0:10 So um yeah, what is this about? Well, this is about this really. This is about this the utter simplicity of what appears to be happening. And it's it it really is simple. Actually, I like the word simple and simplicity. There's nothing fancy or complex about it. There's nothing that needs to be conceptually or intellectually analyzed to the depth. There's nothing to be understanding comprehending or figuring out. I do like to play with words, terms, concepts, and suggestions. They just outpour out of this out of this total appearance. But it really is utterly abundantly simple.
0:56 that there's just sitting in a room hanging out chatting [snorts] and we can we can chat about whatever really and uh that that's it. That's just the simplicity of what appears to be happening and stories can appear. Storytelling can show up but th this is not sensed as real. Basically, the story is about where this appearance comes from or where it could go or my life, my life as an individual, a separate self with continuity and free will and choice and those things, right? Certain misperceptions are free to appear, but essentially without an illusion of separation, which perhaps I'll elaborate on in a second, there there is just
1:41 simply what appears to be happening and no one knows it. There's no one in what's happening. There's no one within this appearance. There just is this appearance. And I know that that sounds totally barmy and perhaps ridiculous for those who have never heard of such an exposure before. But actually it's totally not not only is it totally simple, it's totally natural that the natural reality of there just being sitting and listening and talking and sounds and vibration and whatever. Um, yeah, it's so it's totally simple. It's totally natural. And my other favorite word is ordinary. So it's simple, natural, and ordinary that there just is this. I mean it's far too simple for for
2:29 comprehension. It's far too natural for any kind of application of that of some kind of practice or process to go through. And it's far too ordinary for imagination and storytelling about something else other than what appears to be happening. If there isn't anything else other than what appears to be happening, then this is totally absolutely complete. It's full. It's free. It's it's in a way you could say it's fulfilled. It's it's totally whole all by itself. It doesn't this appearance doesn't need anything. It doesn't need to become or change. It doesn't need to progress into a new thing. It's just totally timelessly what
3:16 it is. And there's a stark liberation in that. a liberation so open, so wide open that it's utterly unattainable. It's nothing to do with someone accomplishing or or getting or you know becoming something special or unique. It's just the simple impersonal revelation that this is already this is already the absolute. This is already unconditional love. This is already freedom. Total freedom. But it's not the freedom or love that a particular perception wanted to have that that it could have on its own terms. And that's where the dream that's where the dream comes into this appearance. It would seem a dreamt
4:03 reality of there feeling to be something or someone located that there could appear or seem to appear to be someone that is aware of what's happening and that is a subject object world. If it seems like that's the case then everything I just said will almost certainly not seem true. [laughter] It will almost certainly not seem to correlate to that perception which feels itself to be located in space and time that this is a separate reality. It is happening to me. I'm aware of what's happening and I am choosing how to navigate this world, this life, this existence at large.
4:49 And that that is exposed as an illusion. Not with any intention to change it because it's not really happening. But the the illusion is that there would be a claim that someone is here distant from the the sounds and the sights, the smells, the tastes, the textures, distant from the things that appear to be happening, distant from the thoughts, even the memories, the ideas. And all of that is not real yet. So already there's no one to live or die essentially. Already there's no one actually living a present life with [snorts] a continuous reality unfolding before them. And already there is no separate located center to which any of
5:36 this revolves around. And already there is no doer within a human body that chooses what to think about this. how to feel, how to think, how to behave, how to act. There's no doer. It's not real. It's not actually there. It's just energetically a a visceral psychossematic whirlwind which feels like it's viscerally stored here and that is exposed as a an artificial reality. There's no intention to change that. It's just exposed as an unreal phenomena. In the absence of that it's again just simply this just simply sitting listening talking
6:22 quietly having you know thoughts appearing or not uh sensations appearing or not whatever is happening doesn't need a meaning to be applied to it. It doesn't need some kind of grand purpose or design to to be going somewhere. It's already divinely whole and fulfilled. But that's unconditional which means it's the good, the bad, and the ugly and the beautiful. It's unpolarized. So everything is that everything is aquinomously, neutrally and unconditionally this totality and that's it really. And we can talk more about the nature of seeking and how that comes in the appearance. We can talk about what seems to show up for certain bodies and people
7:07 and ideologies and belief systems that may appear and and those things can also seem to unravel in a way if there was like seemingly an openness or a receptivity to this dynamic exposure. Certain things can kind of seem to fall off as it were like dust and debris from an existential tornado or clothes like garments just kind of stripping off of the appearance [snorts] and what's left is the raw naked totality this abundance already absolute already absolute. Yeah. Yeah. So, we're we're free to to basically talk about this, talk around it. Don't
7:53 be shy. [laughter] Let's have some fun. It's not something to be taken all that seriously. It's just a playful uh opportunity to dialogue, to to chat. Hello. Sorry. >> That's all right. Welcome. >> Thank you. And yeah, we'll just see see how we go, where we go, what what what we, you know, step into as it were. But essentially, it's already done. It's already complete. There's no conclusion. There's no outcome. There's no goal. Nothing is required. No one needs to be a certain way. No one needs to believe this. No one needs to accept it. No one needs to agree or disagree. Whatever this this appears as in terms of response is totally it's it's always and
8:40 only ever this. It's so equinimous in that sense. It's like the mother who unconditionally loves her children. Whether the child is is being angry or sad or joyful, whether the whether it's a tantrum or it's not some some tantrum, it's all like it's all embraced. Whatever response or reaction, agreement disagreement resistance ridicule, rejection or total embrace and lovingness is all equally this. [snorts] It is so that really is the nature of unconditional love is that this appearance doesn't see more or less, better or worse. It doesn't see anything wrong or right with anything because
9:26 it's everything. It's all there is. So it never makes a wrong or right step. It never goes higher or lower or more or less better or worse. Those are just polarities that are empty appearances. Well, nothing's wrong or right with wrong or right. It just is what it is. Yeah. It's simple. It's totally totally simple. Yeah. I mean, all of that is in a way complicating it. There's just this essentially if we had to, you know, sort of like dial it down in terms of the most utter abundantly simple phrase. There's just this simply this what appears to be happening. Yeah.
10:17 Leora. >> Oh no. Cafe. Say let go.
