QAnon experts drop MAJOR Epstein news

0:00 I'm joined now by two of the hosts for the QAnon Anonymous podcast, Jake Rockatansky and Travis View. Thanks so much for coming on. >> Thank you for having me. Always a pleasure. Kind of. >> So, yeah, kind of. So, y'all are are the foremost experts on all things conspiracy theories uh kind of downstream from QAnon and and I think what we're seeing right now as the Epstein files are front and center in the news is and I and I feel like I have to to give an apology here because a lot of this stuff where it relates to, you know, the basis of QAnon that there's this that there's this elite pedophile ring, this cabal of people who act with impunity. A lot of a lot of us on the left, I think, scoffed at this because it just seems so fantastical. But in fact, I think we're seeing as it relates

0:46 to Epstein that it's that it's very much a a real thing. I mean, maybe not, you know, a pedophile ring in the basement of a pizza place that has no basement, but but you know, in effect, this stuff does exist. And so I'm curious as you have all of these adherence to the whole QAnon conspiracy theory and the whole QAnon universe whether there's any acknowledgement of the fact that that the people that they voted for to usher in to usher in exposure on all of this stuff are the very people that are participating in the crime that they want to condemn. >> No, I wouldn't say that there is a lot of like self-awareness about that. I mean is there's uh there's because they they spin these wild stories on the idea that for example Trump was somehow like undercover working with Epstein to take

1:33 him down. They credit Trump with uh with like the with the fact that Epstein was arrested under his last administration even though you know they he was not sort of like uh watched carefully enough that allowed him to die in his in his prison cell. And um you like they uh they also credit credit him with the fact that these uh that these are being that these files are being released now. Uh so yeah no there's there's not a lot of acknowledgement even though even though Trump was a close associate of Epstein and so was as these uh as we've discovered this email so was Howard Lutnik the current uh secretary of commerce and Steve Bannon was also extremely close with Epste. They exchanged hundreds of messages according to this new uh trench of documents. Well, it seems like there's just this

2:19 this really blatant cognitive dissonance then because you know I guess the question is is this more about exposing this cabal of pedophiles or is it about protecting Trump? Because anybody who was acting in good faith who's legitimately interested in taking down or exposing the people involved in this pedophile ring could easily see, okay, Trump is involved, Lutnik is involved. You know, he named Alex Aosta, who obviously gave Epstein his sweetheart deal in his first term. he was involved. Trump's new Fed chair pick was implicated in the Epstein files. And so you have all these people, anybody acting in good faith would just be able to say like, "Okay, these people are clearly not on the level. They are the very people that we're seeking to expose." And so is is QAnon more about exposing pedophiles, this this cabal of

3:05 pedophiles, or is it about just protecting Trump? You know, I think you can see two sort of differing systems of belief here and and it tends to be between the QAnon influencers and your sort of standard on the ground believers. I mean, if you go to the most popular sort of Q QAnon, proqinon accounts on X, um, they also are combing through the Epstein files and finding things that label people that, you know, kind of match their general area of target. So, they too are are combing through um, you know, uh, and and ignoring everything else. And I mean, Travis pointed out to

3:50 me, we we we had an episode come out about seven years ago that was called Epstein, the real Pizzagate. Um, this has always been the hardest part of my job is on some level understanding that QAnon directionally is is kind of right given everything that we know about Epstein. And I think >> you have a lot of influencers, at least that I've seen, um, who are going to do whatever they can to keep reframing, uh, the information as it comes out, uh, to align with, you know, their proqon beliefs. Now, I do think there is an opportunity for your run-of-the-mill believer to see this. And if they are, you know, if here's the question, do they are they more passionate about, you

4:37 know, anti-pedophilia than they are proTrump? And and I do think that the answer for some is yes. I think this could be a potential exit ramp in the same way uh that when Trump called Epstein a hoax, you know, think about that now given everything that's come out. But when he called it a hoax, there were a lot of people who said, "Wait a minute, absolutely not." You know, um and and they they began to kind of fall away. >> Well, what are you guys seeing in in online forums and stuff? I mean, you know, you uh you have to uh part of your job is that you have to subject yourself to an even an even darker part of the internet that than even I have to deal with on a daily basis. And so, but you know, that's your losses are gain. And so, what are you seeing, you know, on these online forums from folks? I mean

5:24 there's there's lots of like claims of like vindication if you can believe it from like from from these people just because um because like the the the general narrative about like uh elite corruption and uh child abuse and coverups and you know elite impunity was was uh was generally correct. But like like we mentioned like like on our podcast we've been talking about that for like seven plus years. I mean the fact that uh that there's uh you know elite abuse and impunity and uh people who like sometimes abuse children and cover up for those who do that part is uh has been has been uh you know well known that we've got a lot more details about what this network looks like thanks to the thanks to these documents.

