0:00 [Music] In this episode of Insights at the Edge, I'm here with Carolyn Mace, a very dear friend personally and of Sounds True. Carolyn is a New York Times best-selling author, five times speaker, teacher. Her books include Anatomy of the Spirit, Sacred Contracts, Why People Don't Heal and How They Can, and more. She holds degrees in journalism, theology, intuition, and energy medicine. And in 2003, Carolyn established her own
0:45 educational institute known as CMED. with Sounds True. Carolyn Mace has created more than 20 learning programs and the most recent, the newest program is called The Way of Guardians and Grace and that's what we're going to be talking about. We are introducing this program online as a 7week experience. It begins on June 30th. It's 11 hours of recorded teachings and Carolyn is offering three live sessions to answer your questions. Carolyn, let's get into it. Wow. Did we have done that many programs together? We really have since
1:31 the since like 1989 when we started. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Well, hi. Hi there. You started this program as we were recording in a studio together with a small audience and you said this is the time. This is the time for me to come forward. And I I believe you actually used the metaphor of coming out of the closet that this was the time for you to come forward and share about how what you call holy messengers spirit guides, angelic presences have informed your life and work. Why now? Well, I think we're living at a time,
2:18 I'm sure in history other people would could make the statement in 1938 we're living at an unprecedented time of chaos in the world. But today, the ingredients that are creating this chaotic rupture that we are living have never come together before, ever, Tammy. We've never had, for example, the birth of a whole different system of information, AI. We've never had global, uh crisis um like pandemics, climate change. Um, I think we're on the precipice of entering the galactic community. So we're we are we
3:04 are literally transitioning to a very different type of information species where um we have nature intelligence, we have AI, we have artificial and I think it's time for mystical intelligence to be seen as um an actual ual part of our inherent apparatus. Okay, so that's a lot of word. Let me say it differently, which is this time of transition. I think from a a different a completely different perspective. I think the size and the types of the
3:49 challenges that are facing us today are of such great proportion that we are what we believe to be true. And how we understand the universe is inadequate to navigate the crisis that we have. from understanding our our health to understanding the nature of our spirit to understanding what our spirit needs to thrive to understanding that this is in fact a sacred universe. I think that the um you and I won't live to see this, but I think where we're going very much is that the inadequacies of religions are are being felt in people
4:39 and it has to be rep but we haven't replaced that and yet we we need to have something that I think a bi-piritual ecological theology in which We actually involve ourselves and and the human design and how we understand the way this universe works, the nature of God and how the universe has set up the experience of life and the companionship the universe provides us when we're here. And I don't mean human companionship. I mean the presence of messengers or angels, the angelic community, the demonic community. This this is very real and for some reason in
5:27 these last 50 60 70 years maybe it's because we entered the nuclear age and we really became incredibly stuffdriven, physically driven. um that we have dismantled our relationship to the sacred and and become dismissive dismissive of it. While over here in my work as a medical intuitive, all I saw is how present and essential it is to understand how your spirit or your soul is involved in every single choice you make and how your biography becomes your biology. How all of this is one huge
6:15 system. So I think we've reached a point where the way we understand the universe through five senses is simply inadequate. And now we need to all of us come out of our intellectual closet and begin to consider the unimaginable that maybe just maybe life's not casual. that a human life is a sacred assignment and that the the purpose of life is not to accumulate stuff with a great big huge shopping cart, but rather it is to experience how powerful every one of us is and to decide, you know, what rules of creation am I going to to to to serve and to get that um every choice
7:01 I make is an act of creation. And if that's so, it's true for everybody. And if that's so, the way we should understand this universe and the experience of life is that it really is a spiritual treasure. It's a it's a uh it's a very holy journey. Um so it's time for me to talk about that. It's a time for me to really talk about the fact that from the time I was the a little child, I have heard the whispers of an angel in my ear or a guide. And and I want to be real clear as I am when I'm writing the book for you that these what I call many micro mystical experiences
7:47 are not unique to me. What may be unique to me is how I responded to them. and that and that this isn't a constant dialogue of, you know, every day good morning and they talk. No, the the guidance I've had and continue to have has been very sightspecific. It's always involved uh like saving my life or getting me out of danger. But never has never have I been directed for example to invest in stock or any kind of nonsense of which the earth cares the heaven cares nothing about. It has always been to assist me in ways that I didn't know
