Inside England's DARK & TWISTED Magic | British Horror Special On TRS

0:03 They say that lower beings get attracted to places where you're having conversations about them. If you light a candle, then you're going to draw things to it. I've heard there is a certain Indonesian tribe that is an expert in trapping lower beings into physical bottles. And there's a lot of millionaires all over Asia travel to Indonesia to purchase these lower beings. Yeah. is an extremely powerful thing that anyone can do. You're handing someone who isn't trained a load of gun. What's the purpose of calling them? You're tasking them to carry out something that you can't do. People who are drawn to this kind of work risks, misfortunes, accidents, things breaking. It goes terribly wrong.

0:49 You know what Ouija boards are? Yeah. If you're calling a spirit so that you can be really Yeah. The Nazi symbol is an inverted swastika. The one we use in Sanatanhan is one of the most divine symbols. A lot of people in India think Adolf Hitler knew this and twisted it to cause that level of death and suffering in the world. I agree with you. The Nazi regime is worshiping in return for material. I've been chased out of the woods at night by spirits. You could visually see them. Yeah. Most of the time that you're seeing the spirits, they'll be materializing in things like smoke. Seeing something visually is very jolting. It's very difficult to do. I think it's very difficult for them to do and sustain

1:39 them. Horror returns on TRS. This is one of our scariest episodes of the year. You're going to enjoy this one. And if you enjoy all our horror episodes, I do recommend that you check out the prequel to this episode. It was our first conversation that we recorded with Peter Gray. You'll gain a lot of context for the sake of this one. But if you're just here for the thrill, this is a pretty mind-bending episode. I'm not going to say too much. Peter Gay returns on the Remi Show once again. [Music] [Applause]

2:26 back with Peter Gray for episode two. Um, thank you for visiting my life. That's what I want to begin with. That's great. It's it's it's wonderful to talk with you around. How are you, Peter? Really good. Really good. You all right? Yeah. Okay. uh bow down to Babylon at the beginning of this episode and then we'll begin. That's great. Okay. Have you conveyed my respect to her? Yes. Okay. Okay. You think she wanted this episode to happen? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. There is an element of her bringing us together. Yeah. In my eyes, it's just Shaki, which is uh the overall divine feminine. Yeah. I I think that's a great way to think about it, right? Because the khalima I pray to also arises from

3:11 the shi in the same way that the Babylon that you pray to arises from because there at the end of the day there's only one piece of divine femininity. Yeah. Fair to say. Perfect. Okay. Where do we even begin this particular conversation? You tell me. Is there something that we missed out on in the last conversation that you'd like to bring up? No. I'm I think you're doing a a perfect job. So, wherever you'd like to go. Do you want to begin by talking about lower beings a little bit? Because in our world they say that when you actually begin your practice, you do attract the attention of lower beings. Uh because what you're doing in terms of your tantra rituals and your puja releases a lot of energy in that physical space. And where there is a release of energy,

3:57 lower beings also get attracted. Lower beings also get attracted to places where you're having conversations about them. So firstly uh you guys do your thing guys. Uh I know that these conversations attract these entities. What I want to tell the viewers is with the power of the divine you'll always be protected. So just believe in the power that the divine contains. Peter I completely agree with you. We have we have the same thing in our tradition like if you if you light a candle then you're going to draw things to it and it's about whether you are able to move those things forward or whether they become a problem and you become

4:43 parasited for example by these kind of lower entities. So the understanding of lower entities is there and that's why anyone who's engaged in the serious practice of western magic needs to pay very close attention to their spiritual hygiene. So that means performing those practices and rituals which prevent those things getting getting stuck to you. So, um, very simple things like living in a clean space, keeping all of your all of your materials in your household in a clean, calm, um, positive like organized fashion, not living a disorderly life because this will tend to bring more disorder to you

5:29 and then engaging in some of the basic rituals. So before we perform any ritual in western magic, there is a process of purification. Um particularly involving the use of a ritual bath. So you will bathe before you perform ritual. Um and particularly using I use a lot of salt. I use salt water a lot as a way of like cleansing the energetic system and keeping everything absolutely clean. Can you use it every day? You can use that every day. Yeah. I think a a a saltwater bath and performing a a blessing over over the waters before you enter the waters is a is an extremely powerful thing that anyone can do as a way of just keeping themselves keeping themselves clear and clean of these entities.

6:16 Um and then again when one is performing a magical ritual uh a lot of the work that we do if you're doing work within a magical circle in a very high ceremonial fashion you'll be doing a a banishing or a purifying ritual before you even begin to call in any of the entities that you wish to have present with you. So the process of doing this, of repeating this over and over again, day in day out, year in year out, you begin to create barriers to negative forces or forces you do not wish to attract coming in. um and then using discretion. So very often in western

7:01 magic if you're calling a spirit rather than a deity there is a there are a series of challenges that you issue to the spirit so that you can be sure that what you're talking to and what you're working with is what you think it is and not something else impersonating that spirit. So we there are a whole range of protocols that we use there. Okay, lots of tangential questions. Um starting with the magic circle. Is it about the size of this carpet? It can be any size based on how many people you're working with, but um th this would this would

7:46 suffice. It really depends on the amount amount of room that you have. There there are there are there are classical ideas about how large it should be, but in practice it really depends on it really depends on the area that you're working in. Now I'd assume that when you're inviting a daty that's a very difficult process that you probably have to earn. Yeah. Right. And it perhaps would take years to reach that point. Um so you said that these circles are used to call higher spirits. Um, you can use you'd normally use them for working with like a range of spirits, whether they're positive or whether they're hostile. It's the same thing. You're you're creating a a clean space within which you can work, where you know the

8:33 energies are balanced and where you have a clear idea that that where you are and where the spirit is to prevent the spirit um causing problems for you. But what's the purpose of calling them? What's the purpose of calling them? Um well there are a range of things. Um generally you're tasking them to carry out something for you that you can't do. So whether that's bringing you intelligence, whether that's performing a task, whether that's fetching you something, the whole range of like magical possibilities. Understood. Um and you have to be sure that the spirit you're calling is genuinely benevolent. You have to be sure. It doesn't have to be benevolent. Um, but you have to be sure that it's the it is who you're talking to. It's not just a a random

