0:06 The thing is, Andre, even though you're not a resource that can be used to help the me become fulfilled. Yes. Well, nothing is, but you're definitely not, but um there's an availability as far as any there's an availability there. Yeah. as far as any question is welcomed or if a discussion a discussion is welcomed like it's well it's not welcomed as in it's needed but as far as it will be responded to or but then I sit there thinking if I haven't got a question I'm wasting an opportunity as if you are a resource yeah I can feel like that but that's just a dream so it doesn't matter Yeah, if he does. No, it
0:53 doesn't matter sitting in silence or asking loads of questions. There is no one. No need to no need to express and no need to hold back. Just what's happening and that's the natural reality. No need to express and no nothing being expressed and nothing being held back. Yeah. Just what's happening. Just just like Yep. I don't get what you mean when you say totality. Like if this is totality, what does that mean? Uh sitting in a room being exactly what it is. Everything just being what it is as an
1:40 undivided nothing. This just is exactly what it is. That's total. But when we leave and we're not in this room, this room no longer exists. No. Then leaving and having left this room is total. But if no one's experiencing it, yeah, it's an it's an inexperienced totality. It has nothing to do with intensity or or a full experience or what the senses are perceiving. No, that's it's not it's not total in the sense that it's a a
2:27 very alive experience. It has nothing to do with them and it has nothing to do with what the senses see and hear and stuff. No, because that is also totality. That's also exactly and totally what it is. But as I said, it has nothing to do with intensity or the aliveness that the person is dreaming about having a a vivid experience and say, "Oh, this is total and life is so happy. It's an empty totality and a neutral one and a neutral one. Yeah. I just had to throw that in there. Thank you. Yeah. I have no idea how to
3:15 like It's not about my experience. Neutrality, but as far as it just sounded good what you've learned. Yeah. What? That's right. What I've learned. Thank you. I'm applying my knowledge. Yeah. Yes. What's the um danger of Well, I ask myself a lot of questions. Yeah. Who's hearing? What is lacking? Um what can you say about this moment? And then it all ends up in emptiness and no answer. Yeah. But you
4:01 always you well once you told me well it has a it has a danger in it or well it's like a method or it's just like yeah it sounds maybe I don't know what I meant back then but it sounds to me as if you are so to speak um you know as if this is your game so to speak. Mhm. Just observing the moment, asking you those things, asking yourself, and then always coming to no conclusion and it dissolving into nothingness. But it sounds to me as if it's still you observing it, noticing it as if
4:49 there's just this notion of asking a question and not finding an answer and it dissolving into nothing else. And that's totally fine. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah. But if I if I ask myself, okay, who's seeing this? That's the thing. Then you already ask yourself, you ask. Okay. But then then the conclusion is there's only seeing. There's nobody who sees it. Okay. But it's still a conclusion for you. Yeah. About how reality is. Yeah. How would reality be completely without that dynamic? Yeah, that's what I mean. It's still somehow
5:34 when I say still, I don't mean that it shouldn't be like that, but it's within the observer dynamic. Yeah. And within this whole thing, I'm here. I'm in a process of I ask myself something, I draw a conclusion from that and then it starts over again. And even if the conclusion is so-called nondual or sounds like oh there even if the conclusion is there is no one or there's just seeing it's still somehow personal. Mhm. That's what I mean. Yeah. And it's not a danger or something, but I mean
6:22 for the person it can easily seem as if it's kind of approaching nonduality or approaching what we talk about here because it draws nondual conclusions. But of course those conclusions it's also what it's looking for. you know, it has heard those words like there's just seeing, there is no one. So, it's kind of almost hoping for those conclusions to happen and in the end it's just a seeking dynamic observing the world through the eyes of
7:10 nonduality. Yeah. and then kind of drawing nondual conclusions. That's but it's not a danger. That's not the person wants to do something. It wants to do something and it wants to sincerely know and to sincerely realize. So that's what I mean. There's nothing wrong or bad about it, but it it's just someone observing looking coming to a conclusion, having the impression of having found something and then the whole thing
7:56 starts over again. It's just that the seeking dynamic. I'm here. I'm trying to see the truth in my experience. I'm drawing some kind of conclusion. I can rest a bit. It's kind of this whole notion of being born and dying, but in between there is this me being on a path even if it's for a split second or for five minutes or but it it contains this whole dynamic so to speak. Starting point, a path, an ending point.
