25 Years of Doctor Who at Big Finish

0:00 hello I'm Bonnie Langford and this is the Sirens of audio Dwayne Voss the Sirens of audio podcast is not to be trifled with I think I am quite capable of handling the technology I sincerely doubt that does it wor you Dwayne that with it I will transform my own YouTube channel into a source of unimaginable power and with that power at my disposal my channel shall sweep away yours along with its impotent for of interviews my podcast shall become Lord of fandom we shall become all powerful crush the Lesser creatives conquer the socials unimaginable power unlimited rice pudding etc etc do not anger me Dwayne I

0:48 can destroy you and this miserable insignificant intro sketch oh wonderful what power what Brilliance you can wipe out the odd podcast feed enslave the occasional audience but it still detract from the basic fundamental truth of your own impotance careful Dad don't worry I know what I'm doing [Music]

1:42 good day audio files this is the signs of audio the show that explores the universe of Doctor Who and other cult TV in the audio medium I'm Dwayne I'm Phillip and I'm Kenny Kenny welcome back it's great to see you after such a long time how have you been I know it's and it's always great to be seen to quotee Tom Baker I love that joke and I do Nick it quite often when people say it's lovely to see you it's lovely to be seen so yes great to see you guys too all good here very good and Philip how are you doing this week you have you're fully recovered from our Live Events yet I haven't even started to recover from our Live Events yet I'm still feeling utterly exhausted I mean even I mean the last last life was for us a week ago but then I had Sylvester here a week and Sylvester

2:29 likes to party like a lot and so we've been out for meals and we've been to the theater with him and there's a bit of a interesting story with get to the airport but that's another story for another time um so it's been a huge you haven't told me the full story yet I'm I'm looking forward to hearing it yeah well we'll do that off air oh I wanted to do too anyhow it's been a huge week and we're also in birthday season for my family as well so we had birthday parties over the weekend and visiting parents who haven't seen for weeks because of this and so yeah it's been I'm I'm just ready for bed and I've got back got back to work in a few hours time so never mind have you ever done um Live Events or been involved with um live fan events in your NE neck of the woods Kenny yes um my friend Allan uh

3:16 organized a few conventions uh here in Glasgow Army of guests and he did a few single guest events and he was kind enough to ask me to interview the likes of Colin Baker um we had one with who was a pal of mine heh Wilson the other Jamie from the Mind robber as we were very friendly and went to the same primary school but he went there about uh about 50 years before me just to clarify and uh yeah yeah done we've done quite a few events of that and uh yeah stress my friend Mark did some with Nick Courtney and Michael craze in the 90s as well so yeah I know the stresses it's involved so given what you guys have done uh well done very good all right we are going to talk about uh 2 years of Doctor Who at Big finish today uh we're

4:04 a little bit late to the party it happened a couple of months back but uh I I wanted to um get the opportunity just to just to have a chat with you both about some of the standout moments of the last 25 years but Philip before we do that do you know what no what bring we have to jump down the rabbit hole let's go [Music] [Applause] [Music] all right here's a question that I I I think is important when it comes to Big finish um do you think big Finnish and this question could be bigger than my actual the answer could be much bigger than my question but do you think big big finish is in some way responsible for what we got in the television series

4:50 Philip what do you think I'm throwing it right at you why me kind of i' got to give Kenny some time to think about it yeah why not me think about it um well we do know that tur big fish did have a lot to do with the TV series because some of the shows have actually been taken across so dalc um was you know first produced his Jubilee and then that was that's how um you got that that great classic in eon's first series we know that um others um the idea of the Cyberman from spare parts was used so there certainly been Concepts from the big F being taken across we also know that Steven Mofford you made the whole big finish era of P McAn Canon by listing all his companions the big finish companions so there's been those

5:37 things that have come across the show um I think that unfortunately the show hasn't taken enough from Big finish because certainly big finish have some amazing writers and I think the show would do so much better if it actually took some of those writers and got them to write for the show because big finish is still regularly producing far better quality stories than the TV show does and I think that the show could really benefit from taking some writers you know some like John Dorney Tim Foley um Nick Briggs um all these guys um and and then the think about Elizabeth miles or I mean some amazing writers women and men Lizzy I mean Lizzy yeah I mean they could really benefit from actually using these writers it's really a shame that

6:24 they're not and I'd really really say guys you know if you want some really good story ideas you know this is the place to look because they really know how to both come with Original Stories better in terms of you know new monsters Etc but also in terms of just using traditional monsters in a even more scary and appropriate way I think they could really learn from that um so yeah I think not enough would be my answer Kenny do you think we'd have the television series Without big finish coming before it I I think when you read um Russell T Davis is Introduction to the big Finnish Doctor Who The Inside Story published in 2003 by Ben Cook Russell wrote the intro to it and

7:11 he said pretty much that big Finnish had reinvented Doctor Who in a way and was giving some for example I think it was he described spare parts as some of the best drama in any medium ever and I think that was a huge you know seal of approval given that Russell had been writing things like cerus folk the second coming things like that and little did we know how prophetic those words would turn out to be as you say taking spare parts and Jubilee and reworking them and even you know the character of river song There's an awful lot of Bernice Summerfield in there which Steven Moffett I don't know

7:57 if he has directly acknowledged or not but there's definitely a huge amount there based on not just the character in the books but particularly Lisa burman's performance and yeah I think that there's a definitely a huge debt OD perhaps as you say Philip some of the writers the likes of Mr Dorney he would I think he would be absolutely perfect for a tyy wiy type TV story and you get people like Roy Gil who are very good with the human emotion stuff and very much writes the way that Russell likes so yeah I think there's definitely people who should be involved that aren't involved but they definitely should be what about yourself I think I think

