0:01 Can I stop? >> Yes. >> I I always realize that uh I misunderstand the the message as it would say that there is nothing to do. >> Yes. >> Again and again I I realized that after a while I forgot that there is it's not about that okay there is no me but there is nothing to do >> there. Yeah. misunderstanding because probably because actually I don't want to do I I don't want this doing and then I always okay after a while I start to misunderstand >> yeah but that's also what the person is looking for kind of >> you mean not >> to relax that this message somehow implies that you should relax that you
0:47 shouldn't do anything that you should be happy that you should come to a fulfilled experience So >> that's the hope. >> Yeah. And it's for me it's not like you should but you can like I I >> Yeah. But you can very quickly turns into I should. >> Mhm. >> In a way. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In order to be relaxed what I want. >> Exactly. That's what I mean. >> Yeah. >> It's >> for the person it's always a bit more serious. It's not like, "Oh, I can if I want." No, it's actually I should. >> Yeah. It's more Yeah. I'm sure that it's serious. Life is serious. >> Life is serious. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
1:34 Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And of course, there is this unconscious hope that this is somehow that this has a goal. >> Yeah. It will lead to some somewhere. >> Exactly. Because otherwise it wouldn't really make sense. >> Yeah. >> Or it would really make no sense. >> No, it really makes no sense. >> And what is your thoughts about I am dead? >> Well, it depends. It's often also misunderstood because the person
2:21 would regard it as some kind of experience or that I actually am some kind of absolute truth or something. >> What do you mean by uh not the person is the absolute but there is the absolute? >> Yeah. The person thinks that there is some kind of absolute reality and that I can become that I can become I can have an absolute experience or something. >> Okay. >> But of course all there is is what seems to be happening and there is no separation from that. So in that sense in a bit bit of a poetic way one could say of course I am that too. >> Yeah.
3:06 >> Yeah. I meant like that. >> Yes. Exactly. >> Okay. >> So, >> but there is no one having an experience of being them. >> Of course. >> Yeah. Yes. >> Yeah. But everyone is dead. >> Everyone everything is >> everything. >> What we talk about >> it's included. It's from the same source. >> Yeah. See, that's what I'm not saying. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. Wait, wait, wait, wait. So, the the the there is there must be something. >> No, >> wait. Let me please finish. >> Sorry. >> So, uh I mean not in the person's you,
3:53 but there is an intelligence. >> No, >> really. No, there's just tables and chairs. >> How does it come? How do you who created? >> This is not created. This is literally nothing. There is no creation. >> Yeah. But to be able to see, to touch, to have this illusion, it must be something there who is creating must be an intelligence who is showing us as an a mirroring basically because An absolute is nothing. Nothing at all. But the mirroring this is this
4:41 what we see the world and somehow something an intelligent needed to be creating this to be seen. >> Well, that's not what I'm saying. >> Okay. What is your point? I would like to see what is your point. Who who who how can we see this illusion? How can we not happening to sit here and see this and touch and feel and hear and >> but all of that doesn't happen. >> Yeah. But it's still happening. So it's happening and not happening at the same time. It's empty and full at the same time. So it's reality and illusion at the same time. So it need to be somehow um
5:26 >> no but it's everything. This us sitting together here is the relative absolute but there is no source. This is the uncaused natural reality which is completely unknown. If you remember the deep sleep example >> Mhm. That's how is sitting in a room without there being anyone experiencing it. It isn't even known if there is sitting in a room or not. And there is no idea of a source. There is no idea of anything happening.
