Mamma Mia! (2008) dir. Phyllida Lloyd | Showgays: A Movie Musical Podcast

0:00 hey girl girl when I know which one is my father everything will fall into place I knew your mother when she was a real goer and I was the right Rebel I'm a father we lived in Paris but that's amazing I speak French [Laughter] yeah could you be my father what how dare you assume I'm straight walk along the side Our Last Summer I can see it all Our Last Summer can you sing haven't you seen the movie you'll find out later

0:45 [Music] I do drawing could you be my father [Music] one word to use more than one word for now one word the line properly she made it fun she was absolutely approachable and she was I thought very much in the spirit of it and I think she's at the heart of why it works no more Ace to play [Music]

1:31 the victory [Music] nobody has had her career as a movie actress done so much phenomenal work she's you know an icon to us all I think she knows that everybody's a little bit around her and then I met her and it was easy so easy to be around her okay okay I think that things will never be quite the same having worked with her that she just comes with an ambition not just for what she's doing but for the whole

2:18 project when you think about how much you've got to take on board playing the leading character you know learning all eight or nine songs learning the choreography it's like a Master Class [Music] [Laughter] does anybody won any more I can't hear you I said does anybody win anymore that's crazy thank you very much thank you good night please donate to comic relief that was the point I'll be good yeah thank you I thought we'd retired yeah we have retired yes no she hasn't

3:06 returned attainable yeah at work I can't find the way out [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] thank you [Music] you are the dancing queen young and sweet only 17. dancing [Music]

3:51 um I did debate whether it should be this or me just fully doing the entire uh The Winner Takes it all it was those those were the two options I don't want to talk why don't you you record that on your own time and splice it to the episode so I don't have to listen to it in a full Studio situation like go go for it I'll do instead of like the normal thing where I do transitions between each segments so by the time you've listened to the full episode you've heard my whole version yeah but we'll keep introducing them as songs in the musical but every time just be another snippet of Adam singing perfect um welcome back uh we we are flying through the year um can you believe it's May can you

4:38 believe that Molly has a pH um probably not quite yet not the beginning she's this is May 15th May 15th I may have a PhD she may in May she may in may I may um but who's to say we won't know until the end who's to say main may you know me um RJ how are you oh it's great um it's May uh shining the sun is shining oh it's a beautiful 70. as we record this today uh and it's like 77 degrees here in Chicago so yeah it was up to 70 in Madison even it was amazing it was beautiful today we had an ice cream cone today yeah that's

5:25 how nice it was walk down to the local Creamery I do know how often you two eat Johnny's Ice Cream because he's literally posted on Instagram every single time every single time yeah we we just we love her and Jenny if you're listening Jenny I want to make a musical about ice cream I want to do waitress but it's ice cream and it's called scoop ER scooper is there a term for people who scoop ice cream like Barista yeah I don't think so you worked at ice cream I did but I think that we were just called like servers or whatever employees yeah

6:12 scooper I do like scoopers scoopers there's a there's a there's a dog poop connotation with it though that's the problem I'll I'll Workshop it well when we yeah when we're in workshops for this Jenny's right at la mama experimental theater yeah absolutely yeah yeah all makes sense Molly this week you have the challenge to summarize the substantial plot that is um are you up to the task I hope so okay your time starts now bride Sophie finds her mother's diary from the summer that Sophie was conceived and decides to invite the three men that her mother had flings with that summer Sam Harry and Bill to

6:58 her wedding so that her father can walk her down the aisle in insane decision Donna's friends and former bandmates Rosie and Tanya arrive to celebrate the wedding as well the three men arrive and separately come to the conclusion that they are Sophie's father Donna thinks that Sophie is feeling overwhelmed due to cold feet about the wedding but Sophie reveals she is upset about not knowing her dad Tanya then hooks up with a bartender Donna and Sophie makeup and Sophie asked her mother to give her away at the altar Donna confesses she doesn't know who Sophie's father is and finally realizes that that's why they're there and Sophie invited them the men that decides that they don't want to do a paternity test but instead to just share the role of being Sophie's father Sophie who apparently only wanted to get married to finally have an excuse to meet her dad postpones her wedding to travel the world with her fiance instead

7:45 Sam proposes to and marries Donna on the spot Bill hooks up with Rosie Harry hooks up with a hot waiter and we all exclaim Mamma Mia in Greece amazing that was incredible very good um very well thought out well planned well curated every small subplot was touched upon yeah um great RJ we didn't we didn't even mention the original name of this episode which was Mamma Mia AKA Mama may I watch Mamma Mia this may yeah RJ came up with that one happy Mother's Day by the way happy Mother's Day yes happy Mother's Day to Nan happy

8:31 Mother's Day to read it happy Mother's Day to Joy who will never hear this episode Jay will never listen to this but she is here in spirit because she loves Mamma Mia yeah we want all mothers to have a great Mother's Day regardless of whether or not they listen to show and the greatest mother of all Mary little stream Mary Wall Street um RJ what is your I feel like you've told me that your family really liked Abba but does that mean they liked Mamma Mia so I yes growing up my family loved Abba they we have the Abba Gold collection on cassette uh they had multiple videos of

9:18 their concerts like the Abba was the soundtrack to the Silva childhood experience I will say equal parts Abba equal parts Carpenters equal parts uh Earth Wind and Fire those are like the three Mains so we were very seventies uh in the households hates the Carpenters so my mom also does not like the Carpenters oh wow you don't believe the one band that she can name as like actively not that one that's the one I know I do not like I'm curious you know what's funny is I have this Christmas this past Christmas I really got into the Carpenter's Christmas album because I was like it's just so plain Merry

10:05 Christmas yeah darling yeah ugh so good anyway not about this It's Gone Too Soon Karen Carpenter this one's for you um so we had a yeah we were obsessed with Abba I remember when Mamma Mia came out I I we had like a DVD copy of it like my mom loved it but I never saw it I was just like I think I just like was kind of culturally aware pop culture where like Filipino culture like pop culturally aware that it was like fine like it wasn't like amazing but it was like kind of I don't know like it was just like the movie or yeah the movie like cheesy um

