0:10 this is it there is nothing else it's nothing being a play of light and [Music] sound for no reason it has no need to become anything in particular it isn't particular already in that it's free without any need to become anything
0:56 without any purpose it's free it's not free because there isn't any purpose it's free for no reason whatsoever being free it can appear not free which would be the sense that there's someone knowing what's happening that there's a separate knower of this a separate knower of this is also
1:46 nothing just another form of light and sound appearing as a seate noer however the sense of being a separate knower is a sense that this needs to become something or is becoming something really is the sense that I'm becoming I'm becoming whatever I think I need to become in order to find fulfillment or find let's call it freedom this Freedom can't be
2:34 found and the sense that it needs to be comes from the illusion that there's a thing called separation that there's someone that needs to know this is free and that is the Dilemma for that separate sense that sense of separation is it's for for that sense of Separation all value lies in knowing and experience the play of light and sound the nothing being that that Unity isn't
3:22 knowable isn't an experience so for the individual for that separate sense it has no value so this message in that way has no value for the separate sense the person it might be though that there's a that something resonates something hears this something that can't be held on to something that can't be grasped
4:18 fixed there is no need though to hear this to resonate with it there's no need for there to be a separate individual or not this meeting isn't about trying to become anything from here it's obvious already free it's also obvious that it's obvious everywhere that it is more obvious than the sense of separation
5:05 that obviousness that that directness is overlooked because there's no value in it it doesn't give that separate sense anything but we can we can talk about that if you like hey sorry about that can you hear me all right yeah I can okay great um so uh my question has to do a little bit with like what we're talking about New York City just like very briefly um so I'm wondering about like veganism and like
5:51 uh about what do sorry what about what ISM uh veganism oh veganism that's just that's just another play of light and form makes no difference it doesn't have the whole the whole of everything the whole play has no value however it plays out or seems to play out has no value it just is nothing appearing as that well yeah I can that sort of makes like some sense to me um but like one thing
6:37 you mentioned was um the difference between like suffering and a parent suffering so like what what is that just another play yeah if an individual then it it there's a story around sensation and thoughts which leads to a certain kind of suffering and if there isn't an individual there the thoughts and and emotions aren't personal so it's a different sort of they have a different quality to them and so which are both just the same play of nothing wow now would you say that animals um is
7:26 there some way that we know that animals don't have a sense of self it's like is it because they're not busy well I have I have yet to see an animal Church yeah that's great yeah um uh okay so um the other part to my question was oh so you're you're saying in a video uh from like earlier this year that uh like you I think you were describing separation as being tragic yeah is is like why is that what why is it tragic it's just a bit sad that there is this sense of Separation that has all
8:13 these values about what this is and suffers underneath that need to become better or need to become something the whole while all there is is freedom there is only what's longed for this is that it's already happening it's already all that's happening and in that arises the sense that something needs to happen and suffers because of that needlessly and so that's tragedy of yeah and so you'd say that um you you also said that like the the tragedy doesn't matter
8:59 yeah right yeah well there's nothing but nothing there's nothing but freedom freedom can appear as tragedy yeah yeah and it I mean even in the conventional sense it's like it's all out of my control anyways but um yeah I guess that's not the sense of the separate of the separate individual that's not the sense is part of the fundamental Al sense is being in control or wanting to be in control yeah yeah yeah I can relate to that [Laughter] too cool um uh another thing um so
9:48 uh in New York City you said like we were talking about the brain and I was like oh there's no like it's kind of like there's no brain just because like um all of this that appears doesn't really look like a neuron like the inside of so it's like okay so there's no brain but like you you you agreed but I'm wondering what you mean by there is no brain like if it's an assumption no one ever sees the brain yeah yeah totally the me lives in an imaginary real real world full of beliefs of things that don't exist like meaning and purpose intention
10:35 brains real people real time yeah real separation yeah it is it is very weird like yeah I it's like it it generally seems like okay this is like um there's a body here that's like perceiving things um but but yeah it's just like parts of the appearance just don't make sense in that context so it's like kind of yeah but the but what we're talking about is the sense of being in a body that there being a a separation between the inside and the outside of the body right yeah that's the personal
