0:29 Right, Guys, I promise. >> I know. I'm here now. That's me. >> That's me. >> It's just the the the um divine hysteria of the revelation. The impersonal revelation. There is no one. >> I'm trying to talk. I'm trying to talk to my >> Okay. >> This is about nothing. >> Welcome to the Tobias and Alexis no show. Uh this is a divine comedy which absolutely no one finds funny. Um and and that is all I'm going to say for now. Um but as we know this is the second uh show of many to come and we're streaming live on Zoom on YouTube. So it's a hybrid situation and so I'm going
1:15 to be switching from platform to platform. Uh just keeping an eye on what's going on. After uh Tobias and I perhaps give a little intro each uh we'll be inviting you to just have a chat with us. You can unmute at any point. Just ask a question. I'll share whatever comes up. Uh and I'll be responding to people on YouTube intermittently as well. Um, as you may know, this is all uh a donationbased situation for those who are uh showing up. But for those who are able and willing and wanting to support us, um, obviously money uh helps to pay the bills in the apparent relative and practical uh appearance. So that is
2:00 really appreciated for those who are able to do that. So there's some links in the chat box um where you can just go to the PayPal. Oh, and very importantly, if you do make a donation and you're donating to Alexis, please please reference Tobias and Alexis no show just so we know to uh to split even down the line. Nothing and nothing. Double or nothing. Half or nothing. Let's go. >> This is episode two, by the way, of uh no show. Thank you so much for turning up. Thank you for all the people who came last week and all the people who are joining this week and all the people who are going to be watching subsequently. Um it's a uh a great joy to us both that so many people seem to
2:46 be engaged with this in the WhatsApp group. Uh and this is a great joy and an opportunity for us to gather together and talk about nothing at all. What an extraordinary strange thing to do, but this is our joy. And it's not just Alexis and I who are the only lunatics here. Um we would be happy to talk about nothing together. But so many of you seem willing to join us. And this is the curious thing, isn't it? Because there seems to be a reporting very much a reporting that I'm a me in the terms in which we a me understands those terms. I am me here in this body. This is my border and the outside world is out there and somehow I have to deal with
3:33 all of that. And yet we hear in this message that the sudden the shock is rather and the suggestion is that the natural reality is simply this. And I have to confess that never uh landed here when that was said to me because of course s simply this when heard by a me means that the this which is pointing to because this is me is always a that. So this meeting is oh I'm me attending this meeting but the meeting is uh an an object. I'm me and this is the meeting that I am attending. But what's being
4:19 pointed to is that the simply the absolute immediacy of what appears to be appearing and that never comes with the baggage of meaning. So it's a zoom meeting apparently. is the absolute immediacy of timeless oneness simply appearing as this Zoom meeting appearing as the sounds of these words, the movement of these bodies. And this apparently is a Zoom meeting. But nobody knows that because there is nobody to know that. And so there's no meaning at all involved in that situation. It's simply the startling and quite frankly
5:04 very surprising and shocking immediacy of the simplicity of just a Zoom meeting appearing and meaning no more or no less than just the appearance of a Zoom meeting. And that's real freedom. And that's real unconditional love because nothing is rising up to say no or to oppose or to reject um the simple appearance of all that is. And um that's what we gather here to talk about. And it's not that we gather here to talk about this in conceptual terms, although it may seem like that, but this isn't a philosophy and there's no knowledge on offer and nothing that Alexis or I say will ever advance you
5:51 any nearer to that which we consider liberation. This if anything is an ungetting and a falling apart of the understanding, the paradigm based understanding that I will get or come to know or come to relate with this oneness. It's a falling apart of that notion and a revealing that there is already only this timeless oneness. I like to call this a bejeweled hand grenade. We pull the pin and that endless frozen explosion, that endless timeless detonation. And that's the absolute falling apart of
6:37 the linearity of time because it's not some echo toll immediate uh immediiacy doesn't mean lots of now. is just timelessly bow the extraordinary immediacy of what unknowably simply is. And I offer that to you divine friends as a curious little evocation of that which of which we speak. But do understand it can never be pointed to because the pointing would also always be simply that as well. That would simply be oneness appearing as the pointing. nothing's ever pointed to. So nothing I can say is evoking anything other than poetically or energetically.
7:24 So we're here to play. We're here to enjoy this subject. Feel free to unmute yourselves, ask a question, offer something, share something. Um uh and let's have some fun. Beautiful. Yeah. Beautiful celebratory pointing out of what is already so open. There's no room for navigation of that. Yeah. No direction, nowhere to go, nowhere to remain.
8:10 Just the timeless isness of this without instruction, validation, no separation or destination, just immediiacy. >> We're in the isness business here, baby. There's truly nowhere to look when they're looking to is it?
9:00 And there's a real it's not something we can intellectually come and understand, but it it's a way into the scene of the almost terrifying totality of immediacy. One simply cannot get behind it. >> So any description well that description too is it. So it's never describing any separate thing. is always just the immediacy of what appears to be appearing. And even if there appears to be appearing the illusion of a me, nobody's having that. It's just total oneness appearing as that. No direction, no context. Totally wild and free.
9:48 It's totally wild and free. It's easy to sort of become habituated into um subtly and unknowingly energetically speaking the subtle language of the me. And the subtle language of the MI is of course uh the belief of the reality of time and spa space ordered around me. And when I say speaking this language, certainly what I mean is uh the that apparent person who's reporting to be a me going about his day and all the
10:35 experiences that appear to be encountered will each go to reinforce that notion of separation because each of those has been interpreted in that way and energetically reinforcing the story of me and who I am and how important it is that I go on being me in this way and god forbid any people see me in the way that my me I don't want this me to be seen what a tender and fragile project that all is and the subject the suggestion here is there simply is no reality to it all that psycho drama and the tension implied in that psycho drama is just the result of
11:21 that feeling of being a me and the worry that that dream engenders because it's so hard to keep that project up when we believe we're doing it and we don't really quite know the rules. >> And all that whole complex bound up amalgam starts to fall apart when it's rationale or lack of rationale meets the absolute anarchy of this message. Because no part of this glorious message acknowledges that me in any way. It does not see the illusion of the me. It does not confirm it. It does not confirm you. There is already no you there.