8:43 it goes back even before big finish cuz big finish was spearheaded by fans but there was I mean we can't forget the audio visuals which was the sort of testing ground for what was to come in big finish and some of the stories from the audio visual ual were even transferred across to to Big Finnish as well very successfully so um I I think I when when Sylvester was here we were talking about he was getting questions about did he think Doctor Who would come back and he he he commented that the fans never really let it die um so when the we call it the Wilderness years but the Wilderness years I think were perhaps most the most productive period of Doctor Who ever uh with the f

9:29 sort of bringing Doctor Who back to life I think the the Virgin new adventures in particular um are are responsible for the new series coming back in almost in as much as big finish so um they spearheaded a lot um you know there were there were other audio companies that were doing the same thing putting out videos um Keith barnfather was doing you know videos as well um through the '90s and other people too so um by the time it got to 1998 when big Finnish started making Bene Summerfield um a lot had already happened and started and big Finnish was kind of continuing on what was already there but being licensed being the first

10:17 company that was officially licensed to bring back original cast members not the books because I were licens to but the original cast members um that was a big thing and I think probably the the biggest thing of all was to get paor McAn and have those regular seasons of Doctor Who those first two seasons well no the first four seasons really wasn't it of McAn um what was it three I can't remember um it was three no it was Four Seasons wasn't it four seasons of McAn before he started becoming intermittent throughout the monthlies and then getting own box sets so um yeah I think it was extremely important I'm not sure whether you know I I know that you know our last episode um Nick was talking

11:04 about Russell being a fan of dck Empire as well so things like that were a big influence on him uh and in the new series so yeah I think uh we've got a lot to thank big Finnish for when it comes to the new series and yes philli I say I think big Finn did showed how companions could work at a higher level than they did in the tvcs originally so with Ace they started playing around with a bit of backstory and they started giving some background but when you get someone like Charlie and she's such a complex character and has a very strong Arc um M even they showed how strong an older companion could work unfortunately they still not really done that maybe jod they tried a bit more with Jody's ERA with um Bradley W Bradley W

11:52 character was yeah Graham thank you um I mean and and and let's face it greme in many ways is the most successful part of the whole Jody series I think graem's brilliant in terms of in in that show um big finish is the one actually showed an older campaign could work how you could use them showed story arcs and then bring in Lucy Miller as well they really showed that their own characters their own companions were powerful and I think the new series really picked up on that and also you've think that India got an email from Russell T saying that there would have been no Rose Tyler without Charlie paard and Steven mofet did acknowledge in an exclusive interview with Vortex magazine for big finish that The Mention Of The

12:38 Eighth Doctor's Companions and night of the doctor was his apology for leaving that initial big finish meeting in Gary gillet's flat because when they found out they didn't have mean he upped and left so that was his apology for being so rude so we did benefit in the long run good thing too it's a very famous story now where mofet got up and walked out so yeah I think um I think I think definitely yes the big finish certainly shaped where the new series uh would come um I think Russell did a great job in getting it to the general audience but at the same time Philip I agree as a as a fan myself I always find myself being drawn to the big finish stories even more so than the television stories always have done all the way through even when it was at its

13:24 at its peak in those earlier years so yeah good stuff guys I think it's time to jump up out of the rabbit hole and have a chat about 25 years of big Finnish we could talk about big Finnish for hours and hours and hours but maybe some standout moments I've just been listening to um the Sens of time Redux today and um what an amazing what an amazing uh reimagining of that story but a few weeks ago Philip you and I reviewed the original version uh for the podcast and we found that it's still holds up today and are still an incredibly amazing story um it wasn't my first introduction to Big finish but um Kenny I guess your first introduction to

14:10 Big finish would have been um would have been Benny oh no it wasn't oh yes it was yeah that was lame I apologize yes I'd been there from the word go as I'd followed the new adventures from book one time worm Genesis all the way up to the end with Benny I'd been buying them when the First new adventure came out two days before my 17th birthday in 1991 June the 19th is my birthday get it in your diary send presents next year and yeah followed them all the way through so then when it was announced there was going to be audio versions I thought great need to hear these and yeah so ordered it after the advert in dwm and was just ordering on a monthly

14:56 basis and then I took out subscription I think from once they started doct who with the fearmonger and thank goodness they did do that cuz it was the template that the BBC needed to hear to give them the confidence to Grant the license for Doctor Who so thank goodness for that and they still sound amazing that's the incredible thing the sound design hasn't dated they still sound absolutely on the money there's not any sort of think slightly embarrassing bad sound design or anything like that everything from the word go was done properly absolutely Philip your first taste of uh big finish was the sirs of time wasn't it that's right I picked that up from a um sci-fi Doctor Who store in Sydney saw it on sale picked it up bought it stuck it in

15:43 my walkman on the way home in the train and that was my first experience of big finish and immediately thought this is fantastic and I think went back the following week I think there was two or three other issues out at the same time The Whispers of Terror and um land of fear and something else was already out and I sort of bought those up and then there was nothing for months and so I had to wait lot lots of months before more came out and then started um getting them off the do Club of Australia when they were getting them in so reg get them in and then as soon as I could worked out how I could subscribe to them so they're just arriving in my workplace once a month the vortex magazine the monthly magazine and often other bits and pieces I ordered and that was always pretty exciting when you know Che every when I was du I was checking

16:28 my pigeon hole up in the office every day just waiting for to come in and then you's there grabbing it and then trying to get through that awful plastic that I had to try and pipe through and cup through and it a challenge oh it was unbelievable trying to get through the plastic without scratching the case and um but yeah that's part of the adventure of um just to read that you the little two-page booklets go inside to see whatever photos they' taken at the production you usually all the same stairwell black and white little photos are in the original CD covers and the radio times for listings as well yes across the center Pages yeah so as I've said before my my

