0:05 hi folks good morning so I'll give a a short introduction sort of just covering um the basics so in essence the the theme of what we're talking about that there isn't actually anything to say there isn't anything that needs to be said it's not this isn't about changing this there's there seems to be two perspectives one the one that where there's nothing to be said nothing needs
0:51 to be said because this is already I got to take out my earphon this is already um perfect not perfect in the way not perfect for someone it it'll never be perfect or not for any sort of length of time for a person but it's a Perfection that is is not confined to understanding actually everything we will be talking about today isn't in the end isn't defined or or
1:39 limited to understanding there's a and within this this Perfection there arises a sense that understanding is the currency the only value to to what's happening a necessary a need to understand what's happening it's a it's a a sense of control a sense of of being the one with valtion the one who's going to make things happen a need a need to do that a need to make this which is already perfect but as it's not a Perfection that can be
2:25 understood this sense of being a person feels like it's up to it to make it that way the the problem is that that sense of being a person and that need to make this perfect necessarily ignores the Perfection that is already so it tries to create a separate reality of perfection which is a a hopeless task really because it lives in a dualistic reality one of competing emotions and thoughts and ideas that just never stay still long
3:13 enough to be a constant Perfection and all of that happens within what is already perfect that separate sense the sense of being a person and the Perfection it's looking for is is a personal Perfection a Perfection of the way things I think it should be so every separate person has a story about what this appearance is about a personal story and so all those personal stories
4:00 are competing with every other personal story about what this appearance is about and in the end like I said in the beginning there isn't any need to say anything because it is already whole so that personal story will always fail in trying to bring about what is already M all righty so that's the introduction hi Karina okay I muted hi hi um thanks for having this I I seem to
4:48 be stuck on the idea that this hasn't happened yet so okay bear with me I I know there's nobody here to do anything anything or not do anything but it seems like this okay the solusion is still here and the solution the illusion the illus the illusion yeah the illusion of their appearance is still here yeah so there is something that is saying it hasn't happened yet yeah usion to drop yeah and the question is that you always say nothing really happens yeah how can you
5:33 say that and that includes the end of the illusion but there is a before it doesn't really happen there isn't any one for the end of the illusion to happen too it's only in that dream of things really happening does anything seem to really happen and so the idea for the individual is that the individual would really drop or something would really happen it doesn't there isn't in the end there isn't actually an individual to drop so wasn't there a before and after uh in a in the in the time there's an apparent there's an apparent before and after
6:19 breakfast but that's just apparent before and after breakfast it's just nothing appearing as before and after breakfast nothing actually happened the idea that it hasn't happened yet is a dream is the same dream as there is someone or that it will happen it is believed in because of the feeling and the sense and the bodily feeling of the separation yeah that's right well the senses that things really happen and one of the fundamental senses of being separate is that something has to happen that we're talking about something really happening that
7:04 something really happened to Jim and so something could really happen to Katarina and it doesn't but there there's okay to stop believing that it hasn't happened or to it doesn't matter which Bel individual the individual holds on to itself it's all part of that separate illusory sense it it um is it a hindrance though like no absolutely not there isn't there isn't any goal that's all that's also part of the illusion that the end of the individual is a goal it's part of the dream of the individual of the person trying to find
7:52 perfection yeah trying to have what you have what you don't as as if there was someone here that had something and all I'm saying is there isn't anyone here that has anything and there isn't anyone anywhere that has anything there isn't anyone to have anything and there isn't anything to have the whole appear the whole appearance is insubstantial instantaneous yeah but but that because that is not the way things are viewed from here uh I feel you know things are real and uh because there is the sense of me I would very much like to disappear and see things like oh you wouldn't oh you wouldn't yeah but isn't that semantics like okay I will no no it
8:39 isn't semantics it's because the individual can only imagine a continuation of itself and we're talking about the end of it it can't want the end of it it isn't already nothing has to happen for there to be no individual yeah yeah but the individual wants something for itself which is a Continuum a continuation of its want in in this meeting I've been talking about perfection so it's looking for a Perfection for itself and wanting to end it is the idea that that's where a Perfection for itself will be found the problem for
