Matan Confronts John Kiriakou For Secretly Working For Israel

0:00 Hello everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. For today's guest, we have John Kuraku. Welcome in. For today's co-host, we have Mike. Welcome in, Mike. So, please introduce yourself in case anybody doesn't know you and all that one. >> Sure. I'm John Kuryaku, former CIA counterterrorism officer, former chief investigator on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and uh convicted criminal. >> Convicted criminal. Can you go into that a little bit? >> Sure. I uh I was convicted of violating the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 after I blew the whistle on the CIA's Torture Program. They came down on me like a ton of bricks. I was utterly unapologetic. >> Didn't anybody ever teach you that snitches get stitches?

0:46 >> Well, that was the thing is I had to be the one giving the stitches when I got there. >> Why is that? I thought you were torturing people. >> No, I was the good guy. I didn't torture anybody. >> But the terrorists didn't need to be tortured. H. You know, sometimes you have to look past that kind of thing. >> What? Why? >> Because we got to be the good guys, right? We got to be a country of laws. We have to be the good. We're supposed to be this shining. >> But what if we make a law that allows it? >> Allows to torture them. >> That's different. If you want to torture people, >> I'm going to disagree with you, but you got to change the law and then >> So, you're against the idea of torture? >> I'm against the idea of torture. >> What if it's like a loud dog? Well, I did try to kill a chicken one time because it wouldn't stop crowing early in the morning. >> Yeah. I mean, but a chicken is food. A

1:32 dog is domesticated, but it still upsets me sometimes. And it's the neighbor's dog. And I tried to feed the dog poison, but it did nothing to him. >> Oh, yeah. No, that's that's that's too much. Thank you. Oh, that Italian brain rot. Thank you. >> Can you see who you give me >> stuff? I give you. >> I'm hoping for that for that wooden guy. >> The You don't have the wooden guy? >> No. >> I like the brain. The brain is Oh, no. You don't get the brain. It's got I see. No, I think I'd rather have the shark. >> Open it up. >> You're so excited. You're almost losing it. >> Oh. Oh, yes. >> Yep. >> There it is. >> I always get what I want with these things. >> That's pretty.

2:17 >> I got the toilet last time and now I got the wooden brick guy. >> What about the banana? You have the banana. Oh, he's nothing compared to the wooden brick. >> Yes. >> I kind of like the ogre. The ogre's a good one. >> I don't even know his name. I know this one's name. >> Very good. >> Made in Ireland of all places. >> I doubt it. >> Can you tell me the most confidential secret you learned while working at the CIA? You're not allowed to tell anybody. >> You know, people ask me on Cameo all the time to tell them the deepest, darkest secret. I can't. Prison was not as hard as I thought it would be, but it's not some place I want to go back. >> So, you would go to jail again if you did something like that? >> Oh, yes, sir. >> Okay. So, maybe you tell me one and then you can try to get out of it again by telling a funny story afterwards.

3:04 >> I could I could, but I won't. >> Why? >> I could tell you lots of funny stories. I could tell you about this guy I was sitting next to when we were writing papers for the president. I was working on an Iraq political paper. He was working on an Iraq military paper and I'm typing away. He's sitting next to me. He's typing away. And then he says, "John." I turn. I look and he goes, "I think I'm having a heart attack." And he falls off his chair. I start to panic. I call 911. I run and tell my boss Jeff's having a heart attack. The paramedics come. They pick him up. They put him on a gurnie. They strap him down to the gurnie so he doesn't have like a seizure and fall off. And then he blows this ridiculous fart. >> Seriously. >> Is that an indication of death? It was an indication that it was just a fart

3:49 and then he got off the gurnie and started typing the paper again. >> Then you would have had less competition. >> Nah, cuz we were like apples and oranges. >> I didn't I I wasn't a friend of the guy or anything, but I'm not going to begrudge him life. >> No, no, not begrudge him life, but you wanted to wipe out the competition. >> No, I Well, yeah, I guess we were competing. >> How would you feel if you didn't have breakfast this morning? Yeah, I didn't have breakfast, but I did feel like I got ripped off on the size of my coffee. >> But how would you feel if you didn't? >> I did have a large mocha that was like 12 o. I said, "Buddy, I ordered a large mocha." The guy's like, "That is the large." I said, "What planet do you live on?" Okay, I think you're back to failing the test. >> Uhoh. Cuz you're answering with a real a