9:19 smaller spirit that's impersonating that spirit. Do you have names of particular spirits in mind when you're calling them? Yes. Yeah. So, are these people that have existed? So, we work with a a range of spirit cataloges in the west that are called grimoirs. A grimoire comes from uh the word grammar. Um, and it's these are books that contain lists of spirits and the the symbol of the spirit and also the magicians kind of loose notes about what these spirits are able to accomplish, what they're what they're what they're able to do, possibilities. Can you give some examples of those uh tasks? Okay. So, those tasks can be anything from um bring me a book to get me a job to find

10:08 me a lover to like show me where something is which is hidden. Um a whole range of possibilities and they're always able to perform those tasks. Generally, they're able to perform the tasks. If they're not, then uh then you go back and you reassess what what went wrong. Are you not able to do this? Do you not have the power to do this? Does the spirit not have the ability to do this? Like you go back and through and and and check these things. It's quite a it's almost a scientific method. Okay. And again, you learned this through books and people and this is something you learn through books and people. It's been 30 years that you've been a practitioner, right? Okay. And you're fairly confident in this process at this point? Yeah, I'm confident in my practices. Are you comfortable with me

10:55 asking you how often you're you engage in this every year? How often I engage in this? So I'll perform um so I'm doing a series of rituals every day. Um so I'll do um I'll do a small ritual in the morning. I'll do um banishing ritual and work with deities in the evening. I'll do my meditation. I'll do a a range of spiritual practices. a major evocation, a major summoning of spirit. For me, I tend to work maybe every three months, I'll do a major spirit work for the sake of some purpose. For the sake of a purpose. Yeah. Is the purpose material? Sometimes it can be material. Yeah. Okay. There's no um there's no moral

11:41 understanding that asking for something material is bad. You know, this that's not in a hierarchy. Okay. Are there celebrities and people who are materially extremely successful who've used these methods to gain material progress? I think it's very difficult to tell. I think very unlikely. Very unlikely. Very unlikely. Why? Why very unlikely? It's difficult. Um yeah, it's difficult. It's time consuming. It's a set of particular specialist skills. Do I do I think that people are achieving things because of spirits? Yes, I think that happens. But I think it's more informal rather than formal ritual work that gets those that gets those results for

12:27 people. So you're one of the few people in the world who knows how to do this in an experienced manner. In my in my experience and my understanding of magicians located around the world, there are very few individuals who are doing this. Very few individuals. There are only ever a very few individuals who do this level of work. What does the trade-off feel? It's dangerous. Um there are risks. There are risks to your health. Um there are risks to your sanity. Um there are risks to your reputation socially. There are um there are risks to your spiritual

13:14 development. It's very easy to be pulled off center when you're doing this kind of work, particularly as most of the work, most of the magical work that's going on in the west is being done by individuals or small groups. This isn't being done necessarily in a community in a larger setting. So people who are drawn to this kind of work are not always balanced individuals. Some of these individuals are crisis individuals. Some of them will end up having mental health issues. Some of them will end up with drug addiction. Some of them end up with like a whole range of problems. Psychosis. Psychosis. Certainly. Pardon me for overly simplifying this,

14:01 but this seems like the beginning of a potential horror movie for people who don't know how to do the ritual correctly. Yes, it certainly can be. Right. Yeah. Exactly what we see in horror movies can happen if you don't know what you're doing. Yeah, I think there are there are genuine risks for performing these kinds of spiritual operations. But will that process of negative outcomes happen because of the spirit being upset with how you've done the process or just being malevolent? On one level, we're food. like uh the way that we react as you see with like a horror movie as an example is that many of these entities respond to human emotions and fear is a very strong emotion and you'll know that certain

14:47 spirits will try to provoke a fear reaction in people in order to feed on that energy. And so it's easy for people to end up in a in a in a parasitic relationship where the entity is taking something from them without the terms being negotiated effectively and from a position of strength. But how will it try to scare you? How it tries to scare you? Any number of ways. um simply simply appearing simply like the the presence of a spirit is something that people are so unaccustomed to. They're so not used to seeing the idea that there are entities out there which are beyond them which are not within human bodies that can

15:34 move through things that can speak through things that can cause problems and misfortunes. These aren't ideas that are common in the west. People have forgotten a lot of this. They they've forgotten that they live in a world filled with spirits. And when they become aware of that, it can be a frightening place. Exactly like a horror movie. Yes, it can be exactly like a horror movie. It'll create incidents at home. Yeah. Yeah. Misfortunes, small accidents, things breaking. Can it cause physical harm? It can cause physical harm through through other means. Yes. Direct directly actual accidents is a good example. Direct direct directly intervening. No, but those accidents

16:20 those accidents happen. But can these entities scratch you or something small like that? I've I've not been scratched by an entity, but I I know that that gets recorded. Okay. Has an entity ever gotten upset with you? Not particularly upset with me. No. I'm very um I'm very careful and marshally minded about what I do. I don't like to leave anything that may be an opening and I'm I do my divination before I do work. I'm very clear about what I'm going to do and I go in. I perform the work and I get out and I close and I make sure that everything is as as clear as possible. But you can't prevent everything. You know, I've I've been I've been I've been chased out of the woods at night by

17:06 spirits. You know, I've had, you know, we we all end up with a few bumps and bruises along the way. Are you comfortable sharing that story? Um, in in general terms? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go for it. So we were working we were working in some some woodlands that we done a significant amount of work in previously in terms of preparing the site and being used to spirit of place and we you mean you were doing rituals? Yeah, we've been doing ritual there for a while. It's always important when you're working somewhere to to see how a place changes through a year and through the times and through the seasons. We'd we'd built a circle, a permanent circle out of white quartz stones that we' laid out in the