10:51 and it wasn't until the second movie came out Mamma Mia here we go again but I was like okay I think it's funny time I watch Mamma Mia and Adam was like okay let's do it so that was the first time I ever saw Mommy I was right before we watched Mommy here Mamma Mia here we go again so that was like what 2017 2018. uh but yeah so my breadth of knowledge is definitely more Abba focused than uh Donna Focus Donna and the Dynamo focused so what about you uh what about you Molly next that's fine um so I saw a non-ek tour none Equity

11:37 tour production of Mamma Mia when I was young I want to say it had to be like 2 000 and like three or four so 12 ish and I don't remember anything about it I just remember that it was like I don't even think I knew like I I didn't have that knowledge of like ah it's grease like I didn't get that at all so I probably just thought it was like Italy or whatever but I knew it was like a Sunny vacationy Spot and I knew it was music that I had never heard before so because somehow I had missed ever hearing Abba and um I thought it was fine and I literally

12:23 can't remember anything else about it other than like kind of the Bare Bones like there's a daughter and three dads I think I remembered like that much um and then I saw the movie when it came out because we were in high school and I hated it um hated the movie like I would like be like Mama me is one of the worst musicals I've ever seen that was like very my energy it was that nine those were like yeah nine was also very bad but I I love nine yeah and then we watched it we watched it again when I I watched it again with RJ when it was his first time watching it when Mommy here we go again came out and I was like this is a little better than

13:08 I remember but I still think it's got its issues and then this time I was like I'm all in this is one of the best movies I've ever seen um this is serotonin um this is an antidepressant and that's important yeah take two take two Mamma Mia's in the morning yeah two Mamma Mia's and you're good to go oh good to go uh but I mean I still have like issue I don't think it's like perfect but I do think it's like aware of what it is which is very important to me Molly I have a feeling that you do not like mahumia what is your history with this property I want to start my relationship by apologizing to the community because I know how important ABBA is to the gay

13:55 community which absolutely yes you know who are serving in this podcast um I don't like Abba I've tried to like Abba I cannot like Abba I don't like disco I just that's I think that's the key I don't want to listen to any music that was produced between I'm gonna say 1954 and 1995. I would say that covers a lot more than disco but yes no it does but disco is right in the middle of it too so it's like the peak of what I'm not interested in yeah so I first saw this movie in high school um because I grew up in Minnesota a lot

14:41 of my friends had cabins so in high school we had like a girls weekend where we all went to my friend's cabin together and we went into town and we saw this movie and all of my friends loved it and I did not and then they wanted to listen to the music for like the rest of the weekend and I had to like awkwardly not along well everybody thought like Molly's the musical person surely she's loving this and I I just couldn't I just don't understand the music and let me say this it's not because it's meaningless I love meaningless Pop I was a Kesha fan long before it was cool to like Kesha okay absolutely like love meaningless pop music I just totally like musically aesthetically do

15:29 not understand why people like this music so I am very apathetic towards this movie song foreign [Music] we have to like talk about ABBA is it Abba or Abba should I say Abba I think it's ABBA is there a right answer because it's a I mean it's I'm gonna say Abba it's their initial so it doesn't really matter that's true so

16:14 Abba a bear um they were formed in 1972 uh its members are oh there we go agnetha felt sock false Cog Bjorn uvais Benny Anderson got that one and Annie Frid lingstad um three of them are Swedish one of them is Norwegian I did not bother looking up which one was Norwegian um but they're all Scandinavian uh and two of them were mayor they were each married to each other that's the not the right way to say that egg Nathan Bjorn were married and Benny and Annie Fred were married okay um so uh they 472 but they won

16:59 Eurovision in 74 with Waterloo okay that's Waterloo so then they like rode the wave until 82 and they had like hit after hit after hit they were mostly they were like biggest hit in Australia it was like their biggest place that they uh we're a smash success or whatever but they were they were pretty consistently like on the top of the charts not number one but um like in the top ten on all the like English-speaking markets the whole time they broke up in 82. their marriage is dissolved um it's actually very sad toward the end of their like time together they're

17:46 because they were having all these problems with their relationships their lyrics started to become more like frustrated and serious and all that stuff um the broken 182 92 uh was ABBA Gold when they had their compilation which was like a huge Resurgence because it like was one of the highest comp highest selling compilation CDs like ever made or whatever um and then in 99 Mamma Mia opens in the West End in 2008 Mamma Mia the movie happens Mommy here we go again happens in 2018 and then after 40 years they remade they make uh in 2021 they make Voyage which is their newest album which came out last year and then this year

18:32 they have like a a run in London called Abba voyage and it's like a I don't even know how to explain it it's like their concerts but they're virtual but they're not and they're they're called avatars they are Holograms that are projected into the space so the concert is live and that it's a live audience it all has to gather in this one particular location but what they're watching are Holograms of oh yeah it's crazy um so that's that's the like the quickest way I can sum up Abba um first uh just for some accolades um they apparently estimated record sales are between 150 and 385 million in the

19:20 span of their time together um they were the first group from a non-english speaking country to which a consistent success in English-speaking charts such as the UK U.S Ireland Canada Australia New Zealand South Africa Club another club um they are the best-selling band originating in Continental Europe which I always forget that technically they're like I'm the like Channel I always think is like their their it's like a big island basically for the Scandinavian countries like I forget that Russia connects do you know what I mean does that make sense what I'm saying I do understand what you're saying but that's so funny because it would never occur to me to think of them as not in Mainland Europe so it's just interesting your brain does that I think

20:07 it's also because they're so everything like about that area so uh Viking heavy so I just think of them as like a seafaring people because they were like an island so they had to go another I don't know they again are not an island in any way but yeah absolutely not famously in fact not an island Coastal Coastal Sweden yeah yeah um and then they were they joined the Rock and joined they were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2010 they are the first and only artists to receive this recognition outside of anglophone countries um and then in 2015 the Grammy the recording academy uh added Dancing Queen

