0:00 Ready? >> Ready for the color coding. >> Tada. You're wrong. >> So, uh, it's day three of a timeless a timeless exposure of what is and is not. a
0:46 playful uttering it would seem of this freedom which is naturally, ordinarily, and simply everything. There's nothing to figure out. There's no obstacles obviously. Well, maybe it's not obvious, but but there are no hurdles in this appearance. There's no there there's nothing to to persist or persevere with. There's nothing to resist. There's there's nothing to get through past, underneath, or beyond. There just is this. There just is this. It's so utterly abundantly and naturally simply this. And uh in a way the words are the words are this too of course but in a way there's some kind of desire to
1:34 to not over complicate it by going into what we've talked about you know in a bit more depth and breadth yesterday and the day before. Even though a couple of us weren't here yesterday or the day before, but we're all quite familiar with this, it would seem by now that there just is simply what appears to be happening. It's it's not it's not complicated. It's it's actually ridiculously simple. It's possibly the most simple message in inverted commas that that uh I think I've ever heard that there's just this and it only ever comes back to that really. Um and there may be all sorts of you know perceptions and energetics in the play of it all. But it doesn't have any meaning. There's no
2:20 purpose to any of this and neither is there a need for one. There just is naturally the ordinariness and the immediacy freely being shapes, forms, bodies, sounds, textures, whatever. It's just it just is all the same thing, which is no thing at all. Whether it's a chair, a carpet, a a belief, a memory, whatever could appear to appear is is that it is absolutely abundantly and immediately this. And it would seem like in the freedom of it, there can seem to be misperceptions, I guess, misperceptions that this isn't it, that this isn't enough or that this
3:07 isn't whole or that there's more to this than what appears to be. And that's just this playing the game of tail chasing really that the tail chasing play that could seem to feel itself as a momentum that might that might make progression or or go somewhere or become something or you know evolve or develop. those kinds of ideas and senses of this being timely that that there's momentum involved that there's continuity involved and that is it would seem to be suggested but also it seems to get
3:54 exposed for its illusory nature as though the the sense of continuity is not happening and not felt to be happening. There really is no sense that there's anything else. There's no sense that there's anything else other than what appears to be happening. Because where would it be? What would it be? Any idea is it. So any idea doesn't get out of this. It doesn't escape this or evade this. It doesn't abstract from this. When all is seen to be this impersonally so it's just too immediate for any kind of journey and destination really A and B now and then here and there. So
4:39 immediacy is is so total that it can't be seen by anything. It doesn't get seen by itself cuz it doesn't split apart from itself or break away from itself to do that. So immediiacy is unseeable in that respect. It's unknowable cuz no there there is only that. Well then it can't be known because it's all there is. So uh really that's just that's just the play of words trickling out of nothingness. It would seem that there's just a playful uttering really, not with any intention of course to change anyone's mind or or make something happen without any intention or agenda or even the slightest desire to to
5:27 improve something here. There's nothing to improve. >> There's no one to improve. There's no one to impress. I mean, this is utterly divinely unimpressive, it would seem. Um there's there's nothing to show. There's nothing to reveal. There's nothing to discover or find out. And there's nothing to remain hidden or secret either. It's just the timeless essence in a way. The essence of this totality which is just abundantly all there is shimmering and shining vibrantly so and yet empty completely void. Hey Michael.
6:13 Completely vibrantly void. Vibrant void. It's my favorite term, it would seem, recently. The void of vibrancy, which is vitality without value. It's a lot of V's in there. Yeah, I like alliteration. Yeah, it's I I like oxymorons, I think. Um like the open secret, of course, would be another one. It's like there's it's so ungraspable. Like what is totally wide open seems to be hidden by being everything because no one or no thing can find that because it's all there is. If it wasn't all there is, maybe there could be something to to stand away and then point at it. But no, it's it's it hides
7:01 in plain sight, it would seem. And the void of vibrancy is another oxymoron because void often without the word vibrant seems to carry this connotation of something bleak and cold and and maybe quite dark or or or maybe negative even. But it's not it's not a void that is bleak and blank and dark. It's completely vibrantly void. Totally empty and yet totally dynamically vibrational. Yeah. That's all there is. Yeah. And vitality without value because it is there's a kind of vi there's a kind of almost want to say aliveness to it. You know, it's like a vital a vital vibrancy
7:49 without without life without a polarity of life and death. It's a kind of vital nothingness. But there's no value because again it's it's everything and value is relative. So yeah, we can sort of chew on that for what it's worth, which of course being without value is nothing. Not worth anything gloriously so. Yeah. And so there's again uh maybe I sound like a broken record by this point, but there really is nothing to get. And that's that is the total liberation. The humiliation and liberation that this is already complete. It's already totally abundantly fulfilled. And anything that
8:36 might show up is that even the sense of lack or or the desire that may appear or a demand for something to change, it's it's all it's all the aquinomous freedom just playing as sensation and vibration. Well then, yeah, back where we started, which is nowhere. Nothing. Nothing. No obstacle, no hurdle. No outcome, no goal, no objective. Just this only ever. Just this. Hey, just this. Never. Not this. Already this. Always this. dynamically. This
9:23 a this that is so total it doesn't relate to that because that is this too. Whatever that might be. Cheers. When you do your intros, do you do any planning whatsoever? Does it just come out?
10:08 >> It just comes out. >> Sorry. >> When you do your intros, do you do any planning or does it just come out? It just tends to come out. Yeah. Just tends to come out of nothing. >> I mean, there might be, you know, to tell a story about it, there might be some days in which I think, oh, I might I might say that today, >> but um but then that that might not actually happen. >> Like I might talk about continuity today and then continuity doesn't get talked about or it might, you know, but for the most part it's just completely spontaneous like everything. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's quite playful in that respect. Like almost like improv or something, you
10:54 know, spontaneous improvisational nothing spouting, you know. >> Yeah. >> But it seems to be so intelligent and coherent at the same time. >> Like everything, all the bits match up. >> Yeah. >> In my perception, you know. >> Yeah. >> It's like >> Yeah. Yeah, I >> think you were saying yesterday about um artists and music >> like Oh, was it trying to think exactly what you're saying, but it was >> Yeah. How could something so incredibly coherent >> come come out of a person? >> Yeah, >> absolutely. >> Yeah, that's it. >> Yeah. Like, you know, when Freddy Mercury is
11:39 like just blasting out these you know, symphonies, there's such dynamic range of versatility in the language and the the composition. It's like, how the hell could that ever come from a person, you know? It's so total like and >> it's just unbelievable. >> Yeah. When I watch the film Bohemian Rapsidy, um, you know, and and, uh, Ramy Malik, I think his name is, isn't it? He's like portraying Freddy like just wow. And um they're in the they're in the studio writing Bohemian Rapsity and and it's just like clearly he has no idea what he's doing and yet it's absolute perfection. Yeah. >> You know.
