Get ALL the Benefits of Fasting Without Starving | Dr. Chris Rhodes

0:00 so is it very similar eating with a supplement and pure fasting produce about the same results I would say that they're about 30 to 40% different depending on the marker so pure fasting is definitely going to be better for you for those Pacific markers but again that's a 36-hour fast that we were comparing it to versus eating normally and taking a supplement hello welcome back to the Dr Joy K podcast I invite some of the best scientists and doctors and Pioneers in the Health and Longevity field to make your life better and longer so today I have the pleasure of interviewing Dr Chris rhs so Dr rhods thank you so much for being here yeah absolutely Joy thanks so much for having

0:45 me I'm really excited yeah so you're doing some groundbreaking work and I'm excited to share with my audience let me just introduce you briefly so you actually received your PhD in nutritional biochemistry from UC Davis and you have spent your research career unraveling the Mysteries behind intermittent fasting and his incredible ability to optimize health and extend lifespan so I want you to share uh first of all um with the audience like how did you get so interested in intermittent fasting what do you think it uh you know what what about it inspired you absolutely so intermittent fasting was really interesting to me um I got my BS in Biochemistry from Le Mar Mount University down in LA but once I got out of college you know like a lot of

1:32 college kids I didn't really know what I wanted to do with that that degree so I took a two-year Immunology fellowship at Stanford just kind of started pouring through all the research I could get my hands on and eventually you know came across healthy aging and Longevity research which I thought was so interesting because it used to be you know this mythological thing right ponon in the fountain of youth but is now this very active very rigorous area of Science and when you're in that space eventually you come across because fasting is one of the only ways that we know of right now that reliably extends lifespan in model organisms and then you know going a level deeper than that it's also been shown to help treat prevent or

2:17 delay most major diseases so it's kind of like this one thing that does everything and what really fascinated me about it was that it does all of that without actually adding anything into the system right so it's not like this superfood or this wonder drug that you're taking and it's activating these special Pathways but somehow fasting itself is activating this dormant you know longevity bio program that we all already have inside of us but just isn't ordinarily turned on and when that clicked for me it actually made me really mad well because I was like great so my body knows how to live to be 120 years old and in perfect color but it's just not doing it so that's that's the

3:04 emotional catapult that really me like how can I I need to uncover what's happening during a fast what's going on in the body and is there a way that we can recreate it so we can get these benefits but you know without having to do this arduous lifelong fasting kind of uh approach okay so first of all what do you think qualifies intermittent fasting like what what how many hours do person need to fast to to be called intermittent fasting yeah what a great question so this is a big problem in the fasting research field as a whole is that there's so many different definitions of intermittent fasting and you can see when you dive into the literature that there are certain lengths of fasting that you know we call intermittent fasting but really don't offer much additional benefit

3:50 Beyond caloric restriction right so biologically biochemically speaking in order to really enter into fasting metabolism you have to go for about 20 to 24 hours without food and that's just to kind of you know start entering into true fasting metabolism and that's because uh it takes around 20 to 24 hours for your body to deplete its glycogen stores so all the stored carbohydrates in your body so up until that point your body is going to be preferentially breaking down glycogen is going to be using glucose staying in that carbohydrate metabolism postprandial metabolism kind of um kind of Zone and then after that you're going to have this metabolic switch from carbohydrate metabolism to

4:36 lipid metabolism and Ketone production so you're saying the popular 168 style the 16 hours versus you know eight hours of eating uh is that not not going to produce enough benefit or I mean is it still quite beneficial what are your thoughts so it's it's a mixed bag when you look at the actual literature for 168 fasting typically it's not enough to produce any kind of uh additional benefit beyond what you would get from normal chloric restriction there's some benefits that you can get to metabolic States like helping to control glucose levels or helping to you know normalize lipids or cholesterol levels but these longer term benefits that people typically associate with fasting like immune cell regulation

5:23 or autophagy or these lifespan extending effects they're not going to be achieved until you at least get past that 20 to 24hour Mark I see okay so what about prolonged fasting there are also people who are doing very long fast week long or even longer what are your thoughts on that right so prolonged fasting in the sense of like multi-day fasting those are those are those are some where you can you'll definitely get into these later stage benefits of fasting you'll definitely be activating autophagy you'll definitely have some immun cell reset right about 72 hours of fasting is where you kind of see this the immune system quote unquote go to ground right so it'll really knock down a lot of

