Ex-CIA Officer Confirms Alien Hybrids Exist - John Ramirez - DEBRIEFED ep. 42

0:00 Has there ever been a situation that you were in where you've gotten confirmation of government's involvement with human alien hybrids? Yes. Okay. From a credible source, you could say yes. They know about the hybrids. Yes. I mean, gun to your head right now, you would you would say absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. They were able to collect DNA from aliens. John Ramirez, former CIA officer, 25 year career. CIA had a program to trace this alien DNA in certain families and particularly their

0:45 children were of interest to CIA. The CIA was tracking the activity of hybrids, human alien hybrids in the United States. that and going back in in their lineage in that 25 years. Did you encounter anyone you knew for sure was read into one of the deeper programs? Yes. Did you have a lot of interactions with this person? Yes, I did. My name was submitted for that particular compartment and the Pentagon came back and said, "No, we're not going to read John Romero's into that." No way. You specifically You specifically cannot be rated. He said, "You don't understand, John. This program is the highest secret

1:30 top secret in the entire United States government. This top secret information exceeds that of Manhattan Project." His um branch uh did operations under the sea, retrieving things. Bob, one of my engineers, was looking at one of the manuals was that thick, and he left that on his desk. The title was UFO Propulsion Systems, Manual of Operations. We were flying something that wasn't a satellite. What did it look like? It looked like an egg. I personally had only one I would call bad but not demonic experience. And that experience was with a reptilian like being that showed up in in my condo when I lived in Washington DC. And the other

2:16 I can't identify because it was shrouded. It was wearing a cloak. A hood. A hood. Yeah. A cloak and a hood. And they showed up one night and they just I woke up cop and they go, "Oh, don't don't mind us. We just want to let you know that we know you moved." And then I went to medical services. I had something done here. And can I get those records? I said, "Sorry. Um, your medical records are classified. You cannot have them." Okay. Wait, they classified your own medical records? Implants are real. Yeah, it's not a conspiracy theory. And hybrids are real. That's not a conspiracy theory. [Music] Hi, Chris. Uh, my name is John. When I

3:04 was like really young back in 2003, me and my friend were shooting um BB guns and pellet guns in his backyard and in Mission Viejo. It was during the middle of the day probably around 11:00 noon and this golden glowing almost like eggshaped something and it had an aura around it. It was also eggshaped like sitting upright and it was about the size of a Volkswagen bug and it was floating over my friend's house really slow and I wasn't afraid of it. I saw my friend saw it. Um, of course, back at the time, we didn't have cell phones to take pictures of it. So, I told him to run inside, hurry up, grab a camera, grab a camera. And he didn't have one, unfortunately. [Music]

4:16 Ladies and gentlemen, today I am joined by the incomparable uh John Ramirez, former CIA officer, 25 year um career with the CIA, which is incredibly impressive. There's a lot of things that I'd like to talk to uh you about today. A lot of things that I refrained mentioning while we were having interactions in the last, you know, 24 hours because I wanted to save it for here. Uh but I appreciate you coming into the skiff and welcome. Well, thanks very much, Chris, for having me here. I've seen your podcast uh myself and I I really like the way you conduct interviews and I really love all of this I would call it lab equipment. Yeah, this is very similar to what I had in my

5:02 electronic intelligence lab at CIA headquarters with the addition of receivers and other signal processing equipment, but basically you have all of the components required to do signals analysis right here. That's interesting. I noticed you gravitating towards this uh yesterday as I gave you the tour of the office and you like a moth to a flame came right up to these things. You were able to recognize a lot of the equipment. So, you know, as as much as this is purely aesthetic, you know, for uh for this podcast, I'm glad to know that in the event where I needed to do signal analysis, it could come in handy. And if you need a signals analyst, I'm here. All right. Well, hired. Definitely hired. Um John, I'd like to maybe for

5:48 the audience at home, just if you could give me the brief sort of pitch of what you did at the CIA. um what your job was and how you got interested in the UFO/UAP phenomenon. Uh within that, you know, context, I was a uh electronic intelligence analyst uh elint el. And that's one of the branches of signal intelligence or sigant. And this branch of sigant deals with radar signals uh signals coming from missile seekers. uh signals associated with weapon systems. So the purpose was to collect and analyze these signals,

6:34 process the signals and then to be able to determine the capabilities of a weapon system just based on the signals. So in that sense we were reverse engineering the weapon system just based on the capabilities of that system to be able to detect, track and engage targets. target being if it's an adversary adversary system, it will be our planes for example. And so that's very valuable in the determination of what kind of counter measures we need to deploy in order to defeat an adversar's ability to detect our aircraft and to keep our aircraft safe. So that was just a um in a short uh description, that's what I did. Wow. Now, as to how I got

7:22 involved with UFO UAP topic, um the el uh discipline has very little to do with UAPs, UFOs. However, the systems that I was assigned uh did detect an anomalous uh signatures when they were tracking ballistic missiles of their own manufacturer. Uh they were accompanied by uh strange lights uh strange objects. Tagalongs. Tagalongs. Right. And they were called uh the domes of light phenomenon by FTD back in the day. And so when the Soviet Union would launch a ballistic missile test, uh these domes of light would accompany the missile. And uh so

8:08 that was very similar to uh what occurred with uh for example the Atlas launch that uh Bob Jacobs talked about. Hair's going up on the back of my neck right now. Thinking about it, just remembering that day, I saw something that was so strange that it changed my life. In November of 1964, Jacobs was assigned to film a Vandenberg missile launch using a brand new state-of-the-art telescope developed at Boston University. Something flew into the frame. What I saw was a circular object was a classic flying saucer and it shot a beam of something or a warhead. You have to imagine this thing is flying along at several thousand miles an hour. This stuff is flying along and something comes into the frame and chasing it. The

8:53 flight was disrupted and uh parts of the missile was destroyed. So it's similar to what we saw in the Soviet Union. And so uh I was assigned a particular radar in the Soviet Union that was very unique to the Soviet Union and we found out that the purpose of the radar was atmospheric anomalous research. So the waveforms were completely different from any other Soviet uh air defense system or ballistic missile defense system. And that you mean that they were made to detect? They weren't made to detect anything that was standard, the wave system that you're that you're referring to. Uh, no,