8:48 So the person lives in what we said experiencing. Yes. Think for the person. So when when you're saying everything happens and happens not at the same time at the same time then the person now I understand. That's a lot of exactly that's the hope. Well, the funny thing is that the person never actually experiences happening or non- happening simultaneously, but it understands uh it experiences the apparent understanding of so it would just say ah okay everything is happening and not happening at the same time. Good to know. That's how it really is. Yeah. As if now it knows more than
9:36 before just because it's able to repeat those words. But it can't access how that really is. It just knows though. Okay, that's how it is. Same with there is no me or when I say there is no time as if it's just something that could be known. as if it's somehow helpful to know that. Yeah. Go through life. Yeah. But it applies to any knowledge. Of course, it's all dream.
10:23 And then to know that that everything is real and done would be an experience. for the person I experience knowing that it's really not at all that there is no one more. Yeah. And the the method sorry the method that would happen out of that is to just remember that again and again and again or the person would start to try to how can I really experience this in my daily life and then invent some methods and
11:09 use it as a tool as a goal actually as a goal like the goal would be to experience this all the fine, but in between I can take and when I take a bit of LSD, it's almost as if it's real and unreal. This comes somehow close to it or when I'm breathing for 3 hours, I feel so dizzy that nothing is real. Maybe that's how it's meant kind of or stuff like that which has nothing to do. Yeah. Well, we are talking about a person that comes from a personal
11:58 sounding through some but to me it like it's more like a verb than a subject. So the person doesn't exist actually, but you could say person is how it how you how it sounds a dynamic. It's more like an something moving in the Yeah. And you could call that person. So you like sounding like music. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's a I also read I didn't read book. I didn't read anything of it. The I is a door but that could I don't know what what the man meant but it could mean that is something like person that
12:43 you going there's a movement you can go through a door so there's a movement I don't know what to mean but like personal yeah I think it was this doll thing was meant differently but uh yeah yeah it's it's I mean even in the story It's way way more fluid than the person thinks about itself. I don't I don't know anything about the person but personal I can imagine something Yeah. something is happening. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's Yeah. way more an energy or d than but the person is not a fixed thing of
13:29 course. Never anyway. Yeah. So it's like music. You have bright notes. Uh notes for low high notes. Yeah. A symphony. Yeah. Small piece. Yeah. A batella or something. The MI symphony. Yeah. Plays its own. Uh, I never met her at music piece and never. Yeah. But not Yeah.
14:25 But that's just the Italian sound. And I also heard in in Indian when you have the word me and in India philosophy they always say me. You have the the little me and then the big me. Yeah. Yeah. And um but the word I in in I is the first letter of alphabet and home is would be the last. So I is everything. Yes. And nothing. Yeah. Well can see it in many ways. That's the problem. You could also say I
15:11 am everything. Yes. I so I mean aham that would be what they usually refer to as the whole of existence. So everything that lies between birth and death that would be the alphabet. But this would overlook the nothingness of all of it. So yeah I don't I didn't study enough. Yeah. And of course in from the traditional could say the real eye. Yeah. Is a room and 20 people sitting in it. Yeah. That's all there is. That is I. That's what we all are. That's what everything is. Yeah. The totality of what seems to
15:58 be happening. That's I. Yeah. Yeah. I And then there are no persons. Then there is no experience of being that. It just is that. Yeah. Or maybe they're personal. They have sounds. Oh, sorry. It's not meant like that. Then the moment you personalize it, you have it has nothing to do with them and this then it would be awareness or I am everything as a me or as pure awareness. Yeah, that's that's also a fantasy. That's the fantasy then. Exactly. Yeah. So I am the biggest like T is doing. Exactly. I'm um I will get
16:46 peace in 24 hours. Yeah. Exactly. I'm the biggest me. Yeah. Yeah. I'm great. I'm the greatest. Exactly. Yeah. Are we both in the same dream? Oh, there is no dream. Yeah. There's just what seems to be happening. Yeah. So that then I can say for me there's no dream. Yeah. There is no dream. There's Well, there is no for you. Yeah. Just what is this? That's all. Sure. That's a problem. That's a problem. Yeah. Well, we of course before we said
17:33 that nothing can be known and that there is no one knowing anything. Yeah. So it's quite impossible to be sure of anything. Yeah. Exactly. And I'm not a teacher so I don't know. I'm also So what the I I didn't understand in India they always
18:18 talk about I and now I can understand it from that understanding that it's everything. Yeah. But I'd say my impression is I haven't studied this as well. Yeah. But I my impression is that this aham it means I am. Yeah. And in the I am I mean I am is the sense of existence. Oh I didn't understand it like that. I only understand it like Everything that is. Yeah. Everything that is not especially I. Yeah. But
19:04 there isn't anything. Yeah. But Oh, yeah. So this I in that sense it it belongs to this I am experience. Yeah. But this I am experience is also the experience of existence itself. It's this there is something. Yeah. And this contains all of existence. It's a bit philosophical, but it goes back to this experience of I am. Yeah. So the I would say I'm the cause for existence. I am all of existence.