11:24 sense and you know I have to admit I never really resonated like well I don't know like the the idea of like nonseparation I guess it's just like kind of abstract to me yeah yeah it would be yeah yeah cool yeah well the whole the whole of what we're talking about in a sense is abstraction now when we talk about the me the person and the the sense of being a person that'll be relatable in some way but when we talk about this being nothing that's not relatable because there's nothing separate from it oh so intellectually it'll be an abstraction but that's not really what
12:10 we're talking about we're talking about that there isn't an abstraction of nothing that everything is already nothing all right well one final question um so is there like so some of in some of my questions I was asking like why this why that like is there a better question than why or is it just like natural for the me yeah well the questions in the end are what what about me but there aren you know questions are sort of twofold there's the question and then there's where the question is coming from so the question in a way isn't irrelevant but it's also not that important yeah okay cool all right well
12:57 thanks Jim thanks Andrew hey David hey Jim thank you thank you so much uh yeah wow um lot opened up for me last night so I want to stay with uh this and maybe move to what he was saying about the abstract um I'm GNA get stuck with language because uh I understand as we're talking about it um language is just reifying so it's already uh I'm going to lose the directness but I I do want to try to meet it there isn't hold on a second there isn't anything that isn't
13:44 direct language isn't any less direct than anything else right trying to breathe into that uh breathing into it or not breathing into it is still nothing breathing or not breathing you can't get closer to nothing so what happens when I'm breathing uh or I know it's experience and then that uh again um I don't want to reify it so uh let me let me try to go in in another Direction uh you spoke about yeah this use the
14:30 word play um even me talking to you now and and just being here seems like play uh and I'm GNA use your language uh for the terms you use even if I'm wrong there's no lie but um uh when you speak about uh what this uh isn't this a dream the only dream is that there's someone that knows this and then once I start to speak about this how do I avoid stepping out
15:15 of this and being that there is no stepping out of this and then on a okay so I had a bunch of questions prepared I don't want to read them uh so I Intuit it that and I immediately and then uh what happens when uh that which is this uh is injured hurt um has to act uh or seemingly has to act in such a way again um I'm a father I'm also a
16:05 therapist I work in the world and that's the dream right so this is this is the circularity of that right that's the dream that I'm in no no no nope I is the dream there's just fathering and therapy in it's all nothing being those things already there isn't an actual separate eye doing anything there is a sense of eye that feels like it has valtion reality that's the dream it's just an add-on to what is already it's
16:52 just an add-on right and even this conversation now is uh not a part of the dream well there is no dream the only dream is that there's someone knowing this there's there's an eye doing it experiencing it that's the dream right so now I think uh when when you say nothing I'm in emptiness uh I'm uh immediately yeah I got it uh I guess at the end of the day this is my uh eye that's holding on uh for dear life afraid that and I know but it's my experience and it's what the eye is telling me that uh yeah uh this is is
17:40 terrifying um yeah but it sounds like now you've got two eyes an eye nose ey right that was that was that was my original question yeah there's a w there's a witness that I cannot um the witness is the same is the same dream right but it feels to me uh like that that circularity there's no way out of it no there isn't any way out of it because it isn't really happening right right there isn't anyone to get out said just to got to push little hard rting so you say you and I I can't my eye doesn't
18:26 want to trust this that is that is you but uh no okay um final question I told my my my S on that I would ask this uh that I practice with and uh again I don't want to refer to Doan practice all this a mumbo jumbo anyway part of the dream but uh would you say that uh before you um found this but it's not a finding it's a um realiz realization but again uh I don't even know all these words just again uh rifi bring us away but um you would you I know you've talked in the past about
19:12 your practice um and at the end of the day I know it's another story then your ass so on and so forth uh and even if I say how do you know that your past didn't bring you to the point where you are now that allowed you to um open up a new world presumably here now uh would you say that uh your practice uh I don't want to say it was necessary so I'm discovering that the people I'm meeting even meeting you and I met you in a weird odd uh kind of way through other channels and things like that I'm here today talking to you so uh I don't want to say that there's something special about this moment but I know that being here now is a part of this but um had
19:59 it's part of so the causes and conditions before your opening to this uh would you again at the end of the day this is this uh it just seems there is no before to this right so there isn't any anyone that wakes up to this through any sort of path or or or Ernie and then you're uh speaking the message uh well of course no one speaks the message there isn't there isn't even a
20:47 message okay I I feel you all right thank you Jim I got what I needed thank you right thanks hey Tristan hey Jim nice to see you and you um so you talked about obviousness of this yeah and I think in the last few months for me the obviousness is becoming more apparent and I feel like there's some realizations that that what you talk about is is is energetic and truly can cannot be approached in any capacity
