0:16 Have you ever wondered what a USCIS officer looks for when you apply for an EB -2 national interest waiver application? Hi, I'm attorney Carlos Colombo from Colombo & Herd. application. Hi, I'm attorney Carlos Colombo from Colombo and Herd, and today we have a very special guest with us, one of our own attorneys who used to be a USCIS officer, Mandy Nees. Mandy, welcome. It's a pleasure talking to you today about EB2s. Thank you for having me. It's good to be here. So Mandy, if you wouldn't mind starting with a little bit of background about yourself and your journey as an attorney and as an officer at USCIS. Sure.
1:04 I began my legal career working in real estate, and then I shifted into litigation prior to taking the adjudications role with USCIS. And then after about 13 years of that, I transitioned back into private practice, representing National Interest Waiver Tech Endeavor clients. And then I joined Columbo and Her. Endeavor clients. And then I joined Columbo and Heard, where my client base became even more diverse than that. So we represent, as you know, clients with all kinds of different professional backgrounds, which has been just really incredibly rewarding because of that diversity and the unique skill set of each of our clients. I mean, that's
1:55 amazing. You know, 13 years at USCIS, so you CIS. So you learn a lot about how the government, and sometimes we say the other side, but this is not really the other side, right? Because this is not litigation where you have a plaintiff and a defendant, and there's two sides to this. This is really a benefit that the U .S. government provides to certain individuals. So our approach has always been, you know, we want to try to work together with immigration, U .S. CIS. I would try to work together with immigration, USCIS, which for those of you who don't know, that stands for U .S. Citizenship and Immigration Services. And they have, for EB2, NIW
2:45 in particular, two service centers that handle those, Texas and Nebraska. But as attorneys, we never get to talk directly with those officers or interact directly with them. We don't know who they are. A lot of times it's just the number that we see. A lot of times it's just a number that we see. And every officer may have a slightly different approach to the way they adjudicate cases. If you wouldn't mind telling us a little bit about your time at USCIS and that mystery that sometimes surrounds a little bit of how officers are trained and how they adjudicate cases.
3:37 Sure. You know, the USCIS is very well managed. The Nebraska Service Center where I work was very well managed. And the training program is very good. It's very rigorous. All the officers go through officer training. And that's usually six to eight weeks of intense training, right? It's. intense training right it's that is your job for that time period and in that time you learn about all aspects of immigration and you know border security benefits adjudication all of those things and it's very very thorough and then back at the service center every
4:27 form type has its own training USCIS does a really good job of breaking down US does a really good job of breaking down each element of the officer role. So you get technical training and how to use the USCIS systems, which are very different than what we have out here. Some things are the same, right? But most things are very different. And then also, you know, your legal training, which is understanding the law that applies to the benefit that you're adjudicating. that applies to the benefit that you're adjudicating. So during my time, I started out as a 485 officer.