6:14 So, nothing knows if there's a table or not. Nothing knows that there is Andrea sitting here saying that there is a table. This is literally the unknown and inexperienced natural reality >> which doesn't have >> Oh, no one sees that. what I just said. No one experiences that. I understand but >> yes no one >> I am looking for the I cannot explain there is the absolute >> no
7:00 >> sorry >> there is one absolute >> no >> no absolute >> no no that's >> you just said as well there is the absolute >> I said the table the relative ative is the absolute us sitting together here is totally itself. >> How can be that you are telling me the other one and other one is telling something different and you are both enlightened as >> no I'm not enlightened. No, sorry. I'm >> No, please do not take my words always so p vises uh pedestrian um >> pedantic. >> Yeah,
7:45 >> because you know I cannot speak otherwise because >> yeah I too can't speak otherwise. >> How can it be that one is the same like you saying there is one source and you are telling me no there is not not even absolute. Oh, because because this person isn't the same as here. Obviously, because obviously he or she is saying something else. It seems to be a personal teaching. Maybe this person calls him or herself enlightened, which I don't anyway. So maybe it's just not the same. But Ramana says too there is a source.
8:34 >> Okay. But I know >> then then how can it be that there are so conflicts? I mean this is for me a little bit too. >> Well, I'm not in conflict with that. It's totally fine for me. I mean it happens all the time that people say all kinds of things without having any clue at all. Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah, >> there are 8 million people, 8 million words, 8 million views. So, it's fine. >> So, yeah, I can I can only say what I can say. Um, so
9:28 But in regards to what I say, there is no such thing as an absolute. It's a a personal idea of a god. It's a a bit more like God in heaven now has become the absolute. But it's another idea or projection of the person. It's just a hope that there is a deeper reality to us sitting here. >> No, it's not. I did not say and it was also don't say it says exactly almost exactly the same just that there is an intelligence who was creating this but otherwise it says also
10:14 not enlightened there is no one there is nothingness there is blah blah everything the same >> and I say something completely different I say there is no creation >> and there is no intelligence M >> so >> yeah this is different >> it's very different >> or maybe we just talk like this and not >> I'm not sure because for me it's clear if there's a creation and there is an intelligence you have duality for me these are two things and usually in a personal teaching one is regarded as the relative and one is regarded as the absolute so and of Because conceptually in those
11:00 teachings they are somehow connected but they actually remain two realities. So to me that's a personal idea which is always based on duality and there being two realities and two realities from which one is more real than the other. >> I don't see those absolutely not what then but it's not like this. >> Yeah. Then as I said it's maybe just only the words like in the communication even what I said is just not true anymore. So
12:05 >> You know, when you said in the first bit that you didn't think you would die. >> Mhm. >> Did you think there'd be some continuation of like a new experience? >> Yeah, of course. That's the only thing the person can comprehend that there is a future that there'll be some kind of awareness about this future >> and something will still be going on. >> Yeah. >> In time. >> Yeah. Absolutely. Of course. >> Because obviously sometimes I'll say to you or Tony or Jim about, oh, you know, you're lucky because you've had this number of years of not being there. And they'll be like, well, there wasn't that time. >> No. Because the imagination, the person, well, I can talk for myself. The person
12:50 has the imagination. And Andreas died like 14 years ago. He's had 14 years of being no one. >> His 14 years of enjoying his gorgeous absence. >> Absence. Yeah. >> Yeah. Oh, no. It's the end of life. >> So, literally, there weren't 14 years. >> Literally, there weren't 14 years. And literally, there wasn't a life before that either. >> Oh, yeah. >> So, timelessness. That's really I want to see where we go with this because like but this appears >> well as we just said not really it's not appearing in terms of coming into existence not even as an appearance >> but it seems to be here.
13:38 >> Yeah. But only for the one who's looking at it. That's the thing. The moment there is the notion of existence which is the notion of I have appeared. I was born out of nothingness. Everything seems to be an appearance. It's a projection. It's an energetic projection. But you sorry >> the the sense of creation, the sense of having appeared is the feeling that the person lives in. And it projects this feeling onto everything. It is apparently aware of. >> But you could look at the flowers and say there's flowers.