12:25 >> Yeah. It seemed quite I don't know it seemed quite apparent like it was just one example of many like how an artist could have such an impeccable vision and yet there's no way that someone is in there actually orchestrating that. Yeah. Yeah. >> Cuz sometimes you hear people talk about divine intelligence. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Which implies a plan or a >> Sure. Sure. >> It's not even that though, is it? >> No, it's chaos. Yeah. Yeah. >> Cuz chaos is so chaotic. It doesn't even live in relation to order. Like that's how chaotic this is. Cuz order is chaos too. That's how chaotic this is. Yeah.
13:11 Order and structure, routine, pattern. Well, that's just all the vibrancy as well. >> Yeah. It's too wide open for source and, you know, becoming from source like a director and uh production.
14:05 I hate bohemium. >> Really? What? The film and the song? The >> song? Yeah. >> Oh my god. Shall we all have a vote? Who disagrees? Well, let's think of a a composition that you like. >> Yeah. >> What what what could you think of as a as a piece of art that you know that inspired you deeply to see? >> Raglin Road. >> What's that? >> Raglin Road. >> Right. Yeah. >> Who's who by?
14:53 >> Um, >> no one. person who wrote it was Patrick >> one of the Dubliners. >> Oh, the Dubliners. >> Oh, sweet. Yeah. Luke. >> Yeah, >> that is ours. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'll check it out. Raglin Road. >> Yeah. by the Dubliners or just by the one >> Kelly. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And and do you feel like there's a an apparency of absence there?
15:38 >> I never thought that. >> Yeah. I think it's just I think it's just interesting, isn't it? >> In terms of the uh Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. in terms of the poet. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Patrick Cabner. Well, it's like um like Tom was saying the other day about how you know through the through the ingestion of certain substances like suddenly there can be this dynamic outpouring of pure artistic creativity and how amazing that can be and it's so utterly staggering like yeah I think that's why many poets and musicians take substances you know
16:26 because it sort of seems to assist a flow of creative outpouring. Not that they always need that, obviously. >> A poem called Canal Bank Walk. It's nothing but nondual. >> Can you send them to me? >> I could play it. >> We'll play it. We'll have a music session today. >> Patrick Kavan. Yes, that's right. Oh, no. Yes. Yeah. Hey. >> Yeah. Um, so there can be this outpouring of creativity. >> Yeah. >> Wouldn't you say that that's because the MI has been like at least partially
17:13 suspended? Well, >> the the normal workings of the MI in terms of um cognition, logic, order, order, social preferences, all that moves out the way when you're >> It seems to in many cases. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's why musicians get so addicted to to writing and and producing and playing because uh >> it seems to either artificially it seems to artificially at the very least kind of subdue >> subdue >> this centralized abstractional energy of there being someone. And it might and it could well be the same with extreme sports as well because when you're in that flow so to speak even though it
17:58 might still seem like a personal state um it almost demands there to be no one to you know >> cuz as soon as this energy comes in and tries to make it personal and subjective then it kind of seems to get constricted. >> Yeah. >> That that's what I got in the last five or 10 minutes there. me that gets in the way and tries to impose >> order on what flows and it's always just >> cognition and bestlaid plans. It's a it's a planning planning. >> Yeah. However, of course, it it might be easy to mistake that as as suggesting that um working with artistic outpouring and creativity might lead to a lessening of
18:44 me and that would obviously be a a nonsensical story. >> Yeah. Because there is no path to the absence of me because there already isn't one. It's an illusion totally and fundamentally. And already the artwork is is actually outpouring, no one ever orchestrates it cuz there's not even a slight bit of autonomy. But it seems like in the appearance of it when artists get really into that, there's just kind of a blending emerging with the artwork and then there's just the artwork happening. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um I think just a little while ago Theo said that you articulate sometimes when you're speaking introduction etc quite
19:30 well. It comes through well. >> You're in some kind of flow state when you do the introductions. >> Well I is a time when you know you go yeah it's just it's coming. It's coming. It's coming. Yeah. I mean >> very natural is it? when when it seems like the whole centralized energy if we can call it that is not there that that just is how it is and I don't even want to say all the time because time too is not in the equation but it is just con constantly timelessly impersonally flow without direction and that's how it is as though this this center is not there it's just constant flow whether we're in a meeting or we're
20:16 walking to the pier or going for coffee. It's always that. It's always that. >> Wow. >> Yeah. But the meeting Yeah. It's like that that's that would seem to be for this body >> like that kind of same thing that the artist gets lost in the in the writing. >> Nice. >> Or the the music or whatever their output is. Yeah. It I think it is the same. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. That must be nice because I've only experienced that a few times. Sometimes in conversations after having a conversation with somebody either they've said or I've said, "Where did that all come from?" >> Yeah, exactly. >> It it it had nothing to do with me. >> Oh, totally. Yeah. 100%. >> It was It could be someone asking for a
21:04 solution for a problem and they get given 10. Do that and that would happen that anything. Yeah. >> But it's literally a feeling afterwards of >> where did that come from? Absolutely. Where did that come from? It happens quite a lot >> during the meetings and >> I would have made videos or whatever. I mean just the other day when me, Tatiana and uh Tobias were hanging out, we were just playing and chatting and then suddenly >> uh the words spilled out of the room. The words spilled out of the room, there's no more games, there's just play. No more games, only play. And and Tobias was like scrambling around for his notebook like, "I've got to write that down. I've got to write that down." And and I'm like, "What what happened? What happened?" And he's like, "You just said
21:51 there's no more games, only play." And I'm like, "Did I where the heck did that come from?" Yeah. So, it's like it's so dynamically wide open and no one, you know, you can't you can't copyright this cuz it there's no author to this. Yeah. nothing belongs to anyone >> and I suppose hence um afterwards exactly like Tobias and yourself the me can't recollect what was said >> right >> uh there sometimes in these meetings as well someone puts their hand up and says what did you just say and because some I don't don't know what did I say yeah >> because there's no me that said >> there's no reference point >> there's no reference point yeah totally >> I watched a little video a week or so
22:37 ago and it was just a little short video and it was where someone's baby had dropped from a balcony. Someone was filming that time and a cat leapt up and just shielded the fall. The cat was on the pavement. The baby was on one floor up and I realized, wow, the cat was doing its own thing. It sensed something. I I don't know how it sensed it all. And then I thought, oh, there's no me there. There's no there's no me there. Maybe the mom screamed from the top. That wasn't in the video. Yeah. Or something from a balcony, first floor. >> The cat just instinctively leapt. It looked like leapt. The baby landed on and >> Wow. >> And baby was fine. >> Wow. >> Yeah. And I thought, "Wow." Power of
23:24 know me sort of thing. >> Yeah. Just >> natural nature. >> Yeah. >> Immediate. Yeah. >> Very, I don't know, touching, inspiring or >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Yes. This I amness is the illusion of constriction. And yet even that is the flow in disguise. Yeah. >> Yes.