12:10 It is not the case that there's such a thing called the me that we have in time. Then you meet some magical weirdo like Alexis and then bang it disappears. That's not at all the story. I can get how a me might be attracted to pausing the story in that manner. But it's not the case. I mean the end of the mi is the seeing that there's no such thing as there ever having been a me. It's the end of the story of time um with startings and finishings. So when it's the end of the story of finishing, you can't say the me finish, can you? Because it's the end of the dream of
12:56 starting and finishing. The whole stupid ridiculous illusion is dreamt in its own terms. There's nothing wrong with it, but it's an illusion. No one's having it. Sorry. >> And um there's only simply this >> and that's all that there is. >> Yeah. I mean, how could you get to the end of a dream of continuity? >> It's it's like it's a lousery phenomena is based on the fallacy that there's a beginning and an end and a middle in between. And it it seems to imagine end goals and conclusions, outcomes, destinations. And it perhaps feels like the end of the
13:44 dream of separation. It being the end of continuity is an event but that demands continuity. So there is no end to the dream of continuity. It is a dream of beginnings and endings and there's no reality to that. Well then it's already not really happening. There's no such thing as the falling away of a dream of continuity. And I think sometimes we're a bit guilty, you know, like not deliberately but of uh painting the me with a greater actuality than it deserves. Because although Alexis and I part of what we do
14:31 is talking about the meat in these terms, it's very uh uh relevant I think to point out with a a good deal of frequency that just because we talk about the me in terms of it being an illusion. That doesn't therefore make it an actuality. That uh there's the me, it's an illusion, that's what it is. We can examine it in those terms. An illusion means it is not there. It's certainly not what there in the way that it imagines itself to be there. >> It's truly truly and utterly an illusion. And it's an illusion of context. So it has no weight or being. And it's a dream of context and actuality and things being real in real time and
15:17 space. And when that's all gone, the terms of reality and time and space go with it. So by what metrics can we measure its absence? By what measured can we know its absence? There are no measures left. It's total disorientation and free form. My hands aren't working again. My hands have stopped working again. Look, >> I I see them working. >> They're working again. Hello. >> Who are you talking to? >> Oh, hello. >> Hey. >> Hi, Jordy. Yeah. So, isn't it a little bit hard to even remember how this you know
16:04 definitely not existing me uh was or behaved uh after after it has kind of you know fallen away because it it almost becomes a bit vague. Would you agree with that? Like isn't it hard for you guys to remember what it was like a little bit? H how it was when it seemed like there was someone. >> Yes, exactly. Thank you, Alexis. >> In terms of morality or >> No, no, no, not morality. Just in terms of everything we're describing here, the so-called illusory behaviors, the patterns, >> all of those things. >> It's kind of like it's a little bit uh easily forgotten, I think. Right.
16:52 >> Yes. It's interesting, isn't it? because we in order to talk about what it was once like is to is to validate continuity for a start. So I always I always give that disclaimer just to make it clear that >> we're talking about a happening that never actually happens and yet when it seems to be happening it really really seems to be happening. >> And when it really really seems to be happening it really really seems to be happening to someone. And in that in that illusion, that illusory reality, all these implications seem to be apparent. And you've probably heard me say them a few times before in the apparent before. Um that that there's no that there seems to be continuity, past, present, future, that
17:37 there seems to be location where things are separate things located. And there seems to be awareness of what's appearing to happen. And there seems to be autonomy. And it's like in the apparent fading of this illusion that has no substance to it whatsoever, not even sensed as a reality, >> the these perceptions just don't even really register. There's no sense that there's any realness to that at all. >> The apparent merging of all separate things is an illusory dissolution. >> Yeah. And in that is complete unknowable and indescribable immediacy. And it's totally undeniably apparent that there's
18:24 no one that has ever done anything. There's no there's no one that ever owned anything, knew anything, related to anything. Just is simply this. And it's totally natural, totally ordinary, and totally simple. I mean, it's so natural, ordinary, and simple that it's impossible to see because it's closer than close, and yet it's not even distant whatsoever. So, that's kind of like a falling asleep at the illusory wheel, which felt to be under some under someone's influence. And the whole sense of that fading away is the sense of there being anyone to
19:10 fade away. Well, then even fading away fades away. Nothing happened. Nothing is happening and all there is and all there ever is is this immediacy. >> Yeah. When there's no differentiation, then >> how could you even make sense of something that never even existed? >> Indeed. Indeed. >> Yeah. But there is an apparency and I know it's a story and I and I have to I disclaim the heck out of it and people probably get sick of that, but but but there's an >> Oh, thank you. very apparent um difference in the story that there's a
19:56 sense of autonomy and it's absolutely no sense of autonomy. And in that dream, it's like it's it just seems so so real that there is some kind of control here that someone is saying these words and someone is definitely listening to them and that someone is choosing how to move, what gestures to make, which way to move the body next. And all of these little micro and macro movements that the sematic nervous system seems to be doing seems to be under the guise of a center called me and it's just absolutely unreal. Yeah. That that has no reality whatsoever. Yeah. The sematic nervous system as neuroscientists will
20:43 propose is that little tiny branch of the whole central and peripheral that is under someone's control and wonderfully so not even that tiny little branch is under someone's control let alone the autonomic nervous system or any other branch. Yeah, >> it's just tension really. It just comes down to tension. And I know that it's a bit of a lousy way of putting it because there's no way to really describe that which isn't actually happening, but it seems like there's this kind of tenseness and densess >> in that seeming tenseness and densess. It's like the the whole psychopysical organism and structure has been mistaken >> for an individual organism separate from
