0:07 So I think the main thing is that this is not a teaching. So usually I don't I don't promise much actually nothing at all but I can promise this one thing that after this afternoon no one will be closer to fulfillment and no one will be closer to wholeness. Um because all there is is wholeness or let's say all there is is what happens what seems to be happening and this is naturally whole and complete. It's the natural reality and it's not whole and complete for a reason. It just is that for no reason. This is whole and
0:53 complete for no reason at all. Not because it's good, not because it's holy, not because it has to be whole and complete. It just is that for no reason. Nothing is missing. The only thing that lives in the impression of this is not enough or I've lost something is this one illusion. This one and only illusion which is I am. This sense of existence. This notion of presence. Something that seems to live in the body which says to itself I am. I exist. And by saying that to itself energetically, it's automatically
1:40 separate. It's an a feeling and that's instant and automatic. The moment there is something saying to itself, well, I'm me. It's automatically separate from everything else. And that's how the MI feels. It feels separate from other people. It feels separate from the situation. It actually feels separate from its own thoughts and feelings. It feels separate from its body. I'm here and I already have a body. I live in the body. And there's nothing wrong with that. But part of that experience to be separate is a sense of lack.
2:28 It's not based on any reality. It's not that something is actually missing or lacking. It's just a feeling that belongs to this sense of I am. And that also is instant and automatic. Nothing can be done about that which basically is the person's problem because the whole seeking drive comes to get rid of this sense of lack. It comes out of or the intention is to get rid of this sense of lack. That's where all the seeking comes from. But what the person can't see is that its mere presence causes this sense of unfulfillment. So it can't get rid of that. No matter what it's doing,
3:14 it's already there to feel fulfilled. So it can't get rid of the can't get rid of this unfulfillment. They just go together. So what we talk about here is that the sense of presence doesn't have any substance. Very simplified, one could say it's an illusion. That's why nothing helps. On the one hand, nothing helps because the person is that sense of lack. On the other hand, nothing helps because it's an illusion. One can't help an illusion. So this feeling that something is missing is illusurary. Nothing is missing.
4:00 There is no one here who needs to understand anything who needs to achieve a certain state of peace of freedom of liberation or a state of know me. It's a dream. So no one here lacks anything. It's this what happens what seems to be happening is naturally whole and complete. But as there is no one separate, there is also no one who will wake up to this reality. This longing, this hope would again be part of the dream. When can I see that?
4:47 When will I become aware of this being wholly and complete? When will I feel whole and complete? When will this become my personal conscious experience? And again, that's looking for something that doesn't exist. on the one hand because this experience to be a conscious something is illusurary in the first place. So you just can't have an experience of conscious wholeness or something. On the other hand, as I said, because this sense of lack automatically belongs
5:32 to this sense of I am. So that's the good news basically. Well, I don't know if it's news in that sense, but this is whole and complete. It's all there is and there's absolutely nothing missing. By being whole and complete already, it will remain unrealized. There isn't wholeness and someone
6:17 realizing it. And the great freedom is that that's not needed. It hasn't been needed all of our lives. life just happened so far without any kind of realization and it was kind of okay and apparently it'll just go on like that. There'll just be apparently life happening without anyone realizing anything. That's the freedom.
7:06 And you said that me feel separate from his thought and feeling. What about pain? If I feel if I am separate from from my pain. >> Yeah. >> I I must not suffer from my pain. >> Well, I would say actually you suffer from pain because you feel separate from it because there's a pain and you and it feels as if you have that pain and so that opens up the possibility to suffer from it. Why do I have to have this pain? How? What to do with that? I can't stand the
7:53 pain. So, you need someone who separate from that to suffer from it. I mean, the person suffers from its feelings. Some people suffer from their thoughts, from situations. So that's that is the illusion of suffering to suffer from and trying to find an answer to it. How do I deal with the pain? How do I deal with feelings with thoughts with life? So this is only possible when there is a separate something.
8:39 So, so when there's no separation >> and there's pain >> then there's no problem. >> Yes, it's just painful. But yeah, but no one has the problem to find an answer to it. And in a very strange way, it turns out that this is the only suffering It's not really what happens. Pain isn't really suffering in that sense. The only inner struggle, the only suffering would be how do I find a solution to that?
9:26 What can I do? In the end, it's always the same dynamic. The question is, what can I do to feel whole and complete even when there's pain? The person would say, well, it's easy when I feel good and when it's healthy. But how can I feel whole and complete when there's pain? And that causes the struggle because it's impossible to feel whole and complete anyway. But when there's pain, it seems to be much more difficult. So the struggle is much more is stronger. >> First step dealing with pain.
10:12 I don't >> Yeah, sorry. I was saying too much. Yeah, >> stay by the pain. >> Yeah, sorry. I thought we talk it all through, but yeah. Now there's pain. >> Okay. >> So this pain problem for the me just for the me. >> Yeah. Kind of. Yeah. Well, the Mi has the impression that I have to act on it in the end to make myself feel whole and complete.
