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0:00 this is not what they're telling us we can start to heal some of these chronic lifestyle conditions that are so rampant with tiny doses of this it's like opening a window of opportunity for somebody to completely change their life Dr Tina Moore is a distinguished naturopathic physician whose groundbreaking work is leading the way in combating some of the biggest diseases in medical conditions that our modern world currently faces everyone's saying that OIC is evil this is the worst thing ever but a lot of people are being overdosed for weight loss and this leads to a very high risk for side effects but o done correctly has all these other benefits that have nothing to do with weight loss and they are just mind-blowing healing and reversing type 1 diabetes Parkin and Alzheimer's we've got studies showing really positive impacts on depression and anxiety and potentially reducing cancer risks it shifts your gut microbiome to a more
0:46 favorable microbiome and then my daughter PCOS symptoms reverse which is probably one of the number one drivers of infertility in young women I mean holy sh and I've seen it with my patients and I've seen it with myself cuz I lived with chronic pain my whole life and I Remember by the end of 2021 thinking if this doesn't get better I think I'm going to kill myself but I started myself at a tiny little dose and the destruction fell away Dr Tina Mo what would you scream to the world right now we are eating a chemical storm of a food supply young women are bathing in toxic chemicals through their beauty habits microbiome disruption from all the antibiotics I joke that humans are going extinct but I think it's really happening if we don't write this ship but there's things we can do that are non-negotiable that have nothing to do with drugs your six
1:32 pillars for a pain-free life yes first of all I would congratulations diio gang we've made some progress 63% of you that listen to this podcast regularly don't subscribe which is down from 69% our goal is 50% so if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted if you like this channel can you do me a quick favor and hit the Subscribe button it helps this channel more than you know and the bigger the channel gets as you've seen the bigger the guest get thank you and enjoy this [Music] episode Dr Tina more who are you by profession and what is the mission that you're on so I'm a naturopathic physician and a
2:19 chiropractor I don't know if you have naturopathic Physicians here in the UK we are trained formally in a four-year medical program and we take national board exams North American I should say and we are taught root cause medicine so the functional medicine Community basically appropriated our medicine many years ago if you've heard of functional you've had doctors on there are functional medicine practitioners and it's the idea that the body can heal itself we are looking to restore homeostasis in the individual so why are things arai I'm less interested in someone's diagnosis as much as I am why are they presenting with that symptom picture what's going on and I was mentored up by one of the finest naturopathic physicians in our profession over the past many decades and he died of cancer in 2013 and I took
3:05 over his practice he was a force to be reckoned with so I carry that flag with me and he was a truth tell and he was often ostracized by our profession for being ahead of the game and you know being ahead of the story usually and I learned so much from him about metabolic health and how metabolic Health was really the root cause driver of so many diseases life style induced diseases that we're seeing in on a worldwide level can you give me just a bit of a glimpse and for someone that's never heard the term naturopathic physician before which which I guess means naturopathic doctor right what is the difference between like a normal doctor and a naturopathic doctor so a traditional allopathic physician is what you're going to be familiar with with an
3:51 MD they're trained in a system where algorithmically they are taught to find disease processes and then they have a stand of care that they follow which is to prescribe X Y and Z yeah for the standard of care and that's not how they always were naturopathic medicine was born out of old timey European MDS so back in Germany and you know long time ago when we didn't have all the fancy lab tests and we didn't have all the fancy Pharmaceuticals we were treating people to bolster their health really you know it's taking you as an individual finding out what makes Mak you tick and then how can we optimize your health overall symptoms and illness Falls away when you treat the body when
4:37 you treat the individual in front of you so I don't treat diseases I treat people that's the difference whereas in allopathic medicine they are very obsessed with the diagnosis and then what pills do we apply to that diagnosis which is different than why is this person presenting this way and what can we do to help them along the Journey of optimizing their health so those symptoms fall away and you you said you took over a clinic there yeah what kind of patients do you see in that practice did you see in that practice and what was the sort of variety of illness or disorder or disease that you came across so his practice was predominantly muscular skeletal medicine so it was uh chronic joint dysfunction and he did a
5:24 specialized type of medicine called Prolotherapy and regenerative injection therapies the modern version of that is stem cells you've probably heard of stem cell injections I'm sure everyone has by this point plate rich plasma is another one and that's what he specialized in but it's not just about shooting fancy substances into people's joints you have to get the person into a healing State first so you need them optimized so that they want to heal so that means hormones that means nutrition that means lifestyle those things are far more critical to get lined up than it is to start shooting fancy substances into their joints even if those substances come from their own body even if we're sucking out their own stem cells and we're sucking out their own blood and we're using those it's far more important that you get the person in an optimized state so that they want to heal so I you know I'd ask patients if
6:10 you cut your fingertip off or just sliced yourself terribly do you heal well and if they said yes they were a wonderful candidate for those types of injections if they did not then they weren't because they weren't in a good healing State at that point so my job was to get them in healing State and then to apply the treatments what is a healing State it's when you fall down and you don't fall apart it's when you get sick with something and you get over it it's when you cut yourself and you heal readily and you don't you know succumb to terrible infections and I think we've ended up as a society where the norm has become to be somewhat imuno compromised I think a lot of people are walking around not not you younger folks but at least in the US a lot of people are walking around in this sort of semi imuno compromis State much
6:55 of it is due to metabolic dysfunction which is something he was always drilling into me what is metabolic dysfunction it is when your metabolic Health at its core is the ability to take in the foods that you eat and assimilate them properly so if you were to eat proteins and fats and carbohydrates you would turn them into the fuel that they need to be you would turn them into the proteins in your body that they need to be when that goes Ary which is almost 100% of us adults at this point from what the data is showing things don't go so well and so what that leads to this metabolic dysfunctional pattern leads to insulin resistance which is essentially pre-diabetes which is the long game into di type two
