US-PAK Minerals Pact: China Dumped? Is India Ready for the New Global Power Shift?

0:00 Namaskar. Hello and welcome to P Guru's channel. I'm your host Riya coming from three different channels. Purus, Ganeshot and Claus. We have today with us three good generals. General Ravish Shankar, General Dushan Singh and General Rajiv Naran and let's welcome all the three distinguished generals. Generals Namaskar and welcome to Puru's channel. How are you? Namaskar and Jind. We are fine. Jind Bataki J and all fine. General Ravishanker, I'll start with Pleasure to be on all the shows. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Viewers, wherever you are, please like this video. Let this thing go viral. We're going to be having couple of presentations from the distinguished generals and there are

0:45 and there's going to be a lot of information that's going to be disseminated. We might also take a detour on what's happening in other things like Russia, Ukraine front as well as in China. That might just come as part of this discussion. The main thing is what are the options for India? Is India ready for a new global power shift that appears to be happening? General, I'll let you go first, sir. You have a couple of uh pictures to share with us and and a narrative. Go ahead, sir. Yeah, you know, I'll start with USA. The point is USA has shown its true colors. I will not say USA has shown its true colors. Trump plus USA you know shown a few colors you know we need to understand the dynamic there and from there everything will flow

1:31 out ever since Trump has you know assumed presidency he's like a guy who's running after minerals whether it was in Greenland whether it's on Ukraine or in Congo even in Congo there's an issue and now they've come he's leaded on to you know Pakistan you'll say why Pakistan I'll come to that. But Trump is after for some reason, whatever reason, whether it's his family money, whether it's investment, Bitcoin, Ecoin, Wcoin, he's got a fixation for minerals. He's also talking to Australia from minerals. And all this stems from two facts. One is there's money in it. And second he wants to secure mineral or

2:16 resource security for uh USA which he feels he's lost out to China. Right. The second part of the story is that he's very clear I mean on that we should not have a doubt that USA he USA and the entire establishment of USA I'm sure Naran will explain uh something else something completely different from what we're talking later in the right and we need to consider it right um they are completely focused on China now we saw in op synindor that USA taking a contra position with India all right and suddenly out of the

3:02 blue there there's a you know new jump or there's a new spring in Pakistan step that they're back in the good books of USA they've launched their Bitcoin reserve and that launch was in front of uh the vice president of USA Vance in Vegas and things like that and you know and USA has offered them mediation at a neutral place which came out from Rubio though we've said to take a walk but there's a new step in you know spring in Pakistan step on the flip side you know you saw Hexit telling in you know talking in the Shangrila dialogue in Singapore and saying look India is a good partner of

3:47 ours we're going to do the quad we're going to do the India Pacific security and we are going into a next level and there's also you know similar thing coming from some other members of the Trump cabinet. So there is a black and white element about the Trump cabinet. So I gave it a thought why is this happening I mean right and then it came to me that you know there's some gold and uh find in rurik and that's been you know there's a report on this by baric I'd like that to first come up in fact I'll put it this way last month there was a meeting in which was which barrick came and give a presentation and it was

4:34 precided over by um friend the field marshall he was just a general then and Shabbash Sharif so if I could first get that picture up uh if you don't mind and then we'll get the yeah picture yeah look at this this is the Pakistan mineral investment forum which was held just about a month month and a half back and it was precided over by our good friend the field marshall and in this forum [Music] Barrick gave a presentation and I like that presentation because that's the key. Yeah. Can we have the beacon please? Yeah. That leads Pakistan into the ranks of the top global mining jurisdictions.

5:21 At the end of 2024, the feasibility study was completed, producing total contained, proven, and probable mineral reserves of 15 million tons of copper and 26 million ounces of gold. There is every reason to believe that Rico will still be operating past the end of this century. First production is planned for 2028 and targets 240,000 tons perom copper and 300,000 ounces perom of gold during

6:07 phase one. Barrack has a proven track record of partnering with and fostering local local. You see Shab there and you see Marshall there and everyone general at that time over the last two years we have awarded contracts valued at millions of dollars to suppliers from the Chagai district. Rica will be a major contributor to Pakistan's economy and will have a transformative impact on the underdeveloped Baluchistan province where in addition to the economic benefits it will generate the mine will

6:53 also create thousands of highpaying jobs. Yeah. So you see that you know that's the potential and that's a proven potential whether we like it or not it's there and uh the Chinese are also at this point of time it is barrack gold which is a Canadian company which is in the fray which has done everything and uh but Chinese are also in the fray they want a hold on that and Mr. Trump has zeroed on to this. So one, number two, you saw that the World Bank is going to give Pakistan $40 billion from 20 6 to 35 and this just matches what uh you know uh China has invested in the

7:40 form of CPC that 60 billion actually what's been spent is about 22 23 billion and I don't think anything more will come and you see the IMF also very generous in bailing Pakistan out. So there's a there's an issue here. So what you're going to see is America uh gunning for the critical minerals out there. I won't say critical their minerals resources and Pakistan is going to become a battle ground. That's on the cards. So if that is on the cards, there's a new global power shift. Right? If you think China is dumped out by Pakistan, no. Still 80% of Pakistan's arms inventory is from China and the

8:25 reports are they're completely handin glove with the J35 and they come to a stage where the Pakistani pilots are already training in China and they're not going to give up on each other and come I mean if you look beyond the you know propaganda which has come out and all that you see that both China and Pakistan an are a bit takenback by what happened to them in Obsynur and they want to give it back to India. So if you see this, China is not going to give up on Pakistan. America is now gunning back to get back into Pakistan in a big way and there's going to be a battleground and there's going to be one on one thing and on other hand Pakistan which seeks

9:10 revenge always against India is going to come back at us through China and we are going to rise. we're going to continue to rise and we will have our own problems in this regard and of course things like Bangladesh and all this will come up right and it is in this context you also have to understand where Russia is Russia is being pressured into getting into a peace deal which is not for it the way it wants it to go. So there is that struggle going on and as you go along you'll see Russia getting weakened right on the other hand you see Europe Europe and EU might not be that well off economically but there's a realization in EU that America has dumped them and