8:33 I needed assistance or when I finally became very conscious of this and really understood the power of prayer when I asked on behalf of someone else to have help sent. This is a very benevolent and loving universe. But believe me, what really matters is what we do for each other. Carolyn, you tell a story and you weave stories throughout this new series, which is part of what makes it so compelling to engage in it. You tell a story from when you were little and the voice of your guide had you make a choice about the direction of your life. And it's a story that has stayed with me in a very profound way and I wonder if
9:20 you can share it. It gives an example of your own interaction with these holy messengers. Yeah. That that was the story that I didn't tell anyone ever until I told my spiritual director Tom and I said I want I think I want to start sharing with you um other parts of my life. And that story for some reason just had this profound impact on him. So I'm going to start by telling everyone I was um prior to what I'm going to share with you. I was very much aware of guidance. It and I cannot emphasize enough how ordinary it was. There was nothing
10:07 extraordinary for me about anything I'm about to share or the fact that I I would receive guidance in such a almost theatrical way when I was a little child and I got accustomed to that and I actually thought it was the same for everybody. And one of the ways grace works is that it anesthetizes you in such a way that you are yourself unaware that you've just experienced a phenomenon and it just gets absorbed you whatever you experience just gets absorbed into the organic structure of your life. So, as a child, I and I mean five, six, little, a little, I would uh
10:53 whenever I was upset about something, I'd go in my room and I would sit down and I'd sit on this pillow and I'd close my eyes and I would be I think the whole the whole of my interior was easily manipulated by by heaven at that time. And I would I would feel, think, smell, be in a theater. And this same guy would always walk on stage and he would describe the situation that I was upset about and the and the people like whether it was my my mother, my dad or something like that. Um and they would be like cut out paper dolls on the stage and he would say, "Now this is what your dad is thinking right now and this is what your mother see. That's why they're
11:39 upset and it isn't you." And I really, it was this impersonal wonderment that I thought, "Oh, okay. So that's what's going on in adults and that's how it is and that's how people are thinking and you have to know what people are thinking." And then one night when I was probably between six and seven, I was going to bed and I had a nightlight and I went to turn off the nightlight. But before I could turn it off, I looked and there he was sitting at the foot of my bed. It's the only time ever I had an experience like this. And it didn't strike me. I told the earlier story because I've seen I saw him before. So there was there was no part of me that thought this was unusual because I had
12:26 seen him and he'd been around and he was like this invisible companion friend that I of course I mean there was it was so ordinary. So he said, "It's time for me to ask you a question." And he put these gifts and they look like sparkling boxes. And he says, "You get to choose one. One for your whole life. And one of them was power, one of them was wealth, one of them was fame, one of them was beauty, and then there was this last one." He said, "You get one one." And and I looked and I thought, well, now if I choose power, you can make me powerless. And if I choose beauty, you can make me ugly. And if I choose
13:13 wealth, you can make me poor. So this is how I did my calculations in my thinking. And I said, I want this one. And he says, why do you want that one? And I said, because I swallow it and it goes inside and you can't get it. So it was completely selfish. It was driven so that he couldn't take it back. But I had chosen wisdom. And he started laughing and he said, "Well done. Well done." And then he actually turned off my nightlight and I went to sleep. When I woke up in the morning, you know, I went about my life as ordinary as if and that's how this kind of anesthesia grace just blankets you. I remembered the experience. The experience would
13:58 come out. It would flash into my head critical times like in college when I had to make a decision about something and I didn't know what to do and I and were I was very tempted to go one way and all of a sudden that choice came up. It just flashed through me and it took and I thought, "Oh my god, that happened to me. I remember that." And and I would choose the other way. And it's interesting because you see, it wasn't hearing my guide say, "No, no, go this way. It was a reminder that there was a track that I was on." And but I had to choose that. Could I have at any point, Tammy, chosen
14:45 something else? I pro probably maybe but it the the the the trust the comfort I had in always going that way. When I was um nine, I was at my cousin Chrissy's. She had gotten married. She had two little girls at the time. One was two, one was four. She had the perfect little house, the perfect little place with a lovely marriage. So any but at this time um she was the first she's my eldest cousin the first to get married the first to have children the first. So in my family, you always have all the aunts and aunt aunts over and the girl cousins and then you do a lunchon and yada yada yada because they just got in their house. And I'm watching this and in this
