Jamie Winship - The Journey of Knowing - Part 2

0:01 Okay. So, um yeah, so we had a we stayed up last night till about 2:30 or 2:30 this morning. And um so my favorite thing to do more than standing up here, which is is not my favorite thing to do. Um is to is to be one-on-one or in small community. That's way more effective than this sort of thing here. Um so don't be shy if you want to critique me or something like that. I was just asking my friend over here to critique me. Um, if you want to challenge me or ask questions or like please like that's the beauty of this whole thing is relationship and different perspectives. Um, so please don't be shy. Just come ask me questions or whatever. Um, so this morning

0:48 my phone beeped uh this morning and I got a text from this guy who is a he's a detective. He's a gang unit detective in a Metropolitan Police Department. He's a really good officer. Um I think he's in his 11th year or 12th year. And he texted me this morning. And I won't read you the text. And he he was telling me that he's struggling through something. And I only see this I don't see this guy hardly at all. I I've met him two times. And I want to tell you about how I met him because he texted me this morning. And I'm assuming from the Lord that this is important that what happened with this guy and how it relates to you. Um this is how the Lord speaks in all different ways to us.

1:35 But um so I don't see him very often. So he sent me a text this morning and he was telling me he's going through this particular situation. Uh they adopted he adopted a kid. Um it's really interesting uh as he's a g is a gang unit detective. he adopted a street kid um that him and his wife are raising. And um so he was telling me about this situation he's going through and he said he was going back through notes um from different things and he read some notes that he wrote down a time he and I were together like two years ago and he was reading through it and one sentence in the time like changed his whole perspective about the situation that he's in currently. So, his memory brought to the present, moved him into

2:21 the future. Um, and so he texted me to thank me for that time we were together. And I thought, "Wow, that's so beautiful because see, we're all freaked out. We think God is disappointed in us because we're not doing enough. We're not doing enough." So, um I was just just asking my friend, my Muslim friend over here, if he prays your fata, which is the opening surah of the Quran, the opening prayer of the Quran. And depending on what uh Muslim country you're in, you pray it 18 times a day. It's a very very beautiful passage. Very beautiful. I I really like it. And it's about finding the straight path, [snorts] the straight path to God. And um and so

3:07 you would you pray each 18 times a day asking God to show you the straight path. That's the prayer. It's a very very beautiful prayer. It's a prayer I would pray myself because that's what I want to be on the straight path. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your path straight. John the Baptist is making the way straight [snorts] to God. So it's interesting. Um, but when we're praying these kinds of things or from my background, a Christian background, did you have a quiet time? Hey, did you have a quiet time today? What happens if you don't? So, we get under this pressure. Did you pray fata 18 times today? Cuz if you didn't, God's like, you know,

3:52 but all religions are the same about this kind of thing. It turns into works. Like Paul says in Galatians, like you started in grace. What happened? How did you get into this works thing? Like what happened now? That's like a burden, you know. It's like I got to have a quiet time. [clears throat] Why? Cuz I God will be mad if I don't or he's not going to bless me or I won't get a good parking space. You know, that kind of thing. Um you get a parking space, you're like, "Thank you, God." He's like, "Thanks for having a quiet time. I could give you this space today." Like, really? Is that what it is? Anyway, um so it gets to be a burden in these sorts of things. But then when when you actually go back and read the or when you read the gospels or the zabur the the old and new testament and

4:39 the psalms, if you're reading them, a lot of what we say and do actually isn't in there. And what's beautiful about reading the bi the gospels with someone that's never read them before. So, I love being with people that aren't from a Christian tradition because they'll say things like most of what you tell me isn't actually in any of this. And you're like, "Oh, yeah." Like things you say, "Did you ask Jesus into your heart? Where's where was that in the Bible?" Jesus goes around going to people, "Hey, would you ask me into your heart, please?" Like, where do we get these phrases from? Like, it's just a qu like where did that come from? Jesus like, "Okay, when you go out, get them to ask me into their heart so that they can go to heaven when they

5:24 die." Jesus, that isn't what he's saying to people. Why are we saying that? So, if we really believe that the that the Bible is the word of God, then we ought to be really good at saying what it actually says and not coming up with extra stuff like that. So h so this guy texts me this morning. So last night we talked about identity. Identity is the most important thing you can know about yourself is your own identity because if you don't know your identity, you're never going to know what to do ever. You're just going to guess through life. And the way you know you're guessing is because you just bounce like and you get into this

6:12 and then I I really love this at the beginning but now it's like and then you know this and you bounce and you bounce and what happens is is is it starts to get frustrating to you and become burdensome to you and you lose joy. So I have we I have three sons um and one adopted son four. Uh so my oldest son uh he graduated from high school in Indonesia. Um he he went to American University in DC. He majored he has a degree in philosophy, international relations, and a minor in Arabic. He um has been working since the day he graduated from university for a for a Arab company in the Middle East. He's a lawyer now. Uh they put him through law

6:58 school. He's a lawyer now. He's married to a Jordanian, amazing Jordanian woman. Um, they have two kids and they're two are those two grandkids. Just recently started speaking English, which has been interesting. They live in DC right now. And but so when you're sitting with your granddaughter and she's speaking nonstop 2-year-old Arabic to you, it's hard to understand what she's talking about. And uh she calls me Jido, which is grandfather in Arabic. and her brother, her little brother who's who's there, she's now six and he's four. He calls me Jado because he thinks that's funny. So, um, but so it's so that's my oldest son. When he was when he was 16, we do we do

7:46 these things. We call them identity ceremonies or naming ceremonies. Every culture in the history of humanity has naming ceremonies until post enlightenment western world and we dropped them. And now we when we name pe our kids, we just try and come up with the coolest name possible, which is really not that meaningful. You know, this was popular when you were being born. Now it's not, but it was when you were born. So, but other cultures naming was identity received in community from God. That's what it always was. That's what a bar mitzvah is. So my wife is Jewish and so uh that's what a bar mitzvah is for Jewish people. It's a naming ceremony as you become an adult. Your name comes from God and the community is there to hear God call you