21:31 its surroundings. Yeah, >> it's not like that tension, you know, is it it's not necessary, is it for that tension to just, you know, if there is a factory reset for that to be suddenly like, oh god, there's so so so clear that that all of this tension is gone now. that's not really exactly the case or for some people it is and it isn't or >> just to be clear it's not a physical tension. It's not like a muscular contraction because obviously that that is still required for the flexion and extension of muscles and bones and fibers and whatnot. Um it seems to be like a whole psychossematic experiential
22:17 field >> of uh of tense separateness or separate tenseness and and and apparently this is what dissolves. Of course to say to say it dissolves implies it actually happened to dissolve but I won't disclaim it again. It's so strange Jordy that like one is left with after like on one analysis you could I understand that somebody could say well hang on there's been 50 odd years of apparent experience there and then you look at apparent Tobias now and you think well whatever is claimed to be going on there or not claimed to be going on there then there must surely be
23:04 a way to compare that 50 odd years of experience to And what a natural uh sentiment that would be. But it's truly the case that the natural response would be if someone spoke about the me it would be what what that's what the natural response would be. What what are you talking about? Yeah, it's not like it's literally that confusing because >> like there can be factual memories arising like oh there's a factual knowledge that I thought in that way then and that can arise but it never refers or means anything. It's just the fact of that memory appearing to arise not owned by anyone or anything. Um, but
23:52 there's zero feel for what a life lived felt like. There's just um that never happened. >> It only happened in the time in which it dreamt. It happened right outside of that dream. There is a time for it to have happened in it was a dream of it happening in time >> of no substance whatsoever and not even yours nothing to do with you >> and and and and in in that way it can be um you know I think that uh you know a parent me uh often you know there's always something there that will happen
24:37 but actually if there's like you know I don't know a click like that the victory resets whatever uh it's kind of uh or it can be I think quite disappointing right >> uh disappointing is an interesting way to put it because it's like not at all what the Mi wants >> what the Yeah. M yeah. >> And I remember Tony saying, "How do you know? How do you think know you think you're going to like it, >> which is a playful way of putting it, but it can be a bit confusing and it can be a bit terrifying, but it's not what the meat wants. It's not in this isn't about getting, it's ungetting. >> Like you're being diver there's a
25:24 divestment of these notions." Yes. >> So there's nothing being gained or added to. >> Divestment. I love that. Yes. Totally. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The entire spaceless cosmos is stripping off the garment of me. >> Yeah. Excuse my indulgence, divine friends, but I'm trying to adequately get across to you playfully, I admit, but with great purpose, apparently that this is so immediate that any attempt,
26:10 desire, or residual notion of traveling towards it or journeying or a path towards this is madness. It's bananas. It's insanity. It's nonsense. >> There is no getting this. There's no traveling towards it. There's no incremental deepening insight towards it. And I I'm not saying that to be cruel. I'm not saying that to be rude. But you will not get it. And that's not because there's trying to be some elitist selfish hoarding of information. There's no authority here. As the blessed Christ so beautifully put it when he um argued with Ponteus Pilate, he said uh it matters not if I live or die. There's no authority here. The stones themselves
26:57 will sing my testament. And that's so beautiful and so true. Um this is it. It's very very simply the case that this is it. Nothing needs be done. Whatever appears to be appearing is simply just what appears to be appearing. And sometimes it hurts me a little bit to formulate the sentence in that way because it sounds so very simplistic. But all I can say divine friends is join me in the the blissful discovery of the wisdom that lies hidden at the center of that sentence. There is only simply all that there is. It's simply just this. So simply just
27:44 the sound of this voice, the appearance of this meeting that it ever never actually refers to something called a Zoom meeting that people know what that is. That's an actual thing happening in time and space. This isful, total anarchy. Nobody is saying these words. Nobody's hearing these words. This isn't taking place in only location. There isn't a thing called location. There is only simply unknowably this. And this is good. Divine friends. It's unconditional love. This is your home. This is your birthright. >> Nothing stands outside unconditional
28:31 love. There is only unconditional love. That's a boom that can't be satisfied or justified with a little emoji. That was beautiful. Should we have another one from YouTube? Another pop. >> Yes. Um, if anyone wants to unmute on Zoom, obviously you're always welcome. You know that. And if you don't want to uh unmute and speak, you can always write in the chat box as well. And I'll I'll get round to reading that out. Here we are. From Tom White. Oh, Tom. Hello
29:18 there. We We met up in Brighton last weekend, didn't we? Um, when I dream, if it's the same one, I don't know how many Tom whites are out there. None at all, I imagine. Um, so when I dream at night and see a mountain one mile away, the wake daytime me can see that there was actually no distance. So it's the same with this. What can be suggested, Tom, is that the dream that you apparently had last night is more real than you. No one had a dream. Yeah. Just dreaming appearing to happen. So, and I and I don't mean that with insincerity or ridicule. It's uh it's the the divine
30:04 pointing out that everything is spacelessly this. Whether it seems to be dreaming, waking or sleeping, equinomously everything is unconditionally this. Whether it's a mountain or a sofa or a cup of coffee or a cigarette, it's like equinimously everything is this. But none of it actually revolves around someone. Yeah. So to suggest that a mountain in a dream is less real than a mountain that is seemingly seen in a waking state is uh yes it's I would suggest that that's not actually real. Um there there is no real distinction without separation anyway.