9:25 that person is that everything that's happening is already that perfection even the sense of Separation in looking for something is perfection there just isn't anything else what's longed for isn't to be found in the separate reality it isn't to be found it's actually the end of seeking not as a conclusion but as that there never was anything to be sought never was anything separate it's just this it's already just this is always sending me into looking around and saying okay I have to be happy with this thing now I know this is misleading in the sense that it I think to the person it
10:10 sounds like a now yeah right now everything is fastic and I should be happy with everything here yeah that's right and what's missed is that it's nothing so so I'm actually trying to find a better and a different experience from what I'm having Yeah a different one like being on some kind of a drug for example it's the same thing but yeah but I'm still there yeah yeah okay okay okay thank you all right thanks hi Suma hello Jim hi just confirming that you're still not there there's no
11:01 um I guess how would I phrase this question I mean does it become lighter I know there is no comparison but everything else around seems too heavy like I'm not able to listen to people when they go on possibly for like am I going to get slower is the question I mean is that going to get slower yes because I can't pay attention it seems too much why are they worried about these things that people worry about the me worries about their are no people yeah um that what we're talking about is just simply not about you then what are we talking about what have we been talking about that the that
11:47 that you is an illusion hiding that this is already perfect yeah but I didn't chose it I know I've told you this before there isn't there isn't a you so I have no say the the day I I'll not be there I'll not there I'll not be there to see it although I'm not there already that's right that just seems mindboggling there's no way I can ever get there and I so badly want to get there well you can't get there because there isn't any there it's all this there isn't it's not separate that's a damn good illusion I don't know who created what created I don't know what this is but this just is every time I think I'm closer possibly
12:33 and POS apparently I'm not no of course not there isn't a closer to everything okay this last question is U I'm not sure how I'm going to phrase it let's say you were listening I mean when there was a Jim there and Jim was listening to Tony did it ever cross your mind that maybe Tony had a very perceptual like a unique experience and maybe it's not true for everyone is that D playing all sorts of ideas okay yeah of course you're sure there's nobody there well there isn't anyone anywhere okay that doesn't help does it I'm still
13:18 hearing meeting no I'm afraid I'm afraid this meeting won't help you oh wow all right Jim thank you so much take care bye thank you after that thanks Suma hi moan hi Jim oh you remember me you remember me from the Tennessee Retreat oh right yeah hi yeah yeah right well um I don't know how to say this but ever since I came back my life is the apparent life or what ever you want to call it is is not the same I'm ask I'm lot more conf I'm more
14:07 confused you know but you did have a lot of beliefs going on there about well apparently right and I I used to meditate I I felt that the Apparently I was in a in a nice State it's so-called good guy I was doing yoga and now I don't feel like doing anything it's just hopeless you know as you said it's just the whole thing you know it's a it's a great mind that you did for four days for me so so so there's a lot of Despair there is hopelessness yeah uneasiness and uh and the me keeps popping up it never goes away no matter you know it's just there so so I'm kind of aware of that also so
14:53 but still and I know this this meeting is not going to help me but I thought I'll just you know log in and see you so maybe I don't know part of me um is looking forward to next year's Retreat that's the thing is still there only part of you is looking forward to it right AB yeah no it can be really it can be quite disorienting right and and disconcerting if if there was a strong system of beliefs that I mean this message can undermine a lot of that if there's an openness the ideas one has about about you know the the purpose and meaning
15:40 to right which there isn't any doesn't mean there is an opening for me the apponent me do the obviously obviously okay okay otherwise otherwise I mean the the what we talk about would have would have absolutely no effect if there wasn't open do it just be summly rejected as nonsense right right right yeah but also you know some of the the so-called beliefs it's not quite beliefs they do kind of make sense uh uh you know some of the the sayings in the punishs you know it's just that they they still feel that you know by doing something you can you can achieve that or get rid of the eye or recognize the
16:26 eye in in you so the soal you can read a lot of those things differently for me a lot of that a lot of those spiritual texts are actually there confirming they're not an imperative telling you something right but they if you read them differently they actually confirm yeah that there is and what what you say your your the message that you Tony and Andreas you know it's quite radical uh the same message what rames Bal says is it's uh it's all God's will it's kind of they use that word God's will so I don't know what to make out of that I know it's a different way of softening the same thing I guess I don't know so