11:20 I think it's the seat in the house. That is so good. Right. >> This is mine. This is mine from now. >> Yeah. It's just claimed. This is permanently the Theo chair now. The chair's been claimed, Brendan. >> And [laughter] you can you can even spin around as well. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like a Bond villain or something. Yeah. [laughter] [snorts] >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. All he needs is a white cat. [clears throat] >> Yeah. Like Blofeld from James Bond. Yeah. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Thanks. >> And if you sit cross-legged in it, you also sort of emit a guru kind of vibe. >> Yeah, >> like that. [laughter] >> I think it looks better with that.
12:07 >> Got to match it. >> But you're colorcoded as well. I know I'm making a big deal about this color, am I? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. >> [snorts] >> Well, I mean, it's just, you know, in incidental, isn't it? Yeah.
13:20 Have you been to meetings before? >> I didn't think I needed to ever come to another one and then >> Oh, >> here they said maybe a good idea. >> Oh, okay. You seen someone before like Andreas? >> I started Oh, no. I started with Tony when you started. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. >> So, quite a while ago then. >> A long while ago. >> Yeah. Gosh. >> Wow. What was that ' 90s or something? Uh yes, must have been. Yeah, he was 70. >> Yeah. Wow. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> All over the place. >> M >> Hall. >> Yes. Yes. >> Sbury. Dublin. >> Uh-huh. >> Yeah. Amsterdam or
14:08 >> No. >> I didn't go to Amsterdam. M >> when I went to Berlin to see Kens. >> All right. >> You know of him? >> I know of him. Yes. Yes. Was that recently or? >> No. No. But I haven't been anywhere recently. >> Yeah. Just you came up out of the blue. >> Mhm. So, [laughter] >> and bare bones and that's what I love to >> bare bones. >> Yeah, you get it all done. >> Uh-huh. >> That was very interesting to me. Very appealing. >> A >> director
15:36 The directness of what's being shared is quite stunning. Um and somehow in the simplicity of it, the absence of an instruction or a direction given is can be quite disorienting. It seems like energetically the absence of validation is yeah that can be quite disorienting energetically like there's no there's no path given there's no instruction. There's no teaching or advice. There's just an open exposure of what is and and it can be liberating but it can be also tremendously disorienting. It can be confusing. It can be even upsetting. Uh can can be quite upsetting. And yet there there's
16:24 not always a knowing as to why. But it's so it's so wide open and a particular perception lives in and as a reality of confinement so that it doesn't quite match up with what it perhaps is used to and that that openness is is a compassionate liberating exposure but it's not always it's not always comfortable and sometimes it can be tremendously liberating and freeing but it is liberation unconditional. So it's it's so it's so wide open. Like I I like this word wide open somehow or other. Yeah. Recently. Yeah. Wide open. Totally open. Yeah. Nelson in the
17:15 >> in the non-path does it not become a sort of path or instruction or guidance or just us gathering and listening to you has an element of opening to another way. H yeah, it it seems like not not through the doing of someone but just through an open exposure of this which is all there is that there can seem to be an openness or receptivity and to to that particular perception it feels like something's happening like something's changing. When it when we talk about resonance or glimpses, it it looks like and only to that perception does it look like something is actually changing. Uh
18:00 because it's it's a world view of continuity, but actually it's the whole sense of continuity as we know it falling apart. Um but it can't it can't really conceive of that being a a timeless unh happening. Um but yes, the the openness of it without direction, destination, journeys, paths, it's just it's so I mean I really don't know any other word for it at this moment to to other than just to say it's so open. It's so so open. There's no edge. There's no boundary to this which is all there is. And there can be a great deal of relief in that. Yeah, it can be
18:47 energetically relieving. Yes. Like some I mean I think I would describe it for for this body only and perhaps for some others. It was like a cosmic straight jacket was like falling off of the body. It was actually felt like it was falling off of the the entire appearance, not just a a body, but it felt like certain straps were kind of being dislocated. And in that is like a total cosmic breath of fresh air. Yeah. Now, I know I'm kind of glorifying that by talking about it as some sort of happening. And it's not meant to sound like something holy or significant or special.
19:32 But it's kind of a Yeah. Like the entire appearance just goes. [sighs] >> It's like the sigh of all sides. The sigh of all sigh. Yeah. Yeah. >> Actual death of the body. >> Yes. >> Complete relaxation. >> Yes. Yes. Absolutely. The sigh of all sides. The sigh of all sides. Yeah. I like that. Yeah. Yeah.
20:52 something um >> thinking right >> um what occurred to me is that um you hear quite often this is the end of suffering Uffing >> M >> and um people like that end of suffering. Wow. >> Yes. >> But then I think also the end of happiness [laughter] >> as we know it. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. There's suffering for no one and happiness for no one. >> Mhm. >> Just happening. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I thought that was quite funny. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yes. The end of suffering is the end of
21:40 me. It's the end of me going after the end of suffering. Yeah. That's quite dynamic. Yeah. And it's like death is is imagined as a thing that I fear more than anything. But it's not actually a thing. It's the absence of a thing. Yeah. Now that seems scary to a perception that feels itself to be life and the polarity between life and death as though there was two. But actually, no, it's it's not like that. It's not like that. It's the it's the merging the the illusory merging of all polarities and dualities. It's and that's totally unknowable. Wonderfully so. Yeah. [snorts]
22:46 Um, can I ask about the heart? >> Yeah. So I'm just wondering how the where the heart fits into non duality because going back to the puzzle and the pieces of the puzzle. >> So you got the whole puzzle unconditionally love in the puzzle. >> Mhm. And then you've got this experience of the puzzle pieces and but I don't see it as just the puzzle pieces and the whole >> right >> in the individual puzzle pieces there are hearts beating there's breath being taken >> right yeah >> um and there's a sacred triad it's not a
23:33 diad of because the sacred is in those pieces. >> It's all there is. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, back to then these hearts that are here kind of speaks a bit to the place of sorrow happiness. [snorts and clears throat] >> You know, people say follow your heart or let your heart tell your mind what it doesn't know. M >> where does that fit in this? >> Well, intuition is is an appearance, but there there isn't actually a separate self to follow or not follow. [snorts] Um,
24:20 it depends what we mean by the word heart because it's quite an ambiguous word, isn't it? I mean, apparently it's an organ and apparently it's a chakra and apparently it's also a metaphor for >> you know energies of certain kinds. You know they say follow your heart or or place your heart upon or >> you know um listen to your heart all that stuff. But already the intelligence of the body is quite naturally intuitively doing its thing. Um, but it can seem to be confused when it's married up with a particular perception that's been mistaken for an individual with autonomy that could with with autonomy do things
25:08 the right way or the wrong way or or align with the other jigsaw pieces. Um, and that's it's not quite like that that there isn't really a separate self to follow the heart or or not follow the heart, to listen to the heart or to ignore it. Um, yeah, all emotionality, thoughts, feelings and sensations are are equally this. And there can be the appearance of confusion and clarity. There can be the appearance of intuition or not intuition. Yeah, there can be pain, there can be pleasure, it can seem polarized cuz all all things seem to live in
