0:10 which is delightful. And uh yeah, I'm actually very um I feel very touched that you've came to hang out with me um or that we've come to hang out together, shall I say. Um so I think that we're we're in for some fun. Uh we're here to discuss the ineffable really and to bask. That's the suggestion. Basking without direction or intention. Um and I'll say a bit more about that in a second. But just a few practical things. Obviously this is recorded from two screens as it happens. Um because it's entertaining for some for some reason. And um so that obviously that camera is on me and this camera is on me but no one else is in the shot. Um,
0:57 oh, when it comes to speaking, obviously there's a little uh digital microphone there. It doesn't amplify anyone's voice, meaning it doesn't make your voice louder. It's just for the uh playback. Yeah. So, if we want to just pass that around when we want to say, share, or ask anything, that uh makes it all the more enjoyable for a watch back. Um, obviously, this is 6:00 p.m. till 8:00 p.m. tonight. Uh, so we're probably not going to have a break uh tonight, but we will be having breaks in that tomorrow. Uh, obviously there's bathroom right there. Um, I think that's it in terms of practical information. I can't think of anything else. Uh, and now for the useless information, which is what this is all about, it would seem. Yeah. Total total stark
1:46 utterance of this really total stark simplicity. That's what this is about. It's just the total natural reality that is this without that. And whatever that could seem to be, whatever that could seem to appear as is not anything other than what's appearing to happen. It's just this essentially. It couldn't really be any more simple when it's suggested that there just is simply, ordinarily, and naturally what's appearing to happen. Yeah. Now, that that's basically the the simplicity of
2:32 of the the so-called message. which obviously we go into random concepts and things about you know duality, separation, distance and that we can have a play and a dialogue about all of that stuff. But maybe it can just be said for a second that none of that is going to help anything to get more or less this right. So, it's kind of a disclaimer to point that out because it would seem like so easily so easily it it happens that there's an expectation of some kind there's an anticipation of some kind that this is really going to get somewhere and the subtlety of that
3:18 energy can can really get more and more refined. Apparently, this energy of really thinking, feeling, and believing that something is genuinely going to happen or that something is genuinely going to change or h or or be different to get better even maybe. This isn't on that level. This isn't on the level of A and B because that's duality. This isn't on a level of I say something and then you get something or I transmit something and then you receive something or I've got something that you haven't yet. All of that is nonsense. Thank goodness. It's it's absolute nonsense.
4:04 Yeah. And also the the other way round that I've lost something that that someone else here might also lose. any of that kind of stuff is just nonsensical storytelling. As far as I'm concerned, it's these these kind of subtle stories about about what about that or or could this actually change or or is there a me or isn't there a me or maybe there is a sensation of separation and that might disappear one day. I mean all of it is just exhausting. It's completely exhausting, nonsensical storytelling dream stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Without that storytelling energy. What else is there
4:50 really? What else is there other than what's appearing to happen? And I'm not suggesting that storytelling is wrong. Absolutely not. There there's no sense that anything is wrong actually. But um without that kind of storytelling energy of feeling, thinking, believing and sensing in what's next or over there or me and my life as a an individual without that storytelling, it's it's there's nothing that needs to happen. There's nothing that needs to actually be different or change. And again, I know that in saying that there might be interpreted that storytelling needs to stop, but that's a story, too. That if
5:37 storytelling stopped, then this would be more, less, better, worse. No, there's there's no better or worse without storytelling. So, all of that dualistic stuff lives within this uh dualistic framework basically. And um yeah, so the there's there's really nothing to achieve. And that that might sound quite unfortunate or or upsetting or frustrating or even disappointing, but um actually it's complete liberating, complete liberation that this is already everything. This is not confined to time. This is not confined to space. This is not confined to consciousness or any dimension
6:25 because none of that stuff actually is real. There there's the only only the the appearance which can seem to be perceived and felt in certain ways we could say but the there's no source or substance to any of this that there is no real essence here that there's no actual solid things that are really taking place there there's just there just is this really there just is this without wanting to complicate data anymore. There just is this. And sometimes this mouth kind of uh riffs off on all this conceptual jargon, but it does like to kind of bring it back to the utter simplicity, the abundant simplicity that there just is this
7:14 wow. Yeah. So yeah, there there are certain perceptions which seem to say no there isn't just this actually or hold on a minute what about that or you forgot about this and that's this too obviously any kind of energy of of grabbing or or trying to find something else trying to assert or claim that there's something else is absolutely equinimous ly and immediately this. Totally this. Yeah. And in that sense, this is inescapable. You can't escape this. There's never been a getting away from this. This
8:01 isn't now. This isn't here. This isn't spatial or timely whatsoever. This is just this completely dynamically what is. And that's never been moved towards or away from. that's never been invaded or evaded, that's never been advanced towards or retreated from, that's never been navigated at all. This sense of hearness is just a completely unreal phenomena. Yeah, completely unreal phenomena. this illusory psychossematic energetic phenomena of it feeling a density of hearness the sort
8:47 of kind of constriction or something like that it can seem like that it doesn't always but it can very seem very much seem like there's a here an assertion this is where I am this is my orientation I inhabit this body this is my body. It's owned by me. It belongs to me. The me that never actually shows up in the appearance. Even the claim that there's something that belongs to me doesn't belong to anyone. Even the assertion or the claim has no owner. Yeah. And uh there's no Yeah. I mean the hearness uh can't be described or explained enough
9:33 how unreal that actually is. It's a complete psychossematic misconception it would seem. Yeah. Me and Tobias often call it an energetic contextualization. It's like this sense of something living in the tissues which is then seeming to perceive reality out through the eyes, the the nose, the the uh the ears, the mouth and the pores of the skin. like I live on this side and you live on that side here. That boundary is not there. It's not there already. It's not there. There's no reality to that. It's not like that's really going to disappear because it's not really appearing to actually
10:20 disappear. Yeah. So in a way talking about it is ridiculous because it's almost validating that there there is to some extent or on some level an energetic constricted contextualizing energy. Yeah. Misconception also includes continuity that there's that there's a real now and that there's a real then and that then led to now. Right? that the sense that there's a past that led to the present moment and that that's over there and this is now. Yeah. This kind of energy of imagining that there's a now and a then and that they are apart from each other
11:07 is there's no I mean that that never actually appears. It never appears. There's only what immediately appears to be happening. and memories is totally what's immediately appearing to happen. Thoughts, ideas, it's all what's just completely totally timelessly immediately appearing to happen. No source and no substance. You will never find anything other than what's appearing to happen. Yeah. So again, inescapable inescapable thisness and this misconception of continuity seems to breed with it a lot of storytelling.