17:12 in a way it does soften it but this isn't about God yes I know yeah right yeah it's just letting go of your belief system no it's not about letting go it's not there isn't anything that could happen the whole idea of Letting Go comes from the personal sense that something needs to happen well that's where you know you tend to escape the escapism fatalism comes in so that's where I think there's a balance yeah totally well it's still just a personal a personal sense that there's something that needs to happen for this to be perfect right yeah okay anyway so I know there's no hope so just thought I will just say hi to you yeah thanks man good to see you yeah we'll come and see you sometime okay okay bye bye
18:03 hi Susan hi again yeah I have a question about when you see comparing before falling uh of me uh comparing your attitude to violence child abuse yeah these idea these things that we can see there is in the world what were your views uh on this person for the person that lives in a world that where of of value of good and bad and right and wrong it's all part of its story about how it's going to find perfection yeah yeah but can you remember can you remember don't don't
18:49 arise now that there's a value to what is yeah that's not it's just not needed but before the what were the reactions was has a value sees a value in everything it's sort of the currency like experience that that it feels is going to help it find or know Perfection but of course meaning and purpose are are part of the story which hides the Perfection of what is already yeah and no matter for example understanding these idea of nality and having can't understand you can understand the idea of it but that's not
19:34 what it is it's not an idea it's not a concept yeah yeah I mean I I'm trying to apply it oh dear good luck to my life I have some ideas about what to do uh to make my children's contraction less yeah there are ideas but there aren't anybody's ideas is and no matter what is going to be done they will have this contraction anyway so or not and for example being having uh this uh temperament yeah temper of neurotic it is it does it mean that the
20:21 me is stronger than uh people who are calmer who are softer probably can be yeah yeah and can it be genetics or it is just more no it's not genetics it doesn't come from the body really it appears in the body but it doesn't come from the body so it is connected with this contracted yeah idea yes contracted energy which which which shows up as it shows up yeah okay and uh that's surrounding people do in people uh recognize any difference when communicating with you before and after do you have any yeah there were a few
21:07 that noticed that there was a relaxation relaxation can see yeah thanks all right thanks Susan goodby hi JC hi Jim hi uh wanted to express some gratitude first for the message and tell how much it it seems to resonate here very strongly like physically yeah like piercing like I feel like a strainer or something yeah hes uh where many
21:54 holes uh yeah I wanted to uh to say also how much I'm blown away by this what what I call the the magic of let's say radical nity the the message which is uh uh whether whether there is the illusion of the individual at play or not uh it's the same it's yeah there's there's only Liberation right or Freedom whatever yeah so it's yeah I have no words I have no questions because it's just it's just blown away by that no let's all right well thanks
22:41 Jon there is it's like there is there is a there is the the the feeling here of uh uh it's like the almost a dream of being a person it's like it is not not so solid it's not very solid it's just like it is felt okay I more or less sense I am JC somehow but uh I I know there is the knowing or knowing you don't like that so much there is the I sense there is the sense that is not it's it's not the case there sense of Freedom it's like it's like a mixture it's like yeah but
23:28 the let's say trust is there or resonance is there or uh even somehow ease is there and it's very it's very weird but uh it's very big yeah so anyway uh yeah it's it's like I heard you say once in a in in a previous Zoom you were saying uh it's it's the the ult part for the individual would be to to to deal with that even even if there's the sense of an individual or not it's the same yeah of course if we consider it strictly speaking from the standpoint of
24:14 the So-Cal individual that yes then it's it's very strange it's very hard to deal with but I have the feeling there is the feeling here the sense that my the position here is the center is is a little bit lose see it's like like it's like a lose Center some not like a solid Center and trying it's like lose so let's I don't know it's like just the state of things now yeah anyway there's huge uh gratitude in with the message with yeah great thanks JC thanks to you jene thank you very thanks
25:01 hi Alan hi Jim hi thanks also for being here uh I wanted to ask uh uh about the story of a life the dreamlike existence that uh uh we talk about um yeah but it's an illusion right it's just nothing appearing as a story it doesn't make any difference and then we talk about a glimpse uh which can can only happen within the story of a life it doesn't really happen no it and it's such an itty bitty word I was kind of curious that that can