15:30 these kinds of mystical experiences and it's very hard to describe this actually. I've tried and tried in my book. They happen in the blink of an eye and yet they feel so allconsuming. It's a timelessness. It's the timelessness of it that is so profound. And in that you're almost separated from the dynamics of your own life in this microsecond. You're just separated and then you are re you re-engage. It takes me 10 times longer to describe this than it actually happened. But in that moment, my guide said to me, "You'll never marry in this
16:15 life." And now, you know, when you tell people, "Oh, you know, you poor thing." And and what I was like condemned. I I got to tell you, no, it was so comforting to me. And I thought, okay, because what it it meant to me was that I'm on some kind of path and the path has I'll be just fine. It never occurred to me. It was it was like anesthetizing an appetite to get married. I tried four times to get out of it. I had four engagements, but every single time. Every single time that that whisper I was reminded of, no, but they never tell you
17:00 why. They never tell you. You're never given insight into, well, if this then what do I get? If I don't if I can't have children, then what do I get? If I can't have, you know, heaven does not work like that. It is so extraordinary in its guidance. It's so it requires your end of it is trust. Your end of it is faith. Your end of it is to actually get the truth that everything you do matters. And so you're guided, but you're not bullied. You're not told what to do. But you have to understand how guidance works. It's, you know, I I think human beings want to be told everything and then the outcome and then it'll never be.
17:45 Now, you said your end of it is trust. Your your end of it is faith. And that's what I want to talk to you about, Caroline, because while we were together and we were recording this over four days, I felt like I was living in a different atmosphere. I don't know how else to put it. And that atmosphere was quite elevated, fully trusting, fully faithful. I was immersed in these stories that you were sharing from your life and the different turning points that happened and the growth and development of your life and how it all unfolded. And I I was there. And then afterwards, I came back to my life, which has one tentacle, if you will, in that holy
18:31 atmosphere, but also has other tentacles that are filled with things like I'm not quite so sure, doubt, fear, things like that. And I remember during the recording at one point I asked you about, you know, lots of people are afraid of this, that, or the other thing. They're not holding up their side of the trust and the faith. And you're like, "Okay, what are you afraid of?" And you were sort of, I mean, to be honest, dismissive in a way. You're like, "You're afraid of dying? You're going to die. Great. Let's check that one off. You're afraid of losing your money. Go get a job." Like, you kind of was like, it was like, "Okay, we don't we're not here to indulge your your your fears, doubts, and concerns." But I want you to address that more because I think a lot of people have this uh they want
19:20 to be in that elevated atmosphere of trusting the way of guardians and grace, but we're not fully there. Well, of course not, and you never will be. And let's just just just say that the goal of being fully there, it's not going to happen. It is um a constant ongoing return to faith. It's a constant. It's is it's a constant. And I think because human nature is the way human nature is is that we we can't stop ourselves from having expectations or hopes or this. We can't stop ourselves from making decisions the motivation of which is to maintain a semblance of
20:06 control in our lives. We can't stop it. Of course, we want that. We we the physicalness, the physical part of us wants to, you know, cross our tees and dot our eyes in the physical world. And what um how do I explain this? What heaven does? No, heaven is the nature of God is law. Let me be really clear here. The nature of God is law, light, and love. Those are the best three elements I can put together. And why I emphasize law is because everything really is cause and effect, action and reaction. Everything
20:52 works like that. And when we make our choices based out of fear, we create a consequence that's made from fear. When we make our choices based out of greed, we we have a consequence of that. and and heaven your guide will not come in and say where do you see what happens because you did this but again and again when someone is at a fearful crossroads it's the type of fear that if you think the fear of the unknown I don't know I don't know if I should do this but if you had a rapport with
21:37 yourself having knowing you have guides does not in any way take away fear. But if you felt deep deeply that I'm frightened but I feel like I should do this. That's how guides work. That's how it's the should. I feel like I there's something about this. I should do this. I should do that. And what heaven does is the thing about choosing the unknown or the path that's new is that's the path you have the least amount of expectation obstacles. That's the path you have the least amount of control mechanisms wired
22:24 into the subcutaneous level of your choice. And that's what is an angel freedom to interact in your life is your absence of expectations, your absence of control mechanism. Because it what it means is that you your consciousness hasn't made choices. I want this to be red and I want this to go left and I want this. Angels have to stand back and say, "Okay, it's not supposed to be red. You're not supposed to go left. But I know inevitably you'll go left only to find out you should have gone right. So I'll wait for you. But if you're on a path and you're not sure what to do, your guide has more uh freedom to encourage you because you are
