0:09 what what we're talking about what the meeting is about is something so simple it's more obvious than the experience of being an individual it's it's more real than the experience of being an individual so the appearance meaning everything is at the same time no thing it's that which can't be named being everything that's what this is whatever is happening that's
0:57 it and in that way separation is just an appearance it has no reality behind it as that undivided appearance it's completely fully what it is like it couldn't be more of what it is than it is its whole fullness this and in that way it's needlessly what it is being wholly and completely as it is
1:43 what it is it's not looking to become anything it's completely complete as it appears now there's a an experience of separation which part of that experience is what I just said isn't true and it will hear what I said as something that needs to be or could become something that that separate sense could learn or know or experience or have and in that way it'll misunderstand make it into make what
2:30 we're talking about into a thing nonduality or nothing or fullness becomes a thing for that separate sense to know or to realize and it's in that way that that separate sense feels like all that has value is what it knows realizes experiences misses misses what's already completely obvious more obvious than the experience of Separation so in that way what we're talking about today is truly empty I mean everything
3:15 already is empty but what the meeting is about is even to say that is kind of misleading because it's not really about anything and that's not word salad it's it's that the the need that the individual feels that what is is somehow incomplete is auser and so what's being shared here is that that's just not true in that way nothing needs to happen now that's not something to practice or something to know or something to
4:04 become because it already is that way everything that's going to be shared today is is is just about what is already it is already what's longed for so in that in that way what appears isn't good or bad or right or wrong wrong not in that way because it's already that fullness that completeness nothing's excluded there is no right or wrong way for this to appear everything is included everything is that
4:51 fullness that unspeakable that's what's happening so there in that in that way there's no value in what we're talking about it's not about a goal or a path it's simply it's not about you the the SE the the you the separate the separate sense of being an individual it's not about that we'll talk about that because it'll come up and say I don't feel it I don't know it how does it relate to me it doesn't so in in one way for the individual this is a pretty
5:39 frustrating maybe even disorienting message because it doesn't relate to this need of the individual to become the conviction that it has that this is incomplete and fulfillment is an experience that it will have or that I will have at some point in the future it hears everything through that filter and this message what we're talking about doesn't relate to that at all it merely merely points out that what is already is whole and complete and the demand of the individual arises out of an illusory experience that the appearance or that the individual is
6:25 real now that doesn't mean that the appearance isn't real it's just is not real in the way that the individual sees it it doesn't have that need or solidity or demand I mean obviously it apparently has it but only in that illusory experience of the individual and in that way that illusory experience of the individual is not a demand it's also the fullness and completeness and wholeness that is also everything else so that's the introduction if anybody would like to talk about it not that there's anything
7:11 to say hey David great thank you did I get you can you hear me yeah here we are good you finally got you you uh got lots to say um yeah the great introduction thank you um just want to share something I'm struggling with so and hear your uh just hear you um
8:01 I get what you're saying I mean shift in perception uh seeing things differently um uh and yet I don't want to let go of the dream so I'm really suffering because um I see it and it's like sort of standing on the edge of a cliff not wanting to jump holding on with my fingernails yeah and I can admit this and I'm I'm not ashamed to say I do not want to let go yeah and if I could go back to sleep I would yeah uh so I'm kind of in a Lial space uh not yeah I I'm just I I I could ask you
8:50 what am I supposed to do and I already know the answer uh what's the answer there is no answer um well no no it's there's no you right yeah the everything you described is a story of the me right yeah so I want to join you actually it the story of the me is that something has to happen right letting go for example I cannot let go of that story I am no but that's the story right that there's a demand the story is holding me at least it seems no no there nothing is holding anything already right the story that something needs to
9:35 be let go is a story it's an illusion right so I hear that I feel that I resonate with that and I cannot join that no you never will how could you join everything right you're right um yeah like when you say that I can relax uh and then something will happen guy on the street will say something and boom um and then got of got to R relax um but yeah uh I you know um I don't know what I'm looking for I'm
10:22 not uh I know it's already I've already found well the individual can't help but look for something right I hate that I hate that individual um no you don't well the me it's the biggest addiction is knowing and knowing you want to let go knowing you hate it all of that is the same sense of Separation The Illusion the illusion that there's a you that could let go or that has something or that something needs to happen it's all the same illusion I told you in a previous I'm former philosopher psychoanalyst uh recovering addict so yes I um yeah I I
11:09 want that and then so you want what uh freedom but another point no one gets Freedom right I want it though I well exactly of course you do because the individual has the sense that this is incomplete right right and so it puts it puts Freedom as an object of something that it could have and the individual and the individual Waring against this is saying no I still want that and and that is all what can't be named right and that is torture that is torture is torture for me so let me ask this because I've heard you and other so why would I want
