Perspective: PM Modi embarks on an eight-day, five-nation tour | 02 July, 2025

0:13 namaskar viewers. Hello and welcome to Sunset TV. I'm Tina Ja. You're watching Perspective. Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Wednesday embarked on an 8-day diplomatic tour covering five nations across Africa, Latin America, and the Caribbean. Starting from Ghana, the prime minister will head to the Caribbean nation of Trinidad and Tobago and then to Argentina from where he'll travel to Brazil to attend the 17th BRICS 2025 summit and then finally to Namibia for the last leg of the tour. This will mark the longest diplomatic visit by the prime minister in nearly 10 years. The last five nation tour that Prime Minister Modi undertook was in 2016 when he visited the United States, Mexico, Switzerland, Afghanistan and Qatar. In his departure statement, the

1:00 Prime Minister said that this tour will reinforce India's partnerships across the global south, enhance its footprint on multilateral platforms, and foster ties across both sides of the Atlantic. The prime minister also shared his schedule from the 2nd July to the 9th of July. His two-day visit to Ghana comes at the invitation of President John Ramani Muhammad. This also happens to be Prime Minister's first visit to Ghana since assuming office in 2014. Furthermore, this visit also marks the first by an Indian prime minister in 30 years. In addition to bilateral exchanges, the prime minister will back the creation of a vaccine hub and also address the Parliament of Ghana. On the 3rd and 4th of July, the prime minister will be in the Republic of

1:45 Trinidad and Tobago, a country with which India shares deeprooted historical, cultural, and people-to-people connect. Indians first arrived in this country 180 years ago. So this visit of the prime minister to the country will mark the first visit by an Indian prime minister in 25 years. In the third stop of the tour, the prime minister will visit Argentina, marking the first bilateral visit by Indian Prime Minister to the country in 57 years. Prime Minister Modi will engage with President Java Mille to discuss partnerships in agriculture, trade, technology, and critical minerals. After Argentina, the prime minister will head to Brazil for the BRICS 2025 summit in Rio de Janeiro on the 6th and 7th of

2:31 July. This visit will also mark the fourth time Prime Minister Modi has visited Brazil. Also on the sidelines of the summit, the Prime Minister will meet several world leaders. The final leg of the tour will take place in Namibia, which which will also mark the first visit by an Indian prime minister to the country in 27 years. So the significance of this visit, what's on the agenda and how it will reinforce India's partnerships across the global south, that's what we're going to focus on in perspective today. I'm delighted to welcome two distinguished guests on the program. With me in the studio is former ambassador Virindra Gupta, a career diplomat who served as India's high commissioner in Tanzania, Trinidad and Tobago and also South Africa.

3:16 Ambassador, delighted to have you with us on this edition of Perspective. Welcome to Sunset TV. Joining us virtually is Dr. Ajayak Kumar Dubet, Professor Center for African Studies, School of International Studies, Javar Lero University. Professor, glad to have you with us on this broadcast as well. Thank you. So, together with the two of you, we'll try and understand the significance of this visit of the prime minister across five countries. We'll discuss each phase of the prime minister's five nation visit over the next eight days. But to begin with, Ambassador, help us and our viewers understand both the diplomatic and the strategic significance of Prime Minister Modi choosing these five specific no nations for his longest diplomatic tour in nearly 10 years. Look for any country

4:04 uh summit level visits uh by prime minister uh are the highest form of diplomatic engagement and uh the fact that prime minister is taking a visit of 10 days at a stretch goes to show that the kind of energy that he can bring onto his job right this is incredible and without uh any precedence countries have been chosen very carefully I would say firstly it shows continuing focus of India and particularly prime minister Modi on Africa Africa we have a traditional connect and we have centuries of connect with Africa but what had happened before prime minister Modi's arrival on the

4:51 scene is that we were not giving adequate attention to Africa we were not undertaking adequate number of highle visits and I Prime Minister Modi was clearly intent on correcting that anomaly and he himself has undertaken several visits to Africa. So I think it is a continuing thing in that um Latin America on the other hand is a little bit far-flung. He's going to Brazil to attend the brick summit, but he's taking that opportunity, making use of that opportunity to visit two most important countries on the Latin American continent. I would say Brazil, Argentina, and Mexico. Uh so these two