11:53 Yeah. This kind of psychosmatic illusory phenomena seems to breed this sense that the stories that tell themselves are actually real and they put an individual in that framework. that cog spins around and it's and it seemed to have gathered an illusory momentum and it seems like there's an individual at the center of all of that and there's no reality to that. There's no one at the center of this story called me in my life and it's not happening in time either. So, I hope that that doesn't sound like bad news because it's actually totally totally liberating that there's no there's no continuity. Yeah. And there's
12:39 no spatial location. And that part really seems to be utterly incomprehensible. Yeah. Because no location means there's no thing to have location. So there's no such thing as a body. There's no such thing as a room. There's no such thing as Prague. There's no such thing as these things appearing to happen. It's all totally inseparably empty. Yeah. Yeah. No one can see that obviously. It's unseeable. Yeah. Unseeable. It's not something to be seen. Yeah. It can't be objectified.
13:26 and autonomy. Now, this this misconception is particularly striking. The the illusion that there is actually a self located in the brain or the central nervous system that's you know or maybe in the heart chakra or something like that that there's a self that is actually inhabiting the body that is actually choosing to move the body. Yeah. And this is a completely unreal phenomena. There's no reality to that absolutely whatsoever. It's just some kind of tenseness like there's a felt felt sense to that but it's it's not made of anything. It has no source or substance. It just kind of
14:12 feels like there's someone rubbing their fingers, but actually there's no there's no reality to that whatsoever. Yeah. And and no neither do the words speak from a person or the the thoughts think from a person or feelings are felt from a person. Everything is just chaotically and and in a way fruitfully appearing for no reason at all. Yeah. Yeah. Now perhaps for some bodies the intention to come here is to do something about all of that and the if the if if autonomy is one of
14:58 the misconceptions then what could possibly be done about any of that? Furthermore, what needs to be done about any of that? There's nothing that needs to happen really. This energy of needing something to happen is chasing its own tail like a dog running around and around going nowhere. It's futile and it's exhausting itself and it's completely unnecessary. What we're exposing here together and exploring here together conceptually and perhaps energetically is the possibility that this is already home. Unconditionally speaking, this is already home. This is already unconditional love. This is already timeless. So, how are we going to get to that as a
15:44 destination? How are we going to get to the absolute if the absolute is is not set in time or space? It's this. It's this already. And the energy in its own conditioning lives in a reality of going places, getting things, you know, going to these people and and relating to that. Feels like it's on the move. It's getting progress towards something else. So that energy is not fed here really. It's not fed. It's not fed in that sort of conditioned way, perhaps even a societal way. It's not it's not given an instruction. It's not given a direction.
16:30 Not even validated really as something that's even actually happening. And so in that is the absence of a paddle, the absence of being given anything to do and anywhere to go. And and that's total freedom. Yeah. It's undeniably freeing because what more could there be? What more could there be than the absolute? What more could there be than this? Whatever sensation or perception or feeling is appearing to happen, it's not a it's not a it's not an error. It's not a mistake. It's not a problem. It's not a it's not a lesson or something to learn from. It's not there just is what
17:15 appears to be happening. And apparently that in its own dream terms the separate sense can there can and now I'm going into that dream terminology again for which I apologize but in that can seem to be oh yeah it's yeah this is it. This is it. I mean no one's left to be saying this is it. It speaks itself. It just is it. This is just it. It's just done. It's it's laughable in a way. It's kind of hysterically funny that that these uh these energies find themselves looking around for for this, you know, that there's some kind of disease. And it's
18:01 just kind of got a bit confused in its own innocence, looking for something greater. And in that search is a disease. But the search is the disease. And the disease is the search. And it's therefore it's searching to remedy the disease. But that is the disease. So it tries to find a way out of that old striving energy and it's completely useless and futile because this is it. This is it. And if seeking is appearing to happen then seeking is appearing to happen. That's what that's this as well. So then it just doesn't matter you know in the most wonderful way really. It doesn't matter whether seeking is happening. It doesn't matter if waiting for the what's next is happening because
18:46 that's just this appearing as waiting. So every imaginable avenue that could possibly be taken is stripped away. Which is why one of the reasons why I I often call it humiliation because every imaginable route to go somewhere or to achieve something is divinely stripped away from this appearance and then it's like oh wow well it's done. It's it's totally totally done. And it never not it it never wasn't done. Yeah. There was just some kind of perception that was so busy looking for it and invested in the imaginary what's next
19:33 which never arrived. Yeah. So compassion is calling home to to every imaginable illusory energy that's that's so out there busy looking for it in a thing a place a person a substance a state of mind. Compassion is calling out this this this just this
20:24 Just this come here you Great to see you again. >> Hi. >> First time we meet in person, huh? >> Yeah, first time. >> Yeah, it was a long strange journey to >> Yeah, I bet. >> Yeah. Thanks for coming though. >> Difficulty, isn't it? >> Yeah. >> I was looking for 118 8 for eight. 1188. >> Yeah,
21:09 >> there's no place like home. >> Yeah, >> there's no place like home. Dorothy once said it >> was really dark down there as well. I was like, what is this? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'll take a picture next time or something. Yeah. >> Yeah. And a telephone would help. >> Ah, >> number. >> Good to know. We'll bear that in mind for next time. >> A bit where am I going to felt like a proper >> call secret. >> Secret society. A secret society. >> Sh. You know like the Jews when they were hiding from Nazis in
21:58 >> Yeah. >> Wow. at the risk of that. >> We're the real outlaws here, huh? >> Yeah. There's no place like home. Wizard of Oz is an amazing film for more reasons than one, obviously. Um, but I mean it's such an it's such a beautiful story about the seeker really. She's she's fell into a dream world where everything seems so miraculous, but she feels some kind of disease and longing to come back home again. So, she treads down this magical, wondrous
22:44 yellow brick road to find the Wizard of Oz at the end of it, only to discover, spoiler alert, I mean, I don't know how many millennials are watching, but um but uh so if you haven't seen the film, you might want to mute this part. Um but only to discover at the end of that long, you know, arduous journey of the the uh welltrodden path, she finds this well what appears to be some some guy pretending to be a guru, but really he's just some some guy that sort of, you know, looks a bit sorry for himself and doesn't really know what the hell he's doing or talking about. Um, now I'm not suggesting that I'm the Wizard of Oz because the guru pretend I'm not bad
23:30 mouthing any gurus or teachers either, but in that energy is anticipating that this guy at the end of my quest has got the answer and I'm going to make an effort with my free will and choice. I'm going to I'm going to get to the end of that path and I'm going to find the answers. Well, what's revealed is that that that guy doesn't know any more than she does. And what was revealed was that home was all already all ready. It was already she she just kind of was so busy looking for it in some kind of special thing or special person and that just kind of overlooked the immediacy. Now obviously I'm translating the film in a you know to to non-duality but but it really does sort of capture something
24:16 you know that energy invested in the what's next and that someone's going to have the cure for this illness that's not even there. There's no antidote to to the separation cuz it's not real. And what's next is separation. Well then there's nothing to wait for. Yeah. I mean, it's throbbing. Gosh. Throbbing.
