Vedanta Retreat at Loon Lake on Who Am I by Swami Sarvapriyananda Lecture 3

0:16 lead us from the unreal to the real from Darkness unto light lead us from death to immortality oh peace peace peace now let us begin with that little meditation it's the 24th verse I'll just recite it and then we'll have a little meditation

1:04 every thought that comes into my mind good thought bad thought religious thought not particularly religious thought does not matter the examples it gives desire or greed or anger or holy thoughts or calmness or Peace of Mind whatever comes to my mind let me use that to become aware that I am the witness of that thought don't try to be the witness of that thought just recognize the fact that you are the witness of that thought after all in whose light is that thought shining you are the Consciousness in which the thought arises and then go to the second stage

1:52 having become aware of yourself as the witness Consciousness what is this witness consciousness 25th verse this witness Consciousness is completely unattached whatever the circumstances of the world outside of my own body of the mind it comes and goes like the vast Blue Sky overhead where clouds come and go different shapes different colors different types of

2:37 clouds they come and they go sometimes there's no clouds sometimes heavy and dark sometimes white fluffy clouds and the vast blue is completely unaffected by that it's completely unaffected by the clouds passing through the sky in the same way you are the sky of consciousness in which the world the body thoughts all of them arise and pass away completely unattached luminous without a second existence Consciousness place for 2 minutes let us meditate on

3:28 that slowly open your eyes another advantage of this meditation is in a yogic meditation when I'm trying to meditate on a deity like say Krishna

4:14 now I have a thought of Krishna and maybe the name Krishna in my mind and it's a struggle to hold on to that because every other thought that arises in the mind is a rival to that thought I have to push out those thoughts and replace it with Krishna as sound comes it's a distraction from Krishna you're lucky you don't have mosquitoes India when meditating on Krishna invariably that the demons there are no demons in this this age but they have all become mosquitoes they'll come and try to distract you the great sadaka or sadhika spiritual practitioner meditating on Krishna so that's a distraction every other movement of the mind is a distraction when you're trying to meditate on a deity the traditional method of yogic medit meditation in the

5:01 this method vedantic meditation every distraction is welcome it only serves to remind you in what light is it shining you the winess suppose you do not even think about that you forget to think about that doesn't matter the moment you recall that good enough so this is one advantage everything that can be a distraction in the other kind of meditation becomes an aid here you can develop the skill all right now let's go back to the text we have done the first verse and some of you may be wondering at this rate however is he going to complete the text one verse took more than an

5:48 hour well don't worry now the next four verses two 3 4 5 are going to go by just like that because they are you will find find they have already covered that ground thoroughly they are nothing other than an explanation of the first verse the first verse I told you there are four stages the second verse explains the first stage the third verse explains the second stage the fourth verse will explain the uh third stage and the fifth verse will explain the fourth fourth stage so the fourth stages which we came across in the first verse are simply being uh explained here verse number two please repeat after

6:52 [Applause] [Music] me it's explaining the first stage what does it say The Eyes by themselves are the Seer and what do they see so many types of colors Neil or blue or dark pet yellow they see so many kinds of forms stola gross here is a big mountain sukma there is the floating the the water shimmering in the sunlight same eyes are

7:38 seen Ras short de long or tall Ali Etc variety of forms are being seen by the same pair of n a variety of forms colors are being seen by the same pair of Eyes by itself the eyes are seeing so the eyes are the sear and the forms are the seene and what do we remember the sear and the scene are different the sear is one the seen are many the sear is relatively unchanging the seen are continuously changing right that's it

8:26 easy number three verse number three we now go to stage [Music] two [Music] what does it mean now the eyes become the seen and the mind becomes the Seer stage

9:14 two eyes are blind I can't can't see I need a cataract operation Mand I need glasses I can't see well 2020 Vision I can see very well who understands all this about our own eyes the mind all the qualities the aspects the characteristics of the Eyes by itself by itself the Mind thinks understands cognizes true and again let us apply the same things The Seer and the seene are different the mind is different from the eyes the conditions of the scene are many sometimes you can see where

9:59 sometimes you cannot see well same mind understands and the seen are many not only the Eyes Ears Nose skin physical body all of this becomes the seene and it is the same mind which is seen the Mind sees and he says extend this reasoning to ears skin nose t taste all the five sense organs same reasoning they are all the seen and the mind is their Seer they are all objects which appear in the mind we we can experience we we understand them experience them in the