17:52 woods. And we turned up organized to do a ritual that we've been planning for some time. And when we arrived, the circle was already being used by entities by entities. Because it's useful to them as well. Because it was useful to them as well. But you could visually see them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are you comfortable talking about what they look like? I'm not going to talk about what they look like, but we uh we realized that this was not the correct time to be performing that work. And we hight tailed it out of the woods. Okay. But they had faces. Yeah. And not pleasant faces. It wasn't the It was clearly not our place to intrude. Okay. And they could have caused you harm. I'm sure they could have caused us harm. Yeah. Could they have killed you? I have

18:39 no idea. Okay. Um, but when you spotted them, they spotted you as well. Yeah. And that's why they chased you out. Yeah, we know. We ran. Okay. We ran. This is a whole group of people running away. A group of people who all had the experience who'd all turned up ready to work. But once you ran away, did they bother you? No, they were fine. They were just doing what they were doing. They just want to be left themselves. Just needed to be left alone. You know, in the previous episode, we were speaking about the Ramayan and the Mahabharat. Actually we've created a series on my YouTube channel about the Ramayan for the western viewer. Okay. So I can't give too much context in this conversation but it contains a lot of material on raas that dwell in forest and I've tried probing a lot of guess on

19:28 what this element of raasa is. It sounds a lot like lower entities uh that are also powerful in their own way. So in my eyes the story that you're relaying sounds like it's a raasa because I've noticed that most of the west assumes that lower entities are only ghosts which are spirits of people who had untimely deaths or who committed suicide. But lower entities are of different types as well. uh and there are some more evolved lower entities which in ancient sanatani texts uh are called raasas. So this seems like these were raasas like powerful entities. Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds it sounds

20:14 appropriate. Have you heard the word raas? No I haven't. No but it sounds parallel. It sounds parallel because in the story of the Ramayan uh they bother the rishies like the sages who are trying to go about their rituals in the forest. Okay. Sounds very bad to me. Yeah. These Yeah. But these things happen and again, you know, when you're when you're performing magic, you expect a degree there's also a degree of resistance that you find. So very often, you know, that if if something's pushing back, if things are are not necessarily flowing and there are obstacles to overcome, sometimes that's a sign that you're you are heading in fact in the right direction. Um, and it is something that you have to overcome. But on this one, I'm very happy to let the spirits

20:59 have their place and do their magic without me trying to evict them. Yeah. What about the ritual you've done at home? You're comfortable doing a ritual alone by yourself. Yeah. Yeah. But you said you run those entities through some tests. Yeah. To filter out the negative ones. Sure. So, um, when you're working with when you're working with an entity in the west, then you'll check several things. You'll check things like you'll check the name. You'll see whether they give you the correct name. You'll check you check the number of the name. If you can do geatria, if you can add up and create the value of the the spirit, you'll ask it questions to see what degree of knowledge it has. Does it know something that you don't know or wouldn't have access to? And you test it

21:46 with these things. You look at the appearance. You look at the signs. And you make sure that they're congruent. and they're congruent with what you what you're looking for. And if it's if if those things don't match up, then something's wrong. So these things appear in the physical form in front of you in terms of getting getting physical manifestation is like a very rare thing. Like it's very difficult to if we lived in a world where you saw spirits in full physical form with your open eyes in normal circumstances, we would live in a very different universe. So most of the time when you're seeing these spirits, they'll be materializing in things like smoke. Smoke's often used to create a something for them to take a form out of or you'll um you'll see them in your mind's eye. So this is a process of

22:32 meditation. Then there are then there's temperature changes, there's sounds, there's smells, there's all of these all of these other things like seeing something visually is very jolting. It's very difficult to do and I think it's very difficult for them to do and sustain because even that requires energy from their part. Yeah. Creates a great deal of energy and when you when you look at the the magical texts which talk a lot about physical entity manifestation um and you look at the incenses they're using, you find that they're very often using things like um the Solenacia alkaloids like they're using a dura incense. They're using like quite powerful psychoactive drugs which have um which are enable you to to to see

23:19 these things manifest but I wouldn't recommend those methods. So there's things that will happen in the room. There are things that will happen in the room like light. Yeah. Light light phenomena is very common. Yeah. And you'll use things you'll use when you're looking at like yes no answers. You'll do things like you'll perform divination asking the spirit questions. you'll use um pendulum for example is a very common method um where you where you're using uh where you're holding a pendulum and you're asking it yes no questions so that you're establishing a dialogue. Um so those kind of those kind of practices and you've had to tell many spirits to leave I not not a great deal. No, I'm pretty

24:08 precise about my working methods. Okay. You you go about your ritual in such a way that you're able to attract only the right spirits. Yeah. I work very methodically and then as you work over time then you tend to find there are a small group of spirits who are particularly immunable to your energy who you work with more. So the most of the of the most famous spirit cataloges we have um there's in England probably the the Goisha also called the Lamejeton also called the lassi of Solomon. This is a list of 72 spirits. Um, and these are these have been used by magicians in the English speaking tradition for hundreds of years. Spirits are limited to geographies. Spirits are limited to

24:54 well, they're not limited to geographies, but it's easier it's easier to go somewhere where there are spirits than to call spirits where there are no spirits. M okay. So if there is a particular if there is a particular working that you wish to do it's kind of easier to go somewhere wild and remote to do it than it is to try and do it in your front room. You know it's and also there are spirits that you don't necessarily want to call into your house fierce ones. Yeah. So that there if there are fierce, volatile and difficult spirits, it would be foolish to invite them to come into your come into your

25:41 private space. Is it the equivalent of meeting a murderer out in the world and then saying, "Hey, I live here, by the way." Yeah, that's a a great example. Yeah. Yeah. Particularly if you have if you have young children or you have other people in the house who could be obsessed or have problems. You don't want to invite that into you. Do you watch horror movies at all? Not really. No. Why not? I just not really interested. Okay. Have you watched movies generally? Yeah. In your life. Have you ever watched a movie where you felt like, hey, they're talking about my kind of world? Um there's there's a modern film called um A Dark Song. Um there are some problems with it, but that's quite an interesting representation of a of a