30:50 But uh what seems to be the dream the dream life or the dreaming state is I would suggest no more or less real than this appearance whether the the body appears to be waking functional sentient. Um there there are no separate things to actually compare and discern to pull apart or to piece together. Um it's only ever this really whether it's waking, dreaming or sleeping. But the illusion is that it actually revolves around someone that someone is in the dream stage that someone is in the waking state. Yes. And I would also suggest in that too is that distance is an illusion because
31:36 separation is an illusion. If there is no separation, there are no things to be separate and therefore there are no things to be distant. There's no thinks. There are no thinks. Distancelessness is immediacy and that is indescribable and incomprehensible. Mind in the appearance tries to grab that, tries to wrestle with it or understand. It's uh there's no distance to grab or to let go. Everything that ever seems to appear is immediately this. Even the grabbing is immediately this. But there's never an object to be grabbed or surrendered.
32:30 There's such total poverty because it's poverty even of the notion of orientation. M >> and so that's such a deep surrender impersonal surrender that there's an absolute surrender to the embrace of if you're going to be uh anthropomorphic or poetic about it to the embrace of God's absolute surrender into the answer of the divine mother because it's simply not possible for anything to rise up and stand in opposition to the endless expression of unconditional love and oneness that
33:16 appears to appear. Nothing is re uh rejecting it. And so everything is a surrender to oneness. All that there is is a surrender to unconditional love. There's nothing other than the perpetual timeless surrender to unconditional love. inversely but exactly the same. We can say that the natural reality and I enjoy you expressing it in these terms. The natural reality I very much see as the perfect and total invitation. Why do I say this? Of course, I don't mean a personal invitation. There are no personal people to be invited nor any place to go. But seeing how all that
34:04 there is is absolute total unknowable oneness. Being total unknowable oneness. Even if there is some reporting to be a me, if that energy, if that total oneness appears to be contracted and is reporting to be a me, all that is surrounding it, permeating it, and indeed it itself is made from that same single oneness. So it's totally surrounded by that same divinity, but that same divine oneness. All that surrounds it is that same oneness. Everywhere it looks is that oneness. Everything it thinks is that just that oneness appearing as those thoughts.
34:50 It's ever the invitation to a surrender into that nothing. There is nothing but that invitation. And further than this because that invitation is all that there is. There's no opportunity for it to be refused. So there's actually only the acceptance of this invitation. All that there is is the acceptance of unconditional love. There is nothing other than the total acceptance of unconditional love. There is not possibility for there to be anything else. That's the true nature of the natural reality. Yummy, yummy, yummy. I got love in my tummy.
35:43 Wow. >> Wow. >> Incredible. Ramen. Hello there. >> Hi there. Um, >> I'm Let me see if I can formulate this. It's not really a question, but it's it's again, I'm just enjoying listening to you and almost just trying to give you more ammunition so I can continue to listen to you. Um because I can plainly see there's no information to to to get. But when I look at a lot of, you know, the rest of us humans and like little children and so on, you can see how when how fear arises sometimes through a
36:30 painful event, like literally a physically painful event or they're bullied or what, you know, whatever it is. There's lots of painful things that happen in life and and there's some sort of retreating and formulating of all sorts of rituals and beliefs based on that. It's it's like a desperate attempt to protect something, right? and and and it seems like like literally the whole world is full of these various little rituals, beliefs, even like this idea that you know we should respect the great sages of 3,000 years ago or whatever it is like whatever these things are. They're all like just like if I put my shoes
37:16 just this way when I go to sleep like that'll keep me safe. There's like little OCD like rituals that like drench our entire lives >> and it's all seems to back into some level of fear which speaking for myself yeah there's fear of sort of social ridicule or whatever but but a lot of that is sort of like physical fear like the the roots go back to sort of like if you're ostracized by society you would be physically in danger >> and and I'm trying to get a sense from you as to in some sense physical fear must exist even if there's nobody there feeling the fear. Um,
38:01 but but how does it like like what is its I don't want to say what is its proper place as if there was a right way to be fearful and a wrong way to be fearful or whatever, >> but I'm just I'm just curious how fear plays into almost like why the rest of us don't necessarily get get whatever it is you're saying. we we sort of there's something that just vaguely resonates otherwise I suspect none of us would be here but but it's not it's not like completely landing right and and to me it has a lot to do with yeah I can comp it everything you're saying is almost self-evidently true like it's just
38:46 obvious and then fear runs rushes in and it changes the entire way I look at the world >> so much so that there's then a me and I'm was curious if you had any insight into the connection to fear. >> Yeah, I would suggest that um we could say that there's two types of fear just as a story. There's one that's the existential fear of dying. The the the me or what's called a me which isn't really a me at all. The energy which feels itself to be separate, located, finite, limited, alive, contracted maybe. And this is this comes
39:35 with it part of the package uh an existential fear of absence. And it it seems to in its own illusory bubble of being a subject reach out for objects to know, to own, to relate to. >> And all objects seem to temporarily in its own dream of continuity satisfy its uh what's the word? Gratification and objectification. As long as I have something to relate to, I am I am here. I am this. I am related. Um, and there's an existential fear that can seem to be in that
40:21 paradigm of not having something or someone to relate to. Uh and so that that is the illusory reality of separateness which feels very real and solid and it and it can for many feel very fearful. It can feel like in a perpetual state of fear or restlessness or irritability. And the other fear I would suggest is not an illusion. It's simply a physiological and biological appearance of the body's inbuilt fight and flight system to protect itself from danger to run out of the the road if a a car a fast car is coming or you know a tiger
41:07 happens to pop around a corner in the in the in the wild. you know, there's these natural fear responses that seem to be quite ordinarily, you know, ingrained and embedded in the DNA of a system to protect and survive. Um, so that's that's I think what I have to say about fear and there's more that can be said, I'm sure, but yeah, >> thanks. Thank you. It's a popular question somehow. Fear is a popular subject to talk about when it comes to this. Um, >> well, it it seems like it almost I don't even want to say one is the cause of the other. I just want to say >> it's almost like the me and the fear