20:53 to the Grammy Hall of Fame um I also I did some research on Abba because shockingly I couldn't find any academic articles referring to either Abba or the musical Mamma Mia no one's decided their scholarly interest in the topic and that's just so surprising because I feel like there's a bit with like feminine like a feminist lens that you could like view this movie and also like just like the how the allusions to like Greek Theater that you could like obviously at least draw like academic parallels too yeah I was also surprised I found some some like journalism about its prominence in the gay scene but not like any academic work and I feel like that could be good just somebody's looking for a PhD topic maybe look into it

21:40 um so just adding though onto the museum thing also in 2008 because the Resurgence due to this movie coming out Abba finally agreed to open their own museum and Stockholm like there was people who were asking them to open a museum and they had resisted but it was like the Resurgence in 2008 that made them say like okay fine yeah we'll do this so now there's a museum for them in Stockholm as well I would visit that that'd be fun I also learned two fun facts about Abba while I was reading about them today so they they're known for like those costumes they're like Luke's absolute turning Luke's in the 70s and apparently they were so crazy because they they the the Swedish like um tax law in order to do a tax

22:27 write-off on like apparel for like work or whatever is it has to be like it you could only do it for this one specific thing so like in order to prove that they were never gonna wear this in real life and that's why they were so crazy yeah funny because I think a lot of Americans would think like oh Europe that's what Europeans do like those crazy Europeans and that was not happening the article I wrote about it said I don't know if this is the wording in the law but it says the tax deduction only applies if it's too outlandish to be worn in the street which I love as a metric okay um and then the other thing I found out was Abba so they they were like adults like adults adults when they like became

23:13 famous like it wasn't like they were like 18 and they were like lol whatever like they were already like in their mid to late 20s by the time they like got popular so they like had families and stuff so they didn't do like a lot of concerts and he uh I think Anderson said that they probably only did a hundred concerts in the entire 10 years they were like a band and um which isn't that many especially now when you think about how artists like only make money from yeah yeah yeah um but they didn't do a bunch of stuff and then uh they didn't really like flying and one of the members I don't remember who it was was like very nerd like a very scared flyer and had kids at home and didn't want to leave them for a ton of time so their manager was like well we should like film we should just

24:00 film you guys so at least we can like get you out in other markets because it's easy like with the new with people having televisions like we can easily like just film you like singing and throw it out there so like they are referred to as one of the first like music video like their stuff is like one of the earliest forms of like music videos which is like crazy yeah because they do they also do all the effects where it's like a face on a face with a like swipes and like fades in and out yeah I will say I appreciate all of these impacts they've had on the the musical realm and every time I read an article about like all the artists who were influenced by them I tend to like although it's like a little Nas X and like Kylie Minogue and whatever

24:47 um so like I really appreciate their outlandishness even though like when I read that thing about their costumes then I went and looked up some of their music videos and I will say like by today's standards it's not exactly oh God what are you wearing in this music video I mean right because music videos you associate with people wearing stuff that you would never wear in your regular life right um so yeah I feel like I I love the Aesthetics and the idea of it but it's kind of actually the same this I'm gonna really piss off the community here it's kind of the same way that I feel about Lady Gaga will I use this all in the same episode um I'm like bow and yang in that SNL scary tweets out the it's gets better

25:33 skit where he then he tweets out something about Kylie Rich absence music being just okay to move cities because it gets fully so I walked by other days [Music] um anyway what was I saying oh the way that I feel about Lady Gaga is like I really appreciate her as like a dramatic presence in the world but I do not like her music like I oh almost never do I hear one of her songs and I'm like yeah that absolutely I just kind of like her vibe more than I actually like the stuff she makes yeah I mean that is very interesting I've always thought about that just like pop music in general like it really is just people's personal tastes because like yeah like I can appreciate like what a specific like person is doing and like

26:18 in theory I would be into it but like sometimes it just doesn't like I just I for I will I'm not a Taylor Swift person like that music just does not connect with me at all even though I know she's a great songwriter like I know her impact but just nothing clicks so I I kind of I I I understand like where you're where you come from about but even like when you compared it to like Kesha it's like yeah I also love Kesha but like you would think that like that kind of like I can appreciate Kesha music could translate into like a Gaga or an ABBA but sometimes it just hasn't yeah I would love to tell even more since I've um fully offended the community now I'm ready to air my grievances no no no

27:06 no no I want to talk about it's it's impact in the gay community oh yeah uh back pedals redeem yourself I know the her story okay so um anyway so Abba was like never cool I also read about how in Sweden it was also like they weren't very cool because of Sweden's very egalitarian and they were very commercial so swedes were like this is not our gig we're not into it interesting but so they lost they were like popular but uncool for a long time and then they kind of lost the popular part even when like disco died so in the 80s that was when the gay clubs like took Abba and I was even reading stuff about how even in the 70s the gay clubs

27:51 weren't really into Abba but it was like after they weren't cool anymore then there were some DJs who like took their stuff and started remixing it and it became this like really central part of the scene and the article I read talked about how which was written by Walters I didn't write down his first name I'm pretty sure it was a guy um they wrote about how if you look at Abba's music there's like always something a little bit contradictory about it and a little bit like dancing through pain kind of a Sia situation but but a lot more fun exactly and so at that time we're like a lot of the activism was around like we're gonna keep dancing and appreciating life even as like death is very present for our community that it like really spoke to that period very Jamie he also talked about how the

28:37 gender Equity of the group is very appealing for the guys that in the quote was being strong women and sensitive men who love and respect each other is Central to the group's Alchemy as well as to its enduring lgbtq appeal this is who we are too and how we want the world to be and I thought that was really sweet I love that it also talked about how um it's a big it's like I think Mamma Mia is the song that's at the end of Priscilla Queen of the Desert there's like an ABBA song it's like the end of that it's big in Muriel's Wedding which I noted as like maybe in other future showcase I mean I don't know if it's like all a musical but I know there's like an ABBA musical number so it could be I don't know it could be a patreon episode or something um so that there was this research so

