How to Structure & Grow Your Creative Business ft. Felix Crown | CreativiTEA

0:00 He started with a camera, but his vision went beyond pictures. From Ibadon to Lagos, then across borders, he framed faces, built brands, told stories that stuck. From lifestyle shoots to brand campaigns, he's lit the scene, shaped perception, and set new standards. The eye behind unforgettable portraits. The mind blending art with AI. The mentor building creatives, not just portfolios. He doesn't just take photos. He crafts visual legacies. photographer, director, educator, innovator, the creative force behind the Felix Crown effect. Ladies and gentlemen, Felix Crown. [Music] Hello everybody. Welcome to another

0:46 episode of Creativity T. Woo! It's always exciting to be here. is always amazing because we always have amazing guests in the house. And today we have an awardwinning photographer, an AI enthusiast, a strategist, and a photographer that struggles between Lagos and Toronto. And today we're going to get all the tea about his career and some of his groundbreaking works that I'm sure you have seen. So ladies and gentlemen, help me welcome Felis Crown. It's an honor to be here. Thank you so much. You are welcome. I love the way you said the tea.

1:33 Yes. That's amazing. That's why you're here. We share tea and you spill the tea. Spill the tea. That's beautiful. Thank you. I like your cap. Thank you so much. Is that a thing? Yeah, it's a style. Is it part of your personal brand? Yeah, it is. I just love the art. Yeah. Okay, that's true. I always see it in your videos. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Thank you. All right, ladies and gentlemen, let's get into the meat of the matter. I always forget to call my name. In case you don't know, my name is Linda Auatcha. Okay, so now let's talk about his name. Felix Crown. Is that your real name? Yeah, technically. Okay, so Felix is my name, by the way. I I don't mean to correct you but

2:18 Nigerians have this way of calling it. Felix. Yes. Thank you. So Felix is my middle name. Um my uh first name is Adusah. Okay. Adi meaning crown. Oh I see. So you translated into English. Felix crown. Yes. Exactly. Nice. Nice. Nice. So where are you from? I'm from Ocean State. Ocean State. Born and raised in Lagos or in Ocean. No. Born and raised in Ocean State. Malaysia precisely. So when did you come to Lagos? Okay, so I schooled um university days was in um UIA and then after that I'm like nah I'm not going back. So I started photography and that's what's uh brought me down to Lagos. M interesting. Yeah. So why is it that everybody always likes coming to Lagos once you were in that

3:05 field? Because I'm sure you probably would still get clients. You get clients in you know the funny thing is I never liked Lagos. Please don't don't I'm sorry it's out already. The tea is out already. Okay. So I I wasn't a fan of Lagos because at the time Lagos was really rowdy. A lot of people were in Lagos. I remember traveling down to Lagos in my teen years and it was I was like why are you guys staying in this chaotic environment? But when I started photography um most of the people that were calling me for jobs were calling from Lagos thinking I was actually based in Lagos. So I would have to travel down from Ibadon to Lagos. I mean I eat the fact that I was based in Ibadon and then do the job then travel

3:50 back. Wow. So that was it. And then when um I saw that it 90% of my clients were really calling from Los I'm like you know what how about I just um relocate and move down to Lagos. So I stayed with a friend for about 9 months then got my place and all that. So that's how the that's how it all started. That's an amazing story. Uh, so what do you think attracted them to you? I think it was my work. I Yes, cuz I mean I did not know anybody in Lagos. I was just doing a lot of collaborative work basically beauty headsh shots and all of that and there is this peak interest that they have in my work and people started calling and like okay please I would like to book and all of

4:36 that where are you based? I'm like a bad dog. I mean in the first um um few times that they reached out and all of that and they were like wow I thought you were in Los I thought you were in Lagos and then I said you know what I'm in Lagos so where are you based I said oh A and all of that and then they'll be like okay please would we like to come to you for a beauty headsh shot I mean looking at it in retrospect I wouldn't say my work was really grand but I feel like at least it was something new in the market at the time it was around the time that retouched was really coming out to be a major thing in the industry. A lot of people take pictures and just basic edits, but I extended my skill into retouching and I mean to make the face look beautiful and all of that. And

5:24 I think it's what really drew them in and um started calling me and all of that. How did you learn about retouching then? Um it was YouTube. Okay. A few photographers that I follow at the time were doing it but there wasn't any practical or how to go about it. Then I went on YouTube and I I was like okay what's the difference between um Nigerian photographers when it comes to the beauty and then international photographers and I found something called retouching dodge and bond and all of that. It was really new cuz I thought just click and deliver and then I was like okay let me learn it and I started learning it and it was really a game changer because I know I shoot a lot of women and they love to look beautiful. Of course. Of course.

6:10 They love to look beautiful. So I mean not in a deceptive way but just to enhance it. Yes, that was it. Interesting. So your whole career is based off of YouTube. Yes. Okay. So, I remember correctly when I was reading through your bio that you studied agricultural economics, right? Yes, I did. And then it was at NYC that you took up photography. Why? So, um I took up photography during NY professionally, but I started shooting. So, um in my department there's something called the farm year, which is like the practical year. And then I remember my dad getting a very small digital camera, the one that rolls forward when you put it on,

6:56 very very small. And um he just wanted me to record the farm years just to have memories and all of that. So which I did. I took a lot of pictures on the farm during the practical years. I even took pictures of my friends and everything. And at the end of the farm year uh we were supposed to present and I found a lot of my friends coming to me and saying oh the pictures that you took please can I go through and see if my pictures are there so I can use it as supporting visuals for my presentation. I had a whole lot from my own end and it was easy for me to use pictures as my presentations and all of that. So it's kind of intriguing. Then during NYC um I just took a few pictures, collaborative pictures and all of that and the major thing that stood

