LIVE | Manindigan: Ang debate para sa may alam at may pakialam #Manindigan2025 | April 27, 2025

0:00 We will soon be voting for the new leaders of our country, and this decision is a difficult one. As Filipinos, we will once again knock on the door of our consciences. But no matter how many times we knock, that door will not open if we do not have the key of straight and correct knowledge in our hands . So who holds that key? We invite two sides to answer that question. It's no joke to convince them to come together on the same program to discuss their beliefs that often don't

0:45 match or are unlikely to meet in the middle. Some of them have already been complained about on social media and in Congress. Facebook has ended fact checking. This will replace what are called community notes that will empower us to add additional context or correct incorrect content on social media. The ex also has community notes called Twitter. This crowd source type of fact checking will be discussed. It seems we are all united not only in criticizing but also in correcting faulty posts. What

1:33 impact do these measures have on all of us? It depends on how you interpret it. Is this an attack on freedom of the press or is it protection against false and malicious statements? As the saying goes, "We are entitled to our own opinions, but we are not entitled to our own facts." This is different from expressing an opinion. For example, if we are annoyed or happy with a person, thing, or issue. Can feelings be fat checked ? I don't think so. I guess that's difficult because we all have our own opinions. But the lie that is

2:19 repeated in the mind, often takes hold of the truth that is never mentioned in the mind, it is difficult to force [Music]. [Music] I'm Corina Sanchez Rojas.

3:06 Stand firm in the face. But before our debate and discussion, who will be the one to confront? Our companion, Mr. Alex Calyeja, will introduce them. Thank you. If you know me as a laugher tonight, I won't just be your comforter. But I hope I don't take advantage of that. Oh, that's it. Yes, that's right. This is it. Are you ready? I'm ready. Our arrows will be heavy tonight. First, there is veteran newspaper editor and trustee of the Center for Media Freedom and Responsibility, Mr. Berhel Santos. Also present was the Associate Professor of

3:52 Journalism at UPiman and the convenor of Contadaya, Professor Danilo Araw. Or their influencer counterparts. Orion Perez Dumdom, former OFW in Singapore, principal co-founder and lead convenor of Correct Movement and former first runner up of Battle of the Brains, Orion. As for him, Brian Cristobal, better known on social media as Banat, is also an anchor of SMNI. Banat by. Aside from influencers and journalists, we will also have important panelists who will listen and ask questions later. That includes

4:40 Presidential Communications Office Under Secretary Claire Castro. Former press secretary and presidential spokesperson Martin Andanar was also there. Also a panelist was the chairman of the political science department of the University of Santo Tomas, Professor Dennis Corona. Oh Corina, back to you. Thank you, Alex. Before we begin our journey, here are some things we should remember. First, notes are allowed but gadgets and visual aids are not allowed. Second, stay on topic. Don't talk about

5:27 people who aren't here. That may seem difficult, but we'll try. Third, no insults are allowed, just respect every opinion, and fourth, just follow the time so everyone can speak. And finally, I will be the one to check on our guests to make sure we are on time. There, now that we know the house rules, let's get started. Our guests have two minutes to introduce themselves and state their positions on fake news. Who should we listen to and trust? How can we determine what is true from what is not?

6:14 And as a Filipino, what is your contribution against fake news? Okay, let's first listen to Mr. Verhel Santos. Good evening everyone. Which one is more worthy of belief? The mainstream media or traditional media, the newspapers and magazines, broadcast stations, online news sites or the social media, the bloggers. But wait, before you believe, think and ask. Now, no matter what you think, no matter what questions you ask, you

7:01 still can't be enlightened enough to decide to only listen to mainstream media . Why? Social media is an individual strategy. And because of that, it's easier to coopt, easier to import. Let's not say it's easier to buy. On the other hand, mainstream media is made up of organized and registered groups of members, who have undergone appropriate training and testing and are still undergoing continuous testing while performing their duties. Propal journalists

7:46 believe that information, news, and opinions from social media do not go through a proven review system like those from mainstream media, which are carefully filtered before being shared with the public, correcting errors, clarifying ambiguities, and ensuring that each statement is not only truthful but also free from reason for doubt. This system is part of the standards that have been refined. Organized and organized, well organized within a very long universal tradition. Only at this point, it is clear who is

8:33 more deserving of belief. Thank you very much, Mr. Verhel Santos. On the influencers' side, let's call Mr. Orion Perez Dumdom. Okay. My name is Orion Perez Dumdom. I used to be an OFW in Singapore so I idolize this uh Lee Kanu and ah I'll start by saying that I have a quote from him and I'll try to imitate his voice. The Philippines press enjoyed all the freedoms but they failed the Filipino people. पर्जान प्रिपिती

9:29 मार्केटपेल. Lew's clarification of the Philippines. This is the press that we now call mainstream media. There are many shortcomings in the mainstream media because sometimes there is bias. This bias emerges because from time to time, some experts who have something different to say about their favorites are not invited. But I also actually don't really agree with the proposition that it is necessary to promote the two because it often happens that people from mainstream media also have a social media presence. They are also actually social media influencers. There are a few who

10:17 came from social media who later became what we call mainstream media anchors, like our friend Richard Hidayaren. I know you don't want to say the names, but it's the truth and I'm not saying anything bad. So where do we draw the line? Right now I'm a so-called social media person and we're here in mainstream media. So that's it. I have some previous writings that were featured by The Late Carmen Pedrosa in her Phil Star uh column. So some of what I said became mainstream media. That's all. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Mr. Dumdom. Next up is Mr. Danilo

11:03 Araw. Counter-fraudulent greetings to everyone except those spreading fake news. I hope your dish is delicious, except for those who are ashamed to be part of darkness and violence. Who should be believed? As long as he upholds the highest standards of truth, the journalist, vlogger, influencer, content creator, and other terms that refer to his work should be considered a trustworthy source of information. Okay, let's also include the term concerned citizen. Inside and outside of academia, we sometimes hear the term hyper partisan vlogger or hyperpartisan content creator. This