5:13 That's lawful permanent resident applications, employment -based green cards. And so you have to learn every aspect of that petition. And then as those petitions ebb and flow, as all petition types do, I also learned I -130 family -based petitions. I also learned I -130 family based petitions, temporary protected status, asylum, permanent resident applications, and eventually got to I -140s and did labor cert cases, national interest waivers, and schedule A's. And every time that you change
6:01 form types, you get legal training, systems training, and - systems training, and some training that's specific to the department, right? Like things that are different for each of those workflows. And I'm actually a big fan of how they do their training because they get a lot of people who don't have a legal background up to speed on the legalities of the immigration world very quickly. And you get to that point where you can make you get you get to that point where you can make legal decisions quickly they also do a great job of supporting officers in developing their decisional confidence through mentoring so
6:50 you go through your formal training and then you work with a mentor and you have an assigned number of cases that you have to work with that mentor sitting side by side making all of the updates together and then um they kind of give you a little bit more freedom And then they kind of give you a little bit more freedom and you just get to take the files on your own and just make notes about what your decision would be and why. And then after all of that happens, then you do a similar process with your supervisor and the supervisor takes that takes the place of your mentor and reviews cases with you. And that provides a lot of
7:36 continuity in the decisions and in the processing. Obviously, we still see lots of variation, but the training is really, really consistent. Yeah, it is. Because sometimes, again, from the outside world, it's hard for us to understand how an agency with such an important task as to, you know, they decide the future of an important task as to, you know, they decide the future of all these foreign nationals that want to make America their dream. And so that training,
8:22 and you had a little bit of an advantage because you have a law degree, you're an attorney, you're a licensed attorney. And like you said, a lot of USCIS officers may not have a background in the legal world. So you had a little bit of an advantage going in. You spent 13 years with an advantage going in. You spent 13 years, which is a long time understanding the process. And you also trained a lot of these younger officers. So you can speak to that from firsthand knowledge. That training is so important to make sure that it is a fair decision. And it's such an effective method, right? That combination of practical
9:15 experience with mentoring I mean it's what I always aim to replicate in every other situation that I go into because it's so effective right having those connections and being able to implement the knowledge is so critical and so I think they do a great job now that doesn't mean that I agree with every decision obviously there's still lots of areas where I am as mystified as anyone as to what the officer is thinking, but they are effective at what they do, in my opinion and in my experience. Right. I mean, I lived this on all sides of that process.
10:03 So I am a fan of that process. And I think that even though we. don't always agree with them, we have to remember that they are making decisions consistent with their training. Right. So now that you're on the other side, right, and you're on the private side representing the applicants, the ones that are trying to get approved with an EB2 NIW or an O1, and Mandy has been great at Colombo Unheard in setting up. some of these, you know, training for our younger attorneys
10:49 and having sort of a systematic approach to understanding. Because sometimes USCIS changes a little bit on how they interpret evidence or how they adjudicate cases. But now that you're helping the foreign nationals apply for these benefits, what has been something that you've. experienced as being more fulfilling in some areas when you're representing self -sponsored petitioners in particular? Love working with self -sponsored petitioners. I always had the impression that a lot of the employer -based petitions left a lot of room for inequality.
11:39 And so I love it when people can make equality. And so I love it when people can make their own way. And I love being able to help them make their own way. Our system is really skewed toward traditional employment. And I just love it when I can help people do something different and make their own way to the U .S. away from traditional big employers that employ, you know, huge law firms. And they, you know, they just law firms and they, you know, they just churn out petitions based on standard jobs. I love that uniqueness and that personalization and the ability to provide
12:24 really personalized service and create unique petitions based on our clients' backgrounds. It's, that's really, special to me. So that's a great point, Mandy. And, you know, so we can get maybe now into more technical insights regarding EB2 and IW. now into more technical insights regarding EB2 NIWs, in particular, being self -sponsored. I mean, part of what we do and really our identity as a law firm is being the champions for self -petitioners, right? EB2 NIW, EB1s, and all ones, for example, with non -immigrant visas. But that gives the applicant the freedom to control his...
13:14 the the applicant the freedom to control his or her future rather than depending on an employer that may have other interests and then they do have other interests right they have their own selfish interest in perhaps not providing that green card that permanent residency to those employees because that way they can keep them longer under their control um and and not that i'm saying there's anything wrong with that particular model. It's just a more, what I would say is more outdated model that doesn't really attract necessarily the brightest and the
14:00 best and the talent that we truly need in the U .S. in a way that allows the applicant to control their own future. So what is the EB -2 national interest waiver? Why is that so crucial for? our clients? Well, it's really crucial for our clients. You don't have to have a sponsoring employer. You can, but you don't have to have an employer sponsor to apply for a national interest waiver petition, which is really great. And it's really liberating, right? It really gives our clients an opportunity to make their own way and come to the U .S. more on their own terms.
