0:06 This is unlimited. It's unbounded. It's unrestricted. It's undefinable. And that undefinable that which can't be known is appearing as a Zoom meeting. It can appear as anything. It can appear as faster than the speed of light. It can appear as bodies, trees, ideas of fantastic realities and even the sense of separation. It's that sense of separation
0:52 about which in a way we'll be talking about today. The sense of separation is literally the cause of all suffering. It's a sense that this is somehow incomplete. That this is that this is intrinsically of need of something and for that sense of separation that need is the need for something to happen. And so even in a meeting like this where it'll be clearly stated that this is already unbounded. It's already free. If there's a sense of separation happening, it will hear that as
1:38 something it can become. It will hear that as something that needs to happen. Now the real trouble for that sense of separation is that sense that something needs to happen is also unbounded freedom unrecognizable freedom. So this meeting isn't about anything happening. It's not about becoming in any way whatsoever. The separate the separate sense the sense of separation the me is convinced it's intrinsic to its experience of separation that what's longed for unboundedness
2:28 freedom has to do with becoming has to do with this becoming something else. And the real trouble for that is that's a demand in time. And there isn't any time for that to happen in everything is already that. Nothing could possibly become it. It's already done. This is more perfect, more complete, more whole, more what's longed for than that individual could ever imagine. Not because of anything.
3:14 It didn't become this. There is no authority. There is no achievement in that sense. When it comes to wholeness, everything is included. Everything is already whole, already complete. >> Hi Moren. >> Hey Jim. Hi. >> Hey. You know how it's said that um nothing ever happened. Uh one thing in the appearance here is that like nothing also ever went anywhere.
4:02 >> Totally. >> Okay. >> Absolutely. [Laughter] >> Thank you. Hey Jordy. >> Hey Jim. >> Hey. >> Hi. >> So you mentioned that the unraveling of traumas can occur when listening to this message. >> Yeah. >> But is that related in any way to the contraction of the me? >> Yeah, it does. When that begins to loosen, what it what happens when there's a sense of separation? Is it in the sense in that in that need to become? It's always tinkering with emotions and
4:48 feelings, making them or feeling as though they're right and wrong and good and bad. And so trauma is just really bad according to the MI. And so it represses it. It holds it down. And when that begins to loosen up, some of that can come up. >> So is that the contraction of the MI? Is that the same thing? It's an effect of the contraction because there isn't actually trauma. It's only traumatic if it's happening to someone >> and the contraction just uh suddenly stops happening. But
5:35 and if the contraction stops happening, does that mean that the traumas unrevel afterwards or how? I don't know. >> Yeah. Well, even if there's a loosening, there can be what's been held in place that can begin to move and come out and be expressed or just disappear. But when there isn't anyone, there isn't anyone. So trauma is a conversation between the emotion or the feelings and the experience of separation. When there isn't anyone, the trauma doesn't have anyone to converse with. So there isn't anyone to hold it in place to give it any sort of reality. >> Yeah. So then it's just there as it is.
6:21 >> Well, actually it's not it's not there in the same way because it's no longer a trauma. It's just a feeling >> for no one. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thanks, >> user. >> How you doing? Sorry, I couldn't uh My name is Wayne. I couldn't work out how to um put my name on. >> Um so, how you doing? So, I just have a question. I had um what you I think called a cat catastrophic was it awakening or you >> well in the sense in the >> it's that any awakening is in a sense a catastrophe because it takes everything >> that seemed to have been real before you
7:07 know the whole structure of the me and turns upside down wipes it out. >> Yeah. Sorry my babies here. So um about 10 years ago or whatever uh with LU the kind of sense of self dropped away. Then I've got involved with just kind of you know the Buddhist better idea where you have then you have to try to get through the shadow side of things like the reactivity and so >> I'm just wondering like would you say then that you know frustration irritation anger it's just just happens like literally do nothing or is there more to >> there this this isn't another path because there isn't anyone to choose
7:52 choose a path. It's there's just what happens for the individual. A path seems to be it seems to make sense because it feels like it's in time on a on a journey of becoming. That is a complete illusion. There isn't anything outside of what is. >> Yeah. >> So there isn't any one. So there isn't any value in feelings or not feeling. The individual feels like if it were detached from things it would be a better experience. Yeah. Well, it seems from listening to you that there is you definitely have no
8:39 there's no kind of sense of a self there and somehow that's happened. Does that >> in a sense it's happened except that the itself is completely illusory. It has no reality outside of itself. So in a sense, yeah, there's been a sense of in the story there was a gym and then there wasn't a gym. But there being no gym is obvious. It was recognized that there never is a gym. There is no Wayne. >> Yeah. because that was seen and then it's as if uh it was kind of it came back or something. >> Oh, totally. Yeah, that's what happens. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And then so you just you keep just kind of looking.