9:39 because there were other radars on that test range that were more like what they deployed, right? This system was never deployed operationally other than at this location. Wow. And so this radar uh to this day is still operational. And it did uh was it was ignored um primarily after the Soviet Union fell. Um less and less testing was done and uh it wasn't really used that much until about 2016. I understand that uh President Putin uh ordered that this radar system be completely renovated, refurbished, and brought back online. Wow. And I believe it is back online based on the overhead

10:25 photography I was able to see uh of this particular radar system on Google Earth. Wow, that's very interesting. So I mean being in that position, you had a job that allowed you uh access to an immense repertoire of of intel. I mean that was part of your job was collecting intelligence. That's what the CIA does best. When you're in a position like that, do you sometimes come across things that even surprise you? Um, certainly. Um, that's the thing that an intelligence analyst has to do. It's part of the trade craft is not get trapped into the same old ways of thinking. Uh, we have

11:12 to employ critical thinking. And every time I looked at a radar signal, I have to dismiss what I've seen before because I'm going to see something new. And it's particularly the radar systems we were looking at um were in development and constantly improved. And so every time there was a missile launch, I would look for those changes, detect the changes in the waveforms and then by detecting those changes and processing the waveforms, we could then determine if there is a new capability coming online for that particular radar system. So in that sense, yes, we had to um employ critical thinking and not get trapped into the same ways of thinking about that particular system. Otherwise, you might miss it. You might dismiss it.

11:59 Yeah. So, you guys, we had we had chats about this like prior to the podcast, which is interesting, but like magicians have a lot to do with understanding behavioral sciences and in that we have to use those uh normal behaviors, so to speak, in our favor to create a sort of outcome. And that's not unlike a lot of the work that you guys did as well. You guys had to take information that, like you said, you couldn't treat it like normal information. You had to extract from it what you could find useful and then somehow use that to your advantage. Is that would that be fair to say? That's very accurate. Yes, that makes uh that makes you guys magicians or it makes me a spy. I'm not

12:45 sure which one. Maybe a little both. Maybe a little of both. Um, so during your time there, I mean, obviously you're you're obviously looking at a lot of anomalous activity and anomalous not in the sense that it's necessarily extraterrestrial, but that it's new to you. But was there a point where you encountered something you thought to be extraterrestrial? Um, yes. uh was talking about this particular radar and this radar will come up and will start transmitting signals prior to the launch. So we can detect that and we know that the launch is being prepared because uh in order to fire a ballistic missile, you know, you have to put it on

13:31 the launch pad and you have to do things to the missile um and to prepare it for launch. And so we have telemetry signals being tested before the launch. So we knew that something was up. And in the meantime, the radar was warming up, so to speak, uh going through uh a series of waveform modes of operation, getting it ready. And then the launch would happen. We would detect that uh back then through the defense support program, the DSP satellites that detect uh infrared signatures of a launch. And by comparing the DSP signatures, telemetry signatures um and the radar signals itself, uh we can primarily uh pretty much reverse engineer the the

14:19 flight path. We knew we knew exactly um how high the missile would go and we knew how far it would go and we kind of knew the impact point and meanwhile the radar is operating. Um and then after the entire uh launch would be finished that is the missile impacted as planned the radar would gradually shut down and it will go through the same kind of pacing of shutting it down. So it might do a few uh waveform modes to in prepare to shut shut down. So we can detect that. But occasionally the radar would pick up something else and it would start tracking nothing that we could determine that there was something up there that was of interest to the Soviets up in the up in their space and

15:05 they would start tracking objects that we could not determine what they were. Well, they were going through the same um iteration of waveforms as if there was a real object there. Whoa. Uh so that was our indication that you know this there's something up there that the interest the Russians there something up there to peique their interest enough that they will continue operating the radar and they probably themselves are wondering what's up there. Wow, that's so interesting that you guys were observing them observing something, right? Well, right. And so that's when FDD started analyzing, you know, what could possibly be and that's when they came up with the domes of light that they were actually like uh liked signatures, the orbs we would call orbs

15:51 today, but then there were domes of light. That was the phrase that actually if you look up old FTD documents they would refer to it as the domes of light. Wow. So wow. That's when we determined that yeah there was something up there that of interest anomalous to the Soviets and that they were studying this as well. And later we did found out that there actually were something there were domes of light up there that we will call orbs. What what got what gave you that confirmation? Well, first of all, uh we were able to actually see these orbs visually um not as a photograph, right? But as measures of of intensity or radiance. Oh, actual actual like

16:38 light signatures. Yes. Um so at the beginning uh the detection system wasn't capable of imaging anything like the way we would think that we can see through an IR camera or something like that but they would detect radians and it was measured uh as watts to radian meter squared and basically this just a number but it would detect a series of these numbers and we can determine where the intensity was. So you have time on one scale and intensity on the other scale. And so all of a sudden the intensity ramped up. There was something there highly intense and then would ramp back down and maybe there's another object of intensity and ramp back down. Uh later we had the capabilities uh capability of

17:25 actually imaging uh what these were and that's when we start detecting orbs. Wow. And uh as many witnesses of these orbs would tell you, what we detected through these systems was an object that uh invisible light 600 nanome was the wavelength and that 600 nanometers corresponds to the orange color in the visual range and we also got uh scientific information as well as to the radiance and other characteristics of these objects. Wow. Yeah. And that adds up with I mean a numerous amount of cases and and um experiences with craft. You know the orange light were from from Travis

18:11 Walton to Bob Lazar to Chris Bledsoe to so many others. And so what you were observing was yeah the early UFOs so to speak. Right. And what surprised us though is that um we were aware of structured craft. I'm pretty certain we were aware of structured that is something with a hard surface and by by by you were aware of what do you mean by that? That means there were previous collections of structured craft. I see. And of course there was a whole uh body of collection from photographs by civilians and other sources in the government where they actually saw structured craft. collections of these photographs like McMinnville, a few of those early 50s and 60s like hatshaped ones and and all of those you're