23:11 not you haven't already decided uh through control and fear. I expect this to happen. I expect that to happen. And so I and I think we're always going to have fear. We're always Tammy. But it's the type of fear and what we do with it. And the and the fear of moving forward to discover more about your own creative potential is a very negative fear. It's a very harmful fear. And what you know what we're here to do is to explore our the extraordinary width and depth of our own creative power. And again and again, the universe will
23:56 always set us on a course where we end up at crossroads to make choices where things quote didn't work out as we planned because some other plan is in mind and instead of of becoming frightened and and oh no, what do I do now? Standing back and saying, okay, what am I what do you what am I being told? What am I being told? That would be your best response. What am I being told here? And how do I maneuver this? I am I'm I'm frightened. And in like in my prayers, whenever I am concerned about something, I'll always say in my prayers, you get the night shift. I'll
24:41 take the day shift. Re-shuffle the deck during the night and let me see what I have to deal with in the morning. And I always assume that during the night whatever changes happen in my life, it could be nothing, could be something, but when I get up in the morning, I assume everything's in place for exactly what I need that day. All right. I started Caroline by asking why now? Why are you talking about spirit guides and holy messengers right now? And you said because of the times that we're in. And another thing you bring up in the series is that you ask people about faith. What do you have faith in? And that people will tell you all the things they don't have faith in.
25:29 You know, I don't have faith in the but it's hard for people often to come up with what they do have faith in. And I want to link these two ideas because I think we do have a faith crisis at this time. People look around at what's happening in the world and they're like, "How could you possibly have faith when we see what's happening and they can then list off the numbers of examples of utter human cruelty and devastation? So, how do you address the collective faith crisis of our time? It's not just a personal connection. It's not it's it's huge. I think it's that we um first of all we started to that's that's the biggest question you could ask and the
26:16 the way that I would answer it if we were in a classroom is that I'm going to start by stretching your understanding of these last decades and realize that slowly and slowly as we turned our attention to empowering ourselves as we turned our attention to um our values, our who we were, how how entering the nuclear age changed us. And it did. And it did. Um we discovered that this was an age of inner space and outer space. These are the two new frontiers. Our internal who
27:03 are we? What are we made of? How does our consciousness work? What is this? Do we in influence our health? Do we all of this? And in the process, we discovered a whole new realm of healing. What needs healing? Our micro self, our attitudes up etc. etc. But in the process of that, we started to rumage through what collective beliefs should still be animated and should and what we should deanimate. And um I I think what we did was on this path of discovering our self which which we are supposed to be on the path of
27:50 discovering how powerful the individual human being is. We enter a kind of narcissism that is a collective experience as well. this collective narcissism. But the shadow side of it is very seductive. You know, every one of my needs matters. Every one of my opinions is important. Everyone of my that has anything following my own path. Walking away when I feel like it. In order to make narcissism succeed, what it does is it gives you permission to cut the strings attaching you to the conventional way that once
28:36 anchored you in values, that once anchored you in ethics, that once anchored us all in collective belief systems, like there is an God and and there's some kind of greater than me that exists. Narcissism collect conflicts with that because the way we started to measure our significance was not in the good we do but in what we could get and the permission we could have to be and do whatever we want without and this is really really important to understand without rules applying that the measure of success one of the measures of success
29:23 is that we reach a place where we actually think the rules don't apply to us anymore. Oh, I I don't have to wait in line. I don't have to. I have this. I know that. We become rule breakers and become lawb breakakers. And part of the fallout from our narcissistic collective is that not abiding by law, not abiding by rules is seen as the privilege of rank. Now we see that in governments, we see that in people, we see that in relationships. Oh, I don't have to keep my vow. We see that we've given ourselves an incredible
30:10 permission to actually experience our shadow side, which is what we're in right now. We're in the collective shadow and its narcissism and its creative capacity. This is all I mean, if if I were if I could take you off the planet and say just look at this. Eventually, we'll come out of this. But this is the path of us discovering a different relationship with our own nature, our own power our own individual consciousness.