7:42 out with taking pictures of people is them asking this question of wow is this me. So it created a form of joy that oh is this me this looks good like a lot of picture don't a lot of people don't see pictures as something that reveals the part of themsel that they don't even know about. You understand? So it was one of the major things that I'm like okay this could be a good um way to delve into photography and I remember also during the uh farm year I was already thinking about what's next what's the next thing to do am I going to do 9 to5 not like it's bad but it's just a lot of pro thought process that went into it and at one point I was like you know what let me think about my growing up how did how was it and all of

8:28 that and tracing it back It felt like it was something that has always been with me along the line and all of that. So, you know what? I said, "Let me delve into it. Let's see what this road will take me." And what did what did your parents say when you told them you were doing photo? They they were really shocked. They asked over and over and over again, "Are you sure this is what you wanted to do?" I mean my my dad was very very supportive but he did not fully believe you know that supportive friend that do not truly believe like you will wake up from this slumber one day and then I was going and going and then one day he asked me are you sure this is what you actually want to do and I said yes and then he was like okay no problem you have my full support

9:14 so I mean I would say I'm one of the lucky ones to have a very supportive parent because I know that uh you know after spending so much money in and all that. But would you say that your education somehow impacted your work? Yes, I believe it did. Um, I would say it did in terms of critical thinking. Okay. In terms of team work, you understand? Um, yeah. And in terms of presentation, how I present myself. Um, the fact that I went through school and school passed through me like they say. Yeah. I I feel like it's shaped my mindset and how I present myself overall. Yeah. So, it's really impactful. Okay. So, you learned about the whole photography thing from YouTube. Yes.

10:00 Where did you learn the business? Because a lot of people are photographers, but not all of them are successful even though they might even be as talented as you are, but the business is another thing that most creatives struggle with. Right. So, did you learn that or did it just come to you naturally? No. I I never liked business. You understand? While I was doing photography, you never liked business. I never liked business. I never liked business. When I was doing photography, it was the creativity. It was the art. It was a passion. I was all going all out and trying to, you know, create and create and create until it started burning me. Cuz when you don't balance passion and business, you get BS. Yeah. So it came

10:45 to a point where I started learning from my mistake like okay what is what is going on then I went online tried to you know the business landscape in Nigeria is different from the business landscape so I had mentors international mentors that I watched their videos and how they run their business but it's not applicable in Nigeria like a whole lot of dynamics that I tried to understand through my mistakes so I would say that I learned the business aspect It's basically from my mistakes, you understand? And trying to try trial and error. Okay, how about I start sending invoice to clients? And then one client was like, when did that one start? When did you start sending invoice? Because all the time it is just

11:31 um account number and this and then when did you start? And then I lost a lot of clients on that. And then I tried contract. Yes, I did. I tried writing contract. you know, you know, Nigerians, I tried to write a contract. I be like, I don't understand. Are you trying to box me or what's going on? Please, goodbye. You understand? So, I tried it and and then a lot of people accepted it. Basically, people from the from that understands the business aspect of things and a lot of clients I lost them because oh, now you're becoming rigid, now you're becoming this. So business came to me from a lot of trial and error application of what I've learned from my mentors and all of that. And I had a Nigerian photographer who was a mentor

12:16 his name is Spotlight that I would always call like I don't know how to address this. What do you think? And he would guide me through and all of that. So that's basically how I learned it. And that is why I took it upon myself to mentor upcoming photographers and say you know what the business is actually what you need. I understand the passion, but you need to learn the business of photography. We're going to come to that mentorship part really soon. Um, I still want to dwell a bit more on the business. Do you know why? Yeah. Because the first time I ever heard about you, you was because of business. It was like I I Okay, so I work with I'm sure you didn't know, but I work with Aspir Nigeria. You had done some photos of Adisa for them. Yeah. Before I joined. Oh, wow. That's

13:02 beautiful. Yes. So when I joined, I started hearing things like, "Oh, we're supposed to pay for billboard rights. We're supposed to pay for image rights." So, and they were like, "Wait, wait, where is this?" So, I was like, and I kept asking them, "Didn't you guys have this discussion before?" And they were like, "No, you know, because they were they've done it with some other photographers, but you were different." So, that was the first time I heard about Felis Gr. I was like, "Okay, a creative that is all about his business." Because most photographers in Nigeria, most people in Nigeria don't charge that way like oh okay the billboard right is different from this right is different from that. So that's why I kept asking you how did you come about this? How did you learn about this structure and have you been implementing

13:48 it? Has it been successful especially in this climb where people don't understand you know that there are certain rights yes they're supposed to pay for after taking the picture because they believe when I take the picture it's mine. So you break it down. Okay. Okay. That's a that's a very amazing one. I mean I didn't know this. I remember the project very well and um it was actually written in my invoice that the licensing for this is for social media and it is complimentary. If you're going to be putting it on billboard I would have to be charging this. You understand? There was a lot of back and forth from that project I believe. and eventually they paid of course not my original rates but because of um my mentor which is banking w was

14:36 involved and all of that. So um in in this part of the world it is very hard to implement that but I was key on it. I was really el that no this is how I know things are supposed to be and I know my right as a photographer you understand. So I really tried as much as possible to let them know if you're booking me, you're paying for creative fee, you're paying for licency fee. I need to know the usage. There are different questions that I ask my clients just to understand um their objective, what they are trying to create, their vision. And I feel like this is one part where a lot of photographers don't um try to ask. If a client, if a commercial client is going to reach out to you, they're just going

15:21 to tell you, "We want to do a shoot for this, for that, and that's it." Cuz they will withhold the other necessary information just so they know if you're going to ask the right questions. So, it is left for you as a creative, as a photographer to go ahead and say, "Okay, what is the usage of these images? What is expected deliverables? Um, how long are they going to be useful for this commercial reason? What platforms are they going on? Are they going on social media? Are they going on billboards? Are they going on inhouse marketing platforms? And are they going on prints and all of that? Cuz you have the right to charge for this. And um it is very very important. I I feel like that is why the creative part or the um creative industry when it comes to photography is really dragging

