0:00 We are going to move into a world where intelligence has no value. Think about that for a moment. Meet Donald Clip, a citizen of both the US and Hong Kong. He lived in Singapore for 10 years and runs a business that has closed over a billion dollars in deals. Donald shared why Singapore is developing faster than Hong Kong, how to make money using the latest AI tools, and which professions are at risk of being eliminated by AI. I'm Max Chernov, your insider to expert life. Let's go. How's the working culture and like doing business culture is different in Singapore versus Hong Kong? I feel like in Hong Kong people kind of like the energy is there a little more there to like get things done and like I think the the energy is
0:45 a little lower here. But I think the good thing is like there's just so many people that have moved here, you know, over the last few years. So a lot of what we do actually in Singapore, we actually the business that we have in Singapore to help Singaporeans is focused on helping them pull cash out of their home equity in Singapore. So that that's been pretty easy. We hiring here has been difficult. I think that's one challenge that we've had is hiring. I think the labor pool in Singapore is quite thin. like you're if you go to some good schools, you end up working at the bigger companies. You know, by the time it gets to kind of the pool that we get to choose from, you know, it's it's it's thin. And then there's quotas on hiring, you know, foreigners or if you want to hire somebody to, you know, from
1:30 overseas to kind of be the boss to train people like we can't. And so that's been a struggle, but it is what it is. Like it's kind of like something you have to work around. But Hong Kong is is um I mean the economy is really slow. So there's not much is going on there. The stock market's booming this year, but uh but yeah, it's very different. Very different. Very different. Yeah. Yeah. Because it used to be more similar. Singapore, Hong Kong. I think they're compared, but you know, I think Hong Kong has always been I would say Hong Kong hasn't changed. It's always been a super fast society. Everybody's out like it's hustling. And Singapore wasn't. But Singapore is going up, but Hong Kong isn't moving. Hong Kong had the benefit of being like at the bottom of the funnel of S of China. You had to move
2:16 fast because you had all this money coming into the system. So it wasn't like Hong Kong was different from Singapore. Like Hong Kong had to be, you know, you got this all this stuff coming in from China, right? Yeah. I think if Singapore was where Hong Kong was, it would be like Hong Kong, right? Cuz you forced to kind of, you know, like like China in 10 years like became like unprecedented growth faster than like even the Roman Empire. and Hong Kong was there collecting all of that growth. I was working in Hong Kong for a very long time and I decided I need to come back to Singapore. Yeah. Why you decided? One, I don't speak Mandarin. So, my usefulness in Hong Kong, I speak Cantonese. You speak I speak Cantonese. Uh two, I um I had young kids and they go to the school I went to and I just needed a change of scenery. Uh, and my
3:03 wife is Singaporean and yeah, we wanted to come and kind of, you know, the quality of life here is like amazing and and so yeah, it's been good. Yeah. And you started your business already in Singapore. We started uh we started our business in 2019, my co-founder and I um and that business we identified the problem. I mean, I guess living overseas, you see some of the real estate investment opportunities, especially in the US, it's so cheap. the houses, you know, big houses, gr big green front yards, and they're so cheap. And we realized that one, people need to know about this opportunity, and two, being able to get a mortgage to invest in these properties. So, Robert and I,
3:49 uh, my co-founder, we created this company to address being able to get a mortgage to purchase investment property where you don't live, right? And primarily that's the US. And the second business that's been really busy lately is helping people who have a home and they need cash quickly for whatever reason. Usually it's because they need to make an investment somewhere and they banks aren't lending. So we we take the equity of the home and turn it into cash and they take that cash um and go invest it somewhere. So it's a it's basically called a home equity um loan. Yeah. And so we're in Singapore, we're super active, do really big loans. Um we've done several hundred million of Singapore real estate over the past year and a half. So it's been really good.
4:36 And our and that's we've provided a real solution for people who need you know this type of money quickly. Was it a difficult shift from a corporate to business? It was difficult. Yeah. You know, I think what was the most challenging part? So your ego um you know when you work at an investment bank everyone around you is hyper smart, super aggressive, all went to good schools and so the general wavelength is kind of the same. you're kind of fighting for, you know, it's all u and everybody is self motivated and but you realize you think your value to the world is significantly higher than it really is and you think you know things about
5:22 the world because you're smart and you work at investment bank and once you leave an investment bank you realize you know very little about the world and it's really really difficult M and you're an entrepreneur and I think if you read any entrepreneur book or watch entrepreneur videos they all say the same thing and it's 100% true. Anything that can possibly go wrong will go wrong. I can't even make some of this stuff up. like you know even things like sending documents on DHL that need to arrive on Monday and you send it on Thursday and then the bus breaks down and you know like I mean stuff like you can't you know and then then you obviously have to deal with you know human interactions but it is tough. It's
6:07 no joke. No joke. A starting business. But the positives are it's like sports. Like you suffer horrendous losses, but you pick yourself back up and you work harder and you improve and hopefully you're on a good team so you can fight your way up. And so that journey of emotional roller coaster, it's kind of cool, right? It wasn't cool at the time. You know, you're a little more flexible with your time. Like if I say I want to go take a two week vacation, I probably could. at any time, but I'd still be on my phone and working like there's but it's it's rewarding. But yeah, it's the biggest difference is the non-investment banking life is very difficult. Yeah. Yeah. It's tough. And you have all your perks when you're in investment banking,
6:54 all the bonuses. You know, you know, there's this famous um popular TV show called Industry from HBO. And there was a woman named Harper Stern. So, she was this uh uh African-American lady. And so my job was exactly her job and then eventually became her boss's job and so on and so forth. And watching that show gave me like honestly I almost like wanted to puke. It was so close to home like that intensity and I don't know that you could only do that when you're in your 30s like it was it was like intense. Yeah. Uh but when you leave the world and start try to start a normal business, you know, you don't really you haven't developed many skill sets to do that. You have skill sets trading and looking at Bloombergs and yelling at