25:10 When you say it's just happening, >> uh, when you say it's just happening, but it's not really happening. >> Yeah, that can seem confusing as hell, can't it? M >> yeah it suggested that all there is is what's appearing to happen. Yeah. And that's a pretty vague response and it's kind of deliberately vague because there's no there isn't really anything other than what appears to be happening. So even the word there's just what's appearing to happen is just what's appearing to happen. But no point steps outside of what's
25:58 appearing to happen to say what's appearing to happen. It's so immediate. It's so immediate that there's no ability to describe this as real or unreal. Yeah. Because this isn't known by anything because there is only this and therefore these words don't know that. That's this too. It's like inescapably immediate. Yeah. But without something to step outside or step apart from what's appearing there, there's no sense that this is real or that it's unreal. There's no sense of it. It's so total and in that
26:46 uh Yeah. I mean, it's absolutely indescribable. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, no word could ever really describe that. These words certainly don't. Yeah. They don't even try. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Because my mind when I was trying to find this address and getting here, I I met a young lady and she says, "I'm not from here. I'm from Ukraine." And then I spoke to her in Ukrainian because my parents are Ukrainian and I was born in England, but I know Ukrainian. M >> so oh okay well is this you know it's not a coincidence or what you know it was kind of funny and then as as I was walking down the street and I was thinking where is this road I couldn't
27:32 >> and then and then a guy who was delivering pizza you know he would know and then I asked him he says well that doesn't mean it's 1188 it means something and oh thank you and then I'm at the door and I'm thinking where do I press you know I can't see anything and then a man comes by and he says, "What are you looking for?" And I said, "Well, >> you are you you're Dorothy, aren't you?" >> It seems like it. >> You met the the lion and the the scarecrow. >> Which one was the pizza guy? >> He was shaken a little bit. He wasn't well. He lives somewhere in the apartment. Well, he was meeting some man here. >> That really sounds like the Wizard of Oz. Like, welcome. >> Welcome to Emerald City. still didn't
28:18 see your door number. So I I I pressed the other door. >> I said he said, "Who are you looking for?" >> And I said, "Someone here." >> What a pilgrimage. >> Yeah, it was. >> What a pilgrimage. You're dedicated. All right. Yeah, you're dedicated. I'll give you that. >> It was a reason to come. >> Yeah. >> No reason. >> Yeah. Yeah. But it's just interesting and I had to laugh, you know, cuz I thought, how does this, you know, what's going on >> because it's not like you're doing anything about it? >> Yeah. It's just >> Yeah. >> So, it's a story.
29:04 >> It's a great story. Great story. Yeah. Wow. Has anyone else had any interesting pilgrimage adventure? Well, you did. Yeah. >> Yeah. Prague airport. Oh my god. >> Oh, was it bad? >> It was chalk. Like literally, it was like a 2hour way. >> Oh god. >> Scanning in and stuff like that. >> Yeah. So that doesn't sound as glamorous as the yellow brick road. Yeah. >> I feel for you. It's horrible when that happens. >> Well, a couple people bought me a few vodka. >> Oh, not all that bad. Not all that bad. Anyone else? Any
29:51 >> Yeah. Who can top Who's who's got the best the best pilgrimage story? >> Wow. I know. Yeah. >> When did you get >> um When did I get it? It was two or three hours ago. >> Three maybe. I can't remember. >> Where did you fly from? >> Uh Heathrow. >> He >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I went to Frankfurt and then to everyone else from Prague. >> Prague.
30:36 I'm not from Czech Republic. >> Czech Republic. >> Germany. >> Germany. I remember Hungary. >> Yeah. >> I remember >> Switzerland. Hungary. Well, Norway as well. >> Norway. >> Switzerland. >> Deutseland. >> Austria. >> Austria. Wow. >> Bit of everything. >> Yeah. >> Europe. UK. >> Yeah. UK. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> London. in it. >> Yeah. >> Very good. Very good. >> Nearly.
31:22 >> Surprised Brendan didn't turn off. >> No, he doesn't he doesn't really go abroad for this. Yeah. He has he brings everyone to him. >> Yeah. I had just 10 minutes to get to the train station from where I live to get on the train to Prague. >> More pilgrimage. Yes. Like, wow. >> It was 10 10 minutes, 7 minutes to drive >> and then I got on the train >> all the way to Prague. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> What's that? I don't know what is that here.
32:14 >> Well, you can relax now, huh? >> Yeah, it's good. >> Yeah. Nothing required, nothing demanded. Just this bathing in the unknowable. The annoying thing is trying to explain to people why what you're doing in Prague. >> Oh yeah, >> that's annoying. >> Yeah, I can imagine how fun that can be. >> We're going to sit and talk about nothing. Oh, like a satsang meditation. No, >> opposite. >> Like a zen zen medit. No tantra must tantra, right? No, no
33:04 philosophy. It's a real head scratcher, isn't it? You know, like how can we even describe this? Yeah, it's impossible. My girlfriend gets annoyed at me. She's like, "So, you're paying to sit in a room and talk about nothing?" >> Yeah. >> What's the point? >> Yeah. What's that about? >> I don't know. >> I don't know why. >> I don't know why I do that. >> Yeah. >> I just do it. I don't know. >> It's extraord It's extraordinary, though. I mean, I I I forgot your last name. So, I was actually really delighted when I saw your face through the door. Yeah, >> I mean, you know, to come from the UK, that's really touching >> cuz I have meetings in the UK, but you
33:50 came here and so that's really that's really something. But and I'm not just saying that out of sentimentality, like I would propose and by now you've heard all of this conceptual jargon, plenty, you're quite familiar with the terms there's only nothing apparently happening, etc. But yeah, it's like there's a pull, right? There's a pull to the indescribable. >> Yeah. >> I don't know. Maybe >> it seems like it. I mean, I'm just suggesting, but um you know, to get on a plane and sit with others, you know, exploring this, it's it's got nothing to do with understanding anything. >> Yeah. And I'm not trying to make it sound mystical or something, but um >> yeah, it's the this is I would suggest it's just total confirmation if there
34:35 ever was one that this is home. Not this in a meeting, >> but they're pointing out that this is home. And it's not that that's limited or confined to a a gathering of, you know, but yes, it's I call it basking. I like the word basking. >> Yeah. >> What does it mean? >> Uh it's sort of like bathing, like sunbathing. >> Yeah. Yeah. when you're sort of like lying. And I know I'm making it sound a bit like glorified or something or nice, but um >> it does tend to have I guess positive connotations usually, >> but uh yeah, you imagine sort of soaking in the sunlight and you're just kind of bathing in that. It's it's a bit like
35:20 that. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. And getting all the vitamin D. But but I know that that makes it sound like you know process or that something's happening that no it's it's actually the the sort of fading of that process stuff and the fading of happenings and that's what I mean by basking the kind of sense that this whole energy of going somewhere or achieving something or staying somewhere as well all of that's kind of dissolving and It's this is a there's a homeliness in that I would suggest. It's not always comfortable, but home isn't always comfortable, is it? You know, but it is home nevertheless,
36:07 undeniably. Yeah. >> The fun bit is not knowing why you're doing it. That's the fun bit. >> That's what I found fun. >> Yeah. >> That's like cool. >> Yeah. Like a lassu is just pulling. >> Yeah. >> Just chilling. >> Mhm. My closest sister has fallen out with me.