11:49 refers to several individuals who cried during a Camara hearing because they had difficulty defending their writings. Although it could also be said that the criticism they received from some congressmen was a bit excessive. Keep in mind that some of them are content creators who post on social media but they can also be considered journalists based on their work as editors or columnists. In our topic today, it is clear that we should not fight journalists on one side and content creators on the other because it is more a matter of being more credible based on embracing the truth that can only be obtained through in-depth research, especially

12:34 attention to detail and interaction with various sectors of society, especially those on the fringes. Is the dish of those who spread false information, especially on social media, delicious? Probably not, but this is just a taste. And because I studied in Germany, I still have a second. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for the extra time and second day, sir. There you go. And finally, Mr. Bate. Good day to all of you. Uh everyone, before I say that I think there's something wrong, I'll first say that

13:20 my name is wrong. No, Brian. Byron, please. Secondly, I think the question of who should be believed more is wrong. Is it the mainstream media or the influencers? Maybe it's better for us to say or ask what they're saying. It's not about who said it, it's about the issue, not the person. If anyone is going to spread fake news in the Philippines, it would be none other than Philippine politicians. Let's start with our president Marcos, who said that no guns entered the KOJC SIDS. It's obvious on social media, the vloggers there are live. The police who entered there had guns. I'm there. I saw with my own eyes that

14:08 Tore was carrying a long gun. The question is this. Why hasn't even one mainstream media outlet criticized this mistake? Do you know the answer? It's simple. As Sir Verhell said, the mainstream media is organized. They are organized so they cannot speak without orders from above. Thank you . Thank you very much, Mr. Banat Bay. There, let's heat up our little tank even more. Let's go head to head. There is nothing to hold back, nothing to avoid, and nothing to leave behind. Those who stand firm will return.

14:56 [Music] Will your candidate fulfill his responsibilities to the community? The governor is the chief executive of the province. The mayor of a city or municipality, among their many duties, is to deliver services for the good of society and build important infrastructure, represent transactions, manage finances, and all property within their jurisdiction. Enforce the law. Take necessary steps in the event of a disaster before voting. Ensure the candidate's competence . As Filipinos, the nation is the one

15:44 to win. Assess whether your candidates can handle the many duties of Provincial Board members and city or municipal council members. Such as allocating funds for provincial or city programs and passing ordinances for the functioning of local government. They also grant franchises, permits or licenses, regulate activities regarding the use of land, buildings and structures and provide basic services and facilities for the development of the community. Before voting, emphasize the candidate's ability as a Filipino, that's what will win. Before electing senators and

16:31 congressmen, do you know their duties and their main jobs? Make a law. Besides that, they are the only ones who can declare war, declare government, and authorize the president's police in times of war or national emergency. The congressmen [Music] represent and return the stand. Oh, okay. Let's go head to head here. Everyone has a voice, everyone has a fight. The mechanics are simple. Earlier, we heard the opening statements of the instream media and influencers. Now it's time for us to heat up the conversation.

17:18 They will be given 30 seconds to question or criticize each other. No personal debate, just a personal one. After that, they have one minute to defend their side. If you want to retaliate, you have 30 seconds for a rebuttal or final say. Everyone has a chance to speak. So are you ready? That's it, the head to head match has begun. Let's start with Mr. Verhel Santos. Before we listen to Likuano, let's first find out who he is. context, leano was a collaborationist during the afternoon, then he

18:06 installed a personal dictatorship in Singapore, then he installed a party autocratic dictatorship in Singapore. The first thing he did when he became dictator was to imprison all his opponents. So that's all that goes to the mainstream media, from ah to what on social media, all of that will go through the process of the prosecution system. Thank you very much. Next is Mr. Orion Perez Dungdum. Okay. It's fake news to say that Leanu is a dictator because what we have in Singapore is not a dictatorship but a parliamentary form of government.

18:53 The PAP can lose if they are not good. They could lose. They weren't like that before, they weren't what they were, the ones who were in power before were the labor front. So essentially, characterizing Lewan as evil is wrong . Let's look at the results. He did a good job. So why do n't we listen to what he says? That's true. Back then, we didn't really care that the mainstream media opposed certain reforms such as charter change and constitutional reform. For the longest time, the reforms needed by the Philippines have always been made to look bad. Why? Why is that? We could fix this, but it won't happen if the mainstream media is too biased . That's why, as a reform

19:40 advocate, I needed to use social media because I wasn't given the time to speak in the mainstream media. That's all. Thank you. Thank you very much. Let's listen to Mr. Danilo Araw. To President Duterte. We know that he is a very polarizing figure. And I just want to ask both of them, in covering Duterte's arrest, was there a deficiency in the mainstream media or was it the source of the fake news regarding, for example, the fact that it was issued, where did it come from? So it's good to know your opinion. Thank you . And this is Banat Bay's answer

20:27 . Ah, when it comes to the kidnapping of our former president Duterte, I think there are definitely mistakes there because even other lawyers who are not Duterte's allies are saying that it doesn't go through due process. We know that in our country, no matter what the verdict is, you have to go through due process. It's simple. Where was the so-called crime committed in the Philippines? So why wasn't he tried in the Philippines ? That's a simple question that the mainstream media can't answer because they're afraid of Tore's lashing out. Mr.