6:09 But like yeah, they do this thing where like they sort of like uh they sort of like retreat into these abstractions where like they feel like well they were like generally right and so their wildest nonsense about like you know uh pizza code words are also right which is just not the case. But they feel vindicated at the fact that they ushered in a Trump administration who are themselves the ones who are implicated in all of this. And so where does the vindication come from? like, okay, yes, that there there is a cabal of people, but the people who they empowered to expose all of this stuff are the ones who did it. And so, does that part ever register? Well, I mean, kind of baked into the theory, there's so many little rules kind of baked into QAnon that allow you to kind of opt out when you

6:56 run up against a, you know, a piece of real information that that makes the entire Yeah. Yeah. that makes the entire mind pyramid collapse, you know, otherwise. >> And you know, one thing, you know, that that has been consistent is that Trump is, you know, I remember what's really interesting about the Epstein stuff is that Qanon and people and conspiracy theorists, they would always use Epstein as like a as like a stepping stone to to then launch into another unproven conspiracy to say that that's real. that they never talk about the facts of Epstein itself, but they would always use Epstein to say, "Well, because Epstein exists, then all of these other conspiracy theories about Hillary Clinton and all this stuff are real." Um, and they've consistently believed that Trump has infiltrated this this

7:43 circle. all of the stuff about Trump, you know, uh, uh, being a Democrat, uh, in a former life, being friends with the Clintons, attending Chelsea's wedding, uh, you know, all of his interactions with Epstein that we've seen up until this point. >> He was just, he was just a double agent this entire setting years. >> Exactly. Now, I my brother sent me a a video this morning of him audibly his pants during a meeting and ending the meeting. So the idea of him being like Liam Niss from Taken and infiltrating like the biggest, you know, child trafficking ring, uh, and he is the sort of hero at the center is becoming less and less plausible. Um, but we're it was it was unplausible in 2017, you know, when the first Q drops uh

8:28 started happening. So the idea, you know, if they believed it then it's it's, you know, it's it's they're going to believe it now, >> right? I I is there I mean, why do you need why do you need like Epstein to be a stepping stone into some bigger conspiracy when Epstein's situation in and of itself is already gigantic? I mean, you have you have world leaders, you have princes, you have I'm sure like you have all of these people. I mean, Elon was planning uh Elon Musk who was planning uh visits to to Epstein's islands that that we found out. Um you half the half the Trump administration isn't is named in these files. Why do you need this to be just like some little stepping stone to a more vast

9:13 conspiracy theory when th this is pretty damn vast unto itself? >> Yeah, I I share your frustration with with the the way they interpret things because like I always feel like isn't this enough? what we know. Isn't that the Isn't this uh relevant enough? Isn't this outrageous enough when having to uh add on uh all of these extra sort of like wilder theories that have no uh evidentiary basis at all? And I think the problem with a lot of conspiracists is that they're they're really attracted to this idea of secret esoteric information. And if like if it's being reported like everywhere, if it's if it's if it's provable in documents to the point that like you know just normal casual news consumers know about it, it's no longer secret and esoteric.