25:47 some glimpses be fireworks uh yeah very energetic or yeah generally what I would call an Awakening would be sort of firework because it's so it's such a radical depart from what the personal story is so a better word is an Awakening uh well no from just I mean just conceptually as terminology the initial the initial um sort of Glimpse I would call an Awakening which is often more dramatic because there's the individual there's no chinks in the chain mail at that point and then an Awakening can happen which which shows that the entire
26:34 thing is an illusion there isn't anyone and that can be quite that can be really dramatic after that it doesn't seem to be so dramatic and the end of the end of the story doesn't even actually happen it's not it's not an event to be recognized because there isn't anyone to know right so that there there's a can be like a return turn to name and form and and phenomenal generally that seems to be this how it goes yeah okay cool thanks that that kind of clarifies things thank you cool thanks hey
27:24 arief hi Jim hi hey you yeah thanks you good good uh have been having a very hot summer here Indiana so but yeah I don't think I have any questions I was thinking I might be having but what questions who what so so yeah it's nice it's nice to see you and yeah good to see you you know yeah yeah yeah yeah just there is no relevance to questions really in that sense no well there isn't any relevance to anything yeah yeah I I mean in in terms of trying to identify
28:11 or you know investigate in this sense of course there might be relevance to questions like what's happening around the corner what what's cooking or what I need to do what do I need to get from the shop or things like that yeah yeah I don't know so good good to see you take care you too take care thanks hi Shear hello Shear Earth to Shear there you hear me
28:58 yeah yeah very good hi J hi hi I really I have no no no question it's so strange you know thousand question but yet I I know that it's up to question so it's gone you know somehow yeah and then I ask you about the about the when you say often that the thing disappear or fall away but I think when the when
29:45 everything is is is so it cannot just disappear because it have to be as as the thing is I'm not sure what you you mean exactly but there isn't a me to fall away or disappear it's an illusion yes but okay there is no me to fall away but yet you do talk about me yeah yeah that's a kind of that what this whole meeting is a as a response to that illusory sense of Separation which makes it seem like there there are questions and there need to be answers yes but I
30:32 mean the mentally I mean mentally or whatever it is it cannot be something else than is no that's true yeah so you know when mentally I can see that there's no one is talking and yeah that's not but that's not the same yes but I mean you know the hearing I hear it's it's not which hearing you know it's hearing yeah it's just hearing you know that's true y yeah it's actually nothing hearing yeah and and also seeing you know there is there is actually in seeing is a blind he cannot see but I don't know how on the brain yeah it's just nothing seeing
31:18 yeah it happen it's really happen sometime that they're just seeing that I don't no one has been to see you know yeah yeah yeah okay I have no no question thanks a lot thank you just nice to see you and you too always good to see you thank you bye hi Kathy oh hi Jim hi hi oh this Prof ction will never be known no it's never going to be known no
32:06 there's no real value in knowing things in that way not the way the me feels like there should be or is I know but it's like it's like imagination Perfection you understand sometimes the imagination you try to find the perfection even in the most heinous crime because that's what the me does but it's not hidden I know where is it is it it's only it's hidden to that separate sense that it's hidden it feels like it's hidden I'm trying to feel it for the me it feels like it's hidden for the person it does it feels
32:51 hidden so it goes searching everywhere trying to pick up it's undifferentiated actually and how it search through searches through everything feelings and thoughts apparent objects searches through all of those things looking for something and that's looking for itself it well it's not looking for itself it's looking for PE uh Perfection or whatever it considers to be the answer which can't be found no because it's already talking [Laughter] oh it's so we it's just I I don't know it's unnerving in a way yeah it's just
33:37 unnerving but it's it's nothing yeah it's nothing that's what this is it's just it's nothing EMP emptiness or absence speaking and hearing it's just empty it's empty yeah I I always ask the same questions though it's empty but like uh when the me is there it's not empty because the Mi is creating those trees oh no it's still empty even when the Mi is create is projecting oh absolutely there is only emptiness appearing I don't know how you can say that no I don't either it's not about
34:23 knowing I always come up with the same answer it's not funny no it's not okay thank you Jim thanks Kathy hey Jim hey uh hey I thought I was just going to say hello but then I do have a question after all so earlier in this meeting you said something like uh the contracted energy doesn't come from the body it's but arises in the body yeah it's like where
35:10 where would it come from nothing same as everything else yeah like everything like yeah yeah like where does the body come from that's right yeah ah I knew see I knew that was going to be the words yep yeah yeah but it does it does seems strange though that it's it it seems to be only in the humans you know the the apparent human species or whatever has this kind of Affliction yeah yeah but that's just also arising out of nothing so yeah yeah I guess I'm looking for like a cause because if I could find the cause you know I could dig it out somehow that's right yeah yeah you're trying to find a cause to something that's not
