Brief Summary
This episode of Lex Fridman Podcast features a conversation with historian Vias Ludus, specializing in Germany and Eastern Europe. They discuss the history of communism, its origins in Marx's ideas, its implementation in the Soviet Union and China, and its eventual decline. The conversation delves into the contradictions within Marxist ideology, the role of violence and terror in communist regimes, and the lasting impact of these ideologies on the 20th century. The episode also explores the relationship between communism and fascism, highlighting their shared ambition for total control and their ideological opposition. Finally, the conversation touches upon the current state of Russia and China, emphasizing the need for humility and realism in understanding these complex societies.
- Key takeaways: Communism, despite its utopian aspirations, often resulted in violence, terror, and economic failure.
- The implementation of communist ideology varied significantly across different countries, leading to unique outcomes.
- The 20th century witnessed a clash of ideologies, with communism and fascism vying for dominance.
- The legacy of communism continues to shape the world today, with Russia and China representing its most prominent contemporary manifestations.
Introduction
The episode begins with Lex Fridman introducing Vias Ludus, a historian specializing in Germany and Eastern Europe. They discuss the heavy topic of communism, an ideology that has led to over 100 million deaths in the 20th century. The conversation will also touch upon Nazi ideology and World War II.
Marxism
The conversation delves into the central ideas of Karl Marx that laid the foundation for communism. Marx believed that history has a purpose and moves in a predetermined direction towards a final revolution that will liberate humanity from exploitation and necessity. He also acknowledged the role of heroic individuals who can accelerate this historical process. This combination of scientific determinism and the possibility of individual heroism made Marxism a powerful ideology. Marx's vision of a post-revolutionary society was utopian, envisioning a world free from conflict, poverty, and necessity. He believed that the state would eventually wither away after the revolution, as class conflict would be resolved.
Anarchism
The discussion then shifts to Mikhail Bakunin, a Russian anarchist who was a rival of Marx. Bakunin agreed with Marx that humanity is engaged in a struggle for a better way of life, but he rejected Marx's hierarchical vision of a revolutionary movement and the eventual dictatorship of the proletariat. Bakunin envisioned a future based on the free association of individuals, rejecting the state as a form of organized violence and traditional religious ideas that he saw as reinforcing hierarchies. Bakunin's warnings about the potential for authoritarianism within a hierarchical revolutionary movement proved prophetic, as communist regimes often ended up suppressing anarchist movements.
The Communist Manifesto
The conversation explores the Communist Manifesto, a brief pamphlet written by Marx and Friedrich Engels that had a profound impact on the world. The Manifesto, published in 1848, did not cause the revolutions that swept across Europe that year, but it gained significant influence in the aftermath. The Paris Commune of 1871, a bloody episode of urban upheaval, became associated with Marx, further increasing his notoriety. The Manifesto is a call to arms, outlining the inevitable course of history and urging people to make the revolution happen. It contrasts with Das Kapital, Marx's more detailed and scholarly work on economics, which aimed to be the "Origin of Species" of economic thought.
Communism in the Soviet Union
The conversation turns to the implementation of communism in the Soviet Union. The Bolsheviks, led by Vladimir Lenin, seized power in Russia in 1917, taking advantage of the power vacuum created by World War I. Lenin believed that a revolution in Germany was necessary for the success of the Russian revolution, but this did not materialize. The Bolsheviks faced numerous challenges, including the Russian Civil War, and Lenin's insistence on discipline and organization proved crucial to their survival. Lenin's vision of a post-revolutionary society was based on the idea of a state that would eventually wither away, with a highly efficient bureaucracy modeled after Swiss post offices.
Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin
The discussion focuses on the power struggle between Lenin, Leon Trotsky, and Joseph Stalin after Lenin's death in 1924. Trotsky, a charismatic and intellectual leader, advocated for permanent revolution, while Stalin, a less charismatic but more pragmatic figure, focused on consolidating power within the Bolshevik party and the state. Stalin's rise to power was facilitated by Lenin's patronage and his ability to control personnel decisions. Stalin's brutality and the use of propaganda to cultivate a cult of personality around him are discussed.
Stalin
The conversation delves into Stalin's reign of terror, highlighting his use of the secret police to eliminate opposition and control society. The origins of the secret police in the Soviet Union are traced back to Lenin's era, with the establishment of the Cheka (Extraordinary Commission) to suppress enemies of the regime. Stalin's purges extended to the secret police itself, creating an atmosphere of fear and uncertainty. Stalin's belief in the ends justifying the means is discussed, as well as his view of himself as a "good person" who gets things done, regardless of the methods employed.
Holodomor
The episode examines the Holodomor, the man-made famine in Ukraine during the 1930s, which resulted in millions of deaths. The collectivization of agriculture, a policy aimed at increasing agricultural efficiency and providing a predictable food supply for the industrializing Soviet Union, is discussed. The policy proved disastrous, as it deprived farmers of their land and incentives, leading to widespread suffering and a decline in agricultural production. The Holodomor is seen as a deliberate act of violence, with Stalin targeting Ukrainian farmers and those opposed to the Bolshevik regime.