11:56 this I am in this torture you don't right the me wants the torture right wants the struggle I AMS to not it wants to feel like it has to let go well also the me is afraid of um whatever this is and I'm tortured because if I I mean let go it's like I don't know anything but the torture I know absolutely well that's all that can be known what we're talking about isn't something else to be known right it looks for something else to know it says it says this isn't freedom because I don't know it it says this isn't whole because I don't know it right yeah that's an
12:43 illusion and and again I I I hear it it's just I'm just in such torture like um you know and yeah I mean that's probably why I was an alcoholic drinking to dead in N numb and where do you live New York I'll see you next week we'll meet in person oh all right good yeah I need I need some I need some of your shocky brother because even though even though you can't give it I want it and I'm coming to get it oh you'll be sorely disappointed I know I already am but uh good to prepare well done you well thank you I appreciate it I'm sure I'll pop back on I'll give somebody else a chance great thanks David
13:35 hi Harrison hey Jim hey hi um yeah I don't really I don't really experience myself as feeling anything's incomplete I just see my life as like a constant movement away from Pain towards pleasure yeah yeah I never feel like oh this is incomplete I need Oneness I'm just like oh I'm I'm in pain so then I do that helps me get rid of the pain yeah yeah oh that's life is that it apparently yeah do you agree I there's nothing to agree or disagree with that's that's what you're
14:21 saying yeah I couldn't give a [ __ ] if I if this is Oneness no I'm just like when I when I when there's no pain I don't I don't give a [ __ ] about anything but then when there's pain then I care you know yeah and I don't think there any way I've getting around that ever right yeah it's impossible it's like hence the no self hence there's no self because there's no control anyway so just even yeah yeah even if there was a self there would be no control because we're kind of like a slave to Pleasure and Pain yeah those are just those are just Concepts yeah yeah yeah I mean I could listen to what you
15:06 say and it could could create some kind of like state of being or something and then it could be painful and then I to be like [ __ ] that and I'd instantly discard it yeah all right man all right man take care take care hi kaarina hello hello hello thanks for having this um my question is how much does this sense of self that is here influence the the course of events the
15:55 story oh it it's hugely influenced because the sense of what's happening is is about the individual becoming which is an imposition on the naturalness of what is okay so in the story the events would be would be different without the sense of self maybe yeah exactly maybe who knows there wouldn't be any seeking not in the the sense we're talking about there wouldn't be seeking for wholeness or right now here there there is no more seeking for anything because uh everything is uh is
16:43 clear but the sense of seeking isn't isn't necessarily an activity in the sense of something that the individual would recognize when that sense of Separation arises in the body it it is incessantly it incessantly absolutely everything that appears is is taken into account as far as what's in it for me ordering everything in the sense of meaning and purpose ordering everything for its it's its sense of finding something it's like an energy that does this with everything even if there's no spiritual seeking or other seeking if there's an individual there's seeking
17:31 okay okay so because I just had an accident and I was want we all want in in the story we all want to avoid things that create pain oh that's not a story just like Harrison said that's just natural that's just what happens apparently yeah but thinking I'm think that if the sense of self was not here maybe I would have avoided the accident for example yeah well you don't know you don't know yeah yeah so it does influence the because it's neurotic I guess and it influence the course of events it does yeah okay but the course of events is just an appearance of that which can't be named in theory yeah I mean in
18:24 theory I guess that's what this meeting is about it's not a theory it's actually everything that's happening already I I I understand but I mean in theory because when there is the sense of Separation it is felt as an experience so it's lived so so that's why it's in theory for me but uh yeah yeah otherwise I I I there wouldn't be the separation here yeah okay okay thank you that's what I needed to clarify okay great thank you hi
19:12 Oliver hello Jim can you hear me I can uh I was thinking about what you said about um uh the me being a contracted contracted energy in the body yeah yeah but isn't the body also energy yeah so it's just like energy contracted in energy that makes seem like it's a somebody or something yeah that's right so there isn't anybody no there isn't anyone great
20:01 I also wanted to ask you uh I think I heard your comment about the movie Matrix once yeah do you think it's a an appropriated uh analogy for this you know in a sense in a sense it is except there's there's an actual negative force Mr Smith or whatever his name is that are actually trying to control um and there's an actual individual that wakes up Neo and becomes one and so in that way it it doesn't it doesn't the best analogy for this is
20:48 this and it's not an analogy there's just no way to describe it there's nothing separate to be able to orient a story around the wholeness that is already yeah I think the me always tries to you know can't understand this and tries to search for comparison yeah I I was thinking also about uh you you sometimes say that the me is like a dream and yeah yeah and then sometimes I try to imagine what it is not to be a me
21:33 like a lucid dream it is not a lucid dream it's not except there never is a me yeah that's hard to imagine yeah great thank you so much thank you hey David hey Jim uh welcome back um the what the gentleman just was speaking to um question I've had that's been ongoing is um what if separateness is the real um and this is the
22:21 dream my next followup question would be well how would I know but in your sort of logic uh yeah is no doubt doubt doubt is uh is you know the same energy as belief right and the individual is a large part belief and so it'll doubt will just be part of that and so when it hears something it can't get a hold of it'll bring doubt if it hears something that sounds good or it can AFF effectuate it'll bring belief and I don't want to seek either of those uh belief it's not up to you it's not