10:45 mind they are all separate from the wi number one they are they are many the mind is one comparatively they change in many ways the Mind relatively unchanging understands them done stage two stage three here is an interesting thing that's happens the real magic starts Happening Here up to stage two it's common knowledge stage three is fourth [Music] verse

11:32 [Music] sorry this it should be together verse number four says now the Mind itself becomes the seen and the witness is the sear what is the mind after all thoughts feelings emotions ideas memories this is the mind he says Karma desire comes I want this

12:19 it's a thought in the mind are you not aware of it something is aware inside us is aware of the desire in the mind Salpa um determination makes it determination this is a nice thing so that's aalp a thought about something s doubt not very clear what is he saying but am I not aware of the doubt in the mind that's all if somebody doubts Shankar aara writes in one of his commentaries if somebody doubts the existence of this Atman pure Consciousness within it is the very at of the one who doubts the one who says there is no such thing all this is just you know it's a bluff

13:05 it's just fancy Theory there's no such thing as a witness show me the witness where is the witness there's no such thing and Shankar aara says it is the witness the very self of that very person who's doubting it's because of the light of the witness it's because of Consciousness that he can express he can feel a doubt it's actually if you understand it in its own terms it's irrefutable it's powerful simp simple and you can't get out of it I remember I was on a flight with this neuroscientist a lady who was flying from um from England to India for a neuroscience conference young researcher in neuroscience and she was sitting next to me for part of the journey and uh we started talking and

13:52 then she saw that I was a monk she was interested she said I'm an Anglican but I don't believe I mean I'm not non practicing angli then I started talking to her about vant and this idea of the Consciousness which Witnesses the changes of the body mind all our experiences and she listened carefully very sharp and she got it we I was speaking I spoke to her about 45 minutes or 1 hour and then yeah a full talk a talk um and the funny thing happened after after the flight U but she she got it and she said something interesting she said look I am not convinced what you're saying but I can't find a fault in

14:41 this I can't see where it goes wrong anywhere but I I I can't bring myself to believe it or to be convinced about it but it's faultless remember this person is a sgoing materialist reductionist um you know a neuroscientist who has to explain everything in terms of the brain matter and she say that I can't I can't refute this it's not I mean where is The Fault in this no you not you have not convinced me and then after the flight then we got down I met her in the airport it was in Munich Airport and uh she said to me well you know Swami I'm terribly scared of flying so if I see somebody interesting sitting next to me engage that person in conversation so the flight goes off very nicely so that's

15:27 what she was doing flight stward thises and they all came around sat around me and I there were some seats which were empty and he said please tell us 10 minutes the the purpose of life so I gave them a short talk on the purpose of life and the funny thing was when I came back to belat the headquarters afterwards and I mentioned this to the general secretary at that time Swami pran he laughed and he said I till now I had heard of The Sermon on the Mount but now this is a sermon of the and there are some other funny such things but anyway so the desire thought doubt

16:15 shha faith I believe this or I believe in God or I believe in this or that whatever shha I have faith a shha I have no faith I don't believe I just I mean I can't believe any of this very good take that thought it shines in the light of Consciousness can you deny it it arises in Consciousness what else is it what competing explanation is there in no philosophy religion or science Neuroscience you will find even an alternative explanation what is happening the first person which is experience which is happening within our within ourselves all the time which we call our inner life how do you explain

17:02 that somebody said in Neuroscience Consciousness studies is a big thing now very good they have started seriously thinking about in last 10 20 years they said we don't even have good questions yet and we have we are unable to frame the questions the the one scientist told me the theories we have are not even wrong you can say Right theory wrong Theory have some criteria to judge we are at se we don't know we are not even wrong there something way below that right and wrong at least you have some idea where you're going we we don't know anything about Consciousness so really so re modesty the intelligence oh even

17:48 lack of faith that can be is as much of a proof of this as anything else d patience determination Focus it happens in the light of your Consciousness ITA lack of patience restlessness I have a terribly Restless mind can I practice vant obviously I cannot practice meditation with a terribly Restless mind meditation won't work straight away but V yes it says you have restless mind in what light who is the witness of the Restless mind more Restless the better gives you more opportunity to practice reminds me of Raman Mahi who was

18:36 asked am I qualified to practice vedant because if you look at a traditional vedanta text the list of qualifications is daunting you must have V the real and the unreal the the Eternal and the non-eternal you must be able to discriminate discern the two vag dispassion for everything in the world that seems a tall order I do like my um chocolate chipped cookie the world is my CH chocolate chip how can I give that up and the sixfold discipline each tougher than the earlier one and finally an intense desire to be free sort of scratch out heads I have a little bit of a desire to be free but not very