36:53 So I have we my sister uh we did a lot together um ek taller the whole thing and um and now she the last conversation we had she lives in America Seattle. >> Mhm. >> And she went crazy. She really went crazy. And I knew it's just this it's nothing to do with her. It's this energy that she's feeling and she says, "What do you what what kind of workshop is it?" And I said, "It's not a workshop. It's nothing to learn. Then why do you go?" >> You know, and she was going mad. She was literally going crazy. And I was thinking, >> wow, look at this. It was amazing. She was really, really angry. And then she wrote to me, "I don't like your energy.
37:40 You've got horrible energy." And she she's cut me off. >> It's like, >> wow. after 60 years it's like whoa, you know, like hits you in the head. >> Gosh, it's >> amazing because we've always done lots together. Really shared our life. >> Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. >> Yeah. And it's just like But I'm just thinking it's it's the energy. She's just >> it's it's somehow unintentionally confronting, isn't it? >> To the this this proposal uh of there's no next, there's no now, there's no here, there's no there. There's no one. It just is this. Yeah. >> Yeah. And and and I love her, you know. I I really love her and I >> and and it's like but I can't do anything. Yeah. There's just nothing I
38:26 can and there's no way to to I mean she just cut me off and there's no way I can try and talk to her anyway about it because >> there isn't. And um >> she's still involved with >> No. No. But she's with Course in Miracles. >> Yeah. which actually says a lot of you know it's not non-duality as such because it's a course it's a process but uh >> still there's a lot of lot of jewels in there apparently of you know there's no doer there's no right >> this is all >> impersonal etc >> and we read Krishna my together and you know we did a lot together >> and now suddenly just >> why do you want to go there all that way
39:13 And then when I mentioned home, she went even worse. >> And it just felt she's not satisfied. She's dis, you know, she's not with her life. And there's something that's niggling her that she can't anyway, but she's not open to. >> Yeah. >> She heard Tony Parson's one time. She said he was very arrogant. >> So that's how she took it. M >> yeah, >> I'm smiling because I remember watching my girlfriend uh one of Tony's videos and she looked at it. Yeah, she she managed it quite well. She 30 minutes or so. This is horrible. This is How can
40:00 you watch this? This is terrible. That was it. But Tony Yeah. So quite similar. >> 30 minutes. 30 minutes is pretty good. going if that's not what you're into. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. The Yes. I mean, the nature of what's being exposed is uh it would seem to be unintentionally confronting and provocative. Yeah. Big time. Um and yet there's no meaning for that. There's no it's not meant to provoke or or confront anything. It's just pointing out what is already. But um
40:46 there's no agenda for anyone to get that. Yeah. There's no I mean what would what would there be to want to change someone or something even a relative or a loved one? Yeah. But yeah, the the the heartbreak of Yeah. Family dynamics can be very very painful. I feel for you.
41:33 How's Tobias doing? >> Oh, thanks for asking. Yeah, he's all right. He's all right. >> Good. >> He had a little bit of a like a like his back got a little bit uh bad, but it's it's much better now. Yeah. Yeah. I'll tell him you asked. >> Is he still puffing the wy? What do you think? >> Yeah. >> English. >> Yeah. >> Popping the belly. I have no idea. >> Well, I've not heard that one before myself, but I knew what it meant.
42:20 >> Yeah. >> So, marijuana. Is he still smoking marijuana? >> Isn't that for his health? >> It is for his health. Yeah, it's it is legalized. Yeah. >> I said puff in the wall. >> Puff in the valley. >> Wally wory. >> Wally. >> Worly. >> That's nice. So >> Wally. >> Yeah. >> Wally. >> Wally. Wally. >> W. >> And who said we weren't going to learn anything? I don't know how to spell it. I don't know. It's just I've heard it before. >> Okay. Yeah. >> At least Alexa speaks proper English.
43:07 That's >> Korean's English. K. Yeah. >> Oh, it's not quite the Queen's English. >> I heard one bloke though, he he speaks English. He doesn't know any German, but he goes Oh, sorry. >> That's all right. >> One bloke who goes to like non-duality meetings. >> Yeah. >> He'll he don't understand German, but he'll still go to the talks in German. >> Sure. >> Just to sit there >> to hang out with Andreas. and that's it. >> Which I find crazy. >> Where a lot of people as well might come to you if they don't speak English.
43:54 >> Yeah. What your thoughts on that? >> Uh well, I mean I don't know who that is specifically, but um yeah, it seems like his name is William. >> Oh, okay. Okay. >> Okay. Um right. Well, I mean I don't want to apply any specialness to to meeting because it's not if anything it's the complete exposure that there is no specialness. >> Uh but in that is like there there's a there seems to be a palpable energy like a like almost like a frequency of of this sort of openness without journey and destination. It can seem to be you know vibrational. Um it can seem
44:42 very resonant. It can seem like almost throbbing sometimes. I mean, different bodies seem to respond to it in different ways, but yeah, language hasn't really got anything to do with it. >> Yeah. >> I mean, there there's a conceptual clarity in the way this sort of speaks about it, but but it's not really about words. It's not found in words. It's not like if I word this right and you listen carefully, then then we'll be on to something. Yeah. It's like all of that is exposed to as the dream. Yeah. Yeah. >> I also I also love the idea that believing in this or not believing in nonuality has no impact. >> Yeah. >> Anyway. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It doesn't m like
45:27 >> Yeah. >> That's Yeah. >> It's cool. >> Yeah. Exactly. Cuz nothing is required. No one needs to believe this. No one needs to disbelieve it. No one needs to agree or disagree. No one needs to get it. Like nothing is needed. There's no requirement. And that's totally freeing. Yeah. I mean, that's why I would suggest that's why we we say unconditional love from time to time, which I know is a heck of a provocative term. Um especially in this context, but it it's because there's nothing no one is going right or wrong here. No one no one ever made a right or wrong choice cuz there isn't a chooser. No one ever did anything.