17:13 first experience of uh Doctor Who on big Finnish was the charms of midnight and that was because I'd recently got back involved with fandom and I was around at someone's place and they they had all the CDs there and I convinced them to lend me a few of them I think um the the three I can remember are uh chines of midnight sens of time and lugaro and I really loved all of them um but the chin at midnight was my first experience so I didn't quite have the impact with the signs of time that I probably should have uh coming in uh fresh with that one uh because I was uh so blown away by Chimes that um yeah I I must have borrowed storm warning as well must have cuz uh

17:59 yeah I would have got into those quickly because I was very excited about the return of the eth doctor that was a very exciting time um and uh yeah so that that was what I was diving into and of course Kenny uh you're being an eighth doctor of fishon that would have been a very exciting time for you it was indeed it was ridiculous I mean I remember when it was first announced in dwm I was so excited and then when the big finish website published details I printed those pages out with the production details production codes I've still got them in a folder in my loft like a program guide and I started compiling them like for the first three or four mean Seasons effectively into a program

18:45 guide and like the old John Mar ler book which was yeah it was ridiculously exciting it was just it felt like something new was happening again the TV movie had been exciting sadly it didn't go where we hoped it would and then lo and behold here he is it and it was it's hard to put into words you know having the current doctor is there on audio and it's it's there before your ears which I think a lot of fans probably won't get today you really had it sounds awful like Woodstock you really had to be there absolutely yeah so can I give my talk doctor to cuz a doctor was one of those major moments for me as well because suddenly felt

19:32 like the series was was the new series so I was loving all the stories of the first three yeah first three doctors doctors 567 and they were all great stories really enjoying them but it just felt like Nostalgia when it was announced that the eighth doctor was coming to do a series of four stories that felt like brand you who and by that stage I was now getting them in the mail and I was actually living in Melbourne when actually this it was the second series but I remember getting that first series come through the mail and being so excited and storm warning just blew me away the Cyberman story AR was just amazing as well all four I love them for different reasons and they were so different but poor McAn was exceptional

20:18 and Charlie I fell in love with and you know I'm still in love with Charlie um and yeah it just that voice and the character and what they did and it blew me away like nothing else and that to me was Doctor Who and Doctor Who was back but you as much as Chris was Kenny yeah I mean I was so enthused by that first season that got me back doing fanzines again so I did the Meine and that involved you know getting the phone book for Edinburgh and tracking down Alan W leer so I could speak to him for the fanine and I founded every everyone with the surname Lear in the phone book back in the days when you had phone books um so this is 2001

21:05 and eventually I got of them yeah but it was it was what you did back in the days because you wanted to know more and you know did it all off my own back I didn't ask you know for big finish official permission I knew people like Gary um he put me in touch with Nick um I found Paul Mars online I found Alan Barnes at dwm in the office just to chat about storm warning and yeah just and then got India via her agent and we became very friendly cuz I'm 3 months older than her and we just got on like a house and fire and have done ever since and yeah just exciting times and places and it definitely it made the feel of anybody who had any doubts perhaps based on the paradise of death and the Ghost of end space which were well very worthy they

21:53 were perhaps a bit Exposition heavy they were being written by somebody who was good in his job at TV but perhaps didn't have that radio script writing experience so yeah it was like night and day really and of course Kenny that's how I first found out about you because I was buying your fign and I I don't know how I discovered the first one but I do remember writing to you and and sending you money and trying to work at how Earth I paying pounds and I don't know I don't know whether you remember me from back then being a annoying person but what those fan signs that you wrote had so much detail and I was loving the background stuff and so part of how I fell in love with all the background of big finish material is because of your fan signs and your interviews and what you were

22:38 doing with the background stuff um and I I still have them all I still have all your fan Zs um actually up in my big with my all my big fish CDs my hard copy CDs all your fan signs are still up there because there as it terms as a resource for background information they're brilliant and yeah that's how I am yeah I said you probably you remember send I remember no I remember sending you know names that you do you know when people buy them it's just the way my brain works I've got a great memory for names and faces maybe I don't always put them together at the same time but I get there eventually and yeah is I do I do remember because it was like sending them internationally was really exciting for me thinking like oh people want to know about this in Australia or in America um Hungary you know all these places that you wouldn't expect them to

23:25 go and yeah it's just it was was an exciting time and that's what really sort of spad me on and brought me to s doing what I'm doing now with Vortex and other stuff so yeah it was it was great and it was it was just doing it for the love of it that was the thing didn't make a penny from it never wanted to podcasts I don't want to make a penny from them it's all for fun and I think that's the important part if you're having fun then you're winning particularly when you're talking about something you love as you guys well know so I guess um big finish over the last 25 years of Doctor Who can be divided into two distinct eras you could probably you know break it down even more but you've got just like the television series

24:11 there's different people uh behind the scenes yeah I guess you could call the first few years the Gary Russell years and then you've got the the longer Nick Briggs years that are still going on to this to this day uh slightly different um setup uh with the Productions uh since Nick took over cuz he he brought on a line producer in David Richardson so there was an extra person there uh but with the Gary years um I I guess some some standouts for me if I was to think of some stories from from Gary's years because I I do I do feel that they have a distinct flavor and they're distinctly different to anything that Nicks produced as well um but there were some really interesting stories in there apart from the eighth doctor Seasons

24:57 which were fantastic um coming up very soon Philip you don't know this yet but we're going to be we're going to be having a closer look at the natural history of fear that's one of my favorite um eth doctor stories because it was just so different and the experimental side of things that that Gary used to try all the time was very I found that most exciting when he did something like natural history of fear or when he did something with um Johnny Morris like flipflop that was that was a big one for me too the CDs which you could play in either order it really worked well and um I think fli was flip-flop Kenny the first one that had the original uh theme music for each doctor started with flipflop no that was back that was back with bang bang aoom

