이동진이 걸어온 일의 여정... 일이 고통스러움에도 불구하고 OOO을 찾아야 하는 이유

0:00 I don't think it'll work out anyway . Labor was originally a punishment. I think I'd do it if you gave me 20 million won . I think I will. I think I'll do it too. For me, it's best to do what you love well. [Music] Hello, Pyeongwon. hello. Today, I sat down a little differently because I wanted to have a serious talk about my attitude toward work . How is it? Yes. Actually, we've been broadcasting for about 6 years now, but I don't think we've ever done something like this, facing each other in this format . I don't think there's ever been a case where we looked at each other directly like this . yes. In fact, we've talked about your tastes and perspectives on various topics, but we've never talked about your attitude toward work. yes. Was that so? yes. I felt

0:45 like we covered a lot of topics, so I just talked about it briefly and moved on, but I've never really talked about my attitude toward work like this before. In fact, as a junior in life and as a partner who works with you, I've always been curious about what kind of attitude you have toward work, what kind of stance you take when you work. I would like to ask you about the attitude and principles behind the numerous writings and words of the judge. Actually, I'm a little nervous. Because I've been a bit of a fraud in other places and I've been packaging myself, but I know too much. Manager Hyunhojun is the person who has the most experience with me, especially when it comes to work, and he knows everything about me, so I can't lie . I'm shaking right now. Actually, I

1:30 knew too much, so I was worried. That's because I think it would be difficult to ask questions based on things I already know about the critic from the beginning, so today's questions will be somewhat general and light-hearted in the beginning, and then I will ask questions based on things I've felt while observing the critic for a long time . Please take care of yourself. yes. First of all, how is your work these days, Mr. Evaluator? Well, what should I say about this year in my life? So, in fact, everything I do is visible on the outside. Because I've been working mostly for the general public, whether it's through broadcasts or writing, I've been working in a way that people who are interested in what I'm doing can see it. Over the past 10 years.

2:17 But if you look at it from that perspective, it might seem like there's less work these days. Actually, I'm trying to work a little bit less. The reason is that I haven't been feeling well for the past year or two, especially recently, and I need to get some treatment, and then I'm also physically focusing on something that isn't visible . Because of these things, I'm actually quite busy. Well, but speaking of the most recent ones, we're really focusing on just two things. One is obviously Paiakea, and the other is now called Raffle Weekly, and there's also Orbit, and then there's the program I'm currently working on with Anmo. I'm focusing on these two. Oh, I feel a bit sorry for not being able to do well in the film, but one of the things I have to do now is directing. In fact,

3:05 through my position, I have done quite a lot of work such as meeting the audience directly and explaining or mediating the film . But due to various issues with my commission, I can't do much of Oldro . Many people know about your freelance work, but I think there are some people who don't know about your previous jobs. yes. Since today's topic is the same, I thought about it too. Well, you might think, "What kind of work would a college student do anyway?" but I did an excessive amount of part-time jobs. hmm. hmm. Oh, the thing I've done the most is, of course, tutoring a lot. Oh, I did a lot of tutoring, to the point of being excessive . I don't know about the feeling of a first-time instructor, but I'm now more into quantity than quality . I taught you a lot. Oh,

3:51 so in a way, I did a lot of teaching in college. Then, in college, in addition to that, for example, I also had a house blown away at a construction site . I've even had something like a black needle . For a few days. After that, I did a lot of business. I wonder why you did so well in business. yes. I left a lot behind. With that, I earned my registration and started selling chapssal (spicy rice cakes) and then I worked as a DJ at a local music cafe. In this way, I earned a lot of money and worked a lot while attending university . There was that one time. After that, I started working in my fourth year of high school and worked at a newspaper company for about 13 years . So, that would be the 13 years I've been working as a journalist. Since I mainly covered films back then and now, there

4:36 may not be much difference between what I do now and what I write in reviews, but my basic identity was to report as a reporter. hmm. Looking back now, it's already been 20 years since I quit my job and started working as a freelancer for 19 years, and I'm currently living as a film critic. Actually, you do some commentary now, and you used to be a reporter, but I think you must have met a lot of different people in your career . But usually, when we talk about work, one of the first things that comes to mind is what kind of person Ilja is. After meeting all these different people, what do you think people called Ilja have in common? I think people who are good at their jobs have a sense of humor that says, "It's a job well done." I thought about what a sense of work is, and I think I know the context.

5:23 Could it be that the context is the context of work? So, the worse a person is at a job, the more they want to do it well and work hard, but their vision is very narrow. Actually, what I'm doing isn't just me sharpening bats all by myself . So, modern society is extremely highly fragmented, and even within the workplace, work is divided, and because it is structured like this, where everyone is interlocked with each other, you have to think not only about your own cog, but also about other people's cogs and the structural environment of the entire machine and factory . From that perspective, it seems like people who know the context of the work have a job to do. And it seems like he's really good at getting things done . That's what came to mind when you said context . So, in a way, the context of work is about looking at something from a big picture perspective . But did you just comment on something? no. Yes, it's a big picture that came out naturally.

6:10 Of course, the Big Picture Institute is doing a good job of this too. yes. But now I sometimes have that thought . So, we also hear that people who are good at seeing details are good at their jobs. If that's the case, and if we continue what the critic said, can we say that people who see the context well, but also occasionally go further and look at the context again, and are good at going back and forth like this, are good at their jobs ? So, now, when it comes to expressing opinions on something, I have no choice but to emphasize certain aspects with a bit of exaggeration. Of course, in this world, there is no such thing as one side being 100% right or 0% wrong. In that respect, details are needed, but a grand perspective that sees the overall context is also needed. If I were to say which of the two would be more centered, I would say it's context-oriented, and of course, details are important too.