7:40 people and buying nice suits and you know spending money, but once you go into the real world, it's it's super humbling. Was it your first business? No, I've had many failures. I started this Swiss sausage store in Hong Kong and it was this amazing Swiss bread. It's like the stuff you buy at Hubers, right? This it's exactly the stuff you buy at Hubers. This this this we baked this bun and then we got these amazing sausages from uh Germany and I rented this place underneath the stairs and I was just thinking people are going to pay $10 US for this authentic broughtwurst, right? And nobody came. I mean, somebody came, but it was
8:25 uh it was Yeah. Also humbling. But this one, the last one, the current one, you started when you were almost 50. I started it uh when I was 49 49 2019. Um and we actually went and raised money through uh an accelerator program in Korea. So, one of our investors are in Korea. We have a few investors, but it's the Y Combinator equivalent in Asia. So, we're in Korea, you know, we get, you know, there's two weeks crash course. We're in a room. Everybody's 20 years younger than me talking about NFTTS and doing this and doing this and we go around the room and I have to say what I'm doing and it's like mortgages and everybody's looking at me like, what's that? It's like, well, you have
9:12 to get a, you know, borrow money to buy a home and like, oh, what's a mortgage? you know, and I was clearly the eldest one. And then um you get up on stage and you talk to like thousands of people and it was a really really cool experience. The trouble is uh co hit right after um we raised the money. So the good thing is you know we're we're older you know we're we we have a strong sense of fiduciary like you know we're not going to go blow our investors money away. uh so we pivoted and just focus on cash flow and becoming profitable. So the downside is we may not have become a billion unicorn company but managing a business during co is was tough like it
9:59 was tough and we had hired a bunch of people and so we we had to make some decisions on how to lower cost so it was it was super honestly that journey I wouldn't I say that now but u I wouldn't change it. It was heart-wrenching but yet kind of rewarding. Yeah. So, you're running a business now in Singapore, but you you're also really into AI is like your thing, your topic. You wrote a paper on it. Why? Why? I'm a kind of a curious dude. I like learning. You know, I think AI everybody has a view and everybody is using it. You know, I read a statistic that there are 400 million users of chat GPT every week. M I mean it went from zero it's it's quite it's quite a lot. It's basically like 5% of
10:46 the total population. Yeah. Which is a lot. I mean it's not only early adopters already. It's like people using it on a daily basis. A lot of people. So it's been the fastest adoption of any product or service in the history of mankind. You know Siri and Alexa, right? We all have Apple phones. You go, "Hey Siri, what's the weather like?" you know, Alexa, something similar. Lock your iPhone. Oops. Alexa, Alexa, something similar. But these are great. They're not They're kind of not that useful. And two weeks ago, Alexa is now has embedded Clawude 3.7 AI in Alexa. So Alexa went from being not so smart to the smartest human being on the planet overnight. So if you
11:34 have Alexa, you can ask it anything. And so anybody who's asking that question is going to be have the smart answers throughout society. What's what's limited societies from growing is intelligence, right? So the rich nations are more intelligent than the poor nations because they have access to education and good teachers and all this type of stuff. But imagine a world where intelligence is free, which is kind of where we're heading. like there's no value in intelligence because it's all going to be embedded in our day-to-day electronics. You know, it'll be embedded in our soon it'll be embedded in our laptops. It's already embedded in some phones. So, that's that's an interesting
12:20 phenomenon, right? Um it's it's actually quite crazy. I discussed it with a friend of mine. He's like solid entrepreneur. He lives in Bangkok. And I tell him something about my daughter that about her school. And he's like, "Oh, I kind of don't believe that kids now need any basically information, any intelligence because it will be done by AI." And it's kind of the change the whole concept, the whole par paradigm of like how kids for example need to study. And as we just discussed, it's the changes are coming much faster than we can expect. So basically like my daughter is eight. So through the second grade let's say in 10 years in 5 years it will be different world in 10 years it will be like completely different
13:06 world. Yeah totally agree you know I I took a a Harvard business school online class 3 years ago. It was like $2,000 something like that. And it was great. There was like videos and very crude interaction with other cohorts in the class. So, you could kind of raise your hand, ask questions. Okay. Uh, but I thought to my but I never actually nothing was live. Like I didn't you didn't see a teacher live. It was all pre-recorded. And I thought to myself, why am I even paying for this? Like why can't you make this free to everybody? And I think that is the trend. You know, Harvard just announced free tuition for anybody who's making under a certain amount. But it's only a matter of time that, you know, you could see even with
13:52 AI, right? You've got Open AI raising billions of dollars and they're buying the most expensive Nvidia chips to create the best AI platform. And then Deep Seek comes out and uses basic Nvidia chips, not the fancy expensive ones, the basic ones. And they came out with an outcome pretty close, right? So spent a lot of money. It's like, you know, you get like the Rolls-Royce, but maybe I can buy a Toyota Camry and get kind of the same outcome. And the point being is that it's also open source. So, the point being is there is a fast trajectory to making this free for everybody and I think it's
14:38 only going to happen to education as well, right? And I think that's that's a bizarre concept, you know, to your point. I'll give you an example. So, I was just in uh KL just last weekend. So, I was in the airport and everybody is doing this. They're not watching English Premier League and just watching. They're Yeah. Right. So, so here's an interesting thought. I want to get your reaction. So, 20 years ago, the rich the people who had money could afford a phone, right? The fancy smartphones. Yeah. The big one. And then the if you didn't have any money, you still had to go to the pay phone, call your friends, but your your activity was you go outside, kick the ball, climb trees, you
15:23 know, be outdoors. But now it's kind of reversed that everybody has a phone. And actually the mass population are addicted to scrolling. And I think what's going to set the affluent people from the less affluent people is this being able to actually talk to somebody for an hour because the less affluent are now they don't need to talk to people. They're just, you know, on the bus. They're just they're just zombies scrolling TikTok, which I do too at sometimes. But ADHD is going to be 99% of the population and the 1% are people that can actually talk. Yeah. You know, think it's it's a bizarre bizarre world.