14:23 >> Oh, but that is the empty and inexperienced reality. There is no subject me awareness looking at an object the flowers that's the thing this already is the impersonal undivided nothing only when there is the illusion of presence in the body you do see present flowers only from this feeling of I'm created, I'm born or I have been born. The flowers seem to be something that
15:09 has also been born that is there as an appearance or as real flowers that's just conceptual stuff. If the person calls this flowers or the appearance of flowers, it doesn't matter. But the underlying energetic dynamic is the same. I'm here real and this is something that's real. But when this reality, when this notion of existence collapses, there are no flowers anymore. That's the funny thing that this whole sense of existence is only a feeling that happens for the person. Nothing, none of that experiences itself
15:57 to be existing. Not even the human body. It's only this sense of awareness which says only to itself, I exist. I experience myself. Nothing else does do them. And what's being said here is that even this sense of but I'm here it's without substance. It's if at all it's an illusion. That's why creation itself is dreamt that there is something happening at all. And when I say this is an appearance the person would be left with the impression
16:42 yeah but an but an appearance is happening. same dynamic. No, there is nothing happening and this is nothing happening. And when I make this, the person would again say, "Yeah, but you are pointing to this. So this does exist." Still assuming that there is a separate something in here experiencing this its own movement the touching the person lives in a subject object reality with its own body it experiences the touching and from
17:28 this it says but there is the real touching. Yeah, because I'm just thinking how can there not be anything that's real? But then I think is that just a me saying how could I not be real? >> Yeah, that's the same thing exactly. But this is not conceptual. That's I I I know I shouldn't. It's not so important the deep sleep thing, but how is it when there really is no one, not as a concept, when there's literally in this moment, so to speak, no one there experiencing anything. How is it then? >> Well, there still is a happening. It's just nothing's aware of it. Oh, but when
18:14 you But that's already a conceptualization. >> Yeah. >> In this very moment when there is no one who could say these words even >> that's already looking from the outside. That's already a knowing kind of. Yeah. There is still a happening just for Exactly. It's an intellectual reflection. >> That's not what we talk about. What would you say in the very moment that you are really not there? No reflection on reality or no reality or illusion or no illusion or the
19:00 relative and the absolute and it being like this or the no one there. Everything else is dreamt. Nothing against that. Dream is all right. But it's just stories and concepts and ideas on the nature of reality which is actually incomprehensible because it's inexperienced. And that's of course the directness of this Not theoretical stuff and also not
19:45 experiential stuff. What you can still experience and what not. That doesn't play any role here. Just say that the whole sensory apparatus in the body is of appearance. There's actually Nothing's sensing. >> Exactly. >> That's the thing. What is the li the same how is the living body the breathing feeling thinking, acting body without someone experiencing it.
20:32 >> It sounds really disorientating. >> That is such a weird idea for the person. How there can be life an apparently living yeah as I said living body with sensations with thoughts and feelings which itself is completely inexperienced without any division of a separate awareness. It's the same emptiness. It's the same no conclusion to it. No one asking even. >> So there's no center anywhere to find.
21:18 >> Absolutely. Not even the body does experience itself to be there. Yeah. This this uh creation idea is also about that it seems to be structured like the word or this table seems to be something that is structured more than chaotic chaotic and that's why like it cames to the comes to the mind at least here that okay it may be created because it seems to be structured. Yeah, but
22:04 that's already finding reasons for it. >> As I said, the the the first structure is I am. >> It's just another projection. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Why is this real? Oh, because I'm aware of it. >> Otherwise, there is no no reality. But also the the me or I cannot I mean this is the general experience that everything comes to existence. So there is a process of coming into existence. But that's what the me can experience generally. >> It's all just a projection from its experience. I was born.
22:50 >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Suddenly I came into existence. It experiences that every morning. I'm here again. out of nothing. I'm back. And every concept that we have about reality also evolution and the big bang and stuff, it's seen through personal eyes and it only reflects its own experience and the whole seeking starts when there is I'm born. Where did I come from? What's this about? What am I doing here? What's going on here?