21:34 cannot be understood like it's it's becoming very apparent that that is the case and it's already done like no matter which way no matter even even this idea of like okay but what is it or or why don't I get it that is it appearing like absolutely no where you can rest and like look at it from it from out from the outside like no matter what it's always it's always it um yeah and I think I I always thought this was like some intellectual understanding that I could come to but it's becoming very clear that this is it is a it's a it's like a complete freef fall it's it's just and
22:22 it's always it's always that no matter what yeah totally so I think I think it's I mean it's done like yeah yeah there's no there absolutely nowhere to go no one who could go it's I mean and it's like now I'm like oh so of course it's and it's it's always been like of it's always been like that like it's it's never not been like that like that's right anyway just wanted to share that thank you yeah well thanks trist hi gab hey Jim can you hear me he yeah yeah
23:11 cool okay um this is more a sharing uh not not a question about uh my experience of myself um recently I can see myself or maybe I just focus on this that uh uh how I how I try to to reach or to develop uh better better version of me a better version of myself oh how could you get any better well of course because I have kind of idea or I have values that I want yeah that's the dream yeah I know yeah I mean yeah maybe I you're already
23:56 awesome sorry you're already awesome yeah I can't imagine I'm an improved Gabor I can imagine of course of course the individual always can yeah and I yeah it seems that I always imagining myself as a better version and I can also see that uh it's an impossible mission yeah I mean this development or this trying and and I also think that maybe I just want to prove to myself with this failings that oh you'll always the me will always come up with a story yeah of
24:44 why it's doing why it it doesn't do anything but why it feels that it's doing whatever whatever is it'll always have a story yeah so this is this is also a story then that uh oh every about the me is a story yeah yeah well that this is personal as a story that there's someone in in the body having an experience that has some valtion to become something else is a [Music] story and then of course also the failing is a story I oh yeah yeah because probably I just want to experience this that I'm failing from time to time oh that's another story
25:30 yeah another one and then I think is the me me goes on and yeah yeah stories and stories and stories Yeah so basically in the end it's how important it is it seems that it's important still otherwise I will stop it yeah I I I I always remember that you you always correct us that uh this m misunderstanding that uh it's not about that uh there is nothing to do
26:17 but there is no me to anything and that I wanted to say that uh maybe I what how to say that with the experience in this uh failings I just want to prove that there is nothing to do but actually this is also not true because it's yeah the me will always come up with something to do or at least the sense that it's in control even if it's doing [Music] nothing yeah I'm going to do nothing I've listened to this message and it says they it's misunderstood oh so I can't do anything so I'll just do nothing that'll be my path yeah yeah
27:02 yeah yeah yeah and this is also about the control that oh well it's just another story okay yeah thanks gab Chow ciao hi Susanna hello Jean can you hear me now I can yeah I had the sound thanks yeah thanks a lot so I have a question about uh in one of your latest talks you said that uh uh it's not perceptible that this is nothing but when uh the when the
27:50 me fell away how was it realized what I I can again I can't but what uh what made you think that it is nothing so so I'm trying to get oh nothing made me think it's nothing it's just obviously nothing but how is it obvious how was it become obvious we can only intellectually intellectually understand this course and it reson you can't intellectually understand the nothing it can't be understood no but we can say that can see and I have been listening a lot of videos scientific videos that there is nobody there is no ghost in a machine and every video later that I have been
28:38 watching lately uh confirms that there is nobody in the body so that's why intellectually we can see that there is no doer of the action but yeah how was it revealed there that it is that this is nothing so I'm trying to understand how is it like not to have experience the best that you can explain how what is it like what's the experience of not having an experience that's the question that's why I'm asking how is it possible not to have experience so it's impossible to imagine yeah yeah that's true that's true that's why there's no
29:25 message yeah that's why this isn't about information or becoming because it doesn't feed in it doesn't feed into that need yeah the need is an illusion which hides this is nothing well this was my uh first question and in your talk with Gabor I I another question arose when you say that yeah we can't be become a better version of ourselves but I think that other people make a lot of contribution into our thinking that we are not we actually other people yeah but you know that surrounding anyway the illusion is the
30:12 illusion is that people make you think that you are not good enough yeah that something is not good is not I mean there's always a story when there's a person yeah yeah even in the character that you need to improve you need to be this way or that way that's why I think just from the very childhood we are wired to think that something is wrong with ourselves with when there's when there's that sense of Separation there'll always be a story about what this is yeah no matter from surrounding or from our own contraction it's it's we can't so it's not possible that it won't it will arise anyway with that contraction
