Emotional Sobriety and The 12 Steps with Herb Kaighan "Best Kept Secret in the 12 Step Rooms"

0:02 [Music] foreign [Music] tour meeting I think most of you know him uh he's um been with us for more than two years teaching us about emotional sobriety along with Alan Berger today Herb's going to look at um the 12 steps and how they relate to emotional sobriety but in particular he's going to teach us about our way of life with the 12 steps and

0:49 how it affects our emotional sobriety and I can't wait to hear what he has to teach me again today so herb it's really really good to see you and I know everyone else is eager to hear what you have to say so it's all yours thank you so much Susie and thanks Patrick for inviting me to take this time really to Place emotional sobriety in a huge context we're stepping back now we're stepping way back we're getting some distance and some perspective on what we mean by emotional

1:35 sobriety what does it contain what's its purpose what's its content what's its process in the last year I've been thinking a lot about this for lots of reasons which that's a story for a different day all good stuff but my experience and I have a pretty broad now International experience because of the zoom uh evolution in terms of my workshops over the last three years and I'm stunned and appalled by the lack of understanding and the

2:20 lack of connection to what Bill Wilson calls our way of life no I'm I'm not underestimating it I'm not understating at least my reaction to it and it might be limited and it might be incorrect I'm not saying I'm correct but today I'm going to talk about what I consider to be the best kept secrets in the room in the 12 12 steps rooms I'm exposed to all 12-step fellowships I'm not in them I'm in Alcoholics Anonymous if I didn't say that I'm an alcoholic my sobriety date is February 21st 1984 but after this for a long time I've been doing step works out of the big book now for 35 years and uh

3:06 the distance between 35 and 39 is the time I was thawing out in my early recovery in the rooms of AA pulling out sufficiently where I could in fact become conscious enough to realize that I wasn't conscious enough and then in fact Consciousness more Consciousness more Consciousness and Awakening was available to me through the 12-step process so what are these best kept secrets Einstein said the Consciousness that created the problem cannot be the Consciousness that solves the problem I began using that quote because of the

3:51 man who took me through the steps that four years of sobriety look up at the screen he said herb you have a lot of information but you have very little transformation four years so we're going to a meeting every day calling a sponsor every day I have a lot of knowledge academic book knowledge but it had never been filtered through my heart to my feet and my behavior had not changed he said if you really want to know who you are herb he was very confrontational in the kindest of way because he wanted me to experience not just here and not just know but to experience the truth he said if you really want to know who

4:38 you are and what your values are look at your feet in terms of how they behave how do your feet move and I offer that to you as a a very quick key to open the door to inventory for yourself if you want to know who you are look at how you behave because how you behave is who you are how you behave is what you value how you behave tells you the truth it's objective there's very little discussion about it though some interpretation that's where sponsors and step guides and therapists and spiritual directors come in handy objective people who will hopefully tell

5:26 you the truth and risk hurting your feelings I invite you to join me you're all on mute but you're welcome to pray out loud or quietly or not at all but have at least the intention today for the next hour I'll be talking for about 40 minutes maybe 45. maybe 30 if you and we'll see I never know because I'm quite spontaneous I don't have a script here have the intention of an open mind and open heart and a gift of that we're asking for Spiritual intervention we're not asking for us to open our minds we're asking for the life force of the universe to enter our hearts and

6:13 open it to deliver us to an experience that we don't even know exists God please set aside everything I think I know about myself the 12 Steps our way of life and you you're an open mind and a new experience with myself the 12 Steps our way of living and especially you our way of life is what Bill calls steps 10 11 and 12 and he does it 20 different times in the big book it's the part after recovery it's the part after we finish the ninth step it's the

7:00 formula for a human spiritual way of life to stay connected with power but I turned it into rather than a noun I turned it into a verb our way of living very active so I'm going to discuss at least my perception of what the secrets are first of all what is spirituality lots of people have lots of words blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and I have words I think spirituality and the

7:47 uh translation of that would be relationship a synonym for spirituality doesn't have to get fancy and it doesn't have to include God by the way spirituality does not have to include God at least the word God because there's a lot of negative valence around that a lot of resistance a lot of bankage amongst people who are interested in being better human beings but they've had an unfortunate experience with the traditional word spirituality from whatever source so think of it as relationship a relationship with power