10:58 The Mi isn't really interested about pain or no pain. That's the business of the body, so to speak. The body cares apparently, but the mi only wants to get rid of the pain in order to come back to now it's good again for me. >> So the the body is resisting the pain in this uh >> well maybe at least the body is feeling it and usually the body acts out of that all by itself. but not in order to feel good again like the person would want to do.
11:48 It's like a completely additional dynamic the personal energy. In the end, the person isn't interested in anything else than coming to this than finding a way to come to this inner experience of rest. It's not interested in solving any other problem. If it has to solve another problem to do that okay
12:36 but actually all it's looking for is to find this. Ah, great. Now I can say yes again to life or to what happens. >> I know when this problem is solved, there is another problem for the me. >> Well, anyway, because the mi is that feeling of I'm incomplete. That's why problem solving never does do anything in that sense. The mi will just go on be a me and feel unfulfilled. That's what it does anyway. No matter what happens,
13:22 that's how it feels and what it does. Andrea, like before you died, before you've said this before, before you died, you had no idea you were going to end up speaking about this. >> That's true. And then as soon as you >> Well, I didn't have an idea that I I will die. >> Yeah. >> But then as soon as you die, the meetings began. >> Yeah. Quite Well, I had to rewrite my story a bit. But yeah. >> Okay. But what I was going to say was
14:10 like a large part of the fear for me is not having control of knowing what will happen if I'm not there. >> Mhm. because it could just go anyway apparently. >> Yeah. >> Things can carry on as they are or like in your case something completely not anticipated. >> Yes. >> I guess I think maybe that's part of the fear is just wanting control of knowing what's it going to be like. >> Yeah. Anyway. >> Yeah. >> Well, that's Yeah. Well, the me's whole question is will I be safe? Well, yeah, it's actually a bit more than that. I mean, for the person, the future is very important because that's
14:55 the time when it will be fulfilled in its dreams. >> Yeah. >> And death is the end of that possibility. Well, there never was the possibility to be fulfilled. >> Yeah. But so it wants to know how the future will look like. So it can ask itself, will I still be able to be happy if that and that happens? >> Yeah. Can I still be fulfilled if I would live on the street? No. So I have to make sure to not live on the street in the future. Yeah. But it doesn't matter anymore. But even if you just look at your life back, I mean I I would never have
15:42 thought I've been born in Hungary. I never have thought that I will be living in three other countries speaking German, English and uh other a little bit. So you never know. >> But the problem is the MI cares a lot. They want to have really just just to be sure that I'm not going to die. This is the thing. If you just let everything get out from your hand without control and just see for one day, don't plan anything just for one day. Then you will see it just happening by itself. >> Don't do what the thought says like I would like to drink now a coffee. No,
16:29 just wait until the body is goes and drinks a coffee. >> Yes. And then you realize wow I am not doing anything it's just happening >> anyway I mean it's like that anyway already all the time I mean yeah >> to his thing about pain >> when she said everything's happening and because I was thinking pain is this thing that we want to get rid of let's say the street really hurts himself really badly, then I'd probably go there and try to help him relieve his pain maybe. Or there's um say painkillers and we say that's all happens without a me.
17:16 That's that is >> Oh yeah, >> we avoid pain and that's just part of >> Well, that's just kind of quite natural actually. Well, we don't really avoid it. But >> yeah, >> we do something against it. I mean, pain is >> exact. But that's what I mean. It's not really avoiding it beforehand, but when it happens, there is a reaction to it. The body just reacts naturally, but not in order to feel fulfilled. >> But you're not saying >> no, >> pain is um you can Well, you're not saying pain is good or or there's no need to not do it. What you're saying is >> well nothing is good or bad but no I
18:01 don't say that you should accept pain and bear it. No well pain is whole and complete of course. Yeah and the reaction to it as well. It's just a a very I mean the whole life is a very natural flow in that sense. Yeah. There's just no real answer to this one question that the person is asking. How can there be pain and a happy me?
18:46 How can there be pain and me in a fulfilled way? And there's just no answer to this question of what should I do? How should I deal with pain? There's just no question to them. >> And the tendency >> no answer. Sorry. >> The tendency would probably be that there isn't pain and oh god it's all terrible because I have sometimes someone can have a small pain and go oh my god so horrible. Oh god. That probably won't probably won't happen because there won't be there won't be a feeling I can't be a happy meme if there's pain. >> Yeah. >> No one's sick. >> No.