9:24 >> No, I'm serious, man. There isn't anyone to choose. >> Yeah. Yeah. All effort is just a confirmation that someone there's someone there that feels like there's something in un incomplete in what is already. >> Okay. So just finally then just things like frustration it's just frustration arising. >> Oh that's all there is. >> It's all timeless. It's already impersonal timelessness. This >> already. >> Okay. Yeah, nice. >> Thanks. No worries. >> Hi Jim. >> Hi.
10:10 >> Thanks a lot for uh for the meeting. Uh so uh today I was thinking about the question I was going to ask and I have no real question because questions really dropped here and >> on the other hand it it's uh It means a lot. But uh for example, yeah, early I came to meetings like like to a psychologist because I I was expecting some help. >> Yeah. You know, to to get some help. But now I can see that there are no real answers. >> No. Yes. >> Either the questioner questioner dies or not. That's the only because there are no answers. Even Even if I ask you a question, how do you know? How do I know
10:56 that it's the answer? You can give one answer >> another specialist for example psychologist can give and there are a lot of answers that now we can see everywhere. >> Yeah. >> Answers. Yeah. Totally. >> But the frustrating part is that the intellectual understanding doesn't lead anywhere. >> Yeah. So there is nothing to do with this is frustration because intellectually you understand this message but the sense of me doesn't go away and it is just a sense but it is so annoying. >> Yeah. >> That's the question. Yeah. What to do with it? >> That's Yeah. That's just that's the same
11:43 that's the same question as any other question. >> Yeah. Yeah. How do I How do I find a better experience? >> This isn't this is unfulfilling. >> What is >> Yeah. >> That's it. That's it. And another question is the when you say the eye is just a reaction >> but if we even when we understand that there is no eye then whose reaction is it? So again it is this yeah appearing as reaction. What is it? >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. The same. >> Absolutely. >> Just be in the reaction from the contraction. >> The same. It's >> desperate, isn't it?
12:32 >> But but it's really frustrating that only this sense. It's a sense, but it it makes the whole story. Yeah. It's >> so Well, it doesn't make the whole story. It is the whole story. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And everybody everybody has their own sense and the the humanities so-called stories revolves around this sense of me. I have my sense of >> in a sense in a sense there isn't a me only only for the me. >> Does everybody have a separate me? >> Yeah. >> For for there are actually aren't any mis. There are no people. There's just bodies.
13:18 >> Yeah. Thanks a lot. Yeah. >> All right. Thanks, Suzan. >> That's fair. Thanks. Goodbye. >> Hi, Jim. >> Hey, Sher. >> Hi. Do you hear me? Yeah. >> Yeah, I can hear you now. Yeah. >> Yes. Thanks. It's nice to see you, Jim. Um you might think to ask you why according this message knowing or feeling or be a human being it's a illusion. >> Well it's not according to this message. It just that's what's been revealed.
14:04 So do you mean that that is illusion? So this body is illusion. >> No, the only illusion is the sense of separation. The only illusion is that there's an a knower inside the body. That's the illusion. >> Yes. But that's uh that's perfectly logically also. >> Okay. Because because logically when when you go through this body, you will never find me. >> Yeah. >> You know it's it's this body but this body has this is his it own function you see. >> Yeah. Totally. And uh and also in this
14:51 body there's a feeling feeling like uh like any feeling eating, touching, seeing yet it's also logically I think that that this is also not not me. It's seeing or it's feeling or it's it feels like this. I I don't know. >> Yeah. >> It's uh but yet yet there is meaning but even logically you cannot find meaning. >> No. >> So the
15:37 so is the logic is it's a it's an illusion. >> Logic is logic. >> Yeah. Logically, logically you can't get to what we're talking about because logic depends upon knowing and experience. >> Yes. And knowing and an experience is is this that I mean is that illusion is that or that? >> No, it's an appearance. >> It's appearing. Yeah. >> Yeah. No, the only illusion is that there's someone that knows that it's personal. that the appearance is personal. That's the illusion. >> Yes. But this but just keep going, you know.