16:08 You know, I totally agree. I I think already you don't need to go to university to earn income for sure. I mean, if you want to be a doctor, lawyer, engineer, you still need to go to university. But university, it allows you to grow up, learn to make connections. Right now, do you need to pay, you know, $100,000 a year to do that or go away for school? I don't think so. I think you know you look at people who make money on YouTube you know only fans is a perfect example of it basically is I mean we all know what it is but how it derived is basically a person's an a human being's persona it can now be digitized which is what only
16:54 fans is you've digitized this person's whatever right and they can make money off of that and they make a lot of money Or you can be famous and create a memecoin like Haka Girl and use that. You've created a digital currency on you. Now there's a lot of scams and stuff like that, but the world is heading that way, right? Partly because of necessity because they can't afford to buy a home. They can't afford cost of living. So they're forced to go trade Bitcoin and try these different things. But you know I think you know we are going to move into a world where intelligence has no value. Think about that for a moment which is scary. It's exciting but it's also scary right because I don't think you're smart I'm
17:40 smart. Our viewers are smart and they can think about these things and do a little bit of planning but this is going to happen so fast. You know think about I was reading the news. It was it I think maybe a month ago, Facebook fired 5% of their workforce. Stock price was all-time high, record margins, record profits, and the stock market was record highs. That's never happened in the history of business. Usually, when you fire a bunch of people, you're doing bad. You need to cut costs. Yeah. So, you kind of think about that. This is like, you know, one of the AI tech leaders. It's telling you a story that they just don't need people. Like many adults, I used to worry about money. That is until I discovered being
18:29 a YouTuber. Welcome to my world. Honestly, it's the best job. You don't go to an office. You travel the world. You make a lot of money. Finish. Uh yeah. 5 minutes. Okay. Okay. Uh my stuff. Anyway, welcome to my glamorous life. [Music]
19:14 I used to film my videos just on a phone stuck on books. I was broke. Okay, not broke, but uh I was working for someone else, which I don't like. Anyway, I had no idea what I was doing. I treated YouTube like Google Drive, just dumping videos and hoping people would subscribe. I was lost. And look where I am now. Who are you? [Music] But the good news, I figured out how to start, grow, and make money on YouTube way faster. But YouTube is not just
20:01 about the money. It's about freedom. Freedom to be yourself, to do what you love, to have breakfast at 2 p.m. and call it content planning. I know, I know you want this life, too. You want to ask me how to get here, how to live life with passion and purpose without worrying about the future of you or your family. You want to ask me this, [Music] right? Ask. I've made a video lesson for you. I break down my five-step strategy that helped me quit my 9-to-five job and start making real money on YouTube. I've put everything in there. the wins, the mistakes, and the embarrassing stuff as well. Anyway, this lesson will help you
20:47 skip the get results faster, and build $10,000 monthly income from YouTube. [Music] [Music] link in description. Grab the lesson if it's still available. [Music] You know, before if you look at economies, let's say the US and the US
21:32 was headed to recession or they needed some stimulus, the Fed would reduce rates and it would make it easier for companies to borrow money to grow. So when you borrow money to grow, what do you do? You hire more people so they can do more jobs, right? More sales, more more manufacturing. But in the new world, the company makes more money. They're not hiring more people. They're going to hire more Nvidia chips, more GPUs to do more processing. It's a it's you know in a in a bizarre world and this is a little bit of a leap. This is happening really fast but there are like two sides of the coin. So if you don't need a helper then your helper need to go back to Philippines or Indonesia and then so it need to match with the this abundance thing that you just mentioned
22:18 and the people losing jobs. need to be matched these two things. Yes, good point. So, one of the problems with a protective society, like a socialist society, is that it protects workers, they say if you if you behave a certain way, we'll make sure you're okay. Just recently, I want to say within a month ago, the port workers union in the US, so these are people who go and offload cargo from boats on shore. Yeah. and they agreed on a contract of $65 an hour. So that's $200,000 a year to take goods off of a boat onto the shore. So this is great. It's protecting this group of people. So that's good. But what's not good about that is that
23:05 eventually whether it's 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, you won't need those people cuz it will be robots doing that. So what you've done is you've created you've not given them the opportunity to learn other things. You know, one of the problems that, you know, that we're seeing right now, uh, with the tariffs, and I I I'm a little close to this because I did some research on this a long time ago, but, you know, it started with the general, uh, agreement for trade and tariffs, uh, and then it was the WTO. And so, the thinking with all these smart people, it started in the 70s where these two famous economists, Hayek and Freriedman, said, um, we have to have free markets. when there's free uh uh market economies, people are more affluent and companies main focus has to
23:53 be on profits, right? And he wrote all these economic papers. It was the Austrian school of economics and most people in finance in the '90s and 2000s like myself were really free markets, free markets. But what we didn't appreciate and actually the first company that could actually implement all this stuff was General Electric. So here was a company Jack Welch. He was like super famous and he was like, I'm just going to make the most amount. My main goal in life was making profit for shareholders, right? Screw anything else. Didn't matter. He outsourced things and all that kind of stuff. And that led to a trend. In 2001, China got most favored uh nation status in the WTO and overnight 5,000 factory workers lost their job. It all went to China, right?
24:39 Uh and other countries, but mainly China. And so what that happened was all those workers, all that wealth created from production moved to China. And that's what the contention is now. You know, the the folks that are constructing Trump's trade plan, you know, their view is that there's no if you want to be a successful nation in the history of mankind, whether it's the Roman Empire, whether it was the industrial revolution, you have to make things, right? When you make things, communities are heavy are happier. There's better bonding. There are more harmonious society. When a society is just about buying things, there's an existential unhappiness, right? Because the rich people can buy more things and the poor people can't.