6:56 Another thing to think about is that work is actually hard work. It's very difficult, but I think people who are good at their jobs try to take control of their own circumstances and actually observe it. hmm. One of the reasons why work feels so tiring, difficult, painful, boring, and meaningless is because we lose control. In other words, we don't want to work, but we have to do it because we're paid by our superiors. In other words, the reason we like leisure time or time after work is because we can use that time however we want. But when I'm in a work environment, I ca n't do what I want. It's already decided. Lunch time is from 12 to 1, right? But even within that, people who do a good job seem to have self-control. Whatever it is, does it give itself

7:43 some kind of authority within itself ? Doesn't working this way now provide some kind of motivation to do well in some aspect, whether it's a sense of accomplishment or efficiency ? Well, you talked about control, and you talked about observation based on control, and you talked about context, but people called Ilja don't actually have all the elements. The thing about the world is that if you're good at something, there's also a downside, and so there are a lot of these balanced games that are always coming out on the internet. Let me tell you a few examples. For example, someone might have a really good personality, but their work skills might be a little lacking. Or, on the other hand, someone might be good at work, but their personality might be a little bit off.

8:28 In a case like this, you have to choose one of the two . Of course, I would like to work with someone like Ho-jung, who is good at his job and has a good personality. of course. yes. I am also living a social life now . Because I have work to do. yes. But anyway, since you have to choose one of the two, the key to the balance game is that if I were you, I would choose someone who is good at their job, even if their personality is a bit odd. yes. If that were my job, my friends and family would be against it. hmm. If it's not that, but honestly, if you work and become too close with your colleagues, you end up being like older brothers. But I think I don't have any older siblings . In that respect. I think it's more like thinking of others. Even if you have a friendship and you respect and admire that person and love them dearly, you still

9:14 think of them as strangers. In that sense, in this world of work, where work is a constant, doing a good job takes priority. Of course, it depends on the degree. But if you say that someone is good at their job but is human trash, that's not good, but if you really want to compare, then you're even worse at their job but they're a good person. I'm getting angrier. Because when I get angry, it makes me look like a bad person . That person is kind. Right? In that respect, if you have bad character, you should at least curse at them. In this respect, I think it's important to do better at what we do. At least you gave me so much insight into the light-hearted balance game I gave you at work, so I'd like to do one more, just one more balance game. There are many. So, for

10:00 example, someone who has less preparation in advance, but is able to improvise and deal with situations well when something happens . Well, if there are two people who are very thorough in their preparations and try to make sure there are no errors, it is the latter. It seems similar to the one before . So, most of what we do at work is n't huge work. Well, in a way, because it deals with the basic tasks that I mentioned earlier, what 's important is not the ability to improvise in a crisis situation or something like that, but rather, it's important to repeatedly perform the tasks well in an environment that we are expected to do. In that respect, it is like that. Well,

10:46 if there is a crisis, it could happen very frequently . So, in that case, if a crisis occurs, the crisis in that work is not a crisis, but it is a daily routine and an environment. That means the work environment is good . Then what's important then is n't the improvisation. From this perspective, there are actually fewer situations at work that require improvisation, spontaneity, and quick thinking than you might think. Well, that's how it feels. Ah, so far we've been talking about doing a good job, but I think the keyword that always accompanies doing a good job is doing something you like. It's a simple question: do you prioritize what you like or what you're good at? But when choosing between them, yes, this is truly a dilemma . People start fighting with each other while doing things like, "What's the big deal?" or "What's the big deal?" yes. But

11:33 this is also an obvious thing, but it's best to do well at something you like. But such people are rare. So, if I have to split it up and talk about it again, I think I am good at the former . hmm. I think that choosing something you're good at increases your chances of being a little happier . Because human desires change, and this is the biggest reason. I can't be sure that I'll still like what I like now in 10 years . Think about this person for a moment. I think I would die for this person. Even people who love each other so passionately that they think they could die for each other sometimes break up or meet someone else. What's more, when it comes to work, I find some work fun. You may think that something is your calling, but after a year, it

12:19 may fade away. In 10 years, something else might be more fun. hmm . In that respect, what can humans say about their endless desires? Such a frivolous being. It keeps changing like this . And I don't think I even know what I like. Do you know exactly what you like to do ? I don't know exactly either. I don't think you know. I only know a few of them. From that perspective, it is also difficult to understand one's own desires. In the sense that desires change, such a changeable and variable factor cannot be the most important criterion for making choices in life . I think so. Sir, have you ever had a change of heart because something you liked became boring ? As a professional, I now have many shortcomings and a few strengths.

13:05 One of the few advantages is that professionally, I tend to feel less bored. hmm. I feel it very little . So, what I did yesterday, I do today, and what I did today, I do tomorrow. Usually, I feel a little tired. And it's a little boring. I have that a lot less than other people. So, I don't think there has ever been a critical problem in that regard while working. Ah, I've never had such big fluctuations in my feelings or anything like that, and I've been in despair about the work environment rather than the content of the work. I think that's a bit of a different story. And there's another thing you could say like that . Now, when I separate what I like from what I'm good at, I usually end up liking what I'm good at . It will all gradually converge . If you like it, you will do it well, and if you do it well, you will like it. Right? But I think it's a little different. Even if you like something,

13:51 there are limits to what you can do well. Because I have talent. For example, if I say I like singing, does that mean I'm suddenly not a singer? I'm now somewhat familiar with Kim Na-bak and things like that . It can't be that bad . In that situation, just because you like something does n't necessarily mean you're good at it. But if you do it well, most people will like it . That thing. Because if you think about it, the reason we like our work now is because when we are doing it, we are so happy at the moment, but when we see the results after we have finished the work, we feel satisfied with ourselves, and when others see and praise us, we feel really good. These are all the reasons why we like our work . If you think about it this way, since there is a very high probability that something you are good at will be something you like,