19:49 Yeah. But that's But that has nothing to do with this message. Yeah, I understand. Yeah. In I think in Greek philosophy in Germany, it would be everything between alpha and omega. Everything between birth and death. Yeah. And all that exists between birth and death. But this would be a personal way of seeing because it discards nothingness. It it's only in this existence that happens between birth and death. Yeah. But it doesn't matter. Okay.
20:40 And then again well nothing in them. There just is no I am. Oh, so that's the same. A hum and from birth to death is dream. Yeah, that's Yeah, exactly. It's a dream. So there is no I am and no existence between birth and death or between being created and the end of creation. Okay. In in the in the advice of they also speak about I am that's a problem. Yeah. That's the first concept. Yeah. And then we try to go to I'm not there's no I anymore.
21:31 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Still concept. Of course I am concept. Of course. Yeah. I am Mr. James. Yeah. Which some of those scriptures are pointing out very clearly. Yeah. I didn't read actually this scripture. So good. Good that we have this discussion because you can take away those books. I haven't read a lot of them either. So,
22:18 but I like discussing what what they mean when they say you get I am that that first you try to be completely I am or something like that. Do do you understand something of that concept? No, I mean I mean the thing is my impression is that with a lot of those scriptures they are actually descriptions but they are taken as prescriptions. So I know I know a lot of people who before their impression to be someone collapsed they they had a face of
23:06 not giving the world much much attention. They were just kind of being me or being themselves and kind of suffering from that to just be a me and nothing in the world was attractive anymore and stuff like that. And then they collapsed apparently. Oh yeah. But that's just what seemed to have happened. It's not a prescription that you should stay in the I am. Yeah. It's in regards to this message that's neither needed nor is there anyone who can do it. Yeah. I heard there was a person who who got enlighted because he his arm came
23:52 between the door and it was and then he saw the light and then there were other people who went the same trying to get the same result. Exactly. They failed and Yeah. Exactly. You can't do it. Yeah. So we can try that later on if someone is interested and it doesn't matter fingers, arms, legs, whatever. There's no check it out. Then I saw somebody in television also teacher and she said he's not teacher. No, I know.
24:39 [Music] It's about ignorance. Yeah. There is no one. Yeah. You can't even if you say what to Yeah. suddenly. But what? Yeah. There is no Well, there's nothing to see. No. No. It's very simple. Is that true? Yeah. Yeah. Well apparently
25:26 it's all the time. Yeah. [Music] Talk about it. Could could you say that there two two things at the same time like there's an openness at the same time really don't want to hear this and run away from it? Yes. Yeah. And seen from the person those would look like two things that seem to contradict each other. Actually it's just what seems to be happening. Yeah. And they are not separate aspects.