5:37 countries that he's visiting are extremely important for us from the standpoint of our bilateral relations. And uh I think one can only assume uh that uh this will contribute uh a great deal in furthering our relationship and we can identify we'll be able to identify very many specific areas where this cooperation can be advanced certainly. So how it's going to build further on the bilateral ties that we enjoy with these countries, how how these countries have been strategically and diplomatically chosen for the prime minister's longest diplomatic tour in nearly a decade. We'll delve in greater detail in the next round of questions. But uh let me bring in Professor Dub into the discussion, get his thoughts

6:22 first on the significance of this uh uh crucial visit. The prime minister is undertaking an 8-day visit. Professor he's embarked on this uh visit already and ahead of his departure statement the prime minister did say that this visit provides an opportunity uh to reinforce India's ties with not just a global south but at the same time uh perhaps add momentum and accelerate our relationship with several countries in Latin America also in the Caribbean but to begin with a lot of these countries and something that I observed was uh have not seen an Indian prime ministerial visit in decades kids. For instance, to Ghana, this is the first visit by an Indian prime minister in 30 years. To Trinidad and Tobago, it's the first by an Indian prime minister in 25 years. To Argentina, it's the first

7:09 bilateral visit in 57 years. And to Namibia, it's the first by an Indian prime minister in 27 years. So uh what is the message and what what is the message uh that you think this important visit of the prime minister send particularly to the countries in the global south and also to the rest of the world. Yes, as you said, this is something that has been planned very carefully. Um for the single reason that prime minister this time is um going for brick summit. A summit which signifies alternative global structure of governance, global structure of finance where the most developed countries um are not part of

7:54 it from the west and therefore is the global south and the countries which are not benefiting from the current structures of uh of the global governance they are coming together. Therefore the brick visit of prime minister along with these countries which are from the global south which are going to matter for the alternative structures of global governance that prime minister has decided to take them up and as ambassador vir Gupta said in this we have a very strong partnership from African countries and also with Indian diasporic countries including Trindar and Tobago which had been very friendly to India and And therefore when we are engaging with the bricks with a

8:41 definite agenda visiting these countries and reinforcing ties with global south and then re reinforcing the brick network is is going together certainly. So in that aspect let's also now focus on the regional engagements the bilateral focus of this visit to these five countries. Uh uh professor starting with Ghana which is the first uh stop of the prime minister how is India looking to re-energize its ties with West Africa what opportunities particularly are emerging in areas uh of trade investment capacity building if you could throw light on that aspect yes Ghana is very important for India because it's one of the few angophone country in West Africa which is mostly

9:29 franophhone countries it is also a country that with which India has a long-term relationship starting with KMI and Kruma NU and and currently we are also engaged if you just go to Ara take a flight from uh um Dubai Emirates you will find 70% the passengers are of Indian origin they are either going for business or they stay in Ghana we have tremendous potential very good relationship it had been an active member of global South an active member of non-aligned movement in the past. India Ghana relations had been extremely good and it had um shown some significant result. uh capacity building and human resource development. The two

10:16 areas where we are focusing in Africa has been very active in um Ghana and therefore uh Indian prime minister visit to Ghana after a long gap is going to reinforce Indian visits um in Africa. What is important for us to understand that out of the um 90% trade that India has with Africa they are confined to just 10 countries and Ghana is one of those angophone countries and therefore it is very important to have our economic relation um going in this region where um there is tremendous potential to extend our cooperation with the neighboring franophhone countries and also to reach out to those uh countries

11:03 where you can see the um new alliances like Sahil alliances are emerging how to reach out to them through Ghana is going to be important right in fact uh the prime minister also underlined in his departure statement ambassador that Ghana is a valued partner in the global south it plays an important role in the African Union and the economic community of West African states so how how is this visit now going to enhance cooperation in areas of investment energy health security and you you particularly said that our engagement with Africa has increased many fold especially under Prime Minister Modi Tenor. So how do you look at uh this visit now adding momentum to the ties that have uh that we've seen progress in the last few years? Well, as professor Dubet said, Ghana has been a very

11:50 important robust member of the African community. uh starting from the uh time of Afroasian solidarity uh both India and Ghana played a very very dynamic very strong role. So I think it it is good to g given our traditional relationship with them to reconnect and to try every possible means to strengthen uh the relationship. there is a very high degree of acceptance I would say of India in the entire Africa and particularly in anglophone Africa where we have greater connectivity. uh so Ghana is that typical country with whom uh there is a