19:32 >> Well, there there won't be victimhood in a sense. >> Say again. >> There won't be victimhood. I'm a victim of >> Oh, no. Exactly. The victim dies. >> Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. The doer and the victim. They are the same actually. Or the creator and Yeah. Yeah. No one's a victim here. Yeah. >> But if you accept pain even though me is trying to accept it then it will be less. If you don't go against then it will accept it. It just let it go and then >> yeah but more or less pain isn't really the point. It doesn't matter really. And
20:17 of course, >> it will end sooner if you just let it go. >> I'm not sure. >> I know because I did it. >> Yeah. Maybe it can seem like that because you're focusing on accepting it. So, >> and even if you are looking at the pain, the pain is um if you really look at the bottom is love. >> Well, it's all love. >> Yeah. >> So, So that's why if it's it's getting everything off the pain, you just feel it like um onion, then on the bottom is love. >> Everything is just >> unconditional love. >> Yeah. But that's to me it sounds like that there is some doing in that or
21:03 >> no why you just leave it. I mean if you are there and there's this whole relaxed situation and okay I have terrible headache. I don't take a pill. So let's see what happens. Why is the pain? Where is it coming from? And I realize >> Yeah, but that's what I mean. It's a part. >> Yeah, but I'm not doing anything. Basically, it's just letting in bracket. You need to somehow speak. So I need to say I'm letting it. And um >> because for me the painkillers work very well. >> Mhm. >> Almost instant. >> Yeah. It's it just of course it's different >> for >> but it's very interesting really.
21:48 >> Mhm. >> If you just try it maybe once. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I was playing around with with with that a bit when I was on the spiritual path and stuff. Yeah. >> Of course. Yeah, it doesn't matter. It's it's just life just happening. >> Exactly. >> Even if you're drinking cola, eating ice, eating McDonald's, eating healthy stuff, it's all the same. >> Yeah. You say all those things as if they were bad. I'm doing all those things. >> I'm not saying it's bad. I never >> It sounded like even scientist is bad.
22:38 Not me. Yeah, I want to do all those things today actually. Well, no coke. That wasn't part of the plan. Anyway, would you say that addiction is the same as pain? Like only me would want to get rid of it. So if the me does that necessarily doesn't mean that addiction stop. >> Exactly. When the me drops there can still be addiction. Yeah. Me would only live in this inner conflict saying oh if I wouldn't have the addiction I would be
23:24 closer to fulfillment. So it would create this additional inner conflict. So if you are for example smoker there wouldn't be a total smoking is bad for me I have to stop and that struggle that >> well I every day I have those thoughts but there's no one in conflict so having those thoughts are there's no they they just are what happens that's the thing but there is no one who feels separate from that having the idea I could make
24:09 it happen who is believing the thoughts who is in a conflict with itself everything just is itself in that sense even apparent conflict there's just no one in I sometimes think that even while I'm smoking, not before or after. So I shouldn't do that. Shouldn't do that. [Music] Great fun. Just life happening.
24:58 God. So the person would regard this as a contradiction because it would feel like in between and it would as if those things are separate and I have to find an answer to that or make it logical or stuff. It's just undivided.
25:49 >> It's really nice to hear that. Yeah thanks. It's nice if my com my conflicts are comforting you >> at your service. [Laughter] The same happened with me. >> Yeah. >> I shouldn't do that. >> Yeah. Yeah.
27:24 So basically I don't know if you can answer me because you're telling me there is no way there is no nothing we can be done but um I just recently felt so this emptiness It was really great and and then it just I don't know it came back everything again. >> So I can't even >> Well, I would say that you are illusurary. This eye which was feeling the emptiness for a while. This eye is an illusion.
28:12 So even when feeling emptiness, so you somehow stayed separate from it. >> But how do I know then that I am there? Basically, if I cannot feel, if I cannot see, if I cannot touch, how do you know? >> Where where would you want to be? Yeah, like there where you are basically. >> I know that you are telling us I know I understand. >> No, the thing is the thing is that I'm not there and I'm not anywhere. >> Yeah. But let's say okay you are enlightened and I am not because I still I am feeling as a person. So basically then if I say I feel the emptiness and
29:00 you say no you cannot feel it. I cannot feel. I cannot touch. I cannot see. Then how do I know if I am there or not? >> Never. Never. Because there is no place to be. There is no one who is enlightened. So this whole idea that you can be in a place >> you you understand me wrong. I cannot >> I think I do understand quite correctly >> because I am not speaking about the personal view. I'm speaking about the I cannot talk with words because the words are non as a dual. So basically what I wanted to tell you is you are experiencing the world
29:47 differently like us now. >> True. >> No. >> Yes. It's true. >> Really I'm I mean it. I'm not playing with words here. That is >> I'm not seeing the reality that you are seeing. >> Yeah. The thing just is I don't see more reality than you do. You just assume yourself to be someone and assume that there is a reality to be seen. So you live in the dream that you see a reality and that you could come to see an enlightened reality.