14:44 I think that choosing something you are good at actually increases the probability that you will also get something you like as a side effect. You already answered that part, but you said that feelings of liking can change a lot. But I think that feeling will last a little longer . Or maybe this is just me being curious and it will go away soon . Isn't there a cooler that can detect this in advance ? I don't think you know. I think about this a lot. I sometimes wonder if I was me 10 years ago, 20 years ago, but of course, now identity is something that I have to take responsibility for in the things I have done, or achieve, or things like that, and I have a certain perspective on that and my own judgment about it, and then I have memories of myself. These things come together to create identity, and if you understand them sequentially, for example, if you

15:31 think about me in my 20s or early 30s, I feel like I'm very different from myself now. Yes, with different values. I think there are a lot of differences. In that sense, wouldn't investing in things that change less and choosing things that change less be a slightly better choice that will allow us to fall into less of a pit or be less unhappy while living in a society that is relatively constantly changing ? I think so. Now, I want to focus again on doing well, on doing things well. I mean, a lot of people have the desire to do well . Ah, I want to do a good job. But there are many people who want to do a good job, but the gap between what they want and what they want is too big, and they suffer greatly because of that gap . But I

16:20 can't really imagine the critic being in pain because he wants to do well at work, but it's because he couldn't do it in his early years . I wonder if you had any such concerns in your early years, and I'm curious about how you managed those desires in a healthy way . yes. Now, I could give an answer that would sound really beautiful to everyone, but honestly, if I were to talk about myself now, I don't think it would work out anyway . hmm. hmm. Whenever I finish work, I don't think about how I'll achieve great things, how I'll do something, how I'll get a million views, or anything like that . Oh, I don't think things will go well if I do it. It may seem a bit strange, but I think I instinctively had a slightly pessimistic and cynical side to things from the beginning. By genes. I wonder why I have such a relatively pessimistic view,

17:05 but on the other hand, I think there are many positives as well. It may be a desperate measure, but if you think, "Oh, there's no way it'll work out," in most cases, 80 to 90% of the time, it works out better than that. Because most people are satisfied. I really want to get over 40 points, but there 's a high chance that I'll get over 40 points. If you get 45 points, that's 5 points more, right? Most people think they need to get 90 points, but if they get 45 points, they'll want to die. In that respect, because I initially set my expectations low, it became a habit, so if I think about it the other way around, I don't want to disappoint myself, so I may have structured myself that way as a self-defense measure. I guess you're being a bit defensive. Yes, that's right. That could be the case . Because I can't stand it anymore . But I don't know if it's because of that or not, but

17:51 I basically have a pessimistic attitude, so if it comes out to a certain level, it's okay. I'm not dead yet. This is what I think. But you usually end up doing well if you have the motivation to do well . But I don't have expectations, so how can I not do well? Just because I don't have expectations doesn't mean I'm not trying . Of course, I put in the effort. Because I'm not a very talented person, so what would I do if I didn't put in the effort ? Well, I do n't have any special talents, I'm not born with any talents, I do n't have any background, and my family isn't particularly wealthy. In this situation, the most important thing for me to get here was luck. If we exclude luck, there is nothing but effort. In that respect, I'm trying to do my best in my own way .

18:36 However, it means that the results are actually being underestimated. yes. In some ways, optimists are naturally happier than pessimists, but in some cases, pessimists have an advantage in life. A pessimist won't be disappointed. yes. Since I am a person who lowers the threshold for feeling happiness in the first place, I think I am happy even if I am just a little happy. Because life can't be happy. Hmm, I've heard this saying many times: "There's a chance this will work out." actually. Right? It's really annoying when you're next to me. But on the other hand, it also makes me feel at ease. why? Since you didn't expect anything, you wo n't be disappointed, right? no. That's my standard and it's not high for others . It's high for me. This is all I can do. Think like this. yes. That's what I am.

19:21 Of course, I should be generous to myself and strict to others . yes. All right. yes. I will keep that in mind. But that interesting thing is that, in a way, the fact that it can't be done is one of the principles of a critic's work. When I think of the critic and the word work, the first and most important keyword that comes to mind is principle. But why principles? The reason is that the judge sets good principles and works hard to stick to them. I don't know if these are actual principles, but he never gives false evaluations, or he always evaluates truthfully, or when considering whether to cover a movie or not, he always watches the movie before reviewing it. For example, he could say that a child's movie is different without even watching the movie. Due to various circumstances.

20:13 Should I also call it the principle of the lower limit that was mentioned earlier? I think there's something like that too, so I'm curious about how these principles were created . If I were to look like that, I would think about what it would be like, but first of all, I think it's only natural that I would evaluate this movie based on what I saw . I'm not a particularly ethical person. Well, this is obvious, but I'm not a noble person, but I'm that kind of person, so is n't showing myself to the world my job? hmm. And the way I learn about the world is through work . From that perspective, I think that work is no longer just a means in itself in life, but is very, very important . I think that professional ethics are

20:59 really important when working in such situations. I can't even maintain the highest level of professional ethics . Because I am a very vulgar person. But I want to keep the lower limit . So, I set a lower limit on my professional ethics, and if I fall below that limit, I feel like an animal in my profession . But I want to stop it just as desperately . So I think we need to keep at least some basic principles, and those basic principles are what you just mentioned . For example, I enjoyed watching a movie called A, but the atmosphere is such that these days, with the Korea- Japan relationship, gender issues, class issues, and the upcoming political elections, I feel like if I say that the movie is good, I'll get criticized like this . So, if I were to say it differently, I think it would be like falling below Hanso . That's something I'm desperately trying to protect. So, when I