8:32 that name and hold you to that name. We don't do this stuff anymore. We're like what's your name? I don't know. My name is Jamie. I don't have a middle name because you know it's just too much work for my dad to come up with a middle name and I was the third kid and a twin. And it was just too much work. And so I was asking him, "Dad, like why did you My brother, my older brother is Robert Winton Winship III. I'm Jamie." It's like it was too much trouble. But my younger brother is Eric Charles Winship. I'm Jamie. Like so I was like, "Dad, what was happening that night? I'm not kidding." He goes, "I don't think I was drinking." That's what he said. Like ah that's meaningful. Thank you very much. Um so we don't have this naming. We don't have any sense of identity. We don't

9:17 have it. And and if you're reading, if you're so I was telling I was saying because I taught in Islamic university for a number of years uh to in order to to I taught grad students in order to actually understand my students conceptual framework. I had to become an expert in the Quran quote expert. So I studied the Quran with an imam for years so I could understand how my students saw the world. because it affected the way they processed and wrote and all that and I wanted them to be successful. And so so so when I I know the Quran quite well and the Hadith and those things and so because of that like in the Quran what the what Shan Satan is the enemy of

10:04 humanity in the Quran and in the Quran just for your benefit because we're in international communities say this is what Satan says to Adam in the Quran. Okay. So, he says, "Let me become your sincere advisor. Don't listen to God." That's what Satan says to Adam. "Let me become your sincere advisor. Don't listen to God." And Satan in the Quran is mad at God because God tells Satan to bow down to man, to humans. And Satan says, "They are made of dirt. I am made of fire. I will not bow down." And so there's the so they so God and Satan separate sin. They separate and

10:50 Satan says he makes this proclamation in the Quran in the surah. He says I will stand on the straight path in front of the man the human behind them on the right and left and I will take them off the straight path by becoming their sincere advisor. Adam and Eve. But Adam in the Quran's more responsible than Eve because it's a patriarchal viewpoint. Adam fails, sins. By the way, in scripture, in the Bible, uh in the Bible, Eve doesn't fall. There's nowhere in the Bible that says Eve fell. She didn't fall down. What did she do?

11:36 She separated. That's what she did. She sinned. She separated from God. That's what she did. That's all the enemy needs is you to separate from God. Once you separate from God, you'll separate from yourself and you'll separate from everyone around you. And you and the way you'll know you have is you will the your negative emotions will be fear, guilt, and shame pretty regularly. And all your decision-m will be self-p protection and self-promotion. When Satan is your sincere advisor, you're getting your identity from the world, not from God. So, Adam in the Quran, they break from God. They eat and God comes to them. It says

12:22 in the Quran, he turned towards them, Adam and Eve, and he says to them, Adam says to God, listen to what Adam says to God. He's Adam says to God it's a long beautiful discourse but his summation is we Adam and they cover themselves but Adam says we cannot me I cannot cover the shame of my own soul. I c I can cover my body. I cannot cover my own shame. He says to God. And so God says to Adam in the Quran says to him,"I will clothe you in my own righteousness." It's called the garment of righteousness. It's an ayah, a Allah,

13:08 a sign of God. I will cover you with my own righteousness and cover your shame and make you beautiful in my sight. And I will send my word and my mercy to you. So the very first at that event in the beginning of humanity where Adam and Eve fall the realization of Adam in the Quran is we cannot humanity cannot cover their own shame by works. It takes the covering of the righteousness of God over us. And in the Bible it says that we are clothed in righteousness. It's the exact same

13:53 idea in the Bible, the garment, the clothing of righteousness. Whose righteousness are we clothed in? The righteousness of Christ. Yes. So in the Genesis in the Tawat, in the Old Testament, the Torah, God says, I will send to you Adam and Eve to bring because I love you and I pursue you. I will send to you the one who will crush the head of the enemy who will be born of the woman which is Jesus. Right? So the idea in the Quran is God is going to clothe us in his righteousness. The idea in the Bible is that that

14:40 clothing of righteousness is Jesus. So in the Quran, the person that's called Allah, the mercy of God. The person that's called that in the Quran is Jesus. The person in the Quran who's called the word of God is Jesus. If you're reading the Gospel of John in Arabic, in the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. The title in Arabic for the word of God was with God and the word of God was God is the same word for Jesus in the Quran. Right? Now, if that's all true,

15:30 what advantage is there in attacking another religion and trying to show that it's wrong and stupid and from Satan? That's why Jesus never does that. Never. And Paul never attacks another religion. Why do we think that that's a good thing to do? We're going to disprove you. Why? Why would we do that? [snorts] So in the time of Acts, the world religion at the time of Acts is the worship of Athena. That's the dominant world religion. Nobody in Acts, nobody, none of the

16:15 apostles attack or make movies or send out tracks or booklets on what's wrong with Athena worship. They never do that. They don't have an ex Athena worshipper stand up and say, "Let me tell you what's wrong with Athena worship because I used to be an Athena worshipper and I'll tell you what's wrong with it." They never used that strategy. By oh the second century, Athena worship has disappeared from the planet. It's gone. It disappears from history. Why? Because the kingdom swept it away. But they didn't debate it.

17:00 That isn't their strategy. They just taught people how to hear God and know their own identity in the kingdom and live in it. And nothing else could compare to it. What are we doing? Like what are we doing? Okay. So that's all that. So my friend here, this police detective. So here's how I met him. I imagine doing this. So I'm in this city. I get into this particular city and what's happened in this city is there was a police shooting in the city and what happened was there was this guy the guy that text me this morning. He's an undercover gang unit guy. He's inside a gang. He's part of the gang and they

17:46 figure out one night that he's actually a police officer. So the gang invites him into this tenement building in the city where he works to beat him up and kill him. He doesn't know that they know he's a cop. So they bring him in. He's there. They're going through their thing and they tell him, "Hey, we know who you are." They jump him. They start beating on him. He he they they he has a cut on his forehead and blood is running down into his eyes. And so he fears for his life. So he draws his weapon, but he can't really see. And he's in a they're now in the hallway cuz he's trying to get out of the building before they kill him. And so he just turns and he shoots at the direction of the guys who are

18:32 attacking him. He misses them and a 13-year-old girl in an apartment opens the door to look and see what's happening and the bullet hits her in the head and kills her. 13-year-old girl, daughter of a single mom. So he So the city explodes over that. He's a white officer. This is an African-American 13-year-old. The city explodes over. Here we go. Here we go. Another police shooting. Innocent. It's a murder. It's a homicide. White officer. This is how it comes out in the news. African-American 13-year-old killed by a police officer.