16:08 because these are normal royalties that people are supposed to pay you for. Do you understand? So it is important to understand this. Ask them questions, let them know. If you're using it for two years on the billboard, you charge for that. If it's one year on a billboard, you have to charge for licensing for that as well. But there's a lot of bottlenecks as that comes with this. So, how do you overcome them? Because this is Nigeria. A lot of clients will not understand this. So, how do you Okay. So, one way that I've tried to um which has been proven over time that it has worked to handle this is to include your creative fee, your licensing fee into a O. Do not break it down. Don't break it down into bit and say um gear fee, licensing fee and all of that. They will try to beat everything down.

16:55 Just put it as a O and charge it. So, what I do is charge a day rate inclusive of all of these. So when I ask these questions and I understand the direction and everything, I just give you a day rate and I tell you of course I'm very very um detailed. I'll let you know this includes creative fee, gear fee, licensing fee for billboard and social media or whatnot and all of that. And that's why I've been able to solve it because trust me when I started working uh with commercial brands and I break this down, they would always run away. Not that they don't know this, but they, you know, they always try to break prices to go for the most affordable um photographer. So, that's what I learned and I had to put it and then it's it's been working.

17:40 But you're not the most affordable photographer. Your prices are like high up there, right? Oh, well, um it's relative. I mean for the craft for the work that I do I believe um I I'm charging exactly my worth. Okay. So let's even talk about the craft now. There's this thing called the Felix crown effect, right? Thank you. Thank you. How did that come about? Okay, so uh it's very simple. It's just one of the times that I was looking for a cash phrase for my work. Okay, you understand? And um I just love the language effect. So I'm like okay. I started putting it as the Philix ran effect on whatever client that I'm

18:26 shooting. If I'm shooting Linda, the fix effect on Linda. So it begins to resonate with clients in a different way. I mean the idea of that effect is to give you an experience that is peculiar to you from me to you that you cannot get elsewhere. And people started attaching a meaning to it. an experience to it, a feeling to it. Cuz this I'm very very big on selling feelings. I sell I don't sell pictures, I sell feeling, I sell experience. So even if client is trying to relate a feedback to me, maybe they don't um the the pictures is not up to what they expecting. I mean we have this happen sometimes. They just try to explain and at the end they'll be

19:12 like it doesn't have the Felix ran effect. I mean I would say I don't know this these ingredients that you're talking about but but deep down I understand what they mean and then I go back try to so it starts from shoot to finer delivery finer edits and all of that. So it's stuck on as a promise that clients begins to see and be like I want the Felix Tron effect. Oh nice. So it means that you because you said something like you were looking for a catchphrase. So it means that you were consciously from beginning branding yourself right? Yes. Yes. Yes. It has been intentional from the onset. How did you learn about branding? I I didn't learn it. I just felt like I wanted to be different.

19:58 So it was later on in the years that I found out that it was called branding. I just like to be different. I mean I'm wearing an art now. Nobody here is wearing an art. So the feeling of being different is just what drove me to picking up some things along the line. And when I was now intentional about learning branding, I figured out that I was an um unconscious competence. That is doing things without even knowing that it was the right thing I was doing. So I found out that oh this this is what I've been doing. So it is real. So I like I was I was just going on and on and on learning about branding and applying it to my personal brand and my uh overall brand at the at the end of the day. Yeah. So now describe your personal brand.

20:46 Okay. So my personal brand would be inspirational. Um that's actually a good question. You know I've not thought about I've not thought about describing my personal brand before. Okay. So it would be inspirational, aspirational. Um I would say um someone who likes a daredevil, someone who just likes to try things out to see what can come out of this. You understand? Just give it a shot. What else can we at least we can't die? We won't die. So yeah, I believe that is how I would really represent it and um define it. I think I would take that as an assignment. Yeah. Yeah, because a lot of people would be able to look at you and draw a

21:32 perception of you based on what they see, but you too has to be you have to be conscious about what you're putting out, you know, there. And thank you very much for being very very um how do I put this structured with your business because photography business, I know a lot of people would just want to take it up. Oh, let me just be a photographer. But they have the likes of you to look up to with the way you structured everything and you consciously building a brand to the extent that he's wearing a cap. So it's not just about the Fenix crown effect on his work, even his personal branding too. And you're doing some videos online as well to teach people. So I I I think it's really commendable and thank you so much. Yes, thank you for for for doing that. All right, so we will continue our discussion. I think we're on personal

22:18 branding now. Um so now let's move over to AI and and that's one thing that I also like about what you're doing. Um you are evolving you know you you you've been there you know you have the felis crown effect you're doing your stuff but when AI came you also knew that you still needed to evolve and start integrating AI into your work. So what was the first when was the first time you discovered AI and how has it really helped your business? Okay. So the first time I discovered AI was in 2023. I believe that was when Midjourney was becoming a thing. It was on version two there about at the time. It was still on discord. It it has not come into the web um platform yet. And it was intriguing. What do you mean

23:04 I need to just type something and then an image will come out? Like how do you know these things? How do you know to piece this? So uh um I'm a very very curious person. Very very curious. So I was so curious about this. I'm like I need to understand what exactly this is doing. And then I put on a prompt about what I'm imagining and it brought it out. Not close but the fact that it was really amazing. I'm like wow this is great. And then you understand the evolution of AI the way it has gone progressively over the years. It is amazing. By the end of 2023 we are already on probably version four or something and it was really mindblowing. So I was at a point then that I felt like I mean at that point my clients were still very okay