21:45 review a movie, I often think, "Oh, if I upload a pie this week with a star rating or a one-liner, I'm going to get a ton of hate speech again ." hmm. hmm . But I think I have to do it. Because I chose that profession . I think that's the job rate . So, this is an obvious thing, but when I say a movie is good or bad, it's not because I've considered something. I say it's good because I actually like the movie. I'm saying it's not good because it's actually not good. In other words, if I say that I like a movie that everyone else says is bad, it's not because I've violated my conscience, but because I choose movies based on those people's standards . That could be the case. I may not be good at watching movies. It's possible that your ability is lacking and you have less time to watch movies . But at least in my opinion, I don't think I'm saying that good things are bad or bad things are good

22:31 . That's the rule . An example of not betraying professional ethics. That's what I think is the ethics of direct inspection. As a film critic, another thing I mentioned earlier is that I'm now in a situation where things have gone very well for me compared to my abilities . If you look at it this way, there are a lot of restrictions. So, in cases like these days, we ca n't even do 5% of the restricted work . I mean, 95% of them are rejected. So now, I'm so grateful and sorry, but when you refuse or give evidence, you have to know that in order to refuse . Especially now, if the offer is for a movie, in other words, what kind of movie would you like to direct? I wonder if you would be willing to participate in an event like this for a certain movie . When you receive suggestions like this, you can get a general idea of the movie before watching it. If a film deals with this kind of content from this kind of person by this kind of director, it will

23:17 probably not be very good. Then I'm not watching. You can reject it without looking . But I don't think that should be done that way. I think you have to see it to reject it . In that respect, I have a principle of always looking at it, whether I accept or reject it, and then I reject it. Of course, there are exceptions. For example, I refuse to watch political films . Well, for example, there are documentaries and such that aim to show a specific political belief, whether it's the ruling or opposition party. The purpose itself is yes. That's not the purpose of the movie, and in fact, if you look at it, both are propaganda movies, one way or another . It's a movie that has value beyond the movie itself, but that's not for me to judge. That's something I have to decide as a citizen, and in that sense, with a few exceptions, I basically watch any movie and then reject it. Or you can see everything and

24:03 give your consent. So, from my perspective, I can't really imagine making a decision without seeing it. In that respect, I try to keep at least some of those minimum principles. But that was n't a given. So, sometimes when a request comes in, it's more common to make a request as if it's natural to make a decision without looking at it. So I thought the reviews were great. This may seem obvious, but in reality it may not be obvious. Other people may have their own ethical principles. hmm. They must have some part in their day. Well, that's me. In fact, you can see that the principle is that the critic's current position is different from the position the critic was in when he started . But, keeping to this principle may seem difficult now, but it may be considered relatively easier than in the past.

24:49 So, I'm also curious about how you kept to that principle in the past when it was difficult to keep to that principle, and whether you had any difficulties . To put it simply, that's why I quit my job. Oh, yes. So, there must have been principles that I had to follow at work. So, as an employee of Company A, there may be a certain way I should behave. But I am also an employee of that company, and I have my own professional ethics that I have to uphold while doing that job. There are constant clashes between the two. hmm. But if that's above the lower limit, I'll compromise. But if it falls below the lower limit, it would be too much trouble. The moment something like that happened, I quit my job. hmm. Oh, I see.

25:35 This is actually something I praise when I go out as a critic. When I meet people, I'm like, " Oh, what is it?" He said this in front of me . One of them is that whenever I meet people, I always praise them, saying that they try very hard to stick to their principles and that they are very clear about their principles . But when I do that, the fans often say that they are very closed-minded. That's why I don't know. yes. If I were to tell you what I felt, I would say that I felt like I was a more flexible person than anyone else because I had principles . Because in a situation where there are clear pillars that must be followed and those that must not be followed, everything else is possible, that's what I thought . Yes. hmm. I'm just saying it's embarrassing, but to be honest, it's the lower limit. That's the Sahan Line now, and even if I

26:21 had a knife to my throat in the Joseon Dynasty, there could be people like this regardless of what the king said . For that person, the standard is now 90 points. Now I'm trying to keep my score at least 40 points because I was n't born with a great personality, so it's hard for me to keep my score at 40 points . Well, in that sense, I think that if you fail at it, you actually shouldn't have that job and it's a social annoyance. hmm. You can think of it this way . I think I mentioned this somewhere else at Pi School before, but there's a passage from Mencius that I really like. What Mencius said was, let's think about it: there are people who make armor and there are people who make arrows. In that case, how could a person who makes arrows be less wicked than a person who makes armor? Nevertheless, the arrow maker works while

27:09 worrying that the arrows he makes will not harm people, and the armor maker works while worrying that the armor he makes will harm people . That's something I think about a lot while working. So, at any given moment, a specific job may be like that . There are bad jobs out there. For example, being a criminal is a bad job. If we talk about that kind of thing, in any job, the things I have to do at any given moment could be making armor or making arrows . My point is that being critical in evaluating a film doesn't necessarily mean you're going to get shot down . Of course, critics should criticize what needs to be criticized. That's not what I mean, but I'm talking about the importance of certain principles or certain things in the context of the whole. Speaking of location, from that perspective, is what

27:55 I'm doing now making armor ? I think about that a lot, like creating a volcano . You keep figuring out McDonald's. Yes, that's right. In that case, it has a bit to do with professional ethics . I am of the opinion that the dark side should make armor. [Music] [Applause] Setbox finally opens its eyes. Open your eyes to a new life with realistic gaming and video calls with your world-class pets. AI vision. This time, it's a bit of a light question, but I feel like my feelings will come out in the answer. I've