18:57 referring to. Those um detections occurred long after Project Blue Book stopped ostensibly stopped because CIA never stopped its own project to investigate UFOs. Contrary to what the CIA may publicly say, there was always an interest in that. Um, so throughout the course of studying these structured craft, we had a pretty good idea of what was up there in terms of something that was aerodynamic. For example, something that could fly in our atmosphere. However, these orbs were not structured. They were energy, light energy, and yet they behaved as if they were structured. that is they flew in a certain type of

19:43 trajectory, a certain velocity and they maneuvered. So we knew that there weren't satellites. So satellites though they are capable of station keeping there's enough fuel on board to adjust its orbit so that the orbit won't decay and they can maneuver a little bit but they're not going to make these 90° turns, you know, and shoot straight up or anything like that. Uh they won't exhibit those uh five observables. Yeah, a satellite won't do that. No, but these craft did. And unlike um something solid like tic tac, you know, these light orbs were doing the same thing. Wow. So that's what piqued CIA's interest. What are these orbs? And as we progressed in our ability to

20:29 detect these objects because we made advances in our constellations uh that we have uh up in space, we were better able to actually determine the characteristics of these orbs. And so that led to um what I call the orb working group. Now that's not the official name of the working group. It had a official name which I don't know cuz I refused to be read into it purposely. I didn't want to know. I knew enough so that if I knew more than I knew at that time, I wouldn't be speaking with you right now. That's right. I would not be talking. As soon as you're right into it, you can't talk about it. I can't talk about it. But because I knew about it and I had enough information, credible information because I sent two of my engineers to

21:16 this working group. I got enough information as to what they were looking at. And so it was these orange orbs. And so I got a briefing on these orbs at a very lower classification level, not top top secret, but much lower. And it was still classified. But that's why I included in my very few first view graphs or I say view graphs that dates me my PowerPoint presentations my PowerPoint slides I included the existence of the orb working group as this is the way we would study orbs and the way I describe it was the way actually it happened and so I submitted to CIA for their review and they came back unredacted saying yeah you can talk about this in public so that's why you know that there was an orb working

22:02 group. Wow. And that started around 2003 2004. Do you think that that orb working group are of the same people that studied Chris Bledso's case? I don't have that direct information. I do I don't know. Would you assume that? Uh I think that's a safe assumption. Let's put it that way. Uhhuh. Uh but this orb working group uh included members of the entire intelligence community. So outside of the CIA, outside of CIA, NGA was the lead because it was in on uh it the orbs were found on NGA data since they owned the data. Uh they were the lead and then we participated with NGA, DIA, NRA, everybody. Yeah. Along with our contractors, right? And they met in St. Louis, Missouri, which is uh NGA

22:48 uh NGA West. So there's two headquarters. One is NGA East back in the Washington DC area and they're in Springfield, Virginia, and the other is NGA West, which is in St. Louis, Missouri. So, they all gathered in St. Louis, Missouri, and then went to other places as the working group progressed. That's very interesting. It's really interesting to know that like even for an agency like the CIA, the nuts and bolts stuff, they're like, "No, we understand that. We have that." Yes. This stuff is anomalous. And it often makes me wonder if there if there's a if there's some type of extraterrestrial being out there that also experiences UAP, you know, an unidentified anomalous phenomenon that

23:34 they see and they're like, "We can't explain that either." So, one wonders, one wonders. And I know that uh we have something um I would say this much. Uh one of my engineers, uh I'll use his first name. I'll just use first names. These are actual first names. His first name was Bob. U Virginia Tech graduate had a masters in electrical engineering. One of my uh primary engineers who worked in my branch and um he received a lot of materials. They I had two engineers, Allan A Len, Allan and Bob. So these two guys uh were sent to the orb working group. They got briefed into a compartment dealing with everything CIA knew about UFOs. Whoa. At the time.

24:22 Whoa. So they got read into that. Um and so they asked me You sent them there. Yes, I was asked to send them there. You were asked to send them there. Yes. Because there was a lead uh subject matter expert in our parent office who was leading CIA's effort. And so he reached out back into the agency and see who the other subject matter experts might be. And the way we got involved with this prior to the working group was that we were looking at the possibility of it being the orbs being some kind of so a Russian technology. Right. Yeah. Russian countermeasures, ballistic missile countermeasures or uh we knew that the Russians had something called stealth plasma stealth, right? And these

25:09 are like actual external pods that they can hang on the hard points of certain aircraft to create a plasma field in order to do what stealth does is to disrupt the uh fire control solution to shoot that aircraft down. Mhm. And so that's what stealth does. You don't want to be shot down. So you want to either uh delay that fire control solution or disrupt it so that the aircraft stays intact and safe do its mission. So we knew that they had these types of devices and we we ruled that out. It couldn't have been plasma stealth. First of all what we detected was out in space. Oh. And so these aircraft they don't fly in space.

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26:46 And on days like today, some mysteries can wait. Click the link in my description to shop Huckberry. And even the MiG 31, um, it it went up to 123,000 ft before it ran out of air and had to come back down. So, it was just a test flight just to see how high it would go. I have no idea what the condition of the pilot was, but they went up to 123,000 ft. has the altitude record for an air breathing craft to this day and had to come back down. This is a Mig 31 Foxhound. So, we knew it wasn't that. Uh we looked at uh another

27:31 aircraft uh called the uh Sukoy SU34 fullback. It wasn't that. Um and so we ruled out any kind of air breathing aircraft that would have plasma stealth on it. So, we knew it wasn't that. And it was also moving an like uh it it was moving intelligently. It was moving intelligently. An aircraft can move intelligently because it's piloted. But but anomalous anomalously like it was not at that altitude. Right. And it was performing maneuvers that Exactly. I mean it would tear the aircraft apart, right? Uh so we ruled that out and so what's left over um that's what they were looking at. What could this be? Mhm. Now, in the course of their study, they asked me for a safe. So, I got them a standard governmentissued safe. They