24:33 It's just basking. Just we said the word basking at the beginning >> without direction, without intention. Just basking. Basking or bathing. I like to suggest it's basking in an unknowable childlike wonder. >> Sorry. Do you mean basking? >> Basking. >> I do apologize. >> I meant basking. >> We are basking in the childlike wonder.
25:22 >> Bathing. bathing >> bathing. Do you do you think language and separation came along at the same time? >> Could there be separation without language? Cuz it seems like language creates me then you and maybe it came along with farming, >> you know, my patch of land. >> Right. Right. >> Stay away. >> Yeah. It's tricky, isn't it? These evolutionary questions are very ambiguous. um to kind of have a look at. >> Um >> yeah, I mean we don't I mean birds and dogs have their own language in a sense, you know, it's just not >> just doesn't seem to be alphabetical or
26:08 >> as as ordered or something like that maybe, but then that's how it's perhaps perceived. >> Um >> it seems like language creates a secondhand world. >> Yeah, I don't think it's >> that we jump into. I don't quite see it like that. I don't think language causes separation because we're talking about energetically a whole psychossematic phenomena which is elusory. Um but in the evolution of it there does seem to be some kind of interesting >> uh correlation or or connection um in the appearance of it. But it's not like it's it's not like if one just refrained from using language and just stayed mute all the time that they'd feel less
26:54 separate cuz obviously that's just >> that would be nonsense really. Um yeah so I don't think that they are caused they're causing each other but there seems to be some kind of interesting connection between the human psychophysical organism and the way language is is part of that >> um and language I would suggest seems to be very much conditioned >> like it seems to be conditioned by the separate experience because of the way we talk >> I mean pretty much all um all language is in abstraction. It's it's about >> abstracting and comparing and and distinguishing,
27:40 labeling defining categorizing. These these all seem apparent in the language and the language is um >> but but it's not like language is causing separation and it's not like separation is causing language either. >> It's it's not really like that because there's no such thing as language and and another thing called separation. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> It's it's not quite like black and white, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> there's a tribe in the Amazon that that doesn't have past or future tense apparently. >> Well, in their language or >> Yeah, in their language or counting. So, they can't even tell you how many children they have. >> And they seem very
28:27 >> well, who knows? But they seem very much present. You can't tell, can you? But they they don't seem they seem very chilled out. >> Yeah. They don't even talk about their ancestors at all. They're gone as far as they're concerned. >> Yeah. It's interesting, isn't it? >> I mean, many of the kids I work have I have to kind of not not agree with the possibility that language and separation or if we could put it more like language and the sense of separation. It doesn't seem as as black and white as one causes the other, but there seems to be some kind of interesting situation with a h with a psychophysical structure
29:13 and the way it expresses itself linguistically. Uh, and I say that because many of the children I worked with in the school, um, particularly children with PMLD, which is profound multiple learning difficulties, >> uh, which is like the far end of the spectrum of being differently aabled neurologically, um, are completely nonverbal. They don't speak at all. And these are like up to 16, 17, 18 year old bodies. And perhaps for the rest of their life they will not speak words and very much of the time they do not seem to be experiencing themselves as separate or expressing individuality at all.
29:59 >> I mean it's just pure like sensation or vibrancy expressing as a body. But it doesn't look as though it it feels like there's a someone in there looking out through those eyes and seeing separate people. >> Yeah. >> So that almost kind of validates the possibility that there is a connection, but I'm still reluctant. >> It's not backing my >> Yeah. I'm still reluctant to say that one causes the other because I don't think it's something to do with with the with the way in which bodies communicate through words. I think it's a bit more >> maybe co- appearing but not not one causing the other but co- appearing >> some something like that maybe um yeah
30:44 but but also of course as though this whole sort of centralized energy is just completely not there. The body still speaks. It still speaks in the way much of the way it used to before. >> Yeah. there still the the capacity to to articulate without an articulator. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Thanks. >> Yeah. >> Do you think it's as species you know because obviously we don't have consciousness but >> you know we have able to communicate it myself. Thank you. >> Um
31:30 yeah, that that the mind the human mind is evolved, so we think is evolved more so than an animal, >> you know. >> Yeah. Um I wouldn't say they're more evolved than an animal. I think it's just differently differently >> adapted to the environment. Um, and yeah, that seems to all be part of the appearance, like the details of the empty appearance, >> seeming to appear as, >> you know, Neanderthalss and homo sapiens and and, you know, sea life and birds and whatnot. >> But but all animals are communicating, you know, in the appearance of it. They're all >> they're all communicating in their own unique way. Yeah. And the human just
32:18 seems to be again in the appearance of it. And I say in the appearance of it because we're talking in abstractional terms which implies separation. So nevertheless in the appearance of it. >> Um humans seem to be a particularly complex organism >> or species rather. Yeah. >> When you look at a cat, >> you know, you know, and and and how a cat will come up and wind its tail around your leg. >> Yeah. Yeah. Brush up against your leg. >> Yes. >> And meow. >> Yes. >> Even the blinking. Yeah. Yeah. >> The slow blinking that they do so communicative. >> Yeah.