28:40 talked very lightly so far, but I think I've talked too much about the heavy principles of Soshi, so let's go a little more to that lighter topic. Work-life balance and the keyword work-life balance are heavy, but the word work-life balance itself is actually being consumed a lot, but recently, a celebrity, Chef Ahn Sung-jae, made a comment about work-life balance, and so there's been talk again about how we should do something about work-life balance . But, among the people I know, it seems like it's publicly known that work-life balance is something that's not really there. Since you're always working, how do you maintain a work-life balance ? yes. Personally, I do n't see much of a separation as you just said . Moreover, I have been living as a freelancer for the past 19 years, so why do we joke that freelancers can be freelancers but

29:27 not lancers ? But for example, I don't really distinguish between weekends and weekdays . Well, it's always the same. In that situation, when I was working, I would do afternoon work around 4 PM on Sundays. Because, starting tomorrow, I have to go back to that hellish workplace. But one of the best things about being a freelancer is that you can use your time however you want, so that's gone. As a result, there is no distinction between day and night, and the distinction between rest and work is very small. Or maybe I'm just a serious workaholic . I have workaholism, so I started working seriously in 1993, so it 's been over 30 years. In that 30-plus year period, including vacations and holidays,

30:18 I don't think there were even 5 days where I woke up in the morning and thought, "What should I do today?" Well, there was always something to do . Even during vacation , I've always worked like that, sometimes chasing it, sometimes addicted to it, so I can't really tell the difference between the two. Speaking on a general level, I think the term work-life balance is a bit odd . But I need to be careful about what I say because there might be some misunderstandings. Basically, what I want to say is that work is bound to be difficult . hmm. Oh, I wish work would set us free, but that's only possible in an ideal world, and in reality, it's the sense of accomplishment and fun that matters. It's so important and, uh, it's so important to do it there, but in reality, there are many more things to do in a much more difficult environment, such as making a living or

31:04 doing other things that are difficult . If work is so idealistic and fun, why would anyone want to do it and get paid for it? Wouldn't that be so? Actually, I said that work is a bit of a light word, but now I'm talking about it in a heavy way. The etymology of this is that the Latin word for work is the same as the Latin word for film, LAOR. If we break it down into English, the Latin word LAOR means to walk unsteadily while carrying a heavy load, which is the original meaning of eternity. So what about labor? It's hard. The same goes for ancient Christ. When I was talking about drugs before, I mentioned filler phones . Philopon is Philopon Plus Phone, and the phone means labor. That's what makes you love work. Yes, that's right. But that no phone is originally a phone, and the meaning of phone is that it can

31:49 mean labor, but it can also mean sadness . That's why people in the old days looked at labor with sadness. Because it's hard and painful and I wish I hadn't done it. So, basically, it's difficult. Labor. This um. The reason I brought this up is because I want to talk about work-life balance. Work-life balance means striking a balance between work and life . The fact is that people's thoughts about it are completely reflected in what they say . Finding a balance between work and life means that work is not life. hmm. hmm . Because if you consider it a part of your working life, you wouldn't call it work-life balance . So, the very concept of excluding work from life implies that labor is something you really, really hate, is too painful, and is just a means of making a living

32:35 . This is how I feel about balance. First of all, there is no distinction between work and life. First of all, not only me, but people in the world may think that they just worked too hard until 6 o'clock, and then from that point on, it's 4 hours and they can enjoy some leisure time, but the word leisure is the same. You're writing about a woman who has free time . So, leisure means time left over from not working. What is the default? It's work. Day. So, in all of this, the truth is, even if we assume that we leave work at 6 o'clock, leaving work at 6 o'clock doesn't mean that we suddenly begin a completely detached life from work . For example, imagine you just got yelled at by your manager today . So, if I go after 6 o'clock and have a drink with a friend, will I be able to drink comfortably? What I'm saying is that

33:22 any sense of accomplishment or frustration you've felt since then has been extended . There is a fundamental premise that there is no distinction between the two, and more importantly, work is actually what we spend the most time on and do most repeatedly in our lives . If you think about it, even if you work 8 hours ideally, even if you work 7 or 8 hours, you only work for about 2 minutes during your waking hours, including commuting time and so on . If we pour two minutes of our lives into something and think of it only as a tool, a means, and that it is only time to make money and time to endure, and that the remaining one minute is our real life, can that person be happy? Because it means that you're throwing away 1 of your life, filling that moment, making money, and finding happiness and such only in the remaining 1

34:10 . So, this might sound like a lot of nonsense to some people . Because any job is difficult, and I also have a hard time with the parts that I can't control . The truth is that everything is hard, and if you don't find joy or fulfillment in those hard working hours, it's difficult for you to be happy . No matter how hard it is, there are times when you can smile. On the other hand, no matter how happy you are, there are sad moments . In that sense, at least if there is something that takes up the most portion of our lives, something that we spend more than 88 hours a day on, then we should actively be happy at that moment . Even though it's difficult, work-life balance is important in that respect, but it's important to elevate myself when I do something

34:56 . My condition. With the words work and life, I don't differentiate between them, but this time I'll twist it a little. When I say work here, I mean the time you devote to work, and when I say critiques or things like that, I think there's clearly another time when you do n't devote yourself to work and instead devote yourself to something else . Because reading books, listening to music, and studying a lot of things like that may seem like work, but if you separate it from that work, it's something else. I think it's a bit different whether you think it's good to have a free gift or you think there are many things you need to immerse yourself in. What you just said is not leisure to me . It used to be a leisure activity. hmm. So, when I say I'm looking at a book, even if the book I read isn't covered on TV, I'm

35:45 looking at other choices to avoid trouble. Of course, I'm the type of person who enjoys knowing a lot of things, so reading books is fun and is entertainment in itself . Nevertheless, I consider myself incredibly lucky as a professional because, fortunately, everything I do is woven around work. Life. That's why, for example, I am yes. I don't even drink alcohol anymore. In these days, there is almost no socializing and what I do these days is mostly listening to music, watching movies, playing golf, or playing games . If you look at it that way, you can say that all of the time you use up as available assets is actually related to work . In this respect, I think I'm a bit of a special case. yes. Oh,