46:14 So then no one ever did anything right or wrong. And love doesn't see bad, good, better, worse. It's like this is it. Yeah. You you could be a yogi or a a a banker or a post delivery person or an Amazon driver. You could be anything and it's like doesn't matter. Yeah. Yeah. >> Is how you relate with your family. Is that has that changed? >> Apparently so. Yeah. Apparently so. Not not greatly. Um, but I I think
47:03 there's just more relaxation to be honest. There's just more relaxation like because there's no sense that there's no sense that there are separate people really actually interacting and relating. So, it's all just naturally it's it's very natural. I I think I would suggest. Yeah. >> And do they ask why you're always traveling? >> Not really. No, >> my brother does. Me and my brother talk about this a bit. Yeah. He enjoys talking about it. Yeah. But my mom and dad, we we just hang out. Yeah. They don't need to know and I don't need to tell them. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And your brother doesn't say, "I'll come with you." >> Well, he's been to a couple of of the meetings in Leicester. Yeah.
47:50 >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> He's thinking of coming this December, actually, so that'll be nice. >> Yeah. I mean what what apparently and and I'm telling a little story here but what became apparent in this story line was that there's even though I'm speaking about this so to speak that you know speaking about this is appearing to happen there really isn't a sense and this isn't going to make any sense but there isn't a sense that anyone needs to know this that that I mean there isn't anything to be known anyway. But there's there's no sense that anyone needs to jump on board and you know get on with this or certainly not with close
48:37 relatives. Um >> you know there there was never really any sense that you know my brother or my other brother like got two older brothers or and my parents like there's no sense that any of them need to know about this or that I you know that I need to convert them you know or anything like that like all of that stuff just completely wonderfully went out the window. So if they were religious, spiritual, atheistic or agnostic or any other sort of creed, pathway religion or view like literally none of it matters in in the most loveliest way. Like it doesn't matter what what people are seeming to hold on to because it's all unconditional love. Yeah.
49:23 But as though there was a sense of someone knowing about this, then that's different, isn't it? because then I seem to have this >> and then I might be, you know, interacting with other people and trying to then there's a then there's a negotiation at play. Yeah. Some kind of transaction and that's where it can get a little bit uh well choppy as we can all imagine. Well, it's noticeable for me cuz I have seven brothers and sisters >> and uh with a lot of them now I have a much more relaxed relationship.
50:10 >> That's nice. >> It's very nice. >> It's really something I >> enjoy and there's no >> Yeah, there's no trying to outdo each other or anything. It was just >> it's really nice. And then it's sad that my sister reacts in the way that she did. >> Yeah. >> But um yeah, I've noticed because I'm more relaxed and I don't expect anything. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. So kind of >> Yeah. In the appearance of it, it can seem like people are objects. Really, if it
50:58 seems like there's a subject, then everyone else seems to be an object, even the nearest and dearest, which might seem a little bit harsh to put it that way. But naturally, I am only seeing objects. I the subject, I'm only seeing objects. And so if I have siblings spouses children parents etc., I'm only ever seeing them as objects. And in that is a kind of transactional reality. They're not really seen as they are. Um, so again, that would be another reason why unconditional love is used as a term because it's there's no opposition and that doesn't mean that everything is harmonious, obviously, you know.
51:44 doesn't mean that everything is wonderful and colorful and nice, but there's no transaction going on. There's no real exchange. There's no what's in it for me and what's in it for you and all that stuff. There can still be conflict obviously, but um it's not separate. It's not like you and me and how we're going to relate or negotiate. Yeah. And certain games that get played in that whole transactional reality seem to fall apart in the story. Not that they need to, that they can and
52:31 tend to. And do you have any uh personal relationships after a collapse to nonduality? Um, so if we're just talking like apparently normal human beings. Yes. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. a very very beautiful friendship
53:21 obviously with with my dear friend and brother Tobias >> and my dear friend and sister Tatiana and my dear friend and sister Simona and Elizabeth and many others. Yeah. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. H yeah, I mean it doesn't really seem like in the way of relationships that there's a great deal that is actually different, you know, or even dynamically different. Um it seems like for the most part
54:06 things are quite as they were before. It just isn't just isn't sensed to be to be revolving around someone that's all which I know maybe sounds really odd. Um but yeah it's just as it was but it doesn't seem to be positional. It doesn't seem like there's two bodies here for example that are actually exchanging glances and words and one's receiving and one's giving. Like that sense that there are separate bodies, separate words, separate sounds, all that stuff. It's kind of just blended. Everything's kind of blended into this vibrant void of immediacy. Yeah. So, jealousy couldn't show up.
54:53 >> Jealousy? Oh, good question. Um, I don't know to tell you the truth. It doesn't seem to have, >> but but maybe. I'm not going to say definitely not. You know, >> same as clinging and so on. Uh cleaning again it's a little bit abstract in terms of what we mean by that. Um but bodies obviously in the appearance have preferences. So there there might be but not not for a personal gain because there isn't a person >> to lose or gain. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean we look at dogs for example and we see how attached and jealous they can get right. >> Yes. And it doesn't they don't seem to be expressing as individuals, you know? I mean, they're very like expressive and
55:38 they're hilarious and they have, you know, fun characteristics and whatnot, but it doesn't seem like there's actually someone there, but they still can seem to express things like, >> you know, uh, attachment, like separation, anxiety, and and no attachment and, um, jealousy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's what I would You know, if if there was anything to be said about any of that, what seems to be comfortable is that there's no rules. Yeah. There's no rules. It's not like this is how it is when there's someone and this is how it is when there's no one. Cuz that's a black and white distinction which is dualistic. Yeah. Which is great because it means that there's no symptoms to watch out for
56:24 absence. Woo. like we're really getting somewhere, you know, like I'm less this today or, you know, trying to measure, you know, it's there's nothing to measure. Yeah. No measurement in the absolute.