25:56 juxiposition to all other things. And that would be the fragments of a jigsaw puzzle. But the absolute doesn't see more or less. It doesn't see polarity cuz it's all it's all there is. It's everything unabracted. And can't it be the dance of both in as much as there's the whole complete >> absolute unconditional and the experience of that kind of paradox of being. >> Um when it seems like there's a perception coming and going then it seems like there's a flicking [snorts] between a jigsaw puzzle and an unabracted hole. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But as though a particular perception leaves
26:43 then there's no sense of jigsaw puzzle. There's just whole just absolute. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of an inability to see it as an abstracted fragmented reality because it's not there isn't something there to be sensing it that way. Yeah. I'm still curious about this realm though because >> which realm? Well,
27:32 um, well, the realm of having a beating heart and breath >> because in the absence of breath, we're in that nonplace called death that we don't know what that is, but it's >> my imagining is we go to that absolute place of the whole. Um, so I I this is what I'm left with cuz I am really intrigued and I really enjoy being in your company. I enjoy your stillness and presence >> if that's a thing because [laughter] >> it's all right. Carry on. Um [laughter] I guess I'm I'm and [snorts] I know the
28:18 mind you know as soon as you start trying to make sense of anything with the mind you're bit lost really because it's not going to that's not where the mystical's found however >> where am I going um yes so I was asking about it's like in the experience of being human which I know is nebulous here. >> Um >> let me just give an example like this. So if you have an apple and you're hungry and you eat that apple. >> Yeah. >> And then you might on another level experience the apple. It's like oh my god I can really taste the juiciness and it's so sweet and delicious and yummy. >> And then on another I guess you call sacred level. It's like >> God made this apple. >> Oh my god.
29:03 >> Right. >> And those three things exist. >> Yeah. >> Sort of. It's it's still it's still the jigsaw puzzle way of seeing it all, you see. And it's quite ironic that you use the the the metaphor of an apple because that is exactly how the garden of Eden depicts the jigsaw puzzle coming into reality is that she ate from the tree of knowledge between good and evil. And as soon as that first bite was taken, then suddenly it seemed like there was a separate apple, a separate bite, separate body, separate tree, a separate deity. And it's like everything is suddenly fragmented. But in that the absence or prior in the
29:49 timeline to the bite, there was no distinction. There was no between. Everything is the sacred. Everything is the divine because it's unconditional and it's unlimited. It's the bite. It's the apple. It's the It's the body. It's the sky. It's it's undicernable because it's absolute unconditional and total. It can't not be everything. That's what that's what the absolute really means. Um so it's not like there's this other reality floating up somewhere else which then imposes or or you know uh bestows or bestows grace down onto a relative reality because there there are there's not a relative reality down here and an
30:35 absolute reality up there. It's all it's all the absolute and the relativity is the is in a way the dream of looking for that the dream of chasing for it or trying to find it or trying to limit it define it and it's it's not discernable. Yeah. And it's not knowable. Therefore Yeah. >> Just for clarity. Did you say she ate the apple? >> And I think that's how the story started, isn't it? >> That's interesting. >> Not that it was Eve's fault, of course. E Eve Eve The wonder the wonder is is
31:23 that Eve Eve didn't know any better because she didn't know until she knew. Yeah. So like it was total innocent. >> She rather than he. Well, because it's Adam and Eve, right? >> Just the story. >> Adam and Eve. Yeah. Of course, it's just the story. Yeah. It's [snorts] just a playful metaphorical story. But in the story it's >> she she didn't know. And then suddenly when she bitten, she knew. Yeah. She knew she was separate and so did he. >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> Said he ate the apple. >> But But it's Eve that ate from the tree, isn't it? Why? Why? [laughter] >> I think she eats first and then she says
32:10 to Adam, "Have some of this." >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> He knows, right? So, he doesn't know. >> Oh, yeah. He doesn't know any better. Yeah. >> He still eats it. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. The serpent. >> Um I think I can't I can't quite remember. I was never really into the biblical traditions bit. But but the serpent also seems to symbolically represent the condalini energy which is dormantly psychically stagnating around and around and around as a loop a cycle and it's kind of stuck in its own illusion of continuity. I mean that's how I'm at that moment depicting that goes round and round and the uh open
33:00 no more cycle no continuity no timeline just this yeah I think the serpent whispers in her ear or something like the one in Jungle Book. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Trust in me. >> Really? He's [snorts] going to eat you. >> Yes. Yeah. [snorts] >> He says, "If you have this, you'll be like gods. You'll know the difference between right and wrong." >> Yes. And then it's so so I mean there's just layers of symbology in that whole thing
33:48 because then suddenly they feel themselves to be separate from the garden and then they are there's Adam and Eve and the garden and they feel separate from the garden and then and in that is a is a sort of feeling of being banished or something and it's so totally it's so directly on the mark of what This reality seems to be like when it feels like there's an individual separate from the whole who then feels cut off from the whole and in that is we would call suffering. Yeah. The suffering of feeling separate individual and the longing to come back home >> and I guess in that I mean it's interesting that we have fumbled our way
34:34 into the Adam and Eve creation myth because I think it's the least helpful of all creation myths really. However, um I still I guess what I'm still grappling with is the idea of holding the separation and knowing it's an illusion, knowing that isn't the truth whilst enjoying being in a body with a beating heart and sunsets that show wonder and gorgeousness and >> I don't know, cycle and >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean those things absolutely still happen without a sense of there being someone to own it. >> Okay. >> Yeah. It's it's not that I'm dismissing the appearance. It's that there's a pointing out that the illusion of personhood is not real, but that everything else is totally naturally and
35:20 vibrantly what's appearing to happen. But there isn't actually a chooser, an individual doer located in a human body to to indulge or to abstain to to enjoy life or to enjoy life. [snorts] Um it's not that that is energetically the entire appearance elusorally appearing as a centered visceral embodied hearness. And there's nothing wrong with it. It's not wrong at all. It may tell itself in its story world that there's something wrong or that I'm wrong, I'm unlovable, I'm unworthy. It might tell itself those stories which would be the serpent sort
36:05 of dormant stagnant energy rolling around an organism. But the yes, it's there's no substance there and there's no one actually in that paradigm. And the openness of it. The apparent energetics of the release of this dormant energy is is undeniably liberation but not for anyone. It's not for anything. It's the liberation that there is no one. And in that is yeah, it's undeniable that there's no one incarnate and that there's no there's no one wrong or right. There's nothing to be done because there's no one to be doing. And this is already as it is. It's already unconditional love. Yeah.
