The Fat Burning Expert: The REAL Reason You’re Not Losing Belly Fat (and How To Fix It Fast!)

0:00 I asked my audience for their 15 most popular unanswered questions about how to lose fat or to gain muscle mass. The first one, how do I lose weight fast? But you just answered that. >> Yeah. >> The second one is creatine this miracle thing that everybody should be taking. >> There's almost nothing creatine can't do. >> Wow, some statement. >> Next, is there any harm in eating too much protein? >> It's rare and in fact, almost everybody who has some degree of an issue with their body fat levels under consume protein. >> My next question is about PCOS. What would you say to a woman struggling with PCOS in terms of dietary prescription? >> That's a damn good question, man. Can I go into detail with this because a lot of people are very misinformed about this stuff. >> The floor is yours. >> Okay, so Alan Araggon has been using science to help elite athletes unlock

0:46 peak performance for over 30 years. >> And now he's breaking down the nutrition and training strategies that actually deliver results. It's important to take an evidence-based approach to diet, nutrition, training, supplementation, because if you don't, then you end up wasting a lot of time. >> So, let's start with protein. So, how much protein should I be eating to gain muscle? >> What is your goal body weight? It's >> around 90. >> Take 90 and multiply that by there's your protein target. >> What about calorie restriction? I've heard you say that 10 or 20% of your calories can come from pretty much anything you want. >> Literally anything. >> So, I could eat McDonald's or something and I could still lose weight theoretically. >> That's true. And this is reflected in research along with diet breaks. That's one of the tactics that you can use for long-term adherence to a plan. And I'll explain how. >> I also want to talk about the ketogenic

1:31 diet, menopause, fasting, sugars, and this >> that that always gets me, man. That that picture always gets me. >> Why? >> I used to drink heavily. I was overworked and trying to be the best father and the best husband. And it got real bad. I just needed to stop and I did. How? >> I just >> Wow. Really? >> Yes. >> I see messages all the time in the comments section that some of you didn't realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you could do me a favor and double check if you're a subscriber to this channel, that would be tremendously appreciated. It's the simple, it's the free thing that anybody that watches this show frequently can do to help us here to keep everything going in this show in the trajectory it's on. So please do double check if you've subscribed and uh thank you so much because a strange way

2:17 you are you're part of our history and you're on this journey with us and I appreciate you for that. So yeah, thank you Alan. Why should I listen to you? What have you done in your career over the last 30 years that has given you the knowledge, the information, the wisdom that you have on nutrition, dieting, fitness, etc. Who is Allan? >> I have over 30 years of experience in the field. The first 10 years consisted of personal training. The second decade of my career was nutritional counseling. Just counseling people on on how to eat, what to eat. And then the third decade of my career, which actually running on

3:03 13 years now, is the research and education side. My colleagues and I, we in quotes do the science. We published the science. I've been a part of 30 30 publications, >> 30 studies. >> Yeah. Yeah. A combination of narrative reviews, systematic reviews, and metaanalyses and randomized control trials. >> And how many people have you worked with directly over the last 30 years in terms of in your your nutritional counseling role, but also as a as a trainer? Individually, it's it's triple digits. Groups potentially quadruple. Yeah. >> And some of those people that you've worked with over the years are fairly

3:49 high-profile. >> Yeah. Individuals. >> Yeah. Probably my most interesting story is getting an email from Steve Austin and and the wrestling fans know him as Stone Cold Steve Austin. In so many words, he said, "Hey, Allan, I've been I've been doing my research and you're you're the guy, so I want to work with you. Um, I know that you mentioned that you're not working with clients, but could you please make an exception for me? Here's my number." >> What did you do with him with Stone? I helped him get his nutrition right for his uh in quotes uh come back to television. It was mainly focused on primarily fat

4:34 loss. >> And you worked with Derek Fischer as well, who's the five-time NBA champion. >> Yes. >> The longtime LA Lakers player. >> Yeah. >> And Pete Sampas, the former world number one tennis player and grand slam champion. >> Yeah. Pete Sandra. That's right. When people come to you and when they message you and DM you, there's probably similar themes. Similar themes as to like what they're trying to accomplish and what their goal is. If you just from the top of your head had to state the most popular themes that people are trying to accomplish. What are they? >> How to improve body composition. >> What does that mean? >> How to lose fat and or gain muscle. One of the things that I'm I'm particularly intrigued by which kind of dubtales into both of those subjects of

5:20 fat and muscle gain is the subject of protein and um because there's been so much said about protein. You know, when I was growing up, they said you have to have protein right after you eat your meal. You have to have this much protein. You have to have it before you eat your meal. It doesn't matter when you have it. So, I want to do a bit of myth busting on the subject of protein. What are what are the biggest myths that people currently believe about protein consumption? >> The biggest myth is that they have the hierarchy of importance all screwed up. Like everybody's worried about how much protein per meal you need to have for this or that goal. When do you need to time protein relative to the training bout or waking or sleeping or all that stuff. The main thing they need to be

6:05 focused on is how much protein do they need to eat by the end of the day? Because when you hit that goal, you've basically won the whole game. The the relative placement, the distribution, and the doses of the protein, the timing of it, oh man, it rarely matters. It rarely matters beyond getting that protein in in a way that's comfortable and convenient for you. and in such a way that you can stick to in the long term. Some people are more like grazers, some people are more like gorgers. They're both fine as long as you hit the total by the end of the day. So the hierarchy is of utmost importance. Get your total daily protein. >> And then of secondary importance would

6:52 be what is the distribution of the constituent doses of that protein total through the day. And then a third importance down here is like when specifically are you supposed to time that protein around the the the training bout. So So yeah, the what the way that I put it is like this. The daily total for protein that is the cake. The distribution of the doses through the day that's the icing on the cake. And it's a very thin layer of icing. >> And how do we know that? How do we know that it doesn't really matter what time you have the protein and that the most important thing is just making sure you get the protein? >> That's a great question. The reason that we know that distribution doesn't matter as much as the total is through a couple