57:12 Huh? Um so there is no duality at all in relations for example also no no apparent duality >> would you say >> it's a funny old term isn't it >> to say there's no duality is is is kind of an oxymoron >> if you understand that word. It's like
57:59 to say that there is no duality is to say that there is a thing called duality >> that isn't >> and that it doesn't make any sense, does it? >> So, uh yeah, it can't really be said if there is or isn't duality >> because to say that there is or isn't is in itself is a dualistic statement. It would seem. I know I'm going into like abstract terminology and conceptual jargon, but but what what seems to be expressed is that there's no there's no thing to be dualistic. There's no thing to live in relation or opposition to anything else >> without abstraction. And abstraction too would be just
58:44 immediately this. Um but yeah, the yin and yang there there there can seem to be two, but they're not really two. Yeah, like night and day, you know, there's not really two separate things happening. >> So the appearance of dualities then a misconceptions somehow of the me. Um it seems to be like this that there's that there seems to be something observing and in that sense of observing there seems to be things happening >> like night and day seasons uh masculine and feminine you know here and there now
59:31 and then all all of this seems to be polarized and abstracted and fragmented >> lots of things but What what is apparent is that in the absence of a misconception of a center, >> this does not seem to be felt or sensed or perceived as anything. >> Not even one thing. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Not even one thing. >> It's nameless really. And so language can't really get there. It's it's just this nameless. Namelessly this >> when there is no thing then can then also no opposites. >> Yeah. No opposition >> or no relations and so of of different
1:00:17 >> things. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean it doesn't make any sense at all. Yeah. that you know duality and non-duality. >> Yeah. As concept it's senseless. >> It's absolutely senseless. Yeah. >> Cuz can you can you imagine duality and non-duality? >> That's two. >> So it doesn't make sense. Even the words duality and non-duality doesn't make sense >> cuz one is two and the other is not two. But that's two. It's like it literally makes no sense. It's utterly absurd. Yeah. >> And the absolute and relative would be
1:01:03 another. Like there's the absolute here and the relative here. Well, how is the absolute going to relate to the relative? >> Duality and non-duality are both what is and is not. >> Yeah. >> Neither are >> nothing is. >> Yeah. We cannot imagine that. Yeah. Yeah. >> to for understanding or or of that. >> I mean, it's utterly nonsensical. Yeah. It's utterly it's hilariously nonsensical. >> Yeah. But it does kind of stun something. It
1:01:50 seems to Yeah, it seem seems to stun something. You say all is empty. >> It seems to say emptiness, doesn't it? Yeah. >> Okay. Empty. Yes. But it seems to the body is preferring comfort or feel good and uh you will be looking for naturally after I fall apart you will be body will be won't feel fine or >> or some pleasure. >> Yeah. Right. >> It's natural. >> Yes. >> And >> bodying has Yeah. There's preferences. There's enjoyment of comfort over
1:02:36 discomfort. You could say that. Yeah. >> Okay. Uh and then there there are some substances like he said before. >> Mhm. >> And you won't do it better than it is by these substances. Uh yeah, it depends what the context is really. I mean >> uh body won't feel comfortable and feel some good good vibes or something like that. I have a drink or >> a coffee without I >> right right >> and it doesn't make sense to me >> because uh I think uh drug who takes
1:03:25 drugs >> um don't accept presence how it is and >> want a little bit escape from from this situation. I >> I am not sure but maybe it is not like that. Yeah, I understand that. Yeah, I understand how that reservation could appear when it looks like what's there is what's there to escape to and what's there to escape from. Yeah. But no one is really already located in a body to choose to escape or abide. Yeah. So, >> okay. And if there is nobody um you didn't have a remembrance of this feeling how it was before
1:04:12 >> in the story line there was a great in the story line there was a great deal of seeking yeah drinking and and and partying and but but sometimes partying still happens you know >> just having fun you know I mean the body's got its own natural expression and preferences but it's not it's not coming from this place of something is deeply existentially lacking. So, I'd better fill that up with the substance. Yeah. But there's still the conditioning and the preferencing like playing out organically and naturally. It's just not moving from a place of lack. Yeah. But but you know, we have to be careful in a way in the terminology of that because it could also be a seeking energy to abstain from things. That would just be another expression from the point of
1:04:58 view of an an illusory seeker that feels like something's lacking. So, I'll abstain and then I'll find this to be more wholesome. Right? If it's coming from that position, it can't win. Any path it seems to take is imagining that it's going to get fulfillment, which there's nothing wrong with that. It's totally innocent. But it kind of fools itself sometimes or a lot of the time that that it's it's it's doing the right thing with its own choice that it's going to get to that fulfillment. So it imagines maybe that that's that that's substance, drugs or alcohol or people, sex or or maybe it turns towards abstaining from those things and turning
1:05:43 towards and embarking upon a spiritual or religious quest. Again, it it can't go wrong or right with any of that because that's its relative reality of feeling like it's making progress somewhere else. But without that kind of storytelling energy and the fantasy of going to an imagined destination called wholeness or you know the divine or enlightenment there's just this there's just this and it doesn't need to be abstension and it doesn't need to be indulgence it doesn't need to be normaly or or uh what's the word moderation even it can just be what it is but there's no one there navigating that there's no sense that anyone is is choosing to to go this way or that way. Yeah.
1:06:29 I mean, I'm not going to speak on behalf of other people who, you know, like, you know, like to take certain mindaltering substances or whatever. Um, it's just Yeah. I mean, yeah. Who could who could speak on behalf of another body, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. But it it brings some relief. Again, it depends what the circumstance is. You know, without it being an example, it's it's too hypothetical. And I like if it's if you give me an example, we can kind of explore that a bit more because otherwise it's too hypothetical, you know? >> Say everyone's different as well. Like when people drink, some people get angry.
1:07:14 >> Yeah. >> Everyone's different. >> Yeah. Me, >> I just like to dance around and Oh, yeah. You know, >> dancing is good. Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. Yeah. It it could easily be heard that that I'm seeking and maybe one day I can stop seeking. And I thought that seeking was going to get to the end of seeking by getting a substance or the whatever it was that I was imagining was going to fill me up. But now I've heard about this non-duality stuff. I've come to feel and
1:07:59 think and believe that seeking that's the thing that's getting in the way. So I'll seek to not seek and then I'll find what I'm looking for. Right? I mean, I'm saying this in with a smirk because that's what this body did. That's what it thought that was going to lead to, you know, wholeness, right? That seeking was in the way of that. It's just total nonsense. Yeah. It's innocently nonsense. And um you know what what these stories appear as is like if this doesn't happen then it will be better or if I do that then this will be better or if I'm doing that then I'm still seeking you know uh and it's kind of it's just storytelling. Yeah. It's just storytelling.