21:13 Verhel Santo, do you think we should bring the discussion back to the Philippines from Singapore ? You know, in Singapore, you can't erase the history of Leano and Singapore. And even if Singapore is doing well now, that's no reason to erase Singapore's stolen past and twist that story. That's running. If Leanu and his followers have anything to say about Singapore today, it shouldn't be here. Mr. Dumdong. Well, this is what we call fake news, the junk that is used

21:58 by some people within the mainstream media in the Philippines to confuse and befuddle the people so that they do not know what their vital interests are in the developing country. What we need in the Philippines are many things that others like Sir Verhell don't want because what he really wants is the so-called rbunious democracy. But what is needed for example in Singapore is discipline and a sound economy, those are the more important vital interests in a developing nation. Okay? From here in the mainstream media Mr. Verhel or Mr. Araw. You're right, it's good that we bring the discussion back to the Philippines because

22:45 we don't want the Marcos discussion to continue. Especially when we are talking about whether we are being asked to choose between authoritarianism or democracy. There is no middle ground and there is no compromise as far as democracy is concerned as far as our basic freedoms would be necessary. So it's important that we take this kind of important issue to heart because this is not just freedom of expression but democracy. Thank you. Okay. Oh wait. Let's just get back to the issue of fake news. I think we're a little lost. This is the only thing that mainstream media people always complain about, that there is no police on social media. The question is, don't you know that there are police on social

23:34 media? Simple question. Who are the police officers you are referring to so the public knows? Go ahead. If each network has a network, do reporters have bosses? Social media also has what are called community guidelines on the platform they write on. First, they are the ones who police them. If you publish fake news, you will be removed. That's why we have what are called fact checkers. They are the ones who police them. Second, the ones who police them are the laws of the Philippines. The laws of the Philippines regarding cyber crime, libel, and defamation are complete and sufficient. That's enough. Cyber crime is a different matter because it infringes on the basic freedoms not

24:20 only of journalists but also of ordinary citizens. Even during the era of the aves deafinya, libel has truly been weaponized . He doesn't really follow community guidelines. You have to be 13 years old to create a Facebook account, but even if you're only 9 or 10 years old, it happens. The fact checking that you're talking about on meta, at least it's been removed, at least in the United States they have a commitment to retain it here, but we don't know what's going to happen in the future. We are mistaken if we think that the only way to police social media is through authorities doing so. That also happens because there is an immediate, quick, instantaneous response that occurs. If someone says something that is not true, there are

25:06 many people who will come out and say, "What they are saying is wrong . This is proof that it is wrong." So instantaneous. It's similar to the situation before, we had letters to the editor. This is more instantaneous, the reaction is more immediate , the feedback that happens. Thank you very much . The police, not the law. The police are the police, so that's why social media, there are no police officers there. because that is an individual approach. That's up to each individual. The difference between that and mainstream media is that there is a system that allows access to social media. Even in mainstream media, even if you come from social media, if you switch to

25:52 mainstream media, you'll get there. I also just want to clarify that there are too many mainstream media outlets that have a presence on social media itself. So where exactly is the line? Where is the delineation of this? That's the question. So that's why the proposition of comparing the two is actually wrong, I think it's really wrong because both have mistakes, both have rights. The question is, who should be listened to? The one who does research, the one who seeks the truth or the one who doesn't? That should be the [Music] question. The one being looked at is not the media person. What is being looked at is whether that person is going through a

26:38 process, a screening system. If you don't go there even if you come from social media, as long as you go there, you will go there. That's what we're talking about, what are the rules and regulations and then standards. That's what we're talking about. How? How can they say that when you're on social media, you don't go through the process? There are so many people on social media who have doctorates, experts, and are highly skilled in their fields who are not given much opportunity to speak in mainstream media. So they went on social media and they gained a following.

27:24 It happens that there are many truly expert, truly talented people right there on social media who are going through a tough process. Okay. Thank you very much. What that means is if you have a master's degree, you have a doctoral degree, you'll be believed. That's not a complaint because you have a doctorate, it's because you have a master's degree. If you're in mainstream media, you go through a process. That's what I'm saying. What we're talking about here is the process, the standards. No, you can't be a doctor now, you have a doctorate, we'll listen to you. That's not what we're talking about here. Okay. Listen, I'm sorry, Mr. Banat Bay,

28:09 before we change our topic. Ah, it seems like sir is a bit lost because it seems like what he's saying here is to follow the process and follow the police in the mainstream media. The question is, isn't that wrong? Everyone makes mistakes, but it's more likely to be wrong without a process. Everyone makes mistakes, but you don't have standards, you don't have a process, you don't have a system, you're more likely to make mistakes because you're alone. Okay. Ah, okay, last sentence. What you said is good, sir. The mainstream media says they get everything wrong . The difference with social media is that you can correct mistakes within minutes. In the

28:56 mainstream media. You will correct it the next day because you will let me know before you issue an eratum. So I think it would be better if we listened to all sides. It can be changed quickly if social media makes a mistake. There are times when social media influencers are forced to do wrong. A mistake is not erased and they are forced to correct it . And here we see a willful ignorance with regard to how the media works. Social news media organizations, those with Facebook, Twitter, etc. Corrections are also quick, especially if necessary. Maybe you're referring to the magazines and newspapers that can issue eratum the next day or in a

29:41 week. Just one word, gateeping is different from censorship. We go for gatekeeping. Thank you. Okay. For now, let 's listen to the position of Mr. Orion Perez Dumdom. Regarding the opening statements of our other guests . Does anyone else want to react to the opening statements earlier? Well, actually this is what I'm just going to add. What I'm really saying is that maybe the two shouldn't be confused, it's not a matter of where you came from or so-called who you are. It's what you say. What are you saying? Is what you're saying true? Is there any basis for what you are saying?

30:26 Mistakes happen on both sides. That's what we should focus on. It's happening on the sides. So it's better for us to listen to the right speakers within the mainstream media and on social media. As long as what they say is correct . Or wrong. Let's not listen. That's right. That day. Thank you very much for what you said. The only nuance here is the matter of truth. If you read Edmund Lambeth's book, Committed Journalism and Ethic for the Profession, he says there are two types of truth. These are factual accuracy and contextual accuracy. Factual accuracy, that's easy to define. It's about correct data and contextual accuracy is about analysis. It is possible that you will be fact checked

31:12 if your analysis based on the data is incorrect. because that's why in philosophy we have what is called logical fallacies credentialism ad misericordium ah there's the whole list of fallacies and in the matter of trolling it's not just a matter of inflammatory remarks the public also needs to know the new term now this is sea lioning supposedly smart but the discussion is being diverted and there were so many then unfortunately I'll just name them thank you uh what I just want to say about what they said is uh regarding the assumption that it's being immediately generalized that social media is making mistakes. I think that's a bit too much. Let's not