41:55 some some you know you might say it's not necessarily overt the house is burning down kind of fear but some sort of background fear. >> Yes. It seems to coarise coarize with me like like >> I think it is the same energy. >> Yeah, they're two sides of the same coin. >> Yeah, I think it is the same energy. >> The sense of existing is the sense of I am and this and this is there's a there's a sort of um angst or irritability about that it would seem. >> Yeah. And the the MI project is um very much interl or interwoven with notions of meaning that my life is constructed
42:41 in this way because it's meaningful to me. This is how it's constructed and this is what I find meaningful. Now when we talk about fear the mi is a forwardlooking uh energy. It's looking forward into the future. It's projecting itself into the future. This is what's happening to me now. This is what will be happening to me then. And so to offset fear, it likes to strategize. It likes to work out plans, schemas or what AI would now call huristics, models or habituated models of mental behavior with we with which we meet certain circumstances in our life. And by doing so, we try and maximally keep uh the
43:27 benefits that we need for ourselves and keep away the fears we're scared of. Now, you talk about uh an enhanced or an increased fear in encountering this message and you're by far and away not the first to uh draw our attention to this. I would suggest what's happening is as there seems to be an apparent and we're speaking poetically here but as appears to be an apparent loosening of that contracted energy which we call the me there's a loosening of the sense of that um meanness that came with that contracted energy of which that contracted energy in fact was and as that occurs fear um will increase because there's an inability. It's like
44:14 um clutching at thin air. There's an inability to strategize when it's becoming increasingly seen. There there's nobody there to whom any of this can be meaningful who is conducting any of these actions who or indeed is there in any of the ways in which we first thought he was. And so it's not quite so much the fear that we um might take it to be, but it's the fear that arises out of confusion and discombobulation and almost even the fear of death because it's the same fear. It's the fear of not being able to strategize for I am notness. I am not here and all the confusion that that
45:01 engenders and that is fearful but that is um that why we say that the me doesn't want this the me doesn't want this at all >> it couldn't have it even if it did want it. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Then Tobias, you're very right that uh like uh Oh my god. >> You can see the sentence at Tobias Bay, right?
45:52 >> I just lost what I wanted to say. I'm sorry. >> Why? >> Oh, really? >> The fear that uh that we were just talking about. In the end, it's uh for me there was always a belief that it was related to the me, but in the end that fear is isn't owned by anyone either way anyway, right? Has there's no relation with the me. Is that so? Would you say so? >> The fear related to me? >> Yeah. Because I had that same feeling. Oh, there's a fear coming up. And for me, it was always like, oh, this is this
46:38 this is the me. It's coming up very strongly. This is related to the me. I need to kind of understand that fear and figure it out. But in the end, the fear like anything else, it just belongs to no one, right? >> Yes. Yes. The dream is a dream of ownership which as Tobias pointed out the other night, no one owns. Yeah. No one owns the dream of ownership, let alone pain or fear or anything else. And and what is also wonderfully freeing about that beyond comprehension is that fear and any other emotion or sensation is absolutely not an obstacle. Uh there may it's it would seem for some or many perhaps that there's this sense this deep rooted sense or what seems to be a deep rooted sense that there are
47:24 obstacles there are obstacles to get close you know through to get closer to reality and fear could be one of them or attachments might be another or other emotions feelings whatever but really the natural reality is all embracing as we were saying about uncondition or love. So fear is just what it is. Pain is just what it is. Sensation is just what it is. Without the storytelling and the contextualization, nothing is in the way. It just is what it is. >> Yeah. And what I wanted to say that is that Tobias said like uh confusion and fear >> you know it it doesn't come from
48:14 the confusion but because there's no uh um cause and effect but um I mean they just I don't know if they appear maybe uh at the same time or whatever. I don't know. Uh >> yes. Yes. >> And it you know the fact that the fear arise and and it's like the more the message is heard the more uh like maybe confusion can arise even more. >> Absolutely. Absolutely.
49:01 >> It sounds like it shouldn't be the case, but it can be more and more confusing because there's less and less of a person there to make any sense of what the hell's going on. >> Really, it can be very confusing. >> Yeah. >> Oh, that's nice. And could you talk about uh you know um humility? >> Humility is an incredible thing. Um I used to play humility when I was being a monk. >> You know, they used to teach us about how important it was to be humble and why it was important to be humble and how we should be humble. And um we used to have competitions who was the most humble of us all. And sometimes I I was
49:47 brilliant. I was really really really humble. >> If you do, >> I was actually I was the best at being humble. I was one of the best ever at being humble. Um no, you you see I'm being playful, but you see um the joke I'm trying to make. Um yeah, we we played at our humility. Um but the humility of which we speak in regards to this subject is the humility that can't not be brought about but when it's obscene that um none of the actions which appeared to be enacted by what you thought to be you were enacted by you. You did nothing. There is not a you there now. There has
50:34 never been a you there. It's not the case that there's a you there that might go away. As attractive as an idea as that sounds, the humility comes about from seeing that there was never anybody there who did a thing. Nor need there be. >> Nor do you have the gold in your pockets you consider to be your uh value which we call free will. Um, it's just there's nothing even there to have worth. That's how humble it is. >> There's not even an empty purse. >> There's just nothing. >> Empty what? >> There's not even an empty purse. It's
51:21 just nothing. >> An empty purse would be poor. This is total poverty, total humility. There there's no greater humility when there's zero role for you there. When you're not there, there's no contribution you've made. Even positive or negative, you're just totally insignificant. Not everyone else, just you. Okay. No, the revelation is the total insignificance of the illusory self. That that which considered itself
52:08 important beyond all measure that consider itself so important that life would not go on without it. >> Humility is seeing that when that stops, it's just body continues, story continues. And if that this dies, it would just be body or nobody. There'll be no um body to know the difference or to care. >> I suggest that's humility. >> Yeah, I love it. >> Thank you. >> Oh, it's a pleasure, darling. It's your voice. >> Mhm. Um, >> I I have to admit that uh last no show,
52:54 God, I I never been so humiliated. >> Humiliated, right? >> It it so that that's really a good thing. There's no good or bad, but you know. >> Anyway, I just want to share. >> Well, you mean humiliated by the the message that was in the no-show? >> Yes. Yeah, sure. Because the the two of you are so I mean extraordinary. It just hit like a bump. >> Sometimes when it hits it hits, doesn't it? You know, who knows why you can hear it 20 times and then when it hits it's, oh my god.