6:10 unnecessary or extraneous like autoreactive cells and kind of go back to the Baseline regenerate from the stem cells which can be really really helpful for people who have autoimmune disorders so there's a there's a clinic out in Santa Rosa that does prolonged fasting like that people will come in they'll do a weekl long fast a two week fast in a medically supervised environment which is you know if you're going to do a two week fast that's where that's where you should do it you should be supervised um but you know people will come in and they'll get symptom oblation for you know six months right so they can really it can be really helpful for autoimmune diseases uh it can be really helpful for cancer um especially helping to prevent some of these negative side effects that can happen from chemotherapy right it

6:56 can sensitize cancer cells um while also so maintaining host cell stability so there's definitely uh different advantages to prolonged fasts like in the multi-day you know multi-week range but they're not going to be something that's going to be achievable for everybody and kind of they're the the last resort that a lot of people go to and that's kind of more or less what the clinic is set up for so what did you find out about fasting in your research so when we looked at fasting we were looking at a 36-hour fast and the reason why we decided to look at a 36-hour fast was because that is in the literature where you typically see the best lifespan extension this um continued pattern of alternate day fasting so one day of

7:41 eating which is typically you know 12 hours of eating Then followed by a day of fasting which is you know one sleep cycle 12 hours plus 24 of non-eating right so 36 hours total and you kind of just rinse and repeat that for an entire lifespan of the organism so we wanted to look at a 36-hour fast in humans because we wanted to line up with the literature but also make sure that we were getting deep enough into fasting that we were going to see these metabolic changes so we had 20 people 10 men 10 women to avoid a gender bias come in and do a 36-h hour fast and we looked at there before and after and what we saw was that when people fast for 36 hours they became much more functionally enhanced in their plasma so their plasma became

8:28 anti-inflam at it became antioxidant and cellular protective it became cardioprotective had better cholesterol ux um capacity which is essentially the gold standard marker for cardiovascular risk and that's really impactful because in the nutrition world it's very rare right to take already young healthy people have them do something for just you know one day right 36 hours and then all of a sudden basically they're super people sounds like we should tell all the Olympic athletes to start fasting the really interesting part about that for us was um you know what what's going on right what is the difference between one state and the other that could be causing these beneficial effects to happen so we did what's called comprehensive metabolomics basically

9:14 looking at all of the small molecule components of the plasma and what we found was that there were over 300 significant differences between a baseline State and a fasting State and so we basically screened through that of 300 molecules looking for ones that already had some kind of literature you know result for being bioactive so whether that was it has anti-inflammatory Properties or it has antioxidant properties it can promote autophagy whatever it was we were able to narrow that list of 300 down to around 24 targets and then screened through those molecules looking for ones that could recreate these beneficial effects of fasting that we were seeing in the plasma

10:00 and eventually we were able to find this synergistic combination of four of those metabolites that when we combine them together they could recreate these beneficial anti-inflammatory antioxidant cardioprotective effects of fasting in human cells how were you able to prove that yeah so basically what we did for that was we took human cells and then put them into various stress conditions right so whether that was putting a pro-inflammatory stressor on there or an oxidative stressor on there or lipid loading cholesterol into the cells and then we added in the individual metabolites and then looked at what happened to Cellular functionality after that so we were able to see within the cells that this metabolite produced this

10:46 effect that effect that effect and then ultimately you know started doing combinations of them to see if we could get you know effects that were greater than the sum of their parts did you create something that's a actually usable using these four compounds like how are you utilizing this information yeah absolutely so we were able to show that these four compounds together could recreate these beneficial cellular effects of fasting but then also really impactfully we did see elegan lifespan extension analysis as well and we're able to show that these four molecules together could extend lifespan by 96% um just through supplementation no caloric restriction no fasting required so basically um these metabolites can