9:59 Right. Right. >> It's it's kind of it's kind of like embracing conspiracy theory because because they want to be in that world of conspiracy theory. >> Yeah. And they they want they want to have feel like they have sort of like they possess a higher level of knowledge of how the world works than everyone else. I feel like this feeling of like specialness I think is really more important to them than sort of like adhering to what's known and what's what's well well in evidence. >> Do you think that it was a mistake for the Trump orbit? And I don't necessarily say Trump himself because I don't think he was ever that involved in like the QAnon stuff, but there were plenty of people in Trump's orbit who were. Do you think it was a mistake for them to embrace this given the fact that, you know, we're now in a situation where all of these people themselves are are, you know, either implicated or or or are are

10:46 part of an administration that's implicated in this. And so it's only reflecting poorly off of them. Like there's no world in which in which the last few releases of the Epstein files do anything but reflect poorly on, you know, Trump and Bannon and Lutnik and Wars and, you know, any Elon Musk, whoever it may be. So do you think that embracing this whole world from the outset given what given where we are now was a mistake? >> Well, I mean I think uh I think I like like politically maybe their their idea was like well they're going to sort of like uh sort of like encourage this sort of like this very passionate sort of like but minority base of people who believe that you know uh Trump in a circle can do no wrong and and anyone who opposes him are uh are pure evil.

11:33 Right. And then and all of a sudden you don't have to worry about, you know, things like, you know, uh like like proving your proving your case. I mean, I feel like this was sort of their way of trying to solidify uh their base and keep them in a bubble and keeping them from ever uh questioning why uh why why, you know, for example, Epstein called like Trump like is his best friend in a recording and these sorts of things. I mean, I I think it's like it's kind of like a desperate strategy, but um I think that was probably what they were trying to do. >> Yeah. My my my general opinion is that they they kind of had no choice to a certain degree. I I I I I see this happen with Trump just since since 2016 is he's constantly kind of left with the bottom of the barrel as he sort of peels

12:20 away anybody still reasonable that's sort of in his orbit. And like Travis said, I I think there must have been some kind of internal data that QAnon was enough of a contingency and enough of a voter block that they eventually had no choice. And and who knows? I mean, in the early days, I remember uh you know, they were trying to distance themselves from QAnon as much as possible. And it was Trump who was going, "Well, I don't know. I think they like me quite a bit." you know, he was the one who who kind of he couldn't stop talking about him because they were, you know, they loved him the most, >> right? I mean, the crazy thing like even even with the shooting of Renee Good, who was like the perfect foil for Trump, the fact that uh her parents were apparently Trump supporters, like that

13:07 gets to him there. It doesn't matter ideology or beliefs or philosophy. He just likes that you like him. That's it. I mean, yeah, I think I think yeah, I think he's very uh strategic in terms of like coalition building where he's like like he's like even if he doesn't necessarily agree with people, it's like he's like he said that like one of the when there there's only two times he was really asked about QAnon during his first administration and one of the times he asked what he knew about it, he said like I know they like me very much and that's really all that's important to him. It's like it's like like he knew that these were people who were passionate about them who supported him and he was not interested in alienating them as a consequence of that. >> What is the state of the QAnon movement right now? I presume that it probably

13:52 peaked sometime around you know 2016 2017 uh 2018 maybe around the time that Marjorie Taylor Green was getting into Congress. But but I'm just curious whether whether you think that it's that it's hit its peak or whether we're still seeing this movement grow as more people come online, more people get sucked into rabbit holes and conspiracy theories and you know we we have obviously less digital literacy with the with the introduction of of more AI and and on and on. I feel like just pe people's general sense of what's real and what's not is kind of getting worse, not better. Well, I mean, I think it kind of just sort of got absorbed into the wider kind of like right-wing media sphere. I mean, we saw recently like with just uh uh a few weeks ago that the um that the

14:40 the Department of Labor Twitter account was tweeting out QAnon related slogans. And so, uh, you know, it's like it's like it's like either someone at the Department of Labor social media team is very pilled or they understand that this is still a base that's worth signaling to, or they know how much it upsets liberals or even your your never Trump Republicans um, who hate QAnon more than anything because it it, you know, to them uh, it made the whole conservative movement look like complete idiots, you know. completely disconnected from reality. Um, you know, so that's like the third option is that they know that they know that people know where it's

15:25 coming from. They know that some journalist is going to go, why is the Department of Labor doing where we go, one, we go, you know, they know it's going to cause a reaction. And that is unfortunately um a a a part of politics now is the is this like sort of like antagonistic nature that I that I really think you know began uh you know in 2016 with with Donald Trump. >> I mean look it's rage bait and and it's it's the currency of the internet. I think that if they have the opportunity to get a bunch of libs mad so they can so they can uh you know o own the libs online then like that's a perfectly acceptable uh thing for them to do as far as they're concerned. How many people do you think we're talking about here? Because you're talking about this contingent and I think for for normies like myself, like I I cannot grasp a