26:28 modern ceremonial um angelic um angelic summoning ritual. I think that has that that could give you a flavor. Okay. So, when you're calling these spirits to you, um I asked you earlier if they were malevolent or benevolent, and you said that neither. It's like a spectrum. You can't bracket things. Yeah. I I don't like to bracket things. I mean, there are certainly spirits that are um that are dangerous, you know. There there are spirits that you But it's like all of these things like is a knife good or bad? Like it's it's you know, is a gun good or bad? It's just it's natural. Yeah. Is a car good or bad? Is a dagger good or bad? Exactly. Exactly. And that that

27:14 understanding of the universe that there are there are all of these forces in it and they're all doing their thing and they're all doing it in their place. The question is is this is this the right place for a tiger to be or is this the wrong place for a tiger to be? Okay. But it is the equivalent of calling a lion or tiger into your vicinity. Yes, it certainly can be. Um so say you go about a task with them. How does your relationship with that entity develop then? Okay. So they become familiar to you doing to to you calling them. So they know who you are. But at the same time what you do in um what you do traditionally in western magic is you take the form of a previous

28:01 saint within your life. So in the western tradition um it's Solomon um from the Bible because the story of Solomon is that in the construction of Solomon's temple he called the spirits and he tasked them to build the temple for him. So many of our magic books go back to the example of the way that Solomon worked and they repeat that pattern. So when the magician is in the circle and doing their work, they dress in that fashion and they present themselves to the spirit as that figure of spiritual authority. So it's not I that commands the spirit. It is it's Solomon who is talking to the spirit. And you feel the

28:47 presence of St. Solomon. You can do that. Yes. Do you feel it? Yeah. I use a a different method that I won't talk about here, but but using those ancestor figures, using those powerful ancestor figures is one way that we work. Have you ever felt any amount of fear? Yeah. I think fear is natural and healthy even in these situations. Yeah. Even today. Yeah. Yeah. It's absolutely necessary. What What makes you feel fear? Do you feel nervous before you do a podcast? Do you perform better if you're nervous? unders. You're sharper in the head. You're sharper like it's your if your adrenal system is firing and you're able to deal with the the fight or flight reflex and you're able to channel that in the correct direction, then it's a valuable thing. Do you mind that I'm

29:34 probing this? No. No, not at all. It's all completely fine. I'm wondering why Goddess Babylon wants this material out there in in my eyes when I've spoken about lower entities on the show. Sure. The downside is that it's attracted them into my life a little bit. The upside is that people get fascinated by the person. Yeah. So again, while we're going to continue this conversation, I would like to point viewers to the previous conversation we did because I think that episode one would set the context for everything we're speaking about right now and further. And that's what I think Goddess Babylon wants. That people need to know much more about the context that you and me are coming from rather than just this one isolated part of this very vast subject. Fair to say. Fair to say. Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. In

30:21 saying that, let's dive back into what we were talking about. Um, say once the ritual is over Mhm. do they choose to stay around you because they like you? I hope not. Okay. No, I mean, well, you can you can you can bind spirits like you can but you're keeping them you're keeping them somewhere safe, right? When you create a spirit home and you create a spirit trap, if you put a spirit if you put a spirit in a bottle. Yeah. So, we go back to the Aladdin example, like if it's in the bottle or the lamp. Yeah. And the the lamp is somewhere safe, then it can stay in the lamp. Okay. And it can be happy there or it can be or it

31:07 can be held there. But it's it's a relationship where the magician has to be confident with their authority over the spirit, their ability to dominate the spirit if necessary. And also very often there's an understanding that the work we're doing is going towards the evolution of the spirit. This is very often a way that people people people have thought about this that when one works with a lower spirit with an elemental spirit that you're you're helping bring it up to another level in the same way that we have a relationship with with with domestic animals. You know, you

31:54 have a relationship with your with your pet dog. Like you're helping your dog, your dog is helping you. you understand where things are. It's part it's now part of the human tribe. It's part of the part of the tribe. And you can do that with the spirits as well that that you can help them continue on their path of development over time. That's what's in it for them. Yeah. Or you can just trap them. Or you can just trap them. Yeah. But as we know from all the stories, they don't always stay trapped. Okay. Um, a friend of mine who's deeply into tantric practices has spoken to me about Indonesia. And there is a certain Indonesian tribe or a bunch of them, I'm not too sure, that uh is an expert in

32:42 what they call animism, which is exactly this. Yeah. Trapping beings, lower beings into physical pots or bottles. Yeah. And these sell for a lot of money. So what is said is that there's this is just conjecture. This is what I've heard the world of spiritual gossip that there's a lot of millionaires and billionaires all over Asia who travel to Indonesia to purchase these exact lower beings. But it's extremely dangerous. Yeah. Why is it extremely dangerous? Because you're handing someone who isn't trained a loaded gun.

33:27 You're basically selling a pet tiger. You're selling a pet tiger. Yeah. And that doesn't always end well. [Music] Apparently, it's used by politicians as well. I'm sure it is. Yeah. Right. You think politicians from all over the world? I think I know I know a lot of people who've traveled to Asia for these kind of um these kind of services like I know people within my field who travel to Thailand to buy these kind of amulets and to work with these kind of amulets and to work with these kind of spirits. It's it happens everywhere. So, even if one wishes to work with these spirits, you either become a

34:12 30-year veteran and understand what you're doing in detail through practice, and I'm sure there's baby steps involved. Yeah. Or you just buy one for a lot of money, but then the risk is that the pet tiger might want to eat you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would say leave it to the zookeepers or become one yourself. Or become one. Yeah. H I also feel that when it comes to knowledge, vidya in our culture, if you truly seek vidya, knowledge, you're willing to chase it with hard work, it'll find a way to become accessible to you. Yeah. And I'm sure anyone who's watching this podcast until this point is fascinated by this topic. There's a bunch of people who want to chase this vidya. So what's your advice to them?