30:32 >> No, this is an illusion. >> No, I am is an illusion. This is not an illusion. This is the natural reality. And no one here knows what this is, including me. You don't know it. I don't know it what this is. So we are same here. >> No, but the problem is I know what this is. >> That's what I mean. >> Yeah. >> So, >> and you might think that I know better because I'm enlightened, but I have not the slightest additional knowledge about what this is than you. I know as little as you do.
31:17 I don't see more reality than you do. I don't see more truth than you do. I don't have a greater objective perspective than you do. >> There's just no one there >> knowing >> I understand there is no one there, but here is someone there at the moment because that's true. This is the Maya. No, this is what I'm trying to say. So and and there in this case in my case there is some stillness. Yeah. And >> you tell me you cannot feel stillness. Someone is feeling the stillness. But basically you there where is no maya there is then basically an an emptiness
32:06 and and empty and full at the same time. >> Yes. But not for anyone >> of course. But you still somehow sense it. It's a very fine sensation. But how how how do you know then? >> I don't know really. I mean it. There is not the slightest thing there aware of how it is. Not even of real and unreal. There's nothing. And it's not nothing for someone. There just is nothing and everything.
32:51 >> Well, if there's only nothing, nothing is everything. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. It's really No. >> No. That's the thing. How would this experience of emptiness would have been without you? Seen from the person, it's a story. But seen from the person is how is your life in deep sleep?
33:37 How does it feel? How is it? What can you tell me about how it is? >> I cannot tell you because I'm in deep sleep. >> No, you are not in deep sleep because you are not there. >> That's what we talk. Exactly. The you isn't there. Anything else that can be said about how it is comes from an illusion >> or are just stories that can't be known by anyone. So that's it. Everything else you can sense and feel and be aware of is already dreamt.
34:25 That's what I mean and that's what we talk about here. But we can talk about that even while we are awake. We don't have the body doesn't have to be in deep sleep for this. But that's the nothing and everything that we talk about here. And I literally mean it like that. I'm not in another position. >> I know, >> but I don't know. >> Yes. Exactly. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. >> That's all right. >> I just >> I just wanted to be clear on my side. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, because I just really
35:12 the sensation when I was coming here that I am not from this world. I am not here. M >> so and then seeing people are coming the tree the street the thing and like so strange but still I'm >> I'm still here I mean >> person but still the sensation the feeling is so strong >> yes >> that's why you know I'm asking this because they there Must be something. >> Yes. The person can't go beyond this feeling because it is that feeling.
35:59 There is something. The person can't go beyond this sensation because it is that. It can have a neutral concept. It can't, it doesn't even have to tell a story and it can feel very neutral and impersonal, but it'll still be left with this impression of Yeah. But there is something. >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And liberation would be life without that. Just this not being there. Yeah, maybe when I go out then.
36:46 >> Yeah, maybe. >> Who knows? >> Yeah, maybe today you die. Yeah, possible. I hope you don't have plans for tonight or tomorrow. So, because that's usually why the me wants to stay around. Oh, yeah. But tomorrow I still wanted to do >> good.
37:43 yesterday after uh I was kind of exposed. I felt so sad >> that I mean that after like the decision that I I came by like a conscious decision this time. I don't know it just felt so sad that I know myself doing this in in other fields like like uh yeah I know that this will be good for me. >> Yeah. And then but I didn't do this with with this with the meetings before and I was like okay now I'm lying already here also here like >> no >> like pretending and also that you you
38:31 said that like making up a path like a >> turning commitment turning into a path. Yeah. Yeah. It just felt wrong instantly. So >> but it's so so interesting that you are all saying in nonduality and extremely there is no path but basically there is because even though if you are coming to your meetings there is also a path we are coming to here at some point ah okay no and it happens so somehow there is a
39:17 path and I mean you've been also to some uh spiritual things before you did something like everyone I think of us. Why do you say then so oh no there is no path no path no path but because I understand that after there is no nothing happening etc but still in this it's basically it's a path >> well well there is no path because it turns out that being on the path is just a feeling it's a feeling that belongs to this illusion to be someone and for the person everything feels like a path or a process but it's an attached illusion.
40:05 It's this feeling of I'm on a path and this path will end hopefully with a success with one experience where I have arrived and that's just not the case. It's a dream. >> Yeah. But in a dream we can say there is a path. >> Yeah. The person will go on saying that. But the the thing is that it's never happening. >> Of course, but the person has nothing happen. Never happens. Exactly. >> Talk nothing. >> Next moment is nothing happening. >> That's that's what I mean. It's a feeling that happens in the person. The person has the impression, oh, I'm on a path.
40:52 >> Yeah. But that's why we are sitting here. >> No, that's the dream. >> Yeah, exactly. >> That you are sitting here >> because you are on a path because sitting here will not lead anywhere. [Laughter] That's the dream. this feeling of I'm here >> and I'm here to gain something. >> No, actually I'm just here to listening to you, but I don't want to gain anything. >> Yeah. Not even some kind of entertainment. >> Okay. Well, maybe entertainment.