53:42 >> Yes. And there was so like so much confusion and Oh god, it I Well, anyway, >> it is what it is. >> Yeah. >> Oh, thank you. >> Divine disorientation, huh? Yeah, >> thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> Hey guys. >> How are you? >> Hi. >> Hi. How's it going? How are you? >> Hey, great to hear you again, man. How are you? >> Oh, it's good to be with you guys. >> How are you? >> Oh, not bad. Yeah, not too bad.
54:28 >> Yeah, I was going to say that. Doesn't seem very committed. Not bad. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> What's going on, man? >> Uh, well, not too much. Not too much. I was just going to ask like do you kind of think that sometimes the um the the focus on uh the idea that there's no one can sometimes get in the way of this message. Yeah, that's a it's a cracking question. I think um for for for an energy which feels like it's got an agenda, >> absolutely. Yeah, it it would it would be >> keep your friends close and your enemies
55:15 closer sort of situation. So once upon a time I was into spirituality or materialism, consumerism, ideologies, philosophies and then I found this little thing called non-duality. And now that's my pursuit to get to a desired destination. And in that it's took the same energy of perpetually feeling like it's getting somewhere. And uh of course it's not really heard because non-duality is not two and journey and destination is two. So it's imagining that somewhere is going to be reached or achieved or something is going to be reached or achieved and that someone is going to be reaching and achieving. And in that
56:03 bubble there's there's no it doesn't seem as though there's any ability to really to really in inverted commas hear the indescribable and ungraspable nature of this immediacy which is already absolutely total. So nothing is in the way really. Nothing is in the way. But it it own terms sees things in the way and that there is a way to go somewhere. >> Yes. And non-duality for its um its world is just imagining that there's there's a state or an experience that some people some speakers talk about called non-duality. Yeah. But it's not a destination. It's
56:50 this already without destination. >> Right. I think I remember you telling me that um the me will always try to find a problem somewhere. >> It's a bit storytelling and that's probably how I worded it, you know, a few months ago when we were hanging out in Montreal. >> Oh, yeah. >> Um but um >> yeah, it's it's just a story to put it that way. And I don't have a problem with with with the with the way of that being put. Um, but yeah, there there isn't actually any autonomy on any level. So, no one's ever done anything right or wrong. No one's ever took a step in a right or wrong direction because the the the absolute is directionless. Yeah. So sometimes it
57:36 feels like this can be digested intellectually or conceptually and yet >> and yet it feels like that's not really an encumbrance to it being energetically seen or understood or felt. >> Sure. >> As well. >> Yes. There can be there can seem to be an objectified understanding that there is no subject and object. >> Yeah. >> Or there could just be no subject and no object, >> right? >> Yeah. >> And the or is elusory.
58:21 >> The or is elusory. Yeah. already there's no subject or object and so there's no one to understand that there's no subject or object and I know that that sounds a bit vague or something in its wording but there just is really nothing to get yeah there's nothing to get and there's nothing to lose nothing needs to happen for this to be abundantly whole already yeah Yeah, there's not much to say.
59:06 >> It's all right. >> And no comment. >> No comment. That's all right. >> Yeah. >> Well, unless >> But thanks nonetheless. >> Oh, you're well. You're welcome. >> Yeah. Nice to hear from you again. Let's have a see what people are saying on YouTube. There's a lot there's a lot come through uh that we're going to get to answer all of it today. But uh you can always email uh me or Tobias or join in a public zoom meeting. We we do meetings each week uh both of us uh separately ironically. And uh we obviously do this one each Saturday as well. So there's plenty of opportunities to chat. But here we are. Let's have a look at what Boundless Dancing Ocean is saying, >> which is a nice name. Is it boundless ocean or boundless
59:51 dancing ocean? >> Boundless dancing ocean. >> Oh, I know. Boundless ocean. Is this a c is this a relative? >> This could well be a relative. Even though there's no relativity. >> Those questions come from nowhere, but a seemingly separate individual thinks they their thoughts questions coming from their mind body. Yeah, I would just quite briefly answer that by suggesting that abstraction is an illusion. And I don't mean abstraction as a cognitive appearance. I mean abstraction as as Tobias would put it, an energetic contextualization like an energetic field or sphere of loads of things happening. And some of those things are
1:00:38 called thoughts, bodies, minds, questions. But there are no separate thoughts, bodies, questions, minds that are actually interconnected. There are no things to be interconnected or disconnected. Immediacy is completely nothing and that's all there is. And nothing is not some black empty hole. And I feel like we have to say that every single time we say the word nothing because it seems like for many that's >> very easy to misunderstand it like that, isn't it? Like just like a simply a a real absence, a negative absence. >> Negative absence. Yeah. Yeah. Well, this is unpolarized
1:01:23 void. unpolarized void which is uh there's nothing there isn't actually anything there to be labeled or described because all labels and descriptions is that too nothing gets away from that nothing is pulled apart from that it's unabstractable unfragmented total >> I mean so-called mind which is that too it's in a way mind lives in another reality ity of abstraction. So if it tries to comprehend that, it's it's like trying to shove a square through a circular shaped hole. It just doesn't fit. Yeah. Cuz there's nothing to fit, nothing to piece together.
