursuit of freedom and democracy.
- The US and Russia share a history of both cooperation and conflict, with their relationship currently at a low point.
Bowdoin College
The interview takes place at Bowdoin College in Brunswick, Maine, a prestigious private institution with a long history. Kurilla teaches the history of Russia-United States relations at the college, attracting students interested in foreign relations and Russian culture. He explains the college's admissions process, which prioritizes academic merit over financial status, and its scholarship program, which provides financial aid to students from underprivileged backgrounds.
Moving to the US
Kurilla discusses the various visa options available for individuals seeking to move to the US, including talent visas, entrepreneur visas, and investor visas. He highlights the services offered by Migrator, a company that assists individuals with the visa application process, ensuring they meet the necessary requirements and providing support throughout the process.
Paying for College
Kurilla explains the scholarship system at Bowdoin College, emphasizing that students from underprivileged backgrounds are given priority for financial aid. He defends this policy, arguing that it helps to address historical inequalities and provides opportunities for those who might otherwise not have access to higher education.
The Reverse Dulles' Plan
Kurilla debunks the myth of the Dulles' Plan, a fake doctrine used to frighten Soviet and Russian people about American intentions. He reveals that a similar fake doctrine, the Communist Revolution Plan, was circulated in the US, blaming communists for internal problems and promoting fear of foreign influence.
Avoiding Censorship
Kurilla discusses the increasing censorship of the internet in Russia, highlighting the potential for YouTube and other platforms to be blocked. He recommends Naruzhu VPN, a service that allows users to access both Russian and foreign websites without restrictions, ensuring fast and secure internet access.
Teaching American Students
Kurilla shares his experience teaching American students about Russia-United States relations. He explains that his students have diverse motivations for studying Russia, ranging from personal interest to a desire to understand foreign relations. He also discusses the importance of engaging students with interesting and relevant topics, such as Slavic demonology, to foster their curiosity and encourage deeper learning.
CIA and Doctor Zhivago
Kurilla addresses the claim that the CIA was involved in publishing Boris Pasternak's novel "Doctor Zhivago." He explains that the CIA, along with other US government agencies, invested in studying the Soviet Union during the Cold War, including funding research on Russian culture and literature. However, he emphasizes that this funding did not necessarily influence the work of scholars or authors.
Kent State Shooting
Kurilla recounts the tragic Kent State shooting of 1970, where National Guard troops fired on unarmed student protesters, killing four and injuring nine. He explains the context of the shooting, which occurred during the height of anti-war protests against the Vietnam War, and the subsequent investigation that led to the indictment of the troops involved.
Vietnam War Protests
Kurilla discusses the reasons behind the relatively late start of anti-war protests in the US, highlighting the lack of information about the war's true nature and the initial support for the war among some civil rights activists. He explains how the Tet Offensive of 1968, a major turning point in the war, shifted public opinion and led to widespread protests.
Brodsky and the Vietnam War
Kurilla clarifies a misconception about Joseph Brodsky's stance on the Vietnam War. He explains that Brodsky, while living in the Soviet Union, did not actually support the war but rather expressed a cynical view of American involvement. He emphasizes that Brodsky's perspective was shaped by his experience as a Soviet dissident and his belief in the US as a guarantor of freedom.
Women's Colleges
Kurilla discusses the history of women's colleges in the US, explaining that they were founded in response to the historical exclusion of women from higher education. He acknowledges that some view these colleges as archaic and discriminatory, but he argues that they provide a valuable space for women to thrive and overcome historical inequalities.
Traditional Values in America
Kurilla challenges the perception of America as a purely liberal society, highlighting the strong influence of religious faith and traditional values. He explains that the US has a long history of religious revivalism and that these values continue to shape social norms and attitudes towards issues like marriage and family.
Universities in America
Kurilla praises American university campuses as one of the best things about America, highlighting their vibrant atmosphere, access to resources, and role in fostering social mobility. He explains how American universities have evolved from relatively poor institutions to centers of knowledge and innovation, playing a crucial role in shaping the nation's elite and providing opportunities for individuals from all backgrounds.
Rewriting History in America
Kurilla discusses the ongoing debate about the interpretation of American history, particularly regarding the Civil War and the legacy of slavery. He explains how the changing demographics of the US, particularly the growing influence of African Americans, have led to a re-examination of the past and a recognition of the need for a more inclusive and nuanced understanding of historical events.
McCarthyism
Kurilla explains the phenomenon of McCarthyism, a period of intense anti-communist paranoia in the US during the early 1950s. He describes how Senator Joseph McCarthy's accusations of communist infiltration in government and Hollywood led to widespread fear and persecution, ultimately damaging his own reputation and leading to his downfall.
Russian Emigrants in the US
Kurilla highlights the contributions of lesser-known Russian emigrants to American society, including Irving Berlin, the composer of "God Bless America," and Nikolay Sudzilovsky, a Russian doctor who served as the head of the Hawaiian Senate. He emphasizes that America has always been a nation of immigrants, with many individuals from diverse backgrounds making significant contributions to its culture and development.