7:39 lines of evidence that I can think of. So there's Yasuda who who compared a three meal model with a two meal model. And the three meal model had superior effects for uh for muscle gain. But there is a study that was just published gosh within the last month. It was better from a methodology standpoint because they fed the subjects an abundance of protein. So Yasuda and college who and colleagues who tested the two versus three, he totaled everybody out at 1.3 g per kilogram of body weight per day. That's the total daily protein dose. And so we know now that that's a suboptimal total if you

8:24 want to push muscle growth. So for pushing muscle growth, we know you you should be at 1.6 g per kilogram of body weight, which translates to 7 g per pound of body weight. That's where you really want to be if you want to maximize muscular adaptations to resistance training like muscle size and strength gains. So this latest study, they compared three uh three protein feedings versus five protein feedings. And the totals of protein intake in the day in both groups were around a gram per pound. So right around 2.2ish grams per kilogram of body weight. So we have the optimized daily

9:11 total and we're testing three versus five protein feedings. were doing progressive resistance training and this is the key. This happened in resistance trained subjects. There were no significant differences as m in muscle size and strength gain between the three protein feedings a day versus five protein feedings a day. And this is the best designed study to date on the on the topic. And and so >> because when I grew up and read stuff about gaining muscle, it said you have to have like five or six meals a day. Mhm. Um I said that's what bodybuilders do. >> Whenever we we talk about any kind of physical goal, any any sort of fitness goal, we have to address two main things. So who's the who's the

9:58 population and what goal are we talking about? And maybe a third thing we need to address is what is at stake? So what level are we talking about? So population goal, what level? What's at stake? So with bodybuilders at elite levels it is most of them consume five six meals a day. Some of them do like even seven or eight in the offseason. And these are individuals who are enhanced and so their ceiling for muscle growth and their rates of muscle muscle growth are significantly higher than people who are in quotes natural.

10:44 And the amount of food that these individuals can process and use productively is significantly more. And so with that population, I can see it being pretty standard for them to be consuming at least five, six meals a day since they tend to have since they tend to be eating double the amount of of the average person. >> And so, but the interesting thing that happens is that the guidelines from this very sort of fringe elite population, that's what trickles down into the general public. and then they're stuck thinking, okay, maybe I need to eat every 2.5 hours or or some such. >> But yeah, with the with the general population and even um recreational

11:29 athletes and people who are hobbyists and and stuff, you really the impact of actual protein distribution is inconsequential compared to the total. >> So, how much protein should I be eating a day? because I think you disagree with the recommended daily sort of allowance that they suggest we eat as um I think I'm 90 kg. >> Mhm. >> How much protein should I be eating to gain muscle, lean muscle mass? >> Okay. So, we're going to apply you to the population and the goal and the stakes questions. So, what would you say your training status is? You're obviously not a beginner.

12:15 Um, so you're somewhere between intermediate and advanced. >> Mhm. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> So, what is your goal? >> Just to lose fat and gain muscle. >> Okay. >> Familiar story, I'm sure. >> Okay. The way that I do it is I go 1.6 to 2.2 g per kilogram of target body weight or goal body weight. >> Mhm. >> So, that's the range that you would be looking at. Now, with you in particular, I would go more towards the upper end because you mentioned that you part of your goal is to decrease body fat to a to a minor degree, >> but you're still you're pushing the

13:01 envelope because you're already lean. >> Mhm. >> So, there's an interesting thing about high balling protein that facilitates that uh reduction in body fat. If I have a lot of protein, it helps to reduce body fat. >> Yeah. Yeah, it does. And the way that we know this is because there have been several studies now, four trials, one case study um by Joey Antonio and colleagues, and they examine the effect of very high protein intakes anywhere from about 3.3 all the way to 4.4 four gram per kilogram of body weight roughly. Gosh, you know, a

13:48 gram and a half to two grams per pound. >> Is that because you're eating less carbohydrates? You're sort of substituting it for something else essentially in terms of you feeling hungry. So, if I'm having 3.3 g of protein, I'm probably not going to be having something else which is more fatty. >> Yeah, that's right. That's right. So this particular line of research was done on people who were resistance training and it was done in free living conditions and they just gave them the assignment to essentially increase their their protein intake by 50%. and literally add 80 to 100 grams of protein on top of their existing habitual dietary intakes.

14:35 >> So, what would you say to me then? You'd say push even higher in terms of grams per kilogram of body weight. >> What is your goal body weight? >> I don't actually have a goal body weight to be honest. I just have more of a a goal in terms of like strength. >> How about this? Were you ever in the shape that you are wanting to be in? And what what was your body weight at that time? >> I was around 90. I think I was just a little bit below 90 kg. So I think I was about 88. >> Okay. So you know what? Let's let's take 90. >> Yeah. >> And multiply that by 2.2. >> 90 time 2.2. >> There's your protein target. >> 198 >> grams of protein a day. So, if my if a protein shake gives me 20 grams of protein, I I need to have basically 10 g

15:20 10 protein shakes a day. That's seems like a lot of protein. >> That is a lot of protein. Uh I I would give a little caveat here. You can probably achieve your your goal >> with 1.6 grams per kilogram of body weight. So, that would be the lower end. So, multiply 90 by 1.6. six. >> Mhm. >> And that's where you can start. So if if that 198 number seems kind of far-fetched or even a little bit like, hm, how how would I even achieve that? Then start off at the lower end. >> Do women have a different prescription in this regard? Is there a different approach if you're a woman? >> Yeah. If you're a woman, you would

16:05 almost always start at the low end because women have a higher proportion of body fat and and by default, they have a lower proportion of lean mass. So with women it would almost always be all right let's start at 1.6 grams per kilogram of target body weight and see how you do with that and we can always ratchet it up if needed. >> Is there any such harm in eating too much protein? >> It's rare. Uh you would have to have a pre-existing chronic kidney disease and then it's generally not a good thing to be highballing the protein. Um, but even people with chronic kidney disease have to realize the trade-off that they're incurring with a low protein diet and