23:52 with my work but I felt tired of the work that I was creating. M we have limited locations in Lagos to shoot in if a new location drops you know Losians we've gone there we've shot there you and all of that and I was getting really tired static backgrounds images I was tired I'm this one person or this one photographer that likes to put interest in my work I want to be able to sell experience emotions in a very different way by putting interest in my work, the way I light, the way I put overlays, light leaks and all of that. And when I wanted to put in AI, I was like, okay, how about I create a different background and have my client I put my

24:39 clients in it just to enhance the storytelling of pictures and all of that. It was pretty hard to do, but at the end of the day, I figured it out. A lot of trial and error and all of that. And I figured it out eventually and it was like, okay, let me stick on this. I showed a few of my clients, they were really in love with it. They loved it so much. I'm like, "Okay, this is one direction that I would love to take." I started charging an extra buck for it. Slowly, slowly increasing the fees, increasing the fees. And people were really like accepting it. It was they were adopting it like okay, this is something because I sold it as a part of storytelling. Yeah. So that so it didn't just impact your work, it also impact the finances because you had

25:26 to start charging extra. Exactly. For it the business. So apart from you coming in and I'm shooting you for a fee. Yeah. If you want that background that elevation, I charge you an extra for it as well. Interesting. I like that. So you were not one of those that were scared that oh AI is coming to take away our jobs because you know some people be like oh I give AI my picture and then it comes gives me a good background and all of that so you're not scared of that? Oh, I wasn't. It was just another tool, you know, in the um when when digital digital camera came in. Yeah. Photographers, painters, and everybody were scared that we're using analog. So,

26:11 it's the same thing. It's just times repeating itself. History Exactly. repeating itself. So, I saw it as another tool that I can use to enhance my storytelling, not as a tool for deception because I'm very open with it. Like, I do it, I use this, you understand? And for a fact it is not even new because there is an aspect of photography where superimposition and composite comes in where people piece elements together. But what AI has been able to do is put all these elements into one picture and I'm just able to just superimpose it. So it is just to enhance. I don't see it as it coming to take my my craft. In fact, I'm using it to make more money. So yeah, kudos.

26:58 Yeah. So yeah, another question I wanted to ask is I think you already touched on it because you know with the use of AI sometimes it can be overused and then everything now starts to look you know robotic and all of that. So how do you ensure that you are still able to maintain authenticity even while using artificial intelligence? Yeah that's a beautiful question. That's a very wonderful question. So authenticity comes from intention. Okay, not from the tool that you're using. What is my intention with using this tool? I am not going to shoot you now and then put it into AI and AI will change your face, change your makeup and all of that just so I can make it look entirely different from you. No, it is still enhancing the story that you want to tell at the end of the day. So the

27:44 intention is to make sure that I tell the right story, sell the right story and present it as I use this tool to be able to tell this story very well. And so it's still very authentic but the end result okay for example if you look at um movies or stories from Marvel you you will understand that they are authentic stories but I mean we understand that they are not real yes but they able to exactly fiction but I'm not selling fiction I'm selling realism at the end of the day because these locations are actually possible locations as well you understand it is possible locations just that we are limited in accessibility in this part of the If I am currently in a space where I have everything in front of me, there wouldn't be any reason to adopt AI into

28:31 it. You understand? And adopting a is not even limited to just background creation. All of that is extensive. And the beautiful part of this if I tell you is that it has even increased my creative level even more than 5 years ago. For real. Like I studied what it creates. I studied the lighting and everything. I'm like this is good then I can apply it to my work so my imagination comes into visual representation even better and I'm looking at things like I'm looking at a scenario like why not create this you understand instead of having to think about it is not possible I'm like it is possible I can create this so that

29:17 is how I've been able to balance the authentic aspect so even AI you using AI is also making you better at your photography job. Yes, it is. That's interesting. Yes. Great. Oh my. Okay. Okay. H it's very interesting. Thank you. So for so far you've been working with brands and you've been working with personal um clients as well. Um, you've been using AI for both or just for the because I know I've seen some of your work and most of the AI stuff is for personal clients like the one with Kiki and and the rest. Have you also been adapting AI for commercial shoots as well? Um, yes. However, we've not done one, but there is this one that is underway

30:03 currently that I'm going to be doing. And yes, they reached out so that I can be able to adopt AI into some of the images that I will be creating. And then I've actually seen um people adopt it like uh Slick City Malik. Yeah. He's one of the great guys when it comes to um AI and he he was able to create a campaign for I think Bonvita last year or two years ago using AI. Yeah, I just created the images to a a man and a girl looking happy and all of that and they branded it on their package and all of that which Okay, they used it for their packaging. Yeah, their packaging. Yeah, I don't buy it. Why Why don't you buy it? Um I think there should be a regulation

30:51 to that aspect because it is a commercial job. So, a bit of a human touch should be introduced. You understand? the one I'm talking about that I'm going to be doing recently. I'm still going to be shooting those the subjects, the models and all of that. It's just but that I think that's where the whole thing is going to now because you know when you use um it's one of the internal discussions I'm also having like when you use uh people for your packaging you know packaging is different from campaigns where you do a billboard campaign one year two years and you're done but packaging is sometimes for life and then you have to keep paying whoever is the face of your product for life so now a lot of companies

31:37 are considering just using AI to generate an image because that way they don't have to pay. They're always looking for ways to cut cost. Yeah, I know. So that's that's that's I think that's something that is currently going on um on the ground and I can hear from your voice now that you're totally against that. I know I'm against that. I'm against that because I I I believe that um I don't know if this is the job of Akon that's the regulatory board but I believe Akon should be able to come in and say you know what you do not get to use we still want I mean has a fee for images yes no so it's not restricted restricted but you can pay after paying then you go

