0:26 All right. Well, uh, we're all live on both platforms, YouTube and Zoom. So, welcome. Welcome. >> Oh, we ready? >> Yep. So far, so good. >> At last. Wonderful. Oh, guys, let me just welcome you again now that we're properly up and running. This is the first the very first Alexis and Tobias no show. And thank you so very much for joining in. those of all those who are joining in here live in the Zoom and all those who are watching on YouTube and all who will be watching subsequently on YouTube. Thank you so much. Um yeah, let's have some fun. I'm going to hand over to Alexis to explain what it is exactly we're going to be meeting here to talk about. Um and then feel free
1:14 afterwards to unmute yourselves and we're going to see what's going to happen. Over to you, darling. Thanks love. So a welcome. This is simply an exposure. This is this is a playful celebratory exposure of what is and is not. It would seem a playful dynamic uttering of total freedom, inseparable freedom, absolute freedom, unconditional freedom. so so total, whole, boundless that is completely and utterly ineffable, indescribable and incomprehensible.
2:00 It's a play really the play that this you know these shapes and sounds, bodies, sensations, it's all just the freedom really. It's the freedom directionlessly appearing as such. And what is also exposed or proposed to some extent is that there's no origin. There's no source. There's no foundation from which any of this comes. It's so immediate. Therefore, it's so total. We are, you know, sort of talking around the absolute in the abundantly whole free sense that there's nothing else other than that. so wonderfully so it's without hope. This is a a playful
2:47 celebratory exposure that has no hope involved because there's no path to tread towards or away from the absolute. There's no effort that needs to be made or that could even be made. There is just this simplicity, the simplicity of sitting here having a chat together playfully, you know, tiptoeing and and treading and stomping around these terms, concepts and suggest suggestions. The dance of freedom is aimously everything and I would like to suggest that it's dynamically and vibrantly neutral.
3:33 Neutral may sound like something gray or bleak or bland, which is why it's purposely, apparently purposely suggested that it's vibrantly neutral. It's dynamically neutral. All there is is this totality. And we're we're sort of here to basically play and talk around that really without the agenda to change anything or anyone. No practices or or even insights really given. There's just there's just this and it's so simple that that it's not it's not something to be done. There's nowhere to go with that. It's just the
4:20 the timeless playful exposing of what is and is not. And we can talk more about certain perceptions which seem to show up. Um we can talk about that perhaps more as the meeting goes on. But it really is emphasized that this is already this is already the absolute. This is already the total the unconditional the love the love that is longed for. It's just so already, so immediate, so timelessly and spacelessly this. Well, no journey and destination in the absolute. No here and there in the absolute. No now and then in the absolute. No me and you, no cause and
5:06 effect, no subject or object. Just this. The timeless this that does not relate to or that. That is this too. It's all it's all. It's timelessly, boundlessly, absolutely all. And that's what we're here to talk about. Really lovely. There we are. That's all explained. You got it. a joke of course but after Alexis's very beautiful introduction uh it's to be remembered that the point was made that there's no journey and it's an
5:52 appropriate point to remind everyone here at the beginning of the first of these meetings that there is no journey that anyone is going to be taking here with us separately together or in any way. There's no direction in the totality of what unknowably is. There's no such thing as orientation or direction without that central me feeling. So there's no journey that's going to be taken to what already is. But it might appear to appear like a journey and that we can talk about that. that as long as it's always known that it's only ever that one totality appearing to appear as a journey. No
6:39 real journey is taken when there's already only simply this. So guys feel free to unmute yourself. Um uh we might have some questions from YouTube as well. Um and uh join in to share question provoke prod tickle do as you wish. Hi Tobias and Alexis. I'm so happy. >> Hello. Good to see you darling. >> Fine. Um I just Well, it's going to be a a storytelling. Um young I was all well I always didn't understand when someone died that the whole world didn't stop.
7:24 I It didn't make sense. How could there be um people to be or live or live or continue to live life, you know? And um I refer to the return of the factory uh setting that the me cannot believe, you know, uh like the me cannot believe the the the the world goes on without the me. But it's already >> Yeah. Is it It's inconceivable to the Mi. It's inconceivable. >> Part of the Mi's whole drama is it is at
8:12 the center of it. >> So the whole drama of life and I mean the whole drama of life is how it appears to me and how I relate to it. So the me it can't help but to do that. And that's the fantastic shock that it's never actually a thing that's there doing that or even that that's a that being done. It is itself the notion of the whole idea of things being done and people doing them. >> Um yeah sorry carry on. I I I got a feeling I interrupted you going to a specific question. No, like the MI, you know, doesn't well um was never well the MI
9:00 won't believe that uh it was never there or it never needed to be there or even that that the me never can be there because >> it's already it I have no question but I just you know I was just referring to the the federal the the the return of factory setting that I love that. >> Yeah, that was the best way I could manage to describe it. It's um Yeah. Um no, thank you. Thank you for sharing it and it's a uh it's an absolutely valid observation. It's it's funny because the two properties or or the the two things
9:45 we're talking about are so interlin that they kind of live and die together in the poetry of what we're talking about. So that mi's belief that it is real and actual is the terms in which it places all that it appears to see. So it lives in a world of the real and the actual and it includes in that its life and its free will. And so like the idea that anything would go on in its absence is just be utterly beyond comprehension. But just to be clear, um it it's even worse than that because the whole idea of going on belongs to the mi. So what exists
10:31 after the me to speak highly poetically is just the impersonse seeing that that was the MI is an illusion. It doesn't exist and there never was time in which it had not existed. The only thing one can say is is absolutely totally simply just this and there's no second line that comes after that because that it's so very much this that it never means anything. It never means that. So it's always the explosion. It's always the hand grenade being pulled and the total immediacy of what is. And so that there's no such thing called a