25:27 And so what they're trying to do is, you know, move some of that production back to the US, right? And some of it is geopolitical. There's some sensitive things that the US doesn't want China making and I'm sure every country is going through the same thing. But the point being is when those factory workers lost their jobs, they didn't have the tools to recalibrate either. You know, Uber gave a lot of opportunities for people to make money by driving a car, but there just wasn't enough labor outlets to learn a new skill set. Right? if you can't make cars cuz cars are m being made in Europe. What are you going to do? So to your point right now that's the big hurdle like when people you're not going to need lawyers, you're not going to need
26:12 doctors, a lot of doctors probably um education's going to be commoditized. So these this labor force has got to learn to do something else, right? And now there's more things to do. You know, you can there's more outlets to make money if money is something that's going to be relevant. But yeah, I think it's a it's a kind of a big problem especially, you know, I give you an example. You know, the first jobs that will be displaced, ironically, in this new AI age are computer programmers. Mhm. Right. So Claude, so one of the big AI companies called Anthropic, they have Claw 3.7, but they've launched something recently, I think in December, called Claude Code. So it's an AI embedded in your computer
26:58 that actually codes things lifetime and it learns. So you think about the programming demographic in say India or in those countries, what are they going to do, right? Or you think about the outsourcing companies in the Philippines. So when you call Apple because you can't get certain functions to work or you're at HSBC and you can't log into your dashboard, it's all outsource and pretty and that 100% by the end of the year you're going to be talking to an AI AI interface which year this year already, you know, already. So we're doing this internally right now is we're uploading everything that we've ever written as a company. Okay.
27:44 Uh, and the AI can scrape everything off of our internal teams, uh, Microsoft Outlook teams. Yeah. And we can put a face on it. And so when you call me and ask me about certain aspects of the loan, how does it work, how do I close, how do I sign the documents, it'll answer it with my face. Mhm. Because it's program because I have all the answers. Cuz 99.9% of any question that's ever answered Yeah. Right there. They're already there. Yeah. Yeah. Think about that. That's you know this tool VP AI v a pi. So it's a voice AI agent. Yeah. The my friend just just showed to me a couple days ago. It can work as the same as
28:30 your sales department basically. If you feed enough information to them and support. Yeah. Support is gone more or less. It will be gone for sure. The technical support any like this question from customers. Sales as well. They actually did this experiment these guys uh with like few companies. So basically every company you have the list of like dead clients dead meaning you have email or you have phone number but either they said no and then you never follow up or they they never responded something like that. So it's sometimes it can be like 10,000 people that can potentially lead potentially your customers but you never close the deal with them. So they used this tool and basically they made a calls to this 10,000 people and they closed like 30% of something of this
29:15 10,000 people and then they actually did this um review and half of the people they never understood that was AI calling them. Crazy. It's man I'm telling you it's happening. It's happening a lot faster than I think people um understand. And so it's up to governments to say, "Hey guys, if you're doing these jobs, why don't you learn some other tools?" You know, I've already asked my kids to start getting comfortable with chat GPT voice. So you can just ask it questions. Hey, how do I s shoot a jump shot? How do I um kick the ball in the upper right corner when I'm playing football? you know and it'll say oh you know plant your left foot
30:01 here and focus on like nice so they get used to it how old are you kids the 14 and 11 what skills will be needed I mean would you recommend your kids especially 11 year old one to go to the uni to the university after school okay I I will say I'll answer it a different way so I will say when I went to university I had no choice right so if my kids say you know there's a there's an ego part of this, right? You want your kids to go to the school that you went to and all that stuff, but it's not important. If they said, "I don't want to go to school." Who am I to say no? Of course, I'd love them to stay at home with me, but you know, I think it's important to give them to your point about your daughter and YouTube is we have to start getting
30:47 them comfortable with earning money in different manners because maybe money might not be relevant later or there's different technologies, but going through that skill of that habit of being flexible in learning different things is really important. But yeah, I don't think 100% you don't need to go to school right now. you need. Imagine your your son or daughter says, "Yeah, I want to go to Harvard or whatever school it is, you know, and it's $100,000 a year, and I want to study English literature." I'm like, "Uh, why don't you just go watch YouTube right now?" There's value on meeting friends and network, but I think skills like selling is going to be important. Like if I have to sell a big contract to another company, I think that human I think that's still going to be around for big contracts for small
31:35 sales. I think I think sales is still going to be, you know, important. I think sales agents can can sell you stuff. I mean AI agents can like and I think and I and I don't mean like insurance, right? That that can be replaced. That can be replaced. But I mean, if I'm a a blade manufacturer and I want to sell to Boeing so they can put in their 787 Dreamlininers, I think those type of jobs that human human kind of relationship requirement is still going to be necessary. The thing about universities, if you go to Harvard, you obtain this network and this can be significant for your future life. That's your resource. So basically, how this can be replaced? can be but I don't
32:22 think it is that important anymore. It is important but I think it's less important. It's becoming less important as well. You know why you know a lot of people. Did you go to Harvard? No but I still like I know a lot of people because I figure out how to meet these high level people. But you need so you need to figure out you need something. I didn't go to Harvard. I know a lot of people. Yeah. Through your banking career maybe also. Yeah. So I think I think it it certainly having that pedigree has helped because you get validity and it helps you get into the room to have meetings, right? But I'm not sure that's as relevant in the future honestly. Um I think that kind of
33:08 stuff is but you know the schools have to retool as well. I guarantee you they're thinking about this as well. And I think you know there's going to be a lot more free classes being given out. You didn't need to go to college to earn income. Wasn't that long ago '7s '8s you didn't need to. It was you made income. you there was a big vocational industry like you didn't need to go to college and then it became you needed to go to college and then everybody you know kids entered into tons of college debt and they couldn't get a job and you know I've accepted that you know the kids my kids may not go to college how to make money right now using all new features AI that you have right now if you are in your 20s I personally and I think my