29:23 this is around like the late 80s early 90s where the way that ABBA had like maintained in these like marginalized queer communities then got like re-highlighted in these movies and then they kind of like got a little bit more of a mainstream Renaissance at that time as well but it was the gays who kept them alive in the meantime yeah um I think yeah now that transitions actually really well into the musical because the musical so um the musical opens in 99 in the West End um and then it opens on Broadway in 2001 so I I have a theory this this musical which is the ninth longest running Broadway show of all time wow is the still running in the West End so it's the sixth longest running west

30:11 end show of all time um specifically about the Broadway one for America it opened two weeks after 9 11. and there's something that I think this musical is very aware of like what it is and what it's trying to do and like it isn't it's just there to be fun and I think there is something like I'm not a I'm not a huge fan of jukebox musicals I think they don't always work and I think more often they not they actually don't work um but like I think this one works better than most and I think a lot of musicals jukebox jukebox musicals which for those who I I

30:58 should have said this but jukebox musical is musical in which a jukebox musical is a musical in which either like all the songs are um by a specific artist and the story is like has has nothing to do with the artists themselves they just are using that artist's music to like create their own story um which is like what this is or like a Jersey Boys style where it's all Jersey Boys music but it's also about them so it's more of like a biopic jukebox musical or you can do like a Moulin Rouge where like every song is just like a popular song from the radio and they're all just kind of covers but there's like an unoriginal story kind of like trying to intertwine them all together um those are like the three classic versions I would say um yeah it's actually kind of funny now

31:44 that you lay it out that way how liberally we apply that term it's like we should have more specific terms for those yeah but jukeboxes applied to all three um but I think this one works really well for a lot of reasons because I think it's just like fun and is light and like maintains that pretty much throughout the whole thing so you don't have to like you there's no like fake like oh let's be sad there's no like big heavy drama moment even even though there is like a dramatic number there's no like big cloud hanging over the atmosphere of the show like you never feel like these care it's a it's a comet like it's such a comedy um but I think also it being the show that opened right

32:30 after 9 11 helps like buoy like ever how everyone felt and it's such a Nostalgia piece for people who are like front who like lived through the Disco era and like remember like the height of ABBA and stuff like that so I think that kind of like helped Propel it along for a while um that's just my theory I didn't I'm nobody that'll be your PhD it's my PhD um anyway so the music and lyrics are by Benny Anderson and Bjorn Alves um I don't know if you know this but they wrote chess which is another Musical that has never been made into a movie but um I did not know that and I was like oh whoa so that's what they like did after they like broke up or whatever and I've never um

33:22 it's almost like Jekyll and Hyde and Vibe where it's like very epic music because it's like discussing yeah it's like cold war it's closer to like a I don't want to say a rock opera because that's kind of but it's kind of that but it is like more more way more dramatic than this for sure um the book is by Katherine Johnson who got into a little bit of hot water um there's a movie from 1968 called Buona Sarah Mrs Campbell um it is a movie about an Italian woman who has a daughter uh and she has she had uh sexual she had sexual intercourse sexual Congress sexual relations yeah

34:08 woman gentleman yeah out of wedlock three like GIS during the American occupation of Italy and um they all come back and like the plot of the thing is like to try to figure out who the father is and so some critics of the original musical were like I think you stole this now in in Catherine Johnson's defense I feel like that is very specific and I'm not trying to say that that's not specific and maybe she did pull it and I don't know but I also feel like the idea of like finding out who your parents are and they're being three like I think a lot of these are just like tropes that it's like insert Trope here it feels a little like saying like uh Shakespeare stole Romeo

34:54 and Juliet because like people have done star-crossed lovers before like yeah yeah yeah when it's that abstract of a story you can't really steal it right their one thing though was like apparently they were like they they moved it to Greece because it was if it was set in Italy Mamma Mia would make sense but then it would be too close to Buona said or Mrs Campbell and I was like that's not a Greek phrase I don't know but I mean this song already existed to be fair yeah um it feels like it feels like they must have known that Bona Sera existed and chosen not to set it in Italy for some reason that's the like sus part of it but I don't feel like that means that they necessarily watch that movie and we're like let's steal that plot but

35:41 like they knew to avoid it yeah but also like again but like so much of it is just ABBA music so to be like you didn't make that up when Abba was in was the one between the composite you know what I mean like what are you talking about yeah um so felita Lloyd who directed the movie also directed The Musical oh um both in the West End and the uh Broadway production obviously so I think this is the first time in showcase history where like the same director has done the the stage adaptation and the the film adaptation wasn't Jamie wasn't it the same or it was like the choreographer of the stage show directed it the director was someone who was like

36:27 involved in the stage show from my recollection yeah I think it was I think he went from choreo to director um maybe I'll cut that part up maybe I will do some post post edits um but I thought that was interesting and also this is our second woman yes whoever directions two women you guys first Alum I think of the show right like someone who was in a previous movie oh yeah on this run because we also had Christine in the first season we had Christina and we had Julie

37:13 and Meryl Merrell was in the first season into the woods oh yeah yeah but in this season I think it is Christine if we're not counting Alex the the slay You Think You Can Dance uh Ensemble member who has been in like four of the movies that we've seen okay first major character yeah I think that's I think it's Christine yeah you are the winner we're gonna send you an award and hopefully you'll send us a video you have won a tip a five thousand dollars powered by cash app um anyway we'll send her a plaque so at the Tony's this was nominated for

37:59 best musical best book best performance by leading actress by perform best performance by a featured actress and best orchestrations and did not win any of them foreign so the movie as I said is directed by felita Lloyd I love the name Felida it seems like a disease or an infliction um and the the Affliction is fun oh yeah Affliction not infliction infliction I don't believe is a word I don't think it is but I'd love to know what it means in inflict inflicts me some knowledge about this gameplay is uh also with Katherine Johnson who did the book for the musical

38:45 um it is produced by Judy Kramer and Gary goatsman uh it Stars Meryl Streep as Donna Pierce Brosnan is Sam Colin Firth as Harry stellen Skarsgard as Bill Julie Walters is Rosie Dominic Cooper is Skye Amanda Seyfried is Sophie and Christine baransky is Tanya Tanya um the cinematography is by Harris zambar lucos which is a Greek name uh it is edited by Leslie Walker the music is by Benny and Bjorn the production companies are relativity media Little Star Productions Play Tone polar music it was distributed by Universal which I think makes Universal our most watched distributor in this revival showcase as