8:35 or we could even [Music] make it softer a relationship with life with a capital l whatever that force or source is our relationship with ourselves our relationship with others notice this is the three stages of the rocket launch that bill talks about Bill Wilson in the author of the 12-step program and the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous page 25. we are rocketed into a fourth dimension he says on page 25. rocketed well think about it I mean practically I have to get in the rocket that's my job

9:22 but the rock is going to deliver me where the Rocket's gonna go that's the grace my willingness to take action in God's grace or the the life force Grace or the powers graceful whatever it is that you think delivers you to Freedom and he calls steps 10 through 12 our way of life how many people really know that that's not one of the secrets by the way although it might be but that's not my intention today our way of life practicing practicing please hold that word life is a practice

10:07 life is a every day we practice and we get better as we practice and we get better to the extent that we have a coach a trainer whatever you call it in whatever Dimension you need it it might be a doctor it might be a psychiatrist it might be a sponsor it might be a step guide it might be a therapist it might be a priest it might be a spiritual director all of us though as human beings need a mentor the Buddhists talk about having three things for anybody who wants to live a robust human life

10:53 having a path having a teacher and having a community if you're in a 12-step Fellowship you're very we're all very fortunate to have all three of those a path as the 12 steps a teacher in the broadest of Senses as a sponsor at the very least perhaps a step guide at the very most and the community that 12-step Fellowship The Fellowship of the spirit is very different than the spirit of the fellowship both important flip sides of the same coin

11:41 so we're going to talk about emotional and spiritual sobriety perhaps that's a new word for some of you spiritual sobriety and it's just my word right now for the last several years emotional sobriety being connected to step 10 I believe that's the tool of emotional sobriety and steps 11 and 12 being spiritual sobriety and more about that in a minute and I call it our way of living making it Act of making it a verb not just our way of life as an academic oh yeah I understand that no our way of living as a verb this is how my feet move do they bill says we're in the bondage of self but of course the whole book was written

12:28 for in the 12-step Fellowship of A.A was developed for the bondage of addiction the bondage of alcohol it's been broadened into hundreds of different 12-step fellowships based on a variety of addictions bondage of addiction is the first half of the first step bondage of self is the spiritual malady unmanageability the bondage of self the second half of the first step bondage is Your Life cereal suffering take a look at what what what is your suffering that's a really good question

13:13 in terms of uh inventory what what is your suffering it's very visible it's very objective do you believe your life can change what's the source of your suffering that's a much more sophisticated deeper question what is your suffering is pretty obvious what is the source of your suffering is maybe not so obvious it was made obvious to me by steps four through nine when I was four years sober that's why I mentioned the difference between 39 years and 35 years 39 years I've been sober 35 years I've been awake

13:59 freedom I was delivered to freedom from my addiction a story for a different day before I ever came to AAA but then I came to AAA and I thought out in the rooms for four years until I was introduced to a man who talked to me about Einstein and the difference between head to knowledge and heart knowledge and transformation and spiritual awakening and I was Restless irritable and discontented four years of sobriety noticed pathetic Herbie there free from his addiction but not aware that he was holding bars that didn't have ceiling and walls and floor but but he needed to and was responsible

14:45 for and there was a process that he could engage in to release the bars steps four through nine so what is unmanageability I was given freedom from addiction but here I am four years sober Restless irritable and discontented this is one of the secrets what is unmanageability the second half of the first step it's not clear in the big book except if you have somebody who navigates chapter four and five to call out what Bill's understanding and experience is the problem of unmanageability he ends his discussion on powerlessness step one on page 43 but

15:33 he's talking about addiction there will come a time in a place when we have no mental defense against the first dream then he goes into step two well what about unmanageability addiction only takes a percentage of the human race 10 alcoholic fifty percent substance and process addiction of a variety of kind but it's only a percentage and it's a small percentage it's not the human race whereas now my interpretation of unmanageability has had nothing to do with addiction that's why there's a dash and not an end and it has a it encompasses the entire human race a hundred percent of humanity is

16:21 restless irritable and discontented needs to go through a Rite of Passage to adulthood Different Strokes for different folks and for us it's that Awakening process of steps four through nine and bill says it in the big book doesn't he on page 84. when you finish step nine addiction has been neutralized listen to the words I'm quoting now not paraphrasing quoting page 84 we are placed in a position of neutrality we are placed on Grace in a position of neutrality we're neither fighting it