19:18 Uh none of all none of that other stuff comes out. doesn't really matter, but that's so the city explodes and the city separates. That's what the enemy wants, separation into teams, right? So, everyone got on their own team and they started accusing back and forth. It's your fault. It's your fault. We need guns. We need less gun. The big fight starts, you know, and we all take our sides. And so we happen to be in the city when this is going on. And so this little church we were in, downtown church. The the young pastor is praying and he says to God, "Teach us

20:04 a different way to do this. Tell us another way to do this." Because we do the same thing every time. We get on sides. We scream and yell at each other. And then eventually it goes away and it'll happen again. And the hatred and the hostility just gets deeper and deeper. And the division is greater and greater. How do we bring this all back together? What do we do? We need a new idea. Now, who's going to tell him how to do a new thing? Nobody. Because nobody knows how to do a thing. So, he's appealing to God. Why does he think this works? Why does he think that this is possible? Because that's what the Bible teaches us to do. That's what it says. If you lack wisdom, what does it say to do? Ask. Because what happens when you ask God for wisdom? What does it say?

20:50 He gives it like how does he give it? Freely. So if you ask God for wisdom and he doesn't give it to you. What does that mean? Well, if you read through the keep reading through James, it says, "But when you ask him, don't ask HIM AND THEN NOT DO WHAT HE SAID." But see, already in his in your heart, God knows you're not asking me because you're really going to do what I say. You're just asking me because you think you're supposed to. But you're not going to do what I say. Do you know why you're not going to do it? Because when God tells us to do things, it takes faith to believe that they're actually a good idea. Like like in the Old Testament again, the story of Joshua looking into the land,

21:38 you know, he's looking into the land to take the land. the Israelites are moving. He's looking into the land [clears throat] and he looks at it and his understanding of the situation is we're in big trouble because he's looking at those guys and they have a walled city. He's like, "Wow, we've never fought a walled city before. We've only fought nomadic skirmishes. We've never done we've never taken on a military that has a fortress." And so he's thinking, "What do we do?" He's up in his intuitive mind. and he's like, "What do we do? What do we do?" That's called prayer. He's up there and then an angel appears to him, whatever that looked like or was, and his first question, you remember what he

22:24 first asked, the angel says to him this, "Look, they're ready for you to take them." Okay, so Joshua's looking at the facts. He's like, "Here's a fact. That is a big wall." Fact. Fact number two. We don't know how to take that wall. Fact number three, they're probably better soldiers than we are because we're a new army and we're just learning how to govern and fight and all that stuff. So, they're probably way better cuz they're at this position and we're at the disadvantaged position. Those are all facts. Conclusion, we're I don't I don't know how we're going to win this thing, right? The angel comes and says he looks at the city, same facts, and he goes, "Look, they're they're ready to be taken." And they're you're like, "What? Where

23:10 are you looking? Are you looking in the same way I'm looking?" So, here's the mistake we make in the rational mind. We go fact fact, conclusion. That's how we think. Fact, fact, fact, conclusion. We don't think that this might be wrong. Fact, fact, fact, wrong conclusion. The facts don't change. the conclusion really changes. So, the disciples are in a boat in the New Testament. They're in a boat and they're professional guys in boats. They live in boats. They know boats. They know the Sea of Galilee. They're experts in it. They have a squa. We lived in Israel for 3 years. Uh, and people that work the Sea of Galilee will tell you you can be out on the Sea of Galilee and a storm will come up because of the way the the geography is there.

23:57 The weather pattern comes through this in the Japanese mountains and it can stir up a storm on the Sea of Galilee that will kill you very quickly, very instantaneously. All of the fishermen talk about these things. So, they're out in their boat. That thing happens. It's a terrible hurricane. They're looking at the facts. Fact, this is a hurricane. No, you don't have to pray about that. There it is. That's a hurricane. Uh, waters coming into the boat. Conclusion, we're going to die. That's a fair conclusion. Then they look at their savior. He's asleep. Fact, our rescuer is asleep. Conclusion, he doesn't care. Right? That's true, isn't it? If he cared, he'd be do he wouldn't be

24:43 sleeping. So they go fact, fact, conclusion. So they wake up Jesus and this is what they say. Here's the fact as we understand them at this point. We're going to die and you don't care. And Jesus is like, "And those are wrong. You're not going to die and I do care." Yeah, but the facts say we're going to die and you don't care. They're you're wrong in how you understand those facts. So then he silences the storm which makes the disciples more afraid of him than of the storm then. And so and but so he what he's doing is teaching them what they should really be doing in a hurricane is be resting. He's showing them. This is the goal of what you should be doing in a hurricane in your

25:29 life. You should be totally relaxed. That's what he's showing them how to do it. He's not teaching them. He's not doing a podcast for them. He's living it out with them. Hurricane, the penial death. I think I'll take a little nap. WHY? BECAUSE we cannot die. You guys say you believe in life after death. You don't believe it. You do everything you can to protect your life. All your decisions are on how to protect your own life and promote yourself. You don't believe this stuff. That's what he's saying. Tell the truth. That situation makes the disciples tell the truth. It's called confession. And Jesus leads them into a mind change, which leads to a form change. That's how he does it. Real life, Monday morning, no

26:15 music, no candles, real life. That's where Jesus is. So the angel of the Lord says to Joshua, "Hey, do you want to know how to take that city? I'm inviting you in a new way to take a city. We're going to use sonic dissonance to do it." Joshua doesn't know what that is. And the angel's like, "Okay, well, yeah, you don't know the physics of that, do you? Okay, here's here's what you can do. Get the band. Get your band." J's like, "The band? Yeah, get the band. You let's use the band to take the city, not your regular soldiers. Let's do it a different way." Because the band doesn't really get to do anything like they don't get any credit. It's always the Warriors. Let the band do it. They're a

27:00 marching band. Let them do it. Let them play in the game. They don't. So, we're gonna use every part of our team, not just the famous part of our team. Let's use the band. So, get the band, tell them to march around the city and make this sound each day. Make this sound. The whole entire Hebraic passage is built on the word sound. That whole passage, the whole interaction between Joshua and the angel is built on the idea of the Hebrew word sound. It's all about sound. March him around, play then. And he and the angel says, "And then tell everyone else to be absolutely silent. The only sound that can be made is them blowing their