23:40 >> But it's >> what? Now that's also a bit one of the theory of those old masters. But what was before you were born? >> And again, not as a concept, literally. How was it? How was it before the illusion of consciousness was born? >> But isn't this the the same what you have just said that like a few minutes before that what what if there is no one who is touching? >> Mhm. >> It's is it the same? >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah. That's what I mean when I say something like how was it before you were born or this deep sleep thing. It's not really
24:26 pointing to another reality. It's just saying that even right now while we are sitting on chairs and we apparently see each other. It's the same dynamic when there is no one. It's the same blankness. And when there is someone, this seems real. I'm real. There is a room. And the only proof for the person that it's real is, oh yeah, because I experience it. I'm aware of it. >> But also, I can't help it. >> Oh, no. There's nothing wrong with that. >> Because it's the same nothingness. It's an illusion that only happens to itself.
25:15 I mean nothing else in this whole universe takes notice of there being a me which wants to become enlightened and talks about God or something. It's not even recognized. It's nothing doesn't play any role. >> But for for the me is this is also a kind of the proof of duality. So, so the human being is the only one that wants to reflect on itself. >> Its experience is dual. I am born. >> Yeah. >> Already creates the duality because it has it all instantly has this question. Yeah. What I'm what am I born out of?
26:04 >> The moment you have one thing, you automatically have two. I'm me and space around me or a source or it's it it duality in that sense is its experience. It doesn't even have to think about it in that sense. >> Yeah. >> It's like a primal experience. >> Exactly. Which is the seed of separation so to speak. Yeah. Just pure presence. I'm here [Music] and out of that do come all the seeking all the concepts all the ideas the
26:50 impression that there is something that's what we talked about before the person can't go beyond this notion but there is something the person no matter how deeply It inquires into reality. It'll always end with this conclusion. There is something. I don't know what it is. I can't comprehend it, but I know that it is because the person is that feeling until it's just not there anymore.
27:36 And nothing changes in that. It's not better or worse before or after. Well, >> while you are speaking, I again have this thought that there is nothing to do. I cannot work it out. >> Which is true. But I'm also saying that you don't exist. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So I can't work it out is already a conclusion. But that conclusion is kind of included into what I'm saying. >> Yeah.
28:22 It's the person trying to work out sitting in a room in Munich. And it will fail. >> But still having the hope. >> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's fine. It It'll just go on trying to do them until it collapses.
29:21 What's the difference between the night dream and this dream? >> Is there any difference? >> Well, not really. Everything just is exactly what it is. But for no one. So in that sense there is no difference between night sleep, deep sleep and day sleep. Again the only thing that would discriminate would be the experiencer. The experience of the me think he woke
30:07 up from the night dream. >> Exactly. Yeah. And often in the night dream there can also all usually there's already the illusion of the experiencer there. That's why it's also so simple for the person the idea of awakening because it's also it's experience kind of in a way it constantly awakens from one reality into another one also during the day >> kind of oh until 5 minutes ago I thought it's like this now I woke up to another reality Now I understand it's like this
30:54 and it has that from night dream to the daydream. It always wakes up to another reality in its experience. >> So as long there is an experiencer it is deep. >> Exactly. The experiencer itself is the [Music] >> is the only dream. [Music] Yep.
31:40 Well, it's an apparent dream only. So, another thing that didn't come into existence, it's not happening really. There is no dream.
32:29 My sister last meeting she asked me, "What do you get from the meeting with Andreas. >> Yeah. >> She was ask me again. >> And what did you tell her? >> I said as always there is no one. >> Simple. >> Yeah. And that's not a teaching. It's a response. It's just saying you are talking to someone who's not there anymore and who cannot provide any answer. I thought that [ __ ] that
33:16 we were I guess she wasn't really satisfied. >> Yeah, I think >> she's also
34:02 she she like this. >> Mhm. What? But my son should come here and watch me. Mhm. I asked him, "Do you understand this topic in English better?" Whether
34:48 he said that in in unconsciousness of him, but because I The old day I listen to don't worry. >> So listen heard also he also has to listen sometimes laughed about some pain. Mhm.
35:37 >> I can't I can't believe that I am here in Munich because I I live a childhood with difficulty >> in that time. I can't believe I someday I will be here. Yeah. >> And life is >> unbelievable. >> Yeah. >> That I now here. >> Yes. Well, you aren't really here, but I know what I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. It's a miracle. Yeah.