7:41 diabetes and we've completely normalized that process at least during my lifetime I've watched that happen I'm 50 years old so I've watched this happen especially since I got into medicine working for my mentor Dr Rick watching folks go down this pathway of normalization into type two diabetes and it's not until they get there that the doctor says oh you have type two diabetes we got to do something about it here's your pills and there's 15 to 20 years of leg work that can be done before that happens and that's where I think naturopathic medicine really shines and where preventative functional medicine all of us are in the same camp we're all doing the same thing we're really trying to just help the patient in front of us not so much the disease process we're trying to make sure that the person's optimized so that they can become more resilient so that their
8:27 immune system works properly so that the foods that they eat are assimilated properly and they don't end up in a cellular millu of disaster is is there like a fundamental belief that you have about human beings how we heal how to be healthy um and the body I guess that you think is in contrast or conflict to the current system like a set of fundamental underlying beliefs because we all have like a set of sunglasses on our lens of how we see the world yes and what I've obviously learned from doing this podcast is everyone seems to be wearing slightly different lenses M you know as to their view on health this the healthare system humans healing Society what are those sort of fundamental underlying beliefs that you have that's a great question I think that in
9:14 traditional naturopathic medicine the purist would tell you that there's no room for pharmaceuticals and that you must only go with nature the healing power of nature stoke the individual's Vitality that's very important in naturopathic medicine we're looking at the Vitality of an individual some would call that an aura I think that's a little too esoteric it is when you look at someone are they are they glowing Vitality do they look healthy you can see it I know you can everyone can see it when you actually point it out to people do they look healthy or are they sort of walking around in grayscale right and I think a lot of people these days are unfortunately walking around in grayscale because they've sort of you know we've all been listening to the mainstream narrative and the food suppli is busted this has been going on for decades my mentor was talking about this decades ago nobody was listening and now people I think are
10:01 starting to get hip to it because we've got the internet we've got podcasts like yours and mine where we're trying to get the you know the information out and it's the inherent ability of the body to heal however I do think there's a place for pharmaceuticals and I have a license to prescribe in the state of Oregon and I'm not afraid to use it because in my mind and the way that my mentor taught me is somebody comes in and they're on this many Pharmaceuticals I mean I'm 50 the average person my age is on five different Pharmaceuticals at this point which is crazy to me and I don't know what the stats are in the UK but I can't imagine they're tremendously better so they come in on all these drugs and their lifestyle is in somewhat of shambles and so my job is to optimize lifestyle so that I can get these down to the lowest or to nil ideally we could get them off but if they need a little
10:46 something then great I was also taught by him to implement longevity medicine which is hormones and making sure that people are able to maintain physiologic levels of optimal hormone function as we age which is really important to aging well and so it's just kind of a mix of using the best of Nature and that science has to offer and treating the person in front of you of all the case studies that you have in your mind experience and in your past is there one that you are most PR of it was 2019 my career was really taking off and my mom kept telling me that she didn't feel good and I was like my mom is a rock my mom's my mom's like comes up to he on me I call her my little mama and she just chugs along and I was like oh
11:31 she'll be fine she's like no I really don't feel good and I kept blowing her off cuz I was too busy and I was on planes all the time and traveling all the time and I was never home and my mom came to visit me at my house and she came out of the bathroom and she said she's like I like I can't hold my bowels like I I can't I'm so sick and so I immediately started testing her and she had Crohn's disease and my grandmother had died of Crohn's Disease and several people in her side of the family had died of Crohn's Disease and I just hadn't put two and two together that my mom may have had but she had all the symptoms like growing up she had all the symptoms and I just never put it together and it was hitting her it it rears its ugly head when folks hit their Elder years like in their 70s they call it you know
12:16 colitis of the elderly and people basically get it and die they just [ __ ] themselves to death and so my mom was in it and I was like oh no and I pulled out everything I had and I have access to some incredible regenerative substances that you know most people don't and I can use them off label in ways that you know in most people don't even think to do and I threw everything I had at her because I knew if I'd sent her into the alpath system they were going to do a colonoscopy on her and what that does is they flush you out before they do the colonoscopy and if I if her Flora were to get flushed out of her gut at that point I don't think she would have come out of the hospital because they end up getting secondary infection and so I I pulled her out of it I got
13:01 her out of the really acute phase and then I immediately referred her to my colleague who is a brilliant physician naturopathic physician and I was like take over I'm not I don't want to manage my mom but I needed to get her I I knew that it was the skill set that I had in particular that was going to pull her out of that and so we did it and she came to me one day after she was better and she was stabilized and she said you saved my life and at the time I was really bitching about my half a million dollarss of student loan debt that was just compounding and compounding and compounding and I was really frustrated by the fact that I couldn't get on top of it and I had at that point spent like $100,000 paying off my loans and they were still at the same level I mean it just criminal that system and she said
13:47 you saved my life it was worth every penny you know and then my daughter turned around who had just gone through a very difficult time herself and she said you saved my life too Mom this year and I was like well that was what it cost to gain the knowledge that I gained to save my daughter and my mother and then my dad was like you saved my You' bailed me out many times and I was like okay that's so it was kind of um it was just kind of ironic that was the end of my big clinical career you know when I had my big brick and mortar with the high volume patient base and all of I still see patients but not at that level and so that was really I was like thank God I had the knowledge and the tools and the knowhow to and the fearlessness to apply some of the therapies that I applied the way I did to in terms of before and after what