41:38 >> But this is not what you meant that I want to be now enlightened and etc etc. Because >> no, you are a bit more humble. You are just here for entertainment. Yeah, that's >> Yeah, >> exactly. >> Yeah. Well, over the years the goals get smaller. I understand. >> Yeah, because yesterday evening I just called someone is here. Someone is here. Oh, yeah. Let's see. Ah, this is Andrea. So, that's why I'm here. >> Yeah, but you can't say really that you're here for no reason at all. Not that it matters. I was curious. >> That's all right. It's all fine. But >> yeah, that's true. There is always
42:23 something dying. >> There's always something behind in the person which is somehow part of the illusion of its path. >> Correct. >> Yeah. And of course, this path is always connected to some kind of goal. And it'll never be like that. Mostly [Laughter] >> I'd stick to never, but you can you can
43:08 go for mostly. If you want to leave some hope, that's fine.
44:04 Andreas, maybe this is just me digging out of hope, But obviously once you've listened to this a number of times, you've kind of heard the concepts. There's only so many questions you can ask again and again and again. But there's something else. Maybe this is the hope. There's something else here like the energy that's always new and alive. Would you say? Well, whatever this is that we can't talk about. Obviously, it's the person has no idea what it is. It's not in the person's perception. >> This being nothing. >> Yes. >> So, but and and that's not even ever said in the words either. You can say there's no one and nothing's happening
44:50 and this is nothing and blah blah blah blah blah, but that never actually says what it is. >> Yes. >> But at the same time, there can be a sense of resonance with that. Well, not the person, but like sitting in a meeting. Well, it doesn't have to be in a meeting, but there can be a resonance with this all being nothing and empty and there being no one. >> Yeah. Well, only apparently. >> What do you mean only apparently? >> Well, that there is no real resonance with anything. It would just be the appearance of it. >> Okay.
45:46 I'm still looking for rules and conditions like what would create a resonance, what creates openness, but it's just an appearance of what's happening, isn't it? Mhm. Exactly. Yeah. >> And it can't the openness if there is an openness, it can't be used either. >> No, it would also just be what happens. >> The me thinks, oh great, I was a bit more open today. Or not today, I'm not. But like hypothetically, the me think I'm a bit more open today. This will be great. I can gain more now. >> Yeah. And it would just live in the dream. I'm more open. What would that mean? I mean that's that's a total dream that someone can be more or less open to holiness. >> Well, a person can't be but there's times when there's the mi is more or
46:33 less active and when the mi is more active. >> Yeah. But both is what happens. >> Yeah. >> So both is what we talk about. So that's what I mean. It's already within a story. I mean resisting this is as much holding complete as not resisting it that much. >> I'm not agreeing. I'm just nodding. Now I know who would who would be there to agree
47:30 just to go back. So there are conflicting thoughts and there is nobody that is in contact with with anything. Yeah. >> Yes. There is no conflict really. >> That's the ungraspable part. >> Yes. Well, it's ungraspable because the me only consists of being in a conflict. >> So, it can't go there. It has no idea what it means that there already isn't a conflict. The mei thinks there is a conflict and one day that conflict might be gone when I found a solution to it. But already
48:16 it's in a conflict again. >> It can know there is a conflict or there is not conflict. It cannot know that there's no no someone that is >> exactly that it's already perfect harmony. >> Yes. Can't can't go there. >> It can be one or the other. It cannot be just >> so to speak and one or the other for me >> as a conscious experience. >> Yeah. Yes. I'm going back to this topic what I mentioned. Uh it's also about that u um
49:05 I experience that usually the meetings gives me something good >> yeah as as we were talking about it. Yeah. >> And then it's also but it's also a belief that it it will always like this but it's actually it's not true. I mean >> sometimes it's bad sometimes it's boring. So it's like >> Yes. >> It's not always giving me something good or Yeah. >> No. >> Yeah. I think that's quite nice about these meetings that there isn't a predictable result
49:50 while in a lot of personal teachings they work on >> a predictable result. Yeah, but it seems >> often it seems to work even >> and it seems also that I have the hope that it will be always like this with the meetings as well. >> No, that'll just be what seems to be happening. And this is unpredictable. Trace, you know, sometimes like you can sense the energy of the atmosphere in the room in the meeting. Well, there sometimes like after a meeting when I'll say to you, I found that really intense. And you'll say, I think it was intense.