11:16 past. Uh th this hasn't come from anywhere. There can be the story of the past, but that's just total immediacy and oneness appearing as the story of the past. And again, no one's telling it. This is so surprising that uh this like this impression or this thing you know we call me it seems so real you know it's just apparent and and but it seems so real. Well, do you know just sorry to uh interrupt that it's not that it seems so real. It is itself the notion of the real. >> Sorry, Alexis, would you agree to that
12:02 subtle distinction there? >> Yes. It seems to be a world of solidity and yet there's nothing there to be solid. Yeah. It's a total upside down, back to front, and inside out illusion. >> Yes. Totally. >> Yes. >> Used a metaphor earlier in the Brighton meetings that um it's a bit like a hamster hamster running on a wheel and yet nothing is actually there. The hamster is a phantom >> like a made of a whisp of smoke and it's just running around and around and around feeling like it's going somewhere getting it's progressing to the end of the wheel and all that seems to be is some sort of cyclic energetic
12:49 contextualizing solid dense felt reality visceral and embodied and yet it's absolutely nothing gloriously so. And it's not a problem. Again, I h in a way I feel somewhat almost obliged to say that because what's heard is often that there's some kind of problem like the the hamster wheel is a problem or the hamster is the problem and that that needs to stop and that's obviously just another story it would seem to tell itself. That would just be another >> Yeah. >> Yeah. If immediacy is just appearing as a a dream of a of a someone, well, that's what's uh appearing to happen or
13:34 appearing to appear. >> Yes. Yes. And what is seemingly unfathomable about all of this is that that wheel is is really not actually there. Like the storytelling is just storytelling. It's not actually made of anything. And that the sensation is just a sensation without the contextualizing it. It's It's not actually anything other than what appears to be happening. >> Yeah. Liberation. >> So remarkable that the story still appears, but it's just oneness appearing as that story. And the story never refers to an actuality. It never refers to separate solid objects that are real in space moving in real
14:21 time. That's the story. But the story appears to appear. But it's just that just that. >> This is so stunning, you know. >> Stunning. That's immediacy. It's stunning. >> It's It's too close to see and too simple to understand. Really, it's too close to see because to see it, you'd have to step back as a a subject and view it as an object. It's too close. The seeing is it too. It's that immediate >> and even calling that uh you know seeing talking uh I mean touching or whatever
15:09 it this is even too much. We'll go easy with you, hug. >> Thank you. >> God bless you. >> Thank you. >> Should we switch to YouTube? Just say a few hellos there. >> Yeah, please. >> So, uh quite a few people commenting through. Uh, welcome to the illusion of you. Ola friends they say. >> Ha. >> Byron Anomaly. That's a great name, isn't it? >> Welcome. Monkington Everjet. Uh, I think
15:56 that's it so far. But, uh, Byron says, "Emptiness echoes vacancy poses disappearance. Vibes stories bore to dissipated practice." Wow. followed by >> form radical nonjulit prop poetry like it. >> It's like >> dig it. I like it. This isn't a subject that behoves us to take seriously. >> Taking this subject seriously and treating it as something that we must study, work out and calculate is the exact opposite of what's being suggested. It's really strangely beautiful and wonderful that
16:43 at the same time we can all meet together like this so many of us and discuss these extraordinary things. Yet at the same time there be if anything an increasing clarity that that supposed additional knowledge will lead us nowhere. There is nowhere for us to be led nor any us to go there. There is always just simply the totality of just what appears to be appearing. And it's always only ever stories of orientation. >> So there's no getting of this because there's no one who would be the getter. And how would somebody get what already is total, whole, and complete, so immediate that the sounds of this voice,
17:31 the sounds that are making these words in this Zoom meeting, that's what total oneness is appearing to appear as, but it never actually means that. It's too wild and free and unknowable. It's simply just this. Right on. >> I do really I do really oops, sorry. I do really like when you say have her get her or obtainer or or you know maintainer. >> I like that. >> It's it's funny. It is a the MI energy is a dream of uh ownership as well as being the owner of thoughts and feelings
18:18 and the hav of this experience. But and that's the the most beautifully discombobulating and bewildering words that I love when they float through the energy of these meetings is when it's pointed out that the me is such a dream of ownership is such a dream of having and such a dream of getting being the have of that experience and being the feeler of that emotion. But the amazing thing is that's what constitutes the illusion of the person. So there's no real person who is having that dream of being a have and there's no owner of that dream of
19:04 ownership and there's no feeler of that dream of being the one who's feeling all those uh emotions or experiences. It's a dream of ownership that no one is owning. And so that's how much this me, as substantial as it thinks it is, it's nothing. It's floating in nothing. Nothing floating in nothing. It's just the energetic habitual contextualization of oneness in a energetic structure of time and space around me. That is not a person in the terms which a me considers itself. And that's amazing. It's just that's annihilation.
19:56 Spiritual annihilation. I love the word annihilation. Why? Why is this so hard? Like you know be Yeah. before the factory resets. But when there is a me, why is it so hard or impossible seemingly for this to be heard? It almost seems vague, a little bit fake now. Why is that? >> I don't know. Why is that such a a problem? Or why doesn't it want that? It's It seems a little bit forgotten. Like why does it not hear? >> It's unobjectifiable. What what's being exposed is like an empty envelope. I I seem to use a lot of metaphors for some
20:42 reason or other. Um, and one of them is the is the metaphor of the empty envelope. You see, I I the dream of of subjecthood. I'm always relating to a thing, to an object that I think I know, that I think I own, that I think I relate to. And what's what's revealed is that these words that appear to be chaotically just outpouring from nothing have no content inside of them. So they are just completely unobjectifiable which leaves nothing for that which would feel it could have right. Um so if it if there's nothing to actually objectify then it it just can't hear this because it's it's absolutely unobjectifiable