23:08 about you wanting or not wanting I think you're kind of missing the point that the individual situation of finding wholeness is hopeless right it's not a matter of Letting Go or being addicted or not or it's not a matter of anything the hopelessness is twofold one everything is already full uhuh in the sense that it's completely perfectly itself and the other sense and that includes the individual and the other way is that the individual is an illusion that's looking for an event for
23:55 this to become what it is already and that never happens it can't happen because there is no individual to fall away is anything separate from fullness to find it so so is it fair to say that my hopelessness because I've been feeling hopeless or lacking trust even that itself nefariously is still holding on to the the pursuit of Hope or something to hope for or something to trust in has nothing to do with holding on or not holding on as long as there's an the individual that dream of individuality is a sense of holding on is a sense of
24:42 having because I find myself in the experience of again fear hopelessness um lack of trust I mean they're all words but but that's my immediate experience of course I know I'm thinking but I just feel it and I suppose when I let go you don't no you don't and there isn't a separate individual that has an eye okay there isn't a me that has an eye so you're even pushing further for me to even uh let go of experience I mean there is absolutely no push right okay there isn't anything to push and there isn't anywhere to push it to okay there is only
25:29 holess okay and that's fully inclusive right that just and I I know my language I'm still inching towards it but there's only wholeness that an ie believes it can experience and yeah absolutely that's my entanglement because well now in this conversation or at these kind of meetings holess sounds like a something that it could want right in another meeting it would be another something that it could want right okay okay I'm inching closer okay gotcha thank you all right thanks David hi Harrison hello so you say that um the individual
26:19 the experience of the individual is a dream right yeah well isn't isn't the um Oneness of dream as well I mean it's just work words I mean like the perception of Oneness is an interpretation well it's not a perception yeah but the experience of it is a it's not an experience what would what would be there to experience Oneness if all there is is Oneness to experience it something would have to be separate yes okay all right okay thanks Harrison y
27:05 hi Arlin hey do do you hear me I can yeah I wanted to ask a question so uh what if every what if I I die for example uh will everyone disappear will will the war disappear or will it continue what's your take on this oh well there is no world to continue there's only what appears and so I'm not sure what you mean if the body dies that's what is if the individual dies a dream of Separation ends in a sense in the sense that it never
27:52 happened but I don't get I don't get this part like the body dies or the individual dies like when the body dies the individual dies as well I guess that's true that's true so so so so okay so the question more precisely will be if the body dies if I die and my body dies whatever the body dies here um will the world the world disappear or there already isn't a world there is only what is and the body dying would be what
28:42 is there is only what is yeah Jesus man [Laughter] okay so it's just when the body dies it will be another what is or there's no there's no this what is for there to be another what is this what is is an what it sounds like a limitation and what is is boundless unlimited all inclusive unconditional okay okay when I say what is I mean like uh uh the earth and the the car I'm sitting in the car I'm sitting in and the the trees and stuff like that
29:29 yeah yeah that's that's I mean the appearance is just the appearance so that won't continue when when the body dies you say there the dream is that it already continues what you're describing is the experience of the individual that lives a dependent reality separate from everything so it it has a demand or a need for or a sense of continuity it lives in a sense of continuity and part of that sense of continuity is things have becoming that's the dream there is only what is and it can appear as
30:14 anything a dead body someone no one so basically in in the me everything makes sense but in reality nothing makes sense you are saying totally totally in the sense that it's not an experience it's not that it's confusing or disorienting it's just that it's not an experience so what's looking through these eyes for example is just what is it's nothing it's all nothing it's all that would can't be named it's the tree is that the the Earth is that whatever else the same thing is uhhuh and the same
31:00 thing is what what is looking out his eyes and it's all nothing yeah it's not a thing though but yeah uhuh it's the same U unlimited Freedom yeah yeah that's all there is being and appearing as this all right nothing to be gotten no well there's just the whole sense that there's a that the need to get something is part of the illusion that there's someone wow this is kind of I don't know this is kind of it creates like space
31:46 inside yeah it can have all sorts of apparent effects hearing this or resonating with it but everything that appears those effects or anything else is the same is nothing it's nothing wow wow thank you thank you Jim thanks Arlin hi Catarina hi again I'm I'm I'm still stuck though how can a sense of a illusion influence the course of events it's an
32:32 illusion I thought that things were unfolding naturally that decision were made Naturally by the body mind system the genetics and everything and then after that that there was a sense this sense of Separation that grabbed and said that is mine yeah so what what is it that makes decision is it the natural body mind or or does well this sense of Separation influences that it has a sense of of need has a sense that things need to become and so if there weren't an individual there wouldn't be any churches there wouldn't be any meditation
33:19 circles or SAS okay so then in that sense you would say that there is a free choice in oh no not at all not at all that the the there is a there is a different Choice made than the the natural one yeah yeah okay well I mean there isn't an unnatural Choice everything that appears as nothing appearing to happen and nothing can appear as a separate individual that feels like the
34:05 appearance is incomplete and therefore something needs to happen in that sense of something in particular needing to happen depending upon the story of that particular individual has apparent effects so the catch here is that we try to get rid of the sense of self so as to um create a better uh um life a better uh yeah better experience a better experience yeah whereas the experience that is is the only but it's not that's that's the maim my where I'm stuck the experience that I'm living is not the only one available there was another experience where for example I would