16:12 world where there are more than like a handful of them in some, you know, MySpace group or some Facebook group circa like 2013, but like how roughly what are we talking about here in terms of numbers? >> It's pretty bad. Travis, what the last numbers were really bad. >> I I I'll confess I I I haven't checked on on the polling. Uh people haven't done polling on QAnon belief in a couple years, but like last last they checked it was like it was in the neighborhood of sometimes like four or five% which is you know millions of Americans. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's it's is it's it's >> that's like that's like 15 or 15 to 17 million people. >> Yes. That's right. Yeah. That's right. And like I mean >> also happens to be roughly the same uh

16:59 level of polling for belief in that uh that there's a cabal of lizard people who rule the world. There's lots of people who believe some silly things. >> We're getting close to like the number of people who think that Tylenol is is is safe. You know, like we're going to have more people who believe in QAnon than believe that like you can take Tylenol and be okay. >> But like look how powerful QAnon is to a certain degree. I mean, if you watch that original Marjorie Taylor Green Facebook post video where she's going over all the Q stuff, um, she she she's not looking great, but her her steadfast belief in QAnon propelled her to, you know, some of the highest levels of power one can achieve in America, only now to have her kind of back away from it. Now, she's a good an interesting

17:44 example of somebody who whose true beliefs might put them at odds with the president. Now, I would I I don't want to give Marjorie Taylor Green that kind of credit. I think it's probably more likely that she kind of just senses where the wind is going and no and is an opportunist and and doesn't actually believe in anything and will go wherever she feels is like, you know, most advantageous for her. But uh you know there is an example of a very public person who has uh you know gone against Donald Trump in the wake of how he's handled the the Epstein files. >> I'm curious what the reaction has been to her because she was I mean she was even more bought in. I mean she was a better representative a clear representative of the whole QAnon movement than than Trump ever was. Um and and but but there is a lot of it a

18:32 lot of um kind of uh allegiance to Donald Trump within the whole QAnon movement too. And so now that those two hate each other are in conflict with each other, where does the movement more closely align with like is it is it Trump even though he was never really like a a QAnon um you know true believer like Margie Taylor Green was? Um, I mean, yeah. I mean, Green is interesting because, yeah, she was someone who very sincerely believed of a lot of she was on the QAnon bandwagon just a couple months after the first Q drops and then and then she somehow got got into Congress. Um, but it was but the the problem was that that she was a true believer. According to reporting, one of the things that caused the rift is that she pushed for release of the Epstein

19:18 files, which uh which which Trump was a lot more uncomfortable with. And it was really interesting if you watch her video in which she she announced her uh resignation which was uh it was in November of last year. She said that there is no plan to save the world and no 4D chess being played. This seems to be a direct reference to uh QAnon. There's a the plan to save the world is a very successful uh very popular QAnon video. So she seems to be saying what got her to stop believing some of the the the wilder claims of Qanon was working with Trump directly. >> Yeah. But I mean the there's there's irony in that in that the whole basis of this thing is that Trump is going to be the salvation, right? >> Yeah. That's that's that's that's the that's the big that's the big fantasy.

20:04 But like I said, it was like it's like we have the the only example of a QAnon true believer who got to Congress, was able to work with Trump himself, wound up wound up coming to realize that uh that's not true. He's not he's not the savior. >> I I'd be curious to know how many people lost faith in Trump because you have this one true believer. You have Margie Tiller Green who is now at odds with Trump over this very issue is because he's the one suppressing these files and clearly implicated in these files. If that's not enough for a bunch of these people to say, look, if Margie Taylor Green, who's like the only one in Washington DC, who's actually like, you know, on our level, if even she is going to break with Trump because of his involvement in all of this stuff that we claim to condemn, then like how is that how is that not good enough for these