35:56 really happening that's a lot of digging it is I'm gonna be digging for hole in the air I'm good at that I'm good at that how would you even know if you were done digging a hole in the air I guess when I got tired enough I'd be like okay I'm done with that I don't know yeah and then you go to digging a hole in the ocean well that didn't work maybe the ocean is better yeah I'm GNA I'm gonna go try that after the meeting I'll go run down to the ocean start digging see what I find okay thank you thanks good to see
36:45 you you too hi Moira um can you hear me yeah right well I a got a question it's just that um you said something at the beginning more or less a little while quite early on and it was very clear the way you said it about how we're looking for what we're looking for in the wrong place because with that's already perfect that was along those lines and it was very clear so I was wondering just whether there was any chance this would be put on um this
37:32 video would go on YouTube cuz so I could hear those executive decisions are above my pay grade I don't know okay right well that was just that seemed I don't know I like I latched on to that thinking that was really good that was really clear and I'd like to be able to go back to that but yeah so I thought I'd ask you anyhow okay well thank you yeah that was about looking for we're looking for and it's already there it's already perfect and we're looking for something personal yeah yeah personal Perfection yeah but this thing what Kathy said about or you said that just now about it seems to be hidden that seems to be quite a big problem that it seems to be
38:19 hidden quite a desperate problem yeah yeah it does that's that is the problem it seems to be but it seemed to me what you said made it clear that that it's not hidden no but then I go back to feeling that it is and or something seems to yeah but that feeling it is is still nothing it's still Perfection so it can't be hidden then that's right right but something what's this thing that convinces you that it is I mean it's the sense that that that the appearance is an objectified reality it seems hell bent on convincing you that
39:05 it's hidden and you got to find something and that's L yeah yeah that's that's sort of all the the whole meeting is that there's a conviction or a sense that what's longed for is hidden and the response is it's not it's an illusion that there's a real objectified reality that there's an IND a person in the middle of a lot of different things hides that there is actually just nothing appearing a belief that a per that the person is there hi yeah well it's not a belief but not just a belief that's an
39:52 energetic yeah it is thing that comes from nowhere but feels real yeah sorry without necessarily being recognized but is kind of there yeah well I know all about that but um okay well I was just wondering whether there was any hope of sort of um getting you to put it on YouTube okay is which one was that well for this this one oh this one right okay this this video right okay yeah okay all right thanks Moira all right okay I don't unmute me and all this I can do it it's done yeah hi Zoom
40:42 user oh hello hello I am Agnes from apparently from Romania near H hi Agnes from Romania oh oh such a joy seeing you and uh and um talking to you and being here and I have a question um uh that uh what um uh do you think about um that there can be somehow a Vanishing of the or disappearing the identities somehow and there still can remain a a center which claims something um it's it's just um a a question oh right well there wouldn't
41:28 be a center that claims something that is the person but there can still be a contracted energy or apparently a contracted energy there just isn't anyone left to believe that that means anything uhuh so that that contracted can remain there somehow energetically yeah yeahuh this can be in the story of course apparently somehow uh Happening by um of course there's no before and after but so em somehow emotional happens or oh it's not it doesn't it's not not it's not an emotion the contracted energy isn't an emotion uhhuh uhhuh okay thank you very much and thank you again for being here thank
42:19 you hi Hank uh hello Jim uh thanks for this meeting um I like to refer to what you just said uh contracted energy isn't an emotion no what is it what is it then just contracted energy no thoughts no emotions uh no no it doesn't have any of that it's just an appearance just like a chair just like a chair I don't yeah oh okay I have to
43:05 think about this uh okay thank you thank you yeah thanks okay hello CI hi can you hear me Jim I can yeah hi hello nice to meet you again um I was I was wondering something about can there be this kind of some kind of loosening because I seem to be uh not uh like all the self development stuff I used to be into and I still kind of do there uh again there is sometimes this excitement but then it's it goes down so
43:51 it's like it it it doesn't stay like like it used to yeah it doesn't have the same energy anymore yeah yeah and uh also I was I was listening you said something about to the other person that um or or other no one you said about the traumatic uh Awakening that can happen and and that's what happened here when I first heard this message couple of years ago that was very dramatic I was thinking I'm I'm dying and yeah I was in this fear State and I I used to listen to your uh these meetings 247 and uh and it was very