11:32 you know help to activate these synergistic compliment Pathways within cells within organisms to recreate the benefits of fasting and the great part is is because they are you know naturally occurring human metabolites they can also be used as supplements and that's essentially what mimo is mimo is our fasting mtic product that's the combination of those four molecules and basically what mimo is doing is just taking what your body would naturally produce during a 36- hour fast giving it back to people as a supplement you can recreate fasting at the molecular level activate these same cellular health benefits but without actually having to fast H so are these molecules actually synthesized outside of the body and then

12:18 put together right yeah so essentially these are naturally occurring human molecules but they also occur within the food stream as well so for example the four molecules that we identified were nicotinamide spermidine o oil ethanolamide oea and palmoil ethanolamide pea and all four of those molecules can be extracted from natural sources nicotinamide is a vitamin B3 derivative spermidine is a metabolite of arginine just a you know simple amino acid palmoil ethanolamide is produced from palmitic acid and O oil ethanolamide is produced from o acid like you would find in olive oil so these can all come from natural sources

13:03 and in our supplement they do okay so so the you put all these molecule molecules together and then fed it to Sea elegance and so how long do they live usually so a sea elegans will usually live for about a month that's that's like the typical lifespan of sea elegans and that's usually for like pretty long lived worms so you made them almost two months okay and are you planning on uh doing experiments in mammals yeah so we I've already done a pilot clinical study with the mimo formulation in humans so what we did for this study was we had people come in eat a standardized breakfast alongside a placebo control

13:51 then those same people after a wash out period come in eat a standardized breakfast um and then with supplementation with Mimo and we looked at the before and after on their plasma functionalities just like we did in the discovery study and what we found was that when people ate a standardized breakfast with the placebo there was this big loss in plasma functionality and that's very typical of the postprandial response right you have all this food coming in that's you know taking the system throwing it out of homeostasis lots of metabolic chaos that's happening great you you create chaos yeah good news and then yeah dietary inflammation that's another big thing that happens right so you know lots of perturbances to homeostasis that happen when we eat so and what did they eat what kind of breakfast was it yeah

14:37 it was like nothing crazy it was two Lara bars right so essentially like dates uh cashews blueberries and that was it supposed to be G stuff exactly right so it wasn't like you know a you know Big Mac from McDonald's and a milkshake or anything like that it was just pretty pretty standard what someone would normally eat so what we saw was that chaos so what we saw was that when they ate that breakfast but with a placebo control that there was a their plasma became pro-inflammatory uh they had less antioxidant capacity they had lower plasma cholesterol ux capacity what was really interesting was that when they ate that same standardized breakfast but then with supplementation with Mimo we were able to not only prevent all of that loss of function

15:24 from happening but actually add gains of function on top of that that mimicked what we saw during a fast so instead of being pro-inflammatory their plasma became anti-inflammatory and antioxidant and much better cellular plasma cholesterol ux capacity so that was really cool so basically yeah we showed in that in that study that we could recreate these beneficial effects of fasting even when people are eating so did you also measure what those levels are when they just purely fast fast okay so a very similar eating with a supplement and pure fasting produce about the same results I would say that they're about if I'm remembering correctly 30 to 40% different depending

16:09 on the marker so fat like pure fasting is definitely going to be better for you for those specific markers but again that's a 36-hour fast that we were comparing it to right versus eating normally and taking a supplement so eating normally taking a supplement is 30 to 40% less powerful than just just fasting itself correct you're still going to be better off just fasting yeah you're still you're still definitely going to be better off just fasting in terms of you know uh getting to these enhanced plasma functional metrics but you're going to be better off fasting as long as you're doing a 36- hour fast yeah did you try the fasting with your supplements we haven't tried fasting with the supplements you know the main thing that we wanted to prove out here was that we could achieve these fasting

16:55 like benefits even when people are eating but we I know that people do use mimo as a fasting enhancer and it can be really beneficial for that especially if people are doing more the shortterm fasts right so if you're only doing a 168 fast or if you're doing like a one meal a day kind of schedule then this can really help to enhance the benefits of the fast kind of more to that 36-hour fasting Mark does it make the fast less miserable yeah so there are two molecules in Neo that actually do help with fast so one of them is O oil ethanolamide oea that's involved in the gut brain axis and actually helps to stimulate satiety and reduce appetite and that's uh that's been clinically