33:08 But all this um self-t talk, this chatter, this perpetual chatter, do you not? You don't don't get this chatter anymore. >> Well, it's it's not that I don't get it. Yeah, it's just >> not there. >> Yeah, you probably saw that one coming. >> Yeah. No, but the the kind of self critique and the internal dialogue that seems to whip itself round and round. It It's got nothing to stick to. It It doesn't seem to land on anything. It It No one's there listening to it. So it just doesn't seem personalized. Um because when it seems like the the thoughts are revolving around someone, it's kind of doing this
33:55 >> and it and it seems like someone's in there >> witnessing that dialogue. And then the thoughts might seem to be very personalized and individual and identity based. And >> yeah, >> it's just that when you said about, you know, like this, this has a habit of talking out loud to it when there's nobody in the room >> and it just happens and it very often doesn't realize it's happened. >> All right. >> Until you know it, it's just you were saying about that spontaneity. Um, >> and then all of a sudden there is a sort of it's the me I suppose, isn't it? All like, oh, it's talking to itself.
34:42 >> Right. Right. Yeah. Sometimes this will come out with something in the middle of nature. Sometimes it might utter something. Um, but but it's kind of it would seem to be a different quality to that internal dialogue that all of us are probably quite familiar with >> where I'm ruminating and I'm talking about this and I I'm thinking something through and I'm having a conversation with myself >> about what I think I should do or should be doing and >> yeah, there's this the depersonalization of that is is just >> it just isn't orbiting around someone. And that's that's all I can say really is that it's not it's not orbiting around someone. When it seems like it's orbiting around someone, the internal
35:28 dialogue seems very real and personal and that doesn't seem to show up if no one's there to listen to it >> and repetitive sometimes. >> Yeah. Cuz that's the that's the sense of that's why we keep doing this cuz it's like a sense of continuity. M >> it's like there seems to be a momentum of conversation going on and that that feels very cyclic. >> So it seems to be repeating itself as you say >> but if no one's there to watch it it there's no sense how could there be a sense of continuity because it's not it's not happening in time. It's just what immediately appears to be and that doesn't seem to sustain >> an internal chatter or dialogue. Yeah.
36:14 >> Cuz as you were saying earlier on about artists and you know I draw I used to draw a lot. >> Um and exactly that hours could go by and I would have had Yeah. There would have been no recollection. >> Just get lost in it. Yeah. >> Just get lost. completely lost. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And and and I I did drawings when I was younger and I remember picking them up years later >> and just tracing my finger across the lines and I could almost feel the energy of what I was feeling of the time of the picture. >> All right. >> I mean I was an adolescent at the time so there was a lot of energy going on. >> Um so that you know again that's
36:59 >> I just the absence. the absence of >> of anything being there, you know, um maybe at the time that it that it was well, not time, but when it was drawn, you know. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, >> yeah. Yeah. >> Just reminded me when the guys were talking about it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Association is an interesting one. Mhm. >> Like how you could smell a certain fragrance and suddenly a memory is so strongly apparent. Yeah. And it feels like that's connected to an actual past >> where something happened before this. Yeah. >> And you didn't bring it up. You didn't
37:46 you the me >> didn't instigate that memory. >> Yes. Yeah. it just >> until after that that seconds later when it's like oh I've remembered that because I was so and so doing so and so at the time >> but there is that just before that happens just before all that dialogue comes in >> there's that that total space that total nothingness >> really I suppose >> yeah void
38:34 Do you think um an event can cause like uh an energy imprint? for example, a murder and then somebody walks into the house 100 years later and they feel the energy of, you know, a dark energy. >> I'm not going to say it's impossible. >> I mean, all there is is energy and energy can appear however. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Energy is all there is. Yeah. It's another word for nothing and everything. And that that can appear as well what Yeah. I mean I there's a bit of a reluctance to call it dark or light. >> Yeah. Cuz it's not really polarized
39:21 without >> implying duality. >> But yeah, there there can be >> maybe. Yeah, >> there can be the appearance of energies in in places and in bodies and different things. So there could be energy readers, people who can pick up energies possibly. They they it might not be nonsense. They might really be picking up an energy. >> Yeah. >> Don't live here. It's got bad energy. >> I know they they could be just tri it could be a met they could be triggered from, >> you know, a bad childhood and it's blue wallpaper similar. That could be a different thing. But it could be just this energy, unseen energy um from from
40:08 events. Maybe >> it's a bit too story telling to really validate that as actually real, >> but all there is is energy and it's completely impersonal. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But it can appear >> to linger. >> Mhm. >> But that's perceptional. >> Yeah. >> And it's >> it's boundlessness. It's bound tolessness being vibration. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. There's not a murder that happened there and then, is there? >> Yeah. It's like with Aronachula, you know like >> I was just going to talk about that. >> Yeah. Well, there we go. >> Um, yeah. It's like with Aronachula the
40:53 the mountain like that there's nothing special about it although many people would like to believe that and there's nothing there's nothing um without existential you know separating and abstracting it nothing can be said about that however there is a palpable energy >> yeah it's undeniable like it's just vibrational yeah and it's I would suggest it's the same thing like just energy playing as as vibration. Yeah. Yeah. >> So this week I found my fingers typing for airplane tickets >> to go and visit a mountain in India >> and stay at Shivallaya again.
41:39 >> Yeah. >> But I was very aware that it Yeah. I don't know what this means but it my sense is the mel I wasn't doing it. M >> it was like the mountain. >> Yeah. >> It wasn't Yeah. So the whole thing is all just It's not like I want to go. >> Yeah. >> It's just uh very hard to just It's just what's happening. Yeah. >> Just >> is it not in like in the stories of Beggarand he he said that you know the stories that are said >> um the same sort of thing same sort of pull >> I think. So yeah, from what I he was going >> and bang, he ended up in front of this.
42:24 >> But when I went to India, I thought that Bagavan or Ramana >> was >> the pole. >> Yes. >> And what shocked me was this uh apparent mountain. >> Um Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Totally shocked. It absolutely gods smacked me like the effect of it. Yeah. >> Yeah. And it's not even there. >> No, nothing is >> I mean it's total vibrant void. And vibrant void can, you know, to a perception appear more or less vibrant. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It just appears very vibrant. >> Yeah. >> Like a dial of contrast has been turned up slightly or something. But of course,
43:11 it's abstraction to go into that really. So it's it's all equally nothing. But it it seems like it can appear this or that and it's all this really. >> Yeah. >> And it it feels very beautiful not to be going for any reason. >> Yeah. Totally. >> So much of my spiritual life has been I'm going to do that and that will get me there. >> Yeah. Right. Right. >> This has got none of that about it. >> Yeah. >> It's just happening. >> Agenda. Yeah. >> Yeah. And like in a way it's just >> it's probably more enjoyable than Yeah. Exactly. Yeah, that's how it feels. No expectation. >> Just basking. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's lovely.