16:22 >> Well, in this dream of me, there seems to be a continuum in which it exists. That's an illusion. >> So you it it means that there is no not such a thing as as as continue. >> Not really. No, no. >> It's just seemingly is like that. >> Yeah, it can appear that way. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> For the individual, a continuum of experience seems very real. And that's that. So part of that realness or dream is that what's longed for will become revealed in a continuum
17:10 of experience. Whereas there isn't a real continuum for anything to be revealed in. There's just what is. >> It's it's it's like like when you say appearance it's it's means that that there is nothing happening. It's actually everything which is you know I mean which is >> well appearance is just another way of saying what is and isn't. What is is and isn't. It is and it's nothing. >> Yes. And all all there is is this then >> that's right.
17:58 I don't think you laugh. I mean this you know this is this is really sometime is sick you know or some >> you know is I mean the past or or the future it's I mean past is a memory you know it's a memory but even so memory it's like like memory is also a image you know it's >> yeah can be >> yeah And also it's it's I don't know it's future is also it's it's a it's a it's the same image but but they are not somewhere else than this you know
18:44 >> there isn't any there isn't anywhere else. >> Yes. Yes. Thank you very much. Thanks. >> Thanks. >> I love you. Love you, too. >> Hi. >> Hi, >> Jim. Um, I'm I'm Dario, but uh um would you say the dreamer who imagines realities or futures? That is the me. >> Yeah. But it's not it's not so much that it the imagination. It's the sense that
19:32 there is a real past and a real future and a real now. It's a sense that it's a speaking or hearing. It's the sense that it knows what this is. That's the illusion. I'm just saying it from this perspective because the dreaming sometimes feels so real or like it's actually some something which is is actually there or >> Yeah. Well, the dream the dream and the dreamer are the same energy. >> It's the same energy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
20:18 Yeah. Yeah. So the dreamer is the experience that I am in or have a body >> that I am a I am the operator the knower of what is. I am in control. I am real and everything else is real. That's the dream. It sits in in a way you could say it sits in the body as a tension as a contracted energy. >> Would you say it was created or the sense or it just appeared? >> You could say it was I don't know created but not by anyone.
21:08 >> Yeah. It just seems to happen. >> Thanks, Jim. >> Thanks, Dario. >> Hey, Jason. >> Hi. Hi. Hey. >> Hey. Uh, it's funny. You've been showing up in my dreams a lot lately at night, >> man. We're in bed together. That's very exciting. >> Yeah, I know. This last one, we were at
21:55 a music festival and you were dressed up as Robin Hood and you had the hat with the feather and everything. And then we left the festival. We went to your meeting. But your meeting your meeting was in like a Indian rug shop but it was like tiny like this little box and there were like Indian rugs everywhere. I was like well this is a strange one. H >> I don't know but um yeah I don't really have any questions or anything today. I just want to say hi mostly. >> Yeah nice. Uh yeah, I don't know. The seeking continues, you know, but um yeah, I don't know. So that's all I got to say, >> right? >> Yeah. Oh, well remembered. How you
22:40 doing? So um is there anything that the >> no >> non-existing me could do to stop the >> You said no immediately when you knew the question. Well, it's yeah, they're kind of it's kind I understand the sense that this in the experience of the individual this isn't it. So there has to be something that needs to happen. >> Yeah. And because it has the sense of free will and control one of valition which is illusory, it feels like this there has to be something I need to or could do.
23:26 Preferably something really painful and unpleasant because that'll mean I'm getting somewhere like trying to be now. >> Yeah. >> There isn't. It's the whole dream that something is going to happen in the future that's going to bring about wholeness is just is just an illusion. >> But it it does seem to stop for in some cases. >> Oh yeah, it does. That's true. Yeah. >> But there's nothing that that it stops or it doesn't stop. Is that what you're saying? >> Yeah. Exactly. And and and just to be clear, it doesn't actually ever really happen. >> Yeah. >> So it doesn't really stop, >> right?