44:38 dramatic but after that uh then uh I started to somehow lose interest to this message but I still watch these meetings and uh I don't know what's happening because nothing happened yeah yeah so uh is it is it like uh is it supposed to go like this uh well I mean it does go like that apparently sometimes but there isn't any supposed to there isn't anyone there there isn't a there isn't act the individual is is um the person is addicted to
45:25 process it feels like there's process to everything an eventuality to everything and that the end of the me is going to be another event in its eventuality story and there there just isn't there isn't an actual process to anything yeah some something kind of gets that because I'm not of course I can't uh I can't go into that no you can't you know linear development stuff anymore it's just yeah exactly yeah okay yeah thank you thank
46:16 you hey AR hey again Jim hi uh over the past few minutes after we spoke uh uh like I said there was no question at the time just just went like that but there is a restlessness yeah I still don't have a real question there is no question but there is a restlessness yeah so the question is how do I get rid of the restlessness so that's the question I mean I I was yeah what do I do about restlessness there's no nothing do about it I'm just sitting restlessness I guess [Music]
47:02 I yeah just just just want to get out something you know yeah yeah an answer the me that person can't help but look for something else d there's this this is inquiring thing that just keeps pushing through so I was I was focusing on the other your conversations with the others other speakers as well nothing was going in through it was just like just we so that's why I just came I don't know I don't [Music] know I I I GNA ask what do I do but
47:49 there's no point no there there's no point in asking what you can what you should do yeah but there's no point in not asking either yeah yeah I just sit with it I guess that's that's all there's no one to sit with it yeah if there's something needs to come out it will let it well there isn't anything that needs to come out yeah there is no there is no Center to ask for an agenda as well yeah what a mind yeah it's absolutely uh I don't
48:34 know yeah I don't know it's an interesting state I'm in right now so um like I said there's no clear inquiry or anything but just wanted to transmit that thank you yeah thanks Arie thank you did you hear me yeah I can hear you yeah okay did you hear my question I didn't no oh sorry okay so I started again okay hi Jim hi I have a question uh the question is if there's no sense of a me anymore um can there be a resistance or Rea reactiveness to the contracted energy of uh another person where this the sense of a me is still playing out
49:20 well well it wouldn't be to the contracted energy but some people are yeah they're can be not necessarily a resistance to others but there's an attraction or not an attraction to others that that still comes up yeah and when it's being expressed like this then uh probably some residue is still left I don't know what that means yeah I mean like you said there can be the sense um then there's no sense of me anymore but still a contraction in the body yeah yeah so this can interact and with each other probably well it's just like there's a hand apparently
50:06 interacts I it's just it's just an appearance it doesn't have an effect not in the same way as when there's a me a person that feels like that has a meaning or purpose I see thank you very much all right thanks hi Alan uh uh just a quick question is there uh could you say there's just one dream yes
50:52 okay yeah the individual the person the person never sees anything but itself thanks yeah thanks how are you yeah thanks you good good uh I have a question when you mentioned that meaning and purpose covers up the perfection of what is yeah so then it just something click so that's mean the meaning and purpose it's a story yeah so it just floating around
51:40 yeah like just floating and yeah covering this what it's already perfect yeah just daone on me I heard that so many times you know what with hovering over you know like I don't know but this is a story so the end so it's nothing really like the me you said there is no disappearance of me it's probably the ending of the story yeah but there already isn't a story excuse me everything there already isn't a story I if it's it's a it's a it's a self
52:26 confirming self-contained reality okay it's an illusion that appears and and there isn't anything to know that it's gone so it's an illusion the story everything yeah just it's already not there oh my God this is horri this is something the the value that we give like the me gives to everything and the yeah purpose and meaning and and needing you know the need oh my gosh this really horrible yeah that's but the pro the contracted energy is Just Energy Contracting it's nothing happening yeah
53:14 totally so it's just something arising that's it yeah that's it but then the the the illusory me say oh that's my energy yeah that's for ex oh that's how fear arises so it's yeah yeah yeah it's a story again the illus uh but this is really nothing happening yeah yeah just some storm inside appearing or or yeah totally treasure whatever okay we need to talk more about it so I will call you sometime okay thank you thanks Ina hi Kathy hey