4:37 real answer. I think I think you failed it. But it's okay. I I was just testing if you knew how to do a hypothetical and it didn't. >> Oh, sorry. Well, see, but my reputation is as a trutht teller, so I got to tell you the truth. >> Well, I think you're telling me facts. Maybe I guess it would be the truth, but I think you're giving your own take on it that I disagree with about torturing people. >> Okay, that that's cool. That's cool. That's cool. You know, I I worked with torture torturers and most of them were, you know, normally when they're not torturing people, they're decent guys. Our kids played together. Our wives were friends. >> Your kids and the guy was getting tortured kids. >> Unfortunately, no. Uh >> they tortured his kids, too. >> Well, that's kind of a hypothetical, but uh not in my experience. I'll say it

5:22 that way. Not >> Well, really, it actually isn't a hypothetical at all. >> Well, you know, there were rumors that it either did or didn't. Yeah. >> Well, there were rumors that the CIA tortured the kids of Khalishik Muhammad. >> That would be pretty cool, too, because it's like who really in America get to torture kids? It's like a one ofone experience. Maybe I would get in on that. >> That's That's not a world I'd want to live in. >> But you live in it. It seems like. >> I hope not. >> Are you going to kill yourself? >> Not myself. >> So it seems like you want to live in this world. >> Yeah. I I'd like to >> You see that trick there? That violence >> you That was very That was very clever. That was very clever. Yes. Um I might kill somebody else but not myself. >> Is that a threat of violence? >> To the president? >> No. Oh, no. No. No. No. No. No. Absolutely not.

6:08 >> That's what it sounded like. It's where you kill the president. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, not at all. No. >> That's very illegal. >> You know, I was at that uh dinner. >> Which one? With Kanye, Nick Fuentes and Trump? >> No. The White House correspondents dinner and I'm eating a salad. >> The same one. >> Nick Fuentes wasn't there. >> Him and Kanye and Trump. >> Kanye? I didn't see Kanye at that dinner. >> Oh, so maybe this was a different one, I guess. Go ahead. Sorry. I'm eating a salad. And I said to my my date, "That can't possibly have been a gunshot, right?" And she's like, "No, no." And then we just kept eating. And then everybody started diving below the tables. >> Oh, the one from a couple weeks ago. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. That wasn't the one. I'm talking about the one in Mara Lago. Like >> Oh, the famous one where Kanye and Nick

6:53 Fuentes went. No, I went to I went to Mara Lago one time. I will admit to you it was the best egg salad I've ever had in my life, but that was pretty much the extent of it. How would you sum up your experience working for the MASSAD? >> My experience with the MSAD has been that they probably wish they were working for me. Oh, >> I mean the CIA, sorry. >> Uh, one in the same >> pretty much. >> How would you sum up that experience? >> Uh, you know, it was great until I realized what the heck was actually going on. But I did enjoy the travel. I went to 72 countries with the CIA. >> Which was the worst one? Which had the worst, most despicable, ugly people? >> See, I'm going to get death threats for answering you truthfully. >> Probably if you answer it correctly,

7:40 these people won't even have a phone to look at. >> I hated India. >> I just hated it. If you want to take a [ __ ] >> unfortunately, they have phones. That's for sure. >> You You want to take a [ __ ] you're walking down the street and people just pull down their pants and take a [ __ ] right there on the street and then pull up their pants and walk away. >> You saw that happen every day. Every single day. I've been in poorer countries that they didn't do that >> and I I say that that's a thing and then people call me a racist. >> No, it's a thing >> and I am using it to racially insult Indian-Americans who don't do that sort of thing but their their family does and it's in their blood to do it. I'll tell you another thing I saw in India that I hated is >> the people their color >> standing no standing right outside the

8:26 the nice hotels were all these these dudes wearing dresses and sorry >> you say nice hotel in India >> yeah like the Marriott and the West and there are all these dudes wearing dresses and I said to one of my Indian friends I said what's with all these dudes wearing sarries and dresses and he said oh yeah they're they're criminals what they do is they come on weekends and they disrupt people's weddings they'll go in and like smash the wedding cake and throw chairs around and then you have to pay them to leave. That's how they make their living. >> What a low level of like extortion type thing. >> Yeah, it's bad. >> It's like the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Then why are they wearing dresses? I didn't really get that part. >> I don't know. It's just part of the stick, I guess. >> So maybe they actually have some sort of artistic sense in it. >> I suppose you could.