39:32 well um it will send Universal a plaque as well it opened I'm gonna say specifically for America and it opened on July 18th uh 2008 its running time is 109 minutes um its budget was 52 million and it it made 611.3 million dollars it is the fifth highest grossing film of 2018. wow do you know know how much of that was U.S box office versus International I didn't look at that no I'm just curious because it's so music heavy If part of its success is that it was probably easy to export to other countries sure um I mean it let me look real quick hold on box hold please while we hold data verify

40:24 uh uh domestic okay domestic is 144 1 million and international was 467. wow so but I don't know what the normal ratio is yeah so that doesn't actually help um but congrats to congrats to the world congrats to miss Mama congrats to Mama um so other the other movies that in okay top five the opening weekend for the United States domestic box office number five was Hellboy 2 the Golden Army uh number four was Journey to the Center of the Earth a movie again I movies I just don't

41:12 recall happening yeah I don't remember them redoing Journey to the Center of the Earth I think it think it won what is his name Josh Josh sounds correct question very good we got there together number three was Hancock which I remember this one that's the Will Smith uh superhero movie um number two is Mamma Mia that was its highest point in its box office was number two and The Dark Knight was number one crazy too crazy to think the same time as the Dark Knight yeah I'm Batman truly what a weekend to see those two together yeah well girls night boys

41:57 night yeah Dad see Dark Knight or Hellboy or Journey to the city Earth or Hancock and only women see Mamma Mia only women in closeted Sons see Mamma Mia um at the for the awards consideration for the film uh this movie was nominated at the Golden Globes for best Motion Picture musical or comedy and Meryl Streep this was Meryl Streep's like run at the Run of globes where it was she was nominated she had that golden shoes I think this was one year or two years after Devil Wears Prada which like re-kick started that whole like that oh I think this was two years after Zorro's product because

42:43 I think it was delmar's product it's complicated then this and then some other stuff later anyway yeah so she did double worst Prada and then a bunch of stuff that wasn't worth anything basically is what happened we let her ride double worst product for a long yeah until she was like I'm ready to be an actress again capital A and did Iron Lady Julie and Julia that was also in this time I think 2009 yeah um and then the golden raspberry Awards um worst supporting actor went to Pierce Brosnan most probably because of the singing I'm guessing I have a compilation of things people said about history the acting was good

43:31 it's simply bad but it's not as if oh people aren't appreciating the amazing performances also it's not like because you could compare it to like the Russell um the Russell Crowe the Russell Crowe Les Mis but at least it's like he's performing a a very high stakes role I don't know I I just watched a YouTube just recommended to me the rehearsal of the Les Mis cast for the Academy Awards and seeing everyone else in that room like know what they're doing and being and then Russell gets Russell Crowe and he's like desperately trying to keep in time with the music and figure out and he's like and he's so clearly lost and I've never felt so bad for a movie star in my life but he's just like so he's just in this

44:18 room so full of competent people and knows that he cannot keep up with them we'll talk we'll get there um so let's talk about my favorite aspect which is casting so uh Sam who is played by Pierce Brosnan he could have been Bill Nye actually Bill Nye was considered Bill Nye oh sorry you really gotta hit that extra sauce yeah n-i-g-h-y bill bill bill it was gonna be Bill Nye the Science Guy um he actually was just considered for any of the three male roles but um the every man he will play all three characters uh Davey Jones and his locker um also for Sam Donny Osmond and Antonio

45:05 Banderas um uh I don't at least Donnie can sing but I feel like there's no like 2008 star power what's there with Johnny asked you know what I mean that had to be like a rollover from some like theater person being like he's so good in Joseph in the filmed Joseph that has to be like Stars guard is guarded but he's not like the star like I don't think anyone was like I gotta see the Stellan sarsgard joint when they went to see Mamma Mia I don't know if any of the men were really driving the the fact that in the like the way that this movie is credited in which stellen

45:51 Skarsgard is ahead of Christine baransky just tells you what a wild time we were I I had I noticed that too but then the thing underneath it is the actress who played like his PA or something so it's clearly an order of appearance it's not in order of importance um I don't think that's true because I think Meryl's first we gotta look up we gotta look up Mamma Mia opening or closing credits we gotta fact check this in the moment in the moment mama [Music] uh cast cast all cast

46:36 in credits order Amanda Seyfried Sophie still and his bill pierces Sam oh yeah I guess that's right yeah and yeah Christine is last like Merrell was first in the morning in the like in the opening or in the opening and like closing like the like title card ones I think okay wait yes because I'm reviewing that I'm looking at the video so there's like they do Dancing Queen and then they like do names on top of the video and then there's like the Scrolls and I thought you're talking about the scroll but you're talking about the title cards yeah gotcha well

47:22 then that's unconscionable but I think it's because this is like the pre-christine Renaissance like her last thing she had done was like Chicago and um not the last thing she'd done obviously but it wasn't like she had done Chicago and she had done um uh uh Grinch and those were like in Chicago sunshine so she's like she seemed like as like a player yeah like an ensemble player yeah yeah which is just weird to me I knew I also think if the movie was made today she would be even higher than Julie Walters nominated actress so a Dame go off Queen

48:09 um anyway Tanya could have been Cher which is wild wild because in the sequel she is Meryl Streep's mother [Laughter] crazy who is a very uh never named role in this cat in this movie but she's alluded to but she's not yes yeah and she's I I have a problem equal so in is it's all in flashback though right or it's all it's all a prequel to this so she is parts are in prequel it's both prequel and sequel yeah so she is playing a woman old enough to be Meryl Streep's mother currently absolutely with the face that she has it's incredible yeah um Sophie could have been Mandy Moore