14:34 sort of picture of Health would I observe if I saw her on that day when she walked out of the toilet versus you know after the the variety of different therapies that you applied well this is a good story because she was super gray and super thin and my mom has always been kind of you know hippie and curvy and I mean she's we're built different she's she's the more you know um she's the curvy one and she was just ra thin and gray and all of her hair was falling out I mean she just I can't believe I missed it I can't believe it went on that long that I didn't see it and I I still carry guilt to this day and I always apologize to her for being too busy to I can't believe I let my stress level get so high that I didn't see it you know and then she ended up on a slew of pharmaceuticals that were too expensive
15:20 to get in the United States so she had to get them from Canada so her naturopathic physician is managing her so she's getting medication very expensive medication from Canada and she's doing okay and then in the last nine months I put her on the tiniest droplet of seacu tide which is a zic and she is phenomenal all of her joint Pain's gone her guts completely regulated and normalized she is down on a minimal dose of this medication that she's getting from Canada she's still taking it but it's a tiny dose her cognition has improved significantly because through this process she was starting to get low-grade dementia whether she realizes it or not my daughter and I were noticing it we were like is Grandma okay and so when people come at me for talking about micro doing OIC I will not
16:05 back down because my mom is solid and it's the tiniest amount and she even said to me just the other day before I was coming on the show I was telling her I was stressed I was trying to get ready for the trip you know overseas and she said you know I was so stressed out before you put me on seacu tide because my dad's health is very poor and she said I was so stressed that I really felt like it was going to do me in like I was at capacity and you put me on this acuti and all of the anxiety and stress just dropped away and I was like that's cuz it's calming to neuroinflammation which is secondary to Chronic gastrointestinal diseases when the gut is inflamed the brain's inflamed so she was dealing with all this chronic brain inflammation all this gut inflammation and she's on this tiny little dose of
16:51 OIC and she's very solid and she's her color's back she's filled in again she's curvy again she's eating normally she does I mean she couldn't eat hardly anything ever for years and so now she's back to eating very normally she's still got to watch what she eats but you know it's not a free-for-all but she is she's back the other I guess glaringly obvious case study for your work but also I think many of the things we're going to talk about like micro doing and zenek is you yeah because as I read through your story from your childhood years through your teenage years and even in University um and then even later into your career and I guess also now because you mentioned that you still deal with chronic pain you are your own case study I am can you give me a view of of the
17:37 struggles you've been through in terms of your health um and really where that started what was the sort of first first instance where you experienced the pain the trauma etc etc so I always had stomach AES always since I was a child always and was hit with really pretty severe anxiety I didn't know what it was at the time but it was anxiety and and I started getting chronic pain in my teenage years and I out of nowhere when I was about 15 the lights went out on me I just became extremely suicidal and depressed out of nowhere I mean it was like somebody just switched a lever I had moved to Oregon from Southern California I do believe that the lack of light was massive I think that people really I'm really starting to appreciate
18:23 it's taken me all these decades but light deficiency is a huge issue that we're not no one's talking about if few people are but you're talking about like vitamin D production as well right there because there oh that was huge so that took years you know nobody was talking about that it was not until decades later I was sitting in naturopathic medicine school I was in college and um I think I was in year three of that program and this doctor Dr Alex Vasquez came to lecture at Ground rounds and he started talking about vitamin D and sunlight deficiency and I had been kind of low-grade looking into sunlight deficiency because it turns out the hospitals of your really would optimize sunlight and they would have sun porches I don't know if you've seen the photos they would roll all the kids out and all of the convalescing ill people out I mean that's how people survived the 1918
19:08 flu was the ones who got sunlight and the ones who were able to go to these hospitals and they would build the hospitals to optimize light exposure inside the board because they knew it kept the bacteria counts down and I mean even if they didn't know what bacteria was or what was happening they knew that when sunlight penetrated people were you know healthier and things were cleaner and infections didn't seem to spread and so I hit my 20s and long story short I was rocking psoriatic arthritis for decades before I ever figured it out and it really culminated for me I went through a lot of chronic pain I went through a lot of misery I went through a lot of autoimmune issues and then I got everything dialed in I thought I had it handled interestingly autoimmune disease will flare and will recede and flare and recede and it's kind of on Q like you'll
19:54 see it around 10 to 11 years old especially with things like Crohn's disease you'll see these little glimmers pop up for kids and then it goes away and then you'll see them present in their teenage years and often they'll present with you know mental emotional issues and not so much the gastrointestinal issues but it's the same process going on in the body and then it'll go away and then it might flare again postpartum because of that big hormone surge that happens with child birth and then it'll go away and then it'll come back with a vengeance in menopause as the hormones again shift majorly and that's what was happening for me and then all of the stress of pushing Back Against The Narrative really caught up with me and I was nothing that I knew to do was working so the whole protocol I put my mother through was not working for me nothing was touching it and that is how I came
20:39 to start studying glp1 Agonist I started I was researching anything that would calm neural inflammation because at the end of the day diseases down here are coming from here and when the brain's on fire and the brain's inflamed the immune system gets sent completely sideways and the Downstream processes culminate in autoimmune disease pain hormonal disruption you name it and so I that's how I ended up I literally put into Google glp1 and neuroinflammation and all these studies showed up and that's what got me going two questions there so glp1 is a zmek so it's yes it's the peptide that the body makes naturally we make it in the brain and we make it in
21:25 the gut but if somebody's had a life of chronic gut inflammation I don't think they're making it so well in the gut and OIC is just a it's several versions down in the generational line of these peptides called Inc cretans they're um they're a whole family that started way back 20 some years ago and they've just gotten a little bit nicer with less side effects and longer halflife as we go along the journey so the last decent one was Lorac glutide although compliance was low because it made people feel really terrible and they had to inject it too frequently I think it was daily or I think that's how it is still and then seacu is a newer generation tepati is a newer generation and so they're they're just getting a little more