36:50 And then enjoying sunsets, walking around, you know, to the beach or in nature, you know, it's like that's just the freedom. That's the freedom of it. Yeah. Or or, you know, writing or or making art or whatever the body whatever likes to happen. It just happens as it happens. Yeah. But it's no longer under the sway, the illusion that someone's there navigating that. Yeah. that someone's actually doing that. It feels like viscerally embedded in the in the cells like the whole it's like the whole psychophysical structure has interpreted that someone's there going through the motions of life and it's
37:36 it's confused really. The organism is innocently confused. Yeah. And when it relaxes, it's just quite naturally the body naturally carries on doing its thing. Yeah. >> Yeah. Thank you.
38:40 Lit. >> Hm. >> Late. >> Lit. >> Yesterday. >> Yeah. I'm wearing a dead cat. They call it a dead cat, you know. So there's no one to know that there's no one to know. There's [laughter] no one. No one to know that. There's no one to know.
39:26 There's no one. There's no >> Who would have known that? Yeah. [laughter] >> Who would have known that? And you ever feel embarrassment? >> Embarrassment? I don't know really. It It's not It doesn't seem to have showed up. >> Um, yeah. I mean, it's just not personal. And And I mean that in a the sincerest way that there's no nothing is owned. Nothing is claimed. You know, >> like the human body for example, as though there was such a thing. It's not owned. It doesn't belong to anyone. Yeah. So even if a a residual characteristic that would seem to imply personhood shows up, it doesn't belong to anyone.
40:12 Yeah. Yeah. But everything just seems so impersonal, but lovingly and intimately so. Like it's not bleakly impersonal. It's not cold impersonal. It's fully vibrantly because it's not located. It doesn't it doesn't land on anything. It's not ascribed to anyone or anything. And that's I would suggest that's what humility actually means is the the impersonal revelation that that there's no one to know, own, do, or relate to anything. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, that's [clears throat]
40:59 just too wide open for a perception that feels or has been taken for a person. Like, >> so you might have a conditioned response like laughter. >> Oh, yeah. >> Like if your trousers fell down, [laughter] >> should I do a demonstration? [snorts] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's um I mean, it's it's impersonal, but it's human. It's human. Like, there's still I mean, if anything, there's more there's more um I don't know vibrancy or intensity to this. I I would actually say that in the last in the last 2 years of my apparent life, which isn't mine by the way, um I have
41:47 laughed more, cried more, shouted more, sang more, danced more than in my entire life. >> So it's back to that free flow. >> Yeah. Total spontaneity. Everything is welcome. >> Everything is allowed. >> Yeah. Whereas before in an apparent dream certain things were allowed and other things not so much. Yeah. >> It kind of seem >> Thanks. >> Um more immediate maybe raw or just funny. >> It's very immediate and then probably just then gone. >> Yeah. >> Maybe forgotten. >> Yeah. Nothing's holding on to it. Yeah.
42:34 >> Yeah. [clears throat] Yeah. It just happens. It's happening. [snorts] >> Yeah. Yeah. So, nothing's objectifying laughter or or you know, sorrow or whatever. Yeah. It's just it it it dynamically appears and apparently then off it goes. >> Oh, it stopped. >> Oh, yeah. It's supposed to. Yeah. So what is that place that's laughing or dancing? >> It's placeless. Yeah, it's totally >> Yeah. It's totally placeless. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean the the particular perception sees cause and effect. You
43:20 see the the perception of separation sees things happening and that therefore things are causing and affecting other things to happen. Um, but again, that's the jigsaw, isn't it? That's the way of seeing, well, someone told this joke and then I started laughing or I had a bite from the apple and then I felt this, you know, texture and sensation. It's the and then and that's looking like a sequence like a a sequential and eventual reality. Um, but without the the way of perceiving separate things taking place, it all just is is immediacy. Yeah. Immediately laughing and crying and and joy and sadness and whatever else. Yeah. Without the storytelling to say this is where it
44:07 came from and this is where it's going. Yeah. >> And there's no center. >> No. Yeah. >> No location, no place for anything. >> Yeah. >> Limitless. >> Yeah. Totally centerless, which is wide open. Yeah. >> Wide open. Centerlessness. Yeah. >> So what is the point with the illusion then >> in a way? Yeah. >> And by [snorts] that I mean if you're just staying in the hole where there is no other and nothing more >> then what is the point of the illusionary puzzle pieces >> there? There isn't really one. But it but it is a reality of points like it
44:53 sees purpose and cause and effect because that's the realm of continuity. Because if it found a point, it would have a direction. You see, if there was a purpose to my life, then I have a direction. I have a a a direction to move in or towards, you know, a destination. It sees the reality as abstracted and fragmented. And so stories of meaning and purpose seem to to color and flavor that reality. Yeah. But without without a sense of an origin or a location, then not only does meaning and purpose not really compute, but it doesn't really need to. It it's that need for meaning and purpose that seems very
45:38 strong to a personalized energy or what would be interpreted as a personalized energy. If it tries to live like that, by the way, without a meaning or a purpose, then suddenly it seems to have adopted something called nihilism. Yeah. But that's quite quite far from what's being shared because non-duality as an absolute exposure is not really a view. Although it might sound like that. It may sound like an ideology or a belief system. And if it's adopted by a a perception, then it then it seems to translate as nihilism because it it just doesn't it's not compatible with that reality. It's
46:24 exposing the reality of relativity and separation as elusory and meaning and purpose has to go out the window with that because meaning is separation. This means that. If there is no this and that and for one to mean the other immediacy, it's meaningless and it's also needless as well. Yeah. But that particular perception seems to need a meaning because it seems to need a a then to relate to now. If there isn't a now and a then and for one to relate to the other, there's no orientation. And that's divine disorientation. Yeah. Which is complete liberation.