36:32 but as I said earlier, I think labor has a fundamentally alienating quality to it, and that's a systemic problem, but, uh, I think there's also something instinctive about labor . Christians believe that mankind was originally driven out of the Garden of Eden . But even if you look at it from the perspective of someone who doesn't believe in it, labor was a punishment in the first place. hmm . hmm. There was no need to work in the Garden of Eden, but when God drove out Adam and Eve for their sin, he punished them by telling them to work from now on . In this respect, life has a bit of a travel aspect to it, and life is so beautiful, but for other people, life also feels like swimming. In this respect, labor is hard, but we keep talking about it

37:18 . When I look at labor through the frame you just mentioned, I feel like it feels really different. I feel a little happier and I think that it was only natural that I had a hard time working, so I like being a pessimist. Oh, it's okay . I guess I need to change my thinking. no. This is not necessarily the case. It's different for everyone, but I hope you just think of it as me having this kind of side to me. All right. The officer has so much work to do right now, and his time is limited. His physical strength is also limited. But I'm also curious about how you get things done. Anyway, you can't take everything. There must be things you have to give up, but how do you give them up? As I said earlier, I am currently in a position where I cannot handle a lot of work. In that situation,

38:06 95% of people are actually rejecting it . But when I reject something, I feel about 30% grateful. Well, why are you still looking for me like this? I'm so sorry for what happened. Because anyway, I have to reject the expectations of you as a good person in a good sense by betraying them. Nonetheless, I think it's incredibly important to say no, especially as a freelancer . The biggest reason I left my job after 14 or 13 years was that I felt like I was losing control. To put it a little more elegantly, it could be interpersonal relationships at work or various other things, but what I've decided now is that, as I've said many times in other settings, you can't not do what you want to do . Well, as a professional.

38:53 But I had a resolve to never do anything I didn't want to do. It was also related to the reason I quit this job. In that sense, I've been doing things I really didn't want to do for 19 years, but the rewards were so great that I could do them. For example, if you meet that person you hate so much and have tea with him for an hour, I'll give you, say, 20 million won. Try answering like this . Then, even if it's someone you hate, if you go and have a cup of tea and wear it for an hour and give them 20 million won, they'll probably do it. Right? I think I'll do a demonstration too. About 20 million won. I'll just go there for a moment and close it and say, "Oh, it's 2 million won." Oh, just kidding, I don't think I'll do it. Because that's the most important thing, and that's why I quit. So

39:41 I just have a bit of a pessimistic view of life anyway, and I think, how can I live my life doing only what I want to do? That's just something celebrities and people like that say on TV. Because I have this kind of mindset, I ca n't do what I want to do. hmm. But I won't do the summer work. At least I think that's what's being maintained. If you look at it that way, there are many things that are rewarding and actually really good. Even so, I might not like it . There are many things like being invited to attend academic conferences and other great events, but there are things I can't do because I don't have the ability. When I imagine myself in that position, when I'm up there, there's something about what I'm doing that feels terrifying . Then I won't do it. I think that's the most important thing.

40:31 And I think a lot of people find it difficult to not do things they don't want to do. So, I'm being given things I don't want to do. So, if someone other than you is in a situation where they have to do something they don't want to do, is there anything you can say that might be helpful to them? well. So, I couldn't stand it either, so I ended up quitting my job. In a way, I'm a loser under that principle, so it's not my place to say anything. But when I was a reporter, there was a director who was older than me and had a lot of potential. He's not active anymore, but I really liked him. That person's personality and stuff. He was a bit close to me, but one day, he and I were walking together in Gwanghwamun Square and he started talking about this. Now that I have a bit of a temperament, I'm

41:16 a bit more prickly than I used to be. When I was in my 20s, the director told me that if you need to like reporter Lee Dong-i, you should just like him. He said this. That person is like that. In other words, if there is someone who is in a position where I absolutely must like them in a certain situation, then of course I shouldn't like that person too much, but if it's someone I don't have any particular feelings for, then I can like them if I need to . So when I heard that story, I thought, "Does that make sense?" But on the other hand, I also thought, "Wow, if only things could turn out that way." So, it may be different for each person, but if you need to like something, liking it does

42:01 n't necessarily mean you're deceiving yourself. Emotions are so deadly. I think a little self- deception can be good sometimes . In a way, etiquette has a self-deceptive aspect, and etiquette is about not revealing certain parts of yourself that are bubbling up inside, and about socially accepting them or securing a certain spatial space among people. From this perspective, it could be true. Unless it's a huge ethical problem or a complete deception of one's own fundamentals, there are parts where it plays a proper social role. And in fact, there are a lot of cases where people at work don't like you . There are many. yes. Actually, I was doing well at work, but I had extremely bad relationships with some people, and that was one of the reasons I quit. I

42:47 think so. There may be a job where you have a very conflicting relationship with someone at work, and this person is also your boss, and you have to work in a way that this person controls you, and this relationship may have to continue for a long time . Then I think it's better for me to quit. hmm . Assuming you can't move departments or anything like that . For example, 6 months. I was dispatched to a local area for a year, and there was a strange person there. So, it must be very difficult to work under that person . In this case, we actually have a one-year timeline in that situation, so we can hold on once the end is in sight. Yes, that's right. That's very important. Because I can endure the pain. So, then you just have to hold on . But there's no sign of when that will be resolved, and given the nature of this job or this work, I have no choice but to continue with that person in the long run.