17:41 proven in you know three or four different studies that OA has this very profound effect on appetite suppression and then weight loss and anti-inflammatory effects as well so really cool and then poo ethanolamide is part of the endoc canabo system stimulates through CB1 CB2 receptors so kind of behave like your body's natural CBD almost it has mood enhancement effects cognition enhancement effects but then also uh pain relief or discomfort relief effects as well specifically on ner uh nerve pain and neuropathy wow interesting so the goal is to harness the benefits of fasting through these molecules right so whether or not you are not fasting you can reap

18:26 some of the benefits of fasting or if you're fasting you can enhance the result of your fasting maybe making the fasting a little easier to tolerate correct okay so if you are doing fasting I mean do we know what the ideal length of fasting is do do do we know what's what's the ideal to achieve the best you know outcome for human longevity and health right um we don't really uh we know that there like from the research that we've done on fasting in humans we know that there are some you know of these shorter term fasts that aren't really all that impactful right we know that there are these long-term fasts that can be very impactful right from the the clinical data from the Santa Rosa the Santa Rosa side of things so we

19:12 don't know what the ideal range of fasting is right now from a human data perspective from an animal data perspective it's pretty straightforward and it is more in that alternate day fasting realm right so that kind of like 36-h hour rep repeated fasting Mark is typically where we see the best lifespan extension where we see the best um disease amelioration when you say animals are they mostly rats and mice yeah rats mice dogs and then some we haven't really done like primate studies with do they compare prolonged fasting with 30-day alternate day fasting is that that did they do the comparison I don't think that anyone's everever done a comparison of multi-day fasting with mice and Alternate lifelong fasting

20:00 usually when we study multi-day fasts we're looking at an acute before and after rather than a sustained lifespan extension kind of U kind of experiment yeah we definitely know that multi- multi-day will not be good like in aitz and North Korea right we all know what happens to people who are chronically starved of nutrition but but then there must be an optimal range so you do need to feed your body you do need the fuel but then how do you harness what's the best way of doing it I I think that there's such a great range is all over the place people are doing 40-day fast right this how is it's actually good for you it might be I think when we talk

20:46 about what the ideal range of fasting for humans is I think we also do have to take into account what people can achieve right or what is what is reasonable for people to you know incorporate into their daily lives right any any health intervention and any longevity intervention is going to be most effective when it's done consistently and you know initiated as early in life or you know into maturity as possible so you know we can say like maybe the ideal range is like a weekl long fast right but how many people can actually achieve that how many people are going to achieve that what is the what's the relevance of that recommendation versus something like even alternate day fasting right we could tell people alternate day fasting is the best way to achieve these

21:33 lifespan Centum results and maybe people can do that I I personally tried to do that for two years while I was in Stanford that's kind of you know how I got going with the research I was doing alterate a fasting and then taking my own plasma my own you are a disciplined person that's tremendous yeah but it was really hard it it's an incredibly difficult lifestyle especially from a social standpoint because you're missing dinner with family meals with co-workers with friends you know no one wants to sit across the table from you while they're eating and you're just like holding watching them eat right so it just doesn't really like fit into Human Society all that much what do you think you did for you though since you did it I was actually tracking my own cellular

22:18 data you know while I was while I was doing it so I could see for myself that there were these profound changes in cellular functionality the same as what we saw in the discovery study where I became more anti-inflammatory my cells were more resistant to stress they had much better just markers of all functionality had they had better autophagy that was that was happening so it was really really interesting and that's what kind of got me hooked on it in the first place was when you do something and you can actually see it that's working for you at the cellular level you very you know into that Health right right right positive reinforcement enforcement a good thing to be addicted to right but that's what I know from personal experience like that lifestyle

23:05 is just you know it's not going to be sustainable long term for people and that was one of the reasons why I really wanted to do the research into fasting to eventually create mimo was to allow people to get these same beneficial effects of fasting but without having to completely devote their life to it yeah very interesting um so if people do take the supplement to try to reap the benefit the fasting let's say we're doing 36-hour alternate day fasts how often should you take the supplements so if someone was doing alternate day fasting and they wanted to take mimo at the same time it would be beneficial to take mimo on your eating days for sure it can also be beneficial to take it in the early stages of your to like we said