28:18 come in two beautiful colors. I call it bureaucratic black. And uh that's their one of the uh colors. Really? Yeah. And uh so I got him a black safe. That's it's a great it's a great uh clothing line. Uh that comes in bureaucratic black. Yeah. Um and you get you can get a gray one. government gray and bureaucrat black. Government gray, you know, and you look up at the GSA catalog and you'll see these General Services Administration provides furniture for the government, the entire government. You'll see these safes and has a combination lock and several drawers and everything. So, I got them a safe and they started getting materials from this working group, compartmented materials on the UFO

29:04 program. They had to go in the safe. Now, one of my engineers when I was going with this, Bob, one of my engineers was looking at one of the manuals. It was that thick. And he left that on his desk face front just as you have this folder here. And I was able to read the title. And it the title was UFO propulsion systems. Whoa. Manual of operations. So, if you have a UFO propulsion system, manual of operations, that tells me that somebody reverse engineered some craft and it's that thick. And it's that thick. All right. So, I have that piece of data. So, what happened to that? What did Well, uh, I looked at the title. Bob had his back turned. He turned around, saw me looking

29:49 at the title, immediately grabbed that, placed it front cover down so I couldn't read the cover. Sorry about that, boss. And, and then immediately put it back in the safe and locked it up. Oh my gosh. So I know that they were briefed into something that we already reverse engineered. Whoa. So that lends lends credence to a lot of witnesses saying, "Yes, we have reverse engineered craft." So I can say based on that manual, and these weren't like uh defense intelligence reference documents were just like a dozen pages like white papers. Yeah. No, this was a manual. Whoa. Somebody worked on that manual and uh it looked dated in a sense that it looked like not nothing current. Looked

30:36 like it was like decades old. 50s60s. Well, I would say maybe not 50s. Okay. But maybe 70s, 80s. Sure. About about that time frame. What color was the uh was the book? Uh it was almost that color what you have there. It was like a like DIA drab. There's another good one. DIA draft. It's It's like DIA published a lot of manuals that are very thick. Mhm. And they come in different colors. I don't know if the colors mean anything. Yeah. Um but the point being that it was a manual, not a white paper, not a not a um talking points or anything like that. Yeah. It was a manual. Somebody did some actual work on a UFO propulsion system to the

31:22 point that they were able to write a manual of operation for it. That's incredible and seems like an incredible oversight on Bob's behalf to just leave that lying around. Yes. And had I looked into it, had I opened it, Uhhuh. I would be charged with a security violation. Right. Cuz Bob would have to he's he would have to report me. But seeing the title was okay. um inadvertent, right? Inadvertent. And then he took measures to to secure the I see document. He would have been reprimanded anyways as well, obviously. That is uh that's crazy. Is there is there a part of you that regrets not being read into that like for your own sort of knowing? Not at all. Because um you have a building a

32:08 CIA headquarters in our many many outuildings. We're not just at CIA headquarters. There are several buildings in Northern Virginia that constitute CIA. Um, not at all because I would say that being read into it um would have prevented me from speaking out, but we are an intelligence agency and you have intelligence analysts and collectors working there. And what we do best is collect intelligence. So, you can be in the building, not read into something, and be able to discern what's going on if you're very clever about it. There's enough uh water cooler cafeteria talk that you pick up on things. Wow. So, I didn't

32:54 need to be read into it. I knew enough based on my earlier career of working with these domes of light phenomenon um and working with that particular radar. um actually met a woman who is uh an operations officer and she complained to me, I got sent up to this mountain and they told me to look for these domes of light and I apologized to her and said, "Yeah, that was us." Yeah, we needed collection uh a human collection um using one of our operations officers to go up a mountain, set up and look for these domes of light. We also had a collection system we built. Was that successful? I'm not sure because she didn't tell me whether she found anything or not. Oh, wow. So, you were able to send her out, but you weren't able to find out whether she saw I met

33:40 her um not as a planned meeting, but we were taking the same course and the course had nothing to do with UAPs or anything. Huh. But she was in the same course and um so she can play, you know, the craziest thing I ever did in my CIA career so far, and she was a a younger woman uh was they sent me up in a mountain. I was looking for these domes of light. I don't know what that was. And I explained to her, "Oh yeah, it's about these anomalous objects that we detected over the Soviet Union. That's why you were sent out there." And I apologized to her. Sorry. Wow. She said that was a pretty pretty rough um kind of mission for her to go on. Wow. So strange. So yeah, so to answer your question, I had enough information a a priority to know that there was something going on. Had enough uh

34:26 ability to um collect other data. example, um, Russian early warning, uh, ballistic missile early warning system detected these these orbs and they thought that it was US sneak attack and so they brought up their alert level and when they bring up their alert level, we can detect the fact that they brought up their alert level and you have these missiles uh, that were needed to be preped and so there are certain indications that we are able to detect a launch might be occurring. Yeah, it's hard to hide the signature of a major retaliatory strike, right? So, they were prepping. They didn't go all the way up to Defcon, their version of Defcon to

35:12 actually start launching, but we were able to detect that. And so, because we were able to detect it, uh, Washington called Moscow and saying, "What the hell's going on with you guys?" So, what the hell is going on with you guys? What are these things? And we don't know what they are. So, you know, there's there's a ability at the National Military Command Center in the Pentagon. Yeah. To communicate with their counterparts because there is there is a treaty sort of like an agreement in regards to nuclear arms. Well, start treaty that exactly that if there is any detected anomalous or unidentified objects as it's put in the treaty that they tell each other about it instead of retaliating immediately. Exactly. So, that mechanism worked. Mhm. at that point and they were able to lower their

35:58 alert level. But then comes the question, what were those things that we detected that the Russians detected? Right. Right. And so that's when I wrote the memo to uh at that time he served as the deputy secretary of defense, John Deutsch. Mhm. And so I wrote him a memo because his briefer was asked by him, we want to know what happened in this particular incident. So it came to my branch which looked at the anti-bballistic missile systems, the ballistic missile defense systems in Russia. So it landed on my desk and I wrote up the memo for uh Deputy Secretary of Defense John Deutsch and um we're going to give we were going to give it to the briefer, but I think we actually delivered it in person. I see.