31:59 generalize. Just like the professor said earlier, the vloggers cried because they couldn't defend what they said on camera. They cried because they were afraid of being despised and had no choice but to stay there. You are right. I cried because I was afraid of being despised and I also cried because of what happened during the hearing itself. Oh, of course, when you talk to them, they'll say they can defend themselves, I stand by my story, etc, etc. But if this follows the standards or normative standards of responsible writing, what anyone should have done, be it a journalist or a vlogger, is either apologize or

32:45 edit the post, especially the so-called and alleged ones. There is no place for so-and-so in journalism. Thank you. Why apologize if they think it's right? Do you know why they were crying there? I am personally involved because I was also among those invited there. Because no matter what you say to the Chamber, if they want to despise you, they will do so. That's what they did to our police officer there, whom they despised and who is still in prison even though he said he was a witness. An evidence that he himself experienced. But what was done? The subject being discussed is being disrespected if the view is not what you think is right. The

33:31 question is whether that is correct. That's the problem. Now we are investigating whether that is correct. So there is a process to see if that might be right or not, I'm not saying it might be. Possibility here. What we're talking about here is the chance of error, huh? If you don't go through a thorough process, you're more likely to make mistakes. How can you be wrong if something is just your opinion about the person. For example, you are forced to apologize because you called the person stupid. Well, if that's really your view of his opinion or his work, it's really ignorant.

34:17 But why would you force the person to apologize now? This is not an issue of forcing yourself to apologize. If you don't want to apologize, don't apologize. But when it comes to opinions, there is a saying in journalism, "Opinions matter, but there are opinions that weigh more than others." If your opinion is based on gossip, it's said that some police officers have resigned. Well, that's not true. Your premise. Based on the data, that's problematic. That's why the process called vetting is important here. Because when a fresh set of editor eyes look at it, the shortcomings will be visible. Thank you. It seems like the gentleman is very hot-headed, that's what they said. But doesn't the mainstream media also use that? Allegedly only in English. That's why

35:05 they call Pastor Kibuloy alleged rapist. alleged not proven no conviction yet and yet that's what they say but we get very angry when social media says or asks do you remember Loren Badoy and Kaer Eric were insulted because they just asked is this your budget true Speaker Romualdes said that's not what Kibuloy was accused of saying there is no factual basis for the accusation what is the alleged saying okay so thank you very much to our gentlemen are you also standing in your seats

35:52 well another round of confrontation the issues of the people will be answered more seriously the conversation will be real talk watch out for the return of the stand up [Music] Will your candidate be able to fulfill his responsibilities in the community? The governor is the chief executive of the province. The mayor of a city or municipality, among their many duties, is to deliver services for the good of society and build important

36:37 infrastructure, represent transactions, manage finances, and all property within their jurisdiction. Enforce the law. Take the necessary steps in the event of a disaster. Before voting, check the candidate's background. As Filipinos, the nation is the one to win. Assess whether your candidates can handle the myriad duties of provincial board members and city or municipal council members. Such as allocating funds for provincial or city programs and passing ordinances for the functioning of local government. They are also the ones who grant franchises, permits or licenses. Regulates activities regarding the use of land, buildings and

37:24 structures and maintains basic services and facilities for the development of the community. Before voting, emphasize the candidate's ability as a Filipino, that's what will win. Before electing senators and congressmen, do you know their duties and their main jobs? Make a law. Besides that, they are the only ones who can declare war, declare government, and authorize the president's police in times of war or national emergency. Congressmen represent their own district or party list. The senators, on the other hand, focus on national issues and if

38:11 the president and vice president fulfill their duties, the president of the senate will stand as president. Before voting, ensure the candidate's competence. As Filipinos, the nation is the one to win.

39:04 [Music] And the stand is back. The conversation was already getting heated. There has been some heated debate over the issue of who should be held accountable for someone who makes mistakes in their statements. the lack of accountability and the alleged bias of the mainstream media. It's like the heat, Alex, because you would think the answer to the question of ah fact versus mm opinion would be simple. The fact and opinion you are shouting about are also different

39:49 . Is that just an opinion or is it outright wrong? Right. Mm. As for me, when I listened, I was like, "Oh, in their argument, I realized that there are mistakes on one side and there are also mistakes on the other side." They don't want to argue, but they want someone to prove that there is nothing wrong with your system. Mmm. Others are responding that we also have a system that is not the same as yours. That's my understanding. But at the end of the day, it seems like there's always a bad apple on both sides that we need to identify by being there for each other and being who we really are. That's true. That's it. The truth is you cannot turn the truth upside down. According to. Or what would those next to you say about that? This is me, of course there are whispers

40:35 here. Someone is restless. And you want to ask this question to the person next to me. This is it. Come on. Come on. What name? Good evening. Alex. I'm Brian Basa, reporter. Wait a minute. Is it really Brian or maybe Byron? Yes. Not really Brian. I'm really Brian. At least we checked this before we learned. Hey Brian, what's your question? What is your question? That's for our gentlemen from the mainstream media because of course we don't just report anymore, even vloggers and influencers are now reporting on their online pages. So should the content of news-based influencers be regulated ? Huh? Anyone can answer that . His question was serious.

