Brief Summary
This podcast episode features a conversation with Michael Paulson, better known as ThePrimeagen, a legendary programmer with an inspiring life story. ThePrimeagen shares his love for programming, the hardest parts of it, and his personal journey overcoming addiction and hardship. He also discusses different types of programming, the importance of perseverance, and his views on AI and its impact on the future of programming.
- ThePrimeagen's love for programming stems from his early experiences with linked lists and recursive functions.
- He believes that the hardest part of programming is when you already know the solution and there's no challenge left.
- He emphasizes the importance of hard work and perseverance, arguing that "work hard, get smart" is a better motto than "work smart, not hard."
- He shares his concerns about the potential negative impacts of AI on the future of programming, but also sees its potential to democratize the field and make it more accessible.
Introduction
The episode begins with Lex Fridman introducing Michael Paulson, better known as ThePrimeagen, a programmer who has entertained and inspired millions of people to have fun building software. Lex highlights ThePrimeagen's legendary status in the programming world and his inspiring life story.
Love for programming
ThePrimeagen recounts his first experience with programming, which involved learning about linked lists in college. He was blown away by the concept of a data structure that could hold an infinite number of items, and it sparked his passion for programming. He also shares his experience with the Decorator pattern, which further solidified his belief that anything is possible with programming.
Hardest part of programming
ThePrimeagen identifies the absence of uncertainty and challenge as the most painful aspect of programming. He recalls a job where he felt bored because he already knew everything about the codebase and there were no surprises. He believes that the worst part of programming is when you already know the solution and it's just a matter of typing it out.
Types of programming
ThePrimeagen discusses the different types of programming, emphasizing that the web programming world is just a small part of the larger picture. He identifies himself as a "tools engineer," someone who enjoys building tools for developers to be successful. He has worked on various projects, from UI libraries to build systems, and he finds satisfaction in building things that help developers do their jobs better.
Life story
ThePrimeagen shares his personal life story, starting from his childhood experiences with pornography and the death of his father. He describes how these events shaped his early years and led to struggles with addiction and social awkwardness. He also talks about his experience with drugs, including LSD and meth, and how he eventually found God and made a decision to change his life.
Hardship
ThePrimeagen reflects on the pain he experienced losing his father at a young age. He describes it as a feeling of longing and a desire for approval, which he sought in various ways throughout his life.
High school
ThePrimeagen shares his experience with high school, which he describes as brutal and filled with social awkwardness. He was picked on and felt out of place, but he encourages listeners to remember that high school is just a small part of life and that the people they are surrounded by now will not be as consequential in the long run. He advises listeners to take risks and try new things, as high school is a time to experiment and learn.
Porn addiction
ThePrimeagen discusses his struggle with porn addiction, which he describes as one of the hardest addictions to overcome. He attributes this difficulty to the lack of societal support for quitting porn compared to other addictions. He also talks about the negative impact porn can have on one's view of women and devalues humanity in general. He emphasizes the importance of finding meaning and value in relationships and intimacy rather than seeking them through fleeting sexual encounters.
God
ThePrimeagen describes his experience with God, which he says was a turning point in his life. He felt a deep presence of God and made a conscious decision to change his life. He attributes this experience to a newfound sense of shame and a desire to stop using drugs and pornography.
Perseverance
ThePrimeagen recounts his struggle with pre-calculus, which he failed multiple times before finally succeeding. He attributes his success to his determination to win and his willingness to put in the hours. He emphasizes that there is no substitute for hard work and that perseverance is key to overcoming challenges.
Netflix
ThePrimeagen shares his experience working at Netflix, where he spent 10 years building tools for developers. He describes the company's culture and the challenges of working in a fast-paced environment. He also discusses the technical stack at Netflix, including Groovy, and his experience with a bug that caused a denial of service attack.
Groovy
ThePrimeagen explains that Groovy is a JVM language that was used at Netflix. He describes it as an interesting language, but not necessarily a powerful one. He shares a story about how he accidentally broke staging by using Groovy's RX implementation, which turned out to be not multi-threaded as he had assumed.
Printf() debugging
ThePrimeagen discusses his skill at print debugging, which he developed through early experiences working on robots for the government. He explains that print debugging is a valuable skill for understanding complex codebases and identifying bugs.
Falcor
ThePrimeagen shares a story about how he discovered a bug in Falcor, Netflix's data fetching library. This bug, known as the "Repulsive Grizzly Attack," could have caused a denial of service attack on Netflix. He explains the nature of the bug and how it could have been exploited.
Breaking production
ThePrimeagen recounts several times he has broken production at Netflix, including a time he caused a bug that froze the homepage during a Lady Gaga video release. He also discusses the pros and cons of pushing to production without extensive testing, referencing Pieter Levels' approach to development.
Pieter Levels
ThePrimeagen discusses Pieter Levels' approach to development, which involves pushing to production without extensive testing. He acknowledges that this approach can be effective for solo developers working on small projects, but it would be disastrous for larger companies like Netflix.