48:55 Amanda Bynes Rachel McAdams Emmy Rossum Kiera Knightley okay I think I only like Rachel McAdams on that list as for Sophie I mean I feel sad when I hear Amanda bynes's name because I loved her so much yeah as a child and the way that her life went downhill is very very sad to me so it makes me wish it were her because I wish that I lived in the universe in which her star she like continued yeah yeah I think Mandy Moore would have been great too many more has the Sophie energy yeah for sure a little neurotic not neurotic but just like when did Tangled come out 2010 right and she was probably like what in her like mid late 20s by then she had to because she made Princess

49:41 Diaries in like 03 and she's probably like 23 in that so maybe she's like 28 in this and around this time I have no idea what how old Mandy Morris because I was gonna say how old would be playing the age that she is playing on this is us I'll say that yeah say that because I was gonna say like maybe she was she would have been too old for Sophie but I also I'm like I think I made aside food technically was maybe too old but just played I mean Amanda Seyfried will always play a teenager yeah it's crazy can we talk about how Amanda Seyfried is the most successful cast member in being girls and would you ever have guessed when you watched Mean Girls for the first time did Karen would be the most successful I probably would have said

50:26 that it was Rachel McAdams right you know you would have said it's Lindsay Lohan that was like Peak when Lindsay's career was like yeah because at least she she was also like I'm also a pop star so like there were like Avenues yeah yeah but Rachel McAdams you know sugar and Rachel McAdams has continued to have a career I mean she's not done poorly or anything she definitely did more like MCU money she's got MCU money she did she got an Academy Award nomination for uh she's in an Academy Award winning film best picture yeah but I still think Amanda Seyfried is more famous than racism I think so she had like bigger point right now in time yes she had like bigger roles and and bigger flashier movies I think okay I really want to watch I really want to watch the

51:12 Dropout yeah I'm not on Hulu right now I just I got it yeah you're on your Hulu uh break the entire movie we just kept making uh Elizabeth Holmes Sophie jokes and then I was like these won't play on the Pod so oh well but people will love it I mean at this point the Dropout is finished I don't know on May 15th has to be because it's only a limited run they're not they're not uh they're not just releasing it in one [ __ ] it's it's a week oh it's a weak boat I think it's a I don't know I'm asking you I think Hulu does week by week yeah because hands handmaids was they mostly do week by week but we we kept what a fascinating conversation that none of our listeners care about Donna could have been

51:57 Donna could have been Olivia Newton-John Pfeiffer Denny Nicole Kidman okay uh definitely Michelle Pfeiffer would be a well first of all Greece and Greece too Sandy that's crazy yeah Olivia Newton John I mean oh my God she already can like sing like uh European pop star you know what I mean like she already sing she already has the Apple voice I would like right now if Olivia Newton-John had been in this movie I would be a supporting person I would be supporting the community and the Disco movement right she is truly the only person who I think could could teach me how to love Disco

52:44 um well we'll have to watch Daniel you should listen to her music she had disco music girl yeah but I wanted to like be in a movie about it you know what I mean but yeah is xanna do that that should be on the list that should be on the list it has to be because it was one of the best there you go it was one of the best-selling like albums from a movie like in history despite being a lot of this a full fluff I like a terrible movie yeah and also like it's like very oblique in that it's like popular but very uncool yeah there's something interesting about disco and being pop wildly popular and wildly uncool at the same time it almost feels like maybe we should have left disco to like as after it died it's like just give disco to the game okay first of all I need to address

53:30 something disco didn't die disco was killed disco disco by Ronald Reagan well and Nancy Reagan well throat goat herself oh Rita close your ears I've never heard that term before I'm sure you didn't just make it up but oh my God you know why do you know why I no I know what you're referring to okay this is the story about her but I've never heard I haven't even repeat it for those who have no idea is that Nancy Reagan while she was a star in Hollywood supposedly was very good at performing certain Services men on men

54:16 uh congrats to her it was it was Marlon Brando and and then Rosie this one's weird Rosie could have been Don French who you probably don't know um she's a British actress she's a comedian um she is most famously I think her biggest movie is probably Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban where she replaced the original poor fat lady portrait um so she's the one who's like oh my god um but she was like originally cast in the role and then she can't really sing that well I guess and um just started playing an opera singer

55:01 but they were like oh we're gonna make Rosie super fat and her whole thing is she's gonna eat and she was like I don't know I this isn't for me and then she like later wrote like a memoir and she was like she said she only wanted to do the movie she doesn't like Abba she was like I only want to do it because Meryl Streep was in it which is the same thing Pierce brosn said wow well good for this actress to be like I don't want to do that because I don't like that where you're taking this character yeah she was in the Vicar of Dibley for those who are British TV fans and I guess also absolutely fabulous so she's an Ab Fab Alum that's it that'll get the gays all right that's all the background I have for an hour in let's get into it oh my God we're an hour in

55:50 [Music] thank you [Music] so okay so Mamma Mia um is a movie that I don't think is like a great movie but it is a movie in which I have a lot of fun while watching it and I think that's you know no one gets mad that a Fast and the Furious movie is not Macbeth even though it is um no one gets mad at that and I think

56:37 this movie is like very aware of what it is what it's giving what it's supposed to do and I think that's fine I think the some of the backlash was because at this point Meryl Streep was like oh she's a Prestige actress which is funny because like early 2000s they were like she wasn't A Series of Unfortunate Events so like she was collecting checks she was you know I think that the Delaware's Prada kind of like gave her so much gravitas even though it's like not a serious role but she like plays this character who's very respected and it was a very popular it's a great movie so like I think maybe that put her into the diva category for people and then they were like so therefore all your performances have to

57:23 be like Diva love iconic yeah yeah so I think that we have to start this conversation with this movie about Mamma Mia talking about Meryl Streep because I think she is she is the main character even though this movie starts off and you are led to believe that it is Sophie it is actually I would say Donna is the main character of this film and yeah they both have dramatic turns though I mean they both change so they could both be considered that's true they're both a protagonists um I uh I I think I think Donna gets a a white a a bigger turn like she has a higher high and a lower low