16:50 older age sarcopenia and stuff. How are they going to mitigate that? But for the general healthy population, there have been many studies that have rolled out looking at effects on kidney function, liver function, bone health, and there is virtually zero threat to those organ systems that that you would think might be threatened by a high protein intake. So the human organism perfectly well equipped to metabolize and handle high protein amounts. And not all protein is equal, I guess, because you've got you've got these animal proteins and then plant proteins um that come from things like eggs and so on. What is the best type of protein, do you think? Is there such a thing? I think that the best thing you can do

17:37 is get a mix of different types of protein. It is true that gram for gram generally speaking animal proteins are more in quotes anabolic than plant proteins meaning that they stimulate a greater growth response >> of muscle >> at the muscle level. So they stimulate muscle protein synthesis more potently than plant proteins. And there are there's maybe one exception to that that we know of which is mop protein which is a fungusbased protein that actually outperformed milk protein for stimulating muscle protein synthesis. So there's interesting exceptions like that but generally speaking animal proteins are better for

18:24 muscle protein synthesis than plant proteins. Now, with that said, Stephen, once you consume a certain amount of total daily protein, then it doesn't appear to matter how much of your protein is animal-based versus how much your pro your protein is plant-based. If we're looking at things like muscle size and strength gain because this has been actually compared in controlled interventions where um vegan group has been compared with an omnivore group and total daily protein was optimized at 1.6 g per kilogram of body weight per day or.7 g per pound in both groups. Progressive resistance training for 12 weeks. no significant differences

19:11 between groups in muscle size and strength gain whether it was a omnivorous protein intake or whether it was a plant-based protein intake and we have two studies showing that now >> you must have so many moments where you're working with someone through your career who's got a goal and he feels like they just can't accomplish it where you find yourself saying the same thing over and over again to people about how to lose fat or to gain muscle mass is that same thing just to have more protein. >> It's a common thing with the general population, with the lay public. Like my my protein target is at least 160 grams a day. So, I just make sure that I have four meals with at least 40 g of protein per day.

19:59 And it's so easy to do. It's incredibly easy to do because two of my meals per day are just real whole foods. And then two of my meals per day, two to three, are protein smoothies. And so, uh, it is just so incredibly easy for me to to get my protein intake through. Like two scoops of protein, bam, that's almost 50 grams of protein right there. Right there. So, you have two of those a day, I've got more than half my protein covered. >> But if I if I have all of my protein in one meal, >> Mhm. >> is that going to impact my ability to gain muscle or lose fat if I have it all in one meal? If I just have like one massive protein shake, if I put like five scoops. Now, if you were telling me, "Hey, Allan, I want to place really good in the Nationals this year, the NPC

20:46 Nationals, classic classic physique or, you know, classic bodybuilding or just any one of the physique divisions, I would say, you know, you you are not going to want to try to get all your protein in a single meal because what we want to do is we want to maximize the number of microanabolic events in the course of the day. We want to maximize the amount of times you maximally stimulate muscle protein synthesis in the course of the day. And just from a a pragmatic standpoint, you could probably do that at least three or four times. And if you're able to do that three or four times in a day versus once with that one big banger of a meal,

21:32 then you might actually over time gain more muscle than you would have. And this could make the difference between placings at the end of the uh end of the prep period. So, but as somebody in the general population, theoretically you could >> I am going to challenge you to do something here. I asked my audience about weight loss and asked them for their 15 most popular questions that are currently unanswered for them. >> All right. >> About weight loss. >> The first one was, "How do I lose weight fast?" >> So essentially, you can engage what would could be classified as a as a as a protein sparing modified fast.

22:19 You're basically crash dieting. Um, I don't love doing that though, honestly. >> Listen, I've got a wedding. I need to I need to lose weight fast. How do I lose weight fast? >> Losing weight fast. So, you would basically do an aggressive caloric deficit. So, anywhere I I would say 20% below your maintenance needs. 20 to possibly 40 depending on the individual percent below your maintenance needs. And then keep the protein high. And this is going to default you to relatively low carbohydrate, relatively low fat, and just train regularly. Don't hurt yourself. Um, >> protein high, you said.

23:04 >> Yeah, protein high. And calories wise, so for example, if you maintained at we we'll just take a round number, 2,000 calories. So you would just lop off about a third of that and then just go and see if you can maintain your fat loss while maintaining strength levels relatively. You're it's almost inevitable to crash diet and uh lose some strength in the process. But I mean we're we're talking about something that's not an optimal process. But yeah, that that's that's the game basically. Aggressive caloric deficit, keep protein very high and then you just go and the

23:50 deficit could be anywhere from 500 to a,000ish calories below what you normally take in. >> The second one is why do I regain weight after stopping a Zmpeek, WGO, etc. All right. So those GLP-1 RAS, the recep GLP-1 receptor agonist drugs like WGOI, they have um at least three different mechanisms that all converge towards almost nullifying your your hunger and your appetite response. And so when you cut out the drug, then your normal appetite comes back. And

24:35 an unfortunate reality for a lot of uh GLP1 users when they get off the drug is they just don't have the habits and they don't have the skills necessarily to maintain their weight loss. And of course, once again, they're fighting their appetite. So I would say perhaps try um a weaning off process instead of just a jumping off process. A weaning off process where you are reinforcing countermeasures to overeating, where you are reinforcing good training habits and good dietary habits. And we're al where you're also progressively learning how to live with and deal with sensations of hunger between meals. and just train those

25:22 habits in. And uh it can be done. I I I I'm not one of the people in the camp who says it's impossible to get off of a weight loss drug successfully. >> So number three again is is my metabolism damaged after dieting? And they're asking a question here about something called adaptive thermogenesis. >> Yeah. Okay. So this is not really a short shot here. So the the process of metabolic adaptation is kind of complex and it happens in both directions whether you try to gain weight or whether you try to lose weight. So earlier we talked about uh an increase in non exercise activity thermogenesis or NEAt an increase in NEAt in response to an increase in calories. So that

26:07 occurs and across studies. I I gave an example that showed a 336 calorie increase in NEAt when a thousand calories were stacked on top of people's maintenance. But there are other studies where the caloric increase was not quite that aggressive. And so so on average increases in NEAT or non-ex exercise activity thermogenesis are about 2 to 300 calories. So you increase your energy expenditure about two to 300 calories if you're overeating. >> Yeah. So your body will start to twitch more and move more burning more non-active calories. That's correct. >> When you're overeating. Yeah. So that's an that's an adaptation. >> That that's the adaptation in the