25:44 bang banga boom right okay so I'm I'm sort of that changed as well because for a long time Gary just had the the uh the fourth doctor theme for everything up to that point so that was that was a quite change which I I personally enjoyed uh I like the different themes for the different doctors but I also didn't mind the same theme for everyone as well that made it interesting too um I you know other standouts I've already mentioned lugaro was a big one for me I I really lik that one uh blood tide was also good because I'm a huge silurians fan so all these things were coming in nice and early um and um yeah of course the eighth doctor what about uh what about you Kenny what are some standouts from that period for you uh well I've got

26:29 some notes Here storm warning and Neverland are two particular highs I think particularly Neverland is very new series yes and also the emotional core of Neverland given how we get the doctor and Charlie expressing feelings in a way that you probably don't get until the tenant years um but for me um another real highlight is creatures of beauty which I've always loved because of that broken structure and storytelling style and I still laugh when people say that they don't understand it and big finish press CDs in the wrong order and like no listen to it you'll understand it does make sense and um had a joke with that Nick about that last week and I think it's an absolute I think it's a work of genius and ish is another highlight for

27:17 me by Philip Pasco I just love the the Linguistics and the word play of at all you know as a as a as a journalist or a Communications officer these days it it's one that I think is absolutely brilliant I think it's it's clever and it's funny and very inventive and the fact that the Menace is a sound which I think is absolutely [Music] incredible new entry ish hey this isn't bad did we take a wrong turn and end up somewhere interesting interesting a complication of linguists lexicology some logam Maniacs I keep coming back to the same

28:05 thing no words have to be out there in use meaningful words are meant to be spoken yeah but more than that I reckon words are meant to speak through US handy after a few drinks or even speak us into existence book the lexican book is its intelligence an artificial intelligence what other kind is there if OA didn't write the note if she died by a hand other than her own then her killer remains at large and I'm willing to bet still on campus book I'm sorry we weren't

28:52 thinking weren't thinking what are you doing in here why did you interfere with my I work what makes you think you will get out of here [Music] alive when when will violent death ever make sense would you please sign my dictionary but there's one for me that often gets overlooked that I think is an absolute forgotten gem it's a rather horrific story can you guess what it is night thoughts night thoughts well done yeah I think that is just one of the absolute big finish alltime greats it's I think it's one of the scariest stories

29:38 I've ever done yeah I think it's disturbing it's creepy and Edward young just wrote such a good script it so so clever and it builds up and the cast in there are absolutely amazing where you've got your people TV experience and uh yeah I I think it's wonderful um other we highlights I've got a real soft spot for the juggernauts because I like mechanoids who doesn't like a mechanoid and I think it's it's a good story and again it's got with DAV Ross turning on the charm as professor vassel and uh or sorry doctor vassel because that gives you the DAV Ross anagram and there's some other gems in there like Faith stealer which is so funny I think it's it's it's a really clever comedy script

30:25 and then you've got Terror fir I know these are eth do but it's just ones that sort of leap out at me and particularly the the villains Trilogy as well with Omega DAV Ross and master which I think were all cleverly cleverly done and really did sort of put the emphasis on the villain being the main character with the doctor almost being a guest star so there's plenty in there to to make you smile and then there's things like the nowhere Place Another really creepy one which Nick did with some ideas I think from Rob sheerman and and it's just it just works so well for me as there so there's just a few monthly range highlights that's before we even go into the spin-offs but I will save those for later actually speaking of um Davos you mentioned the juggernauts but

31:11 um that villain's Trilogy that led up to Zas and I'm a huge fan of Zas by the way another experimental story that that villains Trilogy was uh incredible it absolutely and it was Davos that stood out to me and I think it was the chemistry between Colin Baker and Terry Malloy in that story that uh grabbed me I also love I really love Master for some reason I always put Omega at the number three but they're all excellent so how do you how do you rank them um but it was DAV Ross that really stood out to me and because because what what Gary was doing with the six doctor in particular was allowing the six doctor to do things that he was never allowed to do on um television I.E be nice be compassionate um not be so you know

31:59 cranky and shouty uh be a bit more balanced um this is the kind and this is what Colin Baker wanted to do too so it was almost like a Redemption story for the six doctor that first period of big finish um and so that was where the legend of big finish came where someone who wasn't served well on television could come to Big finish and be be yeah redeemed is the word be redeemed like and and and prove that their character is worth more than what we got to see on the television so that's something as well what about you Philip what are some of the standouts from from Gary's era for you just some I know I was just to say just just some um really is hard G is a big one for you because um I mean that's don't

32:44 but in thank you sorry you letting me do it or not um so I wanted to first I was just going to mention the uh Christmas specials they did for a couple of years and so bang Banger boom and the two doctors which were both just hilarious panamine ones what Kenny the one doctor you said the two doctors it's the one doctor sorry you're right it's the one doctor bad fan bad fan yeah so I thought they were lovely um I love the fact that Gary started bring in Old companions but he wouldn't let them be Companions and so just mentioning Davos Wendy padri was in that and it was great to hear Wendy padri back playing quite a narcis sister role but of course the classic companion he brought back as a confusion was in dust breedings when brings back Caroline John and it I think what got me with Caroline

33:33 John with dust breeding was of course she wasn't really the the key person they were bringing back in that episode um because you know also there of course was Jeffy beavers her husband and I just assumed they'd ask him because she was in it and they were starring her they wanted him there as as a sidekick to her being back back but of course ended up being the return of the master and that Cliffhanger where he revealed himself to the master it just blew me away and I still remember I was standing in my kitchen in Springwood I I was washing up with the CD on and I thought I didn't just hear that I can't just heard that and having to go back and to listen to that whole buildup again and going oh no they brought back the bus and it just blew me away and Jeffrey Bieber then was back in and in fine form and every time