1:08:45 Like if I'm drinking five cups of coffee a day then that means I'm still a seeker. or if I'm still smoking weed even one I'm down to one a day I'm still a seeker you know you can't measure this can't be measured yeah there really is no right or wrong way to be yeah it's all innocence it's all I mean I'm not and I'm not justifying and I'm not condoning or condemning any behaviors like that's how radical this is really but that there's no right or wrong way to be and I think that that really is the most loving expression of all it's not It's not a free pass. It's not a free pass because that could very easily be heard like party.
1:09:31 Hooray. Yeah. But you see, it's trying to measure like there's this energy that's trying to measure the appearance and it's like, no, it doesn't have to be like that. Yeah. We've never took a right or wrong step towards or away from the garden. It's all there is >> because no one's made the choice. >> Well, that that that's part of it for sure. >> Yeah. >> There's no autonomy. >> No. >> Then it's just happening anyway. >> Exactly. I mean, that's one of the major major cards that the house of cards is built upon is autonomy.
1:10:19 I mean, if there's no autonomy, not even 1% then well, then it's over. >> It never wasn't over. Yeah. There's nothing to get to or away from. This idea that someone's going to fall away is just it's another it's just another it's another story. Yeah.
1:11:13 is deliciously freeing that no one has ever taken a right or a wrong step because no one has ever taken a step. There's an impersonal revelation, an impersonal revolution. It was never not this. And no one owns that. Even a body sitting at the front of a room, it doesn't own that. Nothing is owning that. There's no one owning it. It's unownable. It's too open for
1:12:01 ownership. It's wide open. >> Do you sit in your room like this? >> Um, I used to sit for a lot longer, but but not so much now. Yeah, I still like to sit quietly sometimes. Yeah, >> just chill. >> Yeah, just chilling. >> Yeah, Netflix as well is chill. Yeah,
1:12:46 it can be whatever it wants to be. Yeah. It looks like you live very minimalistic. >> Yeah, fairly. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah. >> It's kind of a preference, I guess. >> Yeah. It's okay. M >> so we don't have to to clean so much. >> That's true. Yeah. Yeah. >> So much.
1:13:33 >> Yeah. Keeping the room tidy is is a lot easier than it used to be, I guess. >> This is a lovely apartment. It's beautiful, isn't it? >> Amazing. >> We got the Garden of Eden. >> It's gorgeous. >> And you haven't seen the views yet? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Have you been to Prague before? >> No. >> First time. >> Sweet. >> Thought I was rich cuz I changed 300 quid and I got 7,800 or something.
1:14:22 >> Yeah. >> Conversion rate is quite something. >> I heard the McDonald's is lovely. >> Really? >> Yeah. I McDonald's is on point. >> You may have to try it out. >> Definitely going to the club. I didn't understand what is lovely. Can I say it again? >> McDonald's apparently is really good here. >> I don't know if anyone else can testify that. >> Apparently, I don't know. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm going to try >> things to do in Prague. Check McDonald's and go to a club. >> The train station is beautiful. >> I would I would like to go to that David Lynch Museum exhibition rather. Yeah.
1:15:07 Was that Banksy? >> No, David Lynch. >> David Lynch. >> I didn't even know that that was on. >> I didn't know either. I was just uh looking for like an exhibition or something and it just popped out. Now it's on. I know what I'm going to do today, you know. >> Is it near here? >> Uh it's uh Doc's contemporary art museum. I think >> Yeah, it's not here. >> No, it's not here. It's more like across the river of New York. I don't know. >> H >> not too far. >> Would be pretty cool to go to that. >> So, what's >> I mean, I'm I'm not a massive fan or anything but >> what's your favorite movie from >> My favorite movie from Lynch? Yes. Oh
1:15:54 gosh. >> Oh man. >> You had to choose. >> That's hard. That's hard. Uh, I feel inclined to say Mull Holland Drive, but it's a hardcore. I mean, my favorite work of his is absolutely Twin Peaks >> 100%. >> Seriously. >> Yeah. Yeah. But obviously that's a Sorry, we've gone off. >> He's a film director and a and a painter and sculpture. He does lots of different things. He's very odd. Surrealism. Yeah. very very >> does he like nonuality? >> Um he's dead now but but he probably was somewhat into it. He was good friends with Harry Dean Stanton who was
1:16:41 listening to Tony Parson's before he died. Um yeah. Yeah. And um he knew about I think he knew a little bit about it but he was into TM transcendental meditation which is how he kind of worked you know he sort of sat and repeated mantra and got into states. It's all it's all story based stuff, but uh it's quite interesting actually. He's a fascinating guy and his work is like incredible. Yeah, recommend it. I don't know if you're into weird stuff, but uh >> No, this is kind of weird. >> Well, this is absolutely I mean, if you can take this, if you can take this, then >> that's the thing though. Nothing else is interesting to me. >> All right. Everyone's like, "Oh, >> this consumed you." >> Yeah. Like, oh, this new film in there. I don't care. But bring me some
1:17:27 nonuality. >> I don't care about anything else. >> Wow. >> Everything else is boring. >> Yeah. >> Gosh. >> Even though this is meant to be boring to other people. >> It's not sick. >> That's amazing. >> I don't like watching films anymore. >> How I mean this is like I've not This isn't about stop watching films. I promise. >> Only David Lynch. Yeah, he's all right. >> It's like when people >> stories and you just think so what >> Okay, I see. Yeah, there can I understand how there can be a loss of interest in stories. I mean, >> but then that's not necessarily always
1:18:13 going to be that way. Yeah. >> It's like when people go into the football, oh my football team, I'm like they're just kicking a ball like they're kicking ball goal. That's it. Yeah, >> there's there's nothing else. >> Yeah. Whereas sitting here and talking about nothing is where it's at, right? >> Literally. Literally. It's crazy. >> That's where it's at. >> Exciting. >> Literally. >> That is brilliant. Wow. >> Like even design trying to impress people and all that. It's got >> trying to get goals. >> Mhm. >> I don't know. It's not interesting. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And it's I have the same thing with the movies. I used to like movies. >> We got the mic. Yeah. >> Why? Why?
1:18:59 >> Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to say I know why that is, but but it could it could be that there's just less of an investment in stories, that's all. But then it might not be. It might just be less of an interest in fantasy and imagination, which is another way of saying the same thing. Um, >> it depends. >> It's kind of It's kind of sad for me that I I'm not enjoying movies anymore. >> Everybody's like, "Oh, come and watch movies or go to the movies." Why? >> And >> you're in the movies thinking about non-duality. >> Well, yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, an affair with non-duality. Yeah.