26:11 It's not a contradiction. It's just what seems to be happening which doesn't make sense. Y both not personal. Exactly. Both not personal. And as I said, in the end, they aren't even really both. They aren't aspects. They just what seems to be happening. Can't understand it. Exactly. Can't understand it. It just is like that. But it's not logical. Can't be comprehended or understood. How it can be exactly as it is. This
27:00 can't be understood. It doesn't make sense. It's too simple. It's too simple and it's it's undivided. I mean, the person would always be lost in this aspects and those seem to contradict themselves. So, if it's constantly trying to connect parts and aspects that aren't actually parts, That's the interesting thing. It just is like that. There is a resonance and at the same time there's a rejection and that's how it is anyway. It doesn't contradict itself at all. It's just how
27:46 it is. Yeah. It's only contradiction from your personal view. Exactly. when you look at it, when you think about it, when you observe it and you split it up into aspects and but actually it just it's like that. You're sitting here and apparently it feels like that. No contradict no contradiction at all. There's just nowhere to land in that. There's just no one who can land in that. It's kind of a timeless app. You can't do anything with it. Also a concept in music. You you said
28:32 about landing somewhere that you have I want to be there. That's that's the the music of the concept that you never land always going through to the next note or the next rest. Fantastic. Everything is music. Yeah. never come to a learning is not possible. Yeah. Sometimes I heard it's I mean the person would turn this into so it'll always go on but no therefore you can everything you can make. Exactly. But yeah there is nowhere to land. I tell that to my choir.
29:20 Maybe maybe they don't ask for it. No, I don't. It's not about person but about the sound. It's going on and they are interested in sound of course because they are making sound. Yeah.
30:24 But it's same with us. There's nothing which can land. Exactly. Yeah. No sound, no thought, no feeling. Yeah. There there is no want to land in anything. The person wants to land in knowledge for example or in a conclusion. It's always actually looking for this experience of ah that's how it is. That's landing and hoping that it can rest in a conclusion. Or like you like in am I rejecting now or is there a
31:10 resonance? If there should be resonance, there shouldn't be a rejection. How can I land in them? But also the other way around the music the sound is there's no person who's touched by it. It's just it's just what seems to be looks like transparency. Just oh because there is no no separation between oneself and anything else. Yeah, it's just all of it, including oneself, is what seems to be happening for no one. And it's all a timeless appearance, including one oneself, for no one.
32:00 And in a way one could say the mi is always trying to somehow arrive in this appearance to somewhere land and be and it doesn't work. It's a kind of contra contradiction. What do I mean? Yeah. It's not possible. There's no person. It's not happening. Yeah. Landing somewhere isn't happening. So what we just talk about like happening in free space or something something like that. Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's just what seems to be
32:47 happening and it's free, timeless, spaceless, not going anywhere, not coming from. It's just this apparent happening. Just feels a tiny shock. [Laughter] a thousand times. [Laughter] Yeah, it's neither right nor wrong nor true or it's just what seems to me when spiritual spirituality we are talking about the truth all the time. Yeah. To find truth. Yeah. And um I
33:38 how can they say that? Well, because they assume that there is this possibility to land somewhere and they call this the truth. To land in truth. To land in the truth. Some would say that this experience itself is the truth. The true experience when you have landed when you have when you have a the experience of a room with 13 people or 14 and that you experience it completely then you'll landed in the truth for example when they think that you can experience this completely I mean that differs from teaching to
34:24 teaching what they regard as the truth but yeah in the end it's coming boiling down to this one experience erience which ends the search and which is the one true experience. That's what they are looking for. Truth seekers. Yeah. Yeah. Hoping assuming that it exists that there is one way to be or one answer or one truth that will make me stop seeking. Absolutely. And then I'm going to say I am that. For example,
35:11 hoping that they can have an experience of being that they can still be there and be aware of them. Again, one way to experience one truth. We as a body we have breathing most important if you don't breathe you die which is kind of true the body dies breathing breathing is also very water
35:59 I in the choirs and then they say some people say to to me I am the conductor of the choir they say to me uh I don't breathe breathe very good and I always say that can't be the case otherwise you wouldn't have been so old you would have All right.
37:20 [Music] in the script always say about you the ultimate experience they say it's not an experience. Yes. It's um you can't say anything about it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. That's what what's being said here as well. Yeah. Yeah. Sitting in a room is not an experience. I sometimes also said that about experience and you can doubt everything.