30:58 will no way to escape say there's no one to escape it's just it's just an appearance of nothing yeah and the contraction is just apparent but makes the makes the illusionary meing that it's all real yes no problem with contraction also no there's no problem with anything with the the this as as as all isn't trying to become anything it has no value the appearance has no value in the sense there's no story to it so if it appears as a story
31:43 as a me that in essence has no value makes no difference to the all the freedom that this is the only movement that is going on really is that new bodies are no there is no movement that's going on really but when new there isn't any movement at all yeah new bodies are born isn't it a a new movement a child isor it see there seems to be movement but it's just nothing appearing it's movement just arising of nothing yeah yeah again meaning nothing yeah thank thanks a lot thanks
32:40 goodbye hi Andrea hi hi this is my first meeting very happy to see you I've been listening to a lot of videos um but the question that came up now is um what is is it that's happening when a specific memory from the past that doesn't exist keeps coming up like it keeps coming back the specific uh situation oh uh I mean in the story what will happen is that their separate sense will give value or meaning to particular memories or actions and that will give those memories or whatever actions um value
33:29 energy importance it's just another story so how do you empty out that charge from that spe well I mean there's all sorts of practices and therapies one could do to empty out that charge but then you just have an emptied out charge that then goes looking for something else the individual that separate sense doesn't have a choice in finding something more or something else a better something better so if if mulling over past experiences is the fulfilling that sense of a better experience and that's what it will do if that's not it it'll go look for something
34:17 else it's tedious with the same stuff going on yeah well that's just a story that it's tedious it's not about you know in the beginning I said it was just a play a play of light and and um sound memories everything that arises is just that same play it's completely empty of meaning purpose intention value importance it it appears there absolutely no reason
35:04 whatsoever it's singular it's this I love [Laughter] that yeah I think that's it thank you so much okay thanks Andrea oops I think I might have clicked someone away sorry hi David hi Jim uh I am back um and other jokes I man I've been laughing a lot
35:50 lately this is the cosmic joke but uh um so as I'm listening to you talk and the conversation um uh I H the eye pops back on and uh very easily wants to to know uh understand drop back into the dream I mean it's already in it just again my mind starts working uh and like you said that uh Dream Within a dream uh I'm yeah standing outside of this conversation uh and listening and feeling like I'm in a Dream Within A Dream yeah what what the suggestion
36:35 is there is no one everything is simultaneously nothing that's it and and so and the dream is that someone knows that someone knows this and that dream is still nothing appearing is still nothing being the play of being someone it it can't be worked out because what's truly wanted is already not separate and everything else and everything else is just an endless story
37:21 about the separate sense the person a personal story about what this is and when none of it none of it has any value or intention makes no difference and and I I Intuit this uh and when I'm in this it just deeply resonates uh until the dream pops back in and again I'm trying to uh yeah again like like gavor said uh it starts to matter uh again the eye Dave that has to do something this that
38:10 it's so and the real the real the real kicker is that story that you just told of there being an eye that comes back in it's also nothing it's also free right well I I think somebody said it was a freef fall and that's yeah that's the way it starts to uh when I move back to the eye or that uh that there's this if if I don't do that I'm just falling which is I guess a dream too because there's no eye to fall well there's no there's no there's no eye to move back to the
38:56 eye right right or an eye to move away from the eye so how come this is so scary terrifying uh it's the loss of the sense of being someone which means being in control having a life having anything at all the dream of individual is that the appearance is solid and known and I am the knower of the reality of the appearance it's my life and that's that is all a dream right isn't anything that had or owned already there's no there is absolutely no substantiality right so then how do I if I really really yeah yeah I get
39:43 it so others the eye wants to join others in the dream um because they're there and I'm here that's part of the dream is that there are others separate I understand uh no no seriously that there are other people that's the dream right when when the when the person appears in the body there's seems to be a person in everybody there aren't any people
40:30 and your experience your well not the you but as you go about your your life so to speak uh this is doable no well that that that comes from the sense that there's someone in control that would lose it and then how does everything happen apparently no one's done anything already there isn't anyone because I guess uh you seem to not have this I mean there's no I or Jim to experience NE listic dispair uh over yeah um I again it's another story it's another uh trap from my eye trying to keep me your eye yeah