36:44 My colleague and I um we delivered it in person to the Pentagon, so they're aware of it. Mhm. Um that's I mean that's really fascinating and it seems you know it doesn't it it doesn't surprise me at all like when you hear about all all this stuff you know as much as I want it to surprise me I'm like yeah it's obviously you know obviously if you guys have the capability with all of the intel collection devices that you have whether it's satellite or whether it's human intel or whether it's you know remote viewing or whatever it is you're going to see something eventually right um this brings me to something that happened to you in 2001 one. Yes. I want to talk about this because this to me is one of the most fascinating little tales that I've ever heard in that you were invited by, let me get this straight

37:29 here just to make sure I got my ducks in a row. Um, you encountered an officer within the office of the chief scientists in the director of science and technology and that he told you about a symposium that was being held that you should attend. Mhm. And this symposium, if I'm not mistaken, was uh at BDM. No. No. Where? Uh this was at a hotel. Oh, this was at a hotel. Yep. It's uh it's in Tyson's Corner, Virginia. Oh, and um Wait. Okay. So, this is separate from the other meeting. I see that. That was a separate meeting. That was separate. Okay. Well, we we'll get to that one. But this one at the hotel, is that something standard that happens like these briefings in these hotels, these symposiums? is that hotels seem to be the place to discuss this stuff. I don't

38:17 know why. Um I know Lulu Lzando has stated that you know he met people at a hotel. Mhm. Yep. Uh I think it was the Marriott Gateway in Rosland, Virginia. He mentions that one and other hotels. I I don't know what it is about hotels and tele community, but we like going to hotels. Okay. I don't know why, but uh this was an unclassified uh one day symposium. I had no idea what the topic was. the officer from the office of chief scientist. I use first names. His first name was Tom. Uh I might use the last initials because we usually refer to ourselves as like I'm known as John R and the CIA. We use first name and last initial. Tom K. Okay. Out there Tom. Hi. But you know, Tom K invited me. And uh I had no idea what it was about, but he knew I was

39:04 interested. And how did he know? because I had a plush toy of a a green bendable plush toy I set up on my old-fashioned, you know, CRT Dell monitor. Uhhuh. And it was a gray alien, but it was colored green. It was It's just a toy, right? So, he knew he was interested in that. And um so he invited me said, "You might want to show up this one." Was Was he interested in this stuff? I don't know. We I never really followed up with him to see what his interest was. Okay. Um but he knew I was interested and so um he ran something called the posttock program at CIA where we we sponsored um post-doal studies of these PhDs

39:49 and they were invited as well. It wasn't the invisible college or anything. These are just uh PhDs that CIA sponsored for their PhDs and then they're following through. Yeah. Possibly later to offer them jobs. Yeah. Recruits. And that's a good way to think about it. Yeah. Recruits even like I mean you hear about this and I don't want to use the term grooming but it's like you hear about a lot of this as well in the intelligence community that they vet a lot of uh young people um early on that show a significant talent. Um Harold Malgren being you know um comes to mind because that seemed like that was his process as well. So that's nothing new. So go to the hotel um up to this um ballroom. I guess you would call it a conference room in this

40:36 hotel in Tyson's Corner and um there were no security officers there look for no and I just wrapped my badge up and put it in my pocket because I didn't need a badge to attend and I sat myself down and there was an agenda being passed out and a signup sheet and I signed my name uh full true full name uh my phone number at CIA and where I worked at CIA all that it was in there. looked at the other names and there were like people from universities because they had.edu as their email address. I see. And their full names. I then noticed that other than Tom K, it was another officer I knew, Jim L. Jim L is significant in that he chaired the scientific and technical intelligence

41:24 committee, one of the major committees in the uh back when the DCI ran the intelligence community. So, this is a major committee. Um, and he was there as well and I I know him from my own parent office. Um, he was there and I don't know I didn't recognize anyone else. Um, but uh I can use his full name, John Phillips. He's he's out in public as a former uh chief of the office of chief scientists. In fact, he was the very first office of the chief scientist head. Wow. uh before that office was named something else and he was present as well. He was present and he introduced another gentleman that I knew uh Gerald K. Haynes.

42:09 Now Gerald Haynes is C was CIA's historian. He was also in a row historian. He was the run that wrote uh the paper about CIA UFO interest from 1947 to 1990. Wow. It's out there now. I there's two versions of that. One is a public version, one is a classified version. I got the classified version and um so he was there and he was the one presenting. So he's the one that presented on what CIA did with UFOs going back to 1947. But this is an unclassified setting. Mhm. at at what point did you think that the information that was being um talked about should be classified or unclassified? Because I'm I'm I'm going to let you

42:56 continue the story because this gets really really bizarre and it gets quite um disturbing a little bit even of I'm just really surprised to hear the amount of people that are there that had credentials like this was it feels like this was of some importance at least to people in positions of, you know, uh, seemingly importance. You would think so. Yes. And I don't know why I was there because compared to these other gentlemen, I was not that important. Mhm. Um, but I was invited and I attended and so um, the paper that uh, General Haynes wrote was approved by CIA because it was released and that's why you have it now. You can search for it. Do a Google search for it and you you'll

43:41 find it. So that that uncclassified version is released. So he was talking about that and he said something very interesting. He said a lot he said that when we were testing the U2 and A12 they were silver and they only operated in broad daylight. Why was not were they painted black and why not at night to hide them? Simple explanation. The cameras back in those days didn't have night vision. Mhm. So, you know, they needed daylight to photograph anything on the ground. And that's how they tested the cameras and the systems um in broad daylight. And they're silver. You can see them. You can track them. Easier to track. But these are airplanes. These are Yeah.