1:19:46 I'm sitting there thinking, "Oh, Alexis and Tobias, we got a meeting coming up. Let me get prepared." >> Well, you know, and if it's been exposed that there's nothing to get from any object that I think I'm relating to, then that's kind of been penetrated. Like I kind of believed once upon a time I was going to get some kind of fulfillment from watching this movie or taking this substance or having that partner or you know whatever it is and and it's kind of being penetrated that whole energy of getting an object that's going to fill me up. It's like kind of obvious that that's not going to work if that if that was my intention to going to the movies or going wherever it was I
1:20:32 seem to be going. If if that's obviously not going to fill me up, then yeah, it would seem pretty pretty understandable how the energy, the investment in doing those things, going to those places, relating to those people can crumble. Yeah. I mean, I can say that there were certain relationships that did kind of fall away for me because because it was all about we're validating each other as real people that have separate realities and we're both we're all all individuals. And that that kind of if if there's no receptivity to the the fallacy of all of that then then it's like there's no more
1:21:19 ability to invest in those situations which can be quite devastating. Yeah. Can be quite heartbreaking even. >> Yeah. >> You stop going to the movies, you stop going to the theaters, >> but it doesn't need to stop happening. >> It doesn't need. But I I don't find that enjoyment anymore. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I'm like sitting there and Okay. >> Yeah. >> But what's that about, you know? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I I went to the movies after like 5 years like 1 month ago, but only because it was about Depes. >> All right. >> And I thought, well, maybe there will be some music at least, you know. >> And of course, there was a music. So it
1:22:06 was okay. >> Sorry. >> There was or there wasn't. >> There was music, but >> just didn't hit the spot. >> It was okay, but you know, it wasn't as like in the past I was really excited about things like that. >> Yeah. >> There's something about the thrill of the hunt. >> Thrill. >> The thrill. >> The thrill of the hunt. basically that I'm the dream is that there's a seeker and a sort thing and there's a kind of excitement in that. Yeah. But within the excitement is disease and dissatisfaction. Yeah.
1:22:53 >> But that's subtle. What's more gross is the thrill. The thrill of the hunt, the thrill of getting the chase, you know, like after the I go after this. >> Mhm. And I go after it because I Yeah. I want to get it. >> Consumption. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> More and more and more. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Maybe that movie will be >> Yeah. >> will make me, you know, happy forever. I don't know. >> Well, Barbie was pretty good. >> Yeah. >> Bobby. >> Barbie. That was pretty good. >> Barbie. Barbie. >> I'm a Barbie girl. Barbie is that >> sing it. Yeah.
1:23:41 >> Tell the camera. >> You know Barbie the the doll. >> Yeah. The film about the doll. Yeah. >> Oh, the film about the doll. >> Yeah. I mean, I'm I am somewhat joking, but I am also somewhat being slightly serious as as as serious as one could be about such a thing. Yeah. No, actually it's generally worth a watch. >> To the creed. >> Oh, he was fantastic. But but actually it is worth a watch because it kind of questions the nature of reality. >> Yeah, I would suggest. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz she finds out she's not real >> and then she goes on this like existential quest. It's, you know, I mean, it's not going to make you happy forever. >> Well, then I'm not going.
1:24:26 >> But it might kill an hour and a half or two. Yeah, I mean there are worse movies out there apparently. I find it interesting when the films say based on a true story. >> Oh yes. Right. >> Yeah. That's that's a good one, isn't it? >> Yeah. You know, true story. >> Yeah. >> I used to like reading biographies,
1:25:14 >> but that also just a story >> collapsed. Yeah. >> And how or what these people did >> and everybody has their story. >> And so that doesn't do anything for me anymore either. M >> so >> oh you know if people say well it's a good film because it's based on a true story you know so it's like yeah it must must have a lot more depth to it or a lot more because it's based on a true story. >> Yeah. It sounds inviting somehow. >> Yeah. >> Something reliable. >> Yeah. So that's how people are grabbed by that. >> Mhm. There's a lot about serial killers as well. Jeffrey Darm and all this
1:26:01 >> Ed G and I'm just like I don't care. Killed a few people. What? >> It's all good. >> Moaning is moaning. Rejoicing is rejoicing. >> But yeah, I agree with what you're saying. Like Yeah. Just by the way, I tend to read more fiction than I did before. Okay. >> Just in case anyone else is the worrying about losing certain interests in storytelling or fiction. Yeah. But I just don't, you know, it's just what is. Yeah. There's no sense that it's re I mean, the story in the book is
1:26:47 no more or less real than this, you know. Well, then it doesn't matter if that's the preference or not. You know, it's happening or it isn't. Yeah. But I do understand that there's there can be like a a lack of interest in things that once upon a time seemed so important, significant, meaningful, and special. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like you saying even like worrying about losing interest in things even that it's like right worry like it doesn't matter like >> exactly yeah >> the only thing interesting probably is death I would say then >> death
1:27:33 >> yeah that's the most like most interesting of all >> because it can't be understood and known yeah that's why >> that's the fascination with the unknown yeah >> not saying that in a suicidal or anything like that, but like do you know what I mean? Like >> Well, we talked about that in London. That that seems to be the the fascination then as well. >> Yeah. >> It's the that seemed to be the pull towards this is a fascination with the unknown. >> And yet there's the >> Yeah. >> Cuz it's the greatest fear out of all of them. >> Well, it arguably it is the only fear. Yeah. Yeah. But it is the ultimate fear. It It's two different ways of saying it. But yeah,
1:28:21 fear of absence, fear of unknown. There's also fear of the loss of control, of course, which no one ever even had to let go of. Arguably the same thing. And it's like you're thinking about it like not daily, but you're thinking like what is this all for? up for what? >> One day, you know what I'm saying? I'm just going to go and that's it. >> But then like you're saying is I never was even there >> originally. >> That's mental. That is cool. That is so cool. That is I love that. I don't know, man. That's just >> Yeah, cuz even the question and even this the that sentence spoke itself,
1:29:07 you know? Even the microphone put itself down. And it didn't happen by anyone's doing. >> It just might seem to be a felt perception or center that that that is not really there. It's it's like a phantom or a hologram. Yeah. >> I'm confused. >> Well, no one spoke. No one said I'm confused. That's the point. No one actually just said those words. It speaks itself already. just like a program, >> right? Sort of. And the and the thoughts that try and understand that, that's also just what's appearing to happen. >> Trying to figure that out. That's just
1:29:53 coming up. It's just what's spontaneously arising, so to speak,
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