12:36 huge potential for improving the relationship but I think prime minister's delegation uh and prime minister himself will be focusing on many of these areas in the energy sector in the trade and investment in technology collaboration in solar technology area there are many areas where India has done considerable amount of work and I'm sure Ghana would also be interested in taking forward you know there was a time when the relationship was defined by political connect uh and the kind of solidarity that you bring on you know and the the strength to the voice uh of the non-aligned movement today also we lay lot of emphasis to the outreach with the global south as prime minister has said and uh but I think

13:22 increasingly we are also looking at the economic and trade connect and I think with Ghana We already have a fairly substantial relationship. I think trade is upwards of three4 billion dollars and I'm sure it can be taken forward. Before we move to the next leg, Tindar and Tobago, the prime minister is also expected to address the parliament of Ghana. Now how rare and uh is that gesture in diplomatic parliament if you try and understand how rare and significant is this is that gesture of a visiting dignitary uh addressing the parliament and and especially uh in context of how India is committed to raise the voice of the global south how we have actually uh brought them to the global table uh do you think it's an outcome of all that kind of uh uh

14:09 solidarity or support that India has extended to uh Africa in recent It certainly is. I think it's a great honor not only to Prime Minister Modi but to India. Yes. And certainly it's not routine for every visiting head of state or government to be provided this opportunity. So I think this is a very special honor that Ghana is extending and I think it is very illustrative very reflective of the increasing stature of India and the right spirit in which we have you know played our part in the global affairs starting if you recall the G20 you know summit uh leadership which

14:56 prime minister Modi you know conducted and the the elegance um with which that that was conducted. We uh were able to register that we do not belong to any camps and therefore we try and work to promote harmony. And we also uh told people told the countries that uh we have to look at alternative ways of promoting harmony. the the existing theories of uh conflict and division of power haven't worked. So I think prime minister gave a call for Vasu Kotum. So I think all of that has gone down very well with the

15:41 global south. Hopefully uh that there is a lot of potential in building on that kind of relationship as well. Uh so we'll wait and hear uh from what the MA has to say after that visit. But coming on to the second leg which is to Trinidad and Tobago and uh since you served as India's high commissioner to that country ambassador I'll take the question uh from you uh in this country the Indian diaspora is quite significant with with Shindar and Tobago India has a historical connect but a visit by Indian prime minister this one is happening only after 27 years. What are the expectations? what will be high on the on the agenda when you see the leadership of both countries meeting? Well, Trinidad is a very special country for us because uh there only five

16:29 countries in the world where Indian diaspora is roughly about 50% of the country's population. So I think that makes it very very special. Trinidad is a is a very rich country is the largest economy in the uh Caribbean. Uh before I go any further, I must say Trinidad is also a very important member of Caraccom. Caraccom is about 16 17 countries. I forget how many exactly but about 16 17 countries. Now at any given point of time when we are you know counting our numbers caraccom is going to play a very very important role. So I think we need to pay attention to Caribbean countries and particularly countries where we have a strong you know goodwill and a strong

17:15 people-to-people connect. I think Trinidad and Tobago apart from Surinam both these countries and Guyana these all these three countries are part of Caraccom. So we have a very very special unique outreach to uh Caraccom and I'm sure prime minister's visit would not only strengthen the bilateral relations I'm sure people in Trinidad and Tobago they they are so emotionally attached to India people of Indian origin and they would welcome this opportunity with open arms and I think they would make prime minister feel very very welcome. our economic connect is not very huge because the country is very far off but uh I think it's all in the heart there is so much of emotional connect with Trindad and Tobago right uh professor in

18:02 that context you know since ambassador mentioned about these countries with significant uh uh Indian communities with sizable population of Indian communities how do you see uh the Modi government uh leveraging cultural diplomacy as a tool of foreign policy Okay. Cultural diplomacy especially with countries where you have Indian diaspora in substantial number also not just a substantial number where the head of the government currently is of Indian origin and therefore the cultural diplomacy of India to connect with the local population through Indian culture becomes very important. In some way country like Trinidad and Tobago they have preserved Indian

18:49 culture far more than what we have preserved in India and you will find leaders over there saying that it's time that Trinidad they start exporting Indian culture to India because they have preserved it far more than what India has done so far. It is in this context that when one finds that Indian prime minister goes there, it's a big deal for people of Indian origin. We have Indian cultural centers over there. As ambassador Vir Gupta said, Trinidad is among the few countries which had looked towards India from very beginning because of the distance and the policies of the Congress government and Neu to dissociate with diaspora that some of these faroff country could not get as