14:46 way and come to the U .S. more on their own terms, which is a great thing. And it allows for all of these unique skill sets to come to the U .S. and to do unique work, right? We're not trying to put people into standardized roles through this petition type. So it's really critical for that reason. And it's also critical in terms of timing. So And it's also critical in terms of timing. So the alternatives that are the traditional ways to immigrate through employment -based petitions require a labor certificate. That's
15:32 one of the other major ways that people come to the U .S. And the labor certificate process is quite lengthy. The employer has to apply for a prevailing wage determination to ensure that the wages that are being paid are fair based on the current market conditions and then that prevailing wage determination goes into the application for a labor certificate and the prevailing wage determination can take a year the labor certificate can take a year and then you put together the i -140 petition and hopefully those documents are not expired and by the time the petition goes to the to us fired by the time the petition goes
16:22 to USCIS. So it's quite lengthy. And that whole time, clients are in limbo, right? For our process, you know, we take usually somewhere in the two to three, maybe sometimes four months to get the petition prepared. And then we file and USCIS can And we file and USCIS can, you know, their processing times take a little longer. If people are interested in pursuing premium processing, they can do that. And that reduces that processing time down to 45 days. But it's really that timeline and that freedom from the
17:08 employer that are so critical to people who want to come to the U .S. and work, right? And pursue permanent residency in that way. So and then, you know. residency in that way. So and then, you know, we also have that timeline of the visa bulletin that impacts a lot of these different types of petitions. And so for the alternatives, the NIW is just so much more efficient in terms of employer or employee resources and time. That's why I think it's important. But also, you know, important, but also, you know, for clients, it's about that ability to do the things that they want
17:59 to do and not trying to put themselves into a standardized role with a large employer that's willing to sponsor them. Right, because at the end of the day, that individual, an EB2 national interest means that the U .S. has an inherent interest in attracting this kind of talent. has an inherent interest in attracting this kind of talent to the US. And that person could do an amazing job within a company, or it may have a more entrepreneurial type of endeavor that can have a huge impact. We know, what's the statistic? I think over 50 % of founders of Fortune 500 companies are
18:48 immigrants or the son or daughter of an immigrant. So they can have a huge impact in the United States without being tied to a particular company. And in turn, those companies will also be able to attract talent without much bureaucracy and restrictions. So I think that this is the future of immigration law. I hope that it is and that we continue to help the self -petitioners down that road. You know, from
19:34 a more technical perspective, the EB2 NIW, if you're not familiar with an EB2 NIW, the basic requirements are going to be that you need a college degree, a university, a bachelor's degree and five years of experience, or you can have a more advanced degree like a master's. or a doctorate, PhD. There's also exceptional ability ways to qualify, which is a little bit more difficult. Our typical clients have that advanced education and or combination with a bachelor's and five years or more of experience. But, Mandy, a lot of a lot of folks believe because
20:20 the old way of adjudicating NIWs before the famous. Danasar decision a few years ago. A lot of folks still today believe that the only people that can qualify for an EB2 NIW are those with PhDs, postdocs, researchers with 150 Google Scholar citations who are here to cure cancer, which of course we want, those folks as well. to cure cancer, which, of course, we want those folks as well, but those are not the only folks that qualify for an EB2 NIW. And like you said at the beginning
21:08 of our chat, a lot of our clients don't necessarily fit that traditional category. So from an evidence perspective and sort of giving us your insights as a USAS officer when you cites as a usas officer um where when you were approving or denying cases that was not the only consideration if you're a postdoc curing cancer with 100 citations right of course not of course not um obviously those those petitions are so easy um especially if you know if they're doing something related to public health or department you know
22:02 defense, national security, things like that. I mean, those are the easiest decisions that will come across your desk all day, you know, and there's lots of them. You know, we have so many amazing immigrants in the U .S. and so many important contributions. So it's not hard to improve those cases. It can be trickier when you don't have a clear path to the national impact, right? So if you are a smaller business or just an individual looking to develop your business from scratch, it can be difficult to show that