22:10 potent and I don't mean potent in a pharmaceutical way I mean they're starting to realize how these work and they're they're getting craftier with not only keeping them in the body for the time that they need so the halflife gets longer but they're finding in this Suite of signaling peptide hormones that are involved with app appetite and with metabolic health and Insulin secretion and insulin sensitivity they're finding better and better ways to combine these to get optimal function with the least amount of side effects okay and at that moment in your life where you started Googling glp1 and inflammation Etc if I was a fly on the wall in your life at that moment what
22:56 would I have what would I have seen what was the sort of picture of desperation or you know so 2021 I spent most of that year on my back cuz I was in so much pain it was crazy and my husband when he met me he met me in 2019 and we got married in 2020 and I told him I had chronic pain and I told him I had a funny immune system but he had never seen it like he'd never seen it full force and he got to see it that year he was like wow so this is what chronic pain looks like I mean it's it was devastating and my spine was fusing and I'm active I do platies and I dance a lot and I hula hoop and I roller skate and I lift weights and I'm you know moving and shaking I was not moving and shaking in 2020 I was 2021 I was flat on my back on the couch and I Remember by the end of 2021
23:42 thinking if this doesn't get better I think I'm going to kill myself like I couldn't do it anymore like I just couldn't live with that level of pain and my spine was fusing and I could feel it and I kept trying to tell everyone something is wrong and my chiropractor friends were great but they knew muscular skeletal medicine and my naturopathic friends were great but they knew systemic medicine and I I needed me I needed my brain on the case like someone who had both right and I just couldn't get on top of it and then finally I I don't know how or why I I went kind of into the story oh I know what it was I broke out with psoriasis I broke out with psoriasis all over my scalp and I was like oh this is what this is this is ptic arthritis which turns out to be one of the most painful muscular skeletal
24:27 autoimmune conditions you can have it it's worse than rheumatoid arthritis on the Pain Scale from what the studies shows so I was like okay now that I know what I'm dealing with what can I do so I started pulling out all the stops and all the things I knew to do lotos now trone exomes you name it I was doing everything it really wasn't bringing it down or it would work for a minute and it would it would it would wear off and so I was getting desperate and my I have a podcast and my podcast producer said you got to do an episode on OIC and I was like I don't I don't like talking about weight loss I really don't like talking about weight loss it people get so emotionally triggered and it's a big topic and it's nuanced and it's not as simple as people want to make it be and in my functional medicine world people want to make it so
25:13 simplistic just exercise more and eat less and take these supplements and it'll go carnivore and it'll all go away it's not that simple there's genetic components there's brain components there's epigenetic components and it was like the Pandora's Box I didn't want to open and so finally I was like okay fine I'm going to start researching these and I was sitting I was laying on the couch on my back and it's 2023 at this point but I'm still having to take frequent breaks right on my back so I'd go exercise and I'd have to lay down for three hours so I'm Googling and I look up glp1 and neuroinflammation because I always start there I always start with pain neuroinflammation and immune activation I always want to know what any substance does in those because that's my world right because that's what I did in clinical practice
25:59 and I googled that my husband's in the kitchen and I was like holy [ __ ] and I turned the phone around and I was like look at this and he's like I don't know what that means babe and I was like this is not what they're telling us like this is not what because that was at the height of mainstream media and all the clickbait headlines and you know Mom is overdosing on OIC and people's stomachs are paralyzed forever and I was like so then I started of course looking at all that like is that for real like are they really getting gastroparesis forever no so I start going into all the data and I just that was it it was like the rabbit hole and it that was May of 2023 and I've been kneee in it ever since just consumed by any and all information and then of course everybody start I started
26:45 doing podcasts about it on my show and everyone's sending me all the information and hundreds of people are reaching out to me telling me these really profound stories and changes in their health that have nothing to do with weight loss or diabetes and so that was it I was like I got I got bit by some kind of um well you know I don't like propaganda I don't like when I hear everybody saying the same thing it makes me suspicious you know when everyone's running in One Direction screaming this is evil this is this is this is you know the worst thing ever I was like I don't know this has been around for 20 some years not some acuti but this version of medication this family of medication and so I don't know I was like I'm not buying this I'm gonna find out what the
27:31 truth is and so I called every doctor I knew that might use it I called every pharmacist I knew that might use it nobody was seeing any of these horrific side effects like the stories you were seeing on the media currently what was that summer that was really it came to like full height summer of 2023 I think that was when everybody was losing their minds about it the minute they started talking about weight loss people started losing their minds about it which I find very interesting and what I was Finding in the literature was not at all adding up to what I was hearing and then there were all of these other benefits that were just mind-blowing you know benefits on healing and reversing type 1 diabetes healing and reversing neurocognitive
28:17 conditions like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's efficacy with alcohol sensation people who were you know alcohol abuse syndrome using it for that people who also o had the this type of hlb27 it's a genetic propensity towards these um spondo arthritis is like psoriatic arthritis rheumatoid arthritis those kinds of things having showing efficacy for that and as I started speaking out about it I was getting messages back from people telling me their stories hundreds and hundreds of people telling me their stories and I and then seeing what was happening with my patient so I started applying it to everyone I was treating for different reasons at different doses very tiny doses though very little bits and just seeing really profound changes
29:04 in people and I it's not what we're hearing and I don't think that the way also that it's being done in the standard model is ideal for everyone I think a lot of people are being dosed too high too fast and I think a lot of people are being overdosed because at the end of the day it's a hormone it's a peptide signaling hormone and so people are being cranked up on doses very quickly there's a 16 we escalation and they go from this amount to this amount very quickly and in the journey many people are reporting horrific gastrointestinal side effects which are real but it's not the peptide's fault it's the it's a peptide at the end of the day as well which is I can explain what that is yeah if you had to explain what a zmek is or W go or you know this this compound is just to a