9:11 >> They're not just stupid gangsters, >> right? You could look at it artistically. Why did you stop that man from burning himself alive? He may have been cold and it would have heated everyone up. >> No. When I got there, he was just a black spot on the ground. >> Are we talking about the same thing? >> When the guy was p pouring the oil on himself. He was about to light himself on fire. >> No, >> I saw you in the video. You're in the background. >> Oh, that guy. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. I did stop him from setting himself on fire. >> Why? because we were all standing there agreeing with each other. It was this this was in front of the Justice Department a couple of years ago. It was it was a protest in support of Julian Assange and Wikileaks. And this [ __ ]

9:57 guy goes right up to the podium where we're speaking and he takes all of his clothes off. So, he's butt naked and then he squirts lighter fluid all over himself and he pulls out a lighter out of his pants pocket that he had on the ground. and a buddy of mine. >> Maybe he was trying to let all the wildling tribes know that it's time to attack the wall. >> Maybe maybe the poor guy was just having a mental breakdown. >> Maybe. Maybe he was cold also. >> It could have been. So >> although it was a pretty comfortable day that day, I remember it was a it was a warm day in October. Yeah. Yeah. And in fact, there was a woman there who was an attorney and she ran up to the cops when the cops arrested him and she said, "I'm an attorney. He's

10:43 clearly mentally ill. Don't hurt him." >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. And instead of taking him to the jail, they took him to the hospital. Which was kind of nice. >> Why would they take him to the hospital? You guys stopped him. Or the mental hospital. >> Mental hospital. >> But he didn't even do anything wrong. >> No, that's why they didn't take him to jail. He didn't do anything wrong. >> No. Why would they take him to the mental hospital? He's clearly stable. >> Yeah. Yeah. Maybe for today's Washington. Would you put a rooster in your room to wake you up when it's time? >> No, cuz the roosters don't stop from like 3:00 in the morning. I live next door to this rooster in in Athens. I I wanted to go out and kill it. And the only reason I didn't is cuz my wife said she would leave me if I did. >> If you killed the rooster? >> Yeah. >> So, what did you do? You killed it? >> No. I just >> Are you still with your wife? >> I just suffered. No way. >> So then So then >> Yeah. I kind of chose the rooster over

11:28 over her. >> Yeah. I mean, you should have just expedited it then and killed the rooster. And then you wouldn't have had to go through whatever divorce you did. >> I probably still would have had to go through >> Why didn't you just kill your wife? >> Believe me, it >> didn't you have like immunity or something? >> That is a That is an issue that Yeah. could have been debated, >> right? >> See, I come up with all these great ideas that nobody ever takes advantage of. Although you may have been discontinued from the CIA, you would have come up with such a genius idea, you would have killed your wife and you wouldn't have had to go to jail. Plus a rooster. >> Plus the rooster. Yeah. >> Do you see how any [ __ ] be walking around with the shop >> all the time? >> Why not? >> You got to protect yourself. The next guy's not going to protect you.

12:15 >> Well, the [ __ ] guy got flies in his ear. >> And well, he's going to have to deal with the nine I had in a tear away fanny pack on my waist and the 38 on my ankle. And just in case things turn to [ __ ] I had a buck knife in my back pocket. >> You one of those Jewish [ __ ] with a hat? >> I didn't run into them overseas. I only see them in New York. >> Oh, the [ __ ] guys. They [ __ ] lawyers and [ __ ] [ __ ] god. You never get a hold of them. They're always [ __ ] buildings and they don't even be doing that with you. You don't even know how to stop them. >> Seriously, crazy [ __ ] Hey guys, sorry for the interruption. Have to let you know that today's episode is sponsored by Chubbies. If you're sick of your usual shorts or swimwear, then Chubbies is probably perfect for you. Chubbies is also celebrating its 15th anniversary and to celebrate they're bringing back

13:00 their original shorts. I personally been wearing Chubbies a ton recently and I can tell you from my own personal experience that it's been great. The shorts on the first wear feel like I've already been wearing them for ages and they fit great. That's partly also because of the four-way stretch fabric that they use. One of the best things about Chubbies is the quality of the shorts and especially the trunks. They're extremely soft, extremely flexible, and they're also extremely quick drying as well. For a limited time, Chubbies is offering listeners of the show 20% off with my code maton. M A T an at chubbyshorts.com. That's code maton. m a tan to get 20% off for a limited time at chubbyshorts.com. C hu bbie s o rts.com. Thank you to