19:23 intense it's strong enough to bring me here but so can I practice vant am I qualified for vant and Raman Mari says did you say I then you are qualified if you can say I because his method was who am I anybody who can say I I don't care what comes after that I am English or German or Indian I'm a believer non-believer I'm a good man or a bad man or whatever I don't care if you can say I you're qualified for BA interesting re modesty that also shines in light of Consciousness the intellect understanding PE fear caution all of

20:08 these are functions of the Mind things which come up in in your mind in our minds all the time and such other things it reveals Consciousness here the feminine is used chti normally the word we come across is chit chit means pure Consciousness here the feminine is used chiti pure Consciousness illumines all these thoughts feelings ideas emotions perceptions whatever we call our inner life all of them are conscious right by our principles that Consciousness which illumines the mind is the sear and the mind becomes the scene the two must be

20:55 separate you are not your mind you don't even have to think all the time it's so strange We Can't Stop The Mind from thinking somebody said when people shoot themselves you know commit suicide tragic cases often they shoot themselves in the head and the reason is they say they want that voice in the head to stop but how strange we have we have legs it's like I have legs so I must keep walking all the time why because I have legs no you don't have to keep walking all the time or running around all the time because you have legs they are instruments motor organs just because I have a tongue I don't have to keep talking all the time

21:42 just because I have a mind I don't have to keep thinking all the time the mind can stop so all of this all the thoughts of the mind and the Silence of the mind too is illumined by the same unchanging Consciousness it is separate from the mind it is one the mind is filled with many thoughts and feelings and ideas and it is relatively it is unchanging and the mind is changing very fast somebody said we have about 16,000 discrete thoughts in one waking day of course they're not original independent separate thoughts then we would be the greatest genius who ever lived or a raving lunatic it's most

22:28 mostly thoughts which are repetitive habits habitual thoughts thought patterns not very useful mostly garbage but it's repated again and again and again so it changes Consciousness illumining them does not change fifth verse

23:18 we on the fifth verse what what does it mean this Consciousness this witness neither Rises nor sets compar to the sun which neither Rises nor sets it is ever shining it is not like the moon which goes through phases of the moon RDI means expansion means uh reduction this Consciousness neither increases nor decreases it shines itself and everything else shines in its light everything else thoughts sense organs body Universe it shines in the light of your

24:05 Consciousness for you at least after all how is this universe experienced by you except in your Consciousness beautiful verses Swami viand was fond of quoting this in this country and in the in other Western countries also he would chant it and translate where the sun does not shine where the moon does not shine neither the Stars nor the lightning where what to speak of this mere mortal fire that shining everything else

24:56 shines by its light everything is lit up experience it in that way experience yourself experience yourself in that way you are the light in which your mind shines through the mind you the light you are illumining your body with it sense org through the mind and sense organs you that light you are illumining the whole world said no Swami I can't even illumine this room some fish are there which glow what do you think I'm some kind of glowb or something I don't it doesn't mean a physical light say the world is being illumined by the sun look outside really and who

25:41 is experiencing the World illumined by the sun you are in what light not the sunlight in your light fall asleep at this moment the world goes dark for you think of your Consciousness your real nature that witness as a light not a physical light it's called the light of lights every day we singing at the end it comes look at the words the light of lights shining deep within our minds exactly what they're talking about here that light shining within your mind you are that light Swami

26:29 we are speaking about God here true what does that mean what does it point to that reality the witness Consciousness within you and what we worship as God in religion are one and the same thing that is the meaning of aam Brasi I am not the body it is the scene not the mind it is the sea the sear of body and mind in one of the HS to S ramakrishna it is beautiful Sanskrit and you can immediately relate to it now Sanskrit goes like [Music]

27:15 this who is Rak Krishna or Krishna or Jesus or any Avatar or God or whatever de what is that buak the witness of my intellect that which shines in my intellect that which knows everything all that I know is known by that who cannot be known by anything else the fourth quarter the witness is never becomes an object of knowledge yes we saw at the end one who cannot be known by there no other there there is literally translates as there is no other knower

28:03 for this it is the only knower in sings by what will you my child know the knower so is it unknown not at all it is you yourself you know yourself not as an object of knowledge but by being yourself and then you shine out into the world into the mind and through the mind and body into the world all right so this is the fifth verse without an instrument to see something you need the instrument of the eyes and the mind to see the eyes you need the instrument of