47:12 >> So where does the timeline which doesn't exist? Um >> you were talking about babies yesterday >> and you know babies cry. They signify need. >> Mhm. >> But if there's actually no need, >> so we don't respond to the baby's cry. Where how does where does it fit in in terms of a child in their place of expression >> and saying well actually you're not a thing and you're not really feeling that. How does that [clears throat] where's the line and a bit like for your >> Yeah. >> non-life. >> Yes. Yes. in terms of your process to be where you are now to where you weren't
47:58 maybe 5 years ago >> and just grappling with that. I >> I see I think I see what you're getting at and and I think what what you're perhaps trying to do which is quite natural and understandable is is trying to see how this exposure applies to a person's life. >> Yeah. And if it goes through that filter of application and navigation again on the other side is seen to be nihilism but it's not applying it's not stepping into a relative situation and saying this is how we live now. It's exposing that already life is lifing and so everything is that but it doesn't it's not like someone has this view of there's no one there's nothing nothing matters nothing means anything therefore
48:44 there's no therefore without cause and effect. So it's it's too absolute and already in total for any kind of application or navigation to come into the picture. Um there there's still the motions but they're just not abstracted. So baby is babying, crying is crying, feeding is feeding, you know, responding is responding. >> Okay? >> Caring is caring. It it's all, you know, it's all freely being what it is. Like, you know, the the bee and the flower aren't experiencing each other as separate things. There's just pollinating happening. But the bee isn't thinking of itself as I need to pollinate or I or the flower needs you know it's like there's not really a
49:30 transactional relationship happening there but the separate perception sees a separate flower a separate bee and an interaction but without the perception of that there's no there isn't actually separate things interacting so when baby's crying it's immediiacy and when feeding is happening feed you know it's immediacy. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's all exactly the same. That's what I mean. Like that's why the I think the metaphor of the of the jigsaw puzzle and the picture on the box is so is so fitting. [laughter] Ironically fitting uh because it's the same like it's exactly the same like the picture is exactly the same but one is fragmented
50:16 and the other isn't. It's like if if a separate perception [clears throat] leaves this appearance behind or the appearance leaves the separate perception behind rather, nothing is actually really different. Like everything is still the way it was, but there's just not this illusion >> fragmenting and abstracting it as something separate. >> Well, like I don't know if you're familiar with Caroline Nie. >> No. >> Okay. I I admire her. And you know she would say you know what is in one is in the whole and what is in the whole is in the one. And and I guess where I kind of know well I don't know quite what you will say actually but using the example of the flower and the bee.
51:03 what's in this place of non-being to enjoy watching the bee pollinate the flower and enjoying the smell of that flower or the colors. >> Um, and I know this meta experience of the sacred is beyond the five senses. That's a different >> experience. >> But I guess I'm just they they are one and the same. And yet you you say pollination is happening and yet that is a thing then. >> Yeah. It's the total. It's the total, >> right? >> But it's not really thinging. >> Yeah. It's not really being a thing. Yeah. So even to say pollinating is appearing to happen is a bit is a bit objectifiable almost, isn't it? Can't
51:50 really be labeled. >> Yeah. And then perhaps the the smelling of the flower and enjoying of the smelling of the flower is also immediately and totally what's appearing to happen. >> Do you smell flowers? >> Oh yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. For sure. >> Can an animal have a wow wow moment? So, like a sunset, >> like a rabbit looking at a sunset, could it [laughter] be like wow, not thinking, "Wow." versus looking at a wall. >> Um, it's it's a good question, actually, isn't it? But I mean, I don't think I've ever seen a dog looking at a sunset and
52:35 and thinking, "Wow, wow." [laughter] >> Yeah. It doesn't seem to show up that way. But, but yeah, there can seem to be enjoyment and play. I mean, dogs, as we know, are incredibly playful and fun. And >> But what about you? Do you look would would there be a difference between a sunset? You So, could you have a wow versus looking at a wall? >> Yes. Yes. But the but the difference the between or the, you know, rather than like that. That's a bit too abstractional for, you know, for the the explanation of that. But yeah, wow happens all the time, >> but it's just not belonging to anyone. It's not me wowing. It's not me being in awe. It's just awe. It's total awe. It's
53:22 it's so boundless that no, no one belongs to that. And that doesn't belong to anyone. >> Yeah. Yeah. You see what we're sort of tiptoeing around with the these conversations is that there's just no subject. There's no subject in this appearance. There really is not actually a subjective center that has or owns or knows anything. Anything. Yeah. It's it's just a it's a a hologrammatic
54:07 simulated mirage of nothing freely playing convincingly as a center and that's interpreted as a subject and a self and it's it's just an illusion. Yeah. There's nothing wrong with that. >> Do you think a contracted energy can get so contracted that that it caves in or collapses? Um, it seems to be the more it's like contracting, the more viscerally real it feels to be like >> I feel the more I feel contracted, the more I also feel expanded in another way, >> right? >> It's like it's it can't bear bear it anymore almost. it's caving in
54:53 >> and >> and then it kind of feels like it's crumbling and breaking down >> and it can feel crazy in a way but also exciting. >> Yes. When I'm driving, I get Tourette's strangely, and no one's ever seen it, but when I'm driving, >> and it feels like um >> everything is like a video game where I'm actually still I'm not driving, but every >> I mean, there's no right or wrong way for the that which feels to be contracted to actually show up. Um I mean people tell all sorts of different uh stories about it and it's and it's quite fascinating really in terms of the empty appearance showing up that way. Um >> yeah people some people feel tremendous
55:40 heat >> like phys physically heat. >> Uh other bodies feel like tingling or buzzing or pumping. >> Well an image came to my head. It's like a balloon that's getting more and more pressure and then it's like But that's expanding though, isn't it? That's not contracting. That's expanding. >> Yeah. Yeah. There seems to be like a pressure building up like a maybe a pressure cooker. >> Yeah. >> And then like the the lid like B and that's like the Tourette's, right? >> I don't know if it is Tourette's, but it's like a burst of energy. >> Oh, I mean that happens plenty as well. Yeah. There's several people who come to meetings and they're Yeah, quite dynamic vocalizations and
56:28 ticks and and jolts like physical. >> I felt yesterday I felt like I needed to dance or scream or shout or run >> uh when I left. >> I went to bed though. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Cuz I needed to work. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, there's definitely energies moving. >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's all like energetically expressing itself freely and abundantly wildly as it is. And it can seem quite disorienting or or or it can seem very pleasant. It can seem comforting. There's just no wrong or right response to it. As I said at the beginning, you know, every imaginable response is just really what it is. >> Yeah. It doesn't have to mean anything. It doesn't have to mean that. Oh, that
57:14 means that the contracted energy is falling apart or finally. Yay. [laughter] >> No, it's just it just is energetically the freedom. Yeah. Being that Yeah. >> Yeah. when I was um somewhat engaged in this as a thing that seemed to replace all other things. I I quite I remember there was times in which I felt like the ground was falling beneath my feet like the entire earth was falling out of orbit and like gravitationally the whole sense of being electrically and viscerally located in a body was completely falling apart and all sense of location in a visceral
58:01 sense not a conceptual one totally crumbling. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's quite it's literally disorienting, isn't it? Yeah. Cuz orientation is >> Yeah. Yeah. But then of course it could be so so subtle and and unnoticeable that there's like there's no real energetic seeming to be at play and yet it's undeniable. This this visceral charged center that's made of nothing really.