34:19 Jeffrey Bieber comes back it's brilliant um spin-offs in terms of Gary Sarah Jane Smith Adventures were the first thing he that spin-off off and having Elizabeth slayen back was just because I've always I've just love Sarah Jane love Elizabeth slayen and that we both seases are great for different reasons but that first season was just wonderful and just thinking this is so good to have her back and of course bringing back Lala Ward originally with the di I say the genocide that's right she apocalypse element it was apocalpse element so Lala Ward being back um was just marvelous to have Lala back and then in in the um graas being Lise Jameson as well and then those two just it was just like it was like cablanca you know they wand off into the mid

35:05 together it was just so natural to bring them back in galae and so those spin-off series were starting to work and suay we were starting to get the other campaigns come back as well so there there's so much in that era I mean maybe we should do an episode sometime on just the um out there episodes where they were just trying being experimental because they tried some and you know shirt so for goodness sake um you can't get much more experimental than that as a two-hander and it's just astounding piece of drama um which some people hate it div divides people as often they do but I think it's just an amazing it's an amazing piece of amazing piece of drama brilliantly acted and just once again powerful ending so there's amazing episodes that where G

35:51 was really stepping out with the experimental and so you knew that every six months you were going to get something that was going to be out there some of which would actually I think they all worked well to be honest um but in that whole first run there's only one really bad dud in there and one shock never should have been made but aside from that everything there's pretty good got to mention I Davos as well in that period because that was pretty much Gary's last project and putting Terry Malloy front and center bringing in Peter miles and it was it was such a great cohesive series and it really does feel like it was written by the one person and it's such a consistent tone and voice all the way through and it's just so dark yeah it really is you mentioned

36:40 Philip that Gary didn't like bringing back companions um but the one companion he did bring back during his run was um Tegan and he Janet got Janet Fielding back for an episode to to kill her off it was supposed to it was only ever supposed to be a one-off but um uh it was it was great to to get Janet Fielding back he must have been very persuasive back in hu vention in 2003 uh where he spoke to Janet and got her involved with that project so yeah often when I think of Gary she she she she could come back because the fifth doctor was there he says Gary wouldn't bring back campaigns the first four doctors so if there was no doctor he didn't want he didn't want the campaigns coming back that was his but but I mean was Who start the companion Chronicles was that

37:25 him that was David no it was started it was Gary's idea produced by Mark J Thompson for series one Sharon goling did series two and then David really took it on for series three yeah so there was a there's a recognition of the fact that people did want the companions back and they found a way of doing this and the companion Chronicles remains one of my favorite series because I think that is the most experimental that big finish has got because they had to find new and interesting ways of telling stories and do some amazing ways of telling stories in in those series and some of them are just astounding ways they found and you once again it's hard you're hard to find a D in there and to hear have those companions come back many have now

38:10 passed away but to have those stories I'm so thankful we have so many from so many companions unfortunately who are not no longer with us Y and of course we with along with uh new companions like Evelyn uh and and Charles and Lucy um we got um we got aramm as well which was an interesting campanion traveling with the fifth doctor for a while we got um X traveling with the Seventh Doctor as well which was a a fascinating story arc um so yeah some great things were happening there we've already previously talked about dalac Empire but that was that was a great series that was that that Gary sort of allowed to happen um to the side they let Nick run that but

38:55 these things were going on during Gary time as as the producer so um Cyberman was out during Gary's time too wasn't it yep so that was a good series series was yeah excellent very good so then when Gary decided to leave um uh Nick came on um he brought in David Richardson did he bring him in straight away Kenny no initially it was Sharon goling was the initial producer who worked she was there for about a year and then when Sharon left in came David and I think Sharon was not so much a doctor who fan but a pro you know but she was a professional producer she knew how

39:42 things worked but she didn't quite have the full Doctor Who fan Gene in the way that we all have so then David came in and David really took it on and ran with it as the number of new series that appeared over the next couple of years were just wow here we go and little did we know what we would get yeah and I said before that Lucy came under Gary but it was actually under Nick that Lucy came wasn't it well technically Gary was the was still the senior producer but yeah then Nick went off and did the E doctor stuff when Gary said no thanks to it and yeah oh Lucy Miller ah I've got my little figure whoa I'm just as I trashed my place I've got my little figurine over there in the

40:28 corner I don't lick it every day just every other day there was some great things happening in the main range um pretty quickly after Nick came on not I don't think the the main range never really stopped for me because it was always an exciting thing that was the the one the one series that I subscribed to in advance I used to buy a lot of the CDs sort of one at a time with the other ones I didn't subscribe so much but um the monthly range was always exciting for me to come but uh one spin-off that uh that came along uh during and it was spun-off from a companion Chronicle called the mahogany murderers was uh Joo and Lightfoot my favorite big finish spin-off Doctor Who spin-off and uh this

41:14 this was one that um just just blew me away and it it amazes me that the energy the chemistry these guys had um all the way through I think 13 box sets that they had together and then we got the 14th season in a audio book format um and yeah I just I just love the combination of those two um Talons being one of my all-time favorite stories uh it was great to have that plus you know getting those other characters we had you had quick and you had um is is it Dr bman that David water was playing you had the six doctor in there for a you had the six doctor in there for a while you had Lea the Jeffrey beavers jeffre beaver's Master Lisa Balman had a big role in that um of course she she had a

42:02 big production role as well in that so yeah definitely jgo and Lightfoot uh would probably still be my favorite spin-off series over the last 25 years um just Stacks and stacks loaded with Nostalgia and uh just the the draw of that is every season had different theme and so the one where they're on the cruise ship the one where they're in the 70s the one where they because they they and they gave a great Cliffhanger every time and then gave you a whole series of box sets where they're on the run or when they and so you know it's the wacky stories but also interwin with each season by season and just the writers are obviously having so much fun these characters and I think you know when when you see the sh Joy I think B she