9:58 if that be so they need to revive their own economy not only revive their economy they're mortally scared of Russia and if they are mortally scared of Russia they want to remilit ize and they can't remilitarize on their own because they don't have the manpower to do that. They have to come to India. So this is the shift which is happening and of course East Asia is in trouble. In fact, China is in trouble. China has got its internal problems. China's economy is tanking big time. Big time. Ziginping can be kicked out any time. And China is now ringing fenced by uh countries which are I won't say hostile to it but they're completely adversarial to it. Uh countries which have once subservient to

10:44 China are now saying showing two fingers to China especially when you look at uh even North Korea, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and Philippines. So there's a new paradigm in you know West Pacific which is enimical to China. right now. If it is in this context, you'll have to see where we are going. And I think there's a very clear reason for us to relook at this new world order or the new world disorder which is happening and we have to see how to navigate our way through right this is what I'll say at this point of time. I think uh let's hear others and then we'll take up uh the issues thereafter. Thank you so much Jan Ravish Shankar for setting the stage here. Uh, General Duchan Singh, um, I

11:30 read recently, and I don't know if this is just a tweet on X, so I can't say for sure if it's reliable or not, that Israel is looking to sign a 15,000 cr deal to with India to handle I think this is something to do with the L70 and Akash missiles that India used effectively to shoot down the Turka drones. This is what I'm hearing. I'm just setting the context here. So even so, this is the showcasing, right? The proof is proof of the pudding is in its eating and India's pudding tastes quite good at this point of time. Over to you sir, your thoughts. Uh thank you uh G for having called me on your show. First of all, I'll take on from what John Ravi Shanka spoke about. uh I in my opinion this entire

12:18 geopolitics is turning out to be an accidental convergence of national interest where transactional mode of behavior in international relations is gaining prominence. What I mean is that everybody is looking at a transactional uh and a transactional approach to uh uh having a relationship with a country. So we should not get unduly perturbed by what the US is doing with Pakistan or what the China is doing with Pakistan or Bangladesh or the US is trying to do with Bangladesh. This is going to happen. It is bound to happen. The fact about minerals I would expand it to say that Trump is only looking at trade,

13:06 trade and trade. So wherever he is getting this kind of and in the trade I would also like to qualify that it is with a side effect of family benefit as well. So wherever he's finding this kind of an approach this kind of a this kind of a opportunity he is blindly going into that irrespective of you know high moral standards as far as intern in any case the US has never believed in that kind of a that kind of an approach. It has always believed in its own uh sovereign interest and so has India done. Uh in fact in one of our interactions with a US Rand corporation thing senior fellow when I questioned him on this particular issue he says well we are doing what you did

13:52 during the Russia Ukraine war. Simply put if Rand and these like think tank which which actually influence the US government's approach and not necessarily the president there is a whole lot of deep state which is there in the US which actually drives policy irrespective of who is the president president only brings in his personal flavor as what he's doing now currently as far as trade is concerned but my overall opinion is that it might not be a long living kind of a trend uh if after four or 3 years 3 and a half years whatever time is left of Trump we might see some corrections in this kind of a approach which the US is following. So so I first point is accidental

14:37 convergence of interest both of China and US is taking place and somehow we are caught in the middle of that. So what has happened? We have been hyphenated with Pakistan which we had so effectively actually dehyenated for the last 10 to 11 years. We were actually not considering Pakistan as any kind of a concern as far as we were concerned. The other thing which has happened is we are slightly getting hemmed in but there are ways and means to get out of this hemming in. The next issue which we need to consider is opind. Opynindur was a was a I I would say it's a wakeup call for us also but I would say it is more of a wakeup call for the Chinese and the Americans because weapon systems of both

15:23 were although not the American system the NTPQS etc were there but other than that it was essentially the Chinese weapon systems which got exposed to uh the the the wrath of the Indian systems but we must realize that our capacity to handle such a conflict in the future will be limited only from the point of view of quantity. We have to escalate our production. And here I would like to you know link your Israel point of view. You may be right. You may be right. I cannot share everything but you may be right that we are looking for alternate sources because I said everything is transactional. Whoever whosoever is going to give us, we will take it. Take

16:10 it on our conditions. Be cautious of it. If we are getting it from the US, so might as well take it. There is no harm. You see, if we take it from the US, doesn't matter. It should be on our terms. And if they're ready to give us fine, we will uh because in the short term, we have to cater for any escalation which might happen. And let me tell you there are inputs that that the uh Pakistanis are you know in a in some kind of a closed door interaction with China to enhance their capability to respond more effectively with India. So my uh third point is that the overall national policy has to take a dramatic shift. Till now we were focusing

16:55 possibly and rightly so more on the economic front. I feel that henceforth and from this budget onwards we have to spend 3% and I put a bracket uh caveat of more and not less. 3% is minimum and more is always welcome. Unless we do that we will not be able to actually meet the future threats the way we want to meet them. If we have to continue with this kind of show which we have done in opsindur and opsindur was a very very limited conflict very limited conflict. You can count the number of missiles fired by either side. You can count the number of drones fired by either side. Imagine if we start having this

17:41 this entire thing in a full full-blown 10 12 15 20 days of conflict. You will find that we will have to really gear up our internal systems as well to to have that kind of search capabilities and that requires money and that requires budgetary support that has to be a very important factor as far as going forward of of Synindur is concerned. The next issue which I wanted to highlight was about the Balojasthan factor you know coming in way and why Trump is getting into it. I don't know whether I did the show with you or with gunner shot about a year a year and a half back and I said that gold was found in Baluchasthan way back then and Chinese were actually going into it and and you would have I