34:59 Don't um don't unless it's something which don't unless it's something which you have to do. If there's if if this is your path, if this is the thing that you have to do that speaks to you, then pursue it. But if it's something you're just a bit curious about, something which like you think sounds might give you your ego a boost, this is this is not the work that you should be doing. There are simpler, safer things you can do. To be aware that this world is out there, I think is a valuable thing to understand that the world contains all of these elements. But for the majority of people who are householders like it's

35:48 do your mantra, do your meditation, do your puja, do your simple practices and find balance in that you know live live that life because the number of people who are involved with magic are very few. They're very far between. And even in that group of people, there are many of them who it goes terribly wrongful. So yeah, beware. Magic can easily backfire if you don't know what you're doing. Yeah, absolutely. You're dealing with nuclear material. You're dealing with nuclear material. [Music] You know, I asked you earlier about if these spirits could cause harm, and you said that maybe not directly physically, but in other ways. They'll cause accidents,

36:34 like road accidents or road accidents. They'll cause like people to come into your life who will do you harm like they'll they'll use they'll use they'll use the tools that are around them to create these impacts. So, they can affect reality as well. They can react. Yeah, absolutely. There is a really scary story that I heard like it's probably the one so-called horror story based on a true event which actually haunted me very deeply. It's so intense that I may not even want to repeat it on the show. So, sorry guys, but I'm not going to repeat it in detail, but I'll give you an element of it. Um, basically someone had got their hands on one of these

37:19 Indonesian pots which contained a couple of demons. His wife who was pregnant discouraged that person from keeping it and he didn't know what he was doing. It just landed up with him. So they spoke a lot at home about getting rid of it. And uh the first night uh when they slept, they both had the same dream of the two spirits inside that pot telling them that um do not throw us away. We will come for you if you think of throwing us away. The second day they discussed this again, argued about it, whether wife really wanted to get rid of it because she understood what they're dealing with. And that night they both dreamt of the two spirits feeding on a baby.

38:04 And when they woke up, the wife had faced a miscarriage and her bed was full of blood. But this is one story that I've heard of these things causing physical harm. And the reason I'm putting this out is to put out a cautionary tale. Do not get into this realm. It's okay to have knowledge. It's okay to be fascinated by this. And I've removed much scarier layers of this story to soften it up for the end viewer. But how do you think they caused harm in this case? I couldn't tell you the the the physics of it, but these things happen particularly as you said like young children like pregnancy like these are these are times that you shouldn't

38:50 be anywhere near any of this. You shouldn't be doing that. Yeah. Don't don't do it. It's the same thing as like you shouldn't have friends who are who are criminals because if you have friends who are criminals then they will drag you into their criminal world. You will know bad people and if you know bad people sometimes bad things happen. So don't do it. Don't don't get involved with that. But this is a this is a small this is a small percentage of the amount of spirit work that's done. And many of these spirits that are particularly dangerous, you would be foolish to try to work with them. Even in your case,

39:35 even in my case, like I like there are spirits. There are spirits that are murderers. Do you want to have friends with murderers? I don't want to have friends with murderers. When you say that there's spirits who are murderers, are you talking about a human being that's passed away or you're talking about an ancient spirit that's been a murderer traditionally? It's difficult to tell, but it could be it could be either of those possibilities. Some of them some of them are dead humans. Yeah, absolutely. Some of them are dead humans. Have you worked with dead humans? Yeah, I've worked with dead humans. Why? Because not all dead humans are bad humans. Not all dead humans are bad humans. Some of them are wise people who you knew. Not people who I know. No. But how did you know that you're supposed to work with a particular dead human?

40:21 Well, it through a process of divination, of working out what you're trying to do, and of talking to a spirit and discovering that a spirit, for example, was previously a human being. Okay. Are these iconic historical figures? Not giant historical figures. No. Someone who just got lost in Somebody got lost in the way. All right. Okay. Okay. But in these spirit circles where you invite these spirits um you're doing it in a very controlled manner. You're doing it in a very controlled manner. Yeah. Uh but you are still calling a lion or a tiger and you need to know how to handle it. Yeah. You know what Ouija boards are? Yes. That's an uncontrolled way of doing the same thing, right? Yes, it is. Yeah. Yeah. So

41:07 what you're doing is a controlled portal. I'm doing a more controlled method of that. Yes. But that's an uncontrolled portal. That's Yeah. that I think it's very foolish to um try to invite in any any spirits which are hanging around. This is it's a foolish thing to do. It's foolish. Okay. Um and that's how people get into trouble. Yeah. In inviting misfortune into your life. You're inviting you're you're just Yeah. You're being you're being extremely random. You're you're opening a front door and you're letting anyone who's on the street walk into your house. This is a very bad idea. This is a very bad idea. Like if you're doing this kind of work like so Ouija is

41:54 um Ouija is very popular because it's uh it's a quick and easy way to do it. You could use a Ouija board in a magical ritual. You could have a board in your circle and you can use it to communicate to ask questions. But if you haven't established your parameters, if you haven't set up your your wards, your your guards, you you're and you're going into it empty, that's just foolish. Just foolish. If you want to talk to the dead and if people particularly want to talk to their personal dead people in their line, that's much more easy to do with a a picture of someone who's died that you keep in your house that you burn a candle in front of, that you offer water to, that you that you talk to, who's within your family line. That's that's a

42:40 safe thing to do. They might visit you in your dreams. They may visit you in your dreams. You have a relationship already, and for most people, that's the kind of work that they need to do. Yeah. Um we recently had a powerful psychic on the show and uh she spoke about something called the ancestral plane. So again in Sanatan we believe in reincarnation. Uh which means that once you pass away you're reborn in a body in the future. But after the time that you pass away your soul has an option of staying near your loved ones and just looking over them. Yeah. My question to the psychic was, "Why would my grandmom still want to be around?" And she said that it's not your decision. Maybe she just loved you that much and how if you have a