17:06 or resisting it or attracted to it neutral that's why he uses the term in the second page of the big book the second title page that has lots of words on it not the least of which are the program where hundreds of uh people have recovered from a hopeless State of Mind and Body placed in a position of neutrality more about that in a minute but then he says when he talks about entering the world

17:53 of the spirit Pages 84 and 85 transitioning into our way of life we're not cured we have a daily reprieve we're not cured of what we've already dealt with them addiction my interpretation is I have to assume some things bill doesn't get it as clear as I think I'm going to articulate it not cured of our unmanageability then we have a daily reprieve based on the use of the Tools 10 11 and 12. he says are these extravagant promises the promises that are listed on pages 83

18:40 and 84 at the end of the ninth step are these extravagant no they will always manifest now I'm paraphrasing they will always manifest if I'm quoting now if we work for them this brings us to steps 10 11 and 12. well what is unmanageability this is one of the secrets those bedevilments on page 52 in chapter 4. I am having trouble with personal relationships I make them personal and I make them present tense and when I do that and then I read it out loud I have a new experience with it

19:27 I can't control my emotional nature four years ten years at sobriety free of alcohol free of my addiction but Restless irritable and discontented because I have instincts that go awry as he says in the 12 and 12. I am a prey to misery and depression I can't make a living into my meditation I saw that I nothing ever satisfied me there's not enough pleasure not enough adulation not enough money not enough power not enough recognition I'm in black hole there's nothing that will satisfy me that's a material reality that was a gift of my meditation about

20:13 this particular line because I was making a career living I was just Restless irritable and discontented with everything I have a feeling of uselessness I am full of fear I am unhappy at four to ten years of sobriety none of them were at the 10 level on a scale of one to ten but they were someplace on the scale maybe at the two level mosquitoes rather than at the 10 level white sharks I can't seem to be of real help to other people and in my meditation it was I it received the message nor did I care

20:58 really about helping people I wanted the reputation of helping people which reinforced the experience that I was having in terms of a therapy that I was involved in and trying to help to iron out some of the wrinkles in my emotions and my family of origin experiences secret number two what has not cured me we enter the world of the spirit our body and our mind have been given freedom from the addiction but our will is still in bondage of self I've recovered because I've been placed

21:46 in a position of neutrality through steps one through nine if you haven't had the experience of freedom of addiction before that it's guaranteed by the time you finish the ninth step don't tell me about halfway through I understand what the promises say my experiences when I finish the ninth step I became aware that I had physical sobriety but bill says we're not cured at that point this is the introduction to emotional sobriety those unhealthy dependencies on people and circumstances and life as it evolves our unhealthy dependencies if you

22:32 haven't read his letter that was in the Grapevine in 1958 just Google it you'll find it Dr Berger and I are doing a series with the Berlin group on each step connected to emotional sobriety and the principles and the values it's going to take a couple years to unpack it one month that one one one meeting a month what does it mean daily reprieve not cured means that we have unmanageability unmanageability is

23:17 the bondage of self and that's an organic structural way that a human being has built when we have a daily reprieve what does that mean ask yourself do you have a sense of well-being seriously the word I use for my life for the last 35 years is that it flourishes how close can you come to saying that about your current life does it flourish or are you plagued with serial suffering as I mentioned at the beginning do you have a sense of contentment these are not this is not poetry this is not speculation I'm coming from my actual experience

24:03 35 years a sense of well-being 35 years of contentment I'm going to say something very outrageous you're welcome to ask me questions about it I'm sober 39 years but I have not suffered I have not suffered for 35 years I've had pain life is filled with speed bumps but I haven't suffered because I have the shock absorbers of this way of life that allows me to navigate the pain of life and stay relatively in perspective about it my wife died five years ago 52 years of marriage and my best friend sure that was very difficult and I went through a grieving process

24:52 but rather than the sixth month that I anticipated it took two years but at the end of two years of a very conscious process thanks to the community of the 12 steps and the process of the 12 steps and lots of support people I was able to walk on level ground again after a coupling a couple years this Awakening is the turning that we commit to in step three made a decision to turn what are we talking about turn from what to what these are wonderful questions the questions are really important the

25:39 answers will only have meaning if you have the a healthy and correct question that you've really internalized not just in your head but in your soul As You Adventure on this path turning from self-centeredness to other centeredness I see this now as spiritual sobriety this coin of a relationship with other with a capital O this relationship of contribution to others with a small Oak my relationship with the power other than myself and my contribution to humanity this is the coin of spiritual sobriety Dr Tebow said bill got it right the