59:08 So, just let me know if at any point anyone wants a break. We can have one break or two breaks. I really don't mind. Did you hear that? >> Yeah.
1:00:12 If if people are all an illusion, can you still have genuine people versus non-genuine people? For example, like a m like take Johnny Cash versus I don't know who someone who's >> well I was thinking like fame like a singer who's like very commercial one seem seems very authentic >> but but then I would think then I'm thinking if they're both an illusion maybe that makes that a mute point >> but I'm not sure. Do you know what I mean? Um maybe they're equally false because they don't exist >> or do you Yeah. >> Yeah. I just think that truth and
1:00:58 falsity are both relative >> to a subjective experience. And so nothing is really true or false without a relative position to say so. So then even that statement is neither true or false. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Um I mean and there's no rules as well really that there there isn't like if a center drops then it's definitely going to be like this >> or if a center doesn't drop then it's definitely going to be like this. All that can be said is what appears to be happening and what appears to happen and yet really all there is is the total absolute void of vibrancy >> which doesn't really have rules and yet can appear to be ordered, ruled, structured. Um, but are we talking about
1:01:45 lying and cheating or stuff like that? >> Yeah. Or authenticity or or genuinely from the heart like you said, you know, just some where you can really connect with that person cuz they're so >> it it's quite hypothetical because it's sort of having a look at a situation that might happen. But, you know, it's it's quite gray area, isn't it? because it's all sort of different circumstances and what what the agenda would be. If there's an agenda, then then it seems transactional and then there might be something to get >> or someone with a hidden agenda or an open agenda. But agenda is separation. It's relative. It's intentional. Um without that, it doesn't seem like
1:02:31 certain game playing seems to show up. And yet there there's still defense mechanisms. And so it's like there's different facets and yet there's nothing like there's it's none of it is actually revolving around anyone. >> It's a bit sticky >> to get into hypotheticals like that >> cuz there aren't really rules. Yeah. To say definitively it's definitely like this or it's definitely like that just seems too solid really for an appearance that is absolutely empty. Do you think a really in touch artist will be coming from almost from what you're talking about here from >> Yeah, I think a spontaneous >> I think many artists are the the work is flowing through that body whether they
1:03:17 like it or not. Mhm. >> I really do think that that is a possibility like Shakespeare and and you know Mozart some of the greatest artists of our apparent species or what we would call like that that art is flowing through that body whether whether a separate self-perception likes it or not >> like cuz no one is doing anything there is no autonomy you know Kurt Cabain and and Jimmyi Hendris and whatnot like that art is just [snorts] flowing >> and it may seem to be under the illusion that someone is writing that, producing that material, but it isn't. It isn't. It's not really coming from a person. Yeah. >> And I see some musicians and artists who are like so impeccable,
1:04:04 like so like incredibly articulate in their own unique expression, and it's almost it seems almost obvious that there's no one there >> because there's no way that someone could actually do that. >> Mhm. like Bruce Lee or or Michael Jackson like who the hell >> said he couldn't ever do what he had done in the past now. >> Yeah. >> He said it just it's all automatic. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz they often get into what we call the flow state and there's just no sense of someone doing it or being there and that's when it perhaps becomes or seems to become addictive because there's this kind of pushpull energy. When I took masculine, um, I had all this poetry just coming out of my mouth
1:04:51 >> and I'm not poetic and it was just really good poetry and I did write it down and it actually was really good poetry and really profound >> and >> yeah, I can believe that. Yeah. >> So, yeah, >> where did that come from? I mean, it was >> exactly exactly where did it come from? It came from nowhere. M >> it's the it's the purity of this unfiltered uncontaminated and undistorted by a particular perception which is also the total just in disguise. >> Yeah. >> So what do you think of ego death and that that people get on psychedelics? >> I heard I don't know if it was you someone said it's just another experience. I think Jim Newman said it's just another experience.
1:05:36 >> Yeah. It's again it depends what what's going on. I mean I think with psychedelics it is for the almost always just an experience uh which you know there's no uh negative connotation in the word just by the way but it is an experience. Um but I I would suggest you know ego is I I'm I really am not keen on that word anymore cuz I don't think there's any such thing actually. I mean there's no such thing as an ego. There's no such thing as a mind. There's no such thing as a me. Um but yeah the what I could say is that the psychedelics depending on the the dose and the particular kind seem to artificially induce a loosening or even an absence
1:06:23 artificial sense of separation. >> Yeah. Taster >> kind Yeah. Yeah. an experiential taster as much as one could possibly replicate that >> because the whole sense of the struct the psychophysical structure does not feel embodied and it doesn't feel objectified or subjective. >> It doesn't feel like someone I mean we're talking like heroic doses or DMT where it's like just all sense of continuity spatial location sense of autonomy gone. >> You hear stories that sound like magic. For example, I heard someone said like, "So, he hated mosquitoes and the mosquito king came to him in his in [laughter] his clothes and then and and
1:07:10 then they said, "Please be nice to us or whatever." And we we pollinate the Amazon and um and he'd done a deal with them. He never got bit again, apparently. But >> I don't know if those stories are true, but >> you know, >> who knows? >> Who knows? Yeah. I mean, cities can appear to happen. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Yeah. You know, in a way, it's like, here's another metaphor for us. Um, it's like the entire sky is completely infinite and boundless. the total absolute
1:07:56 without an edge. It's so unfathomably vaster than vast. It's so total that it's unknowable and that's all there is. And in the totality, in the boundlessness can appear clouds, small ones, big ones, gray ones, black, rainbow colored. It can it can all appear. It's free. And uh a dream a dreamt perception is like the entire sky being overcast by one enormous cloud and it feels like the sky the absolute is missing. But that's just the absolute in disguise as a huge cloud veiling the total and yet there's nothing to be in that or under or behind it. And the psychedelic
1:08:41 would be like injecting that cloud with an artificial inducing of transparency and then suddenly the the sky is is revealed. The cloud is still there but it's just been artificially induced to make look transparent. That's what I would suggest the psychedelic is like. >> Interesting. And and but then of course after the psychedelic wears off in comes the the overcast again. >> Yeah. >> And in the apparent energetics of a sense of a center falling apart altogether. The cloud is not transparent. It's gone. It's totally disappeared. [clears throat] >> Yeah. >> The sky is normally used as a metaphor
1:09:28 for awareness. >> Yes. >> The way you're using the absolute absolute beyond >> the Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. The sky is not uh subjective, so it can't be aware >> or be and it's not objective, so it can't be something to be aware of. Yeah. Yeah.