44:26 advanced airplanes. U2 for 1955. Yeah. U2 was very advanced. A12 definitely looks very advanced. And that first A12 um came on boarded uh 1962. And so broad daylight and people would see these objects up in the sky. They were flying at 70,000 for the U2 and like over around about 85,000 for the A12. And there was these silver streaks up in the sky. Um, people were reporting UFOs and when people reported UFOs to the local authorities or to a radio station or TV station or whatever you what have you, newspapers, uh, that piqued our interest. We wanted to know what they

45:12 were seeing. Mhm. What did you see? Describe what you see. Um because we don't know we wanted to know what these craft would look like to an observer knowing nothing about the program to develop these aircraft. What are they perceiving from the ground looking up? Sure. And so we got those reports. Now that started the men in black legend when we were visiting the CIA officers uh some of them uh showed had air force credentials. Mhm. And they were presenting themselves as air force even though they were CIA. This was what years? This was the ' 60s. Yeah. This is like um starting from the very first uh in in the 50s late 50s. Yeah. Because Rex Chaplan as well is was

45:57 you know visited um by gentlemen as well. So like I mean you you would assume the same department that visited people for explainable aerial phenomenon would also be sent out when UFOs were spotted. It would be the same people. I would I would imagine so I would imagine they would have a um professional background um in the entire topic because they were reporting UFOs. So obviously people who actually know about UFOs would find out you know what did you see? Mhm. Um so they were reporting these um aircraft as UFOs. Now unlike the Air Force which encourages you to believe they're UFOs, CIA did not they did not dissuade their

46:42 belief that they were UFOs and they would act like muon investigators in the sense that they would take in the data, right? We just want to know what you saw. We're going to take in the data. Thank you very much. Yeah. Thank you for your patriotism and reporting this to the government so forth and so on, right? Yeah. But we didn't you didn't give them a cover story. Did not give them a cover story. We just wanted to know what you saw. If they saw a UFO, fine. Yep. But they did. The CIA did not deliberately tell people you saw a UFO, right? Or don't say anything. Don't say no. Okay. We just want the information. Um, so that occurred uh throughout the 50s uh during the YouTube program and through the 60s up to 64 when we actually

47:27 deployed the A12 operationally, mid60s I would say. Um, so that and that's what the seminar was about up until then. Up until then. Yeah. And so yeah, he said but one in 10 Gerald K. Hayne said one in 10 were UFOs. We have case files of real UFOs that one in 10 sightings Mhm. were actual UFOs. That's a high number. That's 10%. Yeah. Yeah. Um and so going back and thinking about wow, you know, the CIA knew that there was something up there that were real UFOs. And this is like more of the public side of CIA that that it's still classified side of CIA but not the program side.

48:14 Sure. Of CIA, right? Yeah. It's not deep. It's not deep. It's just interesting information that you you saw a UFO and that 10% of them couldn't be explained. Yeah. Um so the second part of that discussion was about beings that there were aliens. there were actual aliens and that um they were able to collect DNA from aliens and that's when they discovered and this didn't happen in 47 happened later probably they had tissue samples or whatever that they've stored and they were able to recover DNA and when we discovered how to sequence the human

49:00 genome and we sequenced the alien DNA and And we discovered that, oh, there are markers in there that look very human, human hybrids. H um that what looks like an alien has for some reason has um human genetic markers in their DNA in the genome. And so I found that to be interesting. And to answer your question, that's when I thought this sounds pretty classified to me. This is coming from a CIA historian. A CIA historian. Yes. Like that comes with some weight behind it. This isn't going to a UFO conference and and you know somebody like me going up there and talking about hybrids. This

49:48 is an official CIA historian with background, with checked credentials, with clearances, telling a group of other individuals from universities, from different departments in the in the defense uh intelligence agencies about hybridization programs, right? And I I would say this uh I would preface that with like I don't think there were other members of the intelligence community there. I think there were only CIA officers and these postoc gotcha folks uh that we sponsored. Do you do you think now we're going to go more into this uh hybrid thing because I want to hear what they had to say about that? I think it's very fascinating, but do you think at any point before we get into this that you might have been led into

50:36 some weird honey trap situation where they give you passage material? Do you think that that because I know a lot of the audience is going to be like, "Oh, maybe this is a whole setup or something." Did that ever cross your mind. Did that ever feel never crossed my mind? Never crossed my mind. No. Yeah. It didn't feel like that at all. Mm- Okay. Not at all. Um because when there's passage material, we actually read into the passage material. And my explanation for that is this that I was involved in uh some covert programs and it required me to be overseas uh undercover with a different name, different complete different biography, complete different history. I was sent overseas with actual documents and I was told that if you're stopped even by um you know customs when you're

51:23 coming back to the United States or the other customs of the foreign country you're going to that we want you to have a cover story. You have to have a cover legend and you can use these cover legends depending on the circumstance. So I was given the passage material to pass on and also um I would say that because of the nature of that symposium uh I discounted that completely because of who was there. Understood. And and and what was everyone else's reaction to this news? I was surprised that there was no reaction. Huh. And I didn't even have a reaction. I just took it all in. I thought to myself, hm, sounds a little classified to me, but I was interested in what General Haynes has to say about

52:11 the hybridization, alien DNA, CIA's interest in aliens. Okay, let's get into this a little bit more because now now this is becoming very very um very interesting because this this connects with so many other stories of you know, experiencers and everything else. So the CIA is basically giving this presentation in an unofficial UNC sorry in in an unclassified capacity about sequences in the DNA of the Roswell aliens that are connecting human DNA. I assume they were Roswell aliens. I would say they were they were nonhumans. They were nonhumans. Non-humans. Whether they

52:56 were collected from um the Roswell crash or other retrievals, I don't know. Okay. But the interest, the key phrase that Gerald Haynes used was since World War II, after World War II, we were interested in alien DNA, particularly found in humans. At that time, I didn't know anything about magenta. had no knowledge of magenta of that craft and that retrieval had no knowledge that we may have had the craft itself with as David Gush would call biologics on board. But he said after World War II so that in hindsight makes sense that okay maybe you know

53:43 that's where it came from or other retrievalss where there were um beings on board. Yeah, because allegedly the crash in Italy in Magento, which happened in 33, wasn't sent to the United States until Pope Pas agreed to send it in 45. Yeah. 44 4545. 44 45. So that would have been what he was talking about. But didn't and and maybe I'm mistaken here, but I heard and this is uncorroborated evidence or speculative at best, but that the beings on board of the Magenta craft were humanoid looking. They were like tall blondes. Mhm. Uh so I hear was that at all mentioned during the symposium? No. No. Was was the type of alien mentioned? No. Okay. And in my