33:54 friends suffer you from two things. One, we've been very kind of lucky in life and you know we you know we live in Singapore. We can hire helpers and you know kids go to good schools. So there hasn't there's not a need to say hey you got to got to figure some stuff out because you're going into high school soon. Before the old game was you got to do all these things so you can get into a good school. Yeah. Right. You got to go start a charity. You've got to play the violin. you've got computer programs so you can get into Harvard. When you're in Harvard, you have to study be a doctor and then you get a job. That's not the case anymore. I'm just starting now to think about this is that how you make money is going to be very different, right? Will YouTuber be around in 5
34:40 years? Maybe, maybe not. It could be something else. YouTube for sure. For sure. Right. But you never know. YouTube is very big. So, and kind of I bet on YouTube. Yeah. So, it could be something else. It could be but it's not about the platform right it's about it's not a view on what's going to be around is is in 10 years what needs to be understood is your ability to be flexible the lens at which you view the world has to be wide and you have to be comfortable first you have to have some commercial aspects to it so you need to learn what money is and how to make it but you know you ask any of these any high Anybody in college right now, you ask them anything about crypto, they know how to create
35:25 metamax and open accounts and, you know, Bitcoin mining and they know how to, you know, I mean, they're they're comfortable in this world, right? So, what I would say right now is get really comfortable using AI. You don't need to know how to code it or the math cuz it's irrelevant cuz it learns on its own. But how do you use that intelligence to be creative in life? Now it could mean making money, but I also think that the concept of how we make money is going to be very different. Like I mean is money going to be even around in 10 years, right? So I think the the big the thing right now is most of my friends are still on the go to a good school, become
36:11 a doctor, become a lawyer, and everything will be taken care of. And I think within a few years that might not be even relevant. So the f the faster you can get comfortable using AI and using it to be creative and making money, you know, I really like what you posted about, you know, sharing with your daughter cuz it's not about making money off YouTube. It's about going through the process of doing something and earning income, right? Because that skill set can be translated to other things. you know, there'll be AI platforms that are going to be selling viewership. You know, maybe it'll, you know, YouTube or Spotify will be merged onto Chachib, right? And then it'll all be one platform. But the key is really
36:56 just to be very open-minded and how to use AI to help you, right? Not about getting into college or, you know, and that that is really the message. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I think the old routine of valuing I mean this is sounds just absolutely bizarre me saying this is that if we're in a world where education and intelligence have very little value, the value you bring is what we're doing now, right? You use AI to help you create, but it's really this human experience can never be replicated for now. For the next No, I mean that at the end of the day, good or bad, the experience, this vibe, this
37:41 energy that you and I have sitting in a room can't be replicated. Now, we could have humanoids talking to each other, but that human feeling, you know, can't be replicated. But for sure, you got to get comfortable using this this technology. Yeah. What I see actually young people are super comfortable to try new things. Yeah. Like even I see I'm 40 so I had a friend he helped me to quote some like solution for our company for our sales department like a couple days ago and he's 30 so he use more tools than I do. So he tried different websites and also like okay this doesn't work just remove this. And even me like I think I'm quite open but even me I still have this fear to be uncomfortable
38:26 when I try some new app or some new solution or some new website and for my daughter she's seven almost eight she doesn't have any fear installed in her like to try anything so what how the value can be created maybe uh within the next like 5 10 years through actually mental changes and psychological changes. So someone need to help the society the majority of people to make the switch and to be flexible to become more flexible. So probably this thing will be like will be a huge market you know just to your point you know you think about all of our kids right what game do they play they play Roblox right what is that that is a digital world yeah open universe there's a digital world where they have friends or they
39:14 they go with their friends as an avatar into this digital world building things going on journeys and swimming and going shopping so their brain already is used to being in a digital world, earning digital currency that I pay for. But you remember when we first watched Avatar, a James Cameron movie, where he goes into this pod, clicks on, and then he goes into a different world as a as an avatar. I mean, this is this is kind of the that's happening. But I think governments I don't know if anybody's thinking about this but you know the government's role in society is really to help balance the relationship between labor and capital which is making money
40:00 and you know and and working right and so when the labor costs zero Yeah. Exactly. And there is no capital. Exactly. Exactly. So it's it's mindboggling. I'll give you an example like you know the what's happening is you know this AI is is is matched with with energy right so what do you mean so the the the ability to scale AI has to do with energy cuz it's compute it's all that kind of stuff and fossil fuels are still the cheapest like oil is not going away but for sure the mega trend is going to be renewables it has to be right because and what's going to happen is they'll figure out a way to extract
40:45 the sun's energy whatever in a cost-effective way like if you look at the cost of solar is like super low and so I think what will happen I think Elon Musk talks about this you know companies already now are creating their own small nuclear power plants on their facility so what's to say in 10 years every house doesn't have like a mini nuclear power plant there's no need for using the country this the country's electricity grid because it's it's going to be self- serving because it'll be so cheap or it'll be like district 9 in Bookatima we all have our own power sources and then when I need some I borrow yours and when you need some so it's definitely going to be a distributed energy grid type situation but in a community base you
41:32 could see it's already happening you know China wanted to get to 1200 gawatt of solar energy by 2030 cuz they they they know what we're talking about. Like the only way is to have electricity at a more community level and they're already they've already reached that. They're already moving towards disintermediated, you know, world of energy production, right? Because it can't it's just inefficient. You know, the government kind of controls all of this stuff. Yeah. You know, I think it' be interesting to see what what uh what how governments react to this, but their job is to, you know, my view of government is fairly simple. Like they they've got to like you got to make a a harmonious society where the it's a level playing field. Singapore does a really good job of that. I think we've