21:28 which is totally Disorienting. Really? It's disorienting. >> Sorry. Just hold on. >> Hi, Evan. >> Oh, hi. >> Hold on. >> One sec. One sec. >> All right. Unless you wanted to be unmuted. >> Yeah, I was just apologiz No worries. Nothing to worry about. Um, yeah. So it's like in a way um I'll just expand on that metaphor if if that's okay with everyone if it's not too boring or arduous to hear but um it's like >> every time I get something I I'm it's like I'm receiving an envelope through the post through my post box of subjecthood and I and I and I open the
22:15 envelope and I re you know there's a letter involved and I deem it pleasant or unpleasant. It's something that I that I I kind of chew on it and I digest it and I absorb it. Whether that's a substance, a person, a place, an obsession, a possession, um, or a state of mind. Um, but with this, with the total exposure of, you know, complete, absolute timeless oneness. It's like an empty envelope. And so it looks inside the envelope and there's nothing there. And it's like, what the hell does that mean? It can't do anything. And so instead it very quite easily uh tends to look at the envelope itself and see what that's about. Like what's this empty envelope about? There's some kind of enigma here. Some kind of mysterious
23:01 hidden code >> and it's just an empty envelope. Yeah. There's nothing there. >> Yeah. It can't imagine any alternative. Uh it's just Yeah, it's just incomprehensible to it, I guess. Uh >> utterly utterly divine. divinely incomprehensibly nothing. >> Yeah. >> You know, Jordi, I I think also that there's something funny about when uh uh energetically something that's reporting itself as being a me, as being alive and real as a me encounters something that doesn't see it. And energetically the the the this is all energy but the energy that seems to
23:47 appear in and around this message it doesn't recognize the energetic presentation of Jordi and in some way it feels that and it finds it difficult in the same way Alexis was talking about the um it finding it difficult as a subject to relate to an object that isn't there uh that also or oneness that has no objective qualities. In the same way, there's that confusion that's felt energetically with the me in organizing itself in the patterns that re represent that mihood in its terms of being Jordi. This is me. This is Jordi. And that spin is compromised in the as it were the
24:32 energy of absolute timelessness of spacelessness of oneness that isn't seeing separation and it's clutching at it but there's nothing there and it it doesn't have strategies to deal with things that aren't in time and space. That's not how the MI has ever understood itself. And so for some subtle totally inexplicable reason and we're talking poetically about incredibly subtle energies in encountering this message that circular um what's sometimes called the contracted energy or the condundalini or the embodied energy that circularity that goes round and round questing and looking out and confirming itself and
25:20 this not being it. It has to be that and going round and round. That cyclical energy is highly compromised when it's not recognized and when it's not supported and when there's not the cooperation that's apparently energetically given to it in normal apparent society >> it's completely dis disorienting to it completely >> and and and and I wanted to say Tobias when you were speaking earlier about that uh that whole construct of Jordy or you know Tobias or Alexis or anyone here is not seen. I have so I have such a deep deep deep gratitude for for this uh
26:05 meeting and these like meeting these people that uh don't see each other in that way. I like that is that is something that I >> that's beautiful man >> not value but it's something amazing and I'm I'm deeply deeply grateful for that. So yeah thank you for for everyone >> thank you. Yeah, thank you for saying that. That's beautiful. It it's felt the same here to this message to Alexis to the other people who influenced this as well. And like you know that self being the feeling of separate separation that self-consciousness that feeling of weight on us that we have to do this with our free will when suddenly there's the absolute lack of
26:53 judgment. That's like almost saying it's all right. It's okay. There's not actually a problem >> and this is it. >> And that's a relief. >> Yeah. >> It's a relief from the tension that constitutes the idea that Jordi is separate and real as opposed to what Jordih secretly is, which is infinite unconditional love. But don't tell anyone I said that. Yeah. Um I understand you know for for you Jordi and for all my wonderful for all our wonderful divine friends watching here you know I totally totally get it. It can be hard sometimes. It can
27:41 be difficult. Life can feel a real difficulty and a drag. And that is precisely the tension that we speak about, that bondage, that tension of feeling that separate existence where everything's on your back, isn't it? It's down to you with your free will. That's a lot of tension. Now, just to be clear, it's not a tension that um uh uh anyone individually is the feeler of that tension is what actually constitutes that feeling of personhood. So when that's relaxed and let go of, there's nobody inside going, "Oh, that's wonderfully free." There is only freedom. It's pure freedom appearing to appear as whatever freedom so free. It just
28:28 there's no notion of bondage. It's just unconditional love because there's nothing that could ever possibly refuse that which totally is. Yeah. >> Thank you. >> So the that pressure feeling machine of the me is no more. We could say >> Yeah. Thank you so much both. It's one of my favorite activities right now connecting with with you people. >> Well, it's great to have you, man. Much love everyone. Thank you. >> We love you.
29:18 >> So, uh, just by the way, um, yeah, go. Um, I'll just say in a second, uh, Ben, um, anyone who wants to ask anything anonymously, that really is totally fine. You can always chat in the chat box and send it privately or publicly. It's totally up to you. And, uh, that goes for YouTube as well, obviously. Um, yeah. So, if anyone has any questions or things they want to ask but don't want to unmute or uh be off the recording, that that's totally fine. I think Ben was going to say something and then we'll come to J. >> How you doing? >> Hey. >> Yeah. >> Um, thanks for this and um it is it's like it's just love the it's just a pure message of love that's shared in these
30:05 these things. It's It's fantastic. You I don't seem to get that anywhere else. Um and um it's like it's like a love letter, isn't it? But in a [ __ ] empty envelope. >> Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. Um I wanted to get your guys take on um on something that I heard Jim say Jim Newman say. Um, and he was talking to a guy and he was saying they were talking about um, nighttime dreams. And when I'm in the middle of a nighttime dream, my past in that dream is totally assumed. You know, I don't stand there in a nighttime dream go, "How the [ __ ] did I get on this planet?"