Netflix, Twitch, and YouTube infrastructure
ThePrimeagen discusses the incredible infrastructure required to deliver services like Netflix, Twitch, and YouTube. He highlights the challenges of caching data, delivering new content quickly, and managing user-generated content. He argues that Netflix has a fundamentally easier problem than YouTube and Twitch because they have more control over the content they deliver.
ThePrimeagen origin story
ThePrimeagen explains the origin of his name, which comes from the final boss in the video game Turoc 2. He chose this name because he felt it represented his rebellious spirit and his desire to challenge the status quo in the tech world.
Learning programming languages
ThePrimeagen discusses his approach to learning new programming languages. He has tried various methods, including building projects from scratch and reading language references. He believes that both methods are valuable, but ultimately, the best way to learn a language is to build something with it.
Best programming languages in 2025
ThePrimeagen discusses the best programming languages to learn, arguing that the best choice depends on what you want to achieve. He recommends exploring both loosey-goosey languages like Python and JavaScript, as well as strict languages like Rust and Go. He also shares his personal interest in learning languages like Swift, Elixir, and OCaml.
Python
ThePrimeagen highlights Python as a great choice for data-related projects and machine learning. He acknowledges that Python libraries often rely on C++ or C underneath the hood.
HTML & CSS
ThePrimeagen discusses HTML and CSS, arguing that they are not programming languages in the traditional sense. He believes that while they can be Turing complete, they are more like specifications for how a webpage should look and behave.
Bash
ThePrimeagen expresses his fondness for Bash, but acknowledges that it's not a true programming language. He emphasizes the importance of being comfortable with the command line, as it can be a powerful tool.
FFmpeg
ThePrimeagen praises FFmpeg, a powerful library for working with media codecs and containers. He believes that FFmpeg is one of the most consequential libraries of our time and that it deserves more recognition.
Performance
ThePrimeagen discusses the importance of performance in programming and highlights the competition between languages like Zig, Rust, and C++. He believes that Zig is an interesting language because it offers a balance between safety and performance.
Rust
ThePrimeagen discusses Rust, a language that emphasizes performance, type safety, and concurrency. He praises Rust's unique borrow checker, which helps prevent memory leaks and null pointer dereferencing.
Epic projects
ThePrimeagen shares his favorite project he built on stream, which involved creating a Go program that allowed Twitch chat to control an instance of Doom running in the browser. He describes the technical challenges of compressing the Ascii art and sending it to thousands of viewers simultaneously.
Asserts
ThePrimeagen discusses the importance of asserts in programming. He explains that asserts can help catch bugs early and make debugging easier. He shares his experience with deterministic simulation testing, which involves running a program with random data to identify potential issues.
ADHD
ThePrimeagen discusses his experience with ADHD and how he has learned to manage it. He attributes his ability to focus on programming to his passion for the field and his emotional resilience. He also acknowledges the support he receives from his wife, who helps him manage the aspects of life that are more challenging for him.
Productivity
ThePrimeagen discusses his approach to productivity in programming. He emphasizes the importance of learning your tools well, including your editor and keyboard layout. He believes that by minimizing the amount of mental effort required to perform basic tasks, you can free up your brainpower to focus on solving problems.
Programming setup
ThePrimeagen describes his ideal programming setup, which includes a Kinesis Advantage keyboard, a single monitor, and a yoga ball for sitting. He explains his preference for a single monitor and his use of keyboard shortcuts to navigate between different applications and files. He also discusses his use of Neovim and his preference for Vim motions.
Coffee
ThePrimeagen shares the origin story of Terminal Coffee, a coffee company he co-founded with TJ DeV. He explains that the idea came from a desire to create a product that was both fun and ethical. Terminal Coffee can only be ordered through SSH, which adds a layer of humor and exclusivity to the experience.
Programming with AI
ThePrimeagen discusses his views on AI and its impact on programming. He believes that AI is effective for predictable tasks, but it struggles with unpredictable or cutting-edge problems. He shares his experience with GitHub Copilot and how he has learned to use AI as a tool for editing and improving code. He also discusses the importance of prompt engineering and the need to understand AI's limitations.
Advice for young programmers
ThePrimeagen offers advice to young programmers, emphasizing the importance of finding joy in programming and developing a love for the craft. He encourages them to explore different languages and tools, but also to prioritize their health, relationships, and morals. He believes that the best programmers are those who are passionate about their work and willing to put in the hours.
Reddit questions
ThePrimeagen answers a few random questions from Reddit, including his opinion on Microsoft products, his thoughts on the role of love in the human condition, and his experience with the "ligma" meme.
God
ThePrimeagen discusses his relationship with God, which he says has been a significant part of his life. He describes how his experience with God led to a newfound sense of forgiveness and a change in his perspective on life. He believes that love is a fundamental part of the human experience and that it is essential for forgiveness and happiness.