28:49 the mind but to see the Mind directly Consciousness does not need an instrument it shines upon the mind it illumines without instrument all right before we go on to the sixth verse um are we keeping track of the time 5 five 5+ five yeah 5+ 5 now I will draw a diagram learn this diagram well here is the lodge where we

29:38 State and the lake and forests trees and the Waters of the lake Loom Lake and here we are here's my body I which I call myself and here is here is the mind the thoughts and here is what we call the witness Consciousness this is the witness now this is the gross

30:26 body by gross body I'm not saying that you're obese just physical whatever you can see is is what is meant by gross body it's Sanskrit translation of the Tula you you might be the skinniest person on Earth but that's still the gross body because you can see it you can convey it and in comparison to that now I will replace the term mind with subtle body but I always mean the Mind subtle body mind or subtle body because mind is an imprecise term in Sanskrit in vant you have several terms which covered that Manus means the thinking faculty budhi means the understanding faculty CH means the memory ahankara means the ego all of them together is what we call in English mind so subtle

31:12 body is a better way of putting it it's also a body and here is the world the sky the mountains the lake and the large and so on trees and animals and plants this is what we have learned up to this the world outside my physical body this belongs to a public World which everybody can see you can we can see each other body and we can see the objects in the world it's a shared world for us all of us experience the same thing but from here onwards it's a private word unless other person is a telepath can't into your

31:59 mind um so the Mind ccle Body but you are aware of your own mind the moment you just need to look Inward and you can feel your thoughts memories so the mind and there are thoughts and feelings and memories and all and showing them as waves in the mind up to this part up to the mind we know all this vant has not told us anything important it just pointed out what is the labeled it our experience of the world what vant has taught us today is this the very possibility of this that there is something apart from the Mind something which makes the mind and

32:45 object till now we had we had thought of who am I this feeling I is a thought in the mind just say I in your mind you'll see it's a thought in the mind so say 2 + 2 is equal 4 it's a thought in the mind just repeat I silently it's a thought in the mind so I this is in English it's called ego and in Sanskrit aamar it's a function of the mind it's not you vant tells us something radical simple but powerful the I is not you it's a function in the mind it's a thought in the mind when you do not

33:31 think I are you not there of course you're there you're just not saying I when I fall asleep is nobody there we think it might be so it's blank but then where do you come back from so there is something to experience the blankness of Deep Sleep the Consciousness which makes this eye an object and all the thoughts an object this is what we learned from vant today this is the witness apply what we learned stage one four stages stage one everything is formed here and the ey is the sear the eyes are separate from the seene now the eyes themselves and all

34:19 other sense organs in the body indeed the whole body is the scene the mind is the Seer second state St the Mind itself all the thoughts feelings good and bad in the mind they are experienced by whom by the witness the mind is the seen and the witness the sear that's the third stage and the witness itself can never become an object of knowledge why not to become an object of knowledge it must be either something that you can see with the eyes or hear with the ears a smell with the nose a touch with the you know five sense ORS or must be something you can think about with the mind but the Consciousness is beyond both body and

35:07 mind it can never become an object rather whatever you think about is an object to Consciousness whatever you see is an object to Consciousness Consciousness itself never comes on the other other side of the diagram it's somebody said it's like seeing everything with a torch light and you want to know the source of this wonderful light you take the battery out and try to put in front of the light never work light will go out you see it's behind the light try to swivel the light around the battery has gone behind the light you'll never be able to illuminate it's a rough example but not a bad example so this is the diagram we should be aware of another common question might be are we becoming less

35:52 and less I mean earlier I was here is a mind and a body and quite possibly your Consciousness now you are saying I'm not the body I'm not the mind I am only this Consciousness hav haven't I become less no why we have not become less it'll become clearer as the days go by but very simply the way vant sees it is this Consciousness is infinite and unchanging it is being limited by the mind and further limited by the body and then only we get our this present experience in it itself it is much vaster than what we feel it to be right now and we'll see a little more reason why it is we are not limiting ourselves rather when we realize ourselves as

36:39 witness we are actually coming into our real infinite nature we'll see how that works also another doubt if I realize myself as the witness will I still be able to think and see and hear of course why not it's the same consciousness which enables you to hear now to see now to think now to do all the activities now why will you not be able to do it when you realize yourself to be the Consciousness you can still use the mind and the body you will still do that all right so this diagram is a very nice tool for illustrating what we have learned one more thing you need to know about the diagram is it's mostly