43:25 child, you see the child going to school. You want to just go and drop off the kid and make sure it's okay while the kid goes to school. It's something like that but in the spirit world like I know my grandmom's protecting me all the time while you know I'm dealing with these kind of conversations and dealing with the process of fame. I know that I've got protection for my ancestors. Um you do you have anything to say about the ancestral plane? Um I completely agree with you. I think most people's work is most people's spirit work is should really be limited to that kind of ancestor work with their their immediate dead with their their parents and grandparents and their and their family line. I think it's a very it's a very safe thing to do because these people love and care for you and it can be done

44:12 in a very a very simple and easy way. This is a spiritual uh purpose of your family. Yeah. Like even after your family members pass away, they are with you if you really wish for them to be with you. Yeah. And you can invite them back. Yes. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So you said that all you do is light a candle in front of the photo. Lighting a candle, having a photograph, like making making an offering of like water or food. It's like this is this is what people have done in human culture traditionally forever. whether you're doing that kind of um whe whether you're doing that kind of ritual on um on their birthday or the anniversary of their

44:57 death, you know, it's it's a very useful thing to do. I think everyone who's everyone who wishes to work like this if they have a good family relationship to do those simple things to have have the pictures as a momento mores so that they remember them and to offer them light and to offer them water and and to just talk to them. I think that's that's a great thing to do in those circles. Do you also invite higher beings? Yes, you can invite higher beings like angels. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um we have somewhat of a concept of angels in sanadham. Uh it's called yakshakar and gandharvas. Gandharvas are related to music. I don't exactly know

45:44 what yakshinar are related to but it's they're basically benevolent higher beings. Um, how does the purpose of a benevolent higher being vary from that of a lower being? And are all higher beings benevolent? Again, you know, we're we're we're back to the tigers. It's just their nature to be more evolved. It's their nature and it's how they respond to you. like how how a spirit responds to me and how a spirit responds to you will differ. You know, we will have we'll have different interactions in the same way that you have different friends. You meet people and you immediately like have a vibe from them. You can tell whether you get

46:31 on with them or whether you don't get on with them, right? There's some people you meet and you're just like, I I can't stand this person. I I can't be around. The same thing with spirits. Exactly the same thing. It depends what you're doing. So, have any of the spirits that you've invited visited you in your dreams and still try to further conversation? Yeah, you always get like I think keeping a keeping a track on your dreams is very important because you'll often get messages through dreams. Like what like what do what do those spirits want from you? They want a conversation or something. Yeah, generally they generally they want a conversation. Sometimes they want particular things. Sometimes they want something done for them and then you're negotiating. If you do X, what is it that I can what is it that I can offer you that would be appropriate? So, you

47:18 perform a ritual and the spirit will come to you in a dream and it'll say and you'll say, well, is there anything that I've done here which I could improve? So, a classic thing would be like the incense. So if I'm if I'm meeting a spirit for the first time and I'm making an offering of an incense, I use something very general like a like frankincense for example is like a good allpurpose incense. This is a good spiritual incense for clearing the place. And you'll make an offering of the incense and you allow the spirit to use that. But when you have a sense of the spirit, it will come back and it will say actually I would prefer it if you used this. if you offer this, we can we can establish a a better connection if we do that. And so you can begin to

48:05 make those make those agreements, make those packs. Have you ever had to battle a doubt? I think that when you're when you're starting to practice magic and you're beginning to practice magic, it's very common for people to be filled with negative thoughts, to be filled with ideas that maybe this won't work or maybe maybe they're skeptical or those kind of difficulties, those those small like like kind of niggling niggling things that that that put you off what you're doing. But once you've had once you've had a solid experience and you have something you can say, I understand that this reality exists and I'm I I can I can interact with it. I can change it. It can it can change me. Then it's much

48:52 easier. While I appreciate what you said because you shed more light on your world, I was asking you about whether or not you've had a fight with these spirits. I have had to defend my circle from spirits, but I'm a marshally minded individual. And if I'm holding a magical implement, whether that's a sword or a knife or a wand, I know how to use it. So I have I have no problem in facing down conflict if that's what's required. But generally, it's just testing. It's

49:38 testing. Just testing. They're trying to see your toughness. Trying to see. They're trying to scare you. They're trying to see is this can I can I can I gain the upper hand here. Okay. I'm very surprised that you've not seen the Harry Potter films because honestly like a friend of mine who had spoken to me about Western magic long ago had told me that the Harry Potter films are loosely based on the truth. Oh, I'm I'm sure that that JK Rowling has done her research and that there are there are many elements in it. I would argue that JK Rowling has done her practice as well. We we'd have to have to ask JK when you when you get her on

50:23 the podcast. She's based out of uh Britain, right? Yes. Scotland. Yeah. Scotland. Yeah. JK Rowling. You're invited to the Reni Show. But I I know for a fact that she's got some knowledge about this world. I'm sure. Yeah. She made magic mainstream in so many ways. Yes, she did. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. What does your community say about the Harry Potter series? I think um I've I've seen over the years that there have been many cultural artifacts which have created a a rush of people towards magic. So previously in the 1980s there were there were movies that made people very excited about witchcraft. Um, like for example, like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, like the whole

51:10 group of girls got very excited about the idea of witchcraft and magic having watched those kind of things. So, it's quite normal that when something like this happens, like Harry Potter happens, that there's a there's a rush of excitement and that people people come in and are are interested in in seeing what that world is because we live in such a secular society. We live in a society that that is so materialistic that is so limited in terms of people's spiritual growth that when they're exposed to a story when they're exposed to those kind of ideas then then suddenly something opens in them and they're like I want to know more about this like I want my world to be enchanted. I want my world to be full

51:56 of magic, you know, whether that's reading like Lord of the Rings or like um The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe or, you know, any of these any of these big alternative fantasy worlds, I think particularly particularly amongst kids and teenagers, they're they're much closer to that world. They haven't closed down to the extent that many adults have. They haven't been broken by the world. They still have a sense of like possibility and growth and what if and you know maybe they're still feeling things. Yeah. That's why they say kids can see things that adults can't. Yeah. Definitely. Right. Yeah. And then the pain of life takes that ability away from you. Yeah. Yeah. One of the