26:25 first nine steps are for the deflation of the eagle and depth it's a great phrase the first nine steps are for the deflation of the Eagle at depth but then he said the eagle regenerates itself it has this uncanny organismic ability to regenerate itself and we fall asleep we are awake and then we fall asleep if in fact we become complacent with our Awakening one of the Russian philosophers gurjev says most human beings are asleep dreaming that they're awake I love phrases like that sources of very productive meditation

27:15 maybe that's why today the zombie movies have such an attraction because it's speaking to civilization that has fallen asleep dreaming that they're awake participating in a circus of entertainment that gives them the sense of or the stimulus that they're actually living life when in fact they're just waiting to die asleep dreaming that they're awake our beliefs are our lenses through which we look at reality and if our lenses are distorted our emotions will be disturbed that's what he says in the 12 and 12 doesn't he it's a spiritual axiom whenever I'm disturbed there's something

28:01 wrong with me it's a spiritual axiom think about it whenever I'm disturbed there's something wrong with me in his warm-up too the steps he says so our troubles are of our own making I believe it's on page 62 where he discusses selfishness self-centeredness so our troubles are of my own of my own making it sounds very negative but it's actually quite good news if my troubles are of Patrick's making I'm screwed because he has to change in order for me to be okay if my troubles are of my making oh well then I have hope because I need to

28:47 change and then I will be okay the lenses through which I look need to be regrowned through step four especially steps four through seven specifically to rehabilitate my relationship with myself this brings us to the first piece of the work of our way of life which is the daily practice of Step 10 is power necessary no take a look at your life today did you meditate yesterday

29:32 did you do a step 10 when Disturbed yesterday did you align yourself with principles a hundred percent of the time yesterday did you try to help somebody this is not a negative judgment this is an evaluation of your spiritual condition and if you didn't do that your con my conclusion is that you don't really believe that you need power not one of you didn't plug in your cell phone yesterday in order for it to have power today pretty interesting metaphor

30:18 I value the power of my cell phone or whatever other technology that you have we have is power necessary this is our way of living to maintain our relationship with power clear the Channel with a spot check inventory that's what he calls it spot check to fill the Channel with light use the metaphor of Darkness and Light here to the extent I filled the Channel with light I'm able to be a lantern of light so that I can help other people based on

31:03 my my commitment to living in alignment with principles my interpretation of the third step using the word alignment blood in the big book but it's my word that captures the purpose of the third step the commitment to four through nine which in fact brings us to alignment and step 10. gives us the ability to stay in alignment bill says watch for the things that we saw in the fourth step those instincts gone awry and use the tenth step when we're Disturbed when I have the yellow blinking light on the dashboard I know there's something wrong with the car when I have a disturbed emotion and I'm conscious of it

31:50 there's something wrong with me I'm out of alignment with my relationship with reality and I'm powerless to be in alignment so I pray and I'm human so I discuss and if I'm disturbed normally I'm going to disturb those around me so I make amends there may not be an amends necessary because I'm just Disturbed but in the very final analysis and that's why it's in all caps I turn my thoughts to helping somebody else step 10 has a four part formula page 84. pray because I'm powerless discuss because I'm human a man because I

32:37 probably am harms somebody but in the final analysis the final turnaround from my self-centeredness which created my disturbance is to begin thinking about other people that's the Brilliance of Bill in the in the 10th step he doesn't say actually that we help anybody in the 10th step he said we turn our thoughts to helping somebody else with the understanding of good psychology that as we think so eventually we will act and then I make up what will be the promises what will be the outcome what will be the results of this process the opposite of resentment is forgiveness undecision look at my hand

33:23 look it up in the dictionary forgiveness a decision to release and as the Lord's Prayer says when we forgive when we release them from debt we are released and the Saint Francis prayer says when we forgive them we are forgiven a paradox that is in fact my experience the opposite of fear is trust me page 68 bill says self-reliance versus God reliance that's the secret to the fear and the removal of fear a process of trusting a process of identifying the sources of the fear the exact nature of the fear as

34:11 we did with resentments identify the exact nature of our resentments in column three our beliefs that are distorted and in column four are motives that are corrupt and in both cases resentment and fear he said and we're powerless to relieve ourselves so we pray in the final analysis again we pray the opposite of dishonesty is honesty pretty straightforward he spends the first page of how it works chapter 5 page 58 talking about the benefits of and the need for rigorous honesty almost the entire page of the first page