37:24 wrong this this is not the way it is I have drawn this diagram just for the sake of explanation rather a better diagram would be but it won't be clear now but but it's good to know that a better diagram would be that Consciousness which we are speaking about the sakshi is actually something like this it encompasses everything this is saki or otherwise known as

38:09 Brahma but we don't know that yet you if I do that now you'll say Swami so far we were moving with reason and experience more or less now you're suddenly making a big claim so I'm not going to do that now but this is the a better picture this is what ultimately we're going towards you see for those who are interested in Indian philosophy in the philosophy of Sanka and yoga they stop when they have isolated you as pure Consciousness from the body mind and the rest of the world you are pure Consciousness he is pure Consciousness I am pure Consciousness and indeed they say we are separate pure Consciousness we are not one we are separate like stars in the sky the

38:56 German philosopher of liit he spoke of monad you know like shining points in the firmament of the night ever isolated from each eternally isolated from each other shining in their own Glory it's a beautiful way of uh beautiful description of what Sanka and yoga think you are Consciousness eternally apart from Material nature material nature is not just matter and energy out there it's also mind thought that's all material nature our problem is become mixed up with that if you can separate yourself from that you'll be free indeed the word used for freedom in s is K it translates as

39:42 aloneness not loneliness it's not that you are free in the Sania sense when you're very lonely no you're it's a it's a magnificent aloneness with Al aloneness with a capital A my eart the German I think it was e or who was it or St John who who said defined spirituality as the Flight of the alone to the alone I I alone to the alone alone small a which is what we are if you think about it don't think about it it will it throw you into depression we only think we are in

40:28 company but we are completely isolated from every each of us our own private lives are entirely our inner lives we can never really reach out in touch another person except through these crude mediums of Flesh and Blood we are alone alone when we are born throughout life every night when we dream we dream alone in the vast World conjured up by our minds which we call dreams are we not alone we seem to have so many people so many people are having a nice time if it's a nice dream or so many people harassing us and troubling of it it's a nightmare the fact is there's nobody else there in our dreams except

41:15 ourselves it's true there a story of a Pandit in the Himalayas of a Swami in fact he went to um he studied under a great pundit and he says that one day I went to the the pandit's house and he was sitting very depressed what happened the Pandit says I never been defeated in debate earlier but last night I Was Defeated I'm terribly depressed oh what happened who defeated you we never heard of this well you wouldn't have heard I went to sleep and in my dream this other Pandit came and challenged me and I went into this debate I can't remember the details of this debate it so happens in dreams you know you come stumble across a great idea or a poem or a novel which will change the literary landscape and if you wake up you don't remember anything so we had this tremendous debate and I

42:01 lost so I have lost for the first time in my life and a Swami said well sir that Pandit also was you in your dream all the people there are you your friends are you your enemies are you and everybody else is you in our dreams we're completely alone and when dreams seize in the darkness of deep sleep we are well and truly alone we don't even have our thoughts to accompany us not even the mind and what vant tells us even then we are awake in the midst of all of this you're exactly like that completely alone there's nobody else except you but don't think about that now eart says spirituality is a

42:49 flight of the alone to the alone which alone this spark of Consciousness Saki which alone Brahman the Consciousness underlying the entire universe and what is this flight if you are a dualist a devote a baka this alone is my Lord I am I am thy lover thy servant thy devote I shall live eternally in thy light that's the devotees approach if you are qualified non-dualist Vish then I am thy part let me be absorbed I am a beam of sunlight you are the entire Sun let me be absorbed in thee that is fulfillment if you are the

43:35 non-dualist this is not just a flight it's a recognition that I am this when I realize myself as this this alone disappears I am the cap alone with the capital A I am that but not just you everyone of us is everybody is that's that's the that's what non V is telling us now we are going far a field we have some time um should I go on to the next topic do you have a question at this stage yes you have a question the Mind sort of thing is located like

44:21 brain is it really there the mind yeah okay um according to vant the mind is really there where where here in this very physical body it's I'm showing it for purpose of understanding like a ghostly something floating apart from the physical body but is actually pervading the physical body it acts to our nervous system the vedantic idea is physical matter is one kind of matter called gross matter and the mind intellect emotions memory they are formed of another kind of matter called subtle matter matter in Sanskrit tal Matra Suma budha subtle matter which science has not yet come to uh so it's very difficult to locate