54:29 mind I was thinking of the traditional what I'll call traditional gray being. That's what I had in my mind. But um no, he didn't mention exactly what kind of being. But what he said about their interest, CIA's interest in these uh in these beings and uh human DNA, yeah, in their genome was what I caught because what he said afterwards rang all kinds of like, oh, this sounds really classified. And that was the CIA had a program to trace this alien DNA in certain families in the United States. And he mentioned a

55:15 particular region that this research occurred in the northeast United States. He won't go any further than that. that certain families and particularly their children were of interest to CIA. I don't know, I didn't know what to make of it back then, but you start talk talking about the gate program and um subsequent uh studies of children and their capabilities and their abilities to do certain psionic things um that now comes to my mind. since um since that was brought out more recently.

56:00 So the CIA was interested in potentially tracking the activity of hybrids, human alien hybrids in the United States that and going back in in their lineage as well. In their lineage, right? And going back in their ancestry as well. I don't know how they collected this DNA. Um, you know, we have oversight now, and that oversight started in the mid70s. Congressional oversight. This sounded like it occurred before there was congressional oversight because you couldn't do that today. Yeah. No, it would be illegal. Yes. Completely. Um, so this may have occurred earlier, right? That they were interested and then um when we developed in the '9s, we developed uh the ability to sequence the human genome completely.

56:48 uh that may have furthered uh the uh investigation into the alien DNA. Um is has there ever been and feel free to answer this with a one-word answer. Has there ever been a situation that you were in where you've gotten confirmation of the government's involvement with human alien hybrids? Yes. Okay. In an in and from a credible source, you can say yes. Okay. So, they know about the hybrids. Yes. Okay. And you and you would I mean gun to your head right now, you would you would say absolutely. Absolutely. Yes.

57:36 Wow. That's I mean that's something that's uh you know my my mind races to all the different cases that I hear right we hear about so many so many so many people talk about this and so many researchers look into this from Bud Hopkins to David Jacobs to you know John Mack and John Carpenter all these researchers who've looked into um abduction phenomena experiencers and the one thing that a lot of people I think find interesting is the interaction with these humanlike Mhm. aliens. Yes. For lack of a better term. Um, now is there anything else during that

58:22 symposium that might have, you know, caught your attention about the human hybrid program? None about that program itself. uh other than the fact of the interest and the further investigation into family lineages that certain families tend to have a propensity for um this hybridization to have occurred um on behalf of the NHI. Let's let's be clear here like this hybridization that we're talking about isn't humans taking No. No. It's it's like maybe in their family's history they were taken, right? And then their DNA DNA may have been somehow enhanced. I don't know what word to use. Altered.

59:10 Altered. Um I'm speculating here. I I admit this is speculation. I don't know how they do it. I'm not um versed in anything to do with genetics. I'm not a scientist about genetics. I don't know. Um, but it seems to have been um a a history of certain families having certain DNA of interest now to CIA because of the alien connection to that DNA. Do are some of these families aware, do you think? I don't know. Okay. Wow.

59:57 Now, on a perhaps related note, and again, let me know how comfortable you feel about talking about this, but you've had experiences. Yes. Yeah. From a young age. Yes. Um, if you're willing, would you be willing to open up a little bit about what those experience were like and what the what the interactions were like? Sure. Okay. Um, my first I won't say it's an experience in a traditional sense of experiencers with with non-humans, but my first inclination occurred when I was four years old. Um, I saw through a telescope for the first time in my young life and I was fascinated by what I saw, stars, planets, um, the moon. Um, and I felt

1:00:43 like I belonged out there, not here. I had this feeling of longing to go out there because that's that's my home. I don't know why I'm here at a young age. And then um I recalled being taken somewhere and it seemed like I I don't know if it was a dream or it actually occurred but I was taken repeatedly at least three times that I know of uh to a home and this home was like set in a Victorian kind of setting you know it's not like a modern home in I would say the late 50s early60s It wasn't the late 50s, early 60s rancher that everyone seemed to have lived in back in that time, but this was

1:01:30 a Victorian home in the sense that, you know, it had the turret on one side and wraparound porch. It looked like something from the 1890s, early 1900s, and I was led by a woman, not my mother, um going through the through the gate. It was fenced through the gate to the house uh on the porch and then she led me to a room on the leftand side and there was a doctor's office and so I remember being examined undressed examined by a doctor accompanied by a nurse not the woman who took me but another nurse and everything around there looked very old like something from vintage let's say like maybe from

1:02:15 the Victorian era. Um, and I remember vaguely of being injected by something that there was a hypodermic needle involved in a syringe and then being dressed again and being led out of the house again by the same woman who took me and then that memory would like fade. And this memory happened twice on the first floor and once on the second floor. similar situation. I asked my mother about, you know, did she take me to the doctor and she said, "No, I never took you to anything like that." Um, that was my very first memory. And then other memories I had was being in a um early 1960s department store. They

1:03:02 were called Five and Dimes back then. And it was a a bin of books. And I love books. So my parents um they wouldn't buy me toys but if I wanted a book I can get a book anytime I want it. So I was thumbming through these books and one book I opened I recall vividly as I open this book on this page on the lower left hand side there was a drawing of a caveman and a cave woman holding a human baby up. The woman was holding a human baby up and above that baby was a flying what we would call a flying saucer beaming a light on it. And I received a message saying this is who

1:03:50 you are. This is where you came from. And I said, I want this book. So closed the book, put it in a place that I could get it. There's very few people around. And this is just random book there. And I went to get my mother. I want this book. And went to the same book bin. Couldn't find a book. Disappeared where I laid it. There was no one around to pick that book up and buy it for themselves. That was another experience I had of some kind of messaging occurring. And this wasn't a dream. This was an actual I remember this happening. Um, and then just feeling like I lived before. Mhm. I had past lives before.