20:49 people who've put their faith in Trump? >> That's a good question. I I >> mean I mean I'm coming here with logic, too. I mean, a lot of this is you kind of have to suspend that. >> Yeah. I mean, we we are increasingly barreling towards a world where it it it's of no use to look at time poorly spent and reflect. Uh if that makes any sense. know why why go cuz now at this point if you're still on the the QAnon bandwagon you've now waited through four years of Trump four years of Biden and a year into this new administration for Hillary Clinton uh to be perpwalked and it's it's just the opposite. It seems like Hillary Clinton is doing far far

21:36 better than than Trump is. Um, so at this point you would have to say, you know what, wow, these last like 10 years almost that I've spent are like wasted. Um, that's really hard for people to do. You can do it. I I just right before we jumped on, I checked uh one of the very popular uh like proqinon accounts on X um or Twitter, whatever. And the post today was taking a break. Going to go spend some time with my family. >> You know, it's bad when even like the the terminally online people are like, "Hey, I'm going to go touch grass outside right now." >> And that's the that is I think in my opinion probably the best thing that

22:22 could come from this for people who are still wrapped up in conspiracy theories, QAnon, all that stuff. >> Um >> is if if it makes them upset enough to want to take a break. You know, one thing that we've seen over time is is that the less time you spend on the internet and the more time you spend with loved ones, family, something that's grounded in reality, you these conspiracies can become you can become less passionate about them as other things sort of like take their place. Um, but that's, you know, it's a for a lot of people it's fun. You know, I I was on, you know, I was on Blue Sky and threads looking at all all of the posts about Epstein and all of this stuff. And look, people are baking. It's fun to go online and try to figure out a narrative

23:11 that makes sense, no matter what, you know, what political aisle uh you sort of reside on. Um and and and you know, it's it's it's tough. As long as the internet's there, there's going to be people that are going to have a narrative for you that aligns with something that you like. And it's increasingly useless to try to go, well, this is just from this one source, or who is this from? Like, let me go let me go check. I'm going to see what this other outlet is publishing to get the real idea. It's it's way easier to just find something that you go, yeah, that sounds right to me. And that and that's reality. You guys said something interesting in our last conversation that that stuck with me and that that is that there's always something there's always going to be a new like if you're in the world of conspiracy theory, there's always going to be another conspiracy theory to explain away conspiracy theories that aren't neatly

23:58 resolved like or that don't make sense. And so I I I say that as the the backdrop for this question. Will there come a point where Trump will have been in office four years during his first term, four years during his second term? Um, and and even now with full control of government, full control of the Department of Justice, he's got as compliant uh an attorney general as you could possibly ask for, we're still not going to see, you know, Hillary Clinton perwalked because of some, you know, pedophile ring in the basement of a pizza place. It's just not going to happen. And so, will there ever be a point where those folks who believed in all of this stuff will say, even under the best conditions possible, all of our people in charge, Cash Patel, Dan Bonino, Donald Trump, Pam Bondi, all

24:44 those people, we're not getting what we want. Maybe it was always >> Yeah. I mean, the research really shows that like the like conspiracism is really is a mindset and that that that does something for people. It it it it aids sort of like you know uh sort of like sometimes like even like social bonds. I mean like it being a conspiracist gives you instant access to a passionate community who are kind of like interested in the same things as you. You know it's uh it's a it's sort of like sometimes it's more of a way to like you know ward off uh uncertainty and fear and anxiety and loneliness more than is an earnest attempt to find the truth. So yeah, for that reason, of course, there's always going to be people who like who concoct these these

25:29 elaborate theories, not because they not because they're really interested in uncovering corruption, because it's just it makes them uh makes them feel connected, makes them feel special in a way that nothing else does. >> It's it's more like uh this is it's a it's a journey, not the destination type deal. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Jake, what do you think? >> When um you know, one reason that I started the the QAA pod um was because I myself uh a default kind of to conspiratorial thinking. Um you know I was working in the entertainment industry and um you know I always wanted to be a screenwriter and so I I followed conspiracy theories casually because I I loved the story. You know, I I was always looking for a really interesting story and um I can tell you that when I

26:15 was at my most vulnerable and susceptible to to believing conspiracy theories and even being pulled further rightwing, I I credit finding like more lefty political podcasts like Chapo Trap House um and just other other people in like the lefty space that were critical of government but not going to such a conspiratorial means I I I think in a lot of ways that saved me from going further, right? And I can tell you that at that time in my life I was struggling financially. Uh I was lonely. Uh a lot of my friends were partnered up and were kind of feeling like they had moved on with their adult lives. Um I I was angry. I was I was bitter at at people who were having more success than I was.