22:49 national impact. So really we can do that by showing unique contributions, right? Original contributions. We can show that through publications. We can show that in a number of ways, right? We kind of demonstrate that this, how important the work is by kind of showing the history of some of the other things that our clients have done. So in that regard, the national interest, you know, that scope of the endeavor, as we like to say, as we like to say, can be challenging for most people and for most people even to imagine it sometimes,
23:38 right? It can be hard to imagine your work as having a national impact. But think about some of the tech that has been developed and how that impacts almost everything that we do, right? I mean, I'm sure that the person who invented like the thumb drive was like, some drive was like, oh, this will be cool, you know, and she just put it into this part and it saves things there. Probably not thinking that it was going to become incredibly commonplace, right? And so you have to imagine your work having that kind of impact and that kind of application,
24:23 which can be challenging, right? So we have to come up with that vision and we have to be able to support that. We have to come up with that vision and we have to be able to support that vision with documentation and be able to demonstrate that our work has had an impact in other places and that we can bring that impact to everything that the client does. How do you, when you hear from a client that has no idea really how an NIW works, how do you overcome those challenges in trying to... pull that evidence from them or helping understand? Because obviously, we as lawyers
25:12 can't create evidence. We have to help them explain to us some of the things that and sort of go into their background really deep. And that is a process. It's not a process that is done in one or two days. Correct. So I just, if you don't mind, I just want to backtrack just a tiny half step. if you don't mind i just want to backtrack just a tiny half step the resume itself can pro you know be a barrier to understanding the person's professional background so what i encourage everyone to do is just do bullets right just do a list of the things that you've done i can figure out a list um
25:58 and i can ask follow -up questions based on a list um but sometimes i mean i've seen resumes that are are um so bare that i don't know where to start right i don't know how to explain the work that has been done and so in that sense we have to reconstruct the professional history and we have to reconstruct the professional accomplishments to your last question how do i overcome that it's really about Last question, how do I overcome that? It's really about interviewing the client. Sometimes I think my clients think that they're on a job interview because I ask so many
26:46 questions about their resumes. And some of that is just me learning their profession, right? What does that mean? I worked on an EB -1 case this year, and it was a technical person, and she had a lot of renewable energy. experience, and I really didn't have any relativity for that profession. And so there were things on her resume that I just didn't understand. And so part of my conversation with her was unpacking all the details of her work. And I think it's that way with a lot of professions, because I know
27:33 my profession. and I know some of the professions that I've worked with a lot, but I don't know every profession and I don't know what's common or unique to every profession. And so sometimes it's really going through that resume and literally I will take a red pen and circle words that I don't know. So maybe I know what they mean in some context, but I don't know what they mean in that technical professional context. and really digging into what people have done and then trying to pull out some of those bigger key accomplishments and those unique
28:20 contributions and things like that. And then we're kind of cooking with gas. Then we're to a place where we can really start to create a structure for that petition. No, that's exactly how you train. our attorneys, how we have always approached an EB2, an IW or an EB1 or a self -petition in general. And I think, you know, that's a great point. And, you know, we don't, we cannot have a template that we use that works for any one of our clients because they're individual. And our work is going to be individual. because
29:07 they're individual and our work is going to be individual. So if you're thinking that you may qualify or if you're not sure, like Mandy said, or you think, I don't think I qualify for this, find out. We do a free evaluation. Here's the link. It's also below in the video. We do a free evaluation. Let's have a chat. Let's look at your background. And like Mandy said, not only your resume, because your resume may not have everything. You may not have updated that for the last 10 years. may not have everything. You may not have updated that for the last 10 years. I don't know if I have actually, but let's chat. Let's look at the details. Let's see if you fit into a self -petition, whether it's an EB2 NIW, an O, or an EB1A, and let's see if we can
29:57 help you. Mandy, it has been an absolute pleasure, like always, talking to you. You have provided us with, and I always learn from you every time I talk to you. with. And I always learn from you every time I talk to you. So I really appreciate all the insights you have given our community. Thanks again. Thank you. Thanks for having me on our channel. Thank you, everyone.