13:46 Chubbies for sponsoring today's episode. And if you buy something there, let them know I sent you as it will help the show. >> Do you want to maybe switch chairs? >> Yeah. >> So you can be closer to the mic. >> Okay. >> And hold that up for the rest of the show. >> Okay. Were you considered a snitch in prison? >> No. Thank God. >> No. >> I got a story there. >> Okay. The New York Times the Sunday before I went to prison. I went to prison on a Thursday. the New York Times front page saying he's going to this prison in Pennsylvania. There was a guy there, an Italian guy who became my best friend. >> Yeah. >> And he he took it upon himself to go to every

14:32 single one of the Italians and tell them, "Listen, there's a CIA guy coming on Thursday. He's not an FBI. FBI is rats and snitches. CIA protected us from the Muslims." He said, >> "Okay." >> And he said, >> "You actually protected the Muslims." >> Well, the Muslims thought I protected the Muslims. The Nation of Islam guys. The Nation of the Nation of Islam guys. >> What are you laughing at? >> I I was thinking of these Nation of Islam guys. Big ripped guys. One of them came into my room the first day there and he handed me a newspaper that had a >> He asked you to read it for him. >> Well, the poor guy. No, he had read it, but he said >> he could read. >> Reverend, he could quite quite well. The He said, "Reverend Farrakhan called me

15:19 the hero of the Muslim people, and so I wasn't going to have any trouble with them." So, I didn't. They were good. I mean, they said that I I put my hand out to shake his hand, and he says, "I don't shake hands with the white devil." But that I said, "That's cool." >> You're talking to what? An Israelite? >> Uh, I don't know what he was. >> Why are there more Israelites in the CIA? Is it because they're all >> There are more Mormons in the CIA cuz they speak funky languages. Oh [ __ ] Oh, it's not good. This is not good.

16:05 But I think you're doing it on his nose. It's got to go. It's got to go down his throat. >> Okay. His mouth is right here. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It's not See what I mean? It's not good. >> I need to get more water. I think the problem. >> It's not good. I I wondered what the hell you were doing. do anything wrong. I'm just torturing you because >> that Well, that's the kind of the the idea. >> You just take random people and do it to

16:52 >> Yeah. See, it's not good. >> We can get more going later. >> Yeah, you need like gallon jugs, >> you know. Actually, you should try. I'm going to get >> Oh, yeah. Thanks. >> It'll bring you back. We we waterboarded each other in pra in uh in training practice. It was not uh not pleasant. Yeah. See, he he got it all wrong, though. He's got to be on a He's got to be on a board. He's got to be on a board. That's why they call it the water board. And his feet have to be higher than his head. And this towel is too thick. It holds too much liquid. You need like a like a pillow case or or burlap.

17:39 >> This is better. >> Yeah, that works. But he's got to be laying almost flat. >> Okay, we can do that as well. >> Hold on to that for now. >> Okay. lay flat. I'm going to waterboard you if you don't lay flat. Well, I'm going to waterboard you anyways, but >> see now try it out, John. >> Okay, here you go. Where's his mouth? There's his mouth.

18:25 See, that's why you need the gallon jug >> to keep going while they start coughing. >> This isn't going to do anything. >> You're right. Get out of here. >> Get out of here. >> You didn't tie him up tight enough. >> What a waste of time. I didn't even learn anything. >> No, see, that's kind of the conclusion. It's a waste of time. >> He's good. He needs to convulse first. Maybe I can get him a concussion as well. >> We did that a lot. >> So, what's the next best thing I should use on him?

19:10 >> Well, there are two next best things. >> Okay. >> The first one is the cold cell. You strip him naked. You chain him to an eyebolt in the ceiling. You you chill the cell to 50° F. And every hour you throw a bucket of ice water on him. >> The second thing is >> I don't have access to that though, >> right? >> I need something I can do like water boarding. It's simple. >> Sleep deprivation that takes a lot a lot longer. >> But I can do that. >> You need to go, you know, 8, nine days without sleep. Then he goes into organ failure. >> I mean, you might as well just kill the guy at that point. >> Yeah. I mean, that's kind of the end result half the time. >> Yeah, but he's a terrorist, isn't he? I don't know. I haven't met him. >> Just look at his face.