1:04:35 um at a young age at a young age and then seeing my very first craft and was uh with my cousins uh my uncle uh was in the US Army. He's a Japanese American and he fought in the 442nd combat regiment team. That was the Japanese American unit that fought in Italy. um and he was in the army and we lived uh my sister and I um lived with them as we were waiting for our mother to come from Japan. And this was like 1958 59 playing with uh my two cousins and our neighbor children there. And I saw off to the right Woods at this Army base. It's was called Fort Lee at the

1:05:22 time in Petersburg, Virginia. and saw this silvery craft rise up out of the out of the trees. Very quiet. I pointed to it, showed my my cousins and pointed to the neighbor children, "Look at there. Look at there." You know, I saw it playing and they couldn't see a thing. They couldn't see it. They couldn't see it. It wasn't a derigible or anything like that because no propulsion. There was no gondola underneath. What was the shape? Like an oval. Yeah. Like an oval. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. And it was just rising slowly and just drift off, but they couldn't see it. And I saw as plain as can be that it's an actual object. They couldn't see it. That was my first craft

1:06:08 sighting. The structured craft. How old were you then? I was five. Five years old. Wow. And you remember that? Vividly. Vividly. Vividly remember that. Now the uh the examination that they described the medical examination that occurred when I was around six. Mhm. And the past life experiences were around seven. Okay. And uh after that past life experience at 7, I started getting feelings of like I kind of knew where my my future life would be like. Hm. You know, I I had an interest in in being in the Navy. I'm going to join the Navy, see the

1:06:55 world. I want to go join the Navy. And then in junior high school, we had to write an essay on what will you want to be when you grow up kind of thing. And I said, I want to be a spy. And I thought that I was going to be a spy even at that age. And things fell into place in my life where one after the other things started occurring. Not because I planned them, but it was the free will path I took happened to coincide with what I felt. Yeah. I didn't realize it would lead me there, but everything I did led up to my career at CIA and all the things I experienced professionally and personally while I was at CIA. Do you think that was a path that was laid out for you or is that a path that you laid out for yourself at on some subconscious

1:07:42 level? I would say that I laid it out for myself. I feel like I practiced free will. The opportunities were presented to me. I took those opportunities, but and so taking those opportunities, it led me to where I needed to be. Mhm. So, you manifested it, I would say. Yeah. I manifested it, but not consciously. Not to the point that, oh, yeah, I'm going to study these subjects in school and I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that because I want that job. That didn't happen. just things fell into place where it that occurred. Okay. Yeah. I mean that makes a lot of sense to me. We you know we talked a little bit about this at lunch too where I also I also feel that that there's like

1:08:27 almost like a future memory like it's so clear it almost seems like a memory but it's like this vision and it just seems u sort of like frictionf free in in your in your uh way to get there. So yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. So okay, in junior high and then um any other run-ins subsequent to this? Well, when um I was in the Navy Mhm. Um, I happened to sign up for a particular rate as we call them in the Navy, the particular job and trade for it dealing with electronics, electronic warfare,

1:09:14 um, signals analysis basically, but electronic warfare on ships. And that led me to my very first, you know, clearance. had a secret level clearance and I also uh was put on the personal reliability program PRP because uh the ships back then destroyers and frigots carried nuclear weapons on board. I see. And so I was a guard for nuclear weapons. That was one of my collateral duties was to guard nuclear weapons. Um and it was there that you know on my first ship uh a movie came out. It was called Three Days at a Condor, starring Robert Reford and I forget the actress's name. I know people out there are screaming the name, but I Oh, Fay Dunaway. Oh, okay. Yeah, Robert

1:10:02 reference Fay Dunaway. And of course the story was that Robert Reford was a CIA officer working um to uh as a researcher of open source materials trying to discern whether the open source materials may have contained classified information and that little station got wiped out as the story goes and so forth and so on. But um it was during the course of that movie I was with my other uh shipmates watching the movie. There was some very attractive women behind us, maybe a row or two behind, and there was a scene where Robert Riffford picked up the phone and called the operator at Langley and and played back some tones and the

1:10:47 Langley operator said, "Okay, that number is da da." And I thought that was so cool and the women behind us very attractive saying, "That is so cool. That is so awesome." And I go, "That's my job. I need a job that women find cool. And so, you know, at that time I wasn't thinking um, you know, in terms of, you know, joining CIA because that's what I wanted to do. Sure. But it was just coincided with that. Yeah. That Yeah, that's what I wanted to do. And I told um my shipmates, you know, I'm going to be in CIA someday. And they laughed at me. Oh, sure you are. No, no, you know, I I see myself walking down the hallways of CIA. Wow. I see it. I visualize it. I can see that happening. And eventually it turned out that way.

1:11:34 You know that what I did in the Navy was of interest to CIA to the point that um my senior year in college at George Washington University. I major in political science. Um there was an ad in the Washington Post uh recruiting military sigant personnel. If you did signals intelligence in the military, call us. Write to us. we're interested in hiring you. And I responded to that ad and that set in motion the process of applying for that particular job in CIA. Wow. Um, so during your time at the CIA, I mean 25 years is a long time, John. That's a long time. Not really. No, there been other officers who served uh

1:12:21 30 40 years. Okay. But 25 years seems to be the average limit. Uh, if you ask Louando, 25 years. Jim Smivan, 25 years. Ask me, 25 years. That's about as much as I would say you can stand. Okay. Well put. But that does seem like a long time to be at at at a particular um office that deals with so much sensitive information. You know, it's like drinking out of a fire hose every day. Like you got all this stuff that you have to compartmentalize. you have to judge whether or not you know there's there's so many uh variables and so many things on the line including people's lives and everything else. So it's a big responsibility but out of those in that 25 years

1:13:07 did you encounter anyone uh within the agency that you knew for sure was read into one of the deeper programs? Yes. Okay. Um did you have a lot of interactions with this person? Yes I did. You did. And was there any was there any point were there groundbreaking was there groundbreaking information given to you by these? No, because I refuse to get that groundbreaking information other than um the gentleman's name is Pete. His first names is Pete. He was in my parent office. uh he was the subject matter

1:13:52 expert uh responsible for gathering other subject management experts within

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