29:50 10-year-old yeah okay how would you explain it so you eat amino acids you eat protein and it breaks down into amino acids yeah and amino acids link up with peptide bonds into chains called peptides and then peptides a peptide bond uh it's just a simplistic bond that binds two amino acids together so it can be broken pretty readily with different enzymes and that's in my body the peptide bond is in my body yeah so your body has all these enzymes present and the amino acids link up very simplistically into different chains and then those chains of amino acids are called peptides and peptides link up to form proteins and your body is made of proteins your whole body all of your tissue is made out of proteins and your cellular receptors are made out of
30:35 proteins everything's made out of proteins so if you go backwards those smaller versions are the amino acids I'm sorry are peptides and the smaller versions of that yet are the amino acids so we eat protein we break it down into amino acids and we reconstruct it into more protein and so peptides are these chains of amino acids that we've got all different typ of therapeutic peptides and they insert themselves where they need to go to do what they need to do so that's it at the end of the day and what so what's a zek in that is zek is a peptide it's a peptide and it's made in our L cells of our gut which line from the most proximal to the disal small intestine and it SEC these cells secrete glp1 in the presence of glucose which is
31:22 sugar when we eat sugary Foods or food well all carbohydrates break down into glucose so whenever we eat glucose and they respond actually when a bolus of food so the mechanism of a blob of food going through our guts actually gets these cells to trigger however I have tested thousands of people's guts in my clinical practice in my clinical Lifetime and people's guts are a mess most people have compromised digestion so I don't think their L cells are working optimally in many cases and we also have literature good solid science to show that those who are suffering with obesity type 2 diabetes and fatty liver and that whole metabolic syndrome you know groupage those folks are glp1 deficient so when I take a zmek
32:09 it's causing my gut basically my body to release glp1 No it is the glp1 oh it is the glp1 yep so we're not causing the gut to do anything we are mimicking the actual peptide okay so it's got the same sort of atomic structure as AAL so my body thinks it's gp1 I guess it is G as far as things are concerned and then the gp1 is doing what to me well so it's STi for instance Is bioidentical to the glp1 that our body secretes so it's the same except it's been tweaked with a little bit they've added some lipids to it to make the halflife longer so it lasts longer so normally glp1 would be secreted from our cells it's also secreted from our brain which we got to get into because that's where I got really excited it's secreted
32:55 from our body and it's broken down very quickly and so these newer versions of these incretin hormones or incretin peptides are broken down at a slower Pace okay and then what does glp1 do it does all kinds of cool things so it most notably in what it's known for is to decrease appetite and that happens centrally in the brain yeah it slows gastric motility so it slows things down so you feel Fuller for longer that's at higher doses that doesn't always need to happen and that is what it is known for and it also has induction of it it plays with the cells of your pancreas and it gets them to secrete insulin at the
33:41 right time and so most folks are walking around in some degree of insulin resistance as they age and that is the beginning glimmers of type two diabetes and so gp1s help that process it helps sensitize the cells to the insulin and it helps treat the insulin when needed and when you were struggling in 2023 yeah you started taking a zmek SM magti one of these Brands yeah um what impact did it have on you so I got a compounded version because I thought that the starting dose let's back up the brand name the prescription that most people are familiar with are these little pre-filled pens yeah and the pens only
34:26 come in certain doses you can't control the dosage you start at the lowest dose that they offer and then you have to escalate from there or if your doctor's cool they won't make you escalate too much but either way you don't get to go lower than the dose that it starts and it starts at 0.25 milligrams I thought that that was way too high especially for someone like myself I'm very metabolically optimized I have good muscle mass uh I have very good bone density I have my labs look beautiful I'm hormonally optimized I'm on bioidentical hormone replacement I'm very active I exercise often my sleep is good and I thought my thinking was I wonder if some of us are actually a little glp1 deficient from whether a life of not because we have obesity diabetes and fatty liver there's different
35:13 reasons why those folks would be deficient insulin at high levels itself will actually induce some glp1 deficiency it'll it'll decrease glp1 signaling my thinking was I wonder if folks are just genetically or maybe we got ourselves there through chronic illness whatever it may be I wonder if there's a little bit of a deficiency what if I supplement this peptide like I would a hormone which the way I do that is I give people the lowest dose necessary to achieve a physiologic impact that's favorable and then I cap it so if you need a little bit of thyroid the standard model would have you take well you know the algorithm says you have hypothyroidism so we're going to give you this much and we're going to be this exact drug in my world we compound what we need maybe you need a little more T3 than T4 Maybe you need a tiny dose maybe
35:59 we titrate you up until you start getting a little symptomatic and we're like let's back it down a little so my thinking was to use it that way so I asked everyone I knew are you using this for anything other than appetite suppression or weight loss or diabetes and they all said no nobody really was none of my colleagues were anyway and they were all starting at a dose that I still thought was too high so I started myself at a tiny little dose and my first impact was brain Clarity within days my brain cleared I can't even explain it um brain fog was definitely starting to happen I think it was the psoriatic arthritis and I think it was the I think it was postco you know I think our brains all got hit pretty hard by that and I think it was chronic stress and I think it was menopause and I was sort of in this I'm a high functioning kind of Boss babe and
36:45 I couldn't get my work done and my team was going crazy because I couldn't remember what I told them and you know they're calling me and they're like we already did this we already had this conversation what is wrong with you so I was like damn it this isn't going to work for me I can't rolling the way I'm rolling and trying to run all my businesses and have brain fog like this so that was the first thing I noticed was Clarity of thought brain fog went away anxiety immediately dropped which I didn't even realize I had it just a calmness took over me which was so amazing and within two weeks my pain was down significantly significantly and what I noticed was everything was starting to move in pop again so I was getting Mobility back and by week two I wanted to move again so this version of me that just just wanted to like go do my workout go do my work and then lay down on my back I wasn't that doing that