24:12 And you >> there isn't anyone there to fall away. >> There isn't anyone there that could stop this from being wholeness. >> And there isn't anyone there to realize or to know this is wholeness. Right. So when it seems to stop, it just seems to be going in the first place and then stop. >> Yeah. It it's something something that never happened stops happening, >> right? Okay. So all these techniques you hear about, it's just a way of um preoccupying
24:57 yourself a bit. Yeah, it's entertainment. >> Yeah. So, would you at least recommend maybe like stay >> No. Okay. >> I mean, if you want to say stay present there where there there isn't a presence. None of that makes all of all of the practices and all of the objectives only make sense if there's someone to know them. >> Consciousness only makes sense if there's someone to be conscious. Awareness only makes sense if there's someone to be aware. Now only makes sense if there's someone to be it. Becoming only makes sense if there's real time and someone to become. None of that. There just isn't anyone. >> It's an illusion. All that all that
25:44 happens within the dream of separation. >> Yeah. Why it does seem that I will escape into my thoughts if there's something unpleasant happening. >> Oh, the me is always inevitably looking for more or a better experience. >> So staying say for example staying in the body that you're is that helpful? But what we're talking about, well, as far as having a better experience sometimes, >> um, but what we're talking about isn't isn't located in the body, >> right? >> It isn't located anywhere. It's everything. >> Yeah.
26:33 >> Just seeing the futility. Not that there's anyone to see it, but yeah. Okay. I I'll I'll leave it there. >> Okay. Thanks, Wayne. >> Thanks. Cheers. >> Hi, Emily. >> Hello. >> Thanks for doing this. >> Yeah. >> Um, there were two things I wanted you to talk more about. The first one is you said earlier, um, there are no people, only bodies. And I I think um
27:19 I guess could you say more about that? >> Yeah, there's no you. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> This is just a body. >> It's it's a body. Yeah. >> And a computer screen. And >> Right. >> Everything is what it is for the individual. Because it is a subject, everything appears to be an object and it appears solid and separate and real in the same way that the eye feels it's solid. And in some way that's a denaturing of this. It it's it what what's then hidden to
28:06 the individual is the complete fullness of everything. >> Um the other thing I wanted to ask about or ask you to say more about is time. This is really >> Oh, there just isn't any. >> Say again. >> There just isn't any. >> It's so convincing and persistent though. >> Oh, in the same Well, to the individual, the individual is
28:53 very convinced that it's real. The same conviction and it's not even a conviction because it's not a mental activity. The same sense that I am real is the sense that time's real. It's exactly the same and it's the same that um the computer is real. It's all the same energy of realness. Elusory. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thanks.
29:40 >> Hi, Max. >> Hey, Jim. >> Um, so what's happening now in this body is this really crazy back and forth of, you know, don't try, don't do anything. Oh, wait. You can't try not to do anything. So, don't try not to try. Oh, wait. Maybe I should go watch more videos of Jim and it will some, you know, something will click. Oh, wait. There's no me to do it. >> And I guess it's it's very painful process, but that's just >> I guess how it is. There's there's no one to to alter the process. >> That's just what is. >> Yeah. There's also this longing. Um, I mean, you've talked a little bit, Tony Parsons has talked a little bit more in depth about
30:27 what what exists after. There's this there's this longing, I guess, for the self to figure out if the self goes away, what it will feel like. >> Oh, totally. Paradoxical. >> Totally. It wants to be in control. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, there's there's there's really nothing there's nothing to grasp on here, I guess. >> No, there isn't. >> Good point. >> Also, I was wondering if you could explain to me once again the everything and nothing because I've heard you talk a bunch about it, but it's it's still a little bit confusing. >> Oh, well, the confusing bit, the MI thinks it can come up with an idea or an experience of everything. The confusing bit is that everything is simultaneously
31:14 nothing and then it wants to know what nothing is. But it's nothing. >> Okay. Thank you, Jim. >> Thank you. >> Where'd you go? There you are. Yeah. Um, so I was um trying to set up my uh a vacuum robot, a robot vacuum cleaner. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And it was I got the manual out and I was reading it and trying to do it. Not too good with this sort of thing. And there was a service number, you know, you could phone for any issues you had. And there seemed to be a piece missing.