19:56 >> He looks more like a crazy person than a terrorist. >> He's this one in the same. >> Yeah, >> these homeless people. Jesus Christ. Why didn't the CIA ever consider playing Soulja Boy to torture people? >> You know, they did that all through the Vietnam War. >> Oh, really? >> Oh my god. Yes. >> I don't think Soulja Boy was around during the Vietnam War, was he? Oh, I thought you meant colloquially soldier boy. I don't know. I don't know. >> No, no. Soulja Boy. >> Yeah. Oh, Soulja Boy. >> Yeah. Yeah. Soulja Boy. >> Yeah. >> Like kind of like how I was talking a minute ago. >> Yeah. Soldier boy. >> Yeah. They could be like >> not to be confused with Soulja Boy. >> Who's that? >> He's Nigerian. >> Isn't that also Soulja Boy? >> Oh, is he Nigerian, too?

20:42 >> You can't. I mean, >> I don't know. What do I know? I'm too old for this kind of thing. That's not something you guys ever tried. I feel like it would be more effective than all of the other ones. >> No, what what what they did was they played the BeeGees on loop or the Spongebob Squarepants theme song. >> So, they actually did something similar to this. >> Yeah. >> But why Spongebob? I love that song. >> I do too. But after you hear it 10,000 times, you start >> then you will know all the lyrics. >> Yeah. >> So, actually, >> and if it's a good song, if it's like Bohemian Rap City or something, okay, I could sing that 10,000 times. >> Yeah. So, I don't get the why this is torture. >> Yeah, >> I would much rather waterboard some guy. Why does the man on the bus always ask for three different coins? One metal, one purple, and one green. He says if I

21:29 bring him the metal one, the purple one doesn't come because the green one absorbed it. He tells me the earth is made of metal, purple, and green coins. Is he right? And should I give him the metal, purple, and green coins? That sounds like about half the emails that I get every day. >> Yeah. But this one's real, unlike all those other ones. >> Yeah, that one I don't know. But I wouldn't be surprised if that was communicated to you through a chip in your brain or a filling in your tooth. >> Is that something somebody told you before? >> Every single day. >> I think maybe this is some MK Ultra stuff. >> Stranger things have happened. >> And I would like to get behind that. Is that something they're still doing? >> That's

22:15 the toughest question that you've asked me so far. >> Oh, really? >> They would say no. I would say it's impossible to know. Um, >> but you might actually know the answer. >> No, I wish I did. I'd blurt it out. >> So, it seems like the answer from you is yes. I mean >> I mean, if I knew, I'd say yes, and I would dare them to do something about it. >> Why? >> Because then they'd have to admit that it was true. >> Oh, really? So, you would do another whistleblow on that level? I would. >> So why don't you tell me one of those secrets like I asked from earlier? >> Because that stuff is like sources and methods and you know stuff that we need to keep secret to try to keep the country safe and >> but if you say something that can help not keep the country safe then maybe and it's a big if but it's a good one if it

23:01 can lead to the destruction of Israel. >> Yeah. It's that's not not for me. >> You don't want to be responsible for that? I do not. Nah, >> you're missing out. >> Yeah, maybe, but uh that's not for me. >> Is it true that you have to be at least 51% Jewish to be in the CIA? >> I had not heard that. >> Are you 51% Jewish? >> I am not. I'm like 2% Jewish according to 23 and me. >> It's always a trick though. It's like, are you Jewish? Just a little bit. And it's always more than they say. I will tell you a true story. My mother's maiden name was Chrysopoulos. When a Greek name ends in, that just means you're from the Pelpeneisian Peninsula.

23:46 But the first part of the name, it means gold. And I said to my mom one time, "Your name doesn't make any sense to me." And she said, "What do you mean?" And I said, "Gold?" I said, "Gold? It uh" She says, "Uh, probably somebody in our family was a was a jeweler." And I said, "No, we were farmers for 2,000 years. I think it's more probably like Goldman or Goldberg or Goldstein." >> Goldberg. >> Yeah. >> Spear. >> He said, "I don't even know." >> Oh, he had a great spear. >> And so I did a 23 in me and it said yes. Jewish on my mother's father's side from Lithuania, no less. You see what I'm saying? It's always it's like you your mother's maiden name

24:33 is Goldberg. You see what I mean? >> That's just life. >> But let's assume that's not true. Or if it was, you can't tell me. It's one of those secrets. What how many Jews did you see in the CIA? A lot of them. >> I never really paid attention to tell you the truth. >> It's right out in the open with them sometimes. >> I don't know. >> You could look at me and know that I'm not Jewish. You know what I mean? I I don't actually. >> No, I feel pretty insulted right now. >> Sorry, I didn't mean to rain on on the parade. >> In what year did you end up leaving the CIA? >> 2004. >> So, you were in the CIA during 9/11? >> Oh, yeah. >> Do you have anything you can tell us about that? >> Probably a lot I can tell you about that. >> Anything like uh new any new info?