18:28 think heard about the US ambassador may paying a visit in Baluchasthan about last two last year and you know trying to explore all these things which were happening there. So it's not a I mean something which has yeah it's not new it it was under under the scanner of the US for quite some time they have just taken those concrete steps forward now and that to these are the initial step like John Shankar said Bara the Canadian company so so so it is the US which wants to get into this game of minerals etc. So, so, so be it. So, be it everybody is welcome. And I would tell you that if people are coming to Baluchasthan with their boots, they they they better be prepared for some some

19:13 very very serious things there because Chinese have been facing it. If the US wants to face it, they are more than welcome to do so. uh but what should be worrying us is the the deal which uh the the China Afghanistan and Pakistan are trying to forge now that may prove to be a kind of a challenge to us should Afghan Taliban reign in the KPK the TDP why because I believe one of the emir yesterday general KJ was saying that the emir have been given the right to say that whether you will undertake take any operations in Pakistan or not. Now Emir in this case could be anyone. See everybody considers in Afghanistan as

19:59 the emir and Hakani network is fairly close to even now close to Pakistanis. Akun Zada I believe is not that effective now with most of most of the power now going into the hands of Akani Akani because he's the interior minister as well. So so that is one angle which we have to be careful of. We have to invest in Afghanistan very very smartly so that our you know uh the the other approach of keeping Pakistan engaged on the western border remains and these designs which are taking place in Balojasthan etc are also kept to a limited level of influence as far as India India's interests are concerned India's interest is that Pakistan must remain embroiled

20:45 on the western front then only we can focus on the northern front which is our primary adversary and we have been telling this thing. So uh last point is about the uh EU and the IMF bailouts. I think the IMFM the World Bank bailouts are all related to this minerals and uh this uh you know so-called new found interest in Baluchasthan. So we should try our all the tentacles must go out to ensure that this bailout is put made very very difficult. I mean we got a Indian origin uh president of World Bank. We should put so many conditions that it becomes virtually difficult for Pakistan to avail these facilities and

21:31 and for that I think we need a little bit of maneuvering maneuvering at the international forum. uh IWT I'm not really concerned. Victor tried to make all kinds of statements few days back saying don't do what you don't want others to do do on you and things of that nature. I think General Shankar gave a very beautiful presentation where he said the you know amount of influence which China can really do on us as far as water is concerned. He was every time referring to Indas and Brahma Brahmaputra but uh least realizing that we the Himalayas are controlled by us. I think I think China must be very clear of that the Himalayas are controlled by us right from its start till the end

22:19 when it tapers down in Myanmar. So where are the streams coming from other than these two big stream loit you can include it in that but otherwise rest all the streams which are coming into India are all coming from the Himalayas and who controls the Himalayas who controls the watershed it's India tell me a single place where the Chinese are there on the waterershed none even the Tista river is inside our territory well inside our territory from where it starts so you know engaging them in tista project etc. All that is uh nonsense. We should we should not really get concerned with the IWT. With that I will stop and wait out for the the next round for uh additional questions and discussions. Yes and thank

23:04 you so much General Dushan Singh and a proposal for both of you good generals. Um a startup company in India in in United States is trying to raise funds saying that uh China plans to manufacture 1 million drones in the next one year and they are saying that nobody can do it except us and that is their USP and so on and so forth. I want you to take a look at that if 1 million drones are directed at Punjab because they're not going to put them on Gujarat or or Rajasthan. Just think about it generals. We'll come back to you in a second. Let's listen to General Rajiv Naran and he has a presentation to share with us. A very fascinating one. Over to you General Rajiv. Okay. I'll start from the last part from where Jin Dushan had said. Of course I

23:51 entirely agree with that having been there. Uh everybody incorrectly refers to Brahmaputra rising from Tibet. I'm sorry. If you look at your map, Brahmaputra the name on the map in any international map comes just east of Dbrug where the Yarn Sangpur which comes it in India it's called Siang Siang then to the east there is a river which is entirely within India which is Dang and further east is the Lohit these three where they meet that is where Brahmap putra starts. So let us first disabuse the name that brahmaputra flows from

24:36 China. It doesn't. Yarlon Sananko contributes maximum 11 to 15%. 15 is when there is very heavy rains. Full stop. Rest everything comes from India. As far as lohit is concerned the Himalayas finish in the northeast. Uh in Tibet there is a big feature called Namcha Barwa. That's where the Himalayas finish. East of Namcha Barua is an area called Kangri Karpo. There is a pass also on the Himalayas called Kangriola. Kangri Karpo. There are 68 glaciers. Lohit is formed by two rivers which are these glacier fed and it comes for through a perennial pass called

25:23 Dichu and comes into India. In India it's called Lohit. on the other side is Rontou and Lo Chu. I'm sorry, you can't tame glaciers. So there is nothing can that China can do about that. So as far as the Brahmaputra is concerned in Hindi we say Monger he can do there is a huge reservoir being built. He's trying through his minions in Arunachal to try to block it. Once that reservoir comes in place and that dam that is the end of it. He at best he could have flooded those areas that would also stop. So that is why he's getting desperate that I can do something. Then as far as Baluchasthan and the minerals are concerned why they

26:11 may say that these things are new this has been going on for a number of years. Baluchistan is a very restive place as it is. Canadians are talking to the Pakistanis. US wants to jump in after he has said that I want Canada as my 51st state. So do you think the Canadian government will be happy if this man starts talking to the Americans for them? They have a problem there. And no wonder just the other day I was told that Trump is retreating from wanting to take over Canada. So that is why in America is called taco that uh turn around who turns around always

26:56 tacoed that and he he's been shown as a chicken in the US. These are the memes that are coming out about it and he doesn't like it one bit from uh because of that name taco he doesn't like it that his turnaround it started catching speed when he started saying no for taking over Canada why do you think China is talking to the baluch they're not talking to Pakistanis for that minimum they're talking to the baluch and like general shanker had mentioned whoever Whoever comes there, good luck to him. The Americans don't like to fight their battles. They would like somebody else to fight their battles. And in any case, Pakistan is taking a thrashing. That Sarab town