19:36 much attention as they deserve as they wanted. So prime minister visiting this Caribbean country with substantial Indian diaspora with Indian head of state elected head of a state is a big thing in terms of promoting India through cultural connect right ambassador coming on now to Argentina because that's going to be the first stop and that's also quite interesting because uh uh what we see is that this is the first bilateral visit to this Latin American country by an Indian prime minister in 57 years. So what does this mean for India? India's ties particularly with the Latin America's third largest economy and now especially under the new leadership there the prime minister will have engagements with the new president. What do you think what

20:22 are the issues that both of them will discuss? Are there newer avenues of uh partnership that India and Argentina can explore together? Well, certainly being the third largest economy in Latin America and a large country, also our co-artner in G20. I think Argentina's significance is fairly obvious. Um, so it is it is I would say an oddity uh ironical that we did not undertake any visit to Argentina so far. M so I think prime minister's visit will correct first of all that anomaly show the right intent on our part to take forward this relationship being a large economy there is obviously

21:10 a huge potential and you know there are there are rivalries within the Latin American continent and I think it also sometimes an impression gets created that we are only Molly Codling with Brazil given our partnership in IPSA and BRICS but I think this is an opportunity for us to register that we are open equally to every country uh there is a huge amount of bilateral um uh you know spread that can be worked upon which hasn't really been developed I mean if if Argentina being such a large country our trade is compared comparatively small

21:56 I think roughly reaching about 5 billion or so but it can be taken forward it can be taken you know upwards we have um energy interests OMGC Videsh is active there not just in the oil sector but also in the renewable energy sector there is a lot which can be done so I think it's an opportunity look India is trying to diversify its options we have our traditional partners both politically and economically and I think prime minister seems very intent on uh uh you know reaching out to new partners so I think this is what this visit and you know since visit since this visit of the prime minister covers both Argentina and Brazil both countries

22:41 where the prime minister will be stopping over uh professor what's your understanding do you think it's a potential opportunity for India now to develop a Latin American strategy as it deepens beyond trade into technology, space and also energy cooperation because as ambassador rightly said we are trying to diversify our relationship with countries particularly in the global south yes this will reinforce India's ties with the important country of global south as ambassador vir Gupta pointed out we had not been focusing on Argentina as much as it was needed our focus was largely because of the various region historical regions IPSA bricks only with Brazil and it appeared that we

23:30 are um not focusing adequately on Argentina these days the diplomatic move uh and political outreach leads to economic connect as well and therefore this will not just reinforce the global south that we are trying to connect more strongly now but also start more econ economic connect with a country uh with which we are not connected so much politically as as as required coming now I you know despite me trying to cover every aspect of the prime minister's visit we we've already uh spoken for about 24 minutes so we are yet to cover and get your opinions on

24:15 bricks and uh Namibia so let me very quickly uh touch upon the bricks aspect ambassador uh from you First, how crucial is the bricks 2025 summit in Brazil for India's multilateral agenda especially amid global power realignments that we are seeing and the expansion of the group per se. It's sort of bricks is important for us. We have been a founding member and we always looked upon it as an alternative forum to voice our opinion and to network to connect with countries of the global south primarily. U I think the world is very confusing place and it's ever dynamic. Um at at a point of time when we um were very actively pursuing the

25:02 idea of bricks um our relationship with America was still in the developmental phase. We were progressing our relationship but we weren't there at that time. We couldn't say that we have a strategic connect with America which we have now. So bricks was developed uh not uh you know to oppose the western nations but certainly as a counterpoise as an alternative opinion to the west. U China is there but in the last so many years after the bricks evolution or or initiation our relationship with America has become far closer. We have a strategic connect with America and China

25:49 which is a partner in the bricks has become somewhat adversarial. Yes. So this is totally you know change the dynamics. We no longer look upon bricks as uh a counterpoise uh to the western because we don't need that kind of thing. We are given a space in the western forums. Prime Minister recently attended the G7 summit as observer which we've been doing for the last five six years and prime minister I mean India has very good relations with each one of the G7 countries if I were to tell you that with not only America but France with Britain with Germany with all these countries. So I think collectively it is