23:53 before help people kind of get over that initial hump suppress some of the appetite give them a bit more of the mood elevation cognition enhancement and you know potential discomfort relief from the Pea and the oea uh so I they wouldn't need to take it at the 36-h hour fasting mark because that's you know kind of you their body would already be producing those molecules at that point but it could still be beneficial during the eating phases like we showed in our clinical study and then also you know in those initial stages of fasting yeah would you tell people to do this like all the time uh or do should they take it like a month on a month off

24:39 like how do you think is the is a good approach for reaping the benefits yeah well we've seen so far is that uh there doesn't really need to be any kind of cycling here because there's not really a physiological adaptation that happens to these particular metabolites so number one they're all you know natural human molecules so your body kind of inherently knows how to take them up metabolize them utilize them and excrete them you know very safely and effectively uh We've like there studies of up to six months of supplementation with some of the individual ingredients that have shown you know no negative severe adverse effects or you know really side effects either a really good safety profile for a lot of these molecules in the clinical studies that we've done and then the previous studies

25:25 that have been done on the individual metabolites you know we've seen benefits from you know months long three months long two months long supplementation um without any kind of negative consequence so we haven't seen any reason to cycle on and off you wouldn't normally produce these molecules unless you are in a 36-hour fastest dat which most of us aren't really getting to so that's why there's kind of not a physiological adaptation like you can get with something like hormonal replacement therapy and testosterone specifically right yeah yeah that's great I'm really interested in seeing how uh it will make my fasting easier and and maybe I could do a little longer and and without being uh

26:11 irritable I mean the hanger is real I know from experience yeah and uh I'm sure people ask you about uh since you are in a sense mimicking fasting people probably ask you about your the difference between your work and your product and Dr Walter Longo's uh fasting mimicking diet which has been very popular a lot of practitioners carry that in their practice I have done that I have used it myself although I could barely finish the five days and I was really miserable so um yeah what what what how do you answer what the differences may be sure so basically what the fasting mimicking diet is doing is providing you with you know a 5-day program that's pretty

26:57 severe caloric restriction right so at most you're consuming somewhere between 700 to 1,000 calories per day so it's and giving you a specific diet that doesn't activate these you know typical fed Pathways right so they especially engineered what you're getting in that in that box to you know keep you in a fasted State even while you're eating calories and one of the reasons why it works so well is also because of that severe caloric restriction side of things right so taking in 700 calories a day is going to give you very effects that are very similar to fasting because it's very restricted calories mimo on the other hand is not a diet it's taking what your body would naturally produce

27:43 during a 36-hour fast these bioactive fasting metabolites and then giving them back to you as a supplement to basically raise their concentration in your body even when you're eating so that you can activate these similar cellular health effects these similar uh fasting Pathways get those fasting like benefits but without actually having to fast so we are recreating fasting at the molecular level through supplementation whereas prolong is you know a a diet that's meant to not activate these fed Pathways and try and keep you in a fasting State yeah I definitely like the Simplicity and elegance of your model to do a whole diet is definitely a little

28:29 combersome with particular types of products you know that you get a whole box and you know that you have little morsels of each item you know a few a few times a day and that was you know very limited so the fact that you can eat normally um that's uh that's pretty remarkable but does what you eat actually matter as a PhD in nutrition I will definitely say that what you are there things you recommend that people eat while taking your supplements so I can't make any specific recommendations um just because we haven't you know done a full like comprehensive nutrition panel and how it everything cross interacts with the mimo formulation what I can say is that how I eat when I take mimo is I try to

29:15 basically follow a certain set of principles that looks a lot like paleo but not for the reasons that paleo people do Paleo I'm not like oh this is what we were evolutionarily designed to do but I really like focusing on U micronutrient density with low caloric density right so trying to get as much nutrients as possible while minimizing calories while also trying to get as much volume as possible so what that usually ends up looking like is lots of lean protein with um very like fibrous low calorie vegetables like radishes and zucchinis and eggplants and you know that kind of ether rainbow situation um and with limited did simple or refined carbohydrates that's kind of like my my