38:07 You say, "Okay, maybe also use it as a tool." So don't every experience. Yeah. But that's another that's not a that's another experience. Yeah. I didn't die. Yeah, it's just happening so far. Oh, no. No one knows this. It's just what seems to be happening.
38:57 But you don't choose to stop breathing. You can decide to now I'm I stop breathing. Probably not. Maybe. Yeah, exactly. Maybe some yogis they seem to be able to do it. Yeah, but normal people fox can't do it. Fox can't do it. Well, it's not really the point. It doesn't matter. [Music] It's yeah, it's also not really important if the body lives or not. So, nothing matters really. I can't understand. You say
39:45 the body is it doesn't matter. No, it doesn't matter. Believe me, it's totally fine if the world goes on without Andre. The apparent world, believe me, it would it would be okay. Like you mean like there's no importance in it? Yeah, there isn't no more or less homes or there isn't anyone here who who needs the body.
40:31 So nothing needs to continue. No, no, not at all. I'm not living in this body needing this body to have more pleasant experiences and to enjoy existence. There is no one. where the person would say, "Of course, I need this body. How am I supposed to to enjoy existence and find find something? I need to have more holidays,
41:17 see my children, drink more coffee." Exactly. How should I have all of that without the body? Yeah. As a goat, maybe. Try to drink a coffee as a ghost. This is not working. What a shitty experience.
42:28 [Music] personal view is insane. Insane. Yeah. How would you say that? How can you say it's insane madness? So will feel attracted to it in a way. Yeah. Oh, because it's freedom at the same time. But yes, yeah, it's doesn't make any sense at all. Yeah.
43:17 Yeah. from from personal view is well you hope that there will be something like reincarnation or whatever you know and to continue. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe as a no me maybe. Exactly. Maybe but yeah it can't be comprehended at all and not wished for. There's always this hope for continuation, always this projection in the future how it will be and it has to go on somehow. Yeah. Just as an energy doesn't even have to be thought through, you know, will there be heaven or reincarnation or whatever.
44:04 It just sudden death is not It's not something that can be long for comprehended at all in that sense without having any idea of future or any projection. I mean death is even saying too much actually. just just no self from one moment to the other not being there actually without without even a moment of death just not being there
44:51 that never came into existence. Yeah. Yeah. But I I just meant this idea to just not be there from one second to another. That's Yeah. What? I don't think so. Let's avoid that. Yeah. Without even understanding that one has been there. Just not be there anymore. Without any realization, without knowing anything, without having ever seen the truth, without arriving, just such a weird idea. Such a weird idea for the person. Yeah. Wasted like a beast of life. Yeah. Exactly. A wasted life. Yeah. Wasted. All my efforts are wasted.
45:45 So searching can be painful, but at least you have the idea that I don't waste my life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. I mean, searching is painful on the one hand. On the other hand, as long as there's this promise, I mean, there's also this promise, this shiny promise that if you just go on long enough, you will find and not waste your life. That's the carrot. That's the carrot. And that's also the nourishment that feels good all the time. You can believe in that all the time that this seems to be possible. I can make it for the seeker. Everything is fine. This is the seeker's heaven.
46:31 That's enough to keep it going. And that's also the juicy thing. That's what makes life worthwhile. This feeling when you have the impression that oh maybe I will become fulfilled. This feels great. Gorgeous. Even the possibility that this might happen at some point is worthwhile the effort that is worthwhile to stay around. It's much better than just nothing than just no self. It's always one step ahead. Well, it's always already there.