58:08 than like Sophie gets so I think it's a little bit more that's in just in that and that's just subject that's subjective that's yeah Sophie also takes more action because she invites the men to the um to the wedding Sophie is the inciting incident Sophie is the exciting incident and then she also changes her mind about not getting married at all but whether yeah I can't even talk that is so listen this plot is paper thick like yeah tissue paper thing yeah Phoenix one ply right Scott Scott toilet paper yeah um which I mean Donna's real turn is just getting married like it's it's not like Donna's turning he's like settling in substantive and significant in a way that Sophie's isn't like you know

58:54 yeah because they throw in a lot of like complications in the plot just I feel like to mess it up and muddy up the miscommunication between her yeah um her between the mom and the daughter just to kind of like oh will they finally see eye to eye or whatever but I feel like it I don't know it just uh yeah I'm not very it wasn't it wasn't where the what am I trying to say the Final Destination was not like why I was hooked into it I was like I guess like seeing the journey for me I don't know I lost Gene there but I I was just trying to it's such a complicated eternity sophisticated there's a Mamma Mia

59:41 friends the Journey Begins With a single Mamma Mia who Mamma Mia's uh and I took the one last traveled by you know and that made all the difference moment [Laughter] [Music] absolute garbage this is really such garbage oh he's crying in a half hour tell listeners I want to tell listeners that I tried I watched

1:00:28 this movie and for the first like 20 minutes I tried to take notes and then I just gave up and wrote in the Google Doc I cannot bring myself to have opinions about this movie so I'm just gonna react to whatever you do say great because I just like I just like can't it's not a bad movie I would rather watch this than either dear Evan Hansen or Annie anything any 2014. let me be clear but like I just don't I can't engage here's the real question would you watch this or Christmas in the Square Christmas in the Square because it means we're absolutely because you're only obligated to watch it once once a year you know in the season so and the can

1:01:14 Camp of Christmas in the square is more fun because it's so it's so wild the plot is so an angel an angel runs a child off the road to teach Christine baransky a lesson in in Christmas on the Square and then this is so that is the wildest thing that goes on in this one it's yeah it's just like it I wish they made bigger choices about what was happening because it's just so it's so middle of the road it's so incredibly mediocre it is so fatal it's so frustrating that we are not watching Mamma Mia here we go again next week and I understand it okay no I don't think we should because I think there's just been a lot of this is like this would be like our next

1:01:59 thing in a row where we're like watching the same thing yeah that's true it's a messiah but um there are things that I think this movie is does not nail and I want the listeners to know that Adam is here yes to point very assertively right now and he has a point to make I say this summer um I there are things about this movie that I don't think are like I think are the structures a little weird and wonky one of my biggest problems with Mamma Mia and this is like both this and the like musical is the order of the songs this peace Blows Its load so early on like the biggest ABBA songs Mamma Mia and

1:02:48 dancing queen are in the first 20 minutes of the movie and then you just have to like and I don't want to say suffer through other ABBA songs but like B-side ABBA songs finish out the rest of the movie and Mommy here we go again when we finally get to it maybe next Mamma Mia um uh it it like they placed them all in a much better like formatted even an extra way yeah um so that's one of my critiques and then also just like the the plot for Mamma Mia 2 is Solider but also more it's it's more it's just more it's bigger just more of it it's more Mama

1:03:36 more Mia yeah anyway um so that's right uh we've taken a little detour but I would say I really like Meryl Streep's performance in this I genuinely don't have any notes for her performance I think she is like really she is one of the few people that I think can like do really dramatic like genuinely like dramatic dramatic work but also um like give you these like kind of like natural fun and natural and like having a good time things where like we just watched the other day we just watched Kristen Stewart in um Spencer

1:04:21 and let's talk about a movie in which she has Tears In Her Eyes the entire time and I understand that that's what they're going for but it is exhausting watching someone at that level of like on the on the verge of a nervous breakdown I'm like I this is I'm I feel unhinged um and it was nice just like seeing I think everybody in this movie who made it has so much fun making it that that like comes through really well the scenes when she has with Christine Baranski and Julie Walters are just like they seem like they're actually genuinely old friends supposedly everybody was drunk while they were making this movie that's like I could definitely feel that that's why everyone came back to do the sequel because they were like great I get to spend six weeks in Greece and get drunk there are pictures of like their shoe uh their

1:05:08 shoot in this movie it's like Christine branski and Dominic Cooper like drunk as [ __ ] uh circulating in the internet yeah it's very fun um deep dark web um but I I I know it's like crazy I don't know I I don't Molly made a face when I said I had no notes for Meryl Streep's before well does that include Winner Takes it all or am I getting too far ahead of ourselves okay so no we could talk about it so Winner Takes It All Is Merrell's um and the height of the dramatic tension I think this is a good time to play if you are to say like the three biggest

1:05:54 versions of the song The Winner Takes it all it would be obviously the original the Abba version and then um the uh the broad or the West End uh production their like soundtrack or their cast recording and then this movie is cast recording so I'm gonna start with Merrell so that we know what's going on so this is Merrell I don't wanna talk about things we've gone through though it's hurting me now it's history I've played all my cards and that's what you've done too

1:06:43 nothing more to say no more Ace to play The Winner Takes It All ows are standing small beside the victory that's her destiny I was in your arms thinking I belong there I figured it made sense this one is um this is Agatha what is her name agnisa come on agnisa um this is agnitha who is like the main

1:07:29 vocalist and she has this like solo she's great here's her [Music] OES [Music] [Applause] [Music] but when it takes it off

1:08:14 [Music] but then the Stage production this is the like belted blow the roof off the place very 11 o'clock number that you know and love so this is the London cast recording cause it makes me feel sad and I understand you've come to shake my hand I apologize if it makes you feel bad

1:09:02 seeing me so tense no self-confidence but you see The Winner Takes It look at me [Music]

1:09:52 and I think Meryl does a a good job I think she's like very good at getting across like the feeling and the emotion of the song because like I remember playing this after like my breakup in high school and being like she got that um but I do wish it was like bigger especially with these like camera camera sweeps of like the beautiful like uh Grecian Coast behind them and like all this stuff but she's doing it so small that I almost I wish they had like either she had matched the visuals or the visuals had matched her performance yeah because something seems awkward yeah I was gonna say the visual scene like mismatched between her and what they're showing and how they're sweeping and uh I mean obviously when you're on