41:21 self-regulation. Yes, government regulation. No. That's why these quadcom hearings, these tricom hearings, that are about investigating fake news, the goal of these should be to see how self-regulation can be strengthened. Not the legal regulatory framework that would further control the media. Now internally, regarding gatekeeping, it is up to the news media organization to decide whether they choose to regulate the reporter's personal social media account internally. But that usually doesn't happen. That's it. Is the answer okay with you, Brian? Because if it's not okay, you'll go to the other side so that

42:06 the influencers can side with the influencers, maybe you have an answer to Brian's question, Mr. Domdom. Well, actually what I really want to say is that first it has to do with what Sir Verhel said. Um, because it seems like he really doesn't like Leanu because he's a dictator, he said he's a dictator now because he's strict about what, in the press, he's strict about freedom of expression. What's happening now with social media is that people are really free. So there was what we call freedom. Why doesn't he want to? I thought that was what he wanted? Isn't it? It seems like there's a problem . Contradiction. Okay. Mr. Sun. The contradiction

42:53 will only be apparent if there is no gatekeeping in the media or to be more particular in the so-called legacy media. What we would like is for social media platforms to exercise responsible gatekeeping so that there is at least some semblance of a process or system that my colleague Mr. Verhel Santos is mentioning. Because when it comes to freedom, we don't want an anarchic setup. But freedom of the press should be fought for, even though it comes with responsibility. Thank you. Ah, I just don't understand what you're saying, sir, that social media seems so free. We have a law that actually polices every social media post. So

43:41 why can we say that social media is free to lie? Well, if we also have a law that is sufficient, I think what you are saying is regulation, I think our law is sufficient to regulate everyone. In fact, it is not possible to make a law that goes against freedom of speech. That's in our bill of rights . Okay. Maybe from our panelists, Mr. Martin Andanar is here, do you have any opinions or questions? Thank you very much, Sister King. Good evening to all of you. I agree with Sir Verhell that traditional media is more organized and has more specialized training. Uh but how do you explain the fact that many

44:27 social media political vloggers are more prominent today than traditional reporters or traditional commentators? Does this just show that there are shortcomings in traditional media? There may be a shortcoming. That could also be due to culture. What kind of culture do we have? We have a voting culture today where partisans are either fanatical or cultish. Because you gave the news that Suoting would

45:13 accept his persuasion because he was fanatical but didn't think it happened, meaning indoctrination. If I may, what I want to say here is that it happens on social media because we don't have what are called time limits or the space limitations of newspapers, I'm sorry, the article only needs to be this long . So there are a lot of things happening where there are people who are truly skilled, truly experts in their fields who are able to express their knowledge on social media, which is why they are being heard. like SAS for ex SAS Rogando Sasot when it comes to international studies and relations. So there are those kinds of experts who will be given more chances

45:59 to speak there. Thank you. Ah, let me just answer what Sec. said. Martin why more people are complaining on social media. Ah, it's just sad that it came from a gentleman who seemed to be saying that Filipinos are stupid. But I think that's why Filipinos are more engaged in social media because they can relate better. At the same time, they can say how they feel about the specific topic. Unlike mainstream media, they won't be listened to because of course they are an organized, office-based organization, unlike social media, which is more personal. So, doesn't it seem like opinions are okay, right? And usually on

46:44 social media, opinions are expressed, but what about what is called outright error or lie? Yes, it's very, very clear . We will see what is disinformation, what is fake news. Let's just give an example here. This is in the news. Needless to say, there's nothing here about the Supreme Court supposedly ordering a TRO, but there isn't. The Supreme Court itself calmed down here. That's blatant fake news. So, we're not talking about opinion here. That is factual. So other than that, it's immediately obvious that he's doing something wrong by providing this kind of fake news or disinformation.

47:30 Okay. So would you like to react to what they said? Yes. So, as we said earlier, maybe that's why social media influencers are said to be disorganized because first of all, there are house rules here that don't mention events or people or events that are n't included in our program today. But let me ask Mr. Byron, huh? You to you to your name you up to your name banat. So when you said there was no order from above, okay, how did you or what did you do to

48:15 verify this? Are you being teased? Is this a network? Is this mainstream? And what method did you use to verify this? So that when you say there is no order from above, you can tell the people that it is true. We need to look at the circumstances. First of all, it's very obvious. It's obvious on social media that what you're referring to, ma'am, is that the police have guns . That's it. I would like to apologize. I would like to cut uh Mr. Byron. My only question is what did you do to verify that there was no order from above or no order from

49:00 above. We don't have to mention the event. I just want to know what you did to find out if there is truth to the fact that there is no order from above. Did you ever communicate with the owners or whoever you're talking about? Ma'am, I was explaining before I was interrupted. I'm explaining that the circumstances are, I think my opinion was organized, the reaction was not released in the mainstream media, and for a moment, there seemed to be something wrong with what our president said. So it's just your opinion. So you don't have any proof to prove that there was no order from above because that's what you said and you're making it factual. So as of the moment

49:47 it's just your opinion. Correct ma'am, I didn't say anything factual. I keep saying that this is my opinion. No, earlier you said that you spoke to someone and they said that it wasn't released because they said there were no orders from above. So is that your opinion ma'am? I didn't say I talked to anyone. So in other words is that your opinion? Yes, ma'am. It's my opinion. So this is not factual. It's yes, ma'am. So you cannot prove your statement that there was no order from above. Yes, ma'am. What I've been saying repeatedly for a while now is that this is just an opinion. Even though I vlog, I always just react to mainstream news and say that this is my opinion.

50:32 In journalism, it cannot be said to be just an opinion. There are many angry editorial writers and columnists. Because opinions are based on empirical data. A student who says "this is just my opinion" will not pass the thesis defense. Please respect my opinion. Falsehoods will be told just to express an opinion in order to chase clout and chase viewers. Thank you. But my question is, does that mean that it's forbidden to give opinions on social media? It's not forbidden, but it's wrong. It is wrong to give without basis. If it's not based on data, it's as simple as that, wrong. That's how wrong he is because many minds are poisoned when opinions are

51:19 not based on truth. It's okay to be wrong. Thank you. Okay. Professor Dennis Coronation. Ah well um actually I have a lot of questions what ah but I'll just amend Attorney Claire's question what Yusek Clair's I'm interested in knowing because at least in traditional media they're very transparent what the process or system is going through now on the part of the influencers and social media personalities I want to know what the process is or if there is any vetting process that is going through before you release