54:03 hey um the appearance isn't real is it the appearance it's it's neither real nor unreal it's nothing it is it is nothing it's nothing yeah this conversation or the computer screen is nothing appearing yeah yeah as a computer screen right okay as the right now this yeah you're appearing on my phone yeah um the appearance is the veil no no the sense it's it's actually the sense that there's a person looking at
54:53 the phone that's the Veil because there isn't a person looking at the phone there's just looking nothing looking and nothing phoning it's not separate the person is the veil okay the person okay but the me here can't imagine the appearance without a person no no because the only one that's still a person no it's too simple to imagine it's not simple oh it is it's too simple it's too
55:38 simple to get come on J we say this for how many years and I can hey okay there's no gym there is no gym there there's no Kathy there's no gym let's just go with no gy gy functions within the appearance if there's no gy how does gy function there's just functioning it's same there feels but but my you know you know how it feels
56:26 do I know how it feels I'm asking how does it feel there I don't I know what it feels like here yeah unfortunately so there isn't anyone that knows what it feels like there there are feelings but there isn't anyone that knows them you see if there's a me here and the computer screen is appearing and Jim is appearing what's appearing over there on that side yeah see the individual no sides for the for the person the appearance has value and so the difference in the appearances would also seem to have value it's just
57:12 that that undifferentiated something eless it has to be somewhere that I can find it but it's already what's looking hearing I know yeah hand hand telephoning just just and and it's not separate that's what me can't that's what the person can't get something else is saying that it's separate and it is for isn't separate it's not separ there's no separation here there's no separation right there's no separation you can't say here there's no separation I know I can't say here because that would be separation but there's just okay yeah
57:58 it sounds so cool and so wonderful no but it's it's it's simple it's simpler than cool and wonderful it sounds so wonderful and cool I don't know it's just you know okay thank you Jim thanks Kath hey Ben hi Jim forward to your uh visit to California next month yay yeah gonna be fun yeah so I have a question uh after
58:43 hearing this message for quite some time it's pretty clear that all my questions are really futile and uh that constant inner battle that goes on of resisting what's happening you know Push Pull not accepting what's going on it all it's all very futile and it's just uh you know frustratingly futile because it just continues to happen and it leads to nothing that's seen very clearly so it seems that sometimes you know I I'll obviously I'll tell myself well that inner battle that tension the resistance is futile so just relax let go relax and sometimes relaxation happen
59:28 it seems there's a letting go and a relaxation and then of course it seems like I did that I chose to do that so I made that happen and it really feels like it was me that did that yeah but that's not what's happening no right no none of that actually ever happened not really all there is is what is which is not yeah yeah and sometimes that it's a story that you've been listening to this for so long is a story [Laughter] sure it's a story about you finding it
1:00:15 at some point right right right right yeah I can imagine this is how teachings arise right people feel like they made something happen and now they can yeah well that's the only way there could be a teaching yeah is if there was someone that had the sense of valtion yeah I mean it it seems so real it seems so real that one is doing that yeah but uh yeah nothing happening and it all it's all happening appearing to happen all by itself oh totally even the me even the person happens by itself there
1:01:01 isn't anyone doing it m yeah it's amazing but that little sneaky bugger me can really convince you that it's real and it's doing things and it's well it's not actually convincing anyone there isn't anyone to convince and in the same way that there isn't anyone to know there's a me or not a me it's it's an illusion a dream very persistent [Laughter] one okay thanks Jim all right we'll see
1:01:47 you next month yeah great hi Katarina hi again um just wanted to ask your uh feedback about this latest working well I know latest but working Neuroscience that they they say that the sense of me is a is just a a neural network in the brain yeah yeah created from uh language and facial identity when we know we were babies and yeah that's an explanation that's an explanation so this that's that's great because it stps is about anything mystical and anything yeah just
1:02:35 yeah there isn't actually an explanation for this yeah that's still that's just that's just the appearance explaining the appearance to itself yeah yeah okay okay it makes you feel better to have an answer yeah yes yeah and also to know that you know um this network is there and if it goes away it goes away on its own but so but that's not then an illusion it's actually something that is in the appearance oh yeah absolutely yeah the effects of the illusion can be seen in the appearance like