27:46 trumpets." Then on the seventh day, get everybody out there and all at the same time all of you shout and those walls will fall down. This is called sonic demolition is what they're doing. But they don't know you can do that. But they're looking for wisdom from God on how to do something. And he gives it freely. But here's the thing. So Joshua then has to go back and get his people together and say his military guys and go, "All right, we're going to take the city." And they're like, "Okay, how? All right. Well, first of all, we're not going to use you guys." Imagine you're in the Pentagon. How are we going to take this land? Well, we're going to get the marching band. What? You know, that's what we're going to do. How is that going to work? Like, do you know how much faith it took Joshua not to hear it from God, to say it to his own people? It is the stupidest idea

28:32 possible, but it's the most brilliant idea. Faith is the substance of the things you hope for. It's not magic. So, when you ask for wisdom and God will give it, you have to do it or don't ask. You're wasting my time pretending like you really want to know. So this pastor prays and says how do we overcome this shooting situation like what do we do the pastor is pray appealing to God in his pastor is not an identity really it's a vocation he's appealing to God in the identity that God calls him so my identity in the

29:20 kingdom is militant peacemaker everything I do is out of that identity. Everything I do. And when I act out of that identity, I can hear God, see God, and I'm successful. When I move one inch out of that identity, it doesn't work. That's why you need to know who you who God says you are. Right? So he prays that the Lord says to this pastor, however God communicates to him, to get with the police officer first. To meet with the police officer first. And so the pastor is like, "Well, I don't really know him and I is he going to want to meet me with me?" It's like the Lord said, "You asked me what to do. I told you what to do. Go meet with him." So the pastor does that. The police officer doesn't believe in God.

30:05 And by the time the pastor makes contact with the police officer, he's just about drinking himself to death. He's so devastated by from killing this girl. He's horrified by it's ruined him. He has nightmares about murdering this woman's daughter. He feel he has so much guilt and shame. He doesn't try and justify it. He's just absolutely devastated by it. He was pro uh engaged to be married. the girl won't marry him now because he's a total alcoholic. He's depressed all the time. She breaks off. He's just spiraling out of control downward. So, the pastor goes to meet with him. The officer is the last thing he wants to do is to talk to somebody religious,

30:51 but he agrees to meet. They meet. They have this conversation. It goes pretty well. Um, and the pastor's like, "What can I do? How can I help? What can I do?" And the guy's like, "I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I just drink all day. I don't know what to do. I don't know how to get out of this. I'm going to get fired. I'm going to get put in jail probably, but I'm going to lose my career. You know, this kind of thing. So, the pastor meets with them. Then he comes back. The pastor, okay, what's next? Well, we happen to be there. Me and my wife happen to be there. I know the pastor because he and I went through identity prayer together. And he says to me, "Hey, Jamie, would you meet with me with this guy? If he'll meet, will you do it?" I'm like, "I guess." Now, um, here's what I want you to know. I don't know what to say to this person. Like, why would I know what to say to this

31:37 person? Because I used to be a police officer. So, what? That doesn't mean anything to him. Like, I'm an American. You're an American. So, we should get along. That isn't right. I don't know what to say to the guy. I don't have any expertise in what to say to people. But what I do know is how to help a person hear from God. I do know how to do that. So, my only hope is if this guy agrees to meet with me, which is totally up to him, when I get with him, I don't have any magic words to say to him. What am I going to say? Ask Jesus into your heart and this whole thing will get fixed. That ain't right. That's not biblical. I don't know what to say to him. But I do know this that if that guy will sit with me and listen to God, God will speak to him. I do know that. I do

32:23 believe that. So, I say that to the pastor. I said if he wants to meet with me, I'll meet with him. See, it's not my responsibility to fix that guy, but I can respond to the invitation of God to be with him. I can do that and I love to do that. So fun. I love it. And I felt bad for the guy. I felt horrible for the mom who um so so the guy, the police officer, he comes to a thing, a small thing where I'm speaking. He he's there. I can see him. He's dressing gang colors, but he won't talk to me. So, okay. So he won't. That's the end of that. One year later, the thing is still dragging on. It's terrible. He's worse. I'm back in the same city. The pastor says, "Hey, he'll meet with you now."

33:09 Okay. One year later, why do you think I got to get him now? I got to get him now. Who's Why? Why? If you miss it, is it gone? Untrue. Listen, at your age in life, you're not going to miss anything. I would do we this whole lecture on time. I wish I could do it for you. Ask me alone. I'll we our view of time is absolutely false. Time doesn't pass. It's anyway, let's then we'll get into quantum physics and the Bible. But so anyway, so a year later, I don't care. It's not my responsibility. It's only my honor to respond when the invitation comes. That's all. Back there a year later, I've kept track of the incident cuz I'm

33:55 asking God, have mercy. Have mercy. I don't know what to do. Have mercy. So, back in the city, the guy will meet with me. So, we get together. I meet with him. He looks awful. He stinks of alcohol. He looks terrible. He's slowly just killing himself is what he's doing. Um, so I say to him, "Hey, listen. I don't know what to tell you what to do. I was a cop. Who cares? It doesn't matter." Um, but I I do know how to hear from God. So if you want to do that, if you want me to show you that, I will, but that's all I can do. So he said he said, I'm desperate. Okay. So he takes me back to the same building where the shooting happened. This is we go at night. We go up on the roof of the building. This is this building is the

34:43 place where he died in in his mind. I died here. Everything that I am died on this floor of this building and it's my fault. And so the cool [clears throat] thing about Jesus is he's really good with death. You know, you know what Jesus does with dead things? He raises them again to a higher level. He doesn't just bring them back. He brings them back unwounded. When Jesus walks into the room and says, "Touch my scars." It's not like they touch his scars and he goes, "Yeah, where were you when that happened? YOU GUYS BETRAYED ME. YOU SOLD ME OUT. YOU RAN AWAY. He doesn't do that. That's not unwounded again. That's a bitter person that's been resurrected. That's no value. He's raised again and he he has the

35:28 scars, but he's not wounded anymore. He's unwounded again. That's what innocent means. You're unwounded again. Someone hurts my feelings today. I die in that. I'm resurrected and tomorrow I'm unwounded again. That's a transformed life. Yeah, you can touch my scar. I don't bleed anymore from it. It's like an honor. Remember that? Wasn't that amazing? That's what he says to the disciples. Wasn't that incredible? He doesn't go, "Where were you, Peter?" By the way, he doesn't do that. That the accuser does that. Satan does that. Not Jesus. Jesus never accuses you ever. So, he we go to this apartment building. Now, I want you to think, what would you do with this person? What would you do with this person? like you're trying to