1:02:12 Again, speaking to the unnecessary effort and struggle that seems to be implied or required when there's that lack of ease of the simply the apparent character meeting the apparent day. And it's um there's a real lack of ease when there's that belief in that real reality that visceral reality visceral reality of that separate person and it's felt as a lack of ease because it's attendant upon it are so many imperatives that that me must be a me in this way and not in that way. And it's
1:02:58 such a dream of consequences. So it it's the crulest dream of all because it's almost dreams uh a setup and scenario in which it's doomed to fail and then sets about failing in there in that uh scenario in time which it itself has created. It's quite extraordinary. And when in reality there's nothing but the total immediacy of the unknowable. What is whatever the appearance appears to be appearing as nobody knows that it's totally free. Imagine that nobody knows this.
1:03:45 Nobody knows this. There is nobody to know this. So what's being said here is nothing. It's just words appearing. Oh, a a Zoom meeting appearing. Now, as a subject, you can take that and give it meaning and say, "This is a Zoom meeting that's happening to me, and that means this, and that means my life, this me is falling apart." And then it'll go away, and then I'll see what it's like with no me and all these crazy stories. There's just nothing. Nothing at all. Nothing or no thing appearing as everything appearing to appear as everything to no one. This isn't actually happening. It's not referring to a real thing in time
1:04:31 and space. There is no location. Nobody's saying these words. Nobody's hearing these words. It's simply just the total immediacy of what unknowably is. Yeah. >> I just got to read out this uh one comment uh before we respond to Jane who's got her hand up waiting patiently. Um cuz it's it's really beautiful. Uh where where's it gone? Oh, sorry. Yeah. User NA Media. I'm in a tricky seasonal depression north of nowhere. Sleepy or sleeping and super deprived until the end of January next
1:05:19 year. And thanks to you two, genius. Amen. Amazing Grace loves. Now I cannot stop smiling. >> A that makes me very happy to happy to hear that. >> How beautiful is that? >> That makes me very glad. >> Wow. What was the name? >> Uh, it's it's Ida. Ida. >> Hey, Ida. Blowing a kiss, darling. >> Catherine, >> really pleased to hear that. You know, I promise you. I promise you. I promise you. I totally understand. Life can be difficult. Life can suck. It can be really tricky sometimes when we're deeply invested in the belief that we're a me. We're deeply invested in all the
1:06:04 ups and downs of that life. And it doesn't always go exactly to plan. We can't control these things. And so sometimes there's things that go on that make life really, really tough. Really, really tough. >> Um, it's not like coming to this site, Alexis and I are going to be handing out tools to navigate difficult life and tell you these are the medive tools to keep you peaceful and um, calm. And I think everyone that who comes to this site who knows this subject knows that well enough. But what we do talk about here is the increasing revelation that there never was a person there making
1:06:51 all the complex decisions being the receiver of all those complex feelings. There never was a case anything other than the it being the absolute total immediacy of simply what's appearing to happen. And when there's not that central node taking as it were all the receipts and counting the receipts and counting what's good and what's bad but it's just the absolute and this isn't about uh acceptance but when it is the total immediacy of simply what is appearing as what is that's beyond acceptance. Nobody's had to accept it. It's already accepted because it's done. It's done. That's all the pressure off.
1:07:38 That's all that horrible existential pressure off because it's seen that nobody has to do anything. Nobody is there to perform any task or to go on any journey. There is simply only the whole and complete already done. Whole and complete already. And that's um doesn't require anything of anybody. And that's an invitation to the garden is play. No more games. Only play. No more games. Just play, baby. >> That's all there is. There is only the totality of the garden. There is only the totality of the acceptance of the garden. There is only the play of all
1:08:25 the divine beings playing together in the garden. There is only this one single divine glorious unconditional love appearing to appear as all of this appearing to appear as my pretty face appearing to appear as the sounds of these words and this theme meeting. There's nothing nothing at all nothing appearing to appear as all of this for now. Hi Alexis and Tobas. Nice to see you guys. >> Yay. Um uh for for this body um it seems like
1:09:15 uh in when the body in stillness um it seems like that's only this but when this body u take a walk um I think it get a little bit harder and and especially when this body talking to someone and then it's very obvious there's is still a me and others. >> So, do you have any inputs? >> What What do you mean by it's obvious that there's a me? >> I think she I think she means like when when it's in the meeting, there's a nice vibration. It's really simple, but like
1:10:01 when you're out talking to other people, then it suddenly feels like the me crowds in, you know. >> Okay. So, >> no. Amen. >> In real life when when I encounter a neighbor or somebody like have a chat, >> it's just very obvious there's still a me you know all the action. >> So it feels like this appearance is revolving around something. Is that is that is that fair to say? >> Is that what Yeah, it seems like I here is still different from there. >> You see here and there is is a distinction. It's an abstraction. It's a separate projecting that there's a here and a there and that there's a difference between the two and that there's no there isn't really a here and a there without me and there isn't a me
1:10:50 without a here and a there. So when it says that there's no me here, it's a halfway statement really. There is no here for me to be. Um the this whole sense of a center is actually an artificial illusion that has no substance or source and yet it appears or or seems to appear densely solid and sourced. Yeah. Substantial. But it's it's there's nothing actually there that is it's it's nothing appearing to be something. Yeah. Jane, can I ask you with your question? Were you also asking you know how you
1:11:36 were saying when you were talking to other people were please correct me if I'm uh wrong but from what I understood is you were also saying that you're experiencing the phenomena that when you find yourself in discourse or conversation with other people there find there tends to be um uh as it were a resolidifying of the me and a re uh accretion and a resolidifying and feeling feeling solid and real again. Is that what you're saying when you go and have those encounters? >> Yeah, it seems like so because you know I get what you're saying. That's I've heard that before. What's happening is it's like um these um I like to use the word schema. It's a word that's um or that's taken out of