25:20 >> No, it's pretty much all out there. >> Really? >> Pretty much. >> Do you believe it was an inside job? >> No. >> No, >> I don't. It was a terrorist attack from al-Qaeda. >> Yes. >> No. Jewish. >> No. But >> I spoke to Andrew Bamante, the leader of the CIA, former leader. >> Oh, yes. And he told me that it was. >> Yeah. >> Uh, no. I think that the Israelis knew it was coming and didn't warn us >> because they knew that if we were attacked, we would end up doing what they wanted and just go around the world killing Muslims, which is exactly what happened. When we captured Abubeta, we also captured his diary. And in his diary, he had the personal cell phone numbers of three Saudi princes. So we went to the Saudis very angrily and said, "You better do something about this." And the next thing you know, one prince dies in a onecar accident on the

26:07 Riad to Jedha Highway. One prince unfortunate. >> Yeah. Well, one one prince goes in for stomach surgery and dies on the operating table. And one prince goes into the desert to go camping and dies of thirst. >> That makes sense. He's in the desert. Yeah, but he's he camps in the desert all the time. You'd think he would take a bottle of water. >> Maybe he ran out. He was trying to waterboard somebody. He wasted all of it. >> Drink your own piss then and save yourself. Get in the car. >> Does that work? >> Drive to a 7-Eleven. >> I thought it was like drinking salt water. >> I don't know. I've never tried it. It's like drinking ammonia. It seems like to me. >> Hey guys, sorry for the interruption. I have to let you know that today's episode is sponsored by Prize Picks. The NBA regular season is over and the playoffs are here, so there's no better time to cash in than now. Prize Pix is

26:52 now also a preferred partner of the NBA and it's available in all 50 states including California, Texas, Georgia, and all of the other ones. On Prize Pix, you get to choose how you play. If you want flexibility, then you can choose to do a flex play, meaning that you can get paid out even if one of your picks misses. And if you want the biggest payouts, then you can go for the power play. My buddy Mike has been using Price Picks a lot recently, and he's been loving it. He especially likes one of their new features, which is the early payouts. Meaning that if your player gets off to a hot start, you can cash out if your pick hits before the game even ends. Download the Prize Peaks app today and use my code maton. M A T an $50 for free in lineups after playing just your first $5 lineup. That's my code maton. M A T an $50 for free in lineups after playing just your first $5

27:39 lineup on the Prize Peaks app. Thank you to Prize Peaks for sponsoring today's episode. Prize picks a preferred partner of the NBA. Trump recently said, "I believe I'm going to hell and the only way for me to get into heaven is by destroying 13 more elementary schools in Iran." Is he correct? >> Uh, no. >> Why? >> Uh, yeah. We we shouldn't be we shouldn't be in the business of attacking elementary schools anywhere. I agree with that, but he needs to do it to go to heaven. >> No, I think he needs to respect international human rights to go to heaven. Remember, he's supposed to be the peace president. He's going to win the Nobel Peace Prize. He's making peace all over the world. So,

28:25 >> yeah, he wanted he forced that girl into giving it to him. Do you see that? >> Yeah. >> So, he kind of won it because he didn't kill her or anything. He kind of got it through a peaceful method. >> He just took it. She offered it up. She gave it to him. >> What a nice lady. And you've met him? >> Yeah, I've met him. >> How was that experience? >> He honestly he was lovely. >> You want him to give you your pension back? >> I hope he does. I'm waiting. Let's see. >> How much do you not get from that? >> Uh altogether it was $700,000. >> Will you get all of it back? >> I would get all of it back. >> Yeah. >> In in retro whatever it's called. >> Yeah. >> Retroactively. >> And then how much do you get a year? What is it like 50? >> Oh, it's not it's not a ton. Yeah, it's just under $50,000. >> Is that a That's less than you made when

29:11 you worked there, right? >> Oh, yeah. Way less. Yeah. >> How much did you make? What's the pay? >> I think when I left I was making not a ton. I was making maybe 110 112. But in in 2004, that was good money. >> It seems like a stressful job for 100 grand a year. >> Yeah. But you don't do it for the money. You do it because you're a patriot >> or to torture people. >> There are unfortunately some people who do it for that reason. Yes. You say unfortunately I say that it's they're destroying terrorism. >> No, they're not. >> Has there been any more terrorism since then? >> Oh, lots. Yes, lots. >> I disagree with that. >> Okay. Tell ISIS. >> No, they've been defeated. >> Oh, have they? >> Yes. >> I missed that. >> They've all been defeated by the Great