50:35 And I'll say, what do you mean you say, well, you think everyone it was quite intense for everyone? >> Mhm. >> What's your impression today? [Laughter] >> I don't have one yet. >> Okay. >> Well, I'll tell you how I feel. So, >> this is intense. >> No. >> No. All right. >> It was a minute. Well, about half an hour ago, whatever. It feels like I've spent all of yesterday banging my head against a brick wall, thinking I'm going to get through this wall if I just hit my head hard against it. And now today, I'm just sitting there in pain and thinking, why did I do that? >> Mhm. >> So, kind of worn out would be the how I feel. >> Mhm. >> Seeking is draining. >> Yeah. Yes. It's exhausting and drain.
51:23 Yeah. But then the next day the Mi gets the energy back or half an hour later the Mi feels good again and suddenly feels hope again. >> Yeah. >> Oh great. I just had a good feeling there. I thought of a nice idea. Oh, life's going to work out. Let's get back on the old >> and it gets >> Yeah. >> back on. >> It's like it's got a full tank of petrol. >> Exactly. >> Let's put the foot back down on the accelerator and really go for it. >> Yeah. Had a little rest and then >> back to work. >> Yeah. Yep. And then it crashes again. And >> yeah, that's what most people would call being alive. >> Yeah. >> Exactly. And the best feeling, we talked about
52:09 it. The best feeling the me can have is back on track. >> Yeah. >> Life works out. All good. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Mhm. >> It's just a series of highs and crashes and highs and crashes. And for different people, they're different levels of intensity. >> Yeah. >> And different levels of frequency. >> Yeah. Artificial highs and artificial crashes. >> The crashes do not feel artificial. >> Well, the highs also don't feel artificial to the main. >> Yeah. >> That's It feels real. I'm on a good path. Everything works out well. >> Yeah. People are nice to me. That's important in my story. Maybe not when you want me, but >> which is basically I will become
52:54 enlightened soon or I'll never be enlightened. >> But the thing is >> the highs and the lows >> like you said like the high does feel real to the me. So when the me's on a high it feels real but when it crashes it I recognize that it was just me building that up. It was never a high there. Do you know what I mean? >> As you said the crash artificial I feel like I've really crashed over and over and over again. >> Yeah. But I mean often is when you feel high, you also can't really understand why you ever crashed. So >> yeah, that's true. >> And you think I'm not crashed this time. >> Same. Same. Exactly. >> Just the same dynamic in good and bad. >> This time it's just going to keep going up. >> Exactly. Yeah. This time it'll last. Yeah. >> No crashing for me anymore. Bang.
53:40 >> Yeah. Yes. >> With me it's worse. I always think it's bound to crash. I know it's going to crash. >> Yeah, you're worse. Yeah, >> you are in an extra bad position. >> But you have also crashes. But not you. Not you. But like I mean you are also suffering if you are hitting your feet or you have an auto crash or something. >> Oh yeah. But there's no one inside crashing on you. >> It's just a difference that we are with the me and you are without me. But you have the same if you someone is stealing your money then you are also without
54:26 money. You are just not thinking about it what I'm going to eat and ah life sorted out for me. So something like this >> very simplified. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean this is how we understand you know not like >> Yeah. There's just not this inner roller coaster of M >> I'll be I'll be fulfilled and I'll never be fulfilled. >> Yeah. Because a lot of people are thinking if I'm enlightenment, oh nothing going to happen. I'm all that I'm happy. >> Absolutely. They they think I will be there be enlightened and all the rest that keeps me from that will be gone. Like thoughts, feelings basically. >> You have still the bad thoughts. Why should why did I do that? I shouldn't do
55:12 that. >> Yeah. It's not you. Of course, it is just happening. >> Thoughts are happening. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's the thing. I mean, in spirituality, some people even want to make the whole world go away by saying it's an illusion. They would say, "I'm all there is." And this whole world is an illusion >> because they they suffer and hate this world so much that they want it to be gone. But in the end, it's the other way around. The Mi is a dream and this world is the natural reality. There's nothing beyond that. >> You are the world too. >> Yeah, I know. No, >> no. But it's true. >> Yeah. That's what seems to be happening.
55:58 Yes. And this includes this. >> Yes. Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. There'll never be anything else than what seems to be happening. And right now this is us sitting in this room having the thoughts and the feelings that we seem to have. There isn't anything beyond that. It's this. >> Yeah.
56:44 >> Yeah. It's just behind you is the curtain. Behind the curtain is nothing. >> No. >> No wall. No, >> the curtain is nothing. >> Yes, of course. But look, I just can only talk like this. Okay. So, I cannot talk like you. >> Yeah, but same here. I can also only talk like this >> because you are only telling me is nothing, nothing, nothing. Yes, I know there is nothing. But still, there is nothing behind the curtain. Even no world, no Germany, no Hungary, no Italy, no nothing. >> Well, I think that behind the curtain is the appearance of Munich. I'm quite sure. >> Quite sure. >> I'm quite sure. I'm not 100% sure, but I'm quite sure. >> See, this is also a person.