52:05 content whether this is a fact or opinion. Ah, in my case, I always talk about the Philippines' need for constitutional reform. And I have a lot of empirical evidence myself. I have many citations of academic um uh white papers and all these kinds of dissertations that argue that we really need to remove all anti-foreign direct investment restrictions. We need federalism so that jobs can be spread to different parts of the Philippines and we need a parliamentary system so that our government can be more efficient. Now, what is happening is the scientific method, which is my basis because I come from the STEM discipline, computer science, management information systems. That's all. It's

52:52 okay. Okay. Just one word. Ah, we avoid credentialism as much as possible . Because in academia, it's true that there are experts and I'm not questioning the expertise of our colleagues here, but everything goes through peer review. And in the context of a news media organization, there is de facto peer review when it goes through the editor. For example, I'm an associate editor at Bulatlat, but two editors have to look at an article before it can be published, and sometimes we even reject it. Thank you. Unfortunately, for example, here in the mainstream media, charter change, the constitutional reform, has been criticized very badly for the longest time. So there is no choice. It is necessary to expose the facts on social media

53:38 . These studies, the empirical evidence that these reforms are really necessary. But it's not that it doesn't come out. This doesn't appear in the mainstream media as much as the counterarguments, the ones that make these reps look bad. That's my experience because this is my expertise or what I concentrate on. Thank you very much . No matter who the expert is, that's a thesis, there's no proof and you can't say it's a fact. What you are fighting for is your credentials. I'm a bit lost here. I don't have a college degree. So that's not what we're talking about here. That's all

54:23 just an opinion. So you can't pass that up, you have to accept it because of your credentials. That's not true. The right honorable mention the right honorable gentleman has made a mistake in saying that this is all about um credentialism. This is not about credentialism. It has nothing to do with me. This has nothing to do with me. It has nothing to do with my credentials. What I'm talking about is the scientific method. That's the process I used, which needs to be empirically based. There are so many academic sources that I mention. Not because I'm an expert. Nothing. I'm not an expert. I only have a bachelor's degree in computer science and then management information systems. I don't have a master's degree. I don't have a

55:09 PhD. I'm just an ordinary person . That's just the scientific process , let me repeat, it needs to be reviewed by other people. That's why pre-print publications aren't taken very seriously. We are not saying it is not true. But we are waiting for the actual review. In journalism, let me just repeat, it has to go through the right process. Not because I know anything, I'm the only one who can be followed. Just because I'm the boss chief doesn't mean you can just publish my article. There is a process and that is what must be followed. Thank you. Okay. So Alex, there are reporters next to you. Yes. Yes. They wanted to give their own report a while ago. Yes. Of course we're next door, man,

55:56 we're here. Please introduce how handsome our other brother is . Hello, Jess Delos Santos from News 5. There you go. Of course not, Koreina Alex, but we are talking about the fact that one of the things we always think about is accountability, a sense of accountability. So others might think it's a bit superficial, but we seem interested in knowing as well. So, when it comes to accountability, you should be confident in revealing even your name. Attach your name to every story or report for our online personalities. Why do most vloggers hide behind a pseudonym or a character in an image that is not their real face? According to. And I think we also think that in the mainstream, there are those who have

56:41 screen names in the mainstream, so we can balance the question, right? Is there a reason behind that so we can know too ? Ah, I can't answer about other vloggers who use and hide. As a matter of fact, I don't want it. I hate vloggers, even those who are party members, who hide behind other faces. You should stand by what you say. That's why my email is right there on my channel. You can email me your side or whatever. My name is there too . People know my face. I'm not hiding because I can stand by what I said. More intense in mainstream media. Why? You reported who edited it. You guys, right? The news room editor. If something goes wrong, we have a problem

57:27 there. Why would the person who reported it be blamed? ' Well, that's what happened, so blame the reporting. That's why I keep saying, let's not blame the reporter or cameraman. Because they have nothing to do with the final news. The problem is they don't know who edited the news. The editing process is not like that . The editing is done while the reporter is right next to it. So the editor can't just follow whatever he wants. And editing has layers. From the very beginning, there was an editor who ran a troop of reporters. Replying to that editor. That editor has another

58:13 editor next. There's more, huh? But all of that is done while all those people are there . Do you have something you want to say? Yes. No. Sir Berhell is right, what he said was just for clarification. Yes. He writes his initial draft of the script of whatever he needs to write but at the same time it will go through the producer as a layer. So I guess we also need our own checks to make sure it's factually correct. Write in the right context. The angle of each story is right. Of course, this is also based on the details revealed by the reporter. So what's that? The reporter, the producer, and even the editors in the newsroom all work together. Ah, it seems like the picture

58:59 I took was wrong, sir. I have no problem editing. What we are just saying here is the first question about accountability. Social media is more accountable because it's obvious that they themselves expressed their opinions. So you can immediately say you're wrong. Unlike a reporter, if you report it, we'll admit it. We report a lot and then edit the rest. It's not complete. So when we say that the account there is a bit lost, we can't blame the editor, who we don't know . Okay? It's not that if you

59:45 work in mainstream media, that can't be published. The editor will look at it and tell you if there is a difference. Theirs, if they don't write it, it won't be published in the mainstream media. That's something with layer upon layer of checks. So you can't come through today, if you have an opinion that doesn't stand up to the truth, it won't be allowed. That's it. Let me repeat, sir, I don't think you understood me. I have no problem with what he says. What I'm talking about is the issue of accountability. Okay. Let's sing first. Thank you very much to those who asked. Okay. But what if Mr. Day returns, and it seems that

1:00:31 Mr. Verhel Santos is also being served by the seat. We will only drink cold water. Come with us both. Okay. Our conversation is getting heated. Or else. Later, the panelists will test the knowledge. by mainstream media and influencers. They will still be subjected to severe questioning. This is the program you can't mute, scroll, or zone. Those who stand firm will return. [Music] Will your candidate fulfill his responsibilities to the community? The

1:01:18 governor, the chief executive of the province. The mayor of a city or municipality, among their many duties, is to deliver services for the good of society and build important infrastructure, represent transactions, manage finances, and all property within their jurisdiction. Enforce the law. Take the necessary steps in the event of a disaster. Before voting, verify the candidate's identity. As Filipinos, the nation is the one to win. Assess whether your candidates can handle the myriad duties of provincial board members and city or municipal council members. Such as allocating funds for