1:10:13 >> [snorts] >> What's going Oh, yeah. [laughter] >> How does it go again? Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. That's that's good. Yeah. >> I'm a chameleon. >> Oneness. >> Oneness. Yeah. I am one with the painting. Does it work if I do this as well? Like with this black the grayscale arm there on the chair cuz that arm is black and gray scale
1:10:59 like that. >> [laughter] [panting] [snorts] >> Oh dear. M >> I was just I was just curious, you know, cuz you when you hear of the I know it's a comparative statement when we talk of masters, whether it's Jesus or Buddha or >> Yeah. Um but in the absence of the illusion
1:11:44 >> um and that sense of that place of healing has that where are you in that place just has that you know that sense of like there is no illness just actually that's it's not there that is an illusion how is that vibr vibrating for you or What's how what would you say to that? >> What in terms of healing? >> Yeah. And just that sense of you know because when we it's kind of like that frequency of where it's happening and that's okay. My thinking up to this point I can see the truth in that it's an illusion and yet
1:12:32 I guess I'm thinking that's by that is evolved thinking. And I know here there is no evolution. There's no arriving. You are here. Um but I so I'm just wondering if that has been a thing for you in the no thingness of it all. >> Does that question not really make sense? >> I'm just wondering exactly what we're talking about. Are we talking about healing like physical healing? >> Yeah, I guess so. like people who are under the illusion then of heart condition or I'm blind >> and like where you know cuz in the place of this place >> they that it's not true it can be healed.
1:13:17 >> Oh right what like miraculous healing. >> Yeah like miracles because this is the place we're in of there is no >> right >> other there is no block to anything. Just the isness. So where we are the great isness of is. >> Yeah. So cities can appear to happen. >> What's cities? >> Uh I really don't want to say the word superpower [laughter] but yogic abilities. Yeah. where bodies can can appear to uh open up to to abilities that that seem to defy physics as we understand it. Yeah. Like the yogis in the east, you know. Um >> and in that place and I know I've gone
1:14:03 up here immediately >> that is outside of that. >> It's just an >> physicality. Yes. That's >> it's just an appearance. Yeah. Exactly. >> Those things can appear or they or they might not appear. Um >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. And for you has that >> well the body this this body doesn't seem to be able to to levitate for example. Um I mean may but maybe one day who knows but but it doesn't seem to be needed or necessary. >> No. And I wouldn't be saying that because I think I'm not saying oh in that place we're all floating around. It's more >> deeply knowing in a body that doesn't know that
1:14:50 uh this realm I know I'm sort of using these projorative terms and find it hard to get away from it. >> That's okay. Um but how yes that what I would call the sacred the mystical transrational where things happen that are unexplainable but we know they happened. >> Yeah. Um, >> I mean, I I don't know if this is going to answer it, but but I don't really see a positive correlation between a dreamt reality, no dreamt reality, and ability to see or feel or even manifest more abilities. I I don't see actually a correlation cuz there are there do appear to be people feeling themselves
1:15:37 to be separate individuals and yet they still seem to have Yeah. the the ability to materialize things like physically materialize objects and and uh hear thoughts and you know read minds and stuff like that. I mean I I'm suggesting that that's an appearance not necessarily an illusion but it is as it is as miraculous as a setting sun or the or the ocean or trees growing in the wild you know. Yeah. But I don't think that, you know, if a dreamt reality falls apart then that that offers more, you know, more abilities or anything like that or more insight into the nature of reality because the nature of reality is all there is. Yeah. >> Okay.
1:16:25 >> The non head. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just so free that everything is allowed to be what it is. And that includes you know worship and devotion, prayer, meditating, um playing with Yeah. [laughter] what whatever appears to be happening. Yeah. Yeah. But there seems to be for that particular perception a seeking for those things or a seeking for something greater. Um and what what what's being suggested is that the the divine is actually absolute. So that there isn't more or less that and it's not somewhere else. It's all it's all there is. Yeah.
1:17:12 >> Yeah. >> Should I bring this back? >> Well, you can hold on to it if you want. Unless I was going to ask >> Oh, yeah. >> I can't think about it any time that I get Uh-huh. So going back to cities >> superpowers. >> So there's people that live in a very rational world, >> you know, just like everything's science, explainable by science. So they just don't that's just not their reality. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And then there's people that are open to it. >> Yeah. >> You could say I know we're talking about
1:17:59 people and Yeah. But it almost seems like the people that are open to it might see it more often or there's like a correlation between their openness or their >> allowability >> that it comes. And the people that don't see it are just saying, "Well, that's nonsense. That's not real." >> But what you're saying is like neither is right or wrong. >> Yeah. Yeah. Ultimately, >> yeah, ultimately >> because truth and falsity are relative. >> What I experience to be true is is my subjective experience. What another person experiences to be true is their
1:18:46 subjective experience. And what's proposed is that that's an illusion. >> There's no my and your experience. There's no and and experiences. Elus are really a subject of reality. and truth and falsity die with that really. >> So then it's chaos. It's it's chaos because what you know who can really say >> what could happen or what couldn't happen when all there is is nothing being everything. >> Yeah. >> But it's so much conflict, isn't it? It's kind of caused by well, I see it this way. >> Yeah. >> You see it that way and you've got to see it my way. >> Uh-huh. >> Yeah. And then that apparently creates a war or something, you know, or a battle or a conflict.