41:18 you must have done a lot of awareness awareness training or something you've solidly got two eyes going on yeah that and I'm a psych analyst so for my Neurosis is thick as thick thick as you can imagine uh yeah so yeah yeah okay okay thank you yeah thanks man hi Kathy hi Jim hi good to see you hi hey I love that introduction oh nice good I hope I get to hear it again that's all and you know
42:05 that's me wanting wanting more all the time but um yeah the play of light and sound just really loved it yeah I love them but the thought came um um that's only experience what is like sound it's just nothing I wouldn't call it I mean it's just another way of saying appearance and appearance isn't an experience oh you called it
42:52 appearance appearance is an illusion so that's we're back to that no the appearance is an illusion the only illusion is the knowing of the appearance dream of knowing the appearance yeah but light light and sound make the me feel the knowing the light no no nope there's an appearance in that which is nothing and within that there can be the sense of Separation which appears the illusion so because body in the body there might be a sense of knowing like you're alive I'm heing I'm
43:40 looking a a a sense of location a sense of being a person yeah that's that is the only dream everything else this conversation the wall the hand on the chin are the appearance it's just the knowing of the hand on the chin the sense that it's my hand that's the dream that's the only that's the only part of this which is the dream but without the light and sound there'd be no dream that's true what would that be just not just what is nothing being no light and
44:28 sound can't even know that no well you can't you can't actually know this I I'm GNA say I know can't be known but I'm there's something that happened with light and sound that's all it made the appearance here for me the appearance is without the light sound well that is the appearance same thing yeah I just just caught the appearance that's [Laughter] it a thanks Kathy
45:22 thanks hey Susanna hi again uh may I ask I've been lately interested in healthy eating and may I ask your opinion to this topic yeah because in this topic there seems to arise the causeing effect yeah when so in the message we understand that there is no real cause and effect but it's really in healthy no one chooses healthy eating yeah I can I can and healthy is dependent upon who you talk to but it's just another another story that someone chooses so there is either healthy eating or there isn't and whoever defines that is it makes no difference
46:09 yeah I'm 100% with you because I've been listening to a lot of experts one expert can contradict another that fats big fats are good yeah they always come up with a new Theory there's always a absolutely absolutely and I remember one of your jokes when a girl asked you uh in the meeting uh what happens in Jim's Body when the body gets hungry and you said well the way you look no eating and here eating happens very quickly it was like the body yeah and it seems it seems to to that some cause and effect can arise when you don't when you eat some and and about vitamins when we think
46:55 about how important they are but again you say that vitamins are nothing it's just what seems to happen the individual always try to manipulate the appearance to have a better experience it just that's just what it does and if it feels like um better eating is going to do that then that's what it'll try to do more or less successfully but it's just it's just nothing appearing to happen yeah it's really so because we can see the uh a sportsman I have been listening to the news that a six 26 year old Sportsman quite healthy person and suddenly died so no idea what could happen to him 26y old it was just a body
47:40 died body di yeah yeah I it's only important if there's an individual then it's seems important yeah I mean in this context yeah that he was healthy he was a sportsman and suddenly he died what could happen to him suddenly yeah yeah the individual the person is always trying to find the answer the answer yeah the the cause the cause what happen to the body so did he eat healthily or did he do enough exercise or something yeah thanks thanks Z hi Huxley
48:30 Jim hi hey enjoy the beginning the intro um that you shared um I think um well how should I put this well I'm intrigued by um what you're sharing and there's some curiosity here
49:22 um Susanna I think you got on mute thanks um I did it yeah thanks ch um so this is odds this is kind of odd what we're talking about in a way right uh so it's not often I get to um explore this with with others um and and I've spent quite a bit of time with with other speakers or teachers um but I want to I want there the wording whether it's right or not but there was an
50:08 experience here where the self I couldn't find um Huxley anymore and I couldn't find that anywhere with anyone yeah and it was uncaused even though I had been doing all these uh it seemed in the story there had been practices and teachers and years sitting and all but all of that was gone and for and and I had intended to share this message with people I had been practicing I was told that it was possible to have this experience and it was also possible to convey this to others but that ex but that that showed so I'd heard this Zen phrase selling Water by the river as that's what I do
50:55 and and I said no no no it's not that it's actually it's actually water selling water to water there's only water there's only that's right so so in the in the apparent confusion the apparent search that's it that's it perfectly just as much as the the apparent person or one who sees this this totally okay so so here we are so it's an odd it's an odd uh yeah really odd um I spoke with friends about it for about six months I can't couldn't find I was saying I don't know where these words are coming from but then that kind of just um it just kind of petered out I guess