29:56 White Hope. >> Yes. >> Do you like white boys in the >> No, I've never uh never given it a try. >> That's not my question. That's from Bird B U R Ter. >> Oh, okay. >> That's what his name stands for. It's a weird question, but >> what? >> Oh, I got >> some gay thing reference. I don't know. It's disgusting. Really? >> Yeah. Yeah. It's not for me. >> No, you don't. >> No. >> Now, I can't really relate to him, but I guess I'll try to continue this conversation or this questionnaire on his behalf. I guess the followup would be why. Uh yeah, it's just it doesn't do do anything for me. >> Could you use MK Ultra to turn somebody into a gay? >> I mean, if MK Ultra had worked out the

30:42 way they wanted to work it to work out, you can turn him into anything. You can turn him into an assassin. That was the idea. >> What about what about a gay? >> Probably. >> And you could hypothetically make somebody not gay anymore? Geez, I have no idea >> if that's true. I feel like maybe we need to get behind this. Start a GoFundMe or something. >> Well, I mean, if we already have hypnosis, isn't that the same thing? You hypnotize someone so they stop they stop smoking. You hypnotize someone so they remember something. >> Doesn't usually work, though. >> Yeah. No, I've seen it work. >> You've seen it work. >> I worked with a hypnotist while I was on

31:28 an operation. Maybe we're talking about different levels of one, but I've >> maybe >> I've seen some and they seem to be liars. >> Oh, I think most of them are probably frauds, but the one that I worked with, it was the real deal. >> See, but when they when it works, it's only for a limited period, though. >> Yes. Yes. >> With MK Ultra, you could hypothetically get somebody forever. >> Yeah, but then you're going to have them jump off the roof of a hotel or hang themselves from a tree and all kinds. You tell him not to do that. >> I don't know, man. It didn't work out in practice. >> Why not? >> I don't know. It just didn't work. >> Maybe it did, actually. That's why Oh, >> nah. We started in 1952, ended in 1975,

32:13 and had nothing legit to show for it. >> Yeah, there's actually way more gay people nowadays than before. So, there's way more autistic people now than there were before, too. Thought it really must have failed. >> Something's going on. The >> whole operation like was a big spit in our face. >> Something Something's going on. >> Can you tell me about that? Some secrets. >> I don't know about it. That was way before my time. >> You weren't born then. You weren't in the CIA in the >> I wasn't in the CIA. No. No. I was I was born in 1964, so I missed it. >> So if you were like 9 years old though, you could have been around in there. I guess I could have been in those circles if I was not. >> Maybe they did it to you as a kid. >> Well, have you heard the the joke that

32:59 we're all trained to tell? >> No. >> Yeah, they train us to tell this one joke. This joke is I'm driving around MLAN, Virginia by the CIA. And I see a sign. It's on the It's on a telephone pole. It says talking dog and it for sale. It has an address. So, I go over to the address cuz I wasn't in a hurry. And I knock on the door and I said to the guy, "You got a talking dog for sale?" The guy says, "Yeah." I said, "Can I see it?" He says, "It's around the back." So, I go around the back and there's a dog sitting there. It's a mut. And I said, "Hello." And the dog looks at me. You know how dogs do their head like that. And he goes, "Hello?" I said, "Oh my god, you do talk." And he said, "Yeah, that's how I got a job at the CIA." I said, "I I work at the CIA." He said, "Yeah, I was in counterterrorism."

33:45 I said, "I'm in counterterrorism." "What did you do in counterterrorism?" He said, "Well, because I talked, they sent me on to Bin Laden's compound and I listened to what Bin Laden was saying and I come out and I tell them and that went so well. I went I went to Kim Jong-un and I listened to what he was saying and I came out and told them. And then finally they sent me to the Kremlin. I listened to what Putin's saying and I came back and I told them. I said, "That's incredible. You're an American hero." I said, "I'm going to buy you." So I said to the guy, "How much you want for this dog?" He goes, "20 bucks." I said, "Why so cheap?" He said, "That damn dog's a liar. He didn't do any of that stuff." What's a joke? I don't get it. See, my sister reacted the same way. I always thought it was [ __ ] hilarious.