30:50 You know, it's just I'm on the planet. I'm running from the alien and I'm totally in it. you know, and he said, "What makes you think that you that's not the case right now?" You know, >> that there is a totally assumed past >> that is completely real to the me and and and and is completely unquestioned because it feels so real, >> but yet obviously where is it? >> Yeah. Um, so but I think I remember ages ago hearing something like Roman Mahashi say that there's the short nighttime dream and the long dream and this is the long dream, you know. Um,
31:38 >> what would you what would you guys say about that? Well, the the analogy of the alien is I think it's either very uh heavily inspired or it's basically the same anecdote of uh I think it's um either a Zen or a Dowist master is uh meditating one day and his little his little student comes up to him and says he tells him all about a dream he had last night and he dreamt he was a butterfly and the the Zen master uh says to him, "Well, how do you know that you're not a butterfly dreaming that you're a Zen monk?" >> Yeah, it's same kind of thing, isn't it? Yeah. >> It's that kind of like flipping everything on its head. But but but essentially what what is pointed out is
32:24 that the there continuity um is an illusion. It's part of the illusion of separation and that would include now and then. So long and short are both relative in that sense. Um, so this this illusion may seem very long or it may seem very short, but either way, it's actually timeless. It's the timeless whole, the appearance of totality seeming to be timely. Um, but yeah, there there's no reality to it. It's totally timeless. There's only timelessness. Yeah, immediiacy. >> Never been a before. There's never been a one second ago, you know, like there's no there is actually no edge to this
33:10 which is timeless, you know, like there's no such thing as before. There's no such thing as after. There's no there's no such thing as 5 seconds from now. It's completely immovable. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because it's like the the personal history. Let's say I've got a brother. We grew up together. We did X, Y, and Zed. I lived in Australia for a while. D all of that is so seemingly real. >> But yet it can never be experienced outside of a memory. Now, you know, it's >> it's even more magical than that because, you know, just to go back to
33:56 the start of your sentence when you were saying, you know, I grew up with a brother. I went to Australia. I did and all this and that. And the longing is to append on the end of that sentence apparently. Apparently that's what happened. And even to say that's what happened is to imply that there was time for it to happen in. So what we can say is that's how oneness appears to appear. And now inverted commas it's appearing to appear as a memory. So it's never referring to something solid. It's always just the total oneness of that appearance. Now, when there's something feeling separate that's moving against a background and feeling time and constructing that idea
34:42 of time, that will be put in a linearity that's real. So, that really happened to me 20 years ago with a real separate person called my brother. To me, a real separate person and that was real. And that makes that story of life and time. Um that is part of the the the product of that contracted energy called the me that feeling that time is real. But um the extraordinary I know you're what you're wrestling with, but the extraordinary thing is it's not that there's um it's just a an infinite now. It is timeless. This is just totally without time. It doesn't sit in time. It oneness can appear as apparent time but there's no
35:30 real time. Um so memories are just uh painted with the as it were with that energetic reality that means that they're real events that really happened to me. Mhm. >> Question about um >> so this is the absolute appearing relative. Right. >> Well, it's only appearing relative to the illusion of the mi. The illusion of the me >> creates the Sorry, if that's what you meant, then 100%. Yeah. It's the notion the the contraction of the mi that engenders the notion of the relative.
36:17 The relative would only exist in duality of course um because it's just the absolute appearing as the notion of the relative never as the relative. >> So yeah so if if there is an illusory center then it will that then it becomes relative real solid to that >> it doesn't become it. the illusion is of reality and solidity. So there there's no there's a a temptation of the energy of the me to sort of hope that there's some place where there is something real and solid in some formulation of this sentence. I'm going to be able to carve out an area where conceptually there is something real and solid solid. No, mate. No. You pull the pin on the hand
37:04 grenade and it goes boom. Those notions are destroyed. So like there is no reality or solidity to be found anywhere other than in the terms in which the illusion of the me imagines it. So an illusion of solidity and reality is neither solid nor real. >> Yeah. And so so without without that illusion the appearance is purely absolute. Um well there is only the absolute and you know we could we can say there's only the absolute and it appears to appear as all of this but that's pushing so far into the unknowable and the unsayable that that it's it's it is pure
37:51 poetry. It's just the unknowable absolute is indefinable indescribable. It doesn't have objective qualities. It's too whatever said is that too. Wherever it's pointed is that to the pointing itself is that too. There's nothing that isn't it. It is one total and whole. So there's no sort of stepping back from it and negotiating with it. It's too immediate. Um groovy. >> Yeah. from from my experience of it, it's um it seems to be whatever is rec whatever recognizes this or remembers it um it's it's almost like a
38:37 an inclination to fall back into unknowing to fall into unknowing. But when that is there's there's a there's a lot of fear around that because it feels like it's weird. It feels like unknowing is home, but unknowing is terrifying. >> And to fall into that, if I do that, then I die. >> Yeah. >> Alexis, do you want to? >> Yeah. >> Beautifully put, by the way, and beautifully honest. I'll let Alexis grab that. It can seem like there's a particular perception that is awake and aware to what is appearing to happen which is an illusory misperception of this reality sensed as a subjective center that is objectifying this appearance turning it into a thing and
39:22 knowing about it and as though that whole reality is being challenged and provoked confronted in a way without the intention to do so. It just is the pointing out that that's that's an unreal structure and there can apparently in the appearance of it be a fear a fear response to that. But there can also be a great deal of relief and a homeliness as you say a coming home to the to the absence of knowing and it's uh it's total freedom. But of course I really would not like to suggest that that is an actual happening or a process of any kind. It is the it is the sort of falling away of of any sense of process
40:08 falling away of any sense of anything actually really happening. So then it's just yeah it only ever comes back to this. It only ever comes back to this utter abundant simplicity. Yeah. Yeah. >> Awesome. Well, then let's say one last thing and then I'll let somebody else go. >> Sure. Sure. Sure. >> Um I love my what I love with analogies and and and story is things like Adam and Eve like how clear that is Adam and Eve. And the same I think it's it's I think it's mirrored in Pandora's box. So Pandora's box o opens the box. Same with Eve
40:55 eating the the fruits of knowledge. Opens that book box and then all of the world's troubles come out of it. And at the right at the bottom, the deepest darkest thing in that box is hope. >> Yeah. >> Because hope keeps me in the future, keeps me in one day this will change. And all of the seeming society is based around that. What do you hear all the time? You got to exert effort. so that one day you can become the thing that you want to become. That's it. That's that's it's just it's such a trap seemingly, Rob. But um I'll let you guys riff on that anyway and I'll just thank you so much for this meeting. I appreciate you both. >> Yeah. God bless you.
41:42 >> Hope's really saying this isn't it, isn't it? >> Yeah. >> This isn't it. Let's hope for something over there. Um it's again that energetic apparent tendency of the mei to be an outward seeking searching propensity to never see or never imagine that there's absolutely no problem whatsoever. Even the me that we speak of, it's not in the way of anything. it it's there's no person that's having this oneness obscured or oluded by the me. It's just that energetic feeling that this is all real and happening in time and space to
42:30 this center. And without that nothing can be said just other than the spontaneous bowing down to just the unconditional love that is the absolute absence of rejection. This is the opposite of hope, which sounds so beautiful and hopeful that we're talking about the total unconditional love and the inability for anything to stand up and object to the simple humble totality of what appears to be, of what is is what is simply is simply unknowably as itself. Simply as this, nothing is standing against it. And um
43:18 yeah, that's real freedom. That's that's the real freedom. And yeah, you you mentioned like a falling back into nothing. Of course, that does is a little poetic and it makes it sound personal, but it's no different to the word freeall of which I'm an enormous fan. Falling back into nothing. Yeah. it. But I I'd tweak that and say it's more like it's um the notion of somethinghood falls back into nothing. >> The notion of the actuality and rigidity of separation tumbles into the revelation of total oneness.