36:24 No one could make it happen. Yes. But in one dream I I dreamed that I I am speaking English fluently. Mhm. >> Not yet, but it's okay. >> Yeah. Yeah.
37:36 You know, when you say like the absolute bare minimum that he has to do is survive. And sometimes Tony calls this an illumination because it illuminates the the whole illusory nature of being someone. It's like it feels to me like it's just a massive flood light. Do you know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> It's not just a spotlight. It's like a football pitch where they've just put all the flood lights on and there's no one there. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> And I'm just like, "No, turn the lights back off." >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. >> I'm going to I'm almost fulfilled. It's the worst thing imaginable for the me, isn't it?
38:22 >> Absolutely. >> Being pointed out that it doesn't exist. >> Yeah. >> It can rec Like you said, I'm quoting you. I was about to say I was about to tell you this. It's your words, but like >> sitting in a room for no reason is the worst thing for the >> What you said is the me can come back and survive um recover from all sorts of things. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, it can lose all its money, it can recover. It can lose loved ones. It can recover. So on and so on and so on. So then point it out that there's no one there. >> Yeah. Because it's actually not the me recovering out of its own strength. It's re it has the capacity to survive everything because it's an appearance. >> And it has the capacity everything because it's still there.
39:08 >> Yeah. But that's just an appearance. >> Yeah. It doesn't do anything out of actual strength or reality. >> It's an illusion. It's in that sense holiness being there. But it's amazing. Yeah, we talked about it. There are so many people in this world really experiencing heavy heavy heavy stuff and they get up next morning and pray to God. >> Yeah. >> And hope that it'll be all better in the future. And there's examples what you hear about like women >> can't kill the me. >> You can hear about examples about like women who've had horrendous things happen to them, but they'll get up the next morning and they're motiv. >> Do you know what I mean? So there's always something that keeps the me going.
39:54 >> Yeah. But in the end, what keeps the MI going is that it simply is what seems to be happening. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. I know. I understand your point. There's nothing in the me driving it forward, but Yeah. again. That's why I can't kill it. It's not really there. >> So when you say to sitting in a room for no reason is the worst thing for the me. >> Why is that? Because there's no hope of anything. >> Well, it's the same what you said with the spotlight. >> Yeah. >> Oh, for for no real reason. It's just the energy of it. That's why it wants to awaken or dreams about some kind of fulfilled future
40:42 because literally this is I mean I think everyone can sense it >> but this is >> yeah if it becomes obvious that there's nothing to get here that it's not leading anywhere that it's of no use at all to sit in a room in Munich with Andreas there's an instant subtle feeling of a subtle uncomfortableness and that's what the person is constantly trying to escape from. Only this all religions, all philosophies, all theologies come out of this notion of what are we doing here? Why am I here?