The Great Terror
The conversation explores the Great Terror, a period of intense political repression in the Soviet Union from 1936 to 1938. During this time, over 750,000 people were executed and over a million were sent to the Gulag. The terror targeted not only political opponents but also loyal communists, intellectuals, military officers, and bureaucrats. The episode highlights the paralyzing fear that gripped Soviet society during this period, with neighbors denouncing each other and even loyal communists fearing for their lives. The Great Terror is seen as a manifestation of the inherent contradictions within Marxist ideology, particularly the rejection of absolute morality and the emphasis on the exercise of power.
Totalitarianism
The discussion examines the concept of totalitarianism, a term coined by Hannah Arendt to describe regimes like Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union. Totalitarian regimes aim for total control over hearts and minds, demanding not just passive obedience but fanatical loyalty. They use fear and compulsion to generate belief in the system and atomize the masses. While no regime has ever achieved total control, the ambition to do so is what makes totalitarianism a unique and terrifying phenomenon.
Response to Darryl Cooper
The conversation addresses claims made by historian and podcaster Darryl Cooper about World War II. Cooper argued that Winston Churchill was the "chief villain" of the war and that the Holocaust was an accident, a byproduct of the war. Ludus refutes these claims, arguing that they are based on a misunderstanding of Nazi ideology and a neglect of the historical facts. He emphasizes that Nazi ideology was not limited to Poland but aimed for world domination, with plans for the subjugation and ethnic cleansing of Eastern Europe. The Holocaust was not an accident but a planned and systematic program of mass murder.
Nazis vs Communists in Germany
The episode explores the relationship between the Nazis and the communists in Germany. Despite their ideological opposition, they often cooperated in creating an atmosphere of civil war that undermined German democracy. The Nazi-Soviet Pact of 1939, a non-aggression pact with secret clauses for the division of Eastern Europe, is discussed as a prime example of this cynical cooperation. The conversation also examines the similarities between Nazi and communist regimes, highlighting their shared ambition for total control and their rejection of democracy.
Mao
The discussion shifts to Mao Zedong, the leader of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). Mao adapted Marxist ideology to the Chinese context, emphasizing the role of the peasantry in the revolution. Maoism is seen as a significant departure from orthodox Marxism, with its focus on rural mobilization and its ambition to outdo Stalin's achievements. Mao's rivalry with Stalin and his desire to establish himself as the leader of international communism are discussed.
Great Leap Forward
The conversation examines the Great Leap Forward, a disastrous economic and social campaign launched by Mao in 1958. The campaign aimed to rapidly industrialize China through the mobilization of the peasantry, but it resulted in widespread famine and the deaths of approximately 40 million people. The Great Leap Forward is seen as a manifestation of Mao's ambition to outdo Stalin and his belief in the possibility of achieving communism through sheer acts of will.
China after Mao
The episode explores the evolution of China after Mao's death in 1976. The CCP, under Deng Xiaoping, embarked on a period of economic reforms, opening up to world markets and allowing for private enterprise. This economic liberalization led to significant economic growth and a transformation of Chinese society. However, the CCP has maintained political control, and there are questions about whether China can be considered a communist country anymore.
North Korea
The conversation briefly touches upon North Korea, a country that claims to be communist but is ruled by a dynastic government. The episode highlights the challenges of understanding a closed society like North Korea and the limitations of applying traditional analytical categories to such a unique case.
Communism in US
The discussion turns to the history of communism in the United States. The Communist Party of the United States, founded in 1919, faced challenges in establishing itself, particularly due to its association with immigrants and its perceived foreign influence. The episode explores the rise and fall of Earl Browder, an American-born communist leader who attempted to make communism more palatable to American audiences. The role of espionage in shaping American perceptions of communism is also discussed, with the example of Whitaker Chambers, a former Soviet spy who became a renegade and wrote the book "Witness."
Russia after Soviet Union
The conversation examines the evolution of Russia after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. The episode highlights the lack of a full historical reckoning with the Soviet past, which has contributed to a lack of clarity and understanding about the country's history. The rise of Vladimir Putin and his nostalgic view of Russian statehood, which has led to aggression towards Ukraine, is discussed.
Advice for Lex
Lex asks Ludus for advice on interviewing world leaders. Ludus emphasizes the importance of understanding the leader's background, formative influences, and expectations for the future. He suggests that observing how a leader treats those from whom they don't expect anything can provide insights into their moral compass.
Book recommendations
Ludus recommends two books: "Doctor Zhivago" by Boris Pasternak, a novel that captures the sweep and tragedy of the Russian Revolution, and the "Depford Trilogy" by Robertson Davies, a series of novels that blend the mythical, mystical, and real.
Advice for young people
Ludus advises young people to read, emphasizing the importance of engaging with books and absorbing their messages. He sees reading as crucial for developing empathy, broadening one's sensibilities, and resisting manipulation.
Hope
The episode concludes with a discussion about hope for the future of humanity. Ludus finds hope in the sheer variety of human reactions to situations and the inexhaustible source of human resilience. He believes that the willingness of humans to explore and learn from the past, even after empires fall and dreams are broken, gives him hope for the future.