44:06 It's such a joke because of course we think oh right okay so what would that mean if I think that then maybe I can work that out and if I twist that idea over there then that will and it's just the shocking revelation is the total immediacy of simply what is this is it this this is it and when people used to say that or speakers used to say that to me it was almost like something would rise up and reject that. You know, it wasn't like a philosophical unwillingness for that to be the case. It was a a a visceral existential no, this can't be itness was revealed as implicit or inherent
44:54 within the energy of that me that contraction. It's a seeking energy. It's a looking energy. It's a looking away energy. And it's not about uh uh a practice of extraordinary acceptance or equinimity that we're exposing where one just accepts everything that appears. No, it's the pointing out that there's nothing separate to accept whatever appears. It's just the totality of the appearance appearing as it appears is simply impossible to refuse. It's just already the case that it is total whole and complete and everything is annihilated as it tumbles into that truth.
45:41 >> It's the black hole at the heart of this magic. >> Could I ask a question with >> a little introduction? I guess I'm like many people. I'm somehow suspended between heaven and hell as a human. Um and um I kind of I I started watching uh Alexis first and then uh got connected somehow by an algorithm to to bias and and indeed I wanted to ask about this um the usage of the words um unconditional love or the beloved or the way you guys
46:29 describe what you're pointing to or experiencing. I don't even know if that's the right word. >> Um, but indeed just to say both of you exude a kind of like mommy and daddy love, right? And ironically, ironically, I get more of the mommy affection from Tobias and more of the daddy affection from Alexis. >> Um, >> I'm secure enough in my masculinity that I can take that. Yeah, which is which is which is great. I mean that I wouldn't even be on if I hadn't sensed that >> kind of affection whereas in a sense from other non-radical duality uh
47:14 speakers who I've not spoken to. Um I have to say I get a kind of aloofness. Uh I can sense that look they they're still pulling the rug from under me like I'm the me and me is trying to stand up and they're just like right. So there's still a punchline, but but I don't get the sort of the the warmth or anything that even is a human incarnation of unconditional love coming through. So I very much appreciate the two of you and it's a great partnership. Um, but I did want to say that since I can we are only talking about this and there and I completely get I can completely see any thought of the future is merely a thought of the future. Any thought of
48:00 the past is merely a thought of the past. >> But when I feel like okay I feel okay that's like right now I have I feel like I'm having a mammallike response. I have a certain level of mammal fear and being in an slightly dangerous world and I have a certain amount of mammal hunger for love in all its different forms that mammals can experience. And I'd have to say therefore I'm sort of coming at it with a kind of animal sense to it. And I get the sense that when you guys speak of um unconditional love, when I first hear that, it's like the mammal in me is like, "Ah, I can get something."
48:46 >> But it's not like that's quite on offer. Like it's possible in the outside in the outside world I may or may not get that kind of love and affection. And indeed, I get some of it just by listening to you guys as human beings. But the the message that seems to be here is something which is more constant uh unremitting than the animal kind of love I may or may not get at any particular time. >> And yet I don't feel like so I'm just saying I I I don't I don't feel that. And and I have heard Tobias say, you know, even in the worst of situations, somewhere deep deep deep inside, you will feel a little bubble of yes.
49:33 >> And and I'm I'm like, is there no way like not tomorrow, not in the next minute, but right now you can even speak poetically, however, metaphorically, I don't care. Any way in which you just do the surgery on me so I can taste just a little bit of this. Yes. >> Oh. Isn't that beautiful? Can I Can I just commend you by the way because that's 100% how I used to sort of thing I used to say to Alexis to other speakers as well. Yeah. Yeah. That was a beautiful question. What was your name again? Sorry mate. >> Ramen. >> Yes. >> Well, that was wonderful. Uh, beautiful question. I I mean and doing it in the
50:19 next not in the next hour or half hour or a minute but right now I mean could I not do it timelessly? I mean that that is the sort of after all what we're talking about. But to to to be as honest as I can with you, there was a time where so strong was the supposition that something had to occur to make it so to make me get this in whatever way that I imagined one got it. that I remember speaking to Jim on the phone once and really badgering him saying, "Look, okay, so from the apparent time where you were reporting to a me to where that me wasn't there, something something must have been like
51:07 that within that night, within that hour, there must have been that something that triggered or changed a thinking in some way." and which is very much sort of uh uh you know tangential to the question or similar to the question you posed and Jim said well you know what the the what h what what changed before I said what and he said nothing and again and again pointing out there that this isn't something that happens it's the end of holding on to the belief that something must happen for this to be whole and complete. Right? So, it's not even like that something must happen or I must let go
51:54 of that idea. It's just it's already the case that it's done. And it's only the energy that says no, this is it. This isn't it. It must be somewhere else that is uh claiming to experience the discomfort of that. So, nobody can let go of that. It's just a deepen a deepening seeing that even the tension implied in your question isn't owned by anyone. Even that question that apparently was asked a moment ago occurred in a time that doesn't exist as real. Where is that question? It's just the talking about that question is now
52:40 what's appearing. It's not even pointing to something real. Nothing's ever been pointed to. This is a total collapse of any idea of orientation, riidity, path, promise, process, and even the ideas and that you're having, they'll all fall apart because they're all based upon the idea that something's wrong, something has to change for it to be right. And guess what? Even that feeling of something wrongness is perfect whole complete absolute oneness appearing as that appearance of feeling of separation and the confusion of separation. But it's never not the case that there's not totally whole and complete.
53:26 Alexis, do you want to add something there? >> Yeah, it's it's not to be found in a state. It's just simply everything. The the yes that I long for is too immediate, too already, and too boundless for any kind of knowing of it. So, it's not like, you know, some tingles in the blood or or or condundolini shakti energy sort of shaking around. is is like going to get you closer or further to this unconditional love which we somewhat loosely talk around and yet never really about. It is so total that it is even the reaching for it. It's even the hand that tries to grab.