47:16 Yeah. But that's not what we talk about. What we talk about is the other thing, the no self. Exactly. What am I doing here then? I just wanted to have a lovely Sunday afternoon. Walking in the sun and now sitting in a room. Exactly. Maybe have but maybe even here I have some nice talks about the wheel and the illusion. [Music]
49:46 Good moment to leave properly. It's strange. A lot of times assume that feelings or thoughts are wrong or
50:31 something is wrong. Yeah. I can't even know why I think that. Yeah. And they just aren't wrong. They're also not right. So that's the thing. That's that's the hope. Yeah. One could see that they are right, but that's expected too much. So yeah, they're not wrong. They just are what seems to be happening. And in that sense, they are even all there is because that's what seems to be
51:18 happening. Thoughts, feelings, a body, walking around, being in situations. Well, not someone being in situations, but the whole activity of the me isn't serving any purpose at all. It doesn't serve any purpose at all. It's just a bit of a nuisance sometimes and other times it seems fun. It only consists of being a seeker. Yeah. Yeah. I see what you mean. Yeah. It's
52:03 the hope and the promise that one day it could be really good and you just never get there. So round and round and the circle seems to go. Yeah, exactly. This feeling I I can handle I can manage that's the secret to Yeah, of course. Of course. What's there to manage or to handle? Yeah, let me do it. Yeah. I was even going to say the only apparent purpose being in me serves is
52:49 keeping you separate from everything, but it doesn't even really do that. You know, it is that, but it's not doing that. No, it is the illusion of separation. And it's not really separate. I feel separate now to you and everything else. Well, you never are. There is no separation. Yeah. Even this illusion to be someone isn't separate. It is what seems to be happening. And it's undivided. You sitting here, so to speak, thinking you are someone is what seems to be happening. And also the sense that it's an ongoing experience through time like I was a person yesterday earlier I was a person now I'm a person I'll be a person later on it's just when because when you say
53:34 what seems to be happening is that point is there actually the timelessness it's just timelessly this appearing as the experience to be a me exactly well there's no continuity to anything is there no me or the appearance or Yes, there isn't. Yeah. The frustration for me now is you just can't do anything with this. Mhm. This discussion, what we're talking about, it just can't be used. It can't be held. It can't be Yeah. That's the constant frustration of the sac. Its feelings can't be used to become
54:20 fulfilled. Its thoughts can't be used to become fulfilled. People can't be used. Its presence, its own presence can't be used to become fulfilled because that's the promising thing for me is being present. Being gay presence. Well, that's at least a lot. If nothing helps, I mean, it's out of pure desperation, so to speak. If nothing helps, maybe to at least be present helps. Yeah. At least be aware of a happening. Exactly. Maybe I can gain something from that. No, nothing can be used. And this includes of course these meetings and talking to me, but it's
55:08 with everything like that. As I said, most people try to use their thoughts to find something to think about life to analyze one story. That's using thoughts and it doesn't work. Nothing works. It's brilliant because there is no one separate. There isn't me and this and I can use
55:55 this. It's not happening. And nothing works. Nice title for notebook. No book. Yeah. Second second book of the You will never be free. Yeah, it's a
56:49 discovered that some years ago. It would need a subtitle kind of nothing works and this will free you from everything. It's a bit sticky. I think it will be cool. Nothing works. Or maybe it's small and you can throw this book away. Don't buy this book.
57:35 If you buy this book, [Laughter] this is the worst book ever. Yeah. This book. It's very active. You started with it. This is for another one about first line in the book. It was written for you. Yeah. As first line in the book, it's okay. But because then people have already bought it. You have a famous book of good. I don't t I forgot the title was thick like this
58:22 and when you read the forward that's very nice but the rest of the book was closed and you have to open it but when you read a book it's you can't understand it it's like this it's totally and he's al also talking about how to tune a piano things which doesn't matter in this church of course Yeah. Do you know the book? No. No. I All about everything and nothing or something. All right. Okay. I haven't read anything from good. But maybe I should do the same. Just such a thick book and write a bit about
59:08 nonduality. The story is also my favorite cooking recipe. 300 pages quoting someone else. 100 recipes. [Music] The story is also that he came back to his he his pupils had to read the book and then when they said um they understand it he changed it and he changed it and then nobody understand it anymore. Okay, that was the purpose. Maybe he also used to drink a lot of hell. Yeah,
59:57 the source of his creativity. Yeah, but that's uh maybe obset of bragging about drinking so much and still be that you can still work and doing everything. Do that according to his own talent. Yeah, I think there are actually quite a lot of people who can do that to drink a lot and still fight. to me that's not really so well. Well, yeah, he was obviously very good at that. Maybe maybe it's also not too difficult