41:30 It's literally what seems to be happening. what the person wants to escape from. Nothing more. It's never about more. I know all those fantasies and dreams about being enlightened and this is so far away and abstract already. It's already operating in such an abstract reality. In the end, it always boils down to what are we doing here now? Why am I here when there's nothing going on? What should I do with myself? It's all fine and me. What's the answer
42:18 to me? I think out of this desperation, meditation was created. this desperate need to find a place for oneself where one can be comfortable with one's own presence >> can be at home feeling at home >> that's the hope yeah >> how can I feel at home how can I yeah be fine with my own presence >> yeah that was that was that was I was looking for or in the spiritual path. >> Exactly. >> To get home, to feel being home. >> Exactly. To feel at home, to be able to
43:06 rest with one's own presence effortlessly. >> Yeah. >> Totally. >> Yeah. But what actually happens in daily life is doing doing doing doing telling oneself concepts meditating trying to bear one's presence escaping into distractions or the opposite consciously be present. You can't just be effortlessly present. There's always some kind of doing involved. And it's all only about this very
43:53 instant notion of what I'm going to do with me now. That's all. That's the whole dynamic really. Nothing big about it. sitting in a room when there is someone this can't be it. What are we here for? Why do we have these conversations? What can I gain from this? Or there's nothing
44:39 It's even like when you talk >> all those hundreds and thousands and millions of books about how to live, how to do how to find fulfillment, how to become states of consciousness and how to be this or that or to think or to not think. Thousands of years, millions of book. Well, not millions only for this. >> Yeah. Sorry, I interrupted you. >> I was just going to say when you interrupted, >> you said that when you fell into the substances, you were really impressed by how good you could feel. >> Yeah, it was amazing. Yeah. So the
45:26 question is because like that's would you say then that's a need to feel pleasure >> or to feel good anyway. >> Yeah. But yeah >> to escape the uncomfortableness of presence. >> Well >> or you wouldn't say that? >> Well in the end it just was what seemed to have happened and that it was an escape was an illusion. >> Well I was just reflecting because of my own I didn't realize until yesterday. It's the first time I'd realized my unconscious drive every morning when I woke up was how much pleasure can I feel today? I wasn't into substances. Well, I tried a few things. >> Oh, yeah. That's I mean that's what the person is doing. Collecting happy experiences. >> But I realized that's normal. >> It was all just one big distraction from the pain of just being
46:12 >> well seeking. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Of course. >> Yeah. I got to get something going. This can't be it. I'm here. This can't be it. So now I have to fill my day. I have to collect happy experiences hoping that they somehow pile up within myself and one day there'll be enough happy experiences so that I can finally become really happy. Well, that's how most people that's what the person sees. Doesn't matter in spirituality in watching soccer games, in meeting friends,
46:59 >> eating food, >> eating, in everything. Every moment, it tries to make the best out of it. And that's what the person would regard as that's norm. That's life. That's what life is about. to enjoy it as much as possible. Meaning to collect as many good experiences as possible. And in order to do so, I have to navigate through the world. I have to be conscious. I have to know what to do. And that is the spiritual seeking. It doesn't need the the spiritual world. That's how the mi lives.
47:46 until it collapses. >> It's also about I I am in charge of all of this. >> Yeah. It's my responsibility to make myself feel fulfilled. I have to do it. Even when I give up my responsibility and say God has to do it, it's still a power game. It's still me giving away my responsibility. I have to let go. >> Yeah. Yeah. I just wanted to say this. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The the act of letting go is also I let go >> is deeply controlling. >> Yeah.
48:34 >> As if wholeness would need you to let go. >> Yeah. Or it's also like I have the freedom to let it go or not let it go. >> Exactly. >> I have the choice. >> Yeah. Another power game. >> Andreas, would you say the difference between this meeting and spirituality meeting? If this meeting don't feed the me and the other feed the me. >> That would be the apparent difference. Yeah, >> none is more or less whole and complete. Everything is exactly what it is. But yeah yes
49:24 one meeting energetically your existence is confirmed and they give you a path and knowledge and hope >> and the mi continue. >> Yeah. And the mi loves that. The mi says, "Oh, great. Finally, someone tells me what to do." And here >> here the seek >> yeah there is there's just no no person responding. Of course the person still treats this as if it's a personal teaching because that's all it knows. But it leaves with empty hands or maybe some very superficial concepts but energetically it leaves with empty hands.
50:15 And that's not a better method. Some people think, "Oh, it's a better method to become fulfilled." No, it's not a method. It's not part of a path that just is no one. Andre, you said >> I also Yeah, as I said, I don't think that it's more fulfilling to not confirm than me.