26:52 caloric surplus side. So in the caloric deficit side, it's just the opposite thing, just the mirror of it. So people decrease their non-ex exercise activity thermogenesis or their need. They decrease it on average like two to threeish hundred calories. >> Okay. >> As a result of dieting. So this is part of a metabolic adaptation that occurs with dieting. >> Is this why people don't think the calories in calories out system is working for them sometimes? because they don't realize that if they're in a calorie deficit, sometimes they are subconsciously moving around less, which means that they're burning less calories. Um, so actually they're not in a calorie deficit. >> Yes, that's correct. So with the dieting

27:41 side of things, which is much more of a public health issue, weight loss is is much more of a a necessity than the weight gain. It's it's tougher for most people because in addition to the decrease in non-ex exercise activity that'll cost people two to 300ish calories that they're no longer uh no longer burning at the end of the dieting cycle. Then you've got what's called adaptive thermo reduction. Okay. So you mentioned adaptive thermogenesis. Technically that is the there's non-shivering adaptive thermogenesis and there's shivering adaptive thermogenesis. But that all has to do with increases in energy expenditure in response to cold environments. So that's

28:26 technically that's what adaptive thermogenesis is. It's an increase in energy expenditure. When people diet, there's something called adaptive thermo reduction. And that is that part of it is a decrease in non-ex exercise activity thermogenesis. >> You're you're basically saying that the body changes when we're in a calorie deficit. >> It stops doing as much. >> Yes. That's the activity part. >> Yeah. >> But then there's also the metabolic part. So we've got a decrease in non-ex exercise activity. >> Yeah. >> Then we have adaptive thermo reduction which has to do with a a metabolic component that has to do with the sympathetic nervous system and also potentially thyroid output as well. So

29:11 there's this metabolic change that goes on and there's behavioral or activity change that goes on. So when people say I've got a slow metabolism, >> they might be telling the truth. >> When people say I have a slow metabolism, what's usually happening is they have a pretty massive drop in NEAT or non-ex exercise activity to the order of 2 to 300 calories. Now adaptive thermo reduction is another 50 to 100 calories. >> Okay? So, we're looking at in the neighborhood of like possibly three 400 calories that they're no longer burning as a result of the dieting process. Now, if you take somebody with um clinically

29:57 diagnosed hypothyroidism, then their resting metabolic rate could be 7 to 10% lower than somebody without a thyroid issue. So you add another one to 200 calories less burned over here. Then you have the potential for five to 600 calories of energy expenditure that this person is challenged with uh at the end of their dieting cycle. So they're >> so I guess it is kind of true in a in a way that people understand it that if you overeat your metabolism as far as they understand what their metabolism is is increasing and if you undereat then your metabolism is slowing down. >> Yes. But I have to emphasize the major component that slows down is your non

30:43 exercise activity. >> You're not moving around as much. >> Yes. the other components like adaptive thermal reduction and potential thyroid issues. That is the minor component. The major component is a drop in fidgeting, a slowing of the rate that you walk around, an increase in the amount you sit around, >> and you can control that. >> Yes, it's it's hard to put a put a finger on it, but as long as you know that stuff goes down, I give you an example of uh physique competitors. They are as their cutting cutting phase progresses, they're literally lying around in between their cardio sessions and their resistance training sessions and their Tupperware meal sessions. >> Okay? They're no longer tapping their

31:28 heads bo, you know, tapping their fingers and bobbing their heads and they're no longer have a pep in their step. They're no longer doing non exercise activities, basically. Question four, what diet actually works best for long-term weight loss? Keto, low-fat, Mediterranean, intermittent fasting. And you got to give me a answer. I'll say it in one sentence. The diet with enough protein, enough total calories that is comprised predominantly of healthy food choices that fits the individual's personal preferences and tolerances.

32:14 >> How do I lose belly fat specifically? Can you target the belly? Targeting belly fat specifically is a matter of targeting total body fat. You can't necessarily spot reduce the the belly fat. Now, if we're go a layer deeper, it is possible for certain diets to be more conducive to preventing visceral fat gain or maybe even accelerating visceral fat loss. Visceral fat is the fat uh in the within the abdominal cavity around the the organs. And so it is possible for certain diets to be more conducive to reductions in visceral fat. And that

32:59 would be diets that have a lower proportion of saturated fat, >> which is what's what's an example of a saturated fat food? >> Land fatty land animal meats. So land animal fats are going to be your saturated fats that are more conducive to visceral fat gain. So if you were to switch out, let's say fatty cuts of meat, just trim that fat out and if you replaced it with something like avocado nuts, olive oil, seeds >> on menopause, why is fat loss harder and what actually works? >> Okay. During the menopausal transition, which begins at a woman's mid-40s on average and then ends in in the mid-50s, there are changes physiologically and

33:45 hormonally that can challenge a fitness program. So, it can challenge their ability to execute the fitness program and adhere to it. And so things like hot flashes and joint pain, changes in sexual function and poor sleep. All of those things can converge to lead to a a decreased ability to stick to a program and do the necessary physical activity and dietary adherence to reach the sort of the standard rate of progress for body composition change. And so the solution to that would be simply you don't have to rearrange a

34:31 whole program because somebody's going through menopause. You don't have to cut out nutrients and do any special things. What has been effective is just lowering the expectation of progress. So whereas I would typically have somebody gun for a pound a week of fat loss, somebody in the menopausal transition, they have more challenges to that going on simultaneously. So we would go for about half of that >> protein. What do what do they do in terms of protein? Just keep the protein high. >> Same range. Yeah. So, with protein, I got to say there's sort of a two-tiered recommendation. So, the general public with average goals >> Mhm. >> will do just fine on 1.2 to 1.6 g per

35:18 kilogram of body weight. That's kind of like the general population average goal, folks. somebody like yourself, uh, somebody like me and folks who are oriented towards maybe pushing the envelope a little bit more than the average 1.6 to 2.2 g per kilogram of body weight. And you know, there's a little margin over here for people on the fringe physique competitors who I would have no problem seeing them go higher than that 2.2 g per kilogram cut off. Is there anything else that Perry or menopause or women need to understand about gaining muscle and keeping fat off when they're going through menopause? Is there anything else that we've missed?