42:18 spoke about this before. We'll give you HDB housing. We'll make food relatively inexpensive. And if you want to work harder, you can get private housing and own a car and things like that. But, you know, if you look at things like in the US, you've got one dude worth $500 billion, like something's not working, right? That'll be interesting how it's going to take care of its population. Think about, you know, in the in the in the those cowboy movies, right? Everybody had a horse, right? You know, you go to the store, you ride a horse. You go go to battle, you ride a horse. I think humans are going to be like the horses of the past. It's like not necessary, right? you know like human as terms of labor and you know I read this statistic this has just blew my mind away so December
43:04 last year so in AIS you have LLMs which is kind of like the chat GPTs they answer questions and stuff like that and those require humans to actually label it and stuff like that um and then you have reasoning models which are more sophisticated they need different chips and you ask it more complicated questions and it tells you how they it shows you how they thought about it Right. So those are used for things like cyber security. You know, it'll be used to cure cancer and that uses a lot of physics and math and logical reasoning, all that kind of stuff. December, Open AI's 3.0 reasoning model achieved 25% level of frontier math. I mean, this is like PhD level math, like just the
43:50 smartest people in the world. 6 months before that, Yeah. that was at 3%. 6 months later 25%. And if you look at Moore's law, Metcaf's law, Reed's law, they all say the same thing. Like things double every 2 years and but it grows exponentially. My point being is at some point this year or maybe next year, humans will not be the smartest people on this planet. Yeah. The smartest creatures. Smartest creatures. So, you know, you look at Claude and all these AIs, the IQ is about 150 right now. 150 160 it was probably 60 70 80 last year so next year it'll be 300 I don't know what use does a 300 IQ person have on the planet but imagine a world where
44:37 we're not the smartest how does society work when intelligence is just abundant so how you apply it on the level of countries what countries do you think will be doing good what countries will be doing not so good what is a country right a country is you know we all hold a passport and we belong to a It's a contract. Yeah, it's we we belong to we have we we have a contract. We belong to a club, right? And a club has some benefits like I have some passports like if you if you belong to the Singapore club, you have a Singapore passport and there's a contract that you know if you do certain things, you know, we'll take care of you and you pay some taxes and I have some friends around the world. So when you want to go visit them, we make it easy for you to travel. But in a
45:22 world there's some big you know superpowers that have historical plans um you know China, Russia, Rome, Germany, US, Japan those I guess the ones I can think of right um and they all kind of at one period of time you know were a global superpower and they're still you know China thinks this certain part you know in In the Middle East, it's more religious based. But what if that wasn't an issue? Like what if the need to be where they were before was not an issue anymore and everybody was harmonious? And that's sort of what I think like I think places like China have an advantage because
46:09 they have there's it's just easy to execute technology because there's no if you think about a company it's basically manufactured bureaucracy right what is an AI agent what is chachi PT like you could have max churnov AI and that basically is a company that has no employees right so having things that are valuable like natural resources are still going to be valuable, but you know in in a world where intellectual capital is not valued. I think that's bizarre. I don't know what the role of being a citizen is. You think about that, right? What's the difference between a US citizen and a Chinese citizen or a German citizen? Germans, you know, they're part of this EU club, right? And
46:57 then you know they they try to raise different types of taxes so they can you know take some money to take care of it. But if everybody started moving in the same direction like I don't know maybe everybody just becomes harmonious hopefully but I don't know the answer. Yeah, the thing is AI can remove potentially the legal part of it like being a citizen of a country like the borders, the passport, this kind of stuff, but to improve the relationships between like Palestine and Israel. I'm going to say something that is going to be so controversial that I can't wait to watch the hear the comments. Right. So imagine a world where AI gets to 100% of frontier maths like any math that has
47:45 ever been thought of any problems it's solved. So then it thinks about the current maths and physics as we know it is based on our dimension which we assume I mean I don't want to sound like I've lost my mind but imagine we've all watched these movies where there's could be different dimensions and stuff and it starts using math to prove out wait maybe God doesn't exist maybe it can all be proven mathematically oh god exists or god exists yeah but will it help if it's proven but But one way or another, imagine a world where they use indisputable math to prove something that has to do with religion exists or doesn't exist. Because India's got 2,000
48:30 gods. Middle East believes in a certain, you know, certain thing. The Christian, you have the Christians, you have Catholics. How do societies react to that when there's indisputable math? Right? So that's no they will refuse to believe. I mean people are so subjective and so biased. I mean they're so subject but it it's never been mathematically proven right. all been okay there's like the big bang you know evolution but that also is there's always like well who was the creator right I believe in God but I could also see it hasn't actually been mathematically proven right so who knows I don't just think that conversation right or wrong I don't think the world's ready for and I think that conversation is going to be happening like you you
49:17 saw how the world reacted when they cloned Dolly the sheep right oh you know this is you know you're you're acting like God and well it's you know it's evolution of science and stuff like that but there's nothing that we haven't been smart enough actually to prove it and now so the thing is the government will try to regulate it and control it and then the thing is how this regulation will be yeah the world will even now there's going to be two big camps people who accelerate into the technology and use it and love it and you know absorb it and the other camp which was no I don't want to this is not right so it'll be
50:05 accelerators and decelerators but it's it goes back to like you know agreeing to minimum wages for these poor workers at some point the world will be as the world will be you know because if you don't you just are not as affluent and and stuff like that I don't I don't I don't know the answer. You know, you you have conversations with smart tech people. You know, you know, I read a little bit and I try to use these technologies, but it's you know, we're lucky cuz we can see it, feel it, you know, and use it and it's like like this is some serious man. 100% countries like Switzerland, Dubai, Singapore, Hong Kong, actually all major cities, it's built on services, right?