27:43 which connects both and Karachi has been taken over by the BL. Yeah. So where is Pakistan army today? Who's going to control? It is very nice to see make a statement there are so many million tons. the black money who's going to put the foot on ground out there and that is that let me put at rest where China wants to enter Afghanistan from Pakistan will make its narrative that is joining

28:28 CPEC tell trying to tell that he'll either go through Queta or through Peshawar sorry as far back as 2011 they had made a connectivity from the Vakhan from the Karakuram highway towards the Vakhan corridor there is a Vakhajir pass out there which enters Shan. So in Singshan the road is complete. Everything is complete. All infrastructure is complete. It is only a question of getting acceptance from the Afghan government. When Karzai was there, they had said at the entrance to the Wakhan corridor to create a brigade and place it there that they would fund it. They would provide equipment if required. Americans and ISA have said

29:13 no. After these people have come, they have been sending hints. They have not agreed to it because there also they have their copper, aluminium and aluminina and gold which is in north Afghanistan which these people want to take. Why is he talking to Afghans? Because there is he knows that if he tries to go to Baluchistan his people will get killed. Baluchistan is saying you will do the deal with me and not with Pakistan and anything and everything money will come to us and not to Pakistan. Will Pakistan agree today? And that leads me to my presentation. Shall we have a look at it to tell you as they said Kissinger had

29:59 said to be enemy of the US is bad but it's worse to be a friend of us. Now this is a map I have put it below the source anyone who is watching it can click that source blood brothers it is redrawing the borders of Middle East and this has been their long-term plan they have achieved it to a large extent in Afghan in Iraq there's already an Arab Shia state the Sunni Iraq is is desert area hardly anybody stays therean is not to this boundary as But the Kur area as far as Iraq is concerned is autonomous. The rit of the parliament in Baghdad does not

30:44 run in Kuristan. They run their own government. PKK today of Turkey realizing these importance. They are quitting their arms and joining politics to be able to create it further. They want just look at this. Trump is also saying that he wants to wipe out Gaza. Look at this map. Do you see Gaza anywhere? There is no Gaza. And right through what I have been saying, West Bank and status undetermined. So I have always been talking that when they talk of Palestine, nobody says two states. Yes. Nobody says where is the state of Palestine going to be.

31:30 This map was shared with me by the DA of Taj US and Tajakistan when I was DA there as far back as 2004. Paper written in 98 but published in the armed forces journal in 2006. 1st June 2006 the same day that we are talking today. 19 years ago it was published first June. Okay. So look at Pakistan there is no Baluchistan. So what game is US going to play here? There is so much of fighting going

32:17 on in Baluchasan. Pakistan armies rit doesn't run except in the big cities. Exactly what the Americans faced in Vietkong by the Vietkong in South Vietnam. The rate used to run in the cities. In the rest of the area, the rate never ran. So this is the long-term plan. So can we go to the next? Now in this uh they had given Gilgit Baltistan to Afghanistan. I am saying we have to work towards forget rest take Gilgit Baltistan the first thing that will happen Siaan issue is sealed you get the land connectivity to cars and

33:07 Afghanistan the link of China to Pakistan is finished I don't want P at the moment the JNK portion because they are completely radicalized all training whole lot of training camps and launch pads are out there. Moment you take it in look at the change in demography as far as the Jammu region is concerned all those areas are concerned not interested at the moment maybe later. Now only thing is you have to consider that you have a Sharia ruled Afghanistan onto your borders but Pakistan finds it difficult to defend itself. Today when you attack you attacking across east to west and you go

33:53 across the water obstacles multiple water obstacles that he has created. When you go up you come between the water obstacles on either flank is the water obstacle. There nothing in between. and then you come down. So P gives it certain amount of depth. In their plan also the PJK part was with Pakistan only. There are some rumors that US is very keen to have GB as an independent state and have a base there. Now how they are going to achieve it I really don't know in what manner they will do but Baluchistan you just imagine if he just

34:38 does the deal with Baluch all they have to say is you take the base and come and do the deal of minerals with us if they don't do it then they'll face the same fate what the Chinese have been facing for the last 3 four years who have been trying to tap the same minerals which the Canadian was telling so proudly that we finished a report two years ago. Damn it. This the report is known for almost 10 15 years. Not yesterday that you're telling proudly that I did the report handsome. It's been there for so long. Why do you think the Chinese were interested in coming here? It because of that. There no love lost for anybody there. They are also coming there for that. So can we go to the next

35:26 Yeah. Now in the I don't see this change happening in a hurry is not going to happen in a hurry. It's difficult because of the nukes that are available. Even if you say that I have like I have been saying some nukes have been neutralized that does not mean the capacity to make news doesn't exist with Pakistan. it still exists. The nuclear facilities and his uh facilities to enrich uranium are still working. So they will still have it. Would KP and Baluchistan become virtually

36:12 autonomous by the medium-term or long term? Would they become autonomous? Because if uh America is very interested in breaking away but these are not rare earth minerals as such though there have been some claims that Baluchistan has rare earth I have not heard about it. So gradually it is going to happen and when that starts happening because that is going to be a big turmoil in this region and what General Shankar and General Duchant have been saying you got to be careful as far as India is concerned because moment Pakistan gets into any kind of a turmoil and this is going to be a bigger turmoil

36:59 he externalizes with you and I would say with his state actors and not say non-state actors because it is proven that le JM and all are are state actors. So he's going to do that and he will do that earlier if not later because revenge is in his blood. That's his DNA. Next lot of people there is a lot of uh chatter going on that akand bharat this bharat that bharat that is ancient history if you think you're going to be able to achieve something here I would beg to

37:44 differ because even if you say that I will take Pakistan are you going to take Pakistan what are you going to do with this 225 million people out there and Bangladesh what are you going to do with those 20 30 million people there you're looking at Sri Lanka which has its own dynamics yes in the coming years by holding your IWT in obeyance in this will start reducing incapacity the major uh re uh tributaries I'm not Talking of the minor tributaries and all which come the major tributaries are Bas, Rai, Satlaj,