42:50 she directed most of the campaign Chronicles so she did the mahogany murders and of course this character Ellie was needed and so she was smart she stepped in and display the character and she made sure she had 14 years of work by by stepping in and just you do that little bit part of Ellie and then of course Ellie gets a fairly major story line along the way too in a story arc um due to the supernatural things that happen um in that Victorian England space what what are your thoughts on J and light foot Kenny I love it I absolutely love it just coincidentally I restarted listening to B set one yesterday which I just held up in my phone a we second ago there for uh those of you watching on YouTube so you go there's my series one

43:35 there and um I love it it's I love J and light fo's characters and you know I got to interview both Trevor and Christopher for Vortex and Trevor was wonderful I even gave him a new words because he such an educated gentleman and I taught him the word bromance which she was like oh what does that mean it's like it's like a brotherly romance like two friends were very close and oh I love that I love that I shall have to use that so that was quite cool I got to teach a a learned gentleman a new phrase but it was it's amazing and it was I was so sad when I heard that Trevor had passed away I knew that he'd been kidney dialysis for quite a while but yeah it was such a shame because

44:22 they were all you know Ian Atkins was lined up as the new producer to take over from David he huge plans for it but sadly they were not to be and I still live in hope that one day we'll get jgo and light foot and some form or rather obviously we're getting a new audio novel early next year which is on the way so yeah with the fourth doctor in the first Roma so yeah bring it on I love them absolutely love them and it's it's a series that always makes me smile y yeah here a lot of and a lot of credit should go to Justin Richard to a script editor on it as he was the one you're working with David setting the tone and getting all these fantastic settings so lots of credit to Justin as well fantastic also what was happening

45:10 with the monthly range uh shortly after Nick took over is they're still experimenting with the format of the monthly range so they were doing like three episode stories uh with a one episode story on the end which I found quite interesting um that was that was cool and then after a little while they they went to um the trilogy so you'd have you know three stories with a with a doctor uh a particular doctor and then they go onto a Trilogy of another one I mean it didn't strictly happen one after the other but uh in most cases it did and there were some fantastic trilogies there's one in particular that stood out from um the 2 hundred which I really liked which I think is it called the Stockbridge Trilogy um I really enjoy that one

45:55 there's one in there called castle of fear which is it stars John sessions and it always stood out to me it is hilarious and it's perfectly cast uh as John sessions and um yeah that that kind of i' had there to be stories like throughout that that era that would really stick out to me castle of fear was one of them strangely enough there was another one a bit later on the fifth doctor stories were a sensational to me that um there was one called kiss of death which I think was a turlo romance story and for for some reason that really sticks in my mind that I really enjoyed that as well that's a different side of turlo that we never got to see on television so uh that was really interesting too so what What About You Phillip what uh what stands out to you from sort of the the

46:41 monthly range from that era yeah I I I didn't enjoy it when they went to three episodes and the single episodes I I didn't didn't didn't really like them at all um I thought it was interesting to try I understand Nick's logic was that he felt the third episode of of lack power and they just get rid of us but I'm not I'm not sure that really works I that little inter per first took over and was he was cutting things out and getting rid of people didn't quite work um but when he went to the the trilogies I thought that was very successful the what TR SS out to me is the Ace Ace and hex one when Sylvester MCC was filming The Hobbit um he was The Hobbit you know um and so Sylvester wasn't really available for doing much recording and so there's basically a trilogy of

47:27 stories which is just ace and hex and then they introduced two other characters in The Companion Chronicles as well from other stories and you've got the white tards the black Tardis oh the black and white Trilogy yeah the black and white Trilogy and you've got um does Duck and Cover is one of those and you've got the monsters Gods and Monsters is it protect and survive and um protect and survive Duck and Cover kind of make sense well du du come as the procedure where they all Tau to school you bom goes off yeah duck duck under a desk that's really going to protect you what B it's called protect and survive which is unbelievably depressing in terms of you know after after the nuclear bombs have gone off and I think that ended with Gods and Monsters I think is that what it was called the final one yes th

48:13 those were fantastic and then the two new characters is it Aimes Andra aristedes and Sally Morgan yes yeah you one have been introduced in the actually we haven't even talked about the the forge stories cuz the forge stories were amazing as well so they do some in the Forge and one in the blue house I think it was another one house of blue fire house of blue fire was Sensational House of blue fire so you can tell I can't remember the names but I can tell you all about them that's why you there just screw the proper names so there once again there's really some great stuff happening in that era and I think having the time to tell those three stories this is what they tried to do was you know three Sylvester three pza three Colin and then the other three would hopefully would sort of be a

48:59 connection with where they'd all get one each was sort of what they were trying to do didn't always work and of course back there with the main range we were getting 13 a year not 12 because there's one coming out every four weeks and so you always we always picked up an extra story somewhere along the way um and often that might be four one part stories or and some of those one part box sets um they were great as well like I think what 200 was all one part stories um what the others were called but there's a number 100 was 100 was evil and col are they four EV and Colin stories Y and there's one and and there's four po there's four Pagan stories with a different companion with each one company of friends that company

49:46 of friends best best Mary Shelly because that introduces Mary shell doesn't it that one um yeah and then they bring a Trilogy of Mary Shell's yes which yeah so those those trilogies how many they last for because they were very they really were very good maybe for quite a while or four years pretty much up yeah pretty much up to co times because then when recordings became more fractured it went back to different doctors you got the two parts um Davidson time War D story but yeah it's uh it was it a great mix those one part four by one parters were great I mean it gave a lot of writers a chance I mean one of the guys Matt fitting whatever happened to him started in there um yeah another Trilogy

50:33 I like was key to time because it gave us the the Twins and of course then we get graceless rising from that with Abby stroke Amy and Zara and they were just again great series of Adventures which prompted a a sequel with the fifth doctor coming back further down the line as well in the wicked sisters I think it was and Leela yes and Lea was well yeah really that was there like a box there a box wasn't it it was stories yeah yeah so we boy we had some we had some extra companions too um throughout that like kleene had come back during the during the trilogies and she become the seventh doctor's companion we had the introduction of Liv chanka during that period in robophobia with the