32:22 ahead and use it okay so you pay once and then use it on your package for life yes imagine I'm not I don't know for I don't know if it's for live, but I know that for any time you use an AI image, I think there's a fee attached to it. Yes, I saw I saw it recently. I mean, it's really good, but at the same time, I feel like there should be a restriction on that because human touch, let's be able to promote our creative when you Oh, that's that's I think that's a better point. like promote our creative industry and make sure that the creative still gets the models especially still get to make some money because apart from that I think there's still human touch because the AI the images look like humans and they're getting so good now you know before they had the hand issue and all

33:08 that but now it's no longer that it's crazy even the videos man yes even the videos crazy I mean I just believe that there should be a little bit of regulation which they should be they trying to do now which is I think is excellent at the end of the day. All right. Cool. Let's see how it goes. All right. So now I let's talk about we've been talking a lot about your growth and your success and how you have been able to evolve. Uh now let's talk about some of the challenges you might have faced doing all of this. Yes. So can you tell us what challenge you faced as a photographer coming up you know and then working with clients brands and personal clients as well what challenges

33:54 you have to overcome that you know when they say problem no they finish so for every point in your growth or as in my growth as a photographer there has always been challenges right and uh I would say some of the challenges would be in clients actually agreeing to your First of all, I think everybody face this challenge one point or the other. You tell them this is your field it look like. And then I feel like if this I mean I'm so grateful for your platform doing this. If this kind of conversation is ongoing at a very repetitive level where it gets etched into people's subconscious that photography creativity is not something you just brush up as the last touch

34:39 point in whatever it is you're thinking about be it weddings, portraits, commercial and all of that and see it as something really tangible to tell more stories maybe people will appreciate it more. You understand? Um my kind of clients right now are appreciating the kind of work that I do and they are paying for it because they know but there are still a lot of people that don't understand why photography will be this is it not just to press one button. So that's one of the challenges of knowing the worth and understanding that it is actually worth this amount at the end of the day because it brings out whatever story that you're trying to tell at the end of the day. Yeah. So that's one of the challenges. Another challenge is is another challenge rather is location in Lagos. M

35:25 you want to shoot at somewhere you're charging you ridiculous amount for it. You want to uh shoot maybe outdoor all these people are coming to harass you and everything. So it is part of the major challenges and everything. And also another challenge as a structured business is to get talented and that is always a problem right? It's really a problem. I don't even know the root of this problem, but a lot of my photographer or creative colleagues are in this deep thing where they are just looking for um talented hands to support and I mean I'm grateful for my team right now. I have an incredible team. They are very supportive and and all of that, but

36:12 getting more hands on deck to do things and all of that, it is really really challenging. So I feel these are the few ones that I would um I think I can remember right now. Yeah, this last one is really like a pandemic. How do we solve it? I seriously I have no idea cuz like I said I don't know the root cause and when you even hire some people you will figure out they just want to take and just they're not passionate like passionate like you. Yeah. They don't want to pour you pour into them like okay I've gotten what I need. I'm off. You understand? They don't want to stay to put their head down. I don't sincerely I do not know the root cause of this and I really want to understand what exactly is going on. Or maybe it is

36:57 the discovery that you could just enter into skit and make it I think that's where we I think a lot of young people just feel like they don't need to work too hard about and and majority of them are passionate about I'm just talking about my own observation. Yeah. Majority of them are passionate about being on in front of the camera just doing skits or being popular or being celebrity and then they can make money. So working hard behind the scenes is now like um an old school old school thing. It's so old school because they say things like oh we are we are is it work now that they don't want to do what their parents did that their parent did and all of that. Even though it's a very good um evolution when it comes

37:44 it's not so good because most of the time many of them don't have foundation foundation that is it they don't have foundation and they're not prepared for what's coming in in front you get so most of them are not even able to leverage whatever fame they get because they are not solid and that's the problem I like that I wish I observation I wish we could you know let them know but sometimes it's only those that want to hear that you still need to work under somebody, you still need to learn. You still need to be passionate about something. You still need to build character and relationships before you can get to that level of bellis crown or get to that level where you can, you know, make it on your own. Hopefully, the foundation is actually very very important because you interview some people and you hear their story and be

38:30 like, "Excuse me, where are you coming from?" You you assess some people's attitude and you be like, "Did you even go to school? Did you you do team projects in school to understand that team work is important. Very important. They are not deep. They are just right there on the surface. Yeah. So we pray. We pray. We pray because and that's one of the reasons why we're having these kinds of conversations so that people would know you know it's not just it's not just all glitters. I mean I love it when you were talking. That's why I asked you did your education play a role in your business and you said it did and you explained how it helped you. So they so people would know that education is important, building structure is important, you know, learning you have to learn, you have to teach yourself and some of them will be

39:17 like they want to be like you didn't work with anybody now. You just you just let your but before I got here I had to go relax. Yeah. You said so yourself. You had you had mentors, you had spotlight, you had people you call, you know, and and I'm sure some of those people would have asked you, "Oh, do this for me." And you would have done it with your heart. Yes. to be able to get to this level. And so that's that's something I think a lot of people, you know, need to understand. Hopefully, we get there. We keep we thank God. Okay. So, where were we? We were talking about challenges and all that. So, how which do you enjoy more? Working with commercial clients, with brands or working with, you know, celebrities and just, you know, personal people that

40:02 doing their personal portrait? That's a very good question. You know the experiences are very very different. Yes, that's why I'm asking which one you enjoy. Let me see. I actually enjoy working with commercial. So I will put commercial as the first because of the money. Now you're seeing me as a businessman. Yeah. So I enjoy the commercial aspect because the money and also the the joy with they always have a vision and I love to work with people with vision. Okay, even my personal clients now the most of the client that I get now have visions. They just they are not coming in because I just want to take pictures. They have something they want to put. Yes. Even if for a birthday I ask them questions like