32:00 So, I found I couldn't really get through, so I used the computer online and I got um through. Uh but eventually, I mean, you're basically talking to another robot then. And it was about quarter to 3 and I thought, well, this is probably what Jim means by, you know, real and unreal. I mean, this is the the service center for this vacuum robot was definitely real and unreal at the same time. But my question is just to be clear, when you say unreal, >> Yeah. >> you mean you you don't mean that I can't get satisfaction?
32:47 >> No. No. I mean, well, it depends what you mean. So I differentiate between satisfaction fulfillment. I am limited to satisfaction which is an experience of the coming and going of getting things. >> Yeah. >> So satisfaction and dissatisfaction. What's longed for beyond that sense of separation is fulfillment. >> Yeah. Um it's nothing to do with the sense that it
33:32 >> has nothing that has not been discovered yet or something like that. >> No, no. It has nothing to do with anything. That's fulfillment. Fulfillment isn't a feeling. It isn't an acquisition. Fulfillment is that everything is already completely fully what it is. It's nothing perfectly being everything. That's fulfillment. And it's already Yeah, you you're going to have to talk to the sales department and this vacuum cleaner
34:18 group and see if you can't instill some >> some reality in there. I desperately tried there to make um this a serious question after a silly story, but it's um there's no way that I don't think any Well, I certainly have no idea what you mean by neither real nor unreal. >> The words >> absolutely good. >> Because we're the whole conversation, the whole meeting is a suggestion of something that can't be known. The idea or the sense that what's longed for is something to be known is an illusion. It's just part of the misunderstanding of what we're
35:05 discussing. What's longed for isn't more more knowing, more acquisition. It's actually the absence of the knower. That's what's longed for. >> In in the example, I I wasn't trying to be a knower. I was actually trying to get the damn thing to work and and frustrating. So, it was that wouldn't be fulfilled. >> The knower isn't the result of another knower trying or not trying. A knower isn't the result of another
35:53 know >> trying. Thank you. >> All right, >> we'll work on that one. >> Good luck. Thanks, Andy. >> I'll see you in sharpen. >> Yeah, great. Hey Max. >> Hi. So, does Jim arise every every so often or is it is gym just fully gone? >> Oh, it's worse than that. There never is or was a gym? But that that um sematic contraction contraction of energy
36:38 um did occur >> in the story in the story that there's a past. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so the question is the does the story sometimes arise and is sort of recognized as you know for what it is as as a story or is it even like never even arising? >> Never happened. >> Never happened. And so every so everything is just unfolding >> apparently. But >> no reason >> the body the body Jim Newman I mean apparently >> um still has you know genetic predispositions towards you know X Y and
37:25 Z certain condition. >> Okay. >> Yeah. there again there's there's just this this as I mentioned a few minutes ago there's this longing to figure out like currently I I have um a pretty severe Lyme disease and I have these crazy headaches which is why I started meditating or the apparent self um um as a way to ease the pain and it's it's evolved into this non-duality kind of seeking um the apparent me >> but yeah so there's this longing oh Shoot, if the self goes away, >> is you know, am I is there going to be treatment? Is there going to be a will to you know, continue talking to doctors to get better?
38:12 >> There've been two body the body wants to survive. >> The body has it's just part of the conditioning to survive. >> Well, the thing is, Jim, there were two awakening moments last week for a few seconds. >> Yeah. Um and there was just this radical just dropping of everything and then >> yeah well nobody dropped it but yeah there isn't anything >> there is a so that motivation that the individual identifies with is an add-on to the natural motivation to survive and if that goes it especially if there's some individual sense left it can be quite terrified that the energy or drive that it had isn't there anymore. more its sense of control
38:59 but the body still goes to doctors >> the the after that I mean yeah there was nothing to drop but there was sort of a shift >> and a few seconds later >> this this deep fear ensued >> totally >> um which makes sense I guess >> thank you Jim >> all right thanks Max >> hey Moira fire. Oh, I was going to ask this and then I was like, "No, don't." But then I still did. Um, so our relationships a dream or unreal. >> Yeah. >> Right.