57:29 >> Should we have a Should we have a look? >> How do you know? >> Well, I don't know. >> It's just a curtain. >> No, I don't know that either. So, the curtain is nothing. This is nothing. >> So, behind is also nothing. >> Exactly. >> Oh, then agree. No, because you made a you made a distinction between before the curtain and behind the curtain. >> Yeah, behind the curtain is also nothing. >> Yes. >> So there is no Munich. Yes. >> Oh yes. But there's no sitting in a room. >> Of course. >> Yeah. >> Then it's good. >> But I'm quite sure that there's the appearance of a room and there's the appearance of Munich behind the curtain. >> Might be >> and all of that. I'm pretty we could have a look later.
58:18 is building up only on the time. So basically just only the the the brain knows there is Munich. This is just a knowledge but we are not sure >> and that's what seems to be happening. The knowledge of there being Munich is wholeness appearing as that knowledge. So, >> so >> there is no sureess. >> Well, there is no there's no certainty in an appearance. It's only apparent certainty. >> So, basically, it's just only this what we see. >> No, >> at the moment. Yes. >> Oh, no. >> What? >> Oh, because there is no
59:04 >> You just said this is Yes. What we see? >> Yeah. But I said this is nothing also. >> Yes. >> Yeah, >> it's nothing. But still, this is the appearance just at the moment now. The illusion. >> No, that's not how I meant it. >> Okay, >> that's how you may mean it, but that's not how I meant it. >> Okay, it's getting just confusing. Yeah, >> I've just thought of something and you know, tell me if you think I'm wrong here, but obviously different symptoms of the MI. There's different degrees of them for different MI. So, if I'm I'm thinking specifically about guilt, some Miis feel a huge amount of guilt and
59:49 some Mi don't feel very much guilt. It's all connected to the level of self-importance, isn't it? Like, let's just say I feel a like something happens and I feel a tremendous amount of guilt. That's connected to I feel I'm extremely important. Whereas in me who feels less guilt, they probably don't have such a huge feeling of importance. Would you agree or disagree? >> Neither. I'm not. No, I don't care. >> Because I think one of the biggest things I apparently suffered from in my life was guilt. The smallest thing could happen. I might not have even been involved all there at the time. And I
1:00:35 think, "Oh my god, it's my fault. If I was different, that bad thing wouldn't have happened. So, I'm so awful. I hate blah blah blah blah blah." >> And I'm just thinking now in reflection, that's because the level of self-importance was so huge. >> Yeah. that I'm affecting everything and I'm responsible for every problem and if someone died in another country it's because I'm evil. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> But you often hear as well, this isn't connected to me, but like for example, if two parents get divorced, the child thinks it's my fault if I was better, they would be happy together. Yeah. >> That's so common. That's already a level of self-importance then, isn't it? >> That's the question. I don't know. Maybe it's just function. This is disperation.
1:01:20 >> What do you mean by functioning? >> It's just >> But a child never caused their parents to get divorced in that example. >> I know, but maybe it's just what seems to be happening that that's how it's perceived by the mean or just >> No, it would have to be seeking surely >> to come up with an answer to a problem. Would you not say? >> I'd say it's rather energetic. What do you mean by energetic to do with if there's a me or not? >> Well, I didn't understand as a child that I felt guilty. I understood this 20 or 30 years later. So, I don't there was no conscious idea in >> but there's no guilt there now. Oh, yeah. The feeling of guilt is energetic, >> right? Yeah. It doesn't need a It
1:02:06 doesn't need a mental narrative. >> Just disappeared. >> Well, I can hear it. Disabarly music. >> Okay, I can hear it. >> Understand what you mean. The feeling of guilt is energetic rather than needing a mental narrative. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> The feeling of guilt just wouldn't arise there now though, would it? >> No. No. There wouldn't be the the story the impression of someone being guilty or responsible. Yeah. Guilt is not a feeling actually. I think >> how would you describe it? >> Well, guilt is a feeling plus me being
1:02:54 responsible for it. >> It's all to do with ownership as well. >> Yeah, exactly. So, if this would cause some suffering, I would I would still maybe feel sad or something. there just wouldn't be this energy of it's my fault, but there might still be a feeling there >> which the person would regard as oh I caused this and this shouldn't be and it's because of me. So to me guilt is not a feeling really. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:03:42 Andreas, you you said that uh we were talking about that life. Usually people think that life is like this involvement. Yeah. Being involved or doing >> seeking doing Yeah. Yeah. And I also I also feel like this. I mean I also think that or I see that life is this involvement. >> Life is >> involvement like doing like >> yeah doing >> being involved >> being observing being there >> that's what the person regards as life when I'm there. And then if I'm not and I'm not then I if I don't do then then
1:04:29 what is life? >> If I'm Yeah. >> Well, you could still regard it as some kind of observing. But yeah, it's a horrible idea. What would life be without me being there? Nothing. >> Or Yeah. Without being there or without doing >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's a very unattractive idea. >> So, Is life without doing?