36:07 >> You know, I I would just emphasize the understanding that midlife presents maybe the highest point of uh psychological stress in in people's lives. So starting from the late 40s going all the way into people's 50s and 60s it's it's like that you know the concentrated period in the menopausal transition mid-40s to mid-50s is when people are dealing with ailing parents the stress of ailing parents the stress of kids going through high school or college. The stress of hitting a high point in their careers. The pressures thereof. the time and the energy that is necessary to allocate for all of those things. >> Mhm. >> All of those things distract from, oh,

36:53 I've got a fitness program here. Oh, my coach is making me do this and this and this and now he's making me diet like this. That's the thing that I I would emphasize. There's nothing special or different that needs to be done. And in fact, there's a lot of mythology that's circulating the space right now where coaches and gurus and even some physicians are telling women that they are just doomed to gain a bunch of belly fat and lose a bunch of muscle during menopause. It just happens. You're doomed. Well, that's just not true. Uh there is a study called the Swan study. That's the longest and largest study of its kind. And the average amount of fat gain during the entire menopausal transition was 1.6 kilograms which is 3

37:40 and a half pounds. And the average amount of muscle loss total during the menopausal transition was 0.2 kg. That's about half half a pound of muscle loss. Statistically significant? Yes. Insurmountable? No. So, and are there going to be outliers who experience double the muscle loss and double the fat gain of that? Yes. But none of this is insurmountable. >> What do you think about taking is it HRT? Does that help? >> Yeah. Well, well, it it helps those who need it. So, HRT should be looked at on an individual basis. One of the things that really annoys the absolute crap out of me is when I'm seeing the comment

38:26 sections on social media with people telling everybody that, "Hey, you just turned 40. time to go on HRT. That is between you and your doctor. People are trying to universalize major changes like HRT. Some people definitely benefit from it. And just the same, there are a lot of people who don't need it. >> The people that benefit from it, do they find it easier to gain muscle mass and to not gain fat? Is that kind of like what >> that is a common >> Okay. That is a common result. Yes. But my thing with HRT is is this. So there has to be a symptomologic reason

39:12 to get on it. So you have to be incurring or experiencing symptoms that are disrupting to your quality of life. >> Mhm. Regardless of what your blood labs are, like for testosterone for example, if you are out of range for testosterone on the lower end, let's say, but you have no symptoms and you feel fine, you perform great in all aspects, then it's really up to you whether it bugs you enough that you're below range or lower on the lower end of the range um to correct that. It it's up to you. And so symptomologically driven. Now the other thing to look at with HRT is and a lot of people they get a single testing

39:57 point and they judge their need to get on hormonal replacement therapy based on a single single test. What people need to do is see whether there is some sort of trend going on in one direction or another or not. And if that trend is going in a bad direction over time, and you you can do this by just multiple time points over over an extended period, it's debatable, like 6 months, 12 months to see what's going on. Try to correct things through lifestyle and diet. And often they are correctable. Um, I've just I've come across many cases where a guy will be underslept, overworked, eating like crap, gets his testosterone levels tested. Oh, you're

40:44 right at the bottom or you're even below range. Oh, time for HRT. Well, hold on a second. Let's get this guy some sleep. Let's improve his lifestyle, improve body composition, and then bang, testosterone levels double. This is not an uncommon thing. And so I'm very much a proponent of first, are there symptoms driving the justification for HRT? And then secondly, are we basing things on a single time point or did we actually see a trend over time? >> My next question is about PCOS. Mhm. >> A lot of women are struggling with PCOS and that's causing them to have irregular menstrual cycles and um fertility issues.

41:32 What would you say to a woman who is struggling with PCOS in terms of dietary prescription? >> Okay. So PCOS shares a lot of metabolic characteristics with type 2 diabetes. So um there is insulin resistance going on there. There is impaired glycemic control going on. And so we can pretty much justify being cautious with total amount of carbohydrate intake with um PCOS. With type 2 diabetes there's two tiers of importance dietarily. So of first importance with type two diabetes, you have to structure the diet so that it

42:17 allows body fat loss. The success of GLP-1 drugs has actually proven that at the heart of type 2 diabetes is overeating uh an abundance of body fat. So the way that type 2 diabetes happens is in genetically predisposed individuals they gain total body fat and then they gain visceral fat an undue amount of visceral fat and then this leads to insulin resistance and impairment of glycemic control. So PCOS is is very similar in this regard. uh there is no standard or consensusbased PCOS diet protocol, but because it shares so many similar

43:04 characteristics with type 2 diabetes, then we can pretty much employ the same principles of how we would intervene with type two diabetes, which would number one put a priority on total body fat reduction. And then tier number two would be all right, do we need to restrict carbohydrates even further? And so that would be very similar with with PCOS. And at kind of a population level with type two diabetes, roughly 130ish grams of carbohydrates a day seems to be sort of the sweet spot uh below which people have an easier time controlling their blood sugar than above that total amount. But that's just a statistical average. We still have to look at things case by case. >> My girlfriend, she um has PCOS and she did the ketogenic diet with me. She's on

43:50 it at the moment. We've been doing it for about eight weeks now. Mhm. >> We we do it intermittently throughout the years. Um and she said her menstrual cycle has perfectly corrected itself. I think at its maximum it was like 60 days her menstrual cycle >> and then because she's restricted her carbohydrates as you were saying in in in this way using keto it's it's like she said it's perfect. It's like perfectly predictable now. >> That's awesome. I I I say that in part because people I think people don't with PCOS who have irregular menstrual cycles don't often consider that carbohydrates, sugar, glucose, whatever could be the perpetrator. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, >> because it's framed as a disease like you you were born with it. Maybe it's heritable. Maybe there's an element of truth to that. But um it's crazy that