52:42 blessings of being born in India in that geography is that generally speaking you'll find people around you who are either completely open themselves or who direct you towards openness. Uh and I see this in some other cultures like I have some Ghanaian friends. Yeah. I have some Arabic friends. I have some South American friends. I see this in like you know the tropical belt culture a little more. Um again taking nothing away from the west. I'm I'm deeply fascinated. No, you're com you're completely correct. Um, we were we I don't think I don't think everyone always realizes quite how secular and irreligious England is. I mean, our our religious beliefs here,

53:27 our church, it it it's really broken. Like, it's not part of people's lives anymore anymore. They don't they don't have even the basic stories of the Bible. They don't know, you know, you say Adam and Eve to a class of of children and like most of them don't even know the Adam and Eve story which is like incredible. I kind of feel bad for pe some of the people born in the west in Christian families because they grew up with a sense of not wanting to have conversation about religion because of the negative connotation that it holds. I don't know why. Like I landed in Manchester and the immigration officer asked me about my podcast. She's like why are you here? I said to podcast. She what's your podcast about?

54:13 I said everything under the sun other than politics. I said that as a joke and she's like yeah and I hope also religion. And I'm like why? It's such a it it can be a beautiful topic. Then I realized that I'm speaking from an Indian perspective where for me religion is sanatan and Buddhism and Islam and Christianity and for her it it's like more of a binary. Yeah. Right. Um what I sense in Europe is that the world has so much to learn from this region, this geography. But the one thing that many Europeans can learn is to find their faith in the divine once again. Yes. I feel it creates some level of anchoring which you have. We're talking about goddess Babylon. We're

54:59 talking about all these topics uh which you know the Arab world has, which my world has, which like Southeast Asia has, South America, all these places. But people in Europe especially, even more so than America, have forgotten the divine. Yeah, very much so. And it's causing mental health problems. Yeah. Right. Have I said something offensive or wrong? No. No, you're completely correct. You're completely correct. Um we we live in a world which is so devoid of that understanding and uh it's something that you find people who who are drawn to magic and witchcraft like [Music] are they're also freer to explore those things because they haven't been limited by it. They're not coming in also with like a a negative framing of these ideas

55:46 from Christianity. But there's also just that that lack of spirituality in the culture. And I think it broke with the world wars. Yeah. What do you mean? I think World War I and World War II, the the death and slaughter and the cultural change that happened, people just abandoned Christianity and that faith here like it just it just no longer made sense to people after seeing that level of death. Yeah. Can we speak about the world wars a little bit? Yeah. Um, we speak about the world wars a lot in India, but I've noticed that in this part of the world, of course, it's spoken about so much more because it's recent history. Um, do you think that there were elements of these lower or higher entities involved in the world wars? I think if we live in a world filled with

56:33 spirits, which is which is my model of the universe, then it's inevitable that there is a spiritual component to these things. Yeah, absolutely. Because I've heard some spiritualists say on this show that uh Adolf Hitler was guided by a lower entity trying to create demonic chaos in this world. Yeah, I think he was a an extremely damaged individual um taking a huge amount of methamphetamines on top of his damaged personality which wasn't really helping things. And they were they were again dealing with this this problem of a broken Christianity.

57:18 And he reach he he did reach back to some form of a pagan past. A very you know a very limited understanding of a Germanic pagan past. But that was certainly an element that was present within within the Nazi party. You know the Nazi symbol, the swastika. Yeah. The swastika u that the Nazis use is an inverted swastika. Yeah. Yeah. The one we use in sanatan dharm is one of the most divine symbols. Yeah. And it's supposed to divonize a space. Yeah. But this is an inverted swastika. Very similar to an inverted cross. Yeah. Which is a symbol of Satan. Yes. Yeah. I believe. Uh it looks like a sword instead of a cross.

58:04 So they've taken a very powerful Hindu symbol and turned it around. Yeah. where to the degree where I know a lot of people in India who think twice before getting swastika tattoos because they don't want a global audience or global person to to misinterpret. Exactly. Because this in the modern day unfortunately can be confused to be a racist symbol. Yeah. Yeah. Right. I I I agree with you. I think I think the swastika is a is a beautiful symbol. Like I really love the swastika, but it's so difficult in our culture because of the the damage that's been done to it. And you see you see that it was used

58:49 um through the 1940s like globally everyone was using this symbol and then because of the the because of the Nazi regime it was being given such a bad reputation. Yeah. I mean you know in uh sanatani tantra um yantras and symbols basically for us yantras are of different kinds but symbols are one of the key yantras and um a swastika contains a lot of power I am pretty sure that Adolf Hitler knew this spiritual nuance and twisted it around to uh malevolently affect the world to affect the world in a malevolent manner. Yeah. And cause that level of death Yeah. and

59:36 chaos and suffering in the world. Yeah. Um but you know it's it's one of those topics that people are so edgy about like that's not discussed. Yeah. Like I'm pretty sure that even through this conversation people are going to pick up clips and take it out of context and then I'll have to do some firefighting. It's just the nature of the internet. But it's important to have these conversations because in my eyes in so many ways I'm trying to learn so much more from you. But I also represent my own culture. And one of the most beautiful aspects of my culture has been demonized by a human being who wasn't in his senses. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. While we're speaking about this particular human being, I think at this point in the podcast, it's a great place to also bring in Shatan or Satan. Sure.