1:10:40 stage it's just focused on one spot she is parked and barked to sing this one song but like with the with this one the camera was moving so much you could see the waves crashing behind her yeah and it just kind of felt like there were moments where her and Pierce brosn just kind of like were standing there like it didn't feel like it was like heightened enough that like she's trying to get to her like I don't want to talk there were moments when they were just standing there no it was just standing there is how I would describe the entire number I meant just like that that thing of like when clearly your acting partner is like giving like the dramatic monologue and you're just like trying to like look away and like

1:11:25 uh you know like trying to like activate it but like the purpose of this is just being sung at and I felt like never was approximately 10 minutes yeah tired yeah yeah and it's unconscionable this is one of the things where like I appreciate that they have the same director direct this film who directed The like stage version like I think that's cool um but I think this is like one of the times where it like it doesn't like this this should have been more cinematic and like it half is by just using like camera movements but like what they're really doing is just

1:12:11 singing to each other on stage like it's just a filmed Pro Shot version of you know what I mean and don't you also think I mean but she is not a musical performer and I feel like if for example Olivia Newton-John were doing this number it might have been interesting to watch her park and bark it I mean not that you shouldn't also explore other options but I think to me the problem with Meryl Streep in this movie because my job is to come for the dames on this podcast and say you actually did the games of the day is that um she doesn't know how to like make a musical performance interesting to watch she knows how to act in a way that's interesting and she knows how to sing

1:12:57 competently but she doesn't know how to like perform she would do poorly on drag race she would not be a good lipsticker right you know yeah yeah yeah it almost feels though that like they miss an opportunity to use where they're at in regards to like they wait until the last line of the song to show her run up that long ass whatever Cliff that they're having this wedding at that I was like you could have been I don't know like walking and moving you could have paced this video YouTube our street apologists you keep framing it around how the camera moved the director chose you know the key grip really I think craft Services uh that day was just so

1:13:43 bad only the sound mixing were fixed then this whole movie would be good it's she just isn't a great musical performer and that's fine she's great I agree what I'm trying to say is that like the uh like all the other songs like are have movement and like the songs are moving they're in different places blah blah and this one they did try to do the park and bark but I don't think it works because I don't know it's just I think the other thing too is like this is the only ballad in this whole [ __ ] movie and it's given to her and every other song in this movie is like fun and like just go for it or Vibes so like her like you know her and her and Sophie just like reminiscing yeah I guess slipping

1:14:30 through my fingers is also a ballad but that one's mostly this is like that's mostly voice over actually um but um this one I feel like she just yeah she doesn't need it where it needs to be I think the whole thing is kind of messy I don't know why in the musical there she's like in her bedroom he like comes in and they're talking in in like her room or something and she's like folding clothes and then she like sings to him and then halfway through he like storms off and leaves and then she like finishes the rest of the song excuse me I apologize um but and I think that I don't know there's something I I agree that it is Merrell but I I do think like it is

1:15:16 staged raw I think it's wrong the way that this they have structured this song in this movie is like something about it doesn't match for me either it also like slipping through my fingers ends and Sophie's ready for the wedding and then they walk up and then Pierce Brosnan comes out of nowhere and it's like no I should give her away blah blah blah and it's literally like three or four lines before she gets into the song which I think in the stage adaptation there's a little bit more beef in like why Pierce Brosnan why he that character is like trying to assert themselves back into like a fan the family right which is again still kind of loses to like why was Merrell like so offended by

1:16:02 that idea well let's talk about feminism wow finally Adam you so I think that there are things that this movie does really well and I will I will stand up for I really like that this movie this show in general does not deal with um Donna's promiscuity in any negative light there are no jokes there are no like mean jokes about it I think there's like one there's a scene that acknowledges it where she she calls herself a [ __ ] in judgment and then her friends are like whoa you sound like your mom so there's like an acknowledgment that that idea exists in the world but immediately but it's missed by the characters yes that it's like this is what is prescribed to you because of how you may have done it

1:16:49 the conflict of the movie is not about Sophie shaming her mother for not knowing who her fathers are which I think is great she's so excited and the best part in my opinion is that you never find out who the father is like there is not a conclusion to that plot line there's no mystery solved at the end of the day I mean I will say Sophie is upset that she doesn't know her father that's clearly her motivation and so she's and it didn't come quickly to her that because she kept being like I will just know when I see the his face no I don't mean that I mean she literally yells at her mom like it sucks to grow up without a father so like her she's mad at her mother for not letting her know who her father is and not having the experience

1:17:34 of growing up with a father but it's true that it's never turned into like if you were less promiscuous than I would know it feels like it feels like it's more about Donna being too independent to like right pursue the answer and find out who Sophie's father is so that Sophie could know could know him yeah it's not about like how could you be in a situation where there's three possibilities as to the answer to this question is not like what's upsetting but it is a little like nuclear family endorsing you know what I mean of like the idea of like I am missing something I'm missing something with my father yeah so that's where I think like the second wave feminism comes in a bit

1:18:21 just in like and I feel weird talking about this as a guy but no going to talk about it Molly I don't know if you know this but as a woman uh no so um they're just like there are things where it feels like Meryl is very like um big girl boss energy um and that's kind of like oh it's right business you know runs the local economy of the town uh uh well well um I don't know there's something about it I can't even I don't even know if I'm like well versed enough in like the waves of feminism to like put accurately put my finger yeah it's a second wave or definitely not in the same category but

1:19:07 express your thought and then maybe we can label it afterwards now I'm gonna erase the whole segment um now we won't talk about feminism corrected me well I just I I don't want to say anything wrong I don't understand as a man I'm trying can't you see that I just want to not be canceled for one episode I expect a bunch of gay people that I don't like Lady Gaga Adam neither of us is getting out of this alive um I don't know there I don't it just I don't know there just is something about it that

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