43:34 Will that person be happy with that? hmm. hmm. And no matter how important that job is to you, you don't think that's the only job in the world you can have. It's an adventure, but if I have to stay under that person for that long and there's no end in sight, I think I'll quit. Actually, I quit that job, and I can tell you that, and if I may offer one more consolation, which is not a consolation at all, there is a 90% chance that someone I dislike will dislike me when I quit my job. Ah, no matter how great a job is, there are bound to be downsides . Well, that headache isn't just for me, it's for everyone else, so I can take comfort in the fact that we're all having a hard time together and then let it go. When that person is not around. Because I hate them all. So, shouldn't we all get together and

44:22 endure this as fellow sufferers, so that we can feel that we're not the only ones suffering? But if we see that the relationship is fatal, long-term, and shows no signs of being resolved, how can we endure it? This kind of thinking. But on the other hand, from the perspective of the person who is being hated, they probably don't really like being hated that much. Also, if there are many people who don't like you, there are many cases where, surprisingly, when you approach the person you don't like, the relationship turns around. So, that person is lonely too. If there is room for improvement, would n't those people actually be more open? Well, that could be the case. But I think those people are not that bothered. Because when I was younger, I used to think that everyone was the same. As I get older, I

45:07 feel like people are becoming more and more different. hmm. In that respect, even when we see the color red, we wonder if we are seeing the same color red . Including these things, it is natural to treat people and emotions, and when there is a conflict between two people in this respect, it is so painful for me. Then, that person must be suffering just as much as I am. There is something like an emotional asymmetry to begin with. I think that person's thoughts on whether or not they are feeling the same pain or having a hard time are different for each person. That would be my part. I might end up hurting myself more. That's how I tried to understand it. yes. hmm. I just think that kind of person should work in a way that makes that person less meaningful in my life . hmm. Whether it's a department transfer or just the bare minimum when you meet, for example,

45:53 you might not eat with someone you really dislike. hmm . I guess I can keep that. Because you don't have to catch it at night. Yes, that's right. Well, in some way, we can endure it by maintaining at least the minimum level of contact . hmm. yes. I think so . Where do you watch Netflix these days? Spring on BTV . If you look at it more frugally, it's BTV. Well, you've told us a lot of stories so far, and I think I've gotten a glimpse, though not the entire story, of how you think about work. So I think it's meaningful, but I don't think these parts would always have the same attitude. As the critic said before, you mentioned in

46:39 passing that confirming existence through subtitles during the week can be a way. Yes. Oh, I keep saying famous quotes as I pass by . There were so many of them. Oh, you're talking about subtitles and existence in such a noble way. yes. Even though I didn't consciously throw anything. yes. But when I think of the subtitle here, I immediately think of the critic's hiatus in the United States . Of course, you must have had a lot of input during that time, but I'm curious if there was any change in your attitude toward work during that hiatus in the US. yes. It has changed. Because I quit. You just gave me that job. Right. yes. A year later, I quit my job. If you think about it, from the company's perspective, they sent me on a one-year training program with company money so that I could do my job better and build up my expertise, or they sent me on a one-year training program with the Korea Press Foundation so that I could become a little more of a journalist, but after I went for a year and came back, I thought I

47:26 couldn't live like this and quit, so I wonder what other people will think of me if I say I did this training program. But it was just me, and the other people all became great journalists. hmm. Well, I do n't have any. But even though I continued to work for over 30 years, there were moments when I was a bit removed from my main job . As you mentioned most representatively, in 2004, I was a visiting researcher in the US for a year, but even then, I was able to do other things . In other words, it is a choice between working or not working. At that time, the work was something like a master's degree. hmm . If you work hard for a year and then go back and do some additional work, you can get a master's degree. I usually do it a lot . That's what journalists do. But should I go to the USA and get my master's degree, or give it all up and

48:11 literally spend a year doing whatever I want ? I was debating between these two options, and I chose the latter, and even now, I think it was the right choice. hmm. hmm. Because I 'm anxious, I might skip the semester. But it was so good that I didn't do that. Well, I thought a lot about what I had been doing for a year, why I had been working such a haphazard job, and although it was such a great job and something we were all doing together, I wondered if it was sustainable, etc. Was the source of your anxiety whether it was sustainable or not? yes. Can I endure this? Well, working in the media industry is something that journalists are sometimes criticized for, and sometimes praised for, but I think it's a very noble and important job. Nevertheless, opinions may differ as to whether I should continue doing it . In that sense, it was a

48:56 very decisive moment that allowed me to think from a distance . In other words, the person who thought there was only this person started to think that other lives were possible . In that respect. But two years ago, something else happened. I didn't do my job as a reporter for a year due to union issues . I am the secretary general of the union, and if I become the secretary general, I have to stop working as a reporter for a year and focus solely on that job. Ah, even then, there was a chance to take a step back. Yes, that's right. Yes, that's right. There are just two people. So, the reporter who was three years my senior was now the chairman, and I was the secretary general, so the two of us worked on union affairs. So, when I was doing that, it was union work anyway, but it was a moment when I was away from what I had basically thought was my entire life as a journalist up until then . That's when I see the context of what I'm doing. Because, for me, the union is something that looks at the work

49:43 environment and the conditions of the people and things like that, so welfare and benefits were important in that respect, and when I quit my job, I didn't quit because I was going to go to the next level and jump forward in various situations, but because I couldn't bear to see it, so I just said, " I'm willing to die." So, it was a very nerve-wracking situation, but I came out and signed a contract with Naver as a one-person media outlet, and that's how I started working . But at that time, it was very important in that blank space . While working as a freelancer, I worked under a contract with Naver for the first 3 years and 8 months as a one-person media outlet. I still feel very grateful to the people who selected me at Naver at that time. But when it was terminated after 3 years and 8 months, I was really scared. Well,