50:52 good restaurants to attract um you know a financial system so you have bankers and capital markets. you have a strong monetary authority so rich people are feel comfortable custodizing their assets there but all of that stuff will not require a human interface right so how do places like Dubai Singapore adjust now Singapore is pretty smart I I'm sure they've got some smart people that are much better experts at what we're talking about than you and I and they have the ability to execute much better than other countries. I personally think that we and I think Elon Musk has said this as well. I can't see how we're not in a world where
51:37 there's universal income. I just cannot see how that doesn't happen. You know, the concept of GDP was created like after the Great Depression, this dude named Kousznet in 1939, I think, and it was they needed a way to to figure out how much countries were were worth and making cuz everybody was actually producing stuff. But it doesn't it doesn't take into account efficiency or productivity or welfare. So real GDP could be a lot higher because of all this stuff, right? So I just think we could be in a world where everybody gets a certain income but they don't really they don't really have to work because I don't think human jobs are going to be necessary in places like Hong Kong, Dubai or Singapore. You know this this
52:24 service now whether or not they let it happen but I think Dubai and Singapore are actually such forward thinking that you know it probably could happen here. A lot of the technologists like even Mark Andre and stuff like they say that whenever there was a new technology actually more jobs are created to service those new technologies but I think this is the one that doesn't apply to that that rule that'll be interesting I think really the role of governments and how they manage societies you know there's already this I mean Singapore is different but I definitely in the US and a lot of Europe people just don't trust the government right they don't think that the government's been in their best acted in their best interest. So, you know, I want to take the money out of the banking system and putting it on blockchain and Bitcoin. You know, I want
53:09 to, you know, do things that don't rely on government to take care of me. And I think it'll start being community based tokens and community- based societies. It has community based energy. And it could be as simple as Bukatima is one community or is one community. It also has to do with a consumer's preference to use AI because before there was like ah you know you still need to call the hotline because you need to still need to speak to somebody to figure out how to transfer money right but people got used to using the online interface cuz AI doesn't make mistakes right it doesn't get a money wire wrong right like it doesn't make it doesn't make mistakes now the answers
53:55 you ask may not be the right answers but executing things like you know it's like a calculator doesn't make mistake if you two multiply two so I think as once the you know as a consumer you think like well if I speak to this person it'll have all the answers for me and do it for me right we'll have aentic AIS in our phones it'll say go wire this amount of money to this account like it's going to get done in a secure manner I don't have to like think about it you know so so you think the countries with where the people trust the government with the high level of trust plus with the the countries can that can do like implementation of new things faster they
54:40 probably will win meaning it's like Singapore UAE China this type of definitely Singapore for sure I don't think I can't even think of an a country where there is more trust of a government than Singapore and rightly so like it's executed right it's created you abundance in in one lifetime. You know, I don't think South Korea after the war was the third poorest country in the world. And this is like not that long ago, like in the late 50s, I think 50s anyhow, mid-50s, it was, you know, per capita income of just a few thousand bucks. And now it's one of the richest countries in the world along with so I think Singapore, South Korea, like these guys have, especially Singapore, like there's a there's a real trust cuz they've done it. They they've thought generationally. But yeah, it's a good
55:26 point. I think you're right. You mentioned that potentially there will be no money, no capital. Can you elaborate on this? If you think about the history of money and the banking system, banks were created as a means to create credit in an economy to borrow money to buy goods and services. Before it was barter like I've got a bag of rice, I want your cow. I give you the bag of rice. You give me the cow. Uh but then you know then they you know they needed to create a way well I've got all this rice where do I store it right I'm going to store it in a warehouse and I'm going to well how do I charge you for storing my warehouse? Well you're going to have to pay me some interest in the form of rice. So you have money is used for an exchange of goods and services right so that's typically what what that is for.
56:14 Yeah. So you think about robo advisors, you've got endowas, you've got arta, you've got whoever stash away, right? And so what these guys are doing is they are using technology to create returns from markets, right? And so that is a function of you buy more computers, you're going to get a better outcome because at some point, right? But if you think about that, what makes investing in the stock market unique is that there's some fund manager that goes and meets a 100 companies and says, "Oh, this is a good product. It makes a good phone. It's called Apple. I like it. Has good earnings, good cash flow, and I buy it and put it in my portfolio." Yeah. But that is a subjective experience. If
56:59 the share prices are now not dictated by somebody Warren Buffett going, "Oh, I like Coca-Cola or I like Seas Candy." Now it's just a machine trading that then eliminates what we call price discovery, the creating the picking the good companies and the bad companies. And if that's the case, I'm not sure at some at some point like I don't think you can make money. Like I don't think actually I mean this is just so weird for me to say this. If you look at how how capital is formed, you know, you have a company, then you go list on and get an IPO and then you get shareholders and then those that you know that goes into pension funds or you know or your CPF. I think you know you look at
57:46 memecoins now people can create capital from themselves without the banking system. If you wanted to create max churnoff coin and offer it, here's a business idea and offer it on your channel, right? You could probably make money and that didn't even touch the banking system because it was on the blockchain. Yeah, the money is a belief of people. So if they believe me so I can create the um but it's more than exception right now like it's more like an exception and still like I get your point on like you don't need to create capital if the capital is kind of not worth anything and it wasn't that long ago that the world had was traded off gold. It wasn't that long ago. It went off the gold standard called Breton
58:31 words and the US became the reserve currency and then you know we are where we are. But it's certainly this why Bitcoin is is doing what it's doing. It's it's an off the banking system store of value. Now could AI create another Bitcoin? Probably. AI Bitcoin is just an algorithm and an agreement and some minors, right? But it works, right? So in the new world, you'll need something with scarcity value, right? And Bitcoin is that at the moment and that's kind of why it's doing well, right? Yeah. So the role of money, I mean, this is I mean there's some uh some Hey, Sebie, say hi. Hey, buddy. Uh but you, you know, this is a big problem,
59:18 right? You've got Jamie, you've got big banks and big institutions and the Fed. you know, the Fed's job is price stability and employment. Half of that is going to be zero. Like, this stuff is going to happen really fast. Uh, so to answer your question, I think ultimately money as we know, it's not going to be around, but there's just too big. It's such an incumbent entrenched way of doing things that it's going to be it's going to be a while. I think you can slowly see it's moving towards blockchain technologies and pretty soon we're already slowly transacting on you know onchain already right uh and the governments don't like that cuz they think you're laundering money or things like that I'm sure there's some of that but it's inevitable if you apply what
1:00:05 you think now and like what you know about AI if you apply it to um content creation like my area YouTube content creation what would be your like ideas or your thoughts how I for example how I can implement you know I give an example so I'm not going to I'm not going to give you too much of an idea but I was I was thinking about creating a product right something relating to sports and I actually I used the voice prompt on chatbt I was like hey what do you think of this idea you know I want to do this and you know it helps people when they do this and it gives me and I'm just having this conver it's like a business consultant and I got so many ideas from it So, you know, part of what you do and content in general, it's like surfing, right? Everybody knows how to surf, but
1:00:51 it's being able to catch the right wave, right? And the right wave is what people are interested in hearing. So, right now, everyone's talking about Trump and tariffs and AI. Last year, everybody talked about Bitcoin. The year before, everything was talking about DeFi and altcoins. Might be something next year, right? But you can use AI probably to preempt or maybe have a better understanding of what people want to hear. I mean, I don't know. You can call ask the three a three or four AI platforms and you could probably ask if I wanted to do a YouTube on a topic that people want to hear, what would that be? I'm actually sure they would give you a pretty good answer. Let's say, will I be replaced with my format, with my show?