34:51 have had a I wouldn't have had uh um the accident for example or yeah yeah well the individual is always coming up with possibilities to have a better experience like not having an accident if the sense of self were not here maybe I would have avoided that that's who knows who knows maybe you would have died okay yeah who knows maybe it' be exactly as it is it's true the individual is completely dependent on the appearance and so all the value it gives it has or feels is is related to what the what happens in the appearance yes it's trying to to um uh
35:37 to have therapy in order to smooth out yeah well it doesn't matter what it is it's a better experience yeah it's looking for a better experience okay okay it's in the end it's trying to become good enough it's never good enough yeah yeah and it isn't so the real the external reality isn't good enough because it is well some the individuals are different in that way some of them are more internal some of them are more external I'm not good enough or the appearance isn't good enough but not good enough is in there okay okay thank you thank
36:24 you hi Harrison hello um so if I got like a a flamethrower and set your arm on fire and Jim Newman the Newman Theus self or whatever would seek to U mitigate that pain right but there isn't anyone to do anything but if if there was getting a flamethrower that that set this you know the arm on fire of this apparent body as an American I just shoot you but um but you're talking about how the the separate self feels incomplete isn't if your arms on fire and you want to make that pain go away isn't that the same thing absolutely not what you said
37:11 in the beginning although a little misconstrued it sounded like is what naturally happens already the body will avoid pain and seek out pleasure preferences preferences what we're talking about out here is an extra added sense that that of a need of what what seems to be hidden in the appearance of a seeking energy trying to find something else in the appearance which isn't in the appearance it's the whole of it that's that's what we're talking about yeah and that sense of that sense of there not being in an office uncomfortable yeah yeah yeah okay cool thanks thanks
38:05 hi Rick hey Jim how's it going yeah good how are you that's all right um question um the Mi gets a lot of abuse coming to these meetings and listening to the message um it gets a lot of abuse and it it starts to uh get in line with that you know you're not really here it hears it over and over again this reactive aspect of mind yeah and then and if it's if it's like yeah but that's just misunderstanding what's being said and I think in the beginning I I sort of alluded to the fact that the individual will necessarily
38:51 misunderstand what's being said as an object as a thing that it will take on being no one or it will take on somehow being I forgot what you said abused because there is there isn't that's just not what's being suggested here wholeness wholeness fullness is the individual there is nothing right or wrong with any of it there is nothing to abuse there are no enemies nothing needs to happen from the sense of the individual's point of view that the appearance is somehow incomplete yeah and I don't mean that I feel abused
39:37 I see the me contraction getting a lot of nose it's like well maybe maybe if if I ask him this question it yet is behind the left behind my left ear it's really there somewhere he like no it's not there so after enough and that's the abuse like I feel abused well the the movement of contraction appears and it appears again it hears the message no but it is behind the left ear what's long for yeah so it gets it starts learning the me learns how to put its own hand behind its back oh it's not here are we talking about what's happening there or are you imagining what's happening for other
40:25 people other happens here what happens here although Mis understanding yeah what you're doing is you're hearing this as something about you yeah and it isn't about you it's got nothing to do with you now if the me if the youu asks a question about how do I get something the response is there isn't a you it's pretty clear it's not about you so hearing this as though it's some sort of imperative to put aind hand behind your back or to think or to practice being no one that's just a misunderstanding right but that's what the me does well if it if it thinks this sounds good it'll do but it'll do that
41:12 with anything it'll do that with any anything that sounds good it'll it'll try to apply it to its life yeah and in the end it actually doesn't want what we're talking about not only can it not know what we're talking about but it's the end of it so it doesn't want it so any practice is just a you know a re a confirmation of a sense of Separation wanting to continue whereas the message is there isn't a me so after a period of time the the the sense of me gets
42:00 enough are we continuing on the same thought I guess we just gonna ignore everything I just said it does that doesn't it it's so good at doing that the other thing you said what do I do with that well that's nothing in it for me wait I'll go back to what I was doing before yeah I let go for the right thing that properly oh and it totally does the thing of so and so could really hear this you know of my stepdad sure surely could have used that so with the with the confronting with it with the nose and the no and the no just coming to this right now the no keeps coming the no keeps coming um and that
42:45 sense of uh exhaustion sort of happens in a mini way it gets exhausted like just then the little confrontation and it goes whoa you know it has nothing to say for a minute so despite this arising contracted me sense it still gets through that there's that there's no one but that's that is if there's an openness that can happen that something else hears this I find that a me doesn't stay at meetings like this for very long if there isn't an openness to there being something else because all it hears is no all it does is get frustrated yeah and then hearing people unless it misunderstands and takes it on as a
43:33 process oh yeah and that's that's done that here it's part of that oh I'm gonna be just this I'm gonna be in just this and you then but see then what's what what's seen is that's doing that yeah and even with it doing that again and again there it is again it can open up and just kind of yeah so one question one more question about the Glimpse experience thing that you've talked about when you talk about a contraction sometimes when that when this openness happens the the there's no message coming through nothing's getting anywhere there'll be a little contraction not a contraction but a recognition of the contraction in the belly it'll just come up when when when it appears that something's being about to be seen through the system seems to