36:15 spread the kingdom, right? That's what you want to do. And so, think of the ways that you're trying to do that versus just asking the Lord like, "What do you what do you got going today?" Like, "What do you what are you inviting me into today?" Because whatever it is, I'm saying big yes. Do it. And sometimes Jesus says, "I'm inviting you to do nothing today." Would he ever do that? Yes. I'm inviting you to shut your mouth right now. That would be great. Like that's he says things like that. A lot of times when I'm talking to my wife, he's like, "And shut your mouth." Okay, good. Um, does Jesus ever walk away from people that he's talking to? Yes. Yes. He walked away from his own town cuz they wouldn't receive him. He doesn't go, I'm going to think of 10 new ways to get into that town. He walks

37:02 away. It's like, okay. G, listen. Gosh, there's so much to think about. Jesus is Jesus doesn't feel responsible for things. Do you ever notice that about him? That's why he's always at rest. He's always at work, but he's always at rest. He doesn't feel responsible. His mother comes to him and says, "We're out of wine." You know that story? We're out of wine at the wedding. We're out of wine. She's throwing this responsibility on him because he's the oldest son. We're out of wine. And here's what Jesus says. Like, whoa. He's not like p he's like don't don't talk to me like I'm your little son that's responsible for the wine woman. He's he's not that [snorts] he says woman it's not my time yet. He feels no responsibility by what she said. Does it

37:49 mean he doesn't do it? No. But who does he need to tell him to do it? God. That's what and so and when and so when when God invites Jesus into doing something, he he always does it. But he DOESN'T HE'S NOT RESPONSIBLE for it. So Mary and Martha, remember Lazarus is sick. They send word to Jesus. The one that you love is sick. That's what they say to him. The one that you love is sick. Jesus, oh no man, I got to get there. I got to get this done. It could be too late if I don't get it done. He doesn't say that. Okay, thanks. and he doesn't do anything. Why wasn't time yet? It wasn't time for that yet. How does he know when it's time to go

38:35 when God tells him? That's what he's That's what he's trying to teach us. He's trying to teach us and we're just like, "What did Jesus do? What did Jesus do? Did he take five steps? Did he say three things? What did he do? What did he do? What did he do?" That's what we're doing. That's not what he he's trying to teach you how to know what to do. How do you know what to do? because I can hear the father and I can see what the father is doing. That's how I know what to do. And guess who's responsible? The father. That's what. And so Jesus is always like "Okay they're going to kill you. Don't go to Jerusalem. What you mean self-protect and self-promote? No. Shall I not drink the cup that the father has given me? It's not the Jews and the Romans. It's the father inviting me into death. to be

39:22 raised again on the other side, the name above all names. Why would I not do that? Wow, what a way to live. So, with this guy, I get there, we're sitting on the roof, he starts to cry, the officer, and um I put my hand on him and I said, "Okay, here's what we're going to do. You don't have to believe anything that I'm going to say to you right now. It doesn't Let me ask you this question, staying in the text. Does Jesus Can Jesus only heal people that know who he is? Yes or no? >> No. He heals people that have no idea who he is. They didn't ask him for healing. Remember the the the the guy? And they come and they go, "Who healed you?" He goes, "I don't know. That guy, some guy." That was it.

40:09 Well, did you confess that he's Jesus Christ Lord of all? No. I I don't know who he is. Then he can't work in your life. Who said that? Jesus can only WORK WITH CHRISTIANS. WHAT? He came to seek and to save who? THE LOST. THAT'S WHERE HE GOES. I'm sorry to tell you, but if I'm sitting on a bench and there's a person next to me that doesn't understand reconciliation and beauty and love and all that and Jesus walks on the scene, he didn't want to talk to me. We sang it. He goes after the one. He wants He wants the person that's dying in fear, guilt, and shame. that one. You already know it. Jamie, move. Move over. Get off the bench. Let me sit next to this guy and stop talking to him. You're making him more depressed. Let me talk to him. You're

40:55 scaring that. He doesn't know what the heck you're talking about. So [snorts] that's what Jesus goes to. So, um, let Jesus talk. Like, that's the beauty. Let him talk. You ever thought of that? Let him talk. But I don't ever hear him talk. Yeah, that's a problem. Yeah, you can't give away what you don't have. Yeah, that's true. So that might be good for you to work more on that part. Abiding, it's called before you start telling another person what to do or what trouble they're in or all that. So I'm with him. I put my hand on him. Okay, this is called what I'm going to do with this guy is I'm going to share my faith with him. Listen to what I'm going to do. I'm going to share my faith with him. I'm not going to try and evangelize him. No, I'm not going to try and convert

41:41 him. God forbid. uh I'm going to share my faith with him. What that means is he thinks based on the facts as he sees him that he he's going to die and I'm going to say to him, "You're not going to die. In fact, this whole thing can [snorts] turn into something really beautiful if you just listen to the one that actually knows the truth about this whole thing and you're not going to die." I believe this to be true. Why do I believe this to be true? Because I heard a podcast on it? No. Because I've seen this happen a thousand times in a thousand different places with all kinds of people. That's why. How does anyone in the Bible really

42:27 believe? Because they lived it. They lived it out. They failed. They got up. So beautiful. So, I have total confidence, not of what's going to happen, that God will speak. Total confidence. But I'm pretty sure that whatever he says is going to be a really bad idea cuz that's his sort of his reputation. Right? This is what people say in the Bible when God talks to him. What? That's always their response. Do what? Here's what you say when Satan talks to you. I know. Here's what you say when God talks to you. I I I don't see I can't see that. And I just don't how could that be? That's how that's how you know it's God. It's unbelievable. And it's the it's

43:14 that's a crazy idea. I have an idea. Take your son up, tie him up, put him on an altar, and kill him. There's a good plan for you. Wow. What? Like what kind of So when you're reading the Bible, it's like what are you seeing there? It's like God is like crazy. Like it's amazing the things. And why does he do it? Because he wants you to be wowed and he wants you to worship. And because of you actually saw things that make you fall down in worship. But you saw him on a Thursday night when nobody was there, just him. So I'm sharing my faith with him. Paul does this in Acts 27 and 28 when he's on the ship, you know, in the hurricane and