26:34 natural that uh we we have a good relationship with western countries but I think what the confusion also teaches us is that you can never be sure about uh anything in the global affairs. So you got to keep your options open. I think from that perspective uh our uh continued involvement and focus on G on the bricks uh is extremely important part of our you know management of global relations. Absolutely and I think uh given the context in the wake of the global uncertainties very quickly professor I'll uh take one take your perspective on the expectations from bricks 2025 and particularly do you think uh given the uncertainty the volatility it does present before India

27:21 an opportunity to shape bricks agenda because uh in in in uh in in the wake of an expanded bricks there is of course that multilateral uh agenda in India's agenda that aligns with but at the same time it does present India with that opportunity to drive through its own agendas and and and perhaps uh build the narrative. Yes, I think the bricks does that what you said but bricks also does what is very important for us to understand that we might have developed a closer relationship with the west with the United States currently but the country's intention changes structure don't change then you are in trouble the global structure of finance management

28:08 the global f financial governance is something that is still problematic IC for India we still cannot buy from the country where US imposes sanction where the swift is blocked. Now this is matter of intention but the structure is not matter of intention and therefore the bricks works for a structure where alternative options are available for global south countries including including for countries like India. Not it does not mean that we are not having good relation with the west but we are trying to have alternative wherever we have issues in the global financial governance and also strategic management. Besides that as you said as the this is a fluid situation India is important country as a founding country

28:55 when other countries are joining it has important role to play that bricks remains not just confined um to one dominant country but other countries also get equal representation which are much more neutral and focus towards the the bricks goal rather than try to perpetuate hedgemony within the bricks itself. Professor, I'll also take one question on Namibia because that's the final leg of the prime minister's longest diplomatic tour uh in the last 10 years with Namibia. Uh h how would you explain our strategic uh and environmental dimensions of this visit? And I ask you this because uh there's been a recent cooperation on wildlife conservation also a partnership on uranium. So h how do you see uh us now

29:43 building on that relationship and this uh crucial visit of the prime minister that comes in uh uh after 27 25 years? How how how do you see it adding to that dimension? I think it is helping a great deal simply because uh the initial freedom fighters and the political formation like SUAPO they opened their office in uh India when they were not allowed in Namibia. they walked from here. We had tremendous political goodwill in Namibia. It has many critical minerals which we need and um we had not been able to translate our political goodwill into trade and economic engagement. So prime minister visit over there will add to all that

30:29 our focus had remained South Africa. Now it will also move to Namibia which is important from critical mineral's point of view and we have very good political relationship with them. Ambassador one last question from you and this is because uh uh India has time and again been pushing for a permanent seat at the UNC uh and increased trade engagement as well. How crucial are these African nations that the prime minister will be stopping over through engaging with the top top leadership in uh not just as diplomatic allies but also allies at multilateral fora where it counts where we want these countries to stand firmly behind India and support us well when when and if the question of

31:16 permanent membership comes I'm personally very skeptical but if it comes the numbers will be in the reckoning and we count large numbers in Africa and Latin America particularly caraccom I mentioned Caribbean countries so I think we'll have to pay attention to these countries from that perspective alone I mean quite apart from our traditional construct what we said is that we want to build on the uh our our connect with Africa uh convert that into economic opportunities not just for us but for them as No, we India doesn't pursue economic interest only for its own gains because that can never be lasting. You have to

32:02 promote mutual interest. Enduring interest will develop only if the other party, the other country sees in any activity that we undertake and a mutual interest. So I think we have to pay attention. I don't think we ought to be obsessed with the um permanent membership of the security council. The reason being that it's going to be very difficult. Uh there are there are important countries in the world including China which you would be aware who will not let that happen who just frustrate us at every point of time. So I think what we say is that whatever is not going to happen let's not let's forget about it. Let's not remain obsessed about it and focus on other things which are far more important. Okay. Okay. So with that

32:49 we'll have to wrap up the conversation because we've already uh bypassed our time and the it's it's an important visit. It's it's the as I've been reiterating it's the longest diplomatic tour being undertaken by the prime minister in the last 10 years. But uh the most important message here is that India is deepening its roots in the global south while reaching out to new partners as well across continents. A big thank you to Mazda Gupta and Professor Dubet uh for joining us with their perspectives and insights and thank you very much to you viewers as well for your time. Thank you. [Music]