54:14 Yeah. It's it's just so total. It's the simplicity of this. It's the simplicity of looking at a screen and listening to words and sitting on a chair and whatever else may seem to be happening. It's it really is that simple and natural and ordinary. But this kind of contextualizing energy sort of in a way makes this seem like it's energetically charged with momentum to get to a destination a moment from now. And that kind of anticipatory energy is in a way overlooking the natural vibrant immediacy of this freedom. Yeah. And that anticipatory energy is just exactly the same love as
55:00 well of course. But it's love looking for love and it never finds itself by running after itself, chasing after itself >> or resisting what is. It just is what it is. Again, without that contextualization, there's nothing to wait for or anticipate. It's already the simplicity of this sitting on a chair. It just isn't knowable, that's all. And that that's it. It's just so so it it's so this. Yeah. >> Thank you. that in a sense I it's not like I've suddenly found the bubble of yes in those words but but it does but I think both your words they do have this sense of sort of
55:45 pulling the rug out from under my question um >> in the most loving way possible >> in the most exact >> you know you mentioned pulling the rug out from under the question and it it's very true because it's not like Alexis or myself is ever providing information which is going to give an answer that's going to uh uh take you to a conclusion that is aha now I get it. So it is like pulling the rug out but as you mentioned before um a rug can be pulled out rapidly from under one's feet or you can let someone slam into a brick wall in when you were talking about being very very kind and thank you for that by the way and saying how you enjoyed the presentation here. Personally, I like to
56:33 see someone fly out on their magic carpet of me and to slowly examine the threads as we pull them out one by one very gently and it kind of sags in the middle and the magic carpet doesn't fly so good and it gets kind of low to the ground and you'll suddenly find you've been standing in the garden all along. And um that's the beauty of unfolding. And I'm going to uh I know that sounds like a process, but I'm going to try and illustrate it how total and immediate it is by um uh I I think I I think you know, how did you put it? Let me just try and remember how you put it. Um
57:20 I I I can't remember how you put it, but you were referring to um a metaphor I'd used maybe a few weeks ago about that little bubble of Yes. >> Yes. Um uh and so it I'd mentioned that and it was a an unusual and playful and poetic idea, but to return to it for a moment and if anyone's not heard of this that what what it hinges around is the notion that there's always a subtle invitation almost thrumming in the natural reality. And what I was saying is even when it appears like that there's the a reporting of a story of the most contracted me and I feel separate and all these things are happening to me and uh judged by the terms of life things
58:05 are really awful right now. What I was saying is underneath that to speak poetically and right underneath that and a little further still is this tiny little bubble of an ascending bubble of growing. Yes. Just going yes. Energetically there really is at the center of that energy just at the bottom an ascending little bubble that goes yes. Yes. And energetically that is the profound impersonal acceptance of the total melting into what is. And I'm speaking highly poetically. That yes is the same yes that thousands of thousands of people
58:51 all over the world scream each night as they hold their lovers in their arms is the same tension that is held and then released. But we're talking about an existential orgasm here, not the uh uh we're talking more macrocosmic than microcosmic. But that tension of held meanness of mihood is released and that energy just flies out into the ends of the universe because it is the universe. It created the notion of the universe as a real thing and then it's just emptiness beholding emptiness and glory glory glory and that's all that there is.
59:37 >> Yeah. I listen I listen to your words mostly as kind of like it's like doing a kind of surgery on me like I don't have to actually >> parse them. >> Absolutely right mate. Absolutely right. >> So >> thank you. >> Yeah. >> God bless you mate. It's nothing but the highest joy for this to do it. Believe me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's it's my it's not my words aren't important. They don't point to anything. There's no authority here. This is all about energy. >> Um Jane has very patiently had her hand off. So uh let's let's chat. >> Hi Jane. >> Hi uh Alexis and to um earlier Alexis
1:00:25 say there's no source to this. >> Is it just like everything in the dream at night apparently happened from nowhere? It's Yeah. I mean, it's absolutely sourceless. Yeah. It's It's absolutely There There's no orientation. There's no things. There's no location. It's like it's completely ineffable. Like there aren't actually separate things to be located or dislocated even that there just is the the vibrant immediacy which would apparently in it in a description at least equate to deep dreamless sleep. No things, no objectification, no awareness, no doer, no storyline really. I mean,
1:01:10 storytelling as well would just be the deep slumber. It's total. It's just total. Yeah. There's nothing, you know, there's there's no becoming in that. It's completely timeless, spaceless, conscious. It's it's the like dynamically nothing and everything. Yeah, that's all I can say. So, so it's also like um everything in the universe just apparently happened like a blink of eye. It's just it's not like a one generating another. >> No, there's no continuity. Yeah. It's timeless. This is this is absolutely timeless. Yeah. >> Okay. I have another questions for the
1:01:56 uh appearance. Even the appearance right in front of the computer now. So what what's the appearance package? Like we know the computer have a lot of parts but a lot of is not sense by the human human senses. Is that also included? >> It's all there is. Again it's it's unabstructed. It's not fragmented w without a storytelling and abstractional energy and contextualizing a separate thing called a laptop and a separate thing called a body. You know without that abstracting separate things happening and relating to each other. It's it's all just it's all the ineffable the indescribable the total stark wonder of nothing being
1:02:41 everything. Yeah. But what I mean is for the parts within the laptop is not seen by the human body. Right? Is that also included in the package? >> But that's the story. You see that there's a separate laptop and a separate pair of eyes and one seeing the other. That's the story of abstracting subject and object. >> Yeah. But what I mean is even within this appearance for those things >> not sensed by the human. Yeah. Because the human senses are very limited. Right. >> But you're telling an abstractional story, my love. I'm I'm apparently exposing that this is it. Like the that
1:03:28 this is it. This this this is it. And this is it. And and this is it. Like >> so no more digging. So more no more digging, right? >> No more digging. No. No. Cuz there's nothing to be found. There's nothing to be located. It's >> And the spade is it, too. >> Yes. Yeah. The spade is it too. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Whatever you find, whatever you seem to find, it's just it's only ever this. You see, whether I'm finding a spade or I'm finding to some finding something to dig with my spade, all I'm ever finding is what is. Yeah. It's too simple to to
1:04:15 kind of make some sort of path or journey out of. Yeah. >> Imagine that, guys. I mean, think about what Alexis just said. I mean, it's it it never used to please me very much when people said it's so simple because I never found it simple. But there's such a simplicity that the me is just staggered by it. It just can't imagine it. the simplicity and almost like the permission for the appearance just to appear as it appears. For it not to be burdened with the implication that it must carry with it meaning and uh orientation and context.