38:31 Chennab, Chalam from India and Kabul river which comes from Kabul. These are the six major tributaries and of course there are number of minor tributaries inside which also come. But when you already have four of your major tributaries blocked and maybe in the coming 3 to 5 years another major tributary blocked which is Jam and you have the uh dams being made by us for Afghanistan in or on the uh Kabul and all its tributaries 12 to 13. What happens to the flow of indust? How did we shift from Cindu Saraswati to Cindu

39:17 civilization? Because the Cindu was also a tributary, a major tributary of the Saraswati. It went away in the tectonic shift. It went away almost 100 kilometers to this general alignment of the bed where it is flowing. You had satlas and you had the yamuna which bent away bent and went away to the Ganga. These were the three major rivers that were providing it sustenance. Sarasi started fading out and what is left is your gaga which flows which is untameable and nar which they call inside Pakistan which is there's nothing left when that happened there was mass exonus because that was

40:03 an agrarian society. Let's not forget Pakistan is an agrarian society. It is an agrarian society and indust will start wilting in the coming decades. What happens then? I don't think the Pakistani decision makers have even given it a thought that what happens to a people already. Karachi airport in on Twitter we are getting reports they've run out of water. Karachi airport is running out of water. If Karachi is running out of water, what happens to that huge pot that is being run there? So there are there is a different

40:49 challenge which they are going to face because now the uh food shortages are going to start tremendous food shortages. So uh we can take this out now. Thank you so much sir. Um Rajiv G the challenge that they have whom to talk to in Baluchistan Pakistan will not be happy if you do a deal with Baluch Baluch will not be happy if you deal with Pakistan and the Canadians will not be happy if the Americans try to p it there in uh in the American industry who'd like to come here and put his boots on ground considering the situation that is Yes, they couldn't do it in Afghanistan.

41:37 How are they planning to do it in Baluchasan? But yes, because of the shenanigans of Trump and his family, there is a power shift that has come. Yes, I can I'm sure that the Israelis would have reached out to us. France has reached out to you for over a lakh sodafied anti-tank in short the kalgo staff that you make here Swedish kalust staff makes it here they are keen to order that Russia is keen to make S 500 here they have now openly offering you the 257E with technology transfer France is

42:25 giving you the codes for Rafael which initially said yes and then said no. So the and they are uh not happy with what the US is doing nor are we happy with what US is doing. So is there a shift within the world island that you have the EU Israel Saudis India working together and looking at IMC going there. Trump may have made a big noise of IMC being taken to the US but the manner in which he's working I doubt if IMC will ever go to US. So yes there is a global shift. Yes. Are we going back to the preirst world war days of balance of

43:11 power. I leave it there. Thank you so much General Rajiv. And I just wanted to add some information to what you just said sir. the uh in Gilgit, Baltistan, the Karakurum highway has been blocked for the past several days and and uh no traffic is moving there. Uh you can see videos available. So things are brewing in Gilgit Baltistan also. This is supposedly a trader strike but there is more there than meets the eye. So just stay tuned on that one. We'll give you an update. Let's get back to General Ravish Shankar. General Ravish Shankar, China has this vision of, you know, wanting to build a million drones. Of course, they would be learning their lessons from what happened in operation Synindur to try and get around India's

43:56 system there. I'm sure they are also doing the same thing. Um, what are your thoughts on how India needs to counter that? Because a million drones, it's not going to be possible to stop those. This is these are all reports which come no mother son is going to make million drones and deploy them here and that too they'll get to get it to Pakistan and deploy is not a joke or to get it to the logistics of a million drones you should understand it doesn't happen I mean let's not get into these hyper bowl which you know China sells or you know publicizes if you take the Chinese very seriously you'll have a heart attack tomorrow so I think we should not bother beyond a point when reality is far

44:41 different. Okay, reality is far different while you know General Nan has given you a picture which where ch you know uh the whole area is going to change and all that that's a long-term project at this point of time America doesn't have the legs to do anything Trump doesn't have the legs to do anything he's not interested in all this he's only interested in money he's like a you know a horse with his blinkers on pa pa pasa so he's only looking at pasa So he's got his thing and he's the second thing after Pesa he's looking at China and that problem is going to happen here and Baluchasthan is in a crisis which general Naran very clearly said Sarab town is out of control today it's

45:27 one town tomorrow it'll be two towns the day after it'll be large of Baluchistan which be out of anyone's control and then where does Pakistan army go right they can't go anywhere except PA and notwithstanding whatever I mean notwithstanding whatever the Afghan uh you know Afghanistan, Pakistan and uh Pak and China do this uh trick there's a limit to what anyone can control Afghanistan and there's a limit to what anyone can control TDP also these emir also change every second day okay so I you know that the tribal loyalties there are so strong that no fellow will be able to give a edict to the other guy and the other guy will listen everyone will this thing. So we it is in our

46:14 interest uh already if you look at it u what uh the TTP is called quage and it is Hindustan Hindustan assisted quarage that is they are talking of Hindustan assisting TTP they are worried about Fitna Hindustan where in Baluchasthan so they're worried and I the way I look at it if they worried we should feed into their worry After all, Mosharov very famously said, you know, we give moral support to JNK people. So, we'll also give them moral support. Where's the problem? We must give them moral support. You know, we'll tell them, you know, we'll give them books and all that, you know, a lot of things. And we'll educate them of how to go about their business and develop their

46:59 businesses. So, all that we can do, but our larger issue is this. How do you deal with Pakistan which is okay with US and China also do can you depend on can you depend on USA right USA is very clearly trying to play you off saying look you don't look towards Pakistan you look only towards China when you look towards China will help you not only that they want you to you know be the front face of their action towards China why should you be right we don't want we we we have You mean people might say you know Neu was a fool to start non-alignment. It is not so today you are going back to that so same story of non-alignment you don't