40:49 what emotions do you want your pictures to resonate and oh thank you it's my 48. I want it to resonate power. I want it to resonate luxury and okay good. Then we go into that direction of that vision and then bring it to life. So for commercials they always have a vision. Okay, this project is for elevating women this way, that way and all of that. And then me going in the direction of vision just gave me so much fulfillment because I'm working towards a purpose. So when you walk towards a purpose, you feel fulfillment because as it going and it's not about the end product at the end of the day, it's about the journey. So when you're going through with the journey of from ideation to conceptualization to um putting people on a round table to discuss what's next

41:35 and how to achieve it and then all of that and bringing it to life and you're just seeing the final product and be like oo I enjoy this that makes my art really jump. So I enjoy that aspect for commercials. For personal, like I said, a lot of my clients now are coming in with the idea of I want my pictures to resonate this way, that way, and all that. And that is why they even embracing this um AI thing that I do because it just gives them that um opportunity to see their vision come to life like woo this is what I envisioned. I'm happy that it came to life. Which of your jobs are you so are you very very proud of now? like the one that you would say, "Oh, this one is eight." Um, there's a lot. Yes. Yeah, there's a

42:22 there are lots of that. Um, but the one that happened recently was the one I created this year for Mrs. Joyce Aushika. Okay. Yeah. So, she actually flew to Toronto to come and have the shoot with me. Oh, really? Yeah. And then she was like she had the vision of what her year is going to be like her goals and everything and then she saw herself swaring in quantum realm. So yeah that I was able to create that for her and it was really amazing. She loved it so much and yeah that is one that I would say I'm really proud of and why I would say a lot is because when I create I detach. M

43:07 so when I create a piece right now and I love it and go through it um pat myself on the back for a job well done and look at the critical aspect of it to get the constructive way of what I should have done better then I detach from the art so I can be able to create something better. Yeah. So yeah that's why it is a a whole lot which I can't remember because I've Yeah. I've detached right now. But that's one that really stood out to me and that's because she actually came all the way down to Toronto because she needed to achieve that and Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of Toronto, so you shuttle between Lagos and Toronto. How has that impacted your work, your business, and even your work, the work itself? It's really amazing. It's it's risky.

43:54 Yeah, it's amazing. You know, the joy you get from doing something risky. Yeah. So for for that how is it risky because you might lose your clients here. Is that why but I wouldn't know if I did not try. So so I tried that and then it was really amazing because it it helped me to also see that I've been able to create a wonderful structure in my brand. Yeah. Because I did not lose clients. I was still be able I was even celebrities that love to say it is you that I want. they were still able to come shoot with my team in in in Lagos and the images came out great. You understand? And the thing is it made me also see a perspective to okay, I could do this

44:39 better in structure. I could be better in this in structure. This is working so I need to fire on on this or do more of this and all of that. So it's very challenging and it's very fulfilling at the at the end of the day. Lagos for me is vibrant, raw, challenging. you're on your feet 247. But for but when I I was in Toronto, uh it was more like um let me just relax for a bit and see what I can try out, the new text I can try out, the new things I can do. Let me look at my brand from an ego perspective to see what is working and what is not working. Yeah. So that's why I've been able to balance it. I'm trying to also build um a working brand in Toronto. So

45:24 it's still underway at the moment. That's the beauty of creativity. You can move from here to anywhere in the world and still be able to create magic. Yes. But one thing I want I want to touch on is the structure you've been able to create because you know it's not it's not very easy. You said something that even when you're not around your team is able to create you know images that your clients love. Yes. Now that's some for me is something that is very very very important. Right. Because the felis crown effect is you. Yeah. Right. Is your effect. So how were you able to make sure that even when you are not there your team is able to produce the Felix crown effect? That's a good one. So um what I did

46:12 foremost was create structures in terms of um hierarchy system in terms of um my my workers, my staff. You you're doing this, you know what you're doing. You you're doing this, you know what you're doing so as to create. So it's not like um someone wants to shoot now and then is the manager that is carrying camera. No, the manager is different from the photographer. Yeah. The photographer can double as the retoucher or the editor at the same time. The content creator is different also from the manager. The assistant manager is different. All of this, you understand? So for every touch point, there is someone to attend to the client. So it's not a situation where one person is doing everything. That could be a lot. You understand? So while I was in Toronto, clients reach out,

46:57 they talk with the manager, the manager communicate with the rest of the team. This is what we are shooting. Send ideas, dialogue. what is it that we are trying to do and all of that. Then he moves on to the next one where the photographers comes on set and then shoots. Then he moves on to the next phase where the photographer uploads the images, send the link to the manager, the manager sends it to the client. Client makes selection, send it back. You understand this structure and all of that. So it's very very seamless in that way. And this is one thing that I felt like really um worked for me because if it's one person that did everything and one person wakes up and say I'm not doing anymore the opening system crashes. You understand? So I was able to create different touch points in the brand to make sure that okay there's a

47:44 free flow of creativity work and everything and at the end of the day then I access the edits that is done or probably sometimes I work on it as well if there's a lot of work on on um on the decks and then deliver to clients. So we still have that um channel the channel is very smooth and seamless at the end of the day. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a very good one because I know that a lot of creatives struggle with this because it's hard, you know, and if you don't have that structure, you cannot scale. Yeah. You're only thinking about setting up in Toronto now because you know that Lagos can take care of itself. Yeah. So, it's but it's hard for, you know, when when the whole business, the whole idea is just one person, it's hard to download it to to another person to another person and