1:05:02 is just very free and spontaneous and natural and immediately permitted in unconditional love to be unknowably itself. And so there's nothing that we can work out from that. It's a mi's energy that will then look at that and go well okay so that means that and that means this and ideas and thoughts and uh working out can still appear but it's just the appearance of oneness appearing as working out again there's nothing real in time and space and separate to which it actually refers the me is the dream of the real and the actual but it itself self is neither.
1:06:00 The swirling vortex cosmic tornado made of nothing at all. And it's funny because a me when they um appear to hear this message and like what it seems to have on offer, they'll often uh be ideas about uh peace and detachment and freedom and uh maybe even a bit of an idea about unconditional love. All those ideas will be being seen in the conditioned and limited and relativistic terms of the subject of the mei. So when it talks about unc love,
1:06:47 it's talking about conditional love, not unconditional love. Uh it only knows the conditioned and the limited. And the mi is essentially a dream of that conditionality and limitation. And at the end of that, it's just an indescribably immediate explosion of just what is so totally immediately just what it is. That it's never space to step back enough and to know it or to relate to it or to fear it or to orientate around it. It's so such immediiacy that even such a attempt at stepping back would be it
1:07:34 too. So even the illusory stepping back of being a me of being stepping back and being a subject is just that oneness too appearing as that and nobody is having that illusion. That illusion is a dream or illusion of having of being real and having that life. Nothing is having the illusion of having. And this is happening in no place. There is no here without that contracted energy of the me. That contracted energy of the me is what engenders the notion of here. Here is where I am. Where are
1:08:20 you? I am here. And without here, there's no there. And so there's the appearance of space, but it doesn't have any energetic notionality of there being real here, there. There's just pow. Yeah. No left, right, up, down, only pow. Maybe we could have a look at what someone's saying on YouTube. >> Yeah. >> Uh so there's quite a few uh comments coming
1:09:06 through. Goodness gracious. I don't know where to start. Vibratingly brilliant. Misconception super imposition stories are gorgeous. One says stories of orientation. Yeah, there's a lot of just uh commenting and and reflections coming through. Um >> hello everyone on YouTube. That's fantastic. You can watch it there as well. And please you're watching and and enjoying feel free to fire a question through that way if you want to. >> So if you want to >> sorry if you want to take part on the zoom in future um uh I think at if we'll put up the tags on this video. So round about now there'll probably be something here which will tell you where you can
1:09:52 do it. >> Sorry you were going to say h >> yeah someone asks could you redefine your concept of non-duality? >> Both >> your concept of non-duality. What would we have to say about that? It's not two. It's not one either. It's not even none. It simply defies all definition. Yes, it can't be conceived or comprehended because there's not an it to do so. It is the the ultimate uh cosmic anarchist. I would like to say you've c you've called it the uh the divine hooligan in the past and I would like to suggest
1:10:38 alongside that it is the ultimate anarchist >> because it totally defies all labels, all definitions, all anything that could seem to attempt to objectify it or label it or make it a thing. It's radically, outrageously, blasphemously defying all definitions and labels. Yeah. All categorization. It's just so unbelievably total and whole that there's nothing there to actually locate or pin down or define. the the ultimate iconoclast, the ultimate the ultimate ripper down of ideas and accepted notions.
1:11:24 Um, if you're asking about the definition of non-duality as it's discussed in the terms that we're talking about apparently these days, certainly radical non-duality, which is not really the traditional varic or advitic, vidantic non-duality that's traditionally come out of Hindu philosophy. Uh mostly um the non-duality we speak of here is essentially just a pointing to that there only is the total oneness of all that there is and separation is only a notion or to the illusory felt energetic center of a me. And the idea or the suggestion is that that me that we all take ourselves to be
1:12:10 is an illusion. it's illusory that it doesn't exist certainly not in the terms of reality in which it imagines itself to exist. So really nonduality, we're using the word duality tuness just to negate it and say nonduality. Myself, although it doesn't so much recognize the history of the use of the word non-duality, myself, I prefer the term radical oneness. Um I don't uh see the need to say talk of a tuness that doesn't exist. >> But Alexis said as well, it's so wild and free. While it is total oneness, it's also nothing at all. So that's um where it starts to become
1:12:57 so explosively unknowable that without that ability to step back and say anything about it, all you can say is it's just unknowably what is what is and isn't. Some people prefer. I like unknowable. Um, Ben asked a question a little while ago on the chat box here. Uh, let's see. Just a sec. I'd love to get your insight into a conclusional quote from a course in miracles. It seems that this speaks to the same no thing that this message speaks to, not the individual. assisting
1:13:43 nothing to remember nothing uh the absolute be still. So here's the quote. Be still and lay aside all thoughts of what you are and what God is. All concepts you have learned about the world, all images you hold about yourself. Empty your mind of everything if thinks is either true or false or good or bad. Of every thought it judges worthy and all the ideas of which it is ashamed. Hold on to nothing. Do not bring with you one thought the past has taught, nor one belief you ever learned before. >> So, um, >> well, it's it's fantastic, but it it's not an instruction. It can't be done as an instruction. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if we took it
1:14:29 literally, it would sound like a it would sound like a thing to to to use or apply to to navigate, you know, the appearance or something that that could actually bring us closer to God or to to the truth. Of course, uh it's it seems to be somewhat enigmatically pointing out the the illusion of duality that and which would include truth and falsity. Well, if truth and falsity is relative and dualistic, then nothing is true or false. It's it's neither true nor false. Uh and there's nothing to hang on to. Um so yes, it's it perhaps, you know, it sounds a bit applicable and and like a teaching or an instruction or
1:15:15 something like that. But I think really if it was poetically translated or or what would what would be salvaged there is that the entire appearance is uh is humiliatingly surrendering a a misperception of this reality as something personal and something progressionbased something continuous something located something autonomous as well. And all of those misperceptions are like the leaf falling from, you know, Adam and Eve. It's like the the the persona, the masks, the pretenses, the humiliation that is the revelation, the liberation is all there is.