44:08 >> It's like not It's quite expensive as well. Like this practicality. So that's just all gone out the window. It's just like I don't really choose that. >> Yeah. It's definitely not It's definitely against your apparent rule then. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, there's something about this this apparent energy of having an end goal in
44:54 sight and in mind that can seem very taxing and and uh constricting. Yeah. It's like the entire appearance seems constricted when there's an end goal in sight. It's like the more I strive to get towards or to get to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, the the more deceased and constricted I feel. And and it's like so obviously a a fallacy because you never get there. You just feel like it's going further and further away from you. And that's basically the seeker and the sort in a nutshell. But without that end goal, it's just what is. And it's totally what it is. And it doesn't need it doesn't need a storyline. It doesn't need a a journey and destination. It's just what is.
45:41 Yeah. Total >> freedom. Yeah. I mean it just doesn't have to be any certain way like these notions that you know I have to do this or I should do that I'm supposed to and then it might tell itself stories to contradict or um confront all of that like oh I have to stop seeking now and that then you know then this will be hot >> I have to stop seeking I I I I'm supposed to give up my practices which I feel like they were the the needle to
46:27 remove the thorn. No, there's nothing in the way. Nothing is in the way. >> Yeah. >> There's no conditions to freedom. Yeah. It's all there is. >> But when you've had those when you've been in those those restrictions >> um and and they do drop away, we were talking about it earlier on. Um they um and there's no recollection of it happening. >> Yeah. Not >> because it didn't happen, did it? I mean, it didn't >> it didn't actually happen. So So >> yeah, it's uh >> Yeah. It's only when others other people mention it to me for example when I was
47:13 on as a seeker spiritual journey you know I was talking about the guru and >> so on and so forth um and uh that's all gone >> it's all completely gone >> and it's only when somebody said to me where are you coming today oh god how do I explain this >> yeah what's it Wow. >> Yeah. It's a spiritual thing, isn't it? I said, "It is." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Philosophy. >> Philosophy. Good. Philosophy. >> Yeah. >> I miss that one. But um that's there was this time we there was
48:00 a meeting there was a meeting we attended in London with Alexis and we were on our way home and we're chatting with each other at a bus stop just a group of the attendees. It was quite late and London's quite busy but there was some people there. They said what are you talking about? Who who are you people? And the the response that came was we are philosophers and we get we get we're philosophers then um yeah we're philosophers we get together for meetings >> and then whatever the name was of the guy Max these are philosophers >> they're philosophers >> it was just >> it was just the adequate response at the time can you tell them we're nonduelists and what is it always leads to more and
48:45 more and more philosophy You were digging your digging yourself a right hole. I bet. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I thought you going to say something like, "Well, I have a degree in that." >> Sorry. >> I thought you was going to say something like, "I've got a degree in that." >> We've probably all got a degree in philosophy. Yeah. >> Yeah. Alexis, what you were saying about like um future focus, if you like, that's a term I'm making up. Yeah. Is me >> inherently and incessantly future focus. Future focus. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Future focus. Kind of what if. What if
49:32 or what next? What next? >> Exactly. >> It's like if you were the hamster on the wheel >> and you're imagining that one day I'll get to the end of the wheel. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's that's what the seeking energy is. It's like I'm running on the wheel and sometimes I need a bit of a break, so I'll slow down, but then sometimes I'm really going at it because because I really think I'm I'm eventually going to get to the end of the wheel and it thinks that the falling away of me is the end of the wheel. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And it's like, well, what? No. What does that mean? There's no end of the wheel. Yeah. >> I was going to respond as soon as you
50:18 said the falling away of me is the end of the wheel. I was going to say, "Of course." >> No. Is it not that the Because >> because there is no end, is there? There's no end to >> Oh, you can't get Yes. Yes. Yes. >> There's no end to the dream of continuity. Yeah. But it's always in its own illusion and misperception of continuity, seeing an end goal. But that end goal never shows up. It never shows up cuz it doesn't exist. It's it's an illusion. Yeah. The end of the wheel is an illusion. And because the hamster is in the wheel, it can't see how it's going round and around. It can't see that. It's It's like Yeah. It's kind of stuck in a way in a cyclic loop heading nowhere. Yeah. >> Confused. >> Yeah. It's a kind of confusion of being
51:06 oriented. It's like disorienting. disorientatingly oriented. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think confusion might be too light a term. Delusion. >> Delusionally caught up. Cuz confusion might be okay. I was thinking of going that way. Maybe there's a bit of traffic. Go that way. I'm a bit confused. And but delusion means it's perpetually caught up and can't see anything past that >> past that loop. Yeah.
51:53 So as though that hamstery energy just to carry on with that metaphor because it's fun and this is fun as well doing this with the hand. Um, it's like as though that slows down or even just, you know, huffing and buffing and just stops. That's not the end of the wheel. It's just stopped turning it, you know, and it thinks that that's a destination. No, that's the absence of going after a destination. Well, then, you know, it's like that. Yeah, that's that's continuity, I think, in a nutshell. It's like it's not it's not getting to the end of continuity. It's just that the the sort of sense of getting is not happening. Yeah. Yeah.
52:43 >> You say but nowhere to get to but there's also nowhere to stay. >> Right. Exactly. Yeah. Because because the power of now or without disrespect to teachers, you know, no don't mean any of that, but yeah, the sense of staying like staying or being, you know, and just stay or just be it. It's still a subtle kind of, you know, creeping in of >> cuz that energy is always and only ever anticipating change. And so to stay is still a kind of motion. >> It's just a more it would seem to be a more subtle one to that energy of seeking for a better thing. >> I think if it just stays here or just
53:28 just be here now, it's still kind of anticipating that that's going to lead to something. >> Yeah. Even if it means I'll just be constantly now then that it's it can't not anticipate that that's going to have some kind of beneficial implication. >> Yeah. >> Kind of restless, isn't it? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. And um it's total innocence, you know. There's nothing wrong with that at all. But I mean, I'm talking about it on an existential sense of desperately wanting and needing something to happen. Because in the sense of there just being this simple enjoyment of exercises that help to calm the nervous system, well, that's
54:16 just, you know, that's just what appears to be happening. Like enjoying, you know, tea or coffee or biscuits or steak. Yeah. Or salad. Yeah. Cuz seeking is not wrong. It's not in the way. It's the claim that something's in the way. And so if it heard that to stay here is the antidote to seeking is like it's obviously a misinterpretation.