39:44 Okay. That's it. That's it. That's all I want to say. But I I kind of like knew the answer, I think. So, you just confirmed what I was doubting. I suppose I suppose I doubt things and then that get really complicated, don't it? >> Oh yeah, the me loves complication. >> Yeah, certainly do. [Music] >> Cuz I've just had this thing with the relationship bust up stuff and it's like, well, how on earth did that mess happen? And it's like it does seem like it was probably because it weren't real and it was just all this complication came out of that. >> The me in relationships, the me is
40:31 looking for something. >> So it it compromises and manipulates in order to try to find >> what it feels the other has that it that it needs. >> They do that to each other, don't they? >> Yeah. Oh, totally. >> Yeah, but I cuz somebody's cut off. They've gone and made it so I can't find them and communicate anymore. So, I'm left with the imagination of it all. And um blame myself completely and um oh, all sorts of mess and stuff. And >> the me loves it. It loves mess and stuff and complication comes out of a sense of
41:16 what is is its experience is important because it's important has value. [Music] >> Yeah. I don't know what to say. I mean there's nothing more I can say really. I don't think. >> All right. >> Okay. Thanks. Um, can you unmute me or what? >> I'll mute you. >> Hey, Rob. >> Hey. Hi, Mr. Jim. Um, so I my I just, you know, my
42:02 question is what if you're wrong about all this and kind of, you know, you seem like you're somebody who's very certain about themselves, but what if this whole thing is just, you know, kind of a false alarm and you're running around telling everybody this stuff? >> Yeah. >> Is that not possible? Um, the MI lives in belief and doubt. So what it can't experience, it will doubt. What's not in an experience, it will doubt. Part of the experience of being a me is a belief.
42:52 So if the if the MI is already not the case, then what's what's this appearance exactly? That's just what it is. It's nothing appearing. >> How can nothing appear? >> Yeah. Yeah. Academy will run into all sorts of issues with this message because there's no evidence for it. There's no proof. It can't be known or experienced.
43:46 What is it? >> Just nothing. >> But what what is the in the face of it being nothing >> and you know someone you know something happening right now appearing to happen right now. >> Yeah. >> So the lens of it being nothing there seems to be some importance given to that or some relevance being given to that seems that way. >> Yeah. >> So to me looks at >> is that seemingness of relevance to it
44:32 being nothing somehow more than it being anything else? >> No. like being a >> no relevance. Relevance is just the dream of me looking for be looking to be relevant. And is there is there a reason for the particular emphasis on the the self aspect of it or the me aspect of it? Is is the me identity >> not just as arbitrary as any other thing?
45:17 Isn't it kind of a a matter of thingness rather than like this self? This notion of a self. >> It's it's the only part of the appearance which is completely illusory. Isn't every aspect of the appearance elusory? >> No. >> How is that? So self is illusion. >> Self is an illusion. Yeah. >> Are you saying self is illusion or that? Because my understanding is more like that things or separation is illusory and that the notion of a self is just a
46:03 notion of separation that is like >> separation with the sense of being a individual being a self and that's illusory. There is no separation. There is no individual. But there are things >> only apparent things. >> So is the self just another thing? >> Well, it's an appearance, but it's a part of the appearance that's completely illusory.
47:01 Is it not just as illusory as any other kind of thing as being separate or being permanent? >> Oh, separation and permanence are part of the sense of self. So the the sense of self the sense of self is the most nothing thing of nothing.
47:46 >> No no it's it's the same nothing appearing as a self. It just happens to be illusory, >> completely >> completely unreal. Whereas everything else has a certain reality to it, but it's nothing. Where where is the the defining line or the the discerning line between like the nothingness of this old leaf versus the nothingness of a of a self of a sense of a self? >> The sense of itself is illusory. >> And this leaf is not illusory. >> No, it's nothing leafing.
48:36 >> Why can't nothing selfing? >> Oh, it does. It's just a It's just illusory. >> But But you're saying that this is less illusory than a self. >> It's not an illusion at all. It's a It's just nothing leafing. The illusion is that there is an experiencer or a knower of leafing. That's the sense of separation. And there is none. It's an illusion. >> So, how can a determination be made to compare the thing of the self and the thing of the leaf?
49:22 >> Not sure what you mean, determination. >> Well, just the consideration that's that's saying that this is nothing leafing versus a self being nothing at all. >> It just it's just it's just obvious. I would say thinglessness is obvious but the the lessness of a self is not obvious compared to the lessness or nothingness of a leaf. >> Yeah. >> You mean it's not in your experience? It never will be.