51:43 or I don't know just it didn't happen anymore um and uh for whatever we're yeah um I live up Rich Mountain Road and all right yeah I'm about a mile up the as all right I'll just get on the porch and wave okay what good good being with you Jim yeah good to meet you too yeah thanks bro thanks be well hi FR for nand hello Jim I'm really afraid to talk to you because it's like I might be exposed
52:30 as an illusion I don't no one's exposed to anyone as an illusion there's just no it kind of feels like talking to you is admitting that there's no one and there isn't a problem yeah if you know what I mean nice to talk to you no I will ask you something oh good to try and stay in the game of getting somewhere but like you've always said the biggest problem for the me is that there isn't a problem yeah I agree it's so threatening why are you laughing because it's sweet that's a sweet thing you came up with it yeah it
53:15 good it is extremely threatening for the meeting I have a problem because I've noticed when I when it seems like there's nothing wrong I'm thinking I I feel uncomfortable about that there's nothing to work with and this so why is that so threatening for the me it's a sense of loss of its identity because it's identity is something's wrong and something needs to be something needs yeah that's right what about me is what it says yeah and so the me energy quickly invents a problem again or struggles or well that becomes the problem Oh there's no problem what am I going to do about that I'm quite good at quickly finding a drama again that might surprise
54:03 you but apparently I'm quite good at it and I would like to tell you that I love you as well Jim I think you're great yeah thank you thanks thanks William hello I'm back um oh can't get rid of me no the J the joke of I am back of course that's I'm glad you got the irony um so uh I've been listening and so many yeah um huxley's point about water selling water uh brings me back to the dream and
54:49 appearance and wondering to myself if uh like you said language is even this uh an appearance is this uh then even going down to the river to sell water um is this uh do we come back to the phenomena to the appearance as this um I guess you know it's maybe this question of uh as I said I'm struggling with still living in the world coming back into the market the world right there isn't anyone to live in it even in
55:35 the the dream is that there is a world and there's someone living in it it never happen the dream is that there's a separate reality a separate that there's that there's an a knower inside the body having the experience of a separate reality right it never happens it's all water right it never work and there's nothing other than water but isn't the dream also water isn't the dream also tot that's what I just said yeah it's all right so that even selling water um is just this so even even par I'm just you know again listening to the conversation seeing where the the the collective mind is going um into this
56:20 this is again a that uh I'm trying to just stay with with with this right rather than again moving how you stay with this how could you leave this how could there be anything other than this doesn't th doesn't this conversation though lead us out of this into that oh absolutely not it doesn't lead anyone anywhere there's no one to lead it can undermine the sense that there's someone to lead somewhere right that there's something other than water or that there's water that water could be found can you speak to the the undermining and as well as even our youth it doesn't give anything it
57:05 doesn't that what we talk the the conversation doesn't give anything to the Seeker there's no food here of prescription or suggestion that there is any any real person that could find anything else that gives nothing to that en energ of wanting to become or the sense of needing to become or find something gives nothing to that energy so how come we we are even having this conversation to to even rather than this well on one level you have to say there is no reason whatsoever for the conversation totally agree yeah in
57:51 another way you could say that there is a sense of Separation that feels like it needs to do something or find something and so it comes to this meeting in hopes of finding something else and it might be heard that there isn't an individual and there's nothing to find it's already done what was lost what seems to have been lost is impossible to lose because there is only that so this is the Paradox within this that we're the separation brings us into this no no it doesn't it there's a dream of not being um of being separate there's a dream of being
58:37 separate there is no separation so nothing brings nonseparation there is nonseparation that's already without the dream though uh we couldn't get to this no I mean I hear you it's already all this but we're already in the dream it's already not separate the the dream has no function there isn't anyone that comes out of the dream to realize non-separation the dream has no value in that sense of the the value of the dream is to wake up no one wakes up there is no separation and there is no value in the
59:23 end of the sense of Separation there's no value in the sense of Separation it's just what it's just nothing appearing as those things it's just what seems to happen and so you're again I'm just going to use the word realization uh that wasn't an Awakening uh it was just a happening uh I've called it an unhappen which is also misleading right it's not it's actually not an event right so it's the negation but okay it isn't a negation it's it is that there just isn't never is anyone there's nothing to negate and I'm using word and I'm using