1:02:03 provincial or city programs and passing ordinances for the functioning of local government. They are also the ones who grant franchises, permits or licenses. Regulates activities regarding the use of land, buildings and structures and maintains basic services and facilities for the development of the community. Before voting, evaluate the candidate's ability as a Filipino, and let the people win. Before electing senators and congressmen, do you know their duties and their main jobs? Make a law. Besides that, they are the only ones who can declare war, declare government, and

1:02:50 authorize the president's police in times of war or national emergency. Congressmen represent their own district. Standing up has been making a comeback in recent times, with social media influencers mentioning that they have more accountability because they are the ones who face it themselves. Unlike the mainstream media that is organized. Yes. Also organized in hiding after a mistake or due to bias. We'll talk about bias later. So far, after two rounds, there has been a fierce debate between our guests. Now, our

1:03:36 panelists will be the ones to ask questions again. So for beauty pageants, this is the question and answer portion. They are the Palace Press Officer, Undersecretary Claire Castro, Martin Andanar and Professor Dennis Coronason. Our guests have one minute to answer . You can react, but only within 30 seconds after the answer. Let's start the Q&A with Castro. Yes. I'll ask the social media influencers again, but it looks like they're going to hit Byron again, Banat By. We asked. He said earlier that it's normal to call people stupid, people who are content with them are stupid because

1:04:22 that's their opinion. And oh, they probably also think that they are the smart ones because they are the ones who are content with being the stupid ones. So that's a given, that's an opinion. But when you said, Sir Byron Banat Boy is Banat Bay, for example, you called a lawyer who had content with you, you said attorney no case, that's not an opinion because it's supposed to be factual. Did you talk to the lawyer to find out that this is not a case? Because it's one way that you somewhat discredit the content you're sharing. So have you spoken to the lawyer to find out if he really doesn't have a case? And if not, isn't one way of making it a giving this information? Ah, first of all, I'm not saying this is disinformation.

1:05:08 This is what netizens call him . So that's just me saying that, I'm not saying that the person is literally no case . No case just means he doesn't have the right issue. Oh, that's it. So that doesn't mean that he doesn't have any cases to handle just because he's a trial lawyer. Yes. Yes. M So at the time it was just an opinion . Yes, ma'am. He is not factual. Okay. That's all. That's it. We can just continue with the opinion because we always seem to be confused on the issue of whether social media should deliver news or opinions. It is repeatedly said that social media is just an opinion, which, as you said, is wrong.

1:05:54 The opinion is not wrong. Why? For example, if I say that watermelon is tastier than banana. This is my opinion. You can't say it's wrong. If bananas taste good to him, I can't tell him that's wrong because that's an opinion on social media. That's right. We only have opinions and reactions to the news that is happening. It's different, Mr. Is the so-called attorney no case a stretch? When we say attorney no case, to the average person, this lawyer seems worthless because he has no case. So maybe you should clarify that too so that the person you are sharing content with doesn't get offended by ordinary people who don't understand what you're saying. You are right, ma'am. I also clearly say that in my vlog. In

1:06:41 fact, the house even lost its case against Tulfo. So that means there really is a case. So that's clear. I'm not saying it's my opinion that he really doesn't have a case because I've mentioned several times that he lost the case. Thank you. Okay. The next person to ask questions is Mr. Martin Andanar. Sister Kuring, many people want to be enlightened on this issue. uh from our uh mainstream panelist, mainstream media, we know that the big media companies in the Philippines, almost all of them are owned by big businesses or businessmen. And all these businessmen, businesses have their own interests. Isn't this the reason why the viewership of our black timers,

1:07:27 our vloggers is increasing, because we know for a fact that they have no hidden interests. How do we reconcile this problem? What democracy guarantees is that you will not receive what is right. This is not a plurality of voices. With so many periodicals, so many journalists, so many media influencers, the focus is on what the constitutional point is of plurality. The more you have, the more you have, the better. It's not because there are

1:08:13 many of you, there are many of you, what you're saying is right. It's not that different. All that is guaranteed is a plurality of voices. Well, it's not different. So that's what's happening. So, whether it's mainstream media or social media, that's the constitutional guarantee. Many people are talking. I will just follow up on Sec Martin's question on the issue of personal interest. Because that's what makes social media different from an organized network where the network owner has other businesses that they may not report if something goes wrong. For example,

1:09:00 there is a mining, there is an electrical like this. How can you defend that if the owner you are standing against is the owner of [Music], right? This is where the plurality of voices becomes important. It's possible that a media organization has business interests . For example, mining. There is also a network that is anti-mining because the owner is an environmental advocate. So their framing is different and the one who benefits from this is the public. But on the assumption that the News Media Organization is straight forward and transparent about who is behind their operations and that in general some

1:09:46 news media organizations are becoming transparent. Thank you. What you said about transparency is good. That's why I believe that social media vloggers are more transparent . Why? Because as social media vloggers, you already know that we have a political leaning or bias with ED. You know that we, for example, are a Duterte supporter, but the problem with the mainstream media is that you are trying to pretend that you are not biased, but we know that because of the interests of the leader or owner, you may be biased by the media. There are two things: first, the bias for the truth, and second, based on normative standards,

1:10:31 giving a voice to the voiceless. But of course this is just theory and in the practical implementation of news, of course there are competing interests. Not just the media owners but also the editors. But there is a process that goes through and the credibility of the news media organization will be questioned if their interests do not align with the interests of the majority. Thank you. You are right, sir. That's why some mainstream media questioned it because the bias of some was obvious. I'm not referring to any network here, but we'll see in the reports, I'll give you an example that I won't name. There is a DJ who no longer criticizes the traffic issue on NLEX