37:32 anymore and I immediately like signed back up for Pilates and I found myself dancing and hula hooping around the house again and I found myself just being much more active and slowly but surely the destruction sort of fell away because I had been in a pretty destructive immune process for a couple years there and it just has it's taken me I think it's been almost a year now and it's just slowly but surely dropped away I also noticed a little bit of weight loss which I had gained some weight over the past couple years I think it was chronic stress was doing a number on my metabolism and you know you hit that 50-year old Mark and things get tough so I had some weight loss fall away I got right back down to my fight and weight I'm like literally the size I was in 2019 going into all of this and so I quickly started putting people on
38:19 it and very similar responses uh all of them had a little bit of fluff but nobody was on it for weight loss everyone had a little bit of weight fell right off got back down to a good weight my mom I was particularly concerned about cuz I didn't want her to waste away again I didn't want her vomiting I didn't want her having any gastrointestinal symptoms I wanted all of those to resolve it shifts your gut microbiome to a more favorable microbiome if you do it right and so and we have the data on that so I was very slow and cautious with her I don't want her losing any muscle mass and everybody just had these profound impacts my daughter skin cystic acne I mean a decade of severe cystic acne to the point where she did not enjoy her teenage years and she was suicidal from it I mean just hiding behind her hair for for years her skin I remember seeing
39:06 her after 3 weeks on it and I was like your skin is porcelain what happened all of her PCOS symptoms reversed um my husband didn't want to drink anymore the guy is a known alcoholic he was like not interested in alcohol his blood pressure regulated out I mean just all of these little things started happening and I started seeing similar effects in my patience and then I at the same time I was posting about it and talking about it on my podcast and people were messaging me telling me these profound stories they were like I went on it for weight loss or I went on it for metabolic dysfunction or type two diabetes but here's all the other things that started happening and then people started telling me they were getting pregnant on it and you know when they had been infertile and gone through rounds of IVF that were not working and just all of these Amazing Stories and so
39:52 of course I keep I have to research that and do more information on that and it's just been I've just been unwinding I I feel like I'm unwinding a story that isn't being told so what is that story to summarize what is that story that's not being told that you've come to believe these peptides are healing they are anti-inflammatory and they are regenerative and they have a profound impact on our immune system in a positive way and they don't just cover up and mask the insulin resistance and the metabolic dysfunction that leads to type 2 diabetes they actually heal it how' you know that well interestingly as this year's gone on more and more Studies have come out and we're starting to see it so many of the hypotheses I
40:38 had about it are starting to show themselves in good clinical data and good studies and I've seen it with my patients and I've seen it with myself so I am now able to go off of it at first I could only go off of it for a short amount of time and my psoriasis would come back that was the first symptoms I would start getting skin issues and I usually get it around my scalp line little itches that would come back within 7 to 10 days I am now able to go a month without it and absolutely no symptoms and the second I start to get brain fog or a little bit of pain I go back on I cycle it like I would any other hormone I don't know if you've had any guests on talking about hormones but they're done best when you cycle them because receptors get saturated and when you saturate a receptor with a hormone
41:25 or after a while the cell will stop listening and so you don't want to just keep flooding a cell or a body with a hormone you want to take it away and let those receptors pop back up and so I think done correctly and done in an elegant way that's just reasonable clinically reasonable I think that we can actually start to heal some of these chronic lifestyle diseases that are so rampant and it makes me wonder if we would need less and less and less of the common Pharmaceuticals that are being handed out like candy the lifelong Pharmaceuticals people go on statin drugs or they go on blood pressure medications and no one says boo they're on it for life oh here's your metformin for your type 2 diabetes you're on it for life I think done correctly and also the neuro regenerative process that these induce in the brain they actually
42:11 regenerate neurons neuroplasticity is this concept where when the brain when you do something enough your brain will hard wire into that and so any habit good or bad that you consistently do or any thought process you consistently have if you're chronically depressed or you're chronically negative or you're you know I mean you know this you're you you're self-optimizing yourself all the time and growing and trying to grow and be better you're plasticizing your brain and hardwiring that circuitry so it's getting easier for you and you continue to seek knowledge these peptides offer people a window of opportunity of not only giving them the onus of control back because there are some mechanisms in the brain and the dope energic Pathways that are giving people the they're back in the driver's seat they're back in control of what they're doing but it's also
42:58 inducing this neuroplasticity so if they are to implement really positive lifestyle habits During the period of time that they're on it they will hardwire that into their brain so it's like opening a window of opportunity for somebody to completely change their life you mentioned some studies there that have really supported your thesis that a zmek is more than just a weight loss drug and that it has these other sort of regenerative properties and these healing properties what are some of the studies you've got some some things in front of you there that you brought with you what are some of these studies that highlight this in your view well so there's one study in particular that I don't have the title of it written down where they looked at all of the data on all of the glp1 agonists that are out there the different versions that I mentioned and they went back through all of the studies and they looked at it
43:44 system by system by system and I gave your team a link to that and what they found is I mean going from tip to toe neuro regeneration and anti-inflammation in the brain they showed improvements in card vascular tissue we just had a study come out at the end of 2023 called the select trial it was a big one yes it was sponsored by Nova Nordisk who's the manufacturer of samac Tide of I should say of asmic and so people say oh don't believe those studies it was a well- done study it looked at individuals in their 40s who were overweight but did not have type 2 diabetes and it showed a 20% reduction in severe cardiovascular events so stroke and heart attack and and others and so then people argued once that came out and said oh well that foof you know Nova nordis did it and