30:55 And um in discovering this power, we have to at one point say what's the source of it? What's the source of this power? And that ultimately to me will lead people to understand that all life breathes together and that's the holy breath and that's this is a sacred universe. What makes this time so extraordinary is we're between gods. We're between things that we would conventionally believe in and have faith in. And it's it's very easy to lose faith in conventional religion and all of this, but we don't know what yet to have faith in. And the reason I ask
31:42 people, "What do you have faith in?" and they usually give me a blank look is because they know inherently and this is just the way we're wired that if you actually announce well I have faith in um that there is a God and that that God is watching me whatever you know that you will be held accountable to that declaration of faith you people are terrified that so long as they live in the fog then they don't have to have an high voltage moral conscience. They can say, "Well, I'm not sure. I mean, I'm not sure if there's any consequences. I'm not sure. I'm not sure." And that's what gives evil so much authority is the inability
32:30 to declare that you're on the side of good. And what faith is is a way of saying, "Look, I I can't explain all the stuff that's happening in the world, but I do know that the choices I make matter, and I want them to be filled with grace." Is it fair to say, Carolyn, that you have faith in love, light, and law? And if that's true, you shared a little bit about what you mean by law. Tell us what you mean by love and light. I mean those are words a lot of people use in different ways. Well I I have to start with law. To me the nature of God is law which means it's consistent. It's the organization of the universe. It's the speed of orbits of planets. It's the tide. It's law. But
33:17 the law applies to absolutely everything. Cause and effect action and reaction. When people say how could this world all of the this is the result of our choices not anything else and because it's law the way the laws work is if you to use a metaphor with if you overcharge on your debt heaven's not on you what do you call that thing a charge card heaven's not going to come in and say oh you poor thing here's a check for $500,000 go pay off your debt no you're held held accountable to your debt. But if you start praying, I don't want to do this again. I've just gotten myself into a big mess and you got to help me become
34:04 strong enough not to give in. Then you have more help than you can possibly imagine because this is light and let's go up to light and love. What I realized is that essentially the journey of life is is all of us exist in our our relationship to physical power and our love of power and our need for that to watching all those choices evaporate which they eventually do and realizing the power of love over the the love of power. That's the transition we're on, Tammy. And if and if I had to say what's the purpose of love that's it you are going you your life is a journey of where you experience all your conflicts
34:50 are are powerbased power conflicts power this power that and eventually if you you look and you think what choices am I making that are contributing to the creation of this and if I'm making those kind of choices what would happen if I started to make choices that were based on light that were based on love. What if I started to trust the mystical truth that a rising tide lifts all ships? That what is in one is in all. What if I started to live the mystical truths? What if what if I mean I mean one woman that I met she she's homeless. She's home she was homeless. She sees a man across the
35:36 street also homeless. Instead of thinking of herself in that moment, she prayed for him. And within five minutes, a man walked up to her and said, you know, can why don't you come over? I and she had a job because she was praying for someone else, for someone else. the power of love but we don't trust that we don't trust it because love this kind of love I think love is the name that we have given to what the power of God feels like and that's our best way of feeling what is the highest most wonderful feeling we can possibly have and that's the feeling of love loving our own life
36:22 loving our part loving our friends loving our our pets love. But that's that's like sampling the power that all that is the substance of all creation. And we we have yet to come to trust that if I use this power with the laws, if I make laws, if I make my choices based on cause and effect, well, love might be more effective. And it doesn't mean the personal love that I have for you is my dear friend. But it's me understanding that if I make a choice based on benevolence, based on grace, based on what's the right thing to do, it's going to produce an