44:22 go here's a little I'm I'm going to highlight this contracted part of your belly highlighting it so it's clear to no one it's there but then the another little subme comes in and wants to take it further you need to really let see it's showing you the second me or the third me or the fifth me comes in to say it's a whole crowd of them and tries to say well well now you know so then the same there's no there's no message for that you just oh that's just another thing the contraction has showed up that this one this isn't about recognition that the everything is just another thing thing and the contraction actually isn't limited to the belly right so in the story of Jim there was no recognition of the contraction until it stopped it was
45:09 in the stopping of it that apparent change that it was like Oh and it was it was in the whole body it was the whole the whole body is imbued with the sense of Separation yeah all right good good good thanks Rick hello again um thank you thank you Rick that was beautiful man wow um and Jim for I don't know just beautiful um
45:56 just want to follow off of that because um lots of what Rick said I mean I truly identify with resonate with um you've pointed out to me Jim in past um conversations through Zoom uh the witness and as I listen to as I listened to Rick um you know sort of the witness or even coming from it uh psychoanalytically the observing ego the me uh I mean his process was beautiful and then making something of the process is still a trap and an entanglement and so he's catching it it's like you pointed to me the witness is witnessing and uh my question is is and you you said something that the the
46:42 individual uh wants the appearances the individual builds churches and organizes SAS and so on and so forth uh that's where I'm finding myself stuck because I as I said earlier I still want the dream still want the church and the SOS that I participate in uh the witness is pleased with with itself for the progress the idea of being stuck is the idea that this could or should be different right yeah it's just part of the dream of Separation you use the word longing in a talk and you distinguish longing from wanting so I I I I I sense the the distinction I long for this but I want the dream um and sometimes if
47:27 but the the conundrum for the individual the problem for the individual is nothing is separate already so then the longing so being stuck is part of the dream that non-separation is hidden behind being stuck and if there weren't being stuck there would be wholeness but there is only wholeness the sense of being stuck is wholeness being the sense of being stuck right it's like the eye trying to see itself I just find myself so goddamn stuck and I want to get unstuck and I want it even it's like like Rick was saying it's like
48:14 help and this is not helping and and the response is there no it's not because there isn't anyone to help and there isn't anything that needs to happen I know you don't know that I'm scre I'm like Edward Munch screaming um okay thank you thanks David hi Harrison hello um so um yeah yeah yeah so how do you know how do you know when you're um seeking because there's a difference between seeking and exploring
48:59 right how do you know what how do you know that you're seeking or they seeking happening oh I think most people probably aren't aware of it yeah but how it's not obvious to most yeah it's not obvious to me yeah yeah so how would you know yeah well when it when there's I think there might be in some sort of an openness to the hopelessness of seeking sort of a sort of a I get I don't know what you call it an awareness or an obviousness that seeking is an endless stream of of um trying and failing yeah but I'm not sure about that I don't I'm
49:46 not sure about that but I definitely I definitely can see that I'm exploring I'm like I'm exploring this just naturally curiously like a child right and all of Consciousness is just basically explores itself but yeah what we're talking about here isn't trying isn't trying in any way to tell anyone anything so why bother um no I'm just I'm just trying to um understand what you mean by I'm seeking what is that like what is seeking it's the sense that this has some sort of need that it's incomplete that something I wouldn't say I experienced that okay fair enough yeah and um would you say um that the experience of pain
50:33 changes when the self collapses in the sense that it isn't happening to anyone okay so there there's less resist resistance maybe well they're just it's just not happening to anyone okay thanks BR thank you hey Jad be here thank you for doing this uh man it's cool to see your face and hear your voice I've listened to you a lot uh I first want to acknowledge the absurdity of using mouth noises to do any of this but
51:18 uh at the same time like what fascinates me is watching this play out in this meeting and I experience it playing out conversations with people so I just want to ask you your thoughts like why so much resistance why is there so much resistance to this the keys to unlock the shackles like why yeah because there's nothing in it for the me and the me can only be in it for itself okay I figured you would say something like that thank you thanks Jared hey
52:05 Ali hi Jim hi uh so my question is when the illusory self Falls away is there a uh great reduction in thought meaning a Stillness of mind there there's no longer as much self-centered thinking so does that mean does that imply that a different way of trying to get rid of the illus self might be a kind of a sophisticated attempt at
52:51 stilling the mind yeah so I should have said in the beginning when you said when the Falls away that that it doesn't there isn't there isn't a me to Fall Away the me the experience of being of of of of a me is one of Separation one that the appearance has meaning and purpose one that the appearance is real that the appearance has some sort of intention to be come that's illusory in that sense yeah but in that sense Jim everything is illus including
53:39 your body the chair everything not in the way not in the way that I'm talking about it so the illusion as far as I'm talking about it is the individual's experience of the appearing so you consider the inner what what most people consider to be the inner self to be in a sense more of an illusion than the outer self than the outer things or the body well the the illusion is that there's an inner and an outer that's that's personal and so that's that's just an illusion the illusion ends but part of that illusion what what's revealed when