50:30 because freelancers are insecure. yes. No, that was 90% of my job . But since that job suddenly came up, I wondered if I would end up out on the street if I continued like this? There were several stages where I even thought about things like whether I should sell my house, but the fate of a freelancer is that even in the so-called good moments, I feel incredibly anxious. hmm. You buy freedom at the price of that anxiety . hmm. That's why some people can't stand freelancing. Because there is no job security, they run away from freedom due to anxiety. yes. Yes, that's right. The almost fatal flaw is that the job is insecure. It's not just one or two minor flaws. On the other hand, from my current position, it means that I will not be able to work in the future . Because

51:15 I'm actually the type of person who achieves more as a freelancer . As you live, you realize that the person who is more suitable is the right person. Some people enjoy working, collaborating with others, and working together as a team. There may be people like that . I'm the type of person who likes to do things alone . In this situation, I am a person who chooses freedom even if it makes me anxious, while some people may value stability more . There is a difference in this aspect, and this is because each time I quit, as you mentioned, it became an opportunity for me to get to know myself better. You could say it like this. So, being able to take a step back and observe something was helpful and ultimately helpful. yes. Those moments were sometimes very sad and

52:00 sometimes I thought, "Wow, is this the end for me?" I think that judge is someone who can feel both. So, even though you're a freelancer now, you feel a sense of belonging and a sense of belonging to the Phaeacia team, so isn't it great to work while feeling all of that ? Oh, this is my coworker. Moreover, I think it is a horizontal relationship, but in that situation, I am the one who is in the wrong. no. After speaking, your expression suddenly became rotten. Yes, yes, I'm joking. Yes, I think it's a level relationship. It's not because they're real, but I think our partnership with SK Broadband is really great, and from a freelancer's perspective, these people are my most important

52:46 coworkers right now. But I haven't really studied it. The workplace is relatively anti-research. Until I quit my job. Here, the team is formed like this, and after a few years, the team is formed differently, and in some places, people only meet once . Even people I meet once are colleagues to me. Due to the nature of freelance work. Because this is my workplace, because these are my colleagues, if my relationship with these people is not good, then according to the logic I mentioned earlier about the Wallaby Bell, I cannot be happy. hmm . I don't know if these people are happy . I wish that were the case, but from my perspective, I think it's because he keeps making jokes and making me happy because he wants me to be happy. Oh, then thank you very much, but anyway, I'll try my best . Because if it's going to be like this, the work is hard anyway, so it's better if it's not like this.

53:32 If I had to, I'd like to ask you more questions today, but since there 's so much to ask, I think it's time to adjust . yes. Actually, one of the things I felt today was that Manager Hyeonho Jun is growing very quickly. Really. So no. Actually, I know that Manager Ho-jun's abilities are outstanding, but it's not easy to talk to each other like this in front of the camera. And he's an ordinary office worker at a large corporation, so it's not easy for an office worker at a large corporation to look like that . Your face and everything you're saying now must have been really hard to pull off naturally. On a different note, I feel like there are a lot of shortcomings. yes. But these days, it's a plus not to talk about that . Because it seems too humble. yes. yes. yes.

54:19 What did you think of the review? Today, we're talking about work. Actually, whenever I talk about this, I always want to make it clear that I'm not saying anything based on what I know. I, too, was in so much trouble that I ran away from work and struggled so much that I did this. So, I'm also a person who has failed countless times, but I think that listening to someone else's experience of failure is a way to learn something from it . I think that through the critic's experience, it will be an opportunity to look at something from a different perspective, as you mentioned earlier . The things I've experienced and the things I'm doing now are that there's no one in Korea who does things like I do . hmm. In the following aspects. Yes, that's right. So, the first one can't actually be a role model or an example . Nevertheless,

55:05 there are opinions that some people have thought about while struggling to live. I hope you can just accept it as something like, "Oh, that's how it can be." You can emulate them, but you can also use them as a teacher. No, you can't emulate them. There's nothing to emulate, but I guess that could happen. On the other hand, teachers too. On the other hand, teachers can. yes. Any movie recommendations for today? There are countless movies about work today. yes. For example, I could introduce a media film, and there are countless other things, but today I'm going to talk about Waiki Brothers. I think it's a really great piece of work, and I think it's director Im Soon-hye's best work, and if you look at that piece, you'll see something like that. How much fun would it be to form a band with your friends in high school now? If you sing in a rock band with high school kids and do things like that,

55:52 what will happen when you get older? It 's hard to continue like that. In reality, some people become civil servants, some become pharmacists, and so on, but only one person, the main character 2-ryeol, continues to live the life of a rock band . So now I'm just going to keep doing that. But professionally, the relationship is very unstable and doesn't go well. That's why the rest of my friends have secured their own positions, but this guy is very insecure as a professional and even if he gets into trouble, it's a problem. But while we were drinking together, my friend said this. You pretend to be concerned like this, but you're the only one among us who does what you want to do . I remember that mountain. yes. Let me say this. But what would be the main character's feelings when he hears that ? So, if we think about it, we have things we want to do . For example, I have to take the exam right now and pass the CPA exam. I have to pass the bar exam. You think like this. Doctors are worried about that kind of thing.

56:38 But once that happens, the hardships end and happiness begins. Little by little. yes. no. That means that even someone who has achieved tremendous success, like director Bong Joon-ho, will continue to feel anxious about his next project. You must be anxious. yes. So, even people who do what they love cannot help but suffer, and there are fatal characteristics of a job, but this movie does a great job of relating that to life . In that respect, I would like to recommend Waiki Brothers. I just looked it up because you mentioned it, and yes. Waikiki Brothers can be viewed on BTE Plus in the genre currency monthly subscription service. People who usually watch this broadcast will think, "Wow, they're really good at making things," but you really have been looking for it for a long time . I didn't know either, and just now I was talking and I must have just filmed a video. I

57:26 guess I can get past that. yes. Please stay. It 's true. yes. What the heck, this is the end of a good story? [music]