44:36 that dietary intervention had such a profound impact on her in particular. >> It's glad to hear that you found something that works. That's yeah that's an you know that's anytime you present >> with some sort of clinical condition I would first tell you hey see see an endocrinologist or see a doctor who specializes in that particular issue >> and in terms of menstrual cycles generally if you do have an irregular menstrual cycle is there anything you should be thinking about >> number one see a doctor number two consider whether or not you are overtraining and undereating >> so what happens happens with female physique competitors. Menstrual disruption, menstrual cessation a few months into prep,

45:22 sometimes even a few weeks in a prep, depending on how aggressive the diet is. And so the menstrual disruption is very common in competitive athletes and in recreational athletes who have to maintain a certain level of leanness while maintaining a high volume of exercise output. Is that the body from an evolutionary perspective saying, "Listen, we we don't have the energy to have a baby here, so we're just going to shut this down." >> That is right on. Yeah. >> So, you kind of do you don't want to be restricting your calorie consumption too much if you have an irregular menstrual cycle and you're trying to correct that. >> Yeah. No. No. Um, the so-called female athlete triad begins with overtraining, undereating, potential eating disorder,

46:08 nurturing going on there. And then down the line, the menstrual cycle gets disrupted and stops. And then hormonal changes happen that are negative. And then that ultimately results in osteopenia, osteoporosis. And so that chain of events is unfortunately really common with women who um don't pay attention to a healthy menstrual cycle. >> People use this term all the time, muscle memory. Mhm. Uh I thought it was nonsense, but I spoke to someone the other day and they said to me, "Actually, no, your your body does have a muscle memory, which means that if I fall off now uh and I stop going to the gym, my body is going to be able to get back to my current physique faster because I was here once upon a time.

46:53 >> Is this is this true?" >> That is true. There's some debate going on amongst the community what what goes on physiologically with like when you train you create you create new myoule so you increase your so-called myionuclear domains and those stay relatively permanent even during times of dtraining but there's still the so-called proprioceptive or motor component to training that sticks with people sort of the skill aspect of it that sticks with people to be able to execute the movements and do the things to cause the adaptations. So, not only do you have that muscle memory from the myionuclear domain standpoint, but you have the motor learning, the neurological

47:40 component, and to a degree you you also have the skeletal component to be able to capacitate those that rebound in loading and muscle gain, muscle regain rather. >> Is the gut microbiome playing a role in my ability to lose weight? Not a big one. Um, of course, if I >> Why did you make that sound? >> Well, there's some people in the space who put the microbiome a as the master regulator everything, but it's definitely a part of the the axis of organ systems that that manifest whatever, you know, result we're looking at. It's part of it. Yes. But it's not the the it's not the main puppeteer of everything. everything

48:25 works in concert to and and I'll just give you an example there. So, there are certain supplements that are um that are claimed to be able to in quotes fix the gut microbiome and cause greater weight loss. So, there have been many studies looking at this sort of phenomenon. And while there is a statistically significant effect in some cases, the absolute amount that they can help for things like body fat loss or body weight loss is usually not practically significant. It's it's too small to be considered meaningful. And so I wouldn't necessarily rely on changes in the gut microbiome for impacting like global

49:10 changes in body fat. Here I have 20 eggs. I heard that you eat 20 eggs per week, which is about, you know, four eggs a day potentially. Why do you eat so many eggs? >> Well, number one, I'm one of those weirdos who actually loves eggs. I love I love the taste of them. Um, they're a great source of protein. Uh, decent source of fat, most of the fat, and there is oleic acid, by the way, which is a monounsaturate that predominates olive oil. It's a low saturated fat thing. Of course, the knock on eggs is their cholesterol content. Um, but interestingly, uh, it's dietary saturated fat that has the greater magnitude of impact on blood lipids than

49:57 than dietary cholesterol. Interestingly enough, I recognize that the major health agencies would want you to stop your egg consumption to like one a day, possibly two a day if you're an elderly person. But I take the uh health agencies um or even the consensus guidelines as a okay, that's cool. That's good starting point. Um I happen to like eggs. I'll eat more than that. Check my blood. Check my health. I'm doing just fine. So, I'm one of those people who can do four eggs a day just fine. >> Is this part of your broader testosterone protocol? >> I I like the fact that uh eggs are conducive to testosterone production. >> So, you're 53 years old, right?

50:43 >> Yes. >> Do you test your testosterone levels? I have not tested my testosterone levels in forever, but I'm not concerned with it because once again, it would be a symptom-driven thing for me to even care. So, if I was experiencing the symptoms of low testosterone, then that would give me a reason to check it out and see what's going on. And then I would have to take a step back and look and see what can I modify with lifestyle. What what do I have available to change non-drug-wise? And you know what? If I ever need to take exogenous testosterone, if that day ever comes, well, then so be it. I'm just not there. >> What supplements do you take every day?

51:29 >> I take a multivitamin. I take two multivitamins, actually. Uh the reason why I take two multivitamins is because really certain key uh nutrients in there, they they have to be in such small amounts per single pill that it's really just meaningless. And so I take two multivitamins, one of them with iron, one of them without iron. And I also take fish oil, uh I take magnesium, and I take vitamin D3. I take vitamin C. And and by the way, I really should preface this with this is the bro science side of my personal habits because I'm taking my vitamins more on uh placing your bets basis rather than hey man this is just

52:15 the bottom line evidence-based. I think everybody should do this. Okay. So I want I want to make sure that's clear. I also take magnesium and I also take collagen and I also take creatine. If I told you you could only take three of those supplements, which three would you pick? >> That's a damn good question, man. Can I have uh can can I'm going to count my two multis as one. >> So, your multivitamin would be would that be the first one? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, multivitamin >> and omega-3s, the fish oil, vitamin D3. >> So, you've you've sacked off the creatine. [Laughter] >> You're a genius. That's those are those would be those

53:00 would be the top three. I would c Can I add creatine in there? Could I squeeze it in there? >> No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. >> Oh, bro. >> I had to pick three. So, you picked the multivitamin, omega-3, the vitamin D3. >> Well, it might humble me to kick the creatine out. So, okay, fine. I'll leave those three. >> You call creatine king creatine. >> Yeah. >> Why' you call it that? It's the only non-farmacological supplement that that really really has a very strong and deep and broad evidence base for um enhancing the effects of of resistance training. So strength gains and size gains more strength than size. The size gains they they come with the initial uh loading phase where a lot more intramuscular