50:17 Okay. Thank you, Mr. Jim. >> Thanks, Mr. Rob. Hi Sylvia. >> Hi, Tim. >> Hi. >> Hi. You can hear me very good. Just wanted to say hello before you are gone again soon. And yeah, no really question but nice and thank you that you go on with this talks and never give it up. That's really wonderful. >> Great. Good to see you, Sylvia. >> Good to see you too, Jim. Uh, do you have an idea or are you planning to go to Austria next year again?
51:04 >> It should be in March. >> Oh, good. >> Yeah, >> good to know. Then then we will see us again in person. I hope so. >> I know >> that this will work out. >> Yeah, it's it's it's all good. Thank you. So, so far I do good. >> Great. >> And yeah, life goes on >> and playing around >> and other jokes. [Laughter] It seems it goes on. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Take care. Bye. >> Bye. Bye, Jim.
51:50 >> Bye, Jim. Okay. >> In the introduction, you said that this is more whole, more complete, uh more what is longed for than we can imagine. >> I've just been stirring in that this whole time. That's so terrifying. It's >> Oh, dear. >> Well, on the one hand, because it just increases the longing. It feels like like it it puts it out of reach, but also like makes me want to reach more at the same or Yeah. It's And also because I don't even know what that is that I'm longing for. >> No, I don't either.
52:36 Is it also It's not out of reach. >> It's speaking. >> It's sitting on the couch. >> It's also imagination. Yeah. >> There's everything. There's nothing excluded. It's everything. Cool. Um, >> great. Thanks, Jacob. >> One more one more thing, Jim, if you don't mind. Um, you said, uh, this is everything being exactly what it is. >> Yeah. >> And the me also is that. >> Yeah.
53:21 >> But it also isn't, right? The me is and isn't, but only for the individual. So, is that why it's the illusion? Everything is and isn't. >> Yeah. >> To me is an illusion. >> But it also is and isn't. It's also nothing being an illusion. So it's almost like it's doubly compounded in a way. >> Well, not really. It's just less. It's just nothing. >> Yeah. Because there there's a sentence that I've been thinking about like that a me could say which is like I am aware of the knowledge of my own existence. >> Yeah. existence, knowledge, awareness, all those I all those are the same thing right? >> Yeah, that's right. >> It's also it's so smashed. It's just it's it becomes meaningless. It's nothing. >> Oh, totally.
54:14 >> All right. Cool. Thanks, J. >> Hi, Patty. Hi, Jim. Well, I have 10 seconds. >> Okay. It looks like um there's this running theme today today of dreams and um when the first person brought it up, I almost kind of chuckled to myself like yeah and and this what seems like a life but I've heard over and over is a dream. It's like in my dream, in this dream here, um for this supposed person, um
55:02 man, what a what a preamble. Sorry. Um it's like yeah every every um you know first Saturday of the month Jim shows up in my dream you know and I just but I mean I just um I love the analogy of the dream because um if you think about it they're really weird things and but it gives us an idea of what you're saying like I mean really it's like This is a dream that there's no gym. Obviously, there isn't even a body gym. There's just this >> what's showing up here. >> Yeah, total. >> It's so um and and
55:50 so there's no difference. I mean, I'll say you're not different than me, but you know, that's dualistic. But yeah, it's >> so so even this message is it's like here. It's it's not there with Jim. It's like >> Oh, totally >> here. >> And yeah. Okay. And then this thing with I've I've always kind of, you know, had trouble with this other people's like all these different perceptions that seem to be around and those aren't even those are just also >> this dream >> and it's all just the same. >> I'm sorry.
56:36 >> It's the same. It's the same. You say nothing. It's all nothing. >> Yeah. hearing. Absolutely. >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, thanks. >> Yeah. Thank you, Patty. >> To to all of this. Yeah. Bye. >> Bye. Thanks everybody. So, just in closing, let me say that there isn't anything to take with you. There hasn't been any effort to change anything. It's just a a conversation about nothing. What's longed for is already everything. There's no way to get closer to it or further away.
57:24 There's no acquisition of nothing. There's no way to become nothing. There's no way to become whole or full. It's already done. Love you guys. Thank you very much.