48:30 say, "Okay, you guys." But that's something you've been able to do and now that you're doing it is showing a lot of creatives out there who might be struggling with scaling that it is very very possible. Yeah. And I think one of the major fears of creative people is that they don't want to let go. So it was they're very passionate about what they do like will somebody else be able to do it the way I do it? Exactly. So it's an art. I call it the art of letting go. I actually had to learn it. It wasn't easy for me. What do you mean I have to teach everything that I know so that someone else can understand it and do it for me? It was very hard. And creatives like it when oh it is only me that is doing this. I don't want you to come learn

49:15 this and then go and learn that. You understand? So I I like I said the art of detachment, the art of um letting go. I had to learn it and be like what I did before traveling was created um a video tutorial of how I do things and then it's on the decks. So any new staff that is coming in is able to watch the tutorial understand how we do things then starts to practice and practice until you get it so that you can also contribute at the end of the day. You understand? So the system is already there. The structure is already there. any new person that is coming knows that you're coming to a particular very solid structure. You understand? So nobody's destructing any system or anything. You can't just come and say this is how I want to be doing things. No, we have a

50:02 culture on how to do things, how to run things and everything. And while I'm here speaking with you, my team is currently shooting right now. Yeah. You understand? And this is one thing that I really do because it's really scaled for the first few times as a creative that you would do it. you feel like you are doing this um and you're losing but over time when it picks up you will be so happy that you're doing it because as a CEO or as a founder you have to like remove yourself from the daily operations of things so as to see things from a grand scale of and to be able to also be strategic with where you're going with the brand because if you are into the daytoday running of every single thing you will

50:47 be so tired and you'll be so focused on that you will not see the big picture you won't even when you are going extinct. Yeah. Yeah. That is it. And I mean yesterday I I announced that I I'll be launching um a course on how to integrate AI in in photography. I could be I I was able to only do that because I've created a structure. If I was in the daily operation of things, I would not even I mean I get home late, I sleep, wake up studio. You understand? So this has been able to give me the chance to also think and be like okay let me add one or two things with my photography the education the mentorship and all of that. Yeah good. So we're going to talk about the mentorship in a bit but before we do that I don't know if you guys have any questions. Any questions?

51:33 Oh yeah sure. Oh great. I mean um great work brother. Yes. Um I just wanted to know um if you find photography as something that is um that is supposed to be like just an art form alone you know because some people actually I think there are various ways I mean photographers let me just put it that way you know I think there are various photographers you you let us know now that you are the business photographer but you know I see a lot of people had so much um passion or attachment to just being an artist like you know I don't know maybe it's an art form only you know or maybe they're extremist if there's a word for it that way you know

52:20 what's the what's the difference what's the difference are they from what you are doing you know some people just want to take photograph you know even their style of photography is kind of um on the how would I put yeah you know you know is there a market for that as well or and also what's the with what you what you're doing. Okay. So, yes, there's definitely a market for that as well. You can be a solo photographer and go into the edgy or the u um exhibition kind of art form or whatn not and still be able to really do well. You understand? And it is also important that while you're thinking of going solo, you're thinking of your retirement plan as well. Do you want to go solo? And then when you're not able to shoot, what's next? You understand?

53:05 I'm able to fall back to education, mentorship and all that. When I stop carrying the camera, I'm able to fall back into still being able to hold the studio down and all of that. So, for me, uh, photography is yes, started as an art form and evolved into a business, but I did not lose the art side of it while entering cuz that's one of the major dilemma when it comes to photographers. they start as an art form very passionate about it and all of that and they see that it's not sustainable as just art let me go into the photography and into the business aspect of it and they lose their art touch of it as well but I have been able to balance in such a way that I'm evolving as an artist and also as a business person so it is important to be able to

53:52 understand this balance and learn it and one of the major ways that I've been able to learn is by learning um two things at a I understand the art of focus but these two things are not mutually um exclusive because when you're learning arts and business is different ball game you understand so you can't learn two forms of art at the same time you will lose one but if you're learning arts and business you can juggle both at the same time ascribe a particular time for art ascribe a particular time for business and learn it uh both times you understand and I feel like it is important even if you're practicing the edgif kind photography, you still need to create a structure. I'm not into that fully, but I believe

54:37 there would be a structure form of it as well that you can delve into and know that okay, at the end of the day, even if I'm not actively in this, my work is still selling itself. M um and also to add to that there are also some people who just um focus on the artistry too. I mean part of the edgy part of it and then not um get into the business and then they they they get um tired of it and then it's it's very draining. It's draining when you focus too much on passion. Passion is just something that burns vof and then goes fle goes fickle. You understand? You still need to find a balance in in a way where you're earning something that is making you happy at the end of the day and then you're still

55:23 channeling that energy into into art and passion. You understand? So I I feel like it is important to learn the balance of this. I mean I wouldn't use the word balance because I feel like there's nothing like balance at the end of the day. I would use something like harmony. harmony because if you look at an orchestra at some point the trumpet will be higher and then the violin will be lower and then it goes up and all of that. It's not balance it's harmony and that is why it's able to create a wonderful piece of music at the end of the day. So find harmony in what you're doing. You can't just say it is passion all through every year and that is no it's not possible. You have to find a balance. Even if it is nature, going out in nature just so you can distress yourself at the end of the day. Learn a

56:10 bit of courses on business and all of that. Yeah. Yeah. To speak like um the edgy people would speak, they will say someone like you are not the real photographer. I'm just saying I understand. I totally understand you. You understand? And that is because over time they've seen that people that delve into business lose the art touch. But I have not you understand and she mentioned something about the evolution of how I'm adopting AI into it. That is the art form that is pushing me. Not actually the business. It was after I released this form of art to a lot of my clients that I felt like I can make more money from this. You understand? So it didn't start up as I know how to do this now. Start giving me money. No, I have to perfect the art.