54:24 that happens is that there never is like now there is no illusion there is only what appears and what appears is neither real nor unreal it just is fullness appearing for no reason and as it is already and there already isn't an illusion there can't be a practice but uh would you say that the if the mind was absolutely still and there were no thoughts whatsoever then the illusion would automatically not be there no because the illusion the illusion isn't a
55:10 thought no but it has to be everybody you just have you just have a me that didn't think no but that's not how it works I mean if you don't have thoughts if you don't have thoughts if you don't have thoughts or all the feelings which are associated with thoughts the M eyes I mean there is no there is no thinking illusion needs some thinking to maintain it true you mean a person without thoughts can have an illusion obviously there are people out there teaching people to stop thinking as a path to what is already so there must be an individual not having
55:56 thoughts as a better experience suggesting to others that not thinking is a better experience but Jim the same can be said about you I mean you're having this meeting so you somebody could imply that you have a self but that's so you so you haven't listen to anything we've talked about listen to everything but maybe I okay well part of what was said was that this isn't about getting anywhere that there isn't an indiv to to fall away and that everything is already complete and whole not separate so I understand that the individual can't hear that it hears it in a way that it has to be a path with intention it
56:44 isn't but to hear it that way is a misunderstanding to at what point Jim does this does this insistence on not talking not uh saying obvious thing become just a rhetoric become what a rhetoric you know just rhetoric yeah on your part no on on the part of
57:32 somebody in your I'm not talking about you I mean there are lots of uh people out there oh this I think I think a large part of what's heard here is misunderstood but that doesn't mean that there isn't something else that hears it in the sense that resonates with it as I said in the beginning what's truly longed for is more OB obvious than the experience of being an individual and in some ways talking about it like this and it's not just the words it can there's a resonance that happens with that there might be also in the same particular body and appearance of an individual that tries to apply it
58:17 but that doesn't diminish that it isn't it isn't limited to that but that isn't coming from an intention here because what's obvious here is that the individual is also wholeness is also fullness would you say that there are you know in common language uh Vibes vibration that uh the one without the illusion self gives out I wouldn't say it like that exactly but yeah and it's it's actually that there aren't Vibes that it's not coming from anywhere it's just nothing speaking without meaning or
59:04 intention without purpose it's just obviously just simply what is thank you Ali hi can you can you hear me yeah so recently you said that the reason why there's so much resistance to this message is because there is not nothing for the me yeah [Music] so uh the the me with this message with
59:51 this message is going to be constantly disappointed yeah to the dice well it's not a path it might just be disappointed and go somewhere where it can get something so so so it dies in disappointment when it dies is because it's oh it doesn't die because of anything it doesn't die because of anything because because it already isn't there right so that's why um as long as there is to me people eventually goingon to be not
1:00:37 interested in this message because I think right as I spoke about with the last man seems that there's often two things happening at the same time that there's the disappointment or the frustration and there might be a resonance a hearing of what's being said that may not be simply in the words right and in the in the story of Jim that brought about enormous gratitude there was still the frustration and the disappointment but there was also enormous gratitude just
1:01:23 gratitude okay so it's not all bad it's not all disappoint it's not that TR for the me it's all bad right and so recently I I've been not understanding but having a resonance with the message that it's just what it is like it's just what happening and at the same time like I feel the contracted energy like like it's just almost like a
1:02:11 limbo yeah and is that a story or or that is just recognizing that that's what Happ that's the story me that there's a limbo but what's happening is that is the feeling of the con energy yeah oh absolutely there's an apparent story there's an apparent individual absolutely it's an illusion that there's a limbo an in between there is no in between there is only absolute but but the feeling of the contracted energy is there it's not a
1:02:56 story a recog simply I don't know what you mean when you talk about the feeling of contracted energy but there might be a sense something needs Happ yeah there might be a sense that something needs to happen or something hasn't happened yet and it will in the future and that's a dream that anything ever really happens and that what happens could bring about what is already that's just part of the dream the illusion of separation and part of that story is that there's a limbo of being betwix and between and that's just a story there isn't anything between there isn't anything there isn't anything separate
1:03:44 already I I I yeah I I recognize what you say but the feeling is is there is like being stuck oh I get it I get it yeah thanks thank you Jim hey David hello again um so appreciative just of all the shares um as much of a transmission from them as from you um want to uh Express gratitude the that's the word I perhaps it's just fullness uh and thank you for
1:04:30 acknowledging the gratitude that uh Jim experienced um again if that's the word we want to call it so I appreciate that and ali um really um could identify with his line of questioning um and appreciated where he was going with it I want to ask because uh I felt sadness and again that's just the word I'm using and like something I think Jared had said about um resistance to the message or again whatever words but just the me that uh just I don't know the me that that holds on whatever words but just sadness and then I was like well again sadness is
1:05:16 just an experience rest in whatever that is but I asked that because it was different than the Gratitude and fullness that I felt when you uh I'm just feeling it with some of the shares and what's going on and what's emerging Beyond this me uh that wants something oh you really think you're gonna work this out yes yes I yeah I I mean I knew it as soon as I I I was sadness and gratitude it's got to be in there somewhere right I'm like there's there's there's there's yeah there there's yeah there's a way out um rather than just this being here