1:00:26 Um, I don't even know where to begin this topic because I actually don't like talking about it honestly. I think it's a low frequency conversation and whenever I speak about the Illuminati or Satan on my show, I almost feel a drain of energy. Yeah. And I know that's not something I want to dive deep into. So, I'd love for you to give me a quick fire. Okay. We'll do the quick one on this because this is easy to do. Okay. So um Satanism and was can only be understood as an inversion of Christianity. So it's a Christian it's it's something that Christianity to a large extent created and then projected onto all of its enemies and projected to all of its

1:01:11 enemies. Yeah. So the idea that um if we look at like the classical images of like the devil or Satan with like with horns and like hairy and all of these things, this is this is in many ways a pagan deity. This is many ways a lot of people when they when they were looking at this in the Victorian kind of period, they were very interested in Pan. In what? The Greek god Pan like Peter Pan. Um yeah, the second part, Pan. So Pan is like a he was quite a small deity at the time, but he was the god of like um wine and sex and fertility and like you know like u a little bit of misrule. Misrule. Misrule. Yeah. And so all of

1:01:58 these aspects of like um all of these aspects these more animalbased aspects that Christianity was opposed to lust oriented. Yeah. They all get got pushed into this this this figure that they created called Satan. Because when you look in the Bible, it's it it's a very mixed story about Satan and about Lucifer. It's the same person or same thing that they're talking about. They're talking about a range of different things from a range of different stories and traditions that have all been put under one name, one label. and they've said this is the bad thing. Anyone who's not us is this thing and this thing is where we all put all

1:02:43 of the bad ideas. So if you look um if you think about the the conscious and the unconscious, if you want to think about the mind like that, all of the bad things get pushed into this dark place. And this dark place has a label on it called Satan saying don't touch, don't go here. And many good things were pushed here. not just bad things but there were good things that were pushed here as well. Um particularly the body and the lessons and the truths within the body because Christianity when it began was very body and life denying. There was a lot of um there were a lot of talk about um celibacy for both men and women. The body was seen as a bad thing. Even having children was seen as being a bad thing. like there was a it

1:03:29 was quite quite a death cult when when early Christianity started first couple of centuries of Christianity. So the devil took on all of the negative characteristics that the culture didn't want to look at. And then this figure became bigger and bigger. And as the Christian church began to show itself as being not what it said it was, that it was doing bad things. Many, many atrocities carried out in the world of the Christian church. Some people inevitably look at the other side of the coin and they say the Christian God is not someone I want to deal with. I will I'll deal with this other thing because this this figure opposes Christianity. And Christianity at the

1:04:14 same time benefited from creating this evil figure and saying anyone who is our enemy they're this no there's nothing good in this. This is kind of the cultural impact that created this figure. So it's really it's really a projection, a shadow of Christianity that they used to control people. But Satanism, the practice of Satan worship, you can break down quite quickly. So particularly um in terms of the written records for what we have um the French really invented Satanism like Satanism was something that you

1:05:00 found um around the French courts. Um and there was uh there were a couple of famous um there were a couple of famous historical events that that revealed that there were people who were um who were killing children and performing abortions and poisonings. And so there was a there was a a a group of people around um the court of um the court of Louis with the um the affair of the poisons. If you want to Google something for Satanism, The Affair of the Poisons is where you find it where there was an abortionist called um um Madame uh Montispan who had a circle of people and she was she was um she was drawing them

1:05:45 in and this still happens today. She drawing them in to um participate in um in black masses in these acts of ritualized evil. And we see this today whether you're whether you're PD or Jeffrey Epstein. If you can if you can if you can compromise people in positions of power by making them participate in a bad thing, you can blackmail them. And so that was that was pretty much what what what Satanism was then. Very small thing, very elite level. Um at the same time there were people persecuted throughout the society who were called Satanists. Some of them were burned as witches. you know, that's part of the story of the witchcraft trials. So, that was Satanism

1:06:33 um classically, the classical period of Satanism where you take the high Catholic mass and you flip it, you turn it on its head. There's also a deity that goes by the name of Satan. And so, there's a deity that's called Satan that they are that they are worshiping in return for material things and power. But this is a real deity. It's as real as you want it to be. There's clearly a it's clearly become something. So yes, it's clear it's clearly a thing. Can collective consciousness of many human beings over centuries create a deity? Yeah, completely. That's what's happened here. Yeah, it's that kind of thing. It's an agreor would be the technical term for it. It's it's a a deity that's been produced by a lot of people um a lot of people coming together and

1:07:18 creating an image and creating a cult. But Satanism is now much more confusing because this classical Satanism which is what we we often think about black matters blah in the 19 um in the 1960s in America um there's a gentleman called Anton Levy who founded the church of Satan. Now, his form of Satanism, which is uh the most popular form of Satanism you will find today, is really quite atheistic and materialistic. And it's deliberately poking fun and mocking people

1:08:04 um for for rejecting the body, for rejecting the pleasures of life. So if you look online and you search Satanists, you'll very often find people who are members of the church of Satan and many of them are atheists. They have no spiritual belief at all, but they like they like the aesthetic. They like to dress up in a certain way. They like to wear certain symbols. Some of them are practicing magic, but the majority of them aren't. And the majority of them are more like um they're more like American libertarians. Yeah. uh like the like the far the far Republican party like the far right of the Republican party like absolute freedom. So like they'd be they'd be in

1:08:50 favor of no gun control. They're in favor of alcohol. They're in favor of sex. They're in favor of all of these things. So it's in some ways it's quite life affirming and they're not they're often not bad people. I know I know quite a few of these people. They're fine, but it's very modern and it's a little superficial. So that was that was the modern Satanism that occurred in the 60s and that's that's that's the dominant flavor of modern Satanism if you look at like if if you're looking at at practitioners but because this group was so um materialistic and really quite atheistic. A lot of them were atheists. There was a reaction to that and there is a smaller group of people who are

1:09:36 theistic Satanists. So they're people who worship Satan as a deity. And again, there are a range of people here, but most of them most of them are are actually not bad people at all. They're people who are in who are just um ultra liberal, ultra libertarian. They're not doing awful awful things. And then we have a third level. So the third level is what you'll find if you get your information from from Twitter and YouTube. Yeah. And this is where there's an idea that there is an elite group of bad people who are doing bad things because they are Satanists. Illuminati. The Illuminati. Like all of that

1:10:21 nonsense that that we as magical practitioners then have to deal with because we're we're placed in that category. I mean, yeah, that's that's a

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