53:46 water happens or you know intracellular intramiocellular hydration. That is the the big immediate part of creatine that that folks feel when they go on it and when they go off of it. So you you'll lose a few pounds of lean mass if you get off of creatine. I call it kreat creatine because it has possibly close to a I want to say it's reached over a thousand studies and the majority of those studies show um positive effects. Usually with with creatine if you were to compare a group taking creatine versus a group not taking creatine. So the creatine group will

54:32 have like a 20% increase in their lifting capacity whereas the non-creatine group will have like 12ish% increase in their lifting capacity over a typical study length 8 to 12 weeksish. And so that is a significant strength gain advantage and over the long term that would definitely augment muscle hypertrophy as well. And once you're loaded with creatine, so being loaded with creatine means that you saturate your muscle creatine stores. And that requires either a loading phase of 20 to 25 grams per day for 5 to 7 days or um a maintenance phase that you engage like 3 to five grams a day. You'll be loaded at um about 30 days. And so during that

55:19 loading phase, it's pretty common for people to gain roughly 2% of their body weight um as lean mass. >> People seem to talk about creatine like it's this miracle thing that everybody should be taking. That's one of the one of the few supplements that it seems all the uh experts I speak to about this stuff seem to agree upon. Obviously, vitamin D, omega-3 comes up all the time and ultivitamins, but creatine seems to, you know, nobody seems to have much of an issue with it or be able to point to many side effects of taking with it, both for men and women. >> Yeah, it's got the muscul muscularkeeletal um benefit there. Believe it or not, there's even um benefits for creatine on on joint health. So um not only that,

56:04 not only the the athletic performance and muscle hypertrophy side, but there are things like uh improved glucose control, improved memory. So different domains of cognition can be enhanced by creatine. The level of creatine in the brain can increase with with supplementation. And then you create a pro-energy environment in the brain. And that's how uh these positive effects on memory happen with creatine supplementation, especially in people with uh cognitive decline. So So it there's almost nothing creatine can't do. >> Wow. Some statement. >> A business is only as good as the people inside it. So how do you make sure

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57:36 and terms and conditions apply. >> Right guys, going to go get Steve. The guest is here. Ready? >> Come in. >> Oh my god. What >> What are you doing? >> This is uh the Bontage face mask. It's h good for blemishes, wrinkles, uh clears up the skin. It's red light. Have you not used it before? >> No. >> Tried this before. It's um it's really really good. It's shines red light on your face, which helps increase and boost collagen production. Actually found it out cuz the misses seen her wearing it. She terrified me a couple of nights in a row. Um I thought it was to scare people with, but actually it's really really good for your skin. So they are a sponsor of the podcast and uh I've been using it every day for about a year and a half now. >> You're glowing. Wow, Steve. Great. >> Yes. And Boncharge ships worldwide with easy returns and a year-long warranty on

58:22 all of their products. So, visit bondcharge.com/diary for 25% off on any product sitewide, but you have to order through that link. That's bondcharge.com/diary with code diary. >> Diet breaks. What's a diet break and why does that why is that a useful tool? >> Yes. So, one of the big things that dieters encounter are progress plateaus. And so, we can define a progress plateau as four to possibly 8 weeks of no change in body composition despite good compliance to the program. With that definition out of the way, then intervening and overcoming or managing a plateau is really sort of

59:09 this individualized process that needs to be looked at case by case where for example, if somebody feels like they're in the midst of a plateau and they have been on program, then there's really only two reasons the plateau happened. So reason number one is that their compliance was inconsistent. So poor compliance is number one or number two they have reached energy equilibrium. So they've reached a genuine and bonafide new maintenance point. But there's something that is overarching with the plateau concept that people need to understand. So we automatically look at progress plateaus as something negative. when

59:55 people need to reorganize or reframe their perception of what a plateau is and the plateau is just the body doing its job. When we look at the body as an adaptive survival unit then homeostasis is a big part of that. So if the body achieves homeostasis then hallelujah we're we're going to live. We're going to survive. So if for example somebody has a lot of weight to lose let's say somewhere to the order of over 20 pounds 20 40 60 lbs to lose they have to understand that multiple plateaus will be encountered on route to their ultimate goal. And the way that the body changes is

1:00:43 always going to be this surge, slow, stop pattern. And it just continues this way. And with every progressive plateau, the surge part gets shorter and the slowing part and then the plateau part gets longer. So you can think of it as staircases and landings. So with each successive plateau, the staircase gets shorter, the landing gets longer, but it's supposed to go like that and the plateaus should be getting longer because the ultimate goal after all is a plateau of sorts. And when people come to realize that, then they can look at plateaus as what I call maintenance

1:01:29 practice. So if they have that mental shift from seeing plateaus as this negative thing where I need to go sniff out the next great diet or the next great product, they can look at it as all right, so the plateau is a good thing. The body is doing its job. Now we have an opportunity to practice maintenance. And think about it this way too, Stephen. Anybody can get weight off, but weight loss maintenance really is the issue. So the better you get at weight loss maintenance, then the more you can win the game. >> How do I get good at weight loss maintenance? >> All right. So in order to properly maintain, you have to properly get there. So properly getting there means that you

1:02:17 have to do your best to maintain your lean body mass while you're losing body fat. So what happens to a lot of people when they diet is they lose a lot of lean body mass along with >> lean body mass. You mean muscle? >> Yes. Muscle mass. >> Muscle mass >> along with their fat mass. And so muscle tissue is something very important to keep on the body while you're losing fat because muscle is we can look at it as our metabolically active. Every tissue is metabolically active even even body fat. But muscle tissue specifically is the center of our dietary fuel usage. It is the metabolic engine of the body, if you will. And so