1:03:22 Facebook or churches religion spirituality yeah personal development no I think what I mean is that we say that this the sense of self is an illusion yeah if it is actual a neural network that's not an illusion no but what I'm saying is that's an explanation it's an effect obviously the arising of a separate sense has an effect on the brain and so the there's an explanation okay it doesn't come from the brain it has an effect on the brain yes okay of course okay I get it
1:04:07 thank you okay all right thanks thanks hi Agnes he Jim again um hi again just made me curious what you said about this uh that there can be still contraction in the body even if there's no sense of a me anymore that's the first time I'm hearing from that but that resonates a lot can you maybe say a bit more about that um but what is can appear as anything and it's never personal
1:04:52 yeah okay thanks you thank you Hi C hi just one more quick question I was thinking about the playing along with the story do you still or does someone still play along with the story even you even even if you understand or there's no understanding but there's no believe belief in the story but I mean that for example if I go to therapy I can play along I can I can see this this is just
1:05:38 a story but yeah just for fun because there's so so much time to but there there isn't a story here there just isn't a story there's no story anymore no there's no story so that sort of things don't happen no anymore no so there's no playing with it because there isn't and there isn't anyone actually in the dream to play with the story that's just another story there isn't an individual who has a story the individual is the story
1:06:26 so there's not any kinds of acting anymore no but no boredom either oh there are boring things but there isn't anyone that gets bored okay thanks thank you hi Mor Moira yeah I can hear you can you hear me now yeah okay well I picked up on the thing about um there being a contraction still with no sense of self yeah you're just saying that's not taken
1:07:13 personally anymore but yeah the contraction that leave which is the main thing that seem to people seems to be talked about which is kind of like in every cell without that you even noticing it which creates the seeking that's not the contraction you're talking about oh it is it's out of that out of that comes the sense of being a person yeah but when when you said the sense of self can leave and there's still a contraction people have been talking about that that you're not talking about that I am so that can still be there when there's no sense of self yeah said that was what created the sense of self well it's it does NE not necessarily obvious ly but the sense of self can come out of the
1:07:59 contraction so how can there be no sense of self and still that contraction then well that's just the way it is that's got me got me confused but oh God yeah I don't know I don't know where I'm going with this um yeah I just got this idea there's like this initial contraction that is the one that creates all the seeking well it's not the contraction that does it it's the the sense of self it it is the sense of s the sense of being a person which comes out of the contraction it comes out of it that's right but so then how can there be no sense of self and still the contraction I thought that it just isn't it just doesn't happen there is no contraction then when
1:08:45 when there's no sense of sell oh well there's an there might be an apparent contraction it's not the contraction that's the um where the illusion comes from that's what talking about the illusion is the sense of being a person the contraction is just a contraction just an appearance I've got IDE there's the contraction that causes the sense of self yeah well it comes out of it it's not the cause of the sense of self obviously but it comes out of it it gives a sense of heess a sense of realness so how is the sense of self disappears how can there still be contraction if the if the sense of self
1:09:31 come out of that contraction it's just a contraction without the sense of self right okay I don't know what I mean I'm just confused now yeah I'm trying to get it all clear like that there's that contraction which create the sense self yeah then when the sense of self go there can be other types of contractions in the body which aren't NE the one that caused the sense of self yeah but that's not how it is or is it no yeah yeah know what I don't understand
1:10:20 no can you understand what I'm saying oh you I think there there was this idea that the contraction had to go for there to be no sense of being a person and now you're hearing that there might still be a contraction without the sense of being a person and that confuse you confuses you yeah yeah that is is what's happened right but anyhow I got nothing to hold on to here have I no well there just isn't any it I mean that's the dream that there's something to hold on to there already isn't anything else other than everything I mean I get that this is too simple to get because
1:11:07 understanding isn't simple is it I mean no it isn't no it's complicated the me the person loves complication well it do it don't I love it and hate it don't it yeah yeah better to suffer than not to be that's the yeah so one okay okay then thanks okay so in closing let me say that this isn't about learning anything or practicing anything I I I think it's
1:11:54 been made clear that this is already whole it's already not separate it's impossible there just isn't any any any separation anywhere it's already done so that doesn't leave any room for a practice or a a need for a theory or a conceptual um framework for what we're talking about we're talking about what's instantaneously already as Freedom as holess it's already that way thank you very much