44:00 the sailors and everyone think they're going to die and Paul stands up and go, he says, "Men," he only speaks four times in this whole dramatic story and he says, he shares his faith with the crew and the Romans. He goes, "I know you don't believe this stuff, but the God I serve, the one I know, I had a vision with him the other night and he says, "I got to be in Rome next Tuesday so I can't die in this hurricane." So, um, so I think probably what you could do, probably if you stay close to me, you'll live. I don't know. And so the guys in the crew are like, "This guy's an idiot." However, he is the only guy that thinks he's going to make it through this. All the professionals are saying, "We're all going to die. So, I'm going to stay with him." So, if we die with the lunatic, well, we're still going to die. But what if he's right? And all of them are saved

44:48 because Paul shares his own faith in God with them, and it becomes theirs. Boy, that's fun. I love that. So, put my hand on this officer and I He has a hat on. He's got his head down. And I said, "Lord, my friend here, he's dying. He [snorts] is dying. And he is filled with fear, guilt, and shame. And he doesn't know what to do. But he doesn't know you like so and but what he thinks is that you're not there. You don't talk. This is what he believes about you. Would you tell him the truth about who you are?

45:35 That's all I say. How convincing is that beautiful presentation? Whose responsibility is this thing on now? God. You know why we won't do that kind of thing? You know why we won't? because we don't think God's going to say anything or we think Satan's going to say something. Wow, really? Do you see that in the Bible anywhere? That's why we're afraid. We're afraid. But what if I was working and disciplining myself and hearing God all the time? That's how you learn anything. You just do it and practice it and try it at different levels and the level gets higher and higher. I do that with him and this is what he does. Well, as this is my friend, God, would

46:23 you speak to him? He doesn't know you. He doesn't understand you. He's afraid. When people are afraid, they can't receive. And so, he he would jerk his head up like this all of a sudden while I was praying. I was just I I don't close my eyes when I pray be. Why do you close your eyes when you pray? It's like, Lord, would you move in this room? He's like, I'm moving. Why do you have your eyes closed? I don't think you work with my eyes open. It's not Santa, you know. It's not like [laughter] we saw you, you know, it's so funny. Like move in the room. I'll have my eyes closed while you do it. Or the enemy is like ripping up the room, but you have your eyes closed. Anyway, just be careful what you're doing and why you're doing it. Like ask God, is this the right thing to be doing for me? Is this the right thing? Um

47:08 anyway, so I have my eyes open. I'm looking right at him. He doesn't close his eyes because I don't tell him to. So he just has his head down. He keeps going like this. And so I stop and I go, "Why are you doing that?" like, "Why are you jumping up like that?" And he goes, "I don't know." He said, "I feel like someone's telling me to hold my head up." Here's what God's called in the Old Testament, the lifter of our heads. Like, there he is. Boom. There he is. And and I said, "What does that mean?" He goes, "I don't know. I just feel like I need to hold my head up. Like, lift your head up. Look unto the hills. Look up there where God is. Why do you have your head down like this? Why? Why is your head down? Lift your head up. Look to me. Fix your eyes on Jesus. Why is your head down? Because you think you lost. You think you're going to die. You

47:55 think God's mad at you or disappointed in you. I'd like to share my faith with you about a wonderful life with Jesus. So he says, I hear. And I said, okay. I said that feeling, that thing is God. He's like, "So what I'm now I'm witnessing, right? I'm not prosecuting and defending for God. He didn't ask me to do that. He asked me to be his witness." That's God. That's how he talks. There's places in the Bible he tells us to lift our head up. Anyway, just keep going. Go. Lord, what do you want to say to him? He's in this situation. What do you want him to know? What do you want him to do? Every prayer in Acts, that's what they ask God. What do you want us to know? And what do you want us to do? What do you want us to know? Pray that all the time. Lord, what do you want me to know in this situation right now? And

48:40 what do you want me to do? Just practice. What do you want me to know? Stop telling God what's going on. Stop telling him what's happening. You don't know God in my huge perspective on this. I think we're all going to die. That's pretty much. And so ask him, "What do you want me to know? What do you want me to do?" So I said, [clears throat] "God, what do you want him to know about the situation that he's in?" That's all I asked. And then I just stop talking and I just wait. And my job as a believer is to hold back the enemy for this guy to protect him while he opens his soul. Like I'm just keeping the enemy back off. Back off like we did last night. Shut your mouth. Jesus says it to the storm. Shut your mouth so I can talk to

49:26 my friends. Stop threatening. Shut your mouth. We're going to talk love, joy, peace, patience goodness kindness gentleness faithfulness self-control. Now, not fear, guilt, and shame anymore. We're done with that. Shut up. So that's what I'm doing. Satan. and then just let the Lord talk to him. So my friend, the police officer, he's this is this is he starts doing this there. I know God's talking to him now cuz that's the response. That's the response in the whole Bible. It's never this. Oh yeah, okay. That's a BEAUTIFUL BLAND. NEVER. THEY NEVER SAY THAT. IT'S LIKE WHAT? That ain't going to work. We fished here all night. We know fishing. What do you know about fishing? Don't tell us what to do. You don't know codew writing in a computer

50:11 company. God. [laughter] So he's shaking his head. I'm like, "Thank you, Jesus." Like, "I know you're here now." He's shaking his head. I'm like, "Who are you shaking your head at?" And he goes, "I I he goes, this is this is crazy." I'm like, "Yes." And he's crying. And he's like I said, "What do you sense?" And he says, "I I feel like God is saying to me that I need to go to the mother, get down on my knees and apologize to her and ask her forgiveness because God is saying to me that he forgives me, but that won't release me like her forgiveness will."