51:03 you said before like obviously people can regret a decision they think they made like 20 30 40 how many years ago and still live in the narrative if only I'd made a different choice back then. >> Yeah. I would be more happy now or maybe even fulfilled. Yeah. >> Because I was just thinking for the me the idea that there was an opportunity that I wasted is painful. >> Oh absolutely. It's horrible. Even if it did happen a year, well, I can't think that far back now, but even if it did happen like a year ago or a week ago or yesterday or five minutes ago or whatever, if you think there was an opportunity to get something >> and I made the wrong choice and I could have got something, it could live in this narrative of suffering because of >> Yeah, of course. >> I missed this opportunity. >> Yeah. I could have become fulfilled or
51:49 at least closer to fulfillment if I would have done that. >> If only I'd known better. >> Yeah. If I would have married that person, I'm sure I'd be happy now. >> It's usually the other way around that people think, isn't it? If I didn't marry. >> That's true. But there's still some romantic ideas left in my brain. But yeah, you're right. Yeah. >> Who should you have married? >> It was made up. >> Oh, >> it's not too late, Andre.
52:35 But it's like you you said something recent. I can't remember where we were somewhere. And you said the me assumes there is a cause for the unfulfillment. >> Yes. >> And that's the beginning of the search. Because if I can then find out what it is that's >> well the beginning of its search is its sense of presence. And of course one could say then it's trying to find a cause for it which is just guessing. It's because my thoughts my neighbors my partner my feelings because I'm not enlightened yet because whatever but it's just guessing. >> But that's a second step already. that's actually already coming out of this process of seeking.
53:22 >> Yeah. >> This is completely a side thing, but I'm just curious because I don't know a lot about spirituality. You know, in like some traditions, I guess they say like you shouldn't eat meat. >> Yes. >> Is that because they think that all the unfulfillment is due to like not being pure enough? So if you gave that up, you might be pure for example. But probably they all have their own theory why >> why you shouldn't eat meat. >> Yeah. >> But it's all connected to that's the cause from fulfillment. >> Well, every idea of what you should do or how you should be is connected to the idea that you could be in a more fulfilling position. >> Yeah.
54:09 That's what every teaching comes about out of the idea that you are and that you are in circumstances and that circumstances can give you something or take away something from you. So some people would say but in order to be fulfilled to feel fulfilled you need a healthy body and usually no one would disagree. The only thing is that there is no one who is unfulfilled and can become fulfilled but they always connect. It's it's saying like but in order to become fulfilled you need three porches. Same idea. In order to become fulfilled, you need a
54:54 healthy body. Same dynamic, same thing. >> Yeah. >> And there are people in the world who believe both. Some people really believe that they need three ports to become happy and some people really believe that they should be shouldn't eat meat to become fulfilled. Could be anything. I'm thinking on that this is also this also goes for the meeting meetings I mean >> this it serves my fulfillment somehow >> of course yeah the person would the person would say good that I'm here so I can learn about not being someone yeah
55:46 good that I'm here so I can fall away tomorrow. Yeah. Which is instantly not not hearing what's being said. I say there is no one and the person's conclusion is good that I'm here to hear those words. Okay. Not funny here. Yes, that's what I mean. And it's inevitable. It's not wrong. That is expected to be like that
56:35 because the person is already experiencing itself as being here and wanting something. It thinks that this whole event is about that, about me and learning and getting something. Of course, what else? It's the only thing it can comprehend. It's what it's complete life is about. That's how it approaches every moment, every situation. So, of course, also this of course maybe a bit disillusioning now, but it's gorgeous.
57:21 But I'm sorry. >> Some part is definitely thinking that's so mean of you. What are you doing? That's so you laughing and you one part is automatically >> and the other part is is >> yeah the other the other part is funny because this dynamic too is what seems to be happening. It's not pointing out here to make it wrong. This is what they're teaching. But of course, the person doesn't like to be exposed. >> And as a person, that's really mean what they say, isn't it? >> Yeah. Because >> you're even nothing. >> Yeah. >> Oh, gorgeous.
58:13 >> Yes. Yeah, because the person is coming here with best intentions and all those good hopes and it really wants to become no one. doesn't doesn't want to be exposed in its futility >> and in its incapacity to understand anything. >> That's what I said yesterday that I I don't want to be useless. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The person wants to be the solution.
59:07 The solution to my seeking is when I become fulfilled. I'm the solution, the last hope. Nothing else gave me anything. So, I'm the I'm I have to be the solution. Let's just have a quick uh toilet break. 10 minutes.