30:03 eating pattern even now I still eat one meal a day just because I like it and it fits into my lifestyle uh because I like to be able to wake up in the morning have my mimo have my green tea and just kind of really dial in and focus on the work for the day and then once that's done kind of be able to compartmentalize and be like all right now is the time for my big like food reward and like relaxation and you get to have this like you know big meal the end of the day that just really leaves you full and satisfied even though you have the the mimicking assistance you're still doing intermittent fasting yeah absolutely yeah and I because like this is just you know like I said it's you got to do what works with your with your lifestyle and I really like having the mimo there it helps support me because I think that

30:49 it's really enhancing the benefits I am getting I don't have to go all the way to a 36-hour fast and I still get to you know just eat the that I want to eat yeah yeah that's wonderful so you know there's a lot of uh great reports about intermittent fasting and paleo style eating or keto type of eating but there's you know also other camps um of people who are saying that chronically you know restricting your calories or uh really kind of almost depriving your body on a chronic basis is very hard to eat all the nutrients you need with one meal right all the the protein and all the nutrition so um some people say they

31:35 do amazing just eat whatever they want um and then then they achieve great lean body physique so um yeah that's a little bit of uh you know differences and controversy there do you have any thoughts on that yeah nutrition is a very difficult space um from from my from my research into it It's Different Strokes for different folks you have a lot of genetic complexity that happens between you know individual people between um different groups of people between different countries of people right no no one person is going to be the same as the other and that's why it's nutrition research is very very difficult because usually you know if you take a homogeneous population and you put them on a singular diet even

32:22 within that you're going to have a lot of different inter inter individual variation and so what works for one person isn't going to work for the other it's the classic thing where it's like oh well you know my grandma she drank whiskey and smoked every day and she lived to be 92 whereas like this other guy who's you know like a vegan ultramarathon Runner drop dead at 70 right and it's it's it's just really hard to do what what I like the best advice I can give people is to try different stuff out and really just find out what works and start tracking that's really the the major thing as well if you can do you know any kind of biometric tracking if you can do blood marker tracking if you can you know track your sleep if you can do whatever really get into the whole like SE

33:07 Quantified Self biohacking side of things um you can do something like an Elimination Diet like Whole 30 right where you just kind of take everything down to Baseline and then add things in over time see how everything makes you feel over time and like you know how it changes your blood markers or your sleep patterns or whatever it is and find that diet that both works for your lifestyle and then also works for your health well it's a rare for me to have an opportunity to talk to somebody that has a PHD in nutrition so I definitely going to ask you one of the biggest Divergence is about carbs so you know or besides the the animal versus vegan you know that's a whole other can of worms yes um so as far as carbs versus no carbs their

33:55 both camps are very very V that because there are people who they they eat lots of carbs and they're doing phenomenally well and they believe that's really important to eat all those CBS and there are other people who said it's is terrible you know then you you're going to really impair your metabolic uh function and then you you're going to gain weight and all that so I've seen both camps some people are doing really well um in either Camp so what's your answer to how a person can find out which diet they should they should go after I would say that yeah from a carb perspective just from a from a macro level there's nothing inherently wrong with carbohydrates right they are

34:40 just part of our our natural metabolism you know most things in the body do get converted into you know into glucose we we need glucose to survive right our brains literally can't uh survive without glucose even if we go into a k a ketogenic diet right where it's all fat and no carbs our brains still need 50% of their energy source to come from glucose even if we you know aren't taking in any carbohydrates at all and that'll end up coming from glucogenesis from protein stores but just like carbohydrates as a whole are not the enemy it definitely can vary from person to person especially on like how much you're actually eating of the carbohydrates right and like what kind

35:26 of carbohydrates are you getting that's going to be another main factor right if you're getting a lot of your carbohydrates from ultr processed foods from refined sugars um from you know uh like simple simple starches that's going to be where you usually end up running into problems because uh that can cause things like pre-diabetes and Insulin signaling problems insulin resistance right especially if you're overstimulating at the same time and especially if you're overeating at the same time and that's usually my recommendation for people and usually what I can always go back to as the um the end all Beall of nutrition but again this is my bias because I exist in the caloric restriction and fasting literature when you look at diet proportions and how everything breaks