1:06:04 uh but I there is something I mean I'm laughing but uh there is something about and I know the Paradox uh when I say receptive it's like then puts me in Paradox with doing something or acting but really there's something going on and even like I said when you said gratitude I was like yes I I'm full I mean it's like I'm not seeking or wanting it's like whatever this is I'm in it and but that was different than when Ali was speaking and again I got his line of because I get stuck there or wherever or go there man all right
1:06:50 then but there seems to be again this transition like Alan was saying this oh but there isn't the transition the whole idea that there's an individual that dies or Falls away sadness gratitude the whole idea that there's an individual the whole sense of being an individual is an illusion it's an illusion it's wholeness appearing at that so it's still I'm still the individual wanting to feel sadness and gratitude and finding a way out this didn't say wanting not in that way although the individual is would prefer to suffer than to die right exactly that is where I'm at that is where I'm at that is why
1:07:37 I do my sodas and my meditations and my Retreats at least it tells me I'm doing something and I'm getting somewhere and I'm not going to die there isn't anyone doing that right yeah it's just what seems to happen gotcha okay thank you all right thanks man hi Orlando hi Jim you can hear me okay yeah perfect um I wasn't going to speak but uh David motivated me enough to to participate so thank you um I don't know if it help help him or anybody else here but um I always there isn't anyone here nobody hereen any individuals and the
1:08:23 whole idea what happens when there appears an individual is that there appears to be individuals in every body and then there's that need to help true um where I was going to get at is um I I pictured this as being like an antenna an antenna has no purpose other than to interpret and receive waves it's not a person not a characteristic it doesn't have to travel that's just perception you're describing perception what whatever wave comes at you and whatever you're seeing in front of you your well if there's an individual there'll be the sense that it needs to do something with those waves correct what what I'm saying is um the ego that's here that seems to be here Orlando thinks that speaking to somebody I'm I'm just perceiving
1:09:09 perceiving whatever is being thrown at me in whatever it's coming at color brightness heat temperature smell is just here to perceive and and live The Experience nothing to do but just to live it just to be there yeah well those are just as far as I'm concerned that's a process or a path a concept because this isn't about you allowing everything it's that there isn't a you it's the lack of resistance just to be to whatever yeah it's not about resistance or a lack of resistance right but the I the me is stuck in resisting or not resisting oh the me isn't there isn't anything stuck okay it's all already free I'm just trying to say um this is where we get stuck on our daily uh life
1:09:56 but there isn't anything stuck and there isn't a daily life but we see it right the people here there isn't one it doesn't matter if there's an illusion of an individual not only is there no daily life in that way but there's also no individual perfect so that that's what this message is for for that individual that thinks that it's there doing things well thank you it's a response hi Andrew hi Jim thanks for the meeting yeah um just can I just ask why do you keep saying for the
1:10:41 individual and then in the next sentence and then there is no individual isn't it can't we just say there's no individual and just stay on that yeah yeah I don't know when I said for the individual but the individual in that separate reality it feels like it has its own its own thing going and part of that so part of that is like a sense of meaning and purpose and intention so for the individual the appearance has meaning intention and purpose yeah but that sentence is is annoying me for the individual well don't don't listen then you can go no no no I'm really enjoying it this is like the best it's absolutely fantastic but why do we need that sentence for the
1:11:28 individual why why can't well that's the way it is for the individual this appearance has meaning and purpose what's that there is no individual that's true but you can't tell the individual then no no I I'm glad to be here I'm not I'm not annoyed that I need to leave I'm happy to be annoyed yeah thank you thanks Andrew hi Anita let's try it again yeah hi hi hi so it seems to be that there are um 10,000 or 20,000 I don't know how much
1:12:14 um nobodies are into this message so um it seems to be that there is a society with rules and thinking in the Box instead of thinking out of the box anything can appear yes anything can appear yeah yeah yeah that's what yeah yeah good thanks Nita thanks hey David hello um just thinking through
1:13:03 this again uh which is yeah uh I'm just seeing the way my mind works and listening to everyone and uh even Orlando's uh intent to help I felt it and then I was like yeah that's an individual helping another individual um and part of the dream and was making me feel good and useful and whatever story I was telling myself about uh bringing him forward and so on and so forth you there isn't a you doing any of that right exactly but uh that that dream is so compelling to me that so easy for me to drift into it well there isn't anyone drifting into it right right and I appreciate your your
1:13:51 diligence and consistency with the message because it really is I am so in my head and thinking this through thinking this through but all there is is apparently being in the head a lot of thinking that's it that's wholeness being in the head thinking there isn't anyone doing that and that isn't a uh a limitation in any way whatsoever that's just what appears that's everything appearing or the absolute appearing as thinking in the head and then it okay um which from the point where where what needs to happen if that's wholeness being thinking in the
1:14:40 head because I want to find something wrong with that well that's wholeness wanting to find something wrong right because I'm judeo Christian who believes that I'm fallen in sinful and the ress appearing as a Geo Christian judeo-christian belief right that's just what is this sense of wholeness that I hear you and again uh I want it's not a sense of wholeness it is no it isn't right a sense right it's wholeness yeah this isn't an experience right what's longed for isn't another experience right for the