1:00:08 the word event or unha happening uh to describe whatever occurred for you in that moment there's no you I understand you didn't listen to what I said I said it wasn't an event so it didn't occur and it didn't occur to someone right it's already it's already done there it's already done there's just a sense of being someone that feels like this isn't it it has to be somewhere that I can know it but it's the same there as it is here it's exactly the same and the me in me wants to know how the you that was you got there it makes a story out of it it makes a story out of what is has no story right is already
1:00:56 no story to this it's direct Timeless boom that's it all of it this is all of it okay I got you thank you thanks hey Tristan hey Jim I just wanted to quickly ask about the notion of effort and I think what you just said like it's already done that yeah that is so it's almost like I can't believe I ever forgot that um and I'm curious do you do you think the the feeling of that it's not done
1:01:43 and that I'm separate and that I know what things are engenders this sense this lowlevel sense of effort that is kind of exhausting and stressful that like yeah yeah I'm kind of seeing that melt away too where like I'm just sitting on a chair no absolutely no effort is required in any capacity for that to be what it is like at all yeah well there's no personal effort required to build a building to create a business to get up to do yoga to do whatever chop down a tree there's no personal effort required ever there might be effort but there is no need for the person in any instance it's just an
1:02:29 add-on a story about what's happening right like even running a marathon is effortlessness eff absolutely yeah okay thank you yeah thanks trist hi Martin hi J hi can you explain how nonduality relates to the way we perceive reality well the perception of reality is separation nonduality points to there being no separation so there's no perception of
1:03:14 it no one perceives non-duality so there is no one in the context of noning yeah there is no one there's no one in any context there just isn't anyone and how do we understand individual experience then the individual is a dream that there's an individual having an experience is a dream it never it never actually happens and thoughts and emotions are just appearing yeah so there is no attachment just well no or Detachment there's they're just
1:03:59 thoughts and emotions appearing there is no practice there there might be a practice of drinking tea I mean not practice to be nondual awareness how could you practice what isn't separate it's already it's already the case so meditation is just something what appears and it can it appears like it's in the system it it happens or it doesn't meditation but it doesn't have any value in the sense of finding non
1:04:47 nothing nality nothing does because there isn't anyone defined it there isn't anything separate and so suffering is only an illusion or if if we Define suffering is seeking then it is part of the illusory sense of Separation suffering is seeking M and what about relationships well there aren't any people [Music] MH all right thank you thanks [Music]
1:05:39 martinell hello hello I'm struggling to hold on to my question actually but I'm trying to get it together when hold on to the problem yes we got to get somewhere but the thing is you know like you said before all the me knows is experience or experiencing it's the same thing really yeah experience so I think I know or I experience that I know what it is to look at this screen and see your face yeah that doesn't happen there no but you can't say what does happen there then as far as how well it's just something that isn't happening that doesn't happen but
1:06:25 there's still computer screens and and as Huxley said words coming from nothing and seeing but the sense of awareness there's nothing there at all that can record what's happening nothing here to record what's happening and when you said it was the last thing Jim would have wanted he would have told you it exactly what he wanted and had done anything to get it yeah that was a misunderstanding of what was yeah well in the in the story and I I assume all Stories the idea is that it'll have something to do with me yeah I'll be getting something I'll be yeah but it's not a loss e well it's not
1:07:11 a real loss either not a real loss but you can't tell them either no yeah because it will always sound like a gain or a loss yeah and right now it feels like it would be a loss yeah it's total loss to something toal loss of something that never [Music] happened impossible yeah in every sense well I mean in terms of it's impossible to have any picture or get a reference to what this is about only because every picture is it not because it's mysterious and hidden somewhere but because it's not
1:07:57 separate no but every picture about what it is is coming from the me projecting itself in a better experience that and that picture is also nothing thank you thanks hey Jason hey Jim hello hey hello I have one little thing to say or whatever but uh you know a couple months ago during your meeting I had a glimpse or a glimpse happened or whatever and I wrote to you about that and la la la but it's like since then there's been like so much heartache and heartbreak and about this whole experience of the
1:08:44 separation and it just seems like oh my gosh like how long is this going to go on it's like every day every morning it's like oh this anguish and it's just like oh my gosh yeah so yeah yeah but it's like well I'm still here and kicking and as a me and whatever you know but it's just uh I mean I guess it'll last however however long it lasts right so anyway I'll see you uh in Wisconsin soon I hope if I can make it there but nothing happens okay thanks Jim thank