36:11 down you definitely do want to limit protein but mainly you want to limit calories for lifespan extension right usually you get into metabolic disorders in one way or another because of overc consumption so if you are chronically taking in food above what your maintenance level is or above what your energy expenditure is that's where you're going to see the weight gain that's where you're going to see the metabolic disruptions that happen as you get into these later stages of obesity the insulin resistance things like that so from my perspective it's really all about balance and making sure that we are not like overfeeding ourselves and that will solve a lot of the issues that you know the very the very specific and detailed like oh is it 51 grams of

36:58 protein or 52 grams of protein is probably getting too far into the weed yeah protein is another thing that um you know there some doctors of course is really advocating for eating lots of protein you know to the point of one gram per pound of body weight right so that's a lot of protein to cram into the body do you think that's really as beneficial as they claim it is or is it overfeeding your body protein yeah I mean there's a there's there's a weird distinction for that as well so protein is one of those things that can be really beneficial right you need to get a certain amount of protein especially you know your essential amino acids one gram per pound of body weight is definitely a lot and I know that I know

37:44 that that's you know just kind of core bodybuilder knowledge right but when you actually look at the studies maximal foro incorporation is much beneath that I can't remember the exact number but I think it's more in the range of 1.6 gram per kilogram of body weight is like the maximal protein in corporation and when they do studies of increasing protein after that they don't see additional benefit so that's about 08 grams per pound right exactly so you know it's not going to be it's not going to be anything super duper uh super duper crazy um I would say that you definitely want to be careful about too much protein consumption from a longevity

38:29 point of view because we've seen that very high protein diets typically have a negative impact on longevity and that's usually because you're kind of overstimulating these Pathways that are very good for growth right like mtor igf1 growth hormone things like that but mtor igf1 and growth hormone are also usually typically very bad for longevity these are the same Pathways that when you over stimulate them shorten lifespan and to a certain degree that makes sense right if you're growing that means that you're doing a lot of cell replication if you're doing a lot of cell replication that means you're going to have increased DNA damage you're going to have accelerated telr shortening um you're going to have more chances for like you know mutations that happen in

39:16 cancer cell formation potentially right you're kind of just wearing your cells out at a more expedite so that's kind of the big thing about protein that I always with especially things that like we've seen in the longevity research that methionine restriction is really really helpful um Branch chain amino acid restriction also helps to enhance lifespan so there's specific amino acids that you kind of want to be aware of and try and avoid with protein consumption as well if you know longevity is your goal if growth is your goal it's actually kind of the opposite right branchi and amuno acids are really good for you know gaining muscle so it's all it's all very much a balance have everything what is your protein goal uh my teal protein goal is that 08 you know

40:02 Gram really so that's quite a bit that 08 gram for kilogram and that's because I am you know what at least what I consider to be like you know an athlete so that's and that's also more or less the government recommendation as well like for high activity individuals where like I'm going to the gym every day and I'm you know doing weight weightlifting and weight training that's kind of what I tend to stick to and I'm I'm there mainly because you know as as I say you know the whole oh like you there's a there's a balance between protein and growth simulation and Longevity one of the best markers for longevity going into old age like 65 plus is your muscle mass at the age of 65 so typically the more muscle mass you have at 65 the

40:49 better chances you have of going into longevity and you know having a better lifespan and health span and quality of life typically because of um you know issues with sarcopenia muscle wasting Frailty Falls those are those are the some big Killers yeah need to pack some meat on you to prepare for old age yeah that's fantastic okay so thank you so much for sharing all these pearls I'm pretty excited about what you brought to the world and I would love to try it myself um for for all kinds of reasons you know I'm a fellow biohacker you know definitely you know B hacking I think is all about what is the little trick and little tweaks that we can make that can really accelerate right

41:35 benefits so um I'm I'm really glad that you have done this research for everybody so how can people find out more about your work yeah if they want to learn more about the product you can see our clinical studies you can you know read through our science at MIM health.com that's MMO health.com wonderful thank you so much Dr rhs I appreciate you being on the show yeah thanks Joy thanks for having me it was really fun