1:15:27 individual are you listening yes Andrew or whoever no somebody didn't like for the individual for the individual all that matters is the is a is more experience it just basically wants more right this isn't enough it wants more anything will'll do and so like like the thinking mind that's fine it's all fine I mean to the extent that no it's not it's not fine and it's not not fine it's just what it is okay it's completely in the sense that it's absolute equilibrium without intention without goal without need to become it's
1:16:13 completely equal it has no value so that we're here whatever appears is simply AB the absolute appearing whatever that is right with the same as the same wholeness or the same fullness so not we're no more special that we're here trying to there isn't anyone that's special right right there isn't anything in that way that's special right it's all completely equal right okay okay thank you thank
1:17:00 you okay can you hear me yes oh good okay hi your K reminds me of Special K there's nothing special here I know oh I'm glad you're coming to New York I hope I get to see you yeah well all you have to do is Hop on a train or something I know but you never know anyway well well um what it what's Happening Here is nothing yeah okay well theuser me what it it's it's just
1:17:45 uh noticing it's so much um how do I put it uh like just programming is happening every single thing that I do it's either programming or habitual and it's just really but it doesn't matter it's just what's happening it's just nothing appearing to happen the form is here the physical form well there isn't actually a here all there is is everything and that's nothing appearing as a physical form well nothing appears as whatever a physical form a thought a
1:18:32 tree cat right but I'm I'm related there physical form that runs if its arm catches on fire yeah it fights to survive when yeah so does the tree nothing special about the human body right the tree does that too but but the human body there's a there's uh right now and there's exchanging through the resonance in the voice it's voicing and still nothing happening but as the body breathes on its own and but there's just what seems
1:19:19 to be happening which is nothing just just go to nothing and it's all falls down it just it's so much of the body because the body is is is all that is a relationship to the me is the body well that's how the me feels it that's how that's the experience of the individual yeah and it it it it just kind of confound but it's still nothing happening there's no working it out there's confounding though this body and
1:20:06 then the way the reaction there isn't a this body there's just body and the reaction even even the reaction that happens which I believe is emot oh it's emotional reaction emotions are nothing appearing to happen it feels programmed it's programmed I programmed is nothing appearing as a program but my there's a program here my program is nothing my program program but there's 80 billion programs I don't know it just there's something that just I can't it's it's oh I don't know I just can't can't go with
1:20:52 nothing it's no you can't because you aren't I can't yeah there's nothing there's nothing there nobody here and I I I just know there's so much that has to whatever and it all feels like there is nobody doing it anyway it's programmed and the habitual the habitual is intense yeah but that's all just very conceptual labeling everything as though a path labeling is going to make as is looking for a better experience there's just what is and it's nothing it's too simple yeah it's too
1:21:40 simple yeah it's too simple simp there's nothing in it for the individual I don't know there's a struggle it's still there like I can as long as there's an individual there's an apparent the dream of individ uality there's an A Dream me the minute you do the minute there's being an action performed it's like holy crap I know where that came from almost the reaction to an action holy crap I know where that came from you know there isn't a you to know no there's nobody to know it but I'm just saying there's a recognition somewhere so that's just wholeness recognizing it's Crea well that's also appearing as an individual
1:22:27 there's nothing outside or inside wholeness wholeness or what is is just simply everything thanks Kathy thanks Jim hi Rick hi Jen thanks for calling on me in the last last little few seconds yeah last minute okay so I'll get it in real quick um all right we come with these questions you knock them down one after another the message knocks them down there's no you there the message knocks
1:23:13 it down we come you hear all the people spoke questions throughout this meeting they're almost reflective of the same [ __ ] that's coming out you know the same kind of oh I could see myself asking the same question so we leave the meeting and we we've received this message we reive this no but but what if Daddy no what if that nope you know sort of endless no you go out into your day no one goes out into the day there's this message of just this is what's happening it's not really even a message that you can apply the way you've presented it so is would you say that moment by moment as the apparent individual goes into their life this message is always coming at you the same no is somehow here in
1:24:00 this EX in this is built into the this the no is built in so we want to go look and find a practice that's a no you're like no to that but there is an underlying something that is communicating in the this as we go through our elus sense of separateness Moment by moment in our day that message is somehow being delivered and we're missing it then too so yeah so I would I I think it's simpler than that it's not actually a message there's there's the absolute obviousness that all there is is what is that's more obvious than the experience of being a
1:24:46 person and that obviousness isn't Moment by moment it's Timeless It's The End individual that feels like it comes and goes that sees this timelessness this Timeless wholeness fullness as a sense of Moment by moment but it is actually already everything including the sense of being in individual there isn't a going away and coming back to wholeness all there is is wholeness all there is is freedom that's everything that's happening already in the sense that it isn't is also it there is only what it and it has no demand or need to become
1:25:32 anything so just ride the snake there isn't anyone to do that no one's riding the snake but snakes are going by and writing is happening to no one okay beautiful thank you brother wonderful thank you thanks everyone yeah it's 11:30 I'm going to stop now appreciate it guys take take care