51:19 Seventh Doctor Who eventually became the companion to the eighth doctor because by that stage the eighth doctor had gone to box sets so we'd had the Luc Miller four series of Lucy Miller then we then we went into dark eyes and there box sets for the eighth doctor ever since then and by that stage the the fourth doctor was was uh was uh uh having his own set of um stories as well so how did we feel about the fourth doctor coming along I was certainly excited what about you fellas very much Tom was the doctor that when I was Tom became the doctor 11 days before I was born another plug for my there and yeah I was so excited I mean he'd done the Paul Mars Adventures for Hornet's Nest and Demon Quest and they

52:07 were exciting but there was something about having him reunited with his television companions that really made that more special and yeah it was fantastic just to to have them on board and then when we've got the two runs with the first run with Leela the second with Mary time and then we get the Lost stories as well when we get four from the future wow yes Y what about you Phil yeah I think when Tom B was announced it was very very exciting and I think people probably know by now that my preference now is with the big finish sty is 50 55 in stories I'm not I'm not I'm not still not enamored by the four parts I think four parts is still I

52:53 think I think Nick was right four parts doesn't quite right work I don't think three Parts worked either I think actually the the 1 hour format which is what they went to with the Lucy Miller and I think probably well see they do with Benny they' already done a lot of Benny they were doing it with J life they were all 1 hour episodes so I think big have been moving more more to the 1 hour episodes and they worked and so when Tom Becker came back and they were one our episodes I think they worked because they just had a pace to them and an energy to them and that first season with with Le and you got the aring space and you got lots of familiar things really worked really well and then the merry Tam season is still I think one of the best Tom Baker Seasons yet um it's it's sad that she was so sick you know I think they recorded her as she was actually in bed so at home when they did all her recording she wasn't well enough to come into Studio she passed away

53:39 before anything came out but she has so much energy and she's just so amazing and once again it's amazing Legacy we have of of that season because just some of the funniest shows ever produced the um Auntie matter is I still think probably could be one of the funniest big finished stories ever like I still laugh all the way through that if I'm feeling a bit down that's one of the ones I put on that bang bang bang AB the one doctor are the the three stories I know will always cheer me up because they're just crazy and funny with both one off lines and funny situations Doctor Who the Auntie matter so now the Tardis is flitting randomly throughout time and space yes until the black Guardian gets tired of chasing it and

54:25 then it will return to here in London eventually still it doesn't matter I was just going to let him know that I was heading down to where was it again basid on hble yeah somewhere just outside of itage called basid on hamble this is your place well it's my country seat Basset Hall you see the current owner is my aunt though she's come over a trifle odd of late [Laughter] H I have more ants and I know what to do with just when I think I have the set and another one pops out of the woodwork when beasts expect it they're like mice the errant doctor yes I was wondering

55:11 how long it would take until you turned up give me a moment and I should be able to set it to overload I won't pretend to have a clue what you're doing auntie please you must stop this the poor fellow will die that is rather the point you abysmal goof that's it are you sure nothing seems to be subscribers get more at bigf finish.com so Tom Baker came back in a storm and everything yes number of Seasons he's just amazing and was going back to with L Ward was great when he said he was with L as well even though

55:56 never in the same recording studio or even the same country the fact that they're actually doing them um is just it's been just such a blessing to us and the novel adaptations as well from the Gareth Roberts book were just incredible and the whole I mean let's be honest the novel adaptations range have all been very very good we get damaged goods what we thought was Russell te's first Doctor Who Story We later found out about mind of the hodiak but yeah wonderful wonderful R is wonderful range cold fusion another gem in there as well um yeah it's it's very hard to pick out a favorite from the novels range because they've all been so good more recently goth Opera as well for me for me I think it's goth Opera um not not just because

56:43 it's the most recent but I I I think it's I think it's the best done because it's a three CD oh coal Fusion was a three a three CD one too but um sometimes I think the novel adaptation suffer from being packed too much into into a CD and you either Miss some or um it's too too complex but I think goth Opera just is the perfect balance of that of that novel on adapted to audio but that's just me it's good that they're still going yeah I think Jan Sarah and Peter work so well together as well I think that those yeah three some um I think once you start EI either markon or Matthew waterhous teams get just a bit

57:30 too big and you know to me companions it really yeah people people forget that when the show first started they needed all those companions because they didn't cut and you had to go to another scene somewhere and you needed enough characters to be able to keep moving scenes without cutting nowadays because you know single camera you don't need the companions just you you don't need a whole ties full of people it's it's too hard to write them all and make them more relevant and give them all enough lines to do something we do need are more season 21 stories with tan and turlo no caman just tan and turlo please the other coming of course coming back from new doctor of course was when um they were tenant they got him back and that must have been he must have read my mind there um oh sorry keep keep in mind keep

58:16 in mind that big Finnish had David Tenant long before he was even cast as the doctor so he was in several stories he was in um several monthly stories he was in cits he was in D Empire he was in medicinal purposes um anything else that I could he was in the original he was in the original as well people forget cyber he was also he was also in the Unbound second Unbound wasn't he yep Sympathy for the Devil but don't forget he literally phoned in his performance for Cyberman series one episode one he because he was a spaceship Commander pilot that comes under attack and he phoned it and left the performance on Nick's voicemail which Nick then copied onto digital format but he had there was