1:11:18 . Why? Because an owner back then was the owner of his network. Okay, let's leave the issue of bias aside for now. Or Mr. Professor Dennis Coronason. Well, actually my question also has to do with bias. Um, because Sir Santos mentioned earlier that the beauty of uh you know the existence of media in this country is that there are so many of them. There's freedom, so to speak. And in the process the plurality of voices that sir says is formed. But sir we cannot deny the fact that in reality, you know, despite the presence of this so many media traditional media

1:12:05 outlets, there are still those who dominate. Those big media outlets. And we also cannot deny the fact that uh they are owned by businessmen who have some connections in people in high places ah in our politics what. So, um, how is that possible? It seems like plurality of voices doesn't happen when there is an oligopoly when it comes to media ownership. That's a really big issue, our culture of connections. That's really a lot of work, isn't it? The

1:12:53 only difference is that it connects differently . This one is connected differently and this other one is connected differently. So you'll both just be fighting over that. And in the process we are hoping. We are just hoping that there will be some distillation. What is filtered is distilled . 'that's the opinion but the facts are not what they are, there's nothing there's nothing there in the facts, no there's no compromise there, the opinion is what I just don't want to happen, for example, your opinion is based on taste, it's very superficial, right? Anyone can have an opinion on taste, so explain why you have that taste, what's not, our problem here is more serious, so we're not talking about taste,

1:13:40 okay. Okay. In the old days, when there was no internet, we had something called letters to the editor. And ah, I used to see newspapers with things like that. Every now and then I see some really great letters to the editor. The comments of some of the writers themselves are even worse. Nono. So what came out here on social media seemed to be very extensive, very large letters to the editor. This is where the beautiful things come out. There are some that are ugly, but there are also some that are really great, very beautifully said. There are so many facts, what is factual, the basis is solid facts . Thank you. Okay, second round of questions. Chief Castro will ask again

1:14:27 . Yes. As we said today, there is a lot of fake news being said and I know the mainstream media has found out about it. So right now, what should the mainstream media do to eradicate or at least lessen the fake news that is currently being said to be supported by a country? Of course, the most basic thing here is to institutionalize fact checking. Ah, it happens, but it needs to be more regular . And of course, a more critical analysis of issues is a key factor in combating

1:15:13 disinformation, whether it's on social media or wherever it comes from, regardless of which country is funding it. That is why it is the basic duty of journalists and also content creators to ensure that they follow the correct standards of providing opinions based on empirical data. So I'm not saying that giving an opinion in general is wrong. Let's clarify that an opinion is wrong if it is not based on two accuracies. Factual accuracy and contextual accuracy as enunciated by Enmund Lambeth. Thank you . Given that there are many people on social media who are really very expert,

1:15:59 very specialized, who have never even been given the opportunity to be invited to the mainstream media, and they are out there on social media expressing their opinions or their findings, scientific findings. Why do we make social media look bad? Well, this is where we see the really lengthy discussions that are no longer limited by space considerations and time limits. Thank you. And let's listen to Mr. Martin Andanar's second question . Thank you, sister Kuring. Ah, you mentioned the hyper partisan blogger earlier, Professor Araw. And I think it is no different from the hyper partisan supporters of the

1:16:46 past and now who are really noisy. The only difference is that there is a platform, our vloggers now have a platform. Now, do you think what we should do is educate our viewers, our listeners, more? You are right, aside from fact checking, I will continue with the explanation. that's media literacy, media education. It is also important that he is involved in ensuring that people really know what the truth is and not just learn how the media works. and a key issue in media literacy and media education is the importance of gatekeeping, which should

1:17:33 not be mistaken for censorship or media repression, because gatekeeping goes through the right process, like this program, with many people involved. Not only will Corina do things that she will be the one to follow, but she can also assert that this is what we should do. Apparently, the spirit of collegiality should be upheld. uh whether in the media or in social media that's why when it comes to accountability it works both ways. That media on one hand, the traditional media and social media on the other. Accountability is important. Thank you . When it comes to what they say about how to fight with your faith, it's simple. Get the right news out. That's what Sec Martiny did during President

1:18:18 Duterte's tenure. During President Duterte's time, the most fake news emerged. What did the PCO do at that time? Real numbers. Bring out the right one and let the person judge. Because if you remember that time when it was said that thousands died. It doesn't mention names, but it shows how many people actually died . Real numbers, real information to combat fake news. Let's get to my question: what is the definition of fake news? And are you on social media, and vloggers, also angry about fake news? But first, what does that mean? Mr. Santos, you know

1:19:03 the contradiction in terms of fake news. Mm. The news is the truth. So that's not true. That's what fake news means. Oh, now why? What is the fight against fake news? What they say is true. There's only one way to fight fake news. Truth is, foralhood is the enemy of truth. It's so easy to say, isn't it? That's why Kurina says that lies spread very easily. Well, because of a culture. The problem is really culture. Your culture will determine whether or not fake news will spread easily

1:19:49 . If you look at our education levels, they are very low. That's one. Secondly, we did not focus on culture. We did everything politically, that's why it happened. [Music] First, I'll say that fake news actually does come out sometimes, and fake narratives do too. Not just fake news but fake narratives. Apparently, the comments that come out of the mainstream media are what we call bias and it comes in many different forms. Sometimes there's a plethora of opinions that are inclined towards one place. For example, the anti-liquan attitude of many people in the Philippine media. Unfortunately, that's the case, but we

1:20:35 ordinary OFWs have seen that things are actually better in Singapore. We are freer there because we are not afraid to walk at 2:00 a.m. in the morning down in Singapore. That's it. Okay. Alex, what do you think? What is fake news? Ah, I'm the fake news, I won't do it now because we want to thank our sponsors. So we must be truthful. It can't be faked. Yes. It's not them if it's because of them that we can't have our fill this afternoon. That's before we go into commercials, I'll mention again that we'll be thanking our sponsors. Many thanks to Good Pastry Cafe and of course Umi Sushi for our delicious food and to RLI furniture for our set. And of course,

1:21:23 we're all wide awake here, not just because of our topic but also because of our morning coffee. Thank you very much. Back to you, Corina. That's all you really have to say. Yes. Why haven't

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