1:05:15 >> H. >> So what is life without doing? >> Well, I have no idea because this life is illusory. And we could say, what is life without there being someone uh free? But with with being there is also free. >> Yeah. Just in both cases, not for anyone.
1:06:13 I'm not calling these meetings special when I say this, but they are bizarre in a way. Do you know what I mean? It's just out of the [ __ ] normal world of the me. I know I'm stating the obvious, but it's like these meetings are completely bizarre. >> I'd go for that kind of >> logic just I know I've said it before, logic just doesn't apply here at all. >> Yeah. Yes. >> In the normal world, you might well what I call the normal world. >> Exactly. It doesn't actually apply there either. >> You might say there's no logic there either, but this is really really wild and free here. >> And you might say that there as well. >> Yeah. But I think the normal world makes sense. >> Yeah. But that's an illusion.
1:07:03 >> Is it because the Mi makes it fit into its rules? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> So the Mi goes around with a list of rules. Oh, cause and effect is like this blah blah blah blah blah blah. And then it looks at what it sees and fits it into its narrative. Or if it can't explain something, it kind of makes some way of fitting it all in. Whereas I can't fit this into my logic whatsoever. >> Mhm. >> But this can apply also here as well. I mean easily can I can make up a sense >> very easily. Yeah. Yeah. Very easily.
1:07:50 >> You don't even have to make up one. You can also even just assume that it's there. >> Yeah. >> Oh, there'll be some sense. All right. It'll be good for something. And the thing is though, even though right now for me it feels completely pointless to be here, I don't feel like, oh, it's pointless. I shouldn't be here. I should be somewhere else. I don't think I shouldn't be here. But do you know what I mean? It's just what what is the point of sitting in a room? There's nothing happening at all. >> Yeah.
1:08:36 >> Yeah. There is no point. That's Yeah. >> What am I going to hope for? A bit more destruction of the me or what? Like so the sense the person makes of what it what I call the normal world. Is the sense always connected to what it gives me. It's here for this reason because it
1:09:22 leads to blah blah blah. >> Well, no, it's just a method already. As I said, it doesn't even need to invent a sense or meaning. It just has to assume that it's there. I'm here for a reason. It'll be good for something. just to make itself feel more whole and complete in this very moment. It's seeking already. I'm here. I'm self-aware. Why am I here? It'll make some It'll be good for something. Okay. So, I can rest again for 30 seconds or 2 minutes.
1:10:10 The whole seeking dynamic in 10 seconds. Huh? Why am I here? I have no idea. Ah, it'll be good for something. Okay, that's what the meat does. It's there. It asks a question. It gives itself an answer to comfort. It has in this whole thing. It hasn't hasn't left itself at all. It was just circling around within itself. That's what it's doing all the time. All the time. >> But it's also not possible to escape. >> No. Oh, no. Who would escape it? No. It's just what seems to be happening. If that's what seems to be happening
1:10:57 until it collapses, until this dynamic isn't there anymore, no one finds anything. No one realizes anything. No one comes to the end of the process. No one comes out of this dynamic and looks back and re and sees this dynamic. Oh, I'm happy how out I am now. No, either that's there or not. And there is no becoming aware of in between, no knowing of anything, not seeing through that either it's there or not. both for no one.
1:11:43 The dream already is that this dynamic belongs to someone or is caused by me or something. No, >> probably is a stupid question, but why is it not possible to escape this? >> Oh, because there is no one in it. This dynamic is another impersonal appearance. It's just part of this dynamic that something calls itself me. But there is no one. >> But but I I made it I I make it as my
1:12:30 dynamics. >> Exactly. So in that idea there's already you and your dynamic or if some people say non-duality me and my me my me is doing that my me how many me are there now wait a moment >> yes >> but not who But tell that there was a dynamic and there was a separation and now there is no dynamic. No separation. >> Well, that's a good thing. There never was a dynamic and there never was separation. >> But what till that?
1:13:15 >> Oh, >> not who? What? >> Same question basically. Oh, no one. No. So again there is no one separate knowing that but why Tony person say what you are not who you are what you are from his book what you are not what you want >> so I'm a bit mean now I think you have to Ask Tony.
1:14:01 >> Can't speak for him. [Laughter] Because there there also isn't anything which we are. Andress, this might be another hope, but I'm just thinking I'm glad I got to you while you're still giving talks >> because imagine like if I found you and Jim and Tony on YouTube after you all stopped talking, >> I'd think it'd be awful because then I wouldn't be able to go along. >> It would save me an absolute [ __ ] ton of money, but what good is the money if I'm still suffering? Do you know what I
1:14:46 mean? >> What I'm basically saying is I'm so grateful to come to these meetings. Yeah cool. All right, let's have a break.