47:44 want to be aligned with anyone you call it strategic autonomy that's about all but you there's a realization we have to say that we are on our own strategic autonomy is the name of the game okay in this today what are the opportunities America still remains an opportunity I mean as much as he's transactional you'll be also transactional with him absolutely as simple as that you can't get away from China 100% after all you have trade You have a trade of $1 billion, it's not going to run away. So you have to manage China the way it is whichever way it is. So where are the opportunities? The opportunities are in IMC. IMC was originally designed to go from you know Mumbai up to Greece areas. That's it. Get off to that and for that people are very more than happy to come

48:30 out. The EU is opportunity. I mean you might say EU has nothing but EU still is consists of rich states. I mean I'm talking practically of tomorrow today it's rich states they might their economy might be in a dump they still have technology and they need someone they have to remilitarize so that's an opportunity Russia remains an opportunity right the Southeast Asia remains an opportunity because everyone wants to hedge and after opsindur everyone will come to you they want akash they will want akash they will want brahmos they will want you know all your guns attacks everything they'll want. So that's an opportunity and it is and part of our geoeconomics we should

49:16 you know invest into these opportunities and like what uh general dooh was saying 3% I will say why 3% more invest because this is going to earn you money you know you're going to earn technology and you're going to earn money out of it so why don't do you do it do it and you trade your capability for technology all right another way of looking at this you have France France has always given you whatever ever you want he's already told you for Rafal he'll give you everything you know the bramos can be put on Rafal that's the latest thing that's what in fact general Naran sent to me look it's fallen in place it's like you know all these clicks falling in place so you have France who will give you as much engines you want a jet engine no go to soft he'll give you where's the problem

50:01 why should you go only to G and we need to start playing this off and I think we're good at it let's have confidence that we are good at it and there's One major factor which I would like to put across to everyone. We have people's trust in this world where you know everyone is not being transactional. There are a lot of people who trust India and that trust you can cash in. Trust and capability combined together are a lethal combination. However old-fashioned it might be right. It is it has its value even now. And people will come to you and like I have always said you can't you can't no one can stop you. I mean I this is a thing which I keep quoting. You see

50:48 Japan, South Korea, China, Germany all these are aided economies. They are producing economies. They can't consume. Their consumption is in the west which is stopped because the west is now screwing them. Their economies are going down. then consumption is not happening because they can't consume right the same thing no one can do to you because you're a consuming nation that equation doesn't hold that's where you get your strategic autonomy from the people of India give us strategic autonomy and if we don't get carried away by akandarat and this barat and that bat and all that and say look let's consolidate what we have even getting hold of gilded palistan is a headache for us why should you go why

51:34 should you stretch yourself What is the special great specialtity that you'll get out of Gilgited Baltistan? What is the great specialtity you'll get out of PJK? That one sliver of land with a whole lot of you know hostile people or for that matter Bangladesh. Bangladesh also has nearly today 180 million people. What do you do with 180 radical people? They can't go anywhere. You can't push them into the sea. At least in Pakistan you can push them out towards Afghanistan. So you have major issues and we should consolidate with them. In fact, I would put it this way. If there's a new global shift, the first thing I will do is I'll go transactional with everyone. But more importantly, I'll consolidate at home. That what if you are consolidated and strong at home, everything else will

52:20 fall in place. And for that, you need good politics. You need bipartisan politics within the country. You can't keep cursing each other. The political parties can't keep cursing each other and you know in a absurd manner right look what is happening today diplomatically you sent eight teams of all party members who are talking it is the opposition people who are coming to your rescue and talking to everyone isn't it that's the model to go forward so I think we need to redraw not only our way we think outside I think we need to redraw how we think inside also and I'll leave it at that. Thank you so much General Ra Shankar. General Duchan there's an opportunity cost thanks to

53:07 the success of operation Sindur. So I just wanted to clarify it's Israel which wants India's Akash and L70 modified because it's been always known that Iron Dome is very expensive for Israel to maintain and they were saying that they were looking for a lowcost option that they even had one. I'm not so sure about where things stand but what we are looking now is there is an opportunity that is coming knocking on India's door I'm told 21 countries want bramos now it was in two digits it's getting more and more so these are all things where India needs to scale up how confident do you think India is of being able to grab this opportunity because nobody is keeping quiet China has got its tail up it wants to do something to show to the

53:52 world because it's going to lose out all its customers in Africa and anywhere else where they have been peddling their technology if they don't do something radical and they need to prove that it is better than what they already have all this there is an opportunity and that opportunity has a cost associated with it how ready is India sir okay uh before I answer your uh this question I would like to just uh add few comments to the 1 million drones uh story you see the Chinese have a way of showing you know uh suddenly they created this aircraft which could throw out 400 odd drones and you know it could go and attack a particular target including loitering drones were there including kamakazi drones were there so all this

54:39 you know showbaji it does we should you know accept China's uh equipment once they are tested and validated so therefore we should you know be very very uh clear about the quality of the Chinese products. As far as 1 million drones is concerned, look, making drones is not very difficult. What we need to do is have a good counter drone systems which the Indians are working on. And I can I can tell you that uh even at the lower level, even at the levels of tactical level, our jawans are very good in jugar. Jard technology actually jugard technology actually came you know it has been invented by India and Manmahan

55:26 Singh made it very famous during his one of the speeches. So uh so at every level there is a work going on on the counter drone system. These are like toys if if you have very good counter drone systems and a fair amount of work has gone in. I can just assure you that much that people are working overtime. As regard the Israeli option of L70s etc is concerned. Look the L70s was a was a ad hoc arrangement which we had to do because we didn't have anything you know so we had to upgrade them the DG I had done a podcast with a current serving DGA and he had spoken about it. He said look we are trying to fight the battle with what we have got but this battle will be capable of matching up to new