50:57 My god, I'm like, that is a dumb idea. I mean, that's is terrifying. [laughter] Do you want to do that? He's like, "No." See, here's what a Christian a Christian would have said. God forgives you. Live in his forgiveness. God's like saying, "I forgive you all day long, but that's not going to convince you. Her forgiveness will set you free. Go get it. Go receive it from her and I will go before you." Wow. So beautiful. And so he goes, "I don't I'm afraid." I said, "I'll go with you. This is what an accountability partner does. I'll go with you. we'll go together. He goes, I don't want you to come with me. Good. Um, he goes, I want the young pastor to come with me. Ah, that makes more sense. It's that pastor in this police officer

51:42 city. It's not my city, right? I'm just doing I'm just attacking the conflict in the guy because I'm a militant peacemaker. That's all I'm going to do. And I am done. And so I just say, "Okay, good. Now I'm going to call you and I'm going to keep calling you until you've done this." because he was terrified to do it. So, obedience is better than sacrifice. Obedience is better than sacrifice. Obedience is better than sacrifice. God doesn't want your sacrifice. He wants your obedience. It's way more fun than trying to figure out ways to sacrifice for God. The Son of Man didn't come to be served. He came to serve you. Do you wake up in the morning and go to God, "Serve me, please." Would you ever

52:28 do that? Then you're saying to him, "Don't wash my feet." And here's what he says to you. Then you have nothing to do with me because I came here to serve you. But we're in this goofy, we're here to serve God. Really, you can't serve him unless he serves you first. It's impossible. That should be your number one prayer. Lord, serve me in any way that you want and I receive it. Man, that will blow your life up. Stop doing stuff for God and start receiving from him. Stop making promises. Start taking promises. Stop this nonsense that the enemy is your sincere advisor on all this stuff. Where like get in the word, get into the spirit. Get into a community and ask,

53:15 "IS THIS RIGHT? IS this from God?" And stop just buying into all of it. Question these things, man. The spiritual man appraises all things. Just because some person said it on some podcast doesn't mean it's God saying it to you. So he he he he doesn't really believe in God, but he knows he would have never come up with that idea. That's how they know it's not them. How do we know it's not Satan? [clears throat] It could have been Satan. How do we know that that wasn't Satan saying that to him? How do we know? How do we know? What? >> Yeah. Because Satan uses fear, guilt,

54:01 and shame. What is this doing to him? It's bringing reconciliation, life, and freedom. It's offering it to him. Is it scary? Yes. Because he doesn't believe it'll work. That's why. But if it did work, wow. So he goes, he tells the young pastor, they go together. And the pastor, the pastor's like, "Okay." And they go together. They go to the apartment. They knock on the door. The lady answers the door. So this is three years ago. She answers the door and she recognizes him. She knows who he is, the officer, and she says, "What do you want?" And he said, "I need to come in and ask you a question."

54:47 And she says, "Okay." So she lets him in her apartment and she sits down and he gets on his knees in front of her crying the officer and he said, "I think God asks me to come and apologize to you for killing your daughter and to ask your forgiveness." And he just bursts into tears. Here's the pastor's contribution. He has no idea what to do. [snorts] And and the and the officer, what he believes is that she's going to reject him cuz he killed her only daughter. That she's going to reject him. That's what he believes. Fact, fact. Belief.

55:36 And so he says, "I know you don't have." She just is quiet and he's crying and he goes, "I know. I know you you don't I I you I can't make you forgive me and I you probably don't want to, but I I just need to tell you I'm sorry and ask you to forgive me, but you don't have to. But I think Jesus wants me to ask you. and she starts crying and she says two nights ago she she said I was praying about my daughter and I had this sense from God that she was safe with him and God said what I want you to do is forgive the officer that killed her and I'm going to bring him to you and when he comes I want you to release him

56:22 and so she said I wouldn't do it but Jesus got here before you did and she forgave him. Then she says to him, "But here's what I want from you. I want you because he's young." The officer is younger than the woman. He She says, "I want you to come once a month and eat dinner with me in this apartment and I want you to tell me what's going on in your life." He goes, "Well, I'm really struggling with alcohol." Like the pastor's like, "What's going what's happening here?" Like what's happening here? She is the one that walked him out of alcoholism. The mother, she is the one that that got him re-engaged to who who is now his wife again. Now is his wife.

57:09 They're married that adopted a street kid. This is what comes out of death resurrection. If God is the one speaking and not you or me. So he started meeting with her once a month and then once every two weeks and she started coming to his house and now and so when the hearing the administrative hearing came about finally in the room where the hearing was man that room was tense and the teams were lined up in the room this side and this side. Oh, such hostility back and forth across between the two groups, you know, the police union and this community and blah blah blah blah blah blah like this using this incident as fuel for their own hatred and judgment of one another. The

57:55 enemy loves this. Oh, good to death. Let's let's divide everybody over this one. And so, but unfortunately for the two groups, when the doors open, the police officer and the woman came in holding hands. Darn it. They're holding hands and the woman turns to her community and says, "Hey, I just want to say something before this starts. This man is like my son and I am not going to stand here and listen to anybody criticize my son. And nobody came to my apartment to help me in my community. He came and asked my forgiveness and I gave it to him and he is free. and I am not going to be any part of

58:40 prosecuting this person. And her whole community's the police officer turns to his community and says, "This woman is like my mother and I will not stand here and pretend that I didn't murder her daughter and try and justify it. I will not do that. I did. I was wrong. I asked her forgiveness and she forgave me and I will not say anything negative about her." And the whole thing ended. That officer, that police detective who's married now and has this great little kid they adopted off the street, him and his wife. He now works with the most violent gang leader in the city that he's in. They're best friends now because he does a whole

59:25 new kind of policing. It's called transformative policing. And so instead of arresting people, he tries to help them hear from God. And crime in his district [sighs and gasps] is going like that. So two more things here. So my number two son graduated from high school in Baghdad. Uh he didn't really graduate because there was a war going on and there was no school and he was the only American teenager in the country. So, he didn't really graduate. He took the GED. We're horrible parents, by the way. Um, we took him out of 11th grade in the United States, moved to central Baghdad

1:00:11 in [snorts] a war zone, and so he couldn't take the SATs or any of that stuff. We ruined his future. We ruined him because we didn't do it the right way. He didn't get a good SAT score. But so he took the GED and he graduated from Oxford. That's where he went to school. So I said to our third son, "You're not even going to high school. You're taking the GED and getting out of here." Like why are we wasting all this time, all this pressure on PSAT, SAT, volunteer work. Just take the GED, know your identity, and get going. So funny all this stuff we buy into. Who's advising us on this stuff? Oh yeah, the enemy. So anyway, he graduates from Oxford in literature. Um, he knew his identity right around

1:00:58 16. Again, we pray together. God, what do you call me? He's asking God what he calls him and the Lord talks to him about it. And so he commits his life at that time to fighting human trafficking when he's in when he was 16. And so he graduates from Oxford and goes and joins the Atlanta Police Department. I'm like, he's the only Oxford graduate in literature that's on the police department. That's his name on the police department is Oxford. Um he's he so when he so he was five years in Atlanta PD and in his first year alone free from his training officer, crime in his zone dropped 60%. Because he moved into the zone where he worked because he's never shot a gun and he's never been in a fight in his life.