1:09:34 you hi Dalia hi hi I think I missed the the beginning of the am I am I at what time did you did you start the meeting yeah and I yeah I think a lot of people missed the beginning the time changes and it may have changed there already did so it's was the same difference no it isn't because we changeed tomorrow or tonight oh okay yeah that's why yeah so I think a lot of people kind of missed it yes your up time anyway um I would just wanted to describe something I have noticed um it's that
1:10:23 when there is a sense of U anything feeling real it feels uh as the it has a charge I could call the he location in the body so anything that feels real even the world and me there is a located uh energy or um or an anger that feels re real versus when there was no one when there is no one when there is no one okay uh just there's no feeling of heess but not only here and the anger the anger is really wrapped with a with a charge of located as in or in the body
1:11:08 by the way not as the body but the me is is I um the me in as the body is really a located sense very very intense I would say very palpable uh in this here I mean as when you address here uh this is really what really struck me lately anything and it doesn't matter by the way it doesn't make any difference and when it is seen it has no preference at all even though it's going on still I mean seemingly and uh it's very weird to notice that here is very palpable I just wanted to have your maybe your sh point of view about it or
1:11:55 the the how strange it is or how pable yeah so for me in the story of Jim there was no no idea what it was I I would have not been able to say what you're saying but I but I think you you you didn't have any like no one yeah yeah maybe well it doesn't matter at all but it's very weird because uh even uh when it is so so when it is seen very clearly it doesn't really make any difference nothing does funny enough you know as as as as I think it's been seen there that even there being no one doesn't make any
1:12:40 difference no but yeah well as as as as even I think I I feel like there's a me relating and you know having feelings and thoughts um the funny thing is when the is very located it does it's so it's palpable it's really some something really feels real and there's no more oh it shouldn't be there anymore you know no nice well I yeah it's more the fight seems less well less rude I would say but it's I just wanted to describe something maybe yeah thank accurate at all yeah
1:13:27 yeah thanks Talia hi Martin how do you personally experience an embody [Laughter] nality are you joking no I'm I'm serious uh to to experience something there has to be it has to be separate but is there a separation in the not separation no there is no
1:14:15 separation all right thanks thanks hi David hi um just to follow up on that question uh and the question about sushi and the enjoyment of sushi um uh maybe make it a bit more concrete what he just asked um I'll do uh uh I don't know the word to describe you uh how does this uh appreciate Sushi uh choose to go for sushi so on
1:15:00 and so forth yeah so there isn't there are preferences there's just conditioning in the body you know in genetics so that still happens but there already isn't a Chooser there there's just choice but there isn't anyone that does that thanks David
1:16:24 hey David I just to follow up so then the the choice that happens without a Chooser is the mystery yeah you call it mystery okay makes it a little it makes it a little woo woo mystery because it's just it's just this it's just nothing appearing as Choice it's simple yeah is someone coming out of 12-step recovery uh recovering uh drunk um yeah thy will be done so to speak uh which is not oh but there is no thy right exactly exactly and there is no will right it's just the choice it's just the choice that's happening just it's just done
1:17:09 it's just done okay yeah and only and only apparently it doesn't really really happens yeah and I think that's what scares the eye that's me uh that that it's just happening that there's a mystery um and to just like somebody said earlier freef fall into it's like jumping out of a plane um yeah but it actually isn't like jumping out of a p plane it's and it's not a recognition but it's the recognition there never was a plane no one was ever in a plane right there's no plane and there's no one which gives me actually the trust that I'm I'm I'm so grasping after but uh yeah yeah there isn't enough trust there is enough time to
1:17:58 trust it's already happened it's already done yeah yes yes it is yes it is thank you thanks man hi Martin hi dream what is the origin of the sense of Separation uh it comes nothing really it's just nothing and what role does the ego play in the nity ego it's what you mean by ego but if you mean it's a sense of Separation then then it's the sense that that there's a person that's separate from everything
1:18:46 else thank you all right thanks Martin thanks folks um just to just to say a couple words in going that um I we probably said it in the meeting but it isn't it isn't there isn't really a message it isn't really about becoming anything at all it is impossible to share through words themselves what we're talking about but it isn't it isn't somewhere else it isn't something to find it isn't something that's been lost it's this is already whole and
1:19:33 complete it's not conditional on any particular way of being what's longed for is already everything there isn't anything that could happen that could bring about a more whole or complete completeness it's it's done so everything that happens apparently is that wholeness is is this holess is this completeness thanks folks