56:13 generation uh equipment which others are producing. The others are producing very costly equipment. You know once you make it as a system it becomes costly. what we have achieved and this is something which only Jam Shanka and General Narayan Narayan will understand and that is the integration of all our systems. This was missing till Bala court. Let me also tell you that particular thing which happened which is also called Akashi etc. The real story people have worked for very long years to ensure that this integration take place. It finally took place. I hope it continues. I hope we move towards theater commands etc. That's how these integrations will move in and you will find even your uh

57:01 so-called uh legacy equipment performing to perfection. So idea is to use uh emerging technologies for command control and communication systems. Whether it is satellites, whether it is terrestrial communications or whether it is uh maritime underwater communications, everything has to get clubed into our C2 systems. Unless we do that, the UDA loop will remain long. And let me tell you in the second round if something happens and if we have declared new doctrine of any terror act being considered as act of war it is not only meant for Pakistan it is meant for Bangladesh I mean it is meant for anyone and everyone including

57:47 China. If China does something like a terror act and we are able to uh prove or we are able to find good credible evidence that Chinese are behind it, we will have to respond. Otherwise this doctrine will remain on paper and if you have to respond then we must have the capabilities and for that we have in even before obsur started we have started working upon it whether it is whether it is any country A or B totally transactional I attended a seminar which uh it was an open seminar the the civilians were also there everybody was there the Israeli ambassador himself spoke he gave the keynote talk and he said we are firmly behind India and will support India in any kind of assistance which they want.

58:35 Obviously, it will be a give and take arrangement. They would like to know as to how we did all this kind of integration and jard I I won't say jar as such. It's not it's a proper system. The only thing is that juggard becomes for the legacy equipment. you know we had if you had night fighting capability we put some night fighting capability all the 70s if we didn't have communications we put some communications on it so therefore you know it was it was kind of a add-on which we had to add to a legacy earlier they used to fight with fire with open eyes so all those things we have improved over a period of time and that is because of and it's because of that that we were able to do what we did this time we and during the conflict itself if you take the CDS's uh

59:23 statement It's not important what how many how much damage was caused. What is important is what did we do after the damage. You see we were innovating even after even once the battle was joined. The Pakistanis are only looking at it we their locations will get disclosed. Whereas we went ahead uh did some changes into our strategy and struck them on 9th and 10th so badly that they didn't have any answer except to say that we did not open fire because our positions would be disclosed. Yes, there are some positions of their still holding on but a number of them were knocked out and they knew that if they open up again they will also get knocked out.

1:00:09 So, so uh my thing is that opportunities are there like they have been already highlighted by General Rabi Shankar but the opportunities will be totally transaction it has to be give and take it cannot be a oneway process or you buy simply put you buy out you see uh the only way you can handle Afghanistan and it has been proved over history you have to pay the protection money to have your operations going on Whether it was the Mughals, whether it was the Russians, everybody has paid to the tribal leaders. The jurg believe in money and they want dollars and yes and Tamasa.

1:00:57 Now here the deep pockets will matter. The two deep pockets are trying to fight with each other. And normally you have seen in the fight of two big big cats it's always the the cat which is on the side wins wins wins the ultimate ultimate battle. So uh so these are the opportunities I would say in Afghanistan also we have a tremendous scope. You see we have to protect our three billion which we have already put put in there. The difference is we are putting it across the entire length and breadth of Afghanistan including Kabul river including the areas of Tajakistan Tajik Usbikaras wherever they are living you see we have to look in the future today it's Taliban I

1:01:43 think a kind of a practical approach would be that our fingers must be there with everyone if somebody somebody sitting somewhere we should continue to engage with them. You don't know when somebody will you know come handy. Hedging strategies are part of any nation's uh game doing living life. Absolutely. And and it is a practical world right from the beginning. Today morning also I did this show and I said look it's transactional now. Nothing is going to be now on the high moral high table kind of a diplomacy. World is one is good but world will be one only in case if you have brute power. Ram Dhari Singh

1:02:29 Dinker was a poet and national poet of India. He said [Music] Silent there. Thank you so much. General Duchian Singh Raj G if you would like to add to what the two good generals said then I'll have a a specific question for you sir. Go ahead. Okay. J35 of the Chinese. Yes. still a technology demonstrator and I'm happy that the Chinese are using park pilots as guinea

1:03:15 [Laughter] pigs go to any Chinese site also it's still a technology demonstrator which they show so if they are training park pilots means they are going to be the test pilots they are the guinea pigs that is the reason why he's planning to sell him at 50% of the cost he doesn't want and He has China has a problem. He doesn't have such trained pilots. Nor does I don't I wonder who's training them because there is an acute shortage of trainers also in China. So I think they must be leaving Pakist and if it crashes so be it. It is the Pakist. That's one. And yes it is.

1:04:03 That's why I said it is transactional and that is why pre uh World War I it was all transactional because it was a balance of power joining together to counter one person. So it was all transactional. No alliances were permanent. Somebody was with somebody, somebody went to somebody else and that is how it is likely to be. And uh like I always of of the opinion that forget Trump and his team uh just about uh me you could say guess in the US for about 3 years that's about all max because after that they are lamemed up the uh next election start target the wall street and the

1:04:49 MNC like Boeing wants to get out. See when you what he has done is he has proven to the world that what our government did for 10 years was something sensible. If you want to go for a trade war you got to have alternatives in place. Now if Boeing is getting things sourcing things from outside and everything else is being taxed obviously the cost of Boeings will go up. If the cost of Boeing is going up that means it is uh a pig's airbus will be on pig's back because they're they're not their country is not carrying all the others from where they are sourcing things and by the way a lot of parts of fuselage

1:05:34 and other things are made in India of both Boeing and Airbus. Yes, I would say let us source let us start talking to Boeing and say you come here and Boeing is the heart of aviation as far as US is concerned. Coca-Cola is running out thanks to him tariffing 50% of aluminium on Canada. The complete aluminium for the cans used to come from Canada. Now Coca-Cola wants to come out and go to some country which is not putting those tariffs. These things have not been thought through by Trump because as far as I know Trump cannot think. He doesn't know economy at all and nor do any members of his team and much is being