Melting Pot vs. Salad Bowl
Kurilla discusses the evolving concept of American identity, from the "melting pot" model, which aimed to assimilate immigrants into a homogenous culture, to the "salad bowl" model, which celebrates diversity and encourages individuals to retain their cultural identities. He argues that the melting pot concept is outdated and that the US is now embracing a more inclusive and multicultural approach.
Working in the US
Kurilla explains his decision to work in the US, citing the challenging political climate in Russia and the pressure he faced for his anti-war stance. He shares his experience of being fired from his position in Russia and the difficulties he encountered in finding a permanent job due to his reputation.
Learning English in the USSR
Kurilla recounts his experience learning English in the USSR using an intensive method that emphasized speaking from the very beginning. He describes the unique classroom environment and the techniques used to create a relaxed and immersive learning experience, which helped him overcome his initial fear of speaking a foreign language.
Khodorkovsky's List
Kurilla discusses his inclusion on Mikhail Khodorkovsky's list of potential replacements for Vladimir Putin. He shares his initial anxiety about being on the list but ultimately dismisses it as a joke, highlighting the different ways in which the list was perceived in Russia and the US.
Russian Center at Bowdoin
Kurilla discusses the Russian Culture Center at Bowdoin College, which has recently been renamed to reflect a broader focus on Eastern European and Eurasian studies. He highlights the diverse range of courses offered, including Russian language, literature, history, and political science, and emphasizes the importance of engaging students with interesting and relevant topics to foster their curiosity and encourage deeper learning.
Zbigniew Brzezinski
Kurilla discusses Zbigniew Brzezinski, a prominent American political advisor who is often portrayed as an enemy of Russia. He challenges this simplistic view, arguing that Brzezinski had a more nuanced understanding of Russia and that his actions were driven by a desire to restore American leadership after the Vietnam War and Watergate scandal.
American Influence on Russia
Kurilla discusses the historical influence of American technology and engineering on Russia, highlighting the role of American engineers in building railroads, factories, and other infrastructure projects. He explains that the US has a strong desire to be seen as a global leader and that sharing its knowledge and technology is a way of demonstrating its power and influence.
US Aid During the Russian Famine
Kurilla discusses the US's provision of aid to the Soviet Union during the famine of the 1920s. He explains that the US, despite its ideological differences with the USSR, recognized the humanitarian crisis and provided assistance through the American Relief Administration (ARA). He highlights the importance of this act of generosity and its role in shaping the US's image as a global leader.
US Foreign Policy
Kurilla discusses the US's tendency to intervene in other countries' affairs, often citing the pursuit of freedom and democracy. He argues that this approach is often driven by a desire to maintain American dominance and project its power onto the world stage. He also highlights the internal challenges facing the US, such as the growing political divide between Republicans and Democrats, which contribute to the country's foreign policy decisions.
Whataboutism
Kurilla discusses the phenomenon of "whataboutism," a rhetorical tactic used to deflect criticism by pointing out similar actions by others. He argues that while whataboutism is often seen as a flawed argument, it can also be a valid critique of hypocrisy and double standards in international relations.
Uncle Tom's Cabin
Kurilla discusses Harriet Beecher Stowe's novel "Uncle Tom's Cabin," which was written in Brunswick, Maine. He explains the book's immense impact on the abolitionist movement and its role in shaping public opinion about slavery. He also highlights the book's international reach, particularly in Russia, where it resonated with those who were fighting against serfdom.
Genocide of Native Americans
Kurilla discusses the historical treatment of Native Americans in the US, acknowledging the tragic loss of indigenous populations and the ongoing debate about whether this constitutes genocide. He explains that while Canada has officially recognized the genocide of its indigenous people, the US has not, despite the use of the term by activists.
Abolition of Slavery
Kurilla discusses the abolition of slavery in Russia and the US, highlighting the timing of these events and their potential connection. He explains that while the US abolished slavery after the Civil War, the slaves were not given land or compensation, leaving them in a precarious position. He also discusses Lenin's view of the American Civil War and his belief that the slaves' fight for freedom made them more free than Russian serfs.
US Elections
Kurilla explains the US system of presidential elections, which involves both popular vote and the Electoral College. He highlights the complexities of this system, including the winner-take-all approach in most states and the potential for faithless electors. He also discusses the role of swing states in presidential campaigns and the challenges of having only two major political parties.
Cancel Culture
Kurilla discusses the phenomenon of cancel culture in the US, acknowledging its potential to stifle freedom of speech. He argues that while cancel culture is a complex issue with no easy answers, it is important to uphold the principles of due process and the presumption of innocence.
Russia-US Relations
Kurilla discusses the current state of Russia-US relations, acknowledging the deep mistrust and animosity that exists between the two countries. He expresses hope that the relationship can improve, citing historical precedents for reconciliation and the shared desire for a more stable and peaceful world.
What is Power?
Kurilla concludes the interview by reflecting on the nature of power. He argues that true power lies in the ability to resist those who are stronger and to persevere in the face of adversity. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining one's own sense of agency and purpose, even when faced with seemingly insurmountable challenges.