1:03:03 if you're losing muscle tissue, you're really losing metabolic leverage while you're losing body fat. >> So the way that I infer that is that muscle is very greedy >> and it it it takes a lot takes up a lot of calories. So if I lose my muscle when I get when I drop my weight, it's almost like the greedy guy who who sucks up all my calories is no longer there. And so I'm quite likely just to to rebound quite quickly. >> That's a great analogy. And and it's accurate, too. And in fact, there is a phenomenon that in the literature it's called collateral fattening. And that happens when the body senses an energy crisis at the end of a diet where you've lost a bunch of muscle mass. The

1:03:50 body senses that, oh my gosh, we just lost a bunch of precious tissue. We have to do whatever we can to get it back. And so your hunger signals ramp up and your body kind of behaviorally and even metabolically does what is necessary for you to feed that back as soon as possible. And this does not necessarily happen certainly not to that kind of magnitude if you keep your muscle mass while you're losing body fat. you don't experience this collateral fattening type of phenomenon where people just rebound like crazy because their appetite is out of control at the end of the diet. So the way that you preserve muscle mass during the fat loss process

1:04:36 is a couple things. So you have to make sure that your rate of weight loss isn't indicative of something that's too quick. So about a half a percent to a full percent of your body weight lost per week is as fast as you really want to go. So roughly a pound a week. uh some people who start off heavier, okay, two pounds a week is fine at the very beginning, but you generally don't want to lose more than 1% of your total body weight per week because then that increases the chances that you're losing an undue amount of muscle mass along with your fat mass. And so if you can in essence control the weight loss rate,

1:05:23 then you will keep your lean mass. The other two things that need to be going on at the same time are you need to be resistance training and you need to be consuming enough protein. So >> strength training and protein >> enough protein, you got resistance training and then you have sort of a top speed limiter on how much weight that you lose per week. And 1% loss awake 1% loss a week is spectacular actually for most people. Even a pound a week, even half a pound a week, you're looking at like in two years you lost 50 pounds. Most people took like two decades to put on that 50 pounds. >> So you actually don't want to lose weight too quickly or else you are susceptible to rebound. >> It is going to come off quickly if you

1:06:10 have a lot of weight to lose. It'll come off quickly at the beginning. So, for example, uh somebody who is in a state of obesity, let's say they weigh 250 pounds and let's say they're losing two two and a half pounds a week at the beginning of the program, that's fine. But on average, on average, you you would want to look at roughly a pound a week is a good benchmark. And I still would not frown upon or scoff at a half a pound a week for certain cases. And we can talk about some of those stubborn cases. Like on the topic of plateaus, for example, I had a client uh I'm sure she doesn't mind being named. She's a great person, Pam Pam Gresock. She's a veteran coach in the space. Uh she's

1:06:57 permenopausal, so she's in her her 40s. And she wanted to lose what we calculated out to be 8 pounds of fat. and she stored the majority of it where she didn't want it was around the midsection. And I had it in mind that okay, this is somebody who's permenopausal, so there's going to be a lower rate of progress going on. This is somebody who is highly trained. So, she doesn't have a lot more muscle to put on that would give her some, you know, some extra in quotes metabolic leverage for the whole process of improving body composition. So, she's highly trained, permenopausal,

1:07:45 wants to lose 8 pounds of fat, which would represent the final eight pounds. sort of that that pushing the envelope. Knowing those three things, I knew that this is going to be a difficult and slowgoing process. So whereas I would normally have somebody expect roughly or at least gun for a pound a week loss, for Pam, it was more like, are you going to be okay with one to two pounds per month? like if we can get rid of one to two pounds of body fat per month, I would be happy with it and I think you should be happy with it. And so I convinced her of that. And with her wanting to lose 8 pounds, I think it

1:08:33 helps to give people a visual of what a certain amount of weight loss looks like. So coincidentally, a gallon a gallon jug if you fill it with butter, that's 8 pounds. And so I had her visualize this 8 pound jug. And um I also had her do a butter visualization too. So um a standard stick of butter is 4 ounces. So four sticks of butter is one pound. And uh in her case, she wanted to lose well she wanted to lose 8 pounds. So that's 32 sticks of butter that would be removed from her body at the end of the dieting cycle. Is that what this is here? What is this?

1:09:24 >> That is 10 pounds of butter. This is an amazing freaking visual. And this this is because you asked about diet breaks as a tool for people achieving long-term weight loss or just breaking through plateaus or managing plateaus. So every 5 to 10 pounds that somebody loses in a dieting cycle is high time for a diet break. The way you can define a diet break, put some parameters on it. So it's what I call non yolo maintenance. So you take off the rules, take off the restrictions, but you're not eating with sheer abandon. You're just relaxing the diet. You take a week off the diet either every four to eight weeks while you're dieting or you take a week off of the

1:10:11 diet every 5 to 10 lbs that you lose. And the sound of 5 to 10 lbs seems like oh that's nothing. >> But no, it's a milestone. >> This is 10 pounds. >> Yes, >> that's crazy. >> 10 pounds of of butter off the body. So yeah, every time you you lose 10 pounds, it's 5 to 10 pounds in in my experience is high time to take a diet break to just alleviate the mental and the physical fatigue of dieting. And that's one of the tactics that you can use for a long-term adherence to a plan. On the topic of plateaus, you can when you're dieting, you will

1:10:56 hit a point where the plateau periods or the maintenance phases are going to be longer than the dieting phases. I think that that's ideal to be able to hit that point for a long-term weight loss goal. And so it's a lot easier or at least a lot less intimidating for somebody to know that they're going to be dieting for 4 to 8 weeks at a time in between a let's say a 2 to 3 month maintenance phase. >> What about fasting? Do you think that fasting is because a lot of people talk about this thing called autophagy where if you fast for I don't know 48 hours your body switches into the state of autophagy where it starts to heal and repair itself. Are you a fan of fasting

1:11:43 for weight loss or for autophagy or other things >> for the control of calories in fasting is legit and it's also legit for it. It actually works a as a as one of the options for dieting. There just has been a massive accumulation of studies showing that it works great. So the intermittent fasting variants, we have one one we talked about earlier timerestricted eating and we've got every other day fasting and then the other third major variant would be twice weekly fasting or the 52 type of model. And then you have like consecutive day fasting type of models as well which are less studied because

1:12:28 there's just more risk involved in them and it's tough to you know incur that risk in research. When you bring up

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