1:16:01 Yeah. And it's never not it's never not this. It can't be said enough. It's never not this already. There's no way to walk closer to that. And there's no way to walk away from it. It is inescapable and undeniable because it's everything. >> Hi guys. >> Hey. Hi. >> Yeah, it is. I just want to say that it's so utterly gorgeous to just listen to you. >> It's just so >> sweet. I don't There's just no words to
1:16:48 describe it. It's just Yeah. Thank you so much. >> Oh, it's a pleasure. But if you had to say you preferred one than the other, it would be me though, wouldn't it? >> I'm kidding. I'm kidding. How are you doing, Elizabeth? Are you well, darling? >> Yeah, just relaxing. Yeah, tired. A bit tired. Yeah. >> Oh, it's good that we can uh have you with us here. It's lovely to be able to share this with like a growing community of people who are increasingly um the beautiful falling away of that idea that there's going to be getting something and a sort of relaxing into okay there's not quite so much tension
1:17:35 of people needing to get something and it's wonderful when we can it's like the the energy is so palpable and such a beautiful sharing when there's not like uh grasping for it and it can just reveal itself simply as what it is very naturally within that energy and I think it's being beautifully developed in this group that's joining us so regularly and in that sort of environment that energy um just like uh I can't recall who it was who was saying before but within that energy it just seems simpler and simpler and more obvious um the the simplicity of what is just is revealed simply as what is. And all
1:18:21 those notions of twisting it this way and that that energy kind of falls and floats away. And in that sort of trust and harmony and um the the original use of the word sa you know in that that trusting communion of apparent friends and seekers here together. When there's not that idea of a journey and there's not that idea of any judgment and no one's being seen, then that's the space where suddenly the idea that hey, there's nothing actually to do and it's okay and this is it starts to show its beguiling,
1:19:07 unforgettable, unmistakable, beautiful face slowly and uh totally. And then it seemed that there's only ever really been that face looking back at us. And there only ever is that face, that smile, that light. And this is it. >> Hey, Elizabeth. It's so fun having such a groovy gang of people to share this nonsense with because a lot of people think I'm insane when I go on like this in normal times of the day. >> This is my free play area, too. >> You are. Yeah, this is where this is our safe space, guys, where we can meet and go, sh it isn't real.
1:19:54 >> There's going to be retreat soon, right? I heard. Or what are they called? >> Oh, it's going to happen. It's going to happen. >> Yeah, >> you know, it's going to happen. um that uh we're having meetings at the moment as you know um and we'll always advertise those but as this grows God willing if you guys enjoy this and you share it with your friends and that you all you guys now watching on YouTube if you share it with your friends also and this grows then we have the possibility of doing the great retreats when we get 10 20 30 people all together in a nice place we can hang out for a week together and um that's when Um yeah, when the rhythms and energies of the outside world just get pushed aside a little further and there's more of a
1:20:41 space where um resonating can resonate and that that's as processional as I'll uh give the illusion of describing it. But um it's a place for explosions and we'll be building it. Yeah, we'll all do it together. We've got to work towards this. That would be a fantastic thing if we can do retreats. That would be number one in my list of uh uh desires, I tell you. Well, can we put your name down, mate? >> 100%. Yeah. The first one you do. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Good. Good. Good. >> Hey guys. So, thanks so much. We've only got about seven minutes left. Uh unless anyone's got a a particular uh important
1:21:29 question, why don't we do um we'll have a couple of uh uh nice summations between myself and Alexis. Uh unless anyone's got a last question. >> Well, well, Laura had an important question. >> Oh, okay. Please. Yes. >> She asks uh it's very important as it happens and it's very relevant apparently. She asks, "What are both of your current favorite music pieces?" >> Yeah. Do you want to go first? >> Well, uh, somehow or other, the first thing that came to my mind, and I've already responded, but it's Aurora, >> which you actually introduced me to, as it happens, and it's absolutely gorgeous. I mean, I think there was the the KXP one that we like to listen to, and it's just uh it's just like um I don't know.
1:22:16 It's it feels like a a warm sort of um maternal uh divine shower for the for the entire nervous system. Yeah. >> Beautifully put. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm a I'm a huge Aurora fan myself. Uh this is Aurora Ankness. It's a Norwegian girl. Um, I'm a big fan of Ren. R E N. And when Alexis and I are together and partying, Al Ren's Down on the beat will always be on the stereo at some point. Um, what have we been listening to recently? I've been listening to some Alt J. Uh, again, I'm a big fan of Alt J. Um
1:23:02 been listening to some James Addiction old school. Um I don't know. I think my um most of the day I like ambient so things like 07 more air stuff like that's often what you hear me listening to during the day. Cheers Laura. Yeah we're big music fans on this uh show. always happy to talk about music and lyrics. Um, okay. So, as a a a concluding five minutes for the first show, well, firstly, my god, thank you so much for joining us. Um, it's wonderful that this is happening. And this is happening uh because you're turning up and it wouldn't be happening if you weren't
1:23:48 turning up. So, thank you so very much for doing that. Thank you for all the ones who are going to be watching this on YouTube, who've been joining in live on YouTube. Now, um we've talked about a few things today. Um but we've also spoken about nothing and to an extent we should be a little bit mindful and a little bit cautious that by repeatedly referring to the me as an illusion, we don't come up with the notion that that's an actual and a real thing. The mei isn't a thing called an illusion. That's what it is. There it is. I can point at it. No, an illusion means it's not there. It's not real. It's certainly not there and real in the terms in which it understands those
1:24:33 ideas. And those ideas of things being real and actual and happening in real time and space. That's all a consequence or product or part of the package of that energetic contraction that we call the me or the individual. Now when that contraction starts to relax, start to release, nobody's in the center freed by that. That is the notion of personhood itself falling apart. And all that's left is all that there ever was. total unconditional love. Total oneness appearing as unconditional love. Because
1:25:20 there's nothing that could ever in any way refuse or reject the simple appearance of what is appearing unknowably as what is. And I offer you
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