1:01:45 And my wife was like, "You're a poet. They're going to kill you in the police academy. They're going to absolutely You don't even know how to fight or shoot a gun." He graduates number one in the academy in both shooting and defense tactics. We're like, "Wow, we didn't know that about you." And he could write poems about it. Wow. Interesting. Um then and and so that because he graduates number one, he can pick anywhere in the city he wants to work. So, traditionally, you'd pick like the nicest, cushiest. He picks the absolute worst zone, the worst gang. And then he moves his wife and two daughters into the zone in a foreclosed house. And so he calls me, he goes, "Dad, I graduated number one." I'm like, "Oh,

1:02:31 good. So, you're going to pick the best?" Yeah. Where are you going to pick? And he goes, "The worst zone." I said, "Good. I'm proud of you." Good. [snorts] He picks and he goes, "And I'm going to move into the zone." Beautiful. That's what Jesus would do, right? And I he said, "Will you come with me? I want to walk around that area all through two nights, just me and you, no guns, nothing, and just meet everyone we can that's out there all through the night." I'm like, "Okay, fly to Atlanta. We go to this house. It's an awful house. I mean, it's foreclosed." So, um, he's looking at the house through the eyes of faith, right? That's what he's looking at, the things he hopes for. And so, we stay up all night. We walk all It was so funny. Walk down into these alleys, walk into the middle of these transactions that are going on. Hi. You know, hi.

1:03:17 [laughter] And that's so funny. And my son goes, "We're not from here." And they're like, "We know. You know, obviously, you know, what are you Mormons? What are you doing out here tonight?" Like, "What are you doing?" And this [clears throat] is what my son would say to him. He would say, he goes, "My name is Ben Winship. Uh, I I'm Atlanta PD." Relax. I'm He goes He goes, "And I want to live in this house over here, like around the block there. That house right there. And I want my wife and two daughters to live in that house, but I want your permission to live there." He would ask the gang leaders that question. Will you give me your permission to live in this neighborhood? It's your neighborhood. It's not my neighborhood. And they were like, "You're kidding. You're asking us. Do you know what he's doing to them? Honoring them. Do you know why? Because honor is the language of the kingdom.

1:04:04 He's not there to get them. He's there to honor them. You honor people, they'll listen to what you say. You insult them, they're not going to listen. You talk to them like you're better than them because you're going to heaven and they don't know how to love people like you know how to love people and they don't know how to love their kids like you know how to love your kids or your wives cuz you're a Christian and they're not. It's insulting. And so he moves in. They're like, "I guess." He [snorts] moves in. And anyway, five years of that. And I told him, I said, "If you listen to God in your identity, his identity is peacemaker. That's what he does. And uh if you police as a peacemaker,

1:04:50 either you're going to run the police department or the federal government's going to come and offer you a job." That's what happened to me. That's how he knows how to do this stuff because that's how we worked in where we lived in overseas. I would go into a neighborhood and say, "Hey, I would like to live in this neighborhood. I need your permission to live here because this is your neighborhood. It's not mine and I need your permission to live here." And they would say, "Okay." And they would they would be my friends. Anyway, um and so then the FBI came and interviewed him and they said, "How are you doing what you're doing?" He said, he explained to him he now works for the FBI. Um that's what he's doing. third son, last son. Uh, biological son. Uh, he we took him out of school when he was in eighth grade to move to Baghdad. Um, he told me in eighth grade real

1:05:37 quick. Oh yeah, we're going done here. In eighth grade that he was going to be a he said, "Dad, I Jesus met me and he told me my identity." I'm like, "Good, good. What is it? Skateboarder for Jesus." I'm like, "Okay. Do you have a skateboard?" No. All right. Well, there's step one of the pro. Anyway, and then we moved to Baghdad where there's no skateboarding because it's a war. And he was upset about that. He's like, "Dad, I'm a skateboarder for Jesus. You're moving to me to a country where there's you're not even allowed to go outside." And he was mad. And I said, "Well, h so anyway, we prayed about it together. We moved. He became, beautiful story, he became the first Red Bull sponsored skater in the Middle East. Uh he started his own skateboard company at 17 in

1:06:24 Jordan which is called Philadelphia Boards. So by the time he got to business school in Boston, he already owned an international company. The king of Jordan met with him and his friends, his Muslim friends, all of his best friends are Muslim guys, met with them and gave them land in the city of Aman to build a skate park. They have their own skate park in Aman, Jordan called Seven Hills Skate Park. Across the street from the skate park is a store they own. All by the time he was 18. Because when God said, "I want you to be a skateboarder for Jesus," he wanted him to do it in Baghdad. He just didn't know that part yet. [snorts] Don't tell God what you know. Ask him, "What do you want me to know?" And what do you want me to do? And whatever he says, do it.

1:07:09 Because you have no idea what he's going to do with you. because he loves you and he's proud of you and he wants to wow you. He wants to be your sincere advisor. Let's pray. Father, the people in this room, Lord, have identities that you gave them. All of us, doesn't matter where we were born, how we grew up, what religion we were in, we're human beings and we have a heart that was formed by you. Even if we don't get all of what that means, [snorts] we have an enemy that stands in front of us, behind us, on the right, and the left to walk us away from that identity and to make us live lives of self-p

1:07:55 protection and self-promotion. And their lives filled with fear, guilt, and shame. And we're never quite good enough, and we never do enough. And we're always worried. But your goal is that we might have life and have it abundantly that we would be alive and free. Alive and free. So Lord, in my own identity, would you just say my identity again to me right now? Lord, just say what you call me right now. Just say, Lord, what you call me? Just ask God, what do you call me? How do you think of me? How do you refer to me? What am I? Who am I? Just ask him and just use your intuitive mind to listen and then bring it down into the rational

1:08:41 like what does that mean? What does that mean? Okay. And then as you go out this morning, let me tell you the thing that's going to stop you and ruin you. Fear. Number one, fear and shame. But number one is fear. That even when God speaks, it's going to scare you because it's going to sound impossible. So, here's what I want you to ask the Lord. Lord, what am I most afraid of? Search me and know me and tell me what am I really afraid of in life? Just ask him to tell you what it is. Don't tell him. You'll be wrong. You won't tell the truth. What am I afraid of? What What am I What is higher than you in my life?

1:09:27 What am I afraid of?

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