55:02 You know that there's nowhere to get to and there is nowhere to stay. And that kind of covers all bases. Yeah. It covers all bases that there's no that there's you can't make a right or a wrong step towards or away from the absolute because that's all there is. Yeah. Yeah.
56:00 time is so convincing. >> Um, so for example, my friend Crispen, I've never met him >> apparently. >> Crispen. >> Yeah. So I've never met him. I would see. But from what you're saying, I've never met him cuz there's no time. >> And there's no one. >> Yeah. >> That's so hard to to get my head around. >> I think it's impossible to be honest. >> Yeah. >> But uh if we could be just a little bit picky with words, there's an apparent distinction made between the word time and continuity. Yeah. Uh so time we could say is is not necessarily an
56:47 illusion. It's just the appearance of memory, idea and thought which obviously by saying those words makes them sound like things. >> So already even that is in abstractional terms but nevertheless memory, thought, idea that's time that's that's what appears to be happening. uh continuity is an illusion because it doesn't actually even appear to happen. All we ever find is what what immediately appears to be happening. We never actually find continuity. We never find 5 seconds ago. We never find 5 years, 10 years, however many. >> Mhm. >> We never actually find a measurement of time. Like
57:33 >> it all you ever find is what is >> immediately what is and that would include memories and ideas and thoughts. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But within that there are preferences. >> Yeah. Well, preference would just be another appearance. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's kind of this again it's like this storytelling energy which as you say seems so convincing. The storytelling energy seems so energetically convincing that this this appearance really seems to be moving. >> Yeah. >> Cuz we could both be interviewed about our last walk we had together and we
58:20 would come up with the same things. We walked here >> and we talked about this. >> Probably talked about you actually. >> Um yes. So that's even more convincing. But but it's all I Yeah, I guess it's all >> it's all immediately. >> I do believe but I I find you don't have to. >> Yeah, but I do. But it's it's really it's really realistic that that illusion or Yeah. >> So there's an appearance of Yeah. No, I don't fully get it. Do you think it's a feeling of loss that you might lose? >> No. No. I have no worry about it or fear
59:05 or >> or loss. Sadness. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's You see, it seems like if there's a subject in this appearance, this appearance seems to be moving and changing >> and I'm watching moving and changing happening. And that's kind of a distorted and misperception of this reality that there's a subject that's the thread, the underpinning thread to the reality. And that reality is is moving and shifting and changing like waves on an ocean or tide. But someone is behind it watching it come and go, eb and flow, change. >> And that's an illusion. That's the illusion of continuity right there. Without that subjective illusurary center, there's only what immediately
59:51 appears to be happening and memories, ideas thoughts talking association you know, talking about this and that, talking about the past, reminiscing. It's it's all what's immediately showing up. It's energetic. It's not it's not conceptual. It's energetic. >> So, my car doesn't exist right now. >> Nothing does. >> It does. Probably doesn't anyway. Nothing exists. Yeah, existence is separated. >> So, I used to think maybe like my car would only exist the moment I turned around the corner where it was and then I see it and then it's there as needed. If that makes sense. But when it, you know, right now when I'm not near my car, it's an idea. >> Yeah. >> And then it becomes >> then it comes into existence when I observe it. >> Yeah.
1:00:37 >> Which is like shroding cat. >> Yeah. >> But there's no subject to know whether the cat is alive or dead. Yeah. >> Or both or neither. >> You mentioned this recently in a talk, I believe. Amsterdam, maybe. >> Maybe. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because even when the car is appearing, it still doesn't exist. >> Yeah. Unless it seems like someone's looking at it. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> But if there's no one there to look at it, it doesn't exist. Nothing. >> So, it's all appearance basically. >> Yeah. There's only this appearance, >> but there is no subject to which this is appearing. >> Mhm. >> Which is also an appearance. I guess the
1:01:22 subject >> I would suggest it isn't an appearance. I would suggest it's an illusion. >> Yeah. >> So again, just for word sake, >> there's a there's a distinction made between the word appearance and the word illusion. The latter doesn't appear to happen. Yeah. >> Can you talk more about the difference between illusion and >> Yeah. >> And I know you have been asked this question before, but the difference between illusion and >> appearance. >> Yeah. So this appearance is all there is. It's it's another synonym, not cinnamon.
1:02:09 We had a good laugh about that yesterday. >> I'll tell I'll tell you in a second. Um, appearance is a synonym um for everything and nothing. It's neither real nor unreal because it's not a thing. It isn't actually a thing to be real or unreal. It's all there is. So, you know, it can't be labeled and defined. But again for the sake of language sensing feeling flooring you know, whatever seems to be appearing is just what seems to be appearing. But it's not really appearing to something. It's not it's not an objectified appearance. It's not a screen appearance. It's total. It's total appearance. It's the absolute. It's the
1:02:56 unconditional. And that's that is absolutely all there is. The illusion is that there's someone and in that illusion are other illusions or illusory misperceptions. Being continuity, autonomy, location. >> Yeah. Okay. I think I think I get it. I can't put it into words, but I think I get it. >> And those things aren't actually really appearing to happen. Yeah. >> They're not they're not actually appearing to happen >> because you can't even see the person. No. >> Okay. You can see. So, so the bodies are the appearance, but the person is the illusion. >> Yeah, that's one way of putting it. Yeah. >> Yeah.
1:03:43 >> Thank you. >> Yeah. you imagine the shape of of the inside of a tornado. Like the shape of inside the tornado seems to be conditioned by the the the tornado itself. But actually if if that sort of illusory uh energy is isn't there there's nothing actually in there. And it's no different to what's on the apparent I know I'm distinguishing and abstracting too much. But but it's like there isn't actually something in there. There's nothing in there. It's the same as what's outside. It's like >> a child with with a teddy bear. And the the child may see the teddy bear as
1:04:29 having a personality >> and being his friend, his or her friend. >> That that's the illusion. But the teddy bear is the appearance. >> Just what appears to be happening. Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. Just the appearance. Teddy bearing. >> Yeah. >> But it's great being a child and having imaginary friends and all that stuff. Yeah. >> It's really embarrassing. I saw my teddy bear from childhood recently. Wonderful. >> And and he was looking at me with such love I nearly cried. >> Oh, how sweet. >> It's just like Yeah.