1:06:21 made off on Elon Musk. In any case, his uh I would say his appointment as adviser was only till 30th May. Yeah. So people saying no, Elon Musk has quit. No, it was only till 30th May. It's over. is working off but that is the biggest problem target the MNC's even like General Shankar has said you have so much of opportunity available with the companies in uh Europe most of the German automotive companies are shutting shop in the US get them here tell them you come here it'll be cheaper for them to make it here and sell it in US than to make

1:07:07 it in US to sell it in US. So the dynamics is today into geoeconomics also because while it is getting transactional these interdependencies don't change and that is the opportunity that you getting today which you should not miss and as far as Israel is concerned I visited Israel as part of a team delegation mod delegation I was part of it the then defense secretary had taken me for a one-on-one with the their defense minister and their head of R&D at that time Amos Gilad and now he's with Herzilia and they were both it was just nobody else I was there the defense

1:07:54 secretary was there and the sh of our embassy because the ambassador had been called to India there was some work on and from their side uh their uh def uh defense uh secretary and head of DRDO. He didn't take any DRDO or defense secretary didn't take any DRDO there itself. They said their biggest problem is uh the economy of scales. Whatever they have when they try to make it it becomes costly per piece. So they said if you're interested in anything that technology that we have they are ready to share the technology do the R&D on that equipment and get it made in India for them also because in

1:08:41 the economy of scales it will be cheaper for them. So this is I'm talking as far back as 2014 11 years ago. They would be interested in doing many things with you because it becomes cheaper for them. And these days as we go into higher and higher technology equipment does become costly and yes Iron dome if you're trying to hit a $20,000 do drone with a $250,000 missile it's not cost effective. It is not cost effective. So you have they see the legacy equipment. Uh I had had a word at that time when I was in the table. We were looking after all this with the director of uh a one of

1:09:26 the one of our directors who was from AD and we had had a long session with the DGA at that time J 6 and uh then we had gone to the air force navy and to monor part we made out a plan for all the legacy weapons what can be upgraded to those standards at that time and I'm talking about 20145 how to get it upgraded which is what they have upgraded it further and brought more things into it and brought this the first grain for akashir was laid in 2014 with bed but it it's been a rough ride I I don't know whether akash has been yes it

1:10:13 was very successful in the form in which were applied we may need to improve it further I'm Sure they will do that because they would have learned all their lessons not only from here from the battles in Ukraine and other things and will start doing it and yes while uh it will not be a million drones but see over a period of 4 days max about 6 to 1,000 drones were fired. I think China has learned his lesson and he'll go back to the mass attacks of what they used to do earlier under Mao and this time m of drones will be of drones and missiles. Yes. Not people because he doesn't have

1:10:58 that kind of boots today. So it will be drones and no and our people are already working on it at all levels to you the moment. So you raise it further while he's preparing for the bar that you have raised when you respond you respond to the higher level. See one of one thing we should keep in mind all these things we are talking China's economy is completely shot. He can't afford all these 1 million drones. Neither is US economy is in great shape. You know where you are and you know Trump will leave it in a bad shape. So the opportunity actually lies there. economics of it all. GE your geioeconomic opportunity lies in the

1:11:44 fact US economy is not going well. It might be big. It doesn't matter. The Chinese economy is not doing well. The European economy is not doing well. Who's doing well? Only India. You clocked 7.4% growth in the last quarter also. So that's the opportunity which you should consolidate. Yeah, absolutely. and you're almost you have beaten China in the last quarter in your uh weapon sales. You come to number three. One thing which we need to be careful of and that may prove a dampener to us. You know you talking about opportunity cost and are we ready to take on uh you know the new opportunities which are coming our way as far as our defense systems are concerned and their exports. uh unless

1:12:31 we deregulate you know today startups are being forced to today startups are being forced to uh take licenses industrial license I mean startups are having very very meager money how the hell they going to indulge in taking industrial licenses they have to be encouraged they have to be given that positive push so certain things we have to do in house unless we do that we will not be up to the timelines which we want to have otherwise you know it'll be like two batteries we are still not getting from Russia of course they have their own reasons for it but I in our case we have to deregulation and and the acquisition and development processes have to be speeded up bureaucracy removed from there otherwise uh we

1:13:18 cannot cash in on the opportunities which are coming up internal internal we have a lot of internal issues to sort out yeah absolutely absolutely to add to what jant is saying I would say that you have to desocialize all these business policies. We still into socialistic policies of business. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I think we'll take some questions and get ahead. Yeah. Just just give me one second. I want to wrap one thing. Uh General Rajiv Naran said that instead of dealing with the United States government, deal with the MNC's and deal with the Wall Street. Well, um, one thing that is coming down the pipeline and I am personally still opposed to it, but I see the reality. The National Stock Exchange is allowed to go public and this will unearth a lot of money

1:14:03 that FIS foreign institutional investors had put in when it was originally founded. NSE has done scorched earth policy for many other local exchanges and and gift exchange is supposed to be the one that is supposed to be the best of all these things. I have no clue and no idea where that is. But if NSE goes public then some of the FIS would be able to realize the money that they have sunk into it about what 10 15 years ago and and this could be one way to try and say oh look you you do you can actually monetize your investment in India. See that's a big perception problem that India has to fight with in that taking money into India is easy. Taking money out is very difficult. This needs to be broken. I think that's what is going to

1:14:49 happen in NYSE. Again, personally, I think it's a bunch of corrupt crooks who are doing that. They they've made a lot of money and along with them, the FI has also made a lot of money. I mean, I can write a chapter. I mean, I can talk for two hours on this. But let me just say that if if this could be one way the Indian government could be reaching out to the Wall Street because that's where the money came from. My opinion, sir. Um let's say I would entirely agree but I would add one Hindi prover chosere you wanted to add something no no we'll take questions I think otherwise we'll be long yeah we're going to quickly go through the questions request everybody to take 30 seconds and not more than that for answering I'll just go in circular fashion first let me

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