45:07 the mind in science they're forever trying to reduce it to the brain now is the brain related to the mind yes it is very intimately so but as an instrument through which it functions so vant says when the body is destroyed and it will be destroyed at death the mind is set free from the body mind means a subtle body and it transmigrates to other bodies when we say going from birth to death to death to another birth going to different worlds and coming you know being reincarnate reincarnated in Hinduism punj rebirth again and again and again um this is what moves the body is destroyed you leave the body back here

45:53 and pure Consciousness where will it move pure Consciousness is always there this is the one which moves from one body to another from one world to another pure Consciousness is all pervading had a question yes I don't quite know how to frame it but it seems like many times i' I've dreamt and then got it to other people's dreams or I've gotten on the planes where I realize I'm intruding on some other flow of Consciousness that isn't isn't my Consciousness right now as a vant we must make get into the habit of making making a distinction between Consciousness and the flow of thought what we call the flow of Consciousness or in literature the stream of Consciousness is actually flow

46:38 of thought stream of thought Consciousness you can see in this model Consciousness does not flow Consciousness is unchangeably is it is it it just is it shines forth What flows is thought what changes his thought the stream of thought so our language we have to be careful because our language has been modeled Upon Our day-to-day lives it has not been designed to express non-duality that's why when we use language to express these thoughts often we run into contradictions and paradoxes you will find often in non-dualistic texts in the opitions paradoxes are used to express something

47:24 higher than the highest lower than the lowest greater than the greatest further than the furthest nearer than the nearest that which is beyond the known and Beyond the unknown what do you mean by that in the Gita he knows the secret of action who sees action in inaction and inaction in action whatever does that mean sounds as the younger generation would say it sounds cool but but what does it mean there is a reason for that and if you are interested in that whole aspect how language deals with non-duality or fails to deal with nity I refer you to my talk it's on YouTube on the vant

48:12 Society of Southern California website the ad vant and the language of parado the language of parado the language of paradox ad vant and the language of paradox you can just search on YouTube you'll get it it's just over 1 hour and it deals with this question what what are the themes which are dealed with there it's interesting why does language fail to express Brahman or Atman we are We Are Forever being told that it cannot be expressed in language it is beyond words we even sing every day to to Lord Beyond thought and beond language

48:57 but why after all why why can't language express it why can't you speak about Brahman or God aren't we forever speaking about it what what do the swamis do other than speak about Brahman so so how is it that language fails to express and I'll come to you so in that talk I deal with What language can do and why it cannot express Brahman and how do the upanishads and the scriptures which which are basically language how do they get around this problem how do they still manage to express Brahman that's where the idea of paradoxes and contradictions coming uses Paradox deliberately is using Paradox not to confuse you not to give trouble

49:43 to you but to get around this problem that language cannot express problem yes there a there was a question there I have a practical question all the chanting we've been doing from this text do you have this somewhere on YouTube also like I want to pick up the uh you know pick up the chanting um not separately but I did this uh text I Tau this text quite recently after coming to Hollywood so the whole drisha via is there in 12 lectures it's worthwh to go and take a look at that in YouTube you can find that we are doing it little differently in this retreat in YouTube it was done like more like a cies of formal talks but where can I get this

50:29 then I want to learn it it will be in YouTube it will be on YouTube okay yeah but hopefully it's not it's there I've done the same chanting there on YouTube the only thing is it's not in one place it's scattered across 12 pictures well yeah okay you can get it again and again there in YouTube thank you yes there's a question there actually there are three questions is that okay Marl start with one this is from the morning we had a me all of us got together and tried to sort it out as you have taught us so three questions is does the witness have an active role in the uh flow of the mind that's the first question what is the relationship between the witness and the mind and then who holds the responsibility for

51:16 the right action and thought right very good questions all of them the second one that what is the relationship between the witness let me go back to the earlier diagram then we can speak about it more comfortably though this is the real in s they say the state of reality is this but we cannot use this for classes so we have to take the witness and put it here so they the novices in the monastery and belat the young men although they are all monks but they also like any young people they are mischievous also so when they say where

52:01 is Brahman or where is Atman see on they say it's usually on the left side of the board in s this class it's to the left look to the left here's the witness so one of the questions was what is the relationship between the witness and the mind here is the mind the what is relationship between flow of the Mind the flow of the Mind the first question was can it control the mind uh it's does it have an active role does it have an active role in controlling the mind and third one was who is responsible for right and wrong yes for the right very deep questions you have an additional question here no well I'll follow I don't want to all right each of these could be a lecture