1:05:15 >> Does he have a name or >> No. No. >> Yeah. But it felt really powerful weirdly and embarrassingly as well. >> Oh, it's lovely. >> Mhm. >> Well, adults are just children in disguise, of course. Mhm. >> Yeah. Growing up isn't a reality. That's why I thought I'd give myself pigtails today, cuz we're all children here.
1:06:12 I always remember um this girl, my daughter when she was little, thank you. Um she said to me, I was trying to explain something to her. She must have been about three and um I was trying to explain something and she said to me, "No, no, no, mommy. No, my bubble is this big >> and your bubble is this big. >> Ah, >> and wow. >> As an artist, I was like, "Oh, that's interesting." Um, so that means that the bubbles get big and then they go back down to where, you know, like like like the bubble that she was living in. >> It made total sense. >> How interesting. Mhm.
1:06:58 >> Yeah. >> I mean, the wisdom of children is just absolutely astonishing. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. >> It's as you said just now, you know, we're all we're all children and it's that um as children I I always thought it felt they're the most intelligent humans >> that we ever are really, you know. >> Yeah. M >> I've said it at least two times before in meetings, but I'm going to say it again because it's lovely. Um there's this beautiful um this beautiful uh statement or phrase
1:07:43 that Queen Alag makes in the the the show Vikings. Um she says uh I sometimes think that children are the wisest of us all and growing up is just a process of forgetting. >> Yeah. Which I just [ __ ] loved. >> Yeah. Brilliant. >> Yeah. And here they are, you know, all these adults, you know, running around looking as though they know >> what they're doing. >> Yeah. what they're doing and what they're talking about and who they are and who everyone else is and how this should be. >> Yeah. >> And that's just the play really. It's just the play. >> Yeah.
1:08:50 By the way, if we were having a competition for who's wearing the best socks today, I would definitely have to say that the sofa is like seriously good because those are fantastic. Like there's rainbow socks which are seriously impressive, but then TMNT like that's incredible. >> Yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing. I actually want some. >> I mean, I think I don't know which ones. I think TMNT for me is like just cuz I really like them. >> Yeah, >> it's Christmas. It's also my birthday in like two or three weeks. So, if anyone has any ideas, I've just given you an idea. TMNT socks.
1:09:37 >> Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Have you Have you heard of it? >> I think I might have. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's classic. >> Yeah. So, that's that's the most important thing you'll probably hear from me all day. >> Yeah. These aren't very good, I'm afraid. Mind you, if it was a best shirt competition, we obviously know who that's going to be.
1:10:37 Oh, I think I know the answer, but do you think there could ever be a global mass awakening? just like spontaneously. And I think you're going to say, "Well, anything can happen." >> I promise this isn't scripted. >> Yeah. So, um I'm not really that keen on the word awakening. Um for a start, it sounds like something really significant and
1:11:24 sparkly and special. Um, and really I think that there there isn't anyone to be awakened and there isn't anyone to be asleep either. Um, and as though an energetic centralized visceral centered thing uh seems to be falling apart, it it it can't really legitimately or accurately be described as an awakening because there's no nothing is actually waking up to this. It's just a falling apart of a sense of someone being awake. >> So in that sense, it's more like falling asleep >> at the wheel. >> Do you think there could be a global falling asleep? >> A global asleepening. Um
1:12:11 it it seems as though more and more bodies are are seeming to take an interest in this and the the openness of their you know the possibility that there is no one there's no doer. >> But of course because that leaves no center behind there's there isn't actually loads of people that are now no one. >> Yeah. >> There's no distinction and distinguishment. So it is in the story and in the appearance of it, but it does seem like in that appearance there are more more bodies coming across this. >> And it also seems particularly in the UK >> to me, but maybe that's because I'm in the UK. >> I'm not going to suggest that the British are better at anything or worse
1:12:58 than any anyone else. Um yeah. Yeah. I mean it's like to go into that kind of makes it sound like something is happening and that even that something that's happening is something special happening as though there was an appearance where there are things going on and and in this little island here there are these bodies dropping people dropping away or whatever. Um and it and it may well appear like that. Yeah. But then who knows you know two and a half thousand years ago in uh ancient India may maybe there was you know in in the story line there may have been uh someone revolving around this chap
1:13:43 called Sedartha and you know then it's like >> yeah yeah >> and it all looks it all looks like cause and effect is happening you know to a perceiver of continuity. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, and yes, anything can appear to happen, right? >> Anything can appear to happen. >> See, I finished with that just so I just so I didn't look like I was coping out on you or something. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Can we speculate what that world would look like? >> I mean, you can, but I can't I can't really actually claim to know what it would look like or you want me to speculate, do you?
1:14:29 Mike say again I >> I don't think it would look very much different to be honest. I mean I I think even the word difference is in is in separation. in terms of it's really kind of sticky with the language to say this is what would happen and this is what it would look like which is why there's kind of apprehension to go into that because it kind of validates that there is a reality of separation and there just isn't already however there there may be you know more of a naturalness I I mean like I mean naturalness as in there there just is the immediiacy and the naturalness. There might be like if if this existential seeking isn't
1:15:16 appearing, then there might be apparent differences in institutions and the way in which people seem to relate to each other because there aren't people to relate to each other and there aren't games to be played and there aren't Yeah. It's like there isn't this existential seeking for something higher or greater or more. >> Yeah. Yeah. more anarchic. >> It could be more anarchic in some ways. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> To whom >> exactly I mean to say that the world, for example, to say that the world would be better off is obviously nonsense
1:16:02 because better is relative. It's that would have to demand a subject to feel that it's better. To say that it would be more relaxed is the same thing. You know, that there would be less wars is the same thing. >> To say that there would be more peace or less this, you know, it's all it's too abstractional really. The the the absence of separation does not relate to separation. Do you see like the if there's a if there's a sense of a center and then there's not a sense of a center that's already a dualistic situation which is why it's said that already there's no one because the there's no before and after without separating all before and
1:16:47 after in every sense just doesn't really compute. So it's not a reality to actually make any difference or similarity. Yeah, we'd have to tell a story and the stories are relative and they're not real. Yeah. >> But in with with you with what happened or didn't happen >> but the dropping away, >> your life's changed >> in the story line. Yeah. >> In the story line, hasn't it? Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Which he had no idea that was >> Yeah. Yeah. Um
1:17:33 Yeah. Cuz I I would I I would suggest that um you know that in the story line of Alexis, things apparently became more relaxed and less serious. >> And there's still joy and sadness ebbing and flowing in the apparent storyline of it. Um, but none of it's a problem. Yeah. And none of it revolves around anything. >> And I if if I was if the if this was close-minded, it would suggest that that's how the rest of the world would be. But it's like, well, what can you how could I say that? >> Because it can't speak on behalf of a whole population really. It can't speak on behalf of a species. It can't say
1:18:19 that everyone is going to be more relaxed or everyone is going to be less serious because that's that's just too subjective really. >> So which is why it's a storyline to to suggest that even this changed. Yeah. And I know it's a total copout but it can't you know it can't be >> validated that there would be change without separating. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So it's a disappointing answer I'm afraid. Yeah, but all I can say is yeah, there could be there could be really dynamic shifts and changes, but only in the story line would that seem to be the case because ultimately all there is is this and this is not is not morable or
1:19:05 lessable. >> Yeah. It's not comparable >> and there wouldn't be anybody there to be able to compare right >> whether it was >> right. So, so those kinds of questions are they don't compute to an absolute exposure. They're kind of relative questions basically and it's very very difficult to to answer them satisfyingly without stepping into that relative landscape and saying this is what would happen. >> Yeah. which, you know, I have no problem saying like doing and and going into those abstractions, but it's just disclaimed the hell out of because because it's um Yeah. It's not it's not real. >> Yeah. All that stuff isn't actually as real as it might seem to be.