1:12:23 psychology that refers to habitual patterns that the mind falls into. Right? So, if you have a sort of social group, um I I don't know if you're going to university or this is a job. Say you're at a job uh that you go to every day and you have a certain social group with your female co-workers in that job. um and you've got other friends as well, but each day you see these workers and you'll have had a very established pattern of social interaction with them that satisfies your me in its own terms. So say it's seeing itself as a middle management person in that job that you have. I don't know what you do but say say for example so each day it would be putting
1:13:10 out the effort and putting out the signals that confirm it in that context and it would be receiving that as well. So it be actively engaged in the work of the me of sustaining maintaining projecting advancing itself within its own little world and it will be busily engaged in that project. So when you encounter one of these people, wow, it'll switch on to project me and it'll get on with its work. Um whereas conversely, if you come and hang out with people like Alexis and me, you might just for an hour or two forget that you're a human being for a bit. Um and you might just look around and suddenly notice that you're in the garden, you never left. But that would
1:13:55 be the distinction that I'd make. Of course, it's not a real distinction and of course we're talking about something that's never happening and we're talking about um the nature of a dream very poetically. But in the terms that you ask your question that I do understand what you mean and that would be the answer I would give. Okay. >> Okay. Thank you. >> It's habit. >> There's a lot of habit involved in who the me thinks it is. Is this attachment as well? >> Yeah, just a bit. Yeah, totally. >> Absolutely. Absolutely.
1:14:43 >> And it's not a problem. >> Well, that's a beautiful conversion. That's the amazing thing about it. Yeah. It's it's one thing that the this illusion seems to hate hearing. >> Yet, it has to be said that there really isn't a problem. >> Yeah. I mean, not not not absolutely not. There's not an absolute problem, if I could put it that way. Yeah. >> It's not in the way of anything. >> No, there's a dream of way and ways. >> Nobody's having reality hidden from him or her by the me. There's nobody who's dreaming the dream of the me. And if they stop dreaming the dream of the me, they would then see reality.
1:15:29 >> Mhm. >> I think a lot of people harbor that notion on some level or another. I'd like to disabuse them of that. Um you know when it it is uh thought that the apparent falling away um uh is a nonappening >> and it is said it is said that uh it's energetic then can you talk about that? M >> yes >> the fact you know the fact that it's a non happening and it's energetic you know it's like uh something's happening and not happening you know
1:16:15 >> I'd like to use two metaphors for the fun of it because I do like metaphors um as you know and uh it's like a light bulb going out yeah the the a light bulb not being on is not a happening There's just no light bulb on. So, there's no one home and the and the lights the lights aren't on and no one's home. So, this is kind of a dis a divine uh disorientation, divine disorder, uh divine poverty, divine um hysteria actually. And yet that is the total natural reality. But basically there there's no light bulb when there is no one. There's no center, no sense of
1:17:02 separation. But when it seems like there is this illusory reality, it feels like there is absolutely a light bulb of awareness and it is absolutely switched on and it is aware of what it's illuminating through its awareness. Um, and so in the the absence of a light bulbby kind of energy of awareness as a centralized thing and then in that illuminating all these objects, there's no light bulb, there's no awareness, there's no one. And that's not a happening. >> It's it's the absence of a happening. And that's the first metaphor I'd like to play with. And the second one is is the absence of a headache. It's like a similar thing as though a headache
1:17:48 apparently disappears. Not to not to use it too literally because I don't want to suggest that this illusory energy is something to be gotten rid of. Certainly not with painkillers, but but as though a headache stops happening, that again, that's not a happening. That's the absence of something happening. And it's not noticed either really. I mean for most for most headaches I would suggest people don't notice that the headache has stopped happening. It's it's only when it seems to be there does it seem to be so so in the in the foreground in a in a sense like it's so seemingly present. It's so seemingly
1:18:34 there and it's on the lookout for something called not being there. Yeah. But as though this illusory headachy kind of energy or light bulbby energy disappears, there's no one there to notice that there's no one there to notice. >> Yeah. H Thank you so much for those two analogies. I like I like it very much. >> Yeah. Because you know I like the me thinks there's a process and that the light goes softly uh off but actually there's not even that happening because it's it's nonappening you know. >> Yeah.
1:19:23 You know that. >> So liberation. So liberation is a non- happening. Well then that's all there is. The non- happening of this immediacy which is nothing apparently happening and that's absolutely all. And none. Shall we leave it there? We're at 29 minutes past. Does everyone want their last 30 seconds worth? Divine divine friends like really I I really want to impress on you. It's so simple. It's not some mystical magical uh complex philosophy we need to work out. It's simply just this. The
1:20:11 simplicity of sharing this joke with some friends, of having a laugh, of having a smile, of being amongst friends and chatting, the simplicity of the sounds of the voice and the sounds being made by uh moving around in the chair, the light bouncing off the walls, all these things. simplicity of just sitting like this and it not having the burden of meaning anything at all and not being woven into the story of what's happening in my life in time and space to me. It is simply just this magical unknowable total whole complete. This is unconditional love brothers and sisters.
1:20:56 Big kiss blown to you all. A >> thank you so much. You're so great. >> Thank you. >> Great seeing you all. >> Thank you. Thank you everyone so much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you everyone. Thanks. Thanks for hanging out. See you Saturday if not before. Oh.