1:19:31 >> Just the irony of that, you know, >> that there are there could be these two opposing things and one could be right and one wrong. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. And the great humiliation that no one is right or wrong. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Total divine despair. or that Bob Dylan lyric, you know, God's on our side. We've got God on our side. It's not on your side. It's on our side. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> We're true and you're not. And it's >> Yeah. >> But it's just war happening, isn't it? >> The total >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The total waring.
1:20:17 >> Yeah. So where does like the evolution which I know we're on a journey that people are still struck by what we're talking about with bringing up war because in that place where everyone is my spiritual brother and sister. We are part of the same jigsaw. We don't need to do this. That's that's that is a that is not where we're at as a race at the moment. And so if there is which I perceive a a a journey of awakening to get to even an understanding that we are all spiritual brothers and sisters so to speak um so that we don't have a need to murder and
1:21:03 kill and create war. That doesn't fit into any of this. >> No, it doesn't. [laughter] Yeah, it doesn't. Um because it's relative. Yeah. So there may be that there may be you know um charitable things happening, caring happening, you know action appearing to happen. Um but absolutely unconditional love doesn't see more or less higher or lower, better or worse because it's not polarized. It's not [snorts] conditional. It it's not there's no more or less. So that's that's undicernable. It's completely incomprehensible that everything is that. So that again does not step into a
1:21:50 relative situation and say anything. So then whatever appears to be happening is that and that may be the appearance of care and you know love and harmony or it could be the the appearance of violence and and destruction. Yeah. It's too wide open for for again application and this is this this is what we do or this is the implication. Yeah. It's it's too wide open. They don't correlate the absolute exposure does not correlate to the relative. Yeah. >> Yeah. And I know in the absolute there is no right and wrong. And yet in the experience
1:22:38 [clears throat] I guess I'm just curious about I know there is no self to aspire to being better but I'm just yeah what what's that you know if there were bombs raining down I mean we are in a privileged place here to sit quietly I know it's relative >> persecuted it's relative yeah these are relative >> examples coming up. So yeah, there's no there's no relating the relative to the absolute because relating is the relative. So it doesn't it doesn't correlate. There's no fixing them together because they are this they are what is. >> So caring and loving and tenderness still appears.
1:23:24 Yeah. It's not nothing is nothing is denied or dismissed even though it might be heard that way. No, it's all this. It's all this, the care is this, the the anger is this, the pain is this, the whatever, it's all this. Yeah. So if if you know if if chaos like chaotic, you know, conflict is happening, there tends to be a response to that in the relative in the in the relative and a practical situation. you know, if if someone is if there's a child hurting, then then there's a a caring response to that from a apparently a you know, a responsible adult or something like that's a relative. But in the absolute, it's all it's all this.
1:24:12 Yeah. >> Yeah. It's like just impossible to marry the two up together. You see? Yeah. Like you can't apply an absolute exposure to a relative situation. That would be like trying to fit um it would be like trying to fit a cube through a circular shaped hole. You know, >> it doesn't quite compute. >> Can't apply it because they're not separate. >> Yeah. Is that Is that >> It's like It's like It's like trying to put the picture on
1:24:58 the box of the jigsaw puzzle together. It's already together. It's already one piece. Like imagine if you opened a jigsaw puzzle box and found one piece and you're sitting there stroking your chin thinking, "How how does this work then? How do I put that together? It's already together." Yeah. It's already together. Yeah. Yeah. That doesn't mean it's already peaceful or that it's already tranquil. No, it's it's unconditional. That word does not compute to a conditioned mind. It can't fathom the unconditional because it is conditioned. It lives in and has a
1:25:44 reality of conditionality, unconditioned things. Yeah. Maybe I could um just tell a story and then we can have a break um about the divine mother. Um so the the divine mother, some of you may have heard this before, appears, it's totally poetic, by the way, totally metaphorical. I have to disclaim that. Um it's not not to be taken literally obviously at all but the divine mother appears in two forms at least
1:26:30 um just for the just for the time being. And uh one of those forms is green Tara. She is the peaceful. She is the one that steps her right foot down into the relative reality compassionately. It's a symbol of compassion and action. When she steps down, she steps into the relative world and suddenly she is seen to be peaceful, tranquil, kind, harmonious and loving. Something that is nurturing and caressing to me or not me to people who are suffering, to people who are indulging. She sees everything equinimously, but she responds in the relative world view of there being
1:27:17 warfare and poverty and destruction, crimes. She steps into that world. And that's when we see the pictures of Green Tara as something something really serene and and like really it makes us feel nice and comfortable in our relative situation. And that's the peaceful emanation and depiction of the divine mother. The other depiction does not step into a relative situation rather she exposes it for its illusory nature and that is Carly and she is not peaceful looking at all. She is actually depicted as something quite fierce and perhaps even
1:28:04 scary to the individual eyes, which is why she looks the way she looks. Eyes wide open, tongue out, necklace of skulls, you know, blood. And it's it's something it's it's seen to be something quite disturbing by the individual reality. It's exposing relativity for its illusory nature and all of its pretenses. Now, if that is viewed by the illusory perception of separation, again, it's confronting. It's provocative. It's deemed something unpleasant and maybe even evil. But actually that's the divine feminine or the divine masc sorry the divine mother in its wrathful
1:28:51 absolute unconditional and uh uncompromising form because it's not meeting the dream where it wants to be and where it wants to go. So it it's annihilation. It's an annihilator. And yet it is the maternal embrace that's deeply most yearned for by the child who cries out for her everywhere she goes. So they are two appearances of the same beyond gargantuan hole. One is is is stepping into the relative and the other does not uh compromise and she exposes this illusion for its for its pretenses for its misconceptions
1:29:37 leaving no trace of individuality behind and that is also compassion. So there's the the relative compassion and the absolute compassion and this exposure is the absolute compassion. It's the total impersonal revelation that this is this is unconditional love. This is the total this is the freedom that I always yearned for. But I was just too busy looking for it in a thing or in a state a conditioned something or other. The absolute exposure says no. This is home. This is home. It's already home.
1:30:23 So this is the undicernable. This is unconditional neutrality. This is unrelatable because it's absolute. It's neither this nor that. It just is this and that is this too. That as an
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