1:01:38 Will I be replaced by AI or partially replaced? There are some things already happening where AI is already creating Twitter accounts and posting content. Um, but I don't think so cuz you need Well, okay, let me let me answer that. There could be a world if you instruct the agentic AI to create if you give it an instruction to do it, it could do it. But at the end of the day, stop, Kobe. Stop. No, not this one. At the end of the day, you need because your channel is about human connections, right? And you're good at it and you need that person at the top to say, "This is a
1:02:24 good idea. Let's, you know, let's talk about this story." any other ideas that's regarding AI that I could implement into my business, into my YouTube channel? I would just use it more and just ask it questions. You'd be shocked. Like you could even say things like, you know, so I like to watch uh Lex Friedman and these are super long videos, but he's like gets really deep. Yeah. Um there's another one called Richard Carlin, you know, I think it's called super long history of the world. Yeah. And but you could even say, you know, which American YouTube channel can be replicated in Asia or I mean you can
1:03:09 just ask it questions. It's so smart now. Yeah. Yeah. That's what we do actually. Yeah. We ask a lot of questions and chap can strategize with you high level basically. Yeah. You know this the the prompt that I that I used recently. If you have for example ch you can switch on the memory you can put this uh tick so it remembers everything that you talk with him about obvious. So basically you can ask okay based on what you know about me what's my areas of development how would you recommend me to like grow my skill or my company or my business like with the next like 10 years and it's actually give you and explain me to to me. It actually give you a lot of insights about yourself and
1:03:57 it like propose you area of growth for you and how you how did it how did it what was the data set that it used to know you is it from your from my all my prompts all my interaction with charge I see so I start using it like maybe year and a half ago okay and I probably tick this box with the memory like maybe a year ago it's only I think on the paid version and so basically it knows me super well. For example, Chad GPT said based on our interaction with you, you don't like you know, fluffy answers. So you you like to make it more concise and it's true like that's that's my way. And then basic it knows about my business because I use it a lot for my business. So basically it kind of give me the ideas how to strategically how to
1:04:43 like build my business because it it knows my business already. What's your thought on Deep Seek? you know, it's not as polished. Um, but they they managed to get a very good outcome using very standard Nvidia A100 chips that are like, you know, 8,000 bucks a pop. Open AI is using H100. They're like $40,000 each. They're going for like the Rolls-Royce effect. But, you know what? Deep, you know what? What what what happens is you have this data. It's kind of like you've got Burger King, McDonald's, and Wendy's. They all come out making the same burger, but they all try to make the best burger they can, the fastest and the cheapest. But McDonald's might use put the lettuce
1:05:28 first and then the mayonnaise and then the ketchup. And then Wendy's might put the pickle first and then the cheese. Yeah. But what Deep Seek has done has eliminated some process of the training, certain process of the training. They said, "We actually don't need that. Let's just try it without it." And they got pretty close and it's open source. So it's kind of like BYD. They're just making it so cheap, which is great for the consumer, right? And they're just making the cost of the stuff. If the cost of energy is slowly moving towards zero, then I guess it's not a problem. So it's like this abundant world of intelligence at all of our fingertips. Yeah. Cool. What shifts in the society you would see with all the new AI
1:06:15 technologies implemented? how the societies will function differently maybe can come up with the example you know I think we you know we all belong to clubs right uh you know I have a tennis club they're on WhatsApp you know I have u you know uh parents of my kids one kid's grade there's a little club and we're comfortable acting within that little community you know we share things and ideas and I think that previously the clubs were religion, right? That that's the dominating kind of club that you belong to, right? In fact, it was even more powerful than governments uh in some parts of Europe. Yeah. Um and actually, it's been around before governments. So, I think it it
1:07:03 just feels like in my gut like we're going to be moving towards community-based societies and it'll be self governed. You heard me say this earlier about ants like you know ants there's like trillions of them and they kind of figure out how to operate within you know everything moves so you know it's a bad example but um cuz they're not humans or mammals but I think we just kind of figure it out you know right now what what limits the problems are a lot of like income disparities you know poor people they need to go rob banks or do bad things but if if the world has is abundant And if everybody has the same amount of intelligence and energy doesn't cost
1:07:48 anything, you know, maybe we just end up in a utopian world where we just kind of belong to our little club of societies. We share energy, share money, you know, and the government's just on top just kind of making sure things operate. Yeah. I know it sounds it sounds like a we're in a sci-fi movie, but if you took a sheet of paper and you start putting dots of news, things you read and AI and things you experience and you could see that it's like going a certain way. Yeah. Speaking of Singapore, you are positive that Singapore will figure it out. Yeah. I think they're just their ability to figure it out is the best in the world, right? They think, you know, when China entered the WTO, they called Singapore to say, "Hey,
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