1:00:45 to function as a spiritual teacher where you have followers who believe anything and think that every anything of your behavior is part of your teaching. Yeah, I think it's the same with therapists. The one who has the therapy, they really believe that they have this therapy from this person and then they will feel better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's I mean, yeah, it's the personal world, you know. It's full of it
1:01:32 in a way then. Sorry I'm interrupting you. In a way then a lot of things like that in the personal world are just a self-fulfilling prophecy because if you expect and believe it's going to work whether it's therapy or another method like selfhelp or anything like that if you really believe it's going to produce a result you'll see that result because you expect to see it. I think quite often it is like that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean you also want to want to kind of feel or see what you seek and I mean a lot of groups work like that. I mean of course if you have a heart opening group so everyone is coming with the intention to create this experience that's what they are doing for two hours
1:02:18 and of course somehow after two hours every everyone feels like that or the mi comes here in this meeting trying to have a lot of insights and understanding. So for a long while the mi will sit here. Oh yeah. Ah that's good to know. Ah that's how it is you know because that's also actually what it's expecting to get here. I know the people have similar things this kind of way or that kind of way and blah blah blah blah blah. So yes and no until the appearance really proves the opposite. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think a lot of the seeking is Well, like he said before, um he's gone
1:03:05 now. But of course, if you think that you should that this is about seeing that there is no one, it's quite possible that for a long while you go through the world and constantly see proof for oh there is no one and because of that there can't be anyone. As as if that's what you want to see. Yeah. as a result of your inquiry then suddenly you seem to see proof or at least logical conclusions from a that's why there is no woman which has nothing to do with what we talk about here but that's almost kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy it's a bit like how I said to you I did
1:03:53 four and a half years of therapy and well not just that I did a ton of self-help and all kinds of stuff. And I genuinely felt like I was making these huge breakthroughs and huge progress and transforming huge areas of my life. Yeah. And then when I came to this and all of that fell away, I realized I hadn't changed at all. All the same [ __ ] was still there. Yeah. I hadn't made any growth at all. Yeah. Same. But it really felt at the time like I was making huge leaps and bounds forward. Yeah. Same here. I did the same when I was in this spiritual thing. There were a lot of psychological aspects and I thought that I had progressed so much personally and stuff like that and it all collapsed.
1:04:41 Yeah, of course I changed over over those years. I just normally well maybe but as far as all the neurosis that I thought was getting dealt with it was just as strong. It was so surprising how this whole dream of my progression and development collapsed. Yeah. In an instant. And it I genuinely had the impression that yeah, I learned a lot, changed a lot, went through a lot of things, which I kind of did, but never in the way that the person that I thought. what this would turn me into someone who is more experienced and adult.
1:05:27 Yeah, it was really shocking because for so many years this seemed to have been my main interest. So in a way you failed completely. Yeah. I didn't even manage to survive. See from a person that's the ultimate failure to not be able to survive this moment which is the least thing which I should be able to to stay somehow present. Yeah. Couldn't keep it up anymore.
1:06:15 There's no drive anymore. Yeah, there is no one. It turned out an illusion. I mean, this whole D turned out to be an illusion. And it turned out that it wasn't needed to live or to have a living body. Yeah, it's just an illusion. Dive and person collapses together. They are the same. Yeah. One could say the personal energy is also the driving force. That's how it feels. that wants to to be to go on to create to
1:07:10 Looks like sometimes you still gone, sometimes it's coming back. All right. So that's what seems to be thinking it's warm. It's slow. It's coming. Say again. And I thinking it's wrong that the story is going up. There's nothing. So that's also what seems to happen. Exactly. It's a bit mean with what seems to be happening. It's everything.
1:08:07 2 minutes. Okay. All right. So, there is no message. There's no no one who could be in the right or wrong way. There are no suggestions of any kind. What seems to be happening is all there is and that's unavoidable. So, that's at the same time effortless. It's just happening by itself.
1:08:52 Everything is just happening by itself. No one needs to do anything and no one needs to prevent anything from happening. It's a wild and free dance that looks exactly like this or that is this and it's whole and complete and wild and free and of course empty and meaningless. That's the freedom. Empty and meaningless is the freedom and full on and totality is the love. It's this just what seems to be happening. Thanks a lot for joining for this lovely weekend. [Applause]