52:48 in itself in fact the second one is the topic you're right on track because the second question is exactly what they'll talk about now the the first question is does it have an active role no what do you mean the witness we are using an English word witness is usually witnessing is an act usually but here it does not mean an act it's more like the sun which shines continuously it's not doing anything deliberately it's more like the magnet which is there and because of the magnetic field the iron filings wh around it but it is not deliberately doing it anything it means you does it have no role oh it has the most important role most important role

53:34 is because of its existence the mind can function because of its existence because of its light the mind and the sense organs function everything that we do in life religious and worldly good and bad Sublime and ridiculous everything that we do in the world is because of the light of the witness otherwise we couldn't do anything so that is the role in fact it's all roles in one sense yeah does we were discussing this in the afternoon does it influence the mind no it's not a conscious remember the witness is not like a little man sitting on the top of a big machine and controlling the machine you know you have seen this huge cranes they'll have a little box at the top where a man is

54:21 sitting and controlling the crane pressing the buttons the witness is not like a little person there's a word for that homunculus sitting in the mind here in the headquarters and controlling everything there's nothing like that there is only this all pervading Consciousness which shines on the mind but let me I'll go to this the next two verses and we'll see something interesting happen yes s what Consciousness is that eyeball up the upper left Consciousness is is that it's a big eye yeah yeah no but could you it's could you U is is there any what what might be the connection or disconnection between in Buddhism practicing awareness as I would say

55:09 practicing awareness of the moment is one and would it have any relationship to the non who am I yes um or is it even worth is it going no it it's really worth going into but I'll hold myself back because because that's a full talk now I'll do I'll take the root of compromise my first impulse is to say to put it off so that we can discuss it later but then I'd like to say something right now if we do get around to discussing it in detail later that's great but right now I'd like to say this okay the Buddhist Approach at least one school of Buddhism there are many many schools of Buddhism but one school and maybe the mainstream

55:54 School of Buddhist Phil phosy called the school of sh mad which is the central philosophy of Tibetan Buddhism also the central philosophy of most Mahayana schools they are very close to nonu vant apparently not because they deny the existence of God here Swami you are talking about a permanent unchanged in Consciousness they deny this very same thing they say that there is no permanent unchanging self there is no permanent unchanging self you can talk Of Consciousness but they will say series of flashes of

56:41 Consciousness they call it shik apparently so you go bit further then what are they talking about when you see what nagarjuna the greatest philosopher of the sh School how he defines sh sha literally in Sanskrit word sha means zero the void and you go to mandukya Kara and look at the definition of Brahman Brahman is the infinite apparently they on absolutely on the two different ends of the spectrum nothing

57:26 and everything how can they be the same but when you look at the definitions you will find that incredible when you say how does nagarjuna Define sh he says it is not the ultimate thing which we're talking about it's not something which exists so it does not exist it is not something which does not exist he says not that it exists oh so it does not exist not that it does not exist so it both exist and not does not exist not that it both exist and does not exist so it does not exist and not not exist not even

58:12 that calls it what I'm speaking about is it transend the four logical Alternatives exists no does not EX exist no both exists and does not exist no neither exist neither does not exist no and the almost the very same terms are used by gaap to refer to brah because you see it's a good point good time to make this point wait but that sounds like a call almost almost a yes wait wait wait just hold on

58:57 it's a good time to make this point then how much time do we have not much time but I just make it a point here though I have drawn it in this way look at this the mountains in right behind you the lake and the large we're sitting in and our bodies these are things objects and when you look inside even the mind which you feel just now all of us that's also kind of a thing because it's an object of your knowledge it's an object of our knowledge we are aware of it but that which is aware of all of these things that Consciousness that witness is not a [Music] thing number

59:44 one and number two equally important it is not nothing it is like this these are the two things we can understand a thing and nothing no is Den these are the two things we can understand there is something or there is nothing these are the two things we can understand what is telling you it's not nothing there is something called Brahman and what Buddhism nagarjun is telling you that is not a

1:00:29 thing then where do you land what do you what conclusion can you can you draw from it you take both and you end up with no what is Brahman the witness it's not a thing it's not nothing it's no thing sounds profound but what is that it's you what are you are your thing you are not an object of your knowledge or anybody else's knowledge right now you can see me or can't you we can see your body you can see your own thoughts but the one which is seeing your own thoughts from inside is it a