37:09 outcome much greater than I ever thought. The thing is I can't have any attachment to that outcome. Whereas with dark choices, we are attached to them. I want to see the consequence of this. I wanted to, you know, that's where our control mechanism comes in. So for me, God is God's in those dark choices too. Make no mistake because the power of creation covers the spectrum. It covers the dark. It covers the light. But the journey to become someone who's capable of making choices, realizing my great power is that I can make choices that benefit others as well as me as as that benefit the whole. I'm going to play by those
37:56 rules. And that's when you say to your guides, "Give me some badass guidance. Help me to help others." Whoa. Heaven opens up like you wouldn't believe. So in the way of guardians in grace, you tell these personal stories that point to and illustrate these various wisdom teachings. And one thing, Caroline, you and I have talked about how we've known each other for a long time since the late 1980s. But I don't really know the answer to this in your own life even after recording the series with you which is I noticed in the past I don't know how many years or so but you have developed this incredible capacity to
38:45 point to love to help me feel it to help me know it as this I'll just use language that's you know as this quality of infinite grace that's palpable that I can sense and what I wonder is in your own life was it through your relationship with Teresa of Avala and the opening of that mystical consciousness that you experienced this or how did you come to know this yourself? You know, I'm not actually quite sure. I think you I just wrote something about it's so funny Tammy in writing my own story telling my own story I forgotten
39:31 so much of it but when you slow down in peace I don't know why do I believe that I remember when I first started doing medical intuitive readings how much I did not want to do this because I never wanted to be involved in anything where sick people were or where needy people were or I did I my I'm telling you my ideal life as a kid was I pictured myself to be a hermit. There was a movie, The Life of Somerset Mom, and made way back in the 50s, but I saw it in the early 60s. And he was apparently a raging alcoholic, but he'd come home uh after a night out all the time. And he like like a soldier, he wrote from 6:00 in the morning till 9 in in the
40:16 morning, which gave him permission to be a drunkard all day long. But he someone said, "Why do you want to be a writer?" And he says, "Oh, because I contribute to the world." and no one recognizes me. I walked down the he says I'm completely anonymous but completely there and I something in me said that's what I want. That's the kind of life I want. So I I headed in that kind of that direction. But when I started, when I met Norm, when this skill happened, everything was So, you're referring to Norm Sheiley, the Harvard trained neurosurgeon who you did your medical intuition work with. Everything seemed to be organized around
41:02 that in ways I couldn't. And I was I still hadn't met Norm. I still found this doing readings overwhelming because I was very aware that these people were ill that they wanted me to explain things I I I could that they might ask me questions about their medication, things that were completely inappropriate for me. One day this woman, we used to do these meet the client, meet meet these people at the publishing house at the end of the day. I walk in to speak to this woman and I looked at her and the moment I looked at her, Tammy, I felt this extraordinary wave of love. I mean, it was it was just the way mothers must
41:50 feel when they finally give birth and the baby's put in their arms for the first time and it's like, wow. But it was bigger, bigger, great, big, huge. And I sat across from her and I looked at her and I said, "What can I do for you?" and she looks out the window and then she looks at me. She says, "Nothing. I'm done." And she walked out. I never had a conversation with her, but I I felt like, "What the heck? Did she just What is that?" for the next three days. My I was my p my clarity intuitively to help others was like a laser. It was the first time I actually could see dates, times when when events happened. I mean, it was just like boom, boom, boom. And I was on this high where
42:37 everything I looked at, everything I looked at, I only felt love, not personal. It was just this deep, wow, love. And then it left, stopped. But it by that time it had taken hold. And I I thought, what the heck was that? And ordinary human interaction was insufficient for me. Ordinary was just insufficient. It was not enough. It was not It was not authentic enough. It was not beautiful enough. So from that point on, that was kind of this, you know,
43:25 compass in me. And I realized that through the years, you know, I had a reputation, have a reputation, whatever, as being kind of direct and blunt and crusty and all that. What happens when I'm in a reading or with people is that all I can think about is what can I say that will empower you? Like this series we did, what from my life can possibly possibly help you with your life? Because it's not about my life. It's any any of the jewels I've acquired. I'm giving away. I want to give away all the jewels I acquired because I know how powerful they are. And where I get I can feel myself getting shorted and short-tempered and