59:02 something wrong with it so Nick had to direct him until him give us more panic and this was after he'd been cast as the doctor so that's quite good I like it's a little bit of trivia people forget he is in Cyberman one so yes of course when the 10th doctor was announced that was that wasn't quite the first taste big finish had of new series characters cuz of course I think it was unit was the first one wasn't it the new series of unit uh but the 10th doctor was a huge coup for for big finish um and those first well all of his stories are excellent and he he carries that same energy from the television show across the big finish and it just shines through him and Katherine Tate on audio it's just like takes you right back I mean I know Philip that's your favorite season season 4 um and you know you must

59:49 have just loved that first set that came out yeah and and Katherine Tates crazy and they write so well for her the the marriage one where she's married someone and it's I forget what it's called I'm sure you know that death and the death and the queen is that the one death and the queen yeah that be that that I mean that's hilarious as well and and she's really the central character and gets to do all this stuff and the whole crazy royal family that you know hidden hidden away um country in Europe I mean it's mad ass but it's just so them and just and even how the 10 doctor turns up and the creeping death is wonderful set in London in the smog poisonous air and you get tening

1:00:35 fium so that was that was a that was fantastic to get to get them um to get Billy Piper Camille curri um on on subsequent episodes and Bernard cribbons as well that was wonderful to get him for one or two stories how how many did he appear in Kenny was it one or two maybe two one one yeah so that that was nice to get all them together well they was it all set in like a haunted house that episode that's right they're doing documentary yeah yeah so that was that was really cool to get him on on big finish too so yeah so we we started getting new series so I've already mentioned unit we got unit which I really loved um

1:01:21 particularly cuz I'm a huge fan of the autons the neses first unit box set featured the ne the the neses and uh an issue that was happening at the time so it was very current which is 3D printing it was all about 3D printing so that was um that was cool and I really I like I like that that unit combination cuz Warren Brown was in it too wasn't he and he was a good addition to like he was never on the on TV but when he joined uh the the unit team on audio was great combination of uh of the three of those and there was a few others as well but uh yeah really enjoyed those um what else did we have uh around that time oh of course John Herz actually came back there he

1:02:08 is very much and a real surprise given that John HT being a very famous actor and suddenly was doing big finish obviously he was battling his pancreatic cancer but he still wanted to work and he still wanted to played the part and he was brilliant absolutely brilliant he was brilliant yeah I I need store those again I've not listened to them again and actually there so much stuff I need to go back and start listening to again but yeah the War Doctor stuff was brilliant well speaking of the War Doctor what we know we know well now that what led on after John Hurt passed away was that he was recast by an actor called Jonathan Carly and he does a fantastic job as the War Doctor but it

1:02:55 wasn't the first big recast that we got the first one we got I think big finish was sort of T sort of testing the waters as far as recasts go was it the third doctor that first set that came out all those years ago it's been what 10 or 11 years now since that first set and they were doing the first set more like a companion Chronicles style so it was not kind of forcast and uh at the time Philip you weren't really sold on the idea were you I didn't bother to listen to it it wasn't it wasn't to the third series and they were doing it was it like an inferno um primoid one that's Prim yeah was Prim the first one so that was the that was the first time I decided to have a listen because I was curious by

1:03:40 by that story and went oh yeah this is good so it it yeah it took me three seasons of no I'm not going to buy these I'm not going to listen to them I don't want recasts and then I was sort of sold so I mean and partly was because ktie was in I I think you know they Ed up Katy Manny John LaVine and richet um were all in it at different times or and then they brought them all over to unit as well for for one of the unit box sets so I think that that helps that helped bring me across but now as I said I mean I listen to box sets and everyone recast be Sarah Jane B Liz Shaw there's no one in anymore you know that's actually original but but I'm I'm now so into the

1:04:26 characters that just doesn't matter cuz really it's about stories and the story quality is there it's really worthwhile I mean there's a brilliant lature box set where they go into some sort of um it's a hidden like a Russian village somewhere with step to step wives and and that's absolutely brilliant like who's the other person in that is that is that the is that is that a river song with um with Liz Shaw yes I think you're right I think it's River song um yeah we talked about River Song box City cuz you know wow what they do with River Song is brilliant incredible y I mean I mean it has go crazy and I and non- bigfish people do just make fun now big Finnish because they just say you name name something that a box it will come out

1:05:13 and it does almost feel like that when we start talking D Ros counter measures you you unit it is almost like a unit with bambar and we got three lots of units have come out now in different eras um you know C measure the 60s C measure the 70s um River song war Masters um War doctors it is almost like you do name something and something and we've got you know s ones Master coming out we've got the fugitive doctor set coming out it is almost it does almost sound ridiculous but we look at 25 years and there's not actually that much coming out all the time but when you do start talking about you yeah it does does sound a bit crazy um but if you telling good stories and we haven't talked about the mega Factor we haven't talked

1:06:00 about um what else has been coming out I mean the all the big F Originals that came out they were amazing and so the qu is there it is well it's kind of hard because it's because it's 25 years of Doctor Who a big finish um so I suppose we got to try and limit it somehow otherwise it we just talk for for hours yes but um but I just want to get your thoughts Kenny on recasting how do you did you were you trepidacious or were you 100% in from the start I think at first I was oh but then when you listen to what they did in the companion Chronicles when you had Peter pervis or you had William Russell doing their versions of Harel and you thought actually in some of the sequences where

1:06:46 there longer dramatizations they work so I mean Tim tror we first heard in the light at the end and you think okay yes yep I can see who he where he's going with that and you think yep okay I can get on board so I wasn't so bad with it and then of course you get um Elliot Chapman doing his Ben Jackson and you think these aren't being done willy-nilly with any old person they're been done with love and respect and what they've done since then I think they've been great I've really enjoyed them but I think Jonathan Carly is just unbelievable he's just what there's times when he's indistinguishable from John HT because I've listened to some

1:07:32 War Doctor audios with John Hurt and then War Doctor begins and it's very hard to tell who's who and anything with um John khaw anything with with him doing the Brigadier that is almost indistinguishable from the real thing it's it's uncanny and he first saw

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