1:19:51 >> Yeah. Yeah. So it appears to be playful that we're just sitting here and and talking or not talking really there's just naturally again to repeat oneself apparently to apparently repeat oneself apparently is that there's just the play of talking and not talking listening sitting and there's no there's no requirement in a way that's what's I would I'd like to suggest playfully so that that that's what's so lovely about these uh these gatherings is that there's no nothing is required. Nothing is required. There's no expectation. There's no demands. No
1:20:37 nervous system is is demanded to to respond or react to this in a certain way to show up a certain way to meet a desired outcome. There's just naturally what is appearing and every imaginable sensation, any thought or contemplation that may appear, it just all is the directionlessness. And without being given a direction that there there appears to be the eb and flow of comfort and discomfort for some bodies and some bodies may feel very relaxed in that and that's when you know the word basking comes up because it's just like there's just the the apparent ease which of course I'm not suggesting
1:21:22 that's the intention because there isn't one but there can incidentally appear to be an ease in the lack or absence of direction and sense of destination that is so open. so open and there can also be a discomfort about that. Of course, in the same way like this this like it would seem like in the in the terms of cause and effect which is also separate based in case you didn't realize. But uh that sort of lack or absence of a sense of direction can be comforting, but it can also be incredibly discomforting because one could be so used to feeling like they're
1:22:09 going somewhere, getting something, making progress, and anticipating what's next. And of course, comfort or discomfort is no more or less this, you know, and it might seem to dance from one to another, where it may seem more apparent for one than the other. And it's all just what is. And that that's just an appearance. It would seem the appearance of sitting quietly and enjoying sitting quietly for no reason at all, having a chat, asking questions, saying whatever comes up and it's just what is. It's all and only ever what is. Yeah. But it just isn't really actually contextualized,
1:22:55 put into a a category. So then it's just Yeah. that's just sitting, talking, listening, sitting quietly or whatever. Yeah. But, uh, there's no there's nothing to get right or wrong. And that would be part of the nothing's required energy. No one makes a mistake. No one asks a a bad question or a good question. I mean, sometimes I say that's a good question, but but there are no good or bad questions, and there's no good or bad remarks. Yeah.
1:23:52 Everything is innocent.
1:24:52 Heat. What's tickling you >> with the video? I I'm I'm quite eager to have a look at it actually. Although I'm not going to stop mid session, but
1:25:38 >> it's also you take the video. But it's also amusing that that's going to be, you know, like visible for the for everyone to see. >> Maybe not. I think >> Oh, okay. >> Oh, fair enough. >> You can have it. >> Yeah, >> I can definitely. >> Maybe I'll I'll crop it or something. >> Okay. >> Extracurric extracurricular activities. >> Recreational and fitness activities. >> Yes. >> Recreational fitness. It starts with your bottom. Very prominent. >> Oh, right. Right. >> That wasn't Alex's backside.
1:26:30 >> Is it rhythmic? >> Is it rhythmic? Jesus Christ. >> That wasn't one aspect. That wasn't of the program or an objective of the program. >> Oh my god. >> That's extracurricular activities, fitness exercise cities blending in, blending out. Oh my.
1:27:17 It's a gloriously indignifying exposure cuz nothing belongs to anyone. There's no one for which this belongs to. Yeah. No doer, no ownership. No relationship.
1:28:14 Baby, heat. I was going to ask about physical pain. >> So, I was at the dentist the last two
1:29:00 weeks. had um two root canals in my >> Oh, yeah. >> there. >> I was just curious about this idea of continuity and physical pain >> cuz it very much felt at times like >> Oh, yeah. >> This is continual >> ongoing pain and all the stories, but as well as >> moments of truly just there just being pain and >> no one watching it >> and everything in between. Yeah. Just kind of curious your take on uh physical pain, be it in the fingers or >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Right. >> I suppose that's what sparked it, you know, you were talking about when you >> Yeah. >> So like what what is what is pain from
1:29:45 this perspective and >> Yeah. I mean obviously pain is an appearance. There's the appearance of pain regardless of if it seems to be owned by someone or not. Um, and endurance can seem very visceral and real because that's a that's a kind of pain that I would seem to own >> because I if something's going on seemingly for a long damn time there can be there kind of seem to be a lot of suffering in that. >> Um, yeah. I guess the it's it's tricky, isn't it? because the the language is not going to accurately elaborate on that. But yeah,
1:30:31 even if one is not sensing continuity, there can still be pain apparently prolonged. Like for example, you know, going to the dentist and having that or or a tattoo >> because that's that's kind of what apparently came up when you were saying that for for this because I you know I've had like 8hour sessions >> and the first hour, you know, it's it's it's not too bad. But 7 hours in, that's quite different cuz the nervous system in the story line is tired >> after six or seven hours. Yeah, >> that the body is responding differently, shall we say? >> And in the storyline of that, it would
1:31:17 look as though Yeah. that the continuity is needed for it to be more painful then than it is at the beginning, >> cuz at the beginning it's it seems somewhat bearable. But then, you know, so we're describing >> we're describing that implying continuity. And yet it isn't already continuous. It's already actually not continuous. >> So uh sensation and vibration essentially
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