34:57 of the chapter how it works rigorous honesty that's how important it is transparency my insights and my outsides match the opposite of selfishness and self-centeredness is other centeredness to be helpful I'd like to translate it out of the word service I don't use the word service any longer it's too sophisticated said the said the spirit to me in my meditation use the word help because it has Earth in it it has dirt in it it has frustration is it it you you will be challenged when you're helping other people it will be inconvenient but this is emotional sobriety

35:44 that is course correction when I'm out of alignment when I'm in alignment I have Serenity when I'm out of alignment I'm disturbed the whole point of the Turning is to be back in alignment with reality I don't need to use spiritual terminology or God as I don't understand it I can use words that really can just say oh this makes such sense to me that our way of living bill says we we grow in understanding and Effectiveness when we improve our Consciousness when we enlarge our compassion improve is in Step 11

36:30 enlarges in his own story on page 14. it's an explanation for in Jim's story the guy who put a little whiskey in his milk Pages 35 to 37. he says he failed to enlarge his spiritual life but he doesn't tell us there what it means wonderfully connected the big book organic is written by Bill so we get in his own story what it means by enlarging his spiritual life take a look at the bottom of page 14. we perfect and enlarge our spiritual life through work and self-sacrifice for others sacrifice

37:16 comes from the Latin Sacha meaning holy and flachery meaning to make sacrifice to make us whole take a look at the top of page 14. he has a wonderful summary of the whole process of turning in the practice of our way of living simple but not easy I'm quoting simple but not easy a price has to be paid it means the destruction of self-centeredness I must turn in all things to the light I must turn to all things to the father of light who presides over us all light and darkness we're either going

38:01 for the light or we're going for the darkness he said we don't need rules we don't need regulations we don't need discipline life and alcohol will discipline us we're either going for the light or we're going for the darkness we grow in understanding and Effectiveness we grow in our Consciousness and we grow in our compassion the spiritual coin of steps 11 and 12. well prayer meditation it's so misunderstood it's one of the better kept secrets in the room and there's lots of reasons for it which I won't go into today but meditation in

38:48 the big book pages 285 to 88 is the best description of the practice of meditation how to do it and why to do it that I've ever come across before or after bill says upon Awakening we ask God to direct our thinking this man said it's a prayer herb anytime we're talking to God God please direct my thinking no that's not very complicated and then the books as we think we think about the 24 hours ahead we consider our plans it's all in the book what's not in the book though was this man's experience which was the key that unlocked the door for me for imagination

39:35 I was a monk for seven years I was seven years silent in a monastery and I came away hanging up my black robe and not meditating again for another 25 years what's that well that's a person who didn't understand what they were doing and why they were doing it and how to do it and at four years of sobriety I thought out enough to hear this man's instruction in the 11th step he said we asked God to direct our thinking God please direct my thinking then the big book says we begin thinking I think about my day I consider my plans and then he said here's the key listen to your thinking as the possible

40:21 answer to your prayer God speaks to you through your thinking God speaks to you through your feelings God speaks to you through your imagination God speaks to you through your memory God speaks to you through your Sensations God speaks to you through your fantasies it resolved the problem of meditation for me and since 1988 I have meditated on a daily basis with may be missing a half a dozen times in 35 years because I now know how to do it and bill says in the 12 and 12 why to do it

41:08 other than we connect to power and we get guidance and we get knowledge and we get strength which is what's in the 11th step isn't it praying for the knowledge of God's Will and the power to carry it out but in the 12 and 12 you get some really very I mean it couldn't be clearer as air water sunshine and food nourishes the body prayer meditation nourishes the survival of the Soul you have to ask yourself do you believe it you have to ask yourself in that conversation are you doing it because if you're not doing it you don't believe it I'm sorry I don't mean to make you yes I do I do

41:56 make you I do intend to make you uncomfortable here to comfort the Disturbed and to disturb the comfortable youth you've heard it before as I said in my opening comments what you do reveals to you what you believe what your values are all day long try to be aware pause when agitated ask for guidance the total purpose of Step 11 is guidance if you want to improve your Consciousness it's a daily practice I normally recommend people start with one minute of intentional Consciousness not prayer not reading not writing