44:12 blunt. It's not at the person. It's at that I can feel that darkness that they are still in alignment with. And I think if I could snap you out of that, you have no idea how extraordinary your life is going to be. If I could just get you out of that. Okay, that that says a little bit. And I got a sense of the love component. I want to uh talk more about light because you share in the series your own experience of and you use this word being rewired and you talk about how seizures are known as the mystic's affliction and how you went through a
44:58 period of four years of having seizures and you also share and this was very powerful I think Caroline for me at least about how your guides helped you through that even to the point of uh well I'll let you tell the story. When I hear when I've heard my angel directly, it's been in situations where my life was in some way in danger or whatever. And on this particular night, I was still living on my farm in New Hampshire. It was 20 of midnight. And um a lot you know before I go into this I
45:45 will say that first of all I just left the publishing company and it was traumatic for me. I was in publishing because I really did for all that was happening with Norm and me and my my my inner life getting more active. I still could not see myself as doing a life of service for other people. I couldn't. So, um, things got very difficult in the publishing and I finally left and I remember being in my at my desk chair in my office, Tammy, and I heard and felt eight drillings taking place in my head like that
46:34 long eight. I felt it go into my brain. I felt it. And I remember thinking, well, this is just what the heck. And then I went on with my day. Um, it was shortly after that, maybe months, I don't whatever, that I was sitting at my desk. It's 20 to midnight. I had a little white electric clock plugged in. Desk was right here. Right here was my Panasonic phone. And I looked, I said, "Oh, it's 20 to midnight." And it was lights out. The next thing I know, I open my eyes. I'm on the floor. My phone is right next to me on the floor. And the clock is turned to face
47:19 me on my desk. It's 20 after midnight. And I thought, what am I doing here? What What happened? And my guide said, "You've had a grand mall seizure. Call Norm." And as soon as I heard that, I it's like I grabbed on. I said, "Okay, okay, okay." And it quelled all my fears. Now, I've had relatives die of brain tumors. And so, I thought, "Well, okay." But nowhere, and I emphasize this, nowhere did my guide say, "And you're going to be just fine." I didn't know that. I didn't know that. I didn't know what was facing me. I didn't know if I had a malignant brain tumor. I didn't know.
48:05 But what I was told is what had just happened to me and what to do. So the the next day I I called Norm and I I went to Chicago. I picked up my mom and then we went to Springfield, Missouri where Norm had his clinic and he ran an MRI and he did all of this looking for a brain tumor. And then he said to me, "I can't find anything." Um he said, "It's idiopathic. I don't know why this happened. But again that began four years of lights out. So you want to talk about light and um when I tell people face their fears
48:51 it's not because I haven't had fears to face. It's because I knew that if I learned I learned through my own life that if I gave into the power of the fear, it would then control my biology. Did I know how to do that at first? Absolutely not. And I was terrified. And I would say in my prayers, if this is what I have to face, then just be with me through this. Be with me through this. Get me through this. Be with me through this. But I also knew that I couldn't ask to have what was given to me taken away. Like I I knew I said, "Get me through this." I didn't know how long it would be. I It
49:37 could have been gone on for my life, but it went on for four years. I told you one time I was in the kitchen of my This was uh the last one, so it was like 28 years ago, right? And I'm in my kitchen in my townhouse that I used to live at. And I had two stools at a bar, at the coffee bar, the kitchen counter bar, and I felt a grand mall come on. And it came on at this darkness in the back. And I thought, "Oh my god." And I look over and I see where my couch is and I think, "I've got to get to the couch." Because this was a hard tile floor and my counter was was a tile with sharp corners. And I thought, "Oh my god." But by the time that starts, it's too late. And I heard my guide. My guide
50:25 said, "Let go. I've got you." And I woke up on the floor. I should had a broken neck, Tammy. But that stool was 10 ft from me. And I was totally fine. The only thing they'd forgotten was a blanket. I mean, I was totally fine. And I I and I and my response is you you want me to go through this. I don't know why. And they never tell you why. They never tell you why any more than they would tell you why you need to love Julie or why you need to love your dogs. They don't ever Why is not a question heaven will ever answer.