44:31 that would happen if people lost weight anyway right you you'd have improvements in cardiovascular disease well they just looked at the data again and realized that those benefits were independent of weight loss whether people lost weight or not they still had significant Improvement in cardiovascular outcomes which there's just nothing we don't have anything out there that does that I found data showing regeneration of pancreatic tissue beta cells in type 1 diabetics if given early enough so if a person is type 1 diabetes is an autoimmune condition where the pancreas becomes destroyed by the immune system it's different than type two we don't have anything to help those people it used to be called juvenile diabetes and then type two was adults onset but now kids many many children
45:16 are dealing with type two so it's a big mishmash but they're very two different processes they shouldn't even have the same name anyway done early U reversal of that pancreatic damage to the point where people didn't need to go on insulin and were able to have pancreatic healing we don't have anything that does that except stem cells they at the end of 2023 they had to stop the flow trial because this was a k chronic kidney disease trial um they had to stop it because the control group they needed to be able to ethically give the control group the substance because it was so effective it was so effective at reversing chronic kidney disease and kidney failure that they needed to be able to offer to the control group ethically and not let them continue on their journey of kidney damage so we've
46:03 got this mishmash of studies and then they've done little studies here and they're looking at muscle for instance it's regenerative to muscle it's regenerative to Bone it's regenerative to our joints some of this is in mice some of it's in humans it's regenerative to the testes and to sperm production and motility when you say regenerative to say muscle when people talk about ASM one of the big concerns is that you lose a lot of muscle right it's not true I mean it is true I should let me let me let me rephrase that any dietary intervention or bariatric surgery that induces a severe caloric restriction will lead to about 20 to 35% muscle mass or I should say lean mass loss so this
46:49 is a little bit of a Nuance conversation if you basically put somebody into a self- starvation mode they will lose 20 to 35% of their lean mass lean mass is all the soft tissue in your body so that could be your tendons and your ligaments and your brain and they they Clump it all into one and they're looking at that and saying it's all muscle muscle is a percentage of that muscle isn't all of your lean mass right and so that kind of makes the thing this the studies look bad there I think the other thing that they don't consider in that is pathologic muscle due to metabolic dysfunction will be marbled with fat what does that mean sorry well it's like a fogra when you induce metabolic dysfunction in an
47:35 animal which is what they do in feed lots for cows often and they do it to geese to get their liver fatty you will end up with this fatty infiltrate in the muscle so the muscle goes from being this lovely striad linear beautiful pattern to marbled with with fat and that fatty infiltrate becomes very pathologic to the muscle and it puts the muscle itself into to an insulin resistant state so once the marbling occurs in the muscle it's sort of a chicken and egg downhill situation for the muscle and I do believe very strongly and I've been preaching this for decades that once that process starts and it most often starts in the thighs you've probably seen the pictures of the cross-section of like this is an 80-year-old triathlete and his muscle looks really beautiful and linear and
48:20 then here's you know the average 80-year-old and it's really marbled and the bone loss is significant and the fatty layer on the outside is thicker but what's most important in that photo is the marbling of the muscle we don't want marbled muscle that's the beginning of the end you also end up with fatty liver and you end up with fatty pancreas when you're in this metabolic dysfunction State this downhill Journey that culminates in type two diabetes and so one of the first things that happens when metabolic Health improves whether this is through dietary interventions lifestyle strength training you name it is that fatty infiltrate starts to dissolve these glp1 agonists induce that process of the fat dissolving and so I think that's part of the lean mass loss that they're measuring they're just measuring
49:06 it as lean mass loss but we're also decreasing muscle size because we're having the fatty infiltrate start to burn itself up gp1s have also been shown to peruse the muscle with angiogenesis so we get a vascular Supply so that more amino acids are available to the muscle so when they looked at aging muscle in a human and they gave them gp1 Agonist their muscle became healthier and less pathologic because it started to actually get better blood supply and be infused with the amino acids they were eating in the form of protein so it's and then there's Pathways that are impacted as well that are inducing muscle protein synthesis so gp1s actually induce muscle protein synthesis they don't cause muscle wasting it's the caloric restriction that's causing the
49:52 wasting and they're measuring it somewhat aberant does that make sense that's that's the story I'm trying to weave here yeah so but how how do how can I avoid the choric Restriction if I'm taking a gp1 Agonist like some some magti or impc you don't dose it too high so you don't crush the appetite so the whole goal is to keep people at a dose where they still have an appetite you don't have to crush their appetite with it the way it's being dosed traditionally is they're ramping it up really fast and they're just devastating people's appetite with it and so people go from hungry and starving to I don't want to eat anything and so they don't and then they often will eat less healthy version I'm sorry they'll eat less volume of a poor of a poor diet so they will continue to eat junk food only less of it they will continue to eat the
50:37 crappy Foods they're used to eating only less of it and I've heard Johan Hari on your show talk about this and he a beautiful book that he wrote his magic pill book he talks about that he found himself about five or six months in and he was still just eating the same crap he was just eating less of it and what needs to happen when anybody's on this at any dose is they need to be protecting their muscle with all their might they need to be strength training and they need to be prioritizing their protein macros like those are the two non-negotiables I don't think doctors are always talking about that and I don't think patients are compliant with that if I start micro doing though you know won't I see less of the reward I see less of the cost but I would will I not also get less of the reward the the positive upsides that you've described not if you're doing all the other lifestyle things so like I said it opens this window of opportunity where people
51:22 feel much more in control because there's impacts on the brain that allow people to be much more in control of their choices and of their thought processes and of their even of their obsessions it's very interesting how it works and so people are able to make better choices and I think given that window of opportunity and introducing these lifestyle interventions they're going to be much more open to it so we get them exercising we get them eating better we get them doing all the things you know we get them optimizing their sleep we get them going on walks and meditating and mitigating their stress all of those things are going to improve their metabolic health so it's a two-pronged approach and we don't have to crank the dose we can do this slow and low and some people may need more and some people may need less but the point is is the way it's being done traditionally where it's like you get your script and you walk out of your