1:01:16 thing it's not a thing is it nothing then you wouldn't exist there's a long discussion on this by Vidar at the end of the third chapter of padash where he says the two greatest obstacles for understanding just understanding let alone realizing understanding the non self is a tendency to either try to see it as a thing or when we realize you cannot see it as a thing to dismiss it as nothing no it is the only reality but it's not a thing all things all objects are things things to whom things to this Consciousness all right I think they've

1:02:02 run out of time almost what's the I understand what's the definition of nothing technically it would be an absence of the thing which is what of anything for example when I say there is a glass on this table there's something on this table when I remove this glass now you are entitled to say there is no glass on the table that's true that no glass on the table is an that absence of glass is nothing well it's the absence of a glass but there's still something there sure but we don't know you you're speaking about you speaking like a vant yes the V the Buddhist would be deeply unhappy

1:02:48 with you but the V would be happy with you yes there's still something there difference between no thing and nothing yeah yeah it's a difference there's a difference it's nothing it's the infinite Consciousness the subject is not an object it's not a thing but it's not nothing either if you want I can go into that it say yes now just look at the this Consciousness is n but when working through the mind and body right now as this person sitting there is gam if you can n why can't be each of us is n Nuna means beyond all description and quality am I beyond

1:03:35 description and quality am I that bad Swami no you are that Transcendent that Consciousness and do all do qualities and descriptions apply to me yes it does from the point of view of your body of your mind qualities and descriptions apply to you but it's the qualities and descriptions of a j there the qualities and descriptions of iswar as Nuna this question should come as Nuna I and srima Krishna and Krishna and Rama and Jesus are be the same yes then we are not alone we are all one so the witness is not you the witness in itself question is the

1:04:21 witness ja yes and no now you can answer these questions I'll throw them back at you is the witness ja no it is the witness of the ja when you become free you do not become free you become free of of yourself the little person which I am will never become free I will realize I am free of this little person it will continue until death of this body but I am eternally free of this little person don't worry about this little person does the world make sense to you oh yes as Brahman as the reality underline this world everything makes sense without it

1:05:08 nothing makes sense all right you asked a question are you ja is the witness ja no and next yes because who else is Ja but the witness if is God everybody no God is God then who is everybody none other than God Mary hail Swami VI's disciple she wrote a poem to him saying that I have understood what you have taught that all is God and he wrote back a scathing poem saying that I have never taught such strange doctrine that all is God unmeaning talk

1:05:54 he says unmeaning talk and she was surprised youve yourself said it God is all have said it God is everything so VI wrote back what I have said is God alone is the all is not only this exists we will understand in time to come not right now because right now it seems to be a separate thing when we see the underlying reality it's like saying all the waves in the lake and the Bubbles and all and water well compared to the water with respect to the water there are no waves bubbles nothing it's all water only so you can say water is everything or you can say none of those

1:06:39 things is the water because they they have no existence of their own apart from the water is there a reality here yes are these things real in themselves no we have forgotten the reality behind all these things in fact Rami says something very strange who can say the world is real he says only the enlightened person can say the word is real we say wait a minut wait a minute doesn't the enlightened person say Brahman is real and the world is false he says no only the student of vant says the world is false it is the worldly man who says the world is real B is a theory God is a matter of Faith world is real that's ignorance

1:07:27 and if the enlightened person says the world Brahman is this world or world is nothing other than Brahman in that sense the world is real because it's Brahman only it's only the vedantic student in the middle that's us we say Brahman is real and the world is false as if there are two things we have to go through this phase otherwise the reality of Brahman will not become apparent to us right the transition has to be made but we are running far ahead of ourselves we have uh but it'll make it easy to uh go into the next part should we stop now no no more yes we can just break up into informal groups now om sh shant

1:08:21 [Music] shant that is why when Buddha student Ananda asked him or SRA I think asked him is there a self Atma Buddha said have I said that there is a self there is no so the student said so there is no self did I say that there is no self he confused it's either this or the that you see now instead of saying such things the Buddha took a different track the student asked then what do you teach then what what have you said Buda said see if a person is hunting in the

1:09:07 forest or person in the forest he gets hit by an arrow and you come to rescue him and instead of calling the doctor the person says first of all find out what wood this arrow is made of what is the cast of the person who shot this arrow and what poison is on the tip of what would you say to such a person I would say he's a fool he will die before he knows all these things similarly oh monk Buddha says similarly om I the t is the name of the Buddha I teach that there is suffering there is a cause of suffering there is an end to suffering and there is a way out of suffering that's all I teach because he's right anything you attempt to say is liable to

1:09:54 misinterpreted