51:12 Ever. Which is why faith was so important. I mean I not once did I say how could this be happening to me. It is happening to me. It is happening to me. So get me through this. Get me through this. Tell me how to navigate this. Tell me how to And then when it stopped, it was after that I moved back to Chicago. I got my house that Teresa happened. And I think my wiring by this time experiences like that for me for me brought me ever more into myself and into prayer because I felt very vulnerable in the world and yet my experience of the world had always been
51:59 my world that I was totally protected and guided. So even though I had one of the most vulnerable, you know, disorders at the time, seizures that could that knocked me out in an airport one time, one time I was abandoned underneath a sink. Still, I was never harmed. I was never harmed. My neck was never Everything that happened was the most mild version of what could have happened. You know, I could guess the answer to this, Caroline, but I want to hear your answer, which is why are seizures a mystics disorder? What happens in the process that makes you
52:45 allows more mystical attunement? Okay, so this is a real crazy answer, but I think that um if you if you if you look at any apparition from Saul of Tarsus, who became St. Paul to any apparition. One of the elements, the element that's spoken of first is light. So bright they had to close their eyes. So bright they couldn't bear to look at it. Light is the substance of God. This this is this light in its many many many many endless countless endless countless shades of light and power. And I think that we
53:32 are our our neurology. What a mystical ex what a seizure can do is that it somehow burrows a animates a circuit that ordinary consciousness doesn't need. You're wired differently. It starts animating. One of the reasons I think that we now have so many neurological disorders, so many from autism to bipolar to whatever, is that I think a collective rewiring is happening. It's like a collective mystics disorder.
54:18 And I think it's it's because I think we are now in a collective universe where the quality of light coming into our planetary community has been expanded has been expanded has been widened if I can use that. But our neur we have to our neurology our biology has to accommodate that. And so over the next couple of centuries, that's exactly what evolution will do is accommodate the quality of light that's coming in. That will make us more perceptive. It makes us more sensitive.
55:04 It makes us uh a very different quality of human intelligence. It's mystical intelligence. And I think that's what we talk about people being on the spectrum and this and that and all of this. I think they're having circuits opened up in them. The previous generations, the pre-nuclear generation didn't require, but we are in a different age and a different time. And our neurology is adapting. And for me, the seizures were like mystical downloads and certain paths were opened in me. And that's what it took. Caroline Mace has recorded with Sounds True a new 11hour video teaching
55:52 series. It's called The Way of Guardians and Grace. You can join the program. It begins on June 30th. It's a seven-week experience. And Carolyn is offering three live Q&A sessions as part of the seven-week journey. Just come to soundsr.com to learn more. Caroline, as we end, you mentioned that you poured out in this program every way you could think of through your own personal stories in your life and teachings. How can I empower you? I I would use language around how can I empower you? This is how it affected me to uh grow in holy
56:37 trust. That's how it affected me. Honestly, if I could inspire people to just turn that light on and keep it on themselves to trust that that to stop measuring how their life is going by what has happened it what has happened instead it's by what could happen if I was in partnership with the holy world. How would my life change? How would my life change? What would be required of me? How would I have to start making my choices differently? And they would definitely have to be more lightfilled
57:22 and loved directed because that's the the the reason people don't want to ignite that faith is they're terrified of generous choices. They're terrified of it, Tammy. Why? Why? Why? Why be terrified? Because you have to follow through. Because um I think people are terrified of it because there is a mechanism that people have to get over which is what about me? What about me? I should come first. That whole sense of deserve and entitlement that that keeps a person feeling that selfish self-centered choices are are are healthier
58:09 are are no what opens up the gateway is when you start saying I'm going to trust that I'm on a path you're watching over my path so that I can take care of others so that I can make choices that benefit others so that you know get give me a wide birth. Take care of things. Take care of those details for me. And I I I I just feel so strongly. I I know it's the way. So I don't I have you know what you feel with me? I have no doubt at all about that. None. None. Zero. And I see what doubt does to people and
58:55 fear and I think oh you that's what short circuits me. I think why are you living? That's why people suffer. There's pain and suffering. But suffering comes from the fear of letting love work, of letting those choices work, of trusting that if I do something for someone else, what if I won't be appreciated? What if this or what? What? No. No. Carolyn Mace, Igniting Our Faith, the way of guardians and grace, embracing the sacred world. Come join us. Caroline, thank you so much. Always. Thank you. Always, always.
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