42:44 one minute of thinking listening to your thinking in the milieu of prayer I suggest to set aside prayer as a preface to the process but one minute well a lot of people pushback's not enough well it's one minute more than you're doing right now and allow the spirit to lead you forward most teachers talk about a 20-minute commitment is the goal I went from five minutes to ten minutes to 15 minutes stayed there for about a year then went to the 20 minutes now I'm retired I have more time and it probably goes a little bit longer than that I

43:31 used to have a timer when it was relevant now I don't and the timer told me when I was done one of my spiritual directors indicated that there's only two mistakes that you can make in meditation there's only two mistakes one not show up the other leave early so show up don't leave early if it's a minute it's a minute the timer will tell you when you're done if it's 20 it's 20 minutes the timer will tell you when you're done you don't have to be distracted this is a method not a technique it's an action based on faith the Assumption of course of Step 11. is that you have a healthy relationship

44:17 with steps two and three power is and power is available two and three respectively we don't have to get fancy do you believe there is a power do you believe you need a power do you believe the power is available the abc's on page 60 isn't it God could and would could has the power wood has the caring the book has such internal Integrity bill was brilliant in his Construction but I needed help to interpret it I could not read it despite my level of intelligence knowledge and background I

45:03 could not read the big book and understand it I needed help I needed a step guide I needed an interpreter meditation is a awareness not a Feeling it's an act of faith not knowledge or certitude it's an experience not a task to improve Consciousness we grow in understanding and Effectiveness understanding in our mind Effectiveness in our will and behavior becoming a lantern this is my image I've adopted in the last five years to become a lantern keeping the lens clean with step 10

45:50 having the light burned bright in me I'm not the light but I sit in the presence of the light improving the light improving my conscious contact this is the change that is Bill promises in Step 12 isn't it the spiritual awakening a change in the way we think and feel and behave read appendix 2 this is a summary and Awakening is a change in the way I think and feel and behave and it's done to me not by me ah but not without me

46:35 that willingness and Grace combination my willingness to take action and the grace to even have the willingness let alone the action a process not an event think about the dimmer switch we get physically sober and detox and then we get emotionally sober with practicing the 10th step and being in alignment with reality then we allow ourselves and we Foster our guidance through prayer meditation and our practice of Step 12 in compassion and the light gets bright and our lives flourish but in the same way disintegration

47:22 begins when we compromise principle I heard it deep about a year or two ago in one of the things I was reading the first compromise of principle is the relapse not the drink not the engagement in the process of addiction that's the evidence of the relapse the relapse happened happened with the first compromise of principle boy that's rigorous the first compromise of principle out of alignment with reality the obsession returns because Insanity returns because we're not connected effectively to power and the Darkness descends and we're back

48:10 in our addiction a subtle integration of Spiritual Awakening as Bill calls it gradual glacially slow in my case but nevertheless I was delivered hear the words I'm using Bill's words he had a spiritual experience that mystical Mountaintop I didn't but I still was delivered to freedom from alcohol and then I was delivered from freedom of bondage of myself and I continued to be progressively delivered from all the subtleties and sophistication of the variations of

48:55 self-centeredness but the dimmer switch can go down a notch at a time and the disintegration can happen just as subtly without knowing that we're knowing and then wondering why we're back in our addiction bill says that nothing will so much ensure immunity page 89 chapter 7 working with others that first line nothing will so much ensure immunity as the Intensive work with others pretty dramatic immunity we're also sensitive to that word today after the pandemic

49:41 working with others is the immunization that present that prevents the relapse shining the light on the path for others becoming a lantern lighting the path this is our way of life our practice of being turned the world of self steps one through nine the world of the spirit steps 10 through 11 and 12. optimal recovery freedom from addiction optimal living a life that flourishes our way of living bill says keeping our heads in the clouds and our feet on the

50:27 ground he just keeps it so simple our head in the clouds Step 11 prayer and meditation our feet on the ground really straightforward and simple willing to be available to help others in the broadest of Senses not that anybody has to become a sponsor or a step guy but that each person is invited based on their competency and their experience to contribute to the people around them not necessarily in a 12-step program maybe it's your family maybe it's your church maybe it's your community maybe it's your workplace to contribute

51:23 this is our way of life 10 11 and 12. this is our way of living practicing on a daily basis I find that I need to hold myself accountable I have a sponsor I talk to once a month periodically I have a step guide that helps me navigate through the steps and or a particular step more often than not these days I talk to a spiritual director who's not in the program but has a deep understanding and uh an intuitive ability to have a relationship of telling me the truth thanks very much

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