34:30 >> If I saw a talking dog, I'd I'd [ __ ] get ready to battle. >> But he's just laying there. He's not threatening you in any way. >> He's threatening me by being a dog that's talking to me. >> I'm either crazy and I need to kill this dog because I'm crazy. >> He's going to rat you out on something. >> Well, I mean, if what he's saying is true, then yes. Listen to what the dog just told you. >> But the guy said the dog made it all up. It was just all made up. That's why it was only $20. >> But this guy is interacting with you as if the dog was actually talking. >> Yeah, the dog. >> He's just a liar dog. >> He's a liar. >> But the dog is talking. >> Yeah, he's just lying. >> Then the dog needs to be eliminated. I mean, this is beyond even a talking dog. This is a sophisticated, conscious dog that's lying to you, so you buy him.

35:16 >> Yes. Are you sure it's not just like a >> could have been a Wait a minute. I think we're not supposed to say anymore. >> I mean, who are you going to offend me? What are they going to do to you? >> Yeah. >> I'm going to bite your leg freely like a dog. >> Pretty much it. I don't even think we have [ __ ] throwing contests in bars anymore. >> I I wish they were still like those clowns who used to try to ride lions, which was really just dogs that they would put big ears on. right >> now. These guys, it's always, you have to [ __ ] pay them $500 an hour to debate a clown and a Domino's employee and Steiny, another clown. It's getting ridiculous. >> You know what I'm talking about. >> I can't disagree. >> $500 an hour for a That's ridiculous.

36:03 >> Of course, you don't want to begrudge the living. The guy's got to make a living. And you know, >> he needs half of a normal living. >> Whatever the whatever the market will bear, that's the price. That's the one thing that I don't agree with capitalism on. >> Huh? >> Think about that. >> I think I do agree with capitalism on that. >> That there can be with a lot of money. >> Sure, why not? >> Makes us look like an underdeveloped [ __ ] country. >> I'm not even sure the last time I saw a Why did the CIA create? Is it to distract everybody by making them laugh too much? >> That could be it. >> Yeah, >> it could be so that they can sneak into places and

36:49 not be noticed. >> You know what I noticed though? >> They're all very stupid. >> No. >> Yes, they are. >> I worked for a god. >> She was my first office director at the CIA. She was brilliant in the CI and she was brilliant. >> I thought we were the most I thought we were the best country. We, you know, we are the best country. >> Imagine going to Russia and telling them that there's a in the in their whatever. >> I bet there is. >> They'd probably rip your neck off if you insinuated it. >> There's got to be one. There's got to be. >> No. Yeah. Now I think I'm against capitalism. I think I've I've shifted. >> Now I'm I'm just now getting my first taste of capitalism. I'm liking it pretty pretty well. >> Just recently, you've been making a lot

37:35 more money. >> Finally. What about the money you were paid by the Russian state media? >> Yes. They don't pay very much. >> No. Did you have to tell them any of the CIA secrets or you just had to? >> Nope. They never asked. They said they said, "Here's a microphone. We give you a radio show. Knock yourself out." >> And what did you talk about usually on the show? >> Whatever happened to be in the news that day? >> Oh, really? >> Did you have to take Russian positions on it? >> Nope. >> Were you working for them when the Ukraine war started? >> Uh, yes. >> And what's your position on that? The very first thing I said on my radio show that day was, "I unreservedly condemn the Russian invasion of Ukraine and I call on Russian troops to withdraw immediately." >> And then you were fired. >> No. It was part of my contract that I could say anything I wanted and

38:20 criticize anybody I wanted. >> What about Log? >> I don't know who that is. >> He's my next guest in five minutes. >> Are you allowed to criticize him? >> Of course. I don't I criticize everybody because I got nothing to lose. >> So, can you criticize him? >> Why not? >> Go ahead. >> Where is he? >> He's He's a little bit late. He's supposed to be here 5 minutes ago. He's 5 minutes away, though. >> Okay. >> So, give him some crit criticism, >> but I don't know anything about him. I can't even mock his physical appearance. >> I'll show you a photo of him and you will. >> Oh, yeah. He's that that's one ugly [ __ ] guy. Yeah. >> You see what I said? >> Yeah. Yeah. That's not Yeah. >> He's here in five minutes, by the way. >> He makes money with that neck.

39:06 >> I doubt it. >> I doubt it, too. >> Does he look like he has a lot of money? >> No. Although his lick here tattoo probably cost what? 150 bucks. >> I feel like that's probably like a sponsorship he did. >> Ah, I didn't even think of that. It probably is. >> They paid him with that tattoo. >> Yeah. Crows.