52:08 office and you don't get any counseling you don't get any support this is where people are falling into I believe the terrible pits of Despair so this is where the we're seeing the problems and it can be done differently where we're doing a holistic comprehensive approach with a patient I was reading a 2024 study by Lindsay Wang that found diabetic paent Pati taking a zc were 50% less likely to develop bowel cancer compared to those on insulin what does this say and highlight about aek's role in staving of cancer well that's an interesting study because insulin is prog grow so insulin is also a signaling peptide hormone very much like glp1 and it is progrow when you give it to someone so someone being on insulin I believe will
52:53 inherently potentially make them more vul vble to cancer I don't want to say certainly because I don't want to scare everybody because there's a lot of people out there on insulin but it is a progrow hormone now it's prog grow that we get surges of it after we work out which is awesome we want that right we want that anabolic response but in your average person who's not working out and who's not really using their insulin the way they need to they're already swimming in it due to insulin resistance and now they're taking insulin because their pancreas is pooped out that's a mess that's a soup of of things we don't necessarily want happening growing in the body and so that's stud looked at insulin versus gp1s it's not entirely Fair because it's not a it's not a true control group but they there are other data sets coming out that haven't been published yet showing really
53:40 good really hopeful and positive impacts on potentially reducing cancer risk and they're correlative not causitive so we can't put our finger on it and say these these these reduce cancer but they looked at a you know over a million people that were typed diabetics that were on somac glutide and they found a significant reduction in different types of cancer that are obesity related in comparison to the folks who were not taking gp1s and those were the ovar the cancers you don't want the ovarian the pancreatic the colon the types of cancers that are you know you don't come back from readily and so that's very exciting it's not getting a lot of play and it's really really new information so I'm excited just to watch it but it makes sense to me because these on your
54:26 immune cells as well there's gp1 receptors throughout our entire body that's why we're getting the impacts throughout the entire body and I think that the impact that it's having on the overall immunologic millu of an individual is potentially very anti-cancer I mean that study that you cited there I know nothing about um asek and gp1s really but in my even in my sort of you know chimp brain I go yeah because if they lose weight they're less likely to get cancer right no that's totally fair and I think it's both because the way that these are working mechanistically in the body and many of the studies that I've looked at are showing results independent of weight loss even if they don't lose weight then their cancer risk reduces well their the healing and regenerative and
55:11 anti-inflammatory impacts are there regardless of weight loss or not and then you add in weight loss and you add in insulin sensitivity you add in this this healing of the metabolic dysfunction and you're going to significantly reduce risk for everything as well I mean that's a really good point actually CU if has has anyone done a study where they give someone a zenek and even if they don't lose weight inflammation goes down well that's what the select study the trial showed that that cardiovascular trial I just shared with you they just relooked at that information and realize that even independent of weight because that was the big argument everyone had is well of course the cardiovascular benefits will stay or will improve because they're losing weight but they found that even in those who didn't lose weight they still had really good cardiovascular outcomes so yes it that's what that's
55:57 what we're starting to see and so I think they need to start looking at these things more readily but they weren't right they were just looking at like here's morbidly obese people and here's type two diabetics and we're going to crank up the doses and we're going to see what we see but we're starting to get longitudinal data now so that cancer one for instance was looking at uh patient records going way back and so they had over a million you know people in there that they again it's correlative it's not positive but it's showing trends it's starting to show positive Trends and so I think that's what we have to look at and we have to start to flesh that out what about mental health things like depression um and sort of anxiety and these kinds of things you maybe have heard that these are inducing suicidal ideation and
56:43 people are you know getting severely depressed on them and the EU opened a whole Research into it and people are very concerned about this and yet we've got studies showing really positive impacts on depression and anxiety and the thing I will say about that is I'm not saying that people on OIC are not having suicidal ideation but that is a little more nuanced of a conversation because number one when you lose a significant amount of weight very quickly all kinds of things can go wrong you can end up with pancreatitis you can end up with gall stones you can end up with severe depression uh your fat stores your hormones and so you lose your hormones very quickly I've had patients who got tummy tux and came in a few months later and were losing their minds because they literally just had
57:29 all of their hormonal Depot sucked out of their stomach and so there's concern there that this rapid weight loss which again I am not a fan of I not a fan of doing it that way but if you drop somebody's weight significantly you may end up with a very depressed mood State we've also got a bit further to go with that in that many people are using food as their dopamine source and as their crutch or as their coping mechanism and I'm not judging I just understand that to be true you know we all have our advice and if you take that away from someone because they suddenly don't want to eat because we've crushed their appetite with too high a dose then I think that we could end up with a very depressed person in front of us however done correctly and what I'm seeing clinically is people are having really profound benefits in their anxiety and
58:15 their depression in their moods in their cognition um I'm seeing neurode Divergent folks taking it who are becoming much more functional in the in their everyday day-to-day I'm seeing people who are more of a Hermit who don't want to go out in the world suddenly venturing out being more social so there is an impact on the brain and I think it's the anti-inflammatory mechanism I think it's the dope energic system the dopamine Pathways being impacted and again if we're not cranking the dose up I think that we can use these effectively to bolster mood to improve cognition to improve brain Clarity and all of that leads you know an inflamed brain is a depressed brain at the end of the day we have to get that point really clear depression is a brain inflammation
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