56:55 I have to understand how it works. I have to be able to push it and make it interpret what they trying to um resonate with or what not. And then at the end of the day, they start charging for it. So must commend you cuz the likes of you u amazing cle you know you you you've made like a you starting to make like a blueprint for a lot of people to see that you know um what we used to call photo back then is actually you know um you know it's a career it's a business um back then you you only have just one person that everyone go to but respect to kichi ami you know But you don't have

57:42 an industry structure in terms of um can we call it an industry? Do you guys um have a structure association? No, we we do not actually. That's a very very good question. We do not actually. And um it's amazing because I think um I would say this photographer that you're calling right now just it's just um it's just an hunch of waking up and be like you know what it doesn't have to be like this and that is how innovation start as well. It doesn't have to be like this. There should be another way this can happen. You understand? I was speaking with a photographer the other day and then I actually did not see the fact that I left the country for 4 months as

58:27 a very big deal until I started speaking with my colleagues and they were like how did you do it because you leave the country just forget it you pack up and someone leaving 4 months was like what and then you're still getting jobs and all of that cuz I was the kind of client I was still the kind of client I was still shooting it was still my top-notch client that were still returning knowing fully whether I wasn't in the country and they trusted you understand so I've sold something more than pictures if I was only selling pictures I don't think they will come back so I've sold I believe I created something more than that and that is why they're coming back yeah customer relationship is very very important yes how you treat your client is also very very important and to add to something that um you said um those

59:15 other edgy creatives right um they still need to have structure like he said. Yeah. Even if the whole thing has to depend on you, there has to also be a team that helps you. And then there are also different kinds of creatives. They're the types that are like him that want to make sure that okay, I reach almost everybody. It's not not everybody because I know your money too determines the kind of clients you get. It's not everybody, but I reach a large number of people and then I make X amount out of out of it. Now, an edgy creative can be like, "Okay, I just want one client because I'm selling myself. I'm not selling just my art. You want me." So, instead of paying um let me say the amount of money that

1:00:03 maybe a 100 people would pay for you. They just pay once for just pay once for that person. I agree. Yeah. So, there are different kinds of creative and different kinds of audiences. That one might be like, I want to just do one job and go and sleep. Yeah. Yeah. I'm done. I'm not coming back. But it is hard to see that kind of structure in Niger. In Nigeria and that's where we are going hopefully. Hopefully. I was going through Instagram one day and I saw a guy that makes bags but he doesn't make the normal bags. He makes he can see a a castle and make it into a bag. Okay. And when I saw the amount this guy was charging $50,000 for one bag and he said he's limited to just two. You see? And this is this is not a Nigerian artist. and people were actually buying it.

1:00:49 I saw that as this is amazing. But for you to even get to that stage in this our Nigerian so that's the thing the the the market you're in determines what you want to do at the end of the day. Yeah. For you to be able to do that sort of thing you have to be sure that you can get the clientele. Yes. But what does it mean when we say you know this kind of thing does not happen in Nigeria? What does that mean in terms of you know um are people not um do we not like art? Do we not understand you know art in general? Do you understand what I'm saying? And if not, how do we get our people interested in, you know, in those type of things? Because what you said is, you know, there you actually had to, you know,

1:01:34 figure out how you go about your business and how to get people interested, you know, but the edgy people now, the artistic people and everything, maybe they could be finding hard to do those sort of things, you know, how what kind of like advice would you give to them? And generally is Nigerians just like um not an artistic people or they will not um invest in sort of like those things. Okay. So I will give you an example of one um um aspect of the creative industry that has really blown up right now. 5 years let let me say 10 years ago there wasn't anything like bridal stylist. Nothing like bridal stylist. you want to get married, you sort for your outfits, your your shoes, your bags and

1:02:21 everything by yourself. And but bridal stylist came to be and then before you know it, people are paying millions of naira for bridal styling, right? What I think they did, right, was be able to tell their story. So you see stylist content creators and videographer and photographers alongside so they can show the work that is different from what the clients or the couples are getting. So the and that is one thing that I really love about life with Linda or this creativity is the storytelling aspect of let us talk about this creativity or let us talk about it. You understand? I would love to say this to um fellow photographers and

1:03:06 videographers as well. We need to actually come out and be telling our own story. Let people see what goes on. Since I've been putting out how I um use AI and integrate AI, my perception in in the in the industry or within people has increased. Like it has increased so much that I feel like why have I not been doing this all day? If you hide your creative process, people see what you're doing as it is easy. If you show them your creative process, people see the indepth be like some people they create. Yeah. And that's what I love about Vicky James. Vicky James puts a creative process. You see, it is important to talk about what

1:03:53 goes on with how you think, how you create, what the process is like and everything. There are two um two of these examples that I just gave. I gave the brider stylist and then the another one is the content creators. Um this is because content creators are even showing more of the work and the process that goes on and people have been like okay I love this style of creativity or what you're creating and all of that. I'm going to book it. It is really booming and wedding photographers and wedding photographers are on the on the sideline because they are not showing. So you hire a wedding photographers and what you post only would be the result of you hire a wedding photographer what you post only is just the result.

1:04:39 You understand? And people see it like oh this is nice and then they want to hire you. I'm charging this amount. If you're not popular and um you be like please I would rather go with this person than to hire this person. You understand? So it is important to tell your story. Tell them what the thought process. Most of us try not to do that because we are scared another photographer will now know how I do things and then steal the way I do things and before you know it people will not be booking me again. That is the fear that we have as creative people. So it is important to learn the art of detach actually detach from your craft. Detach from that art see it as another entity on its own that stands apart from you and then you'll be able to scale. M I I did not believe this was going to

1:05:25 work before I started or when I was learning this cuz I have a lot of mentors that I watch that YouTube and all of that but since I started doing it I'm like wow this is actually interesting you understand so yeah so for the edif creative stand in front of the camera let us see that part of you that you said that you're imputing in that work let us see it so that someone can resonate with it and be like oo this is amazing I want this and then they hear the

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