27:01 And and that is when I was the most susceptible. So I I think a lot of it has to do with where people are in their lives. Um which can change you know like you know there are times when you can be really susceptible to these kind of things and there are times when life is so good outside of the internet that these theories hold a lot less weight. So unfortunately the answer is as long as there is this community there to accept people who are lost, who are looking for an answer, who are looking for somebody to blame, um there's always going to be these communities online especially there to to welcome them with open arms. But that's not to say that there aren't points of exit. And my hope

27:46 is that, you know, I don't know. I I you know, part of me is like I hope Trump makes it the four years because then because if he dies in office, there's going to be a new slew of conspiracy theories about who poisoned him or what not. >> Um but my hope is that >> in the decades to come >> that maybe uh we can sort of pull back. I I don't know. I mean, the people who have the people who have the power to do so, which is the people who run these big social media companies, um, it doesn't seem it seems like they're not on our side. So, especially given some of the the the revelations from these the Epstein emails. So, I I don't know.

28:32 It's kind of a bad answer. I sort of think people are just going to continue to get more pled and more segregated unless we can find like some kind of like political figure who who can make everybody feel loved and listened to. I don't know. It's a bad answer. >> Yeah. No, no, I mean it that that does make sense. Well, I I am curious as cuz because you mentioned like moving forward, you know, uh uh in time here, is there something on the horizon that somebody like me like again in in kind of the more normie space of the internet doesn't know is coming but is coming like in very much the same way that I learned about QAnon last. Like I'm not I'm not in those corners of the internet. Um, but I'm I'm curious like what's what's coming down the pike that we should know about >> liberal QAnon?

29:20 Well, I mean I mean I think uh I mean people are already kind of like aware of this, but like um I think I think um in partly in consequence to the fact that uh that Trump was reelected, a lot of a lot of social media networks um like like like Facebook um sort of like just took off the guard rails. you know, there was like there they before they had some sort of like sort of moderation and fact-checking efforts before, but boy, those those are all but gone now. Um, that's like that's sort of like that's better for, you know, that's better for their bottom line because they they have to invest in less moderation and like is is good because they they they you know, the clicks from uh the clips from conspiracists are just

30:06 as good as the clicks from everyone else. And uh so there's lots more uh nonsense just uh that that's going to so it just you just have to be more guarded. You have to be a cautious person. I mean we saw this we saw this with uh with the recent release of the the new Epstein documents. There were some there were some fake ones floating around like like uh with Elon Musk. It is true that there are a few emails that show him actively trying to get invited to the island, but there's one uh one in particular. It says something like, "Oh, uh can I can I go?" Oh, girls for the win. I think I think it was what what it said. Yeah, it was like that one was totally fake and but a lot of people thought it was real, but like it's like was like one of those things. It's very convincing. I mean, that's that's all it's like like as as bad as sort of like

30:51 misinformation was before. The fact the fact that uh now there's essentially no regulatory pressure on these social media companies now means that you know you have to be a uh a conscious consumer of social media in the moving forward. Yeah, my my I was actually just talking to my buddy Dave uh from college yesterday and he he actually put it really succinctly and he said that I I asked him if something was real or not because he had sent me one of the files actually one of the one of the documents from the Epstein files and I asked is this real and he said I just assume that everything is real and also that everything is AI and like you just like the line between what's real and what's not is just obliterated these days where we are we are immersed in so much lunacy that if you told me any of this was real, I'd believe you because look look

31:38 at what's happening. Look at the world we're living in. But at the same time, if you told me it was all fake, I'd believe you if you said that, too. >> Yeah. I I'm at the point where the I'm getting videos coming across my feed and it's like, can you tell the difference between the AI and the real one, and I can't anymore at, you know, I think past 40 years old, you you lose that ability um to detect AI. Maybe maybe maybe it's just me, but I think that's where we're going. That's what to look out for. And the and the sad truth is that it's already here. I mean, we used to never talk about AI on the podcast. Now, I feel like every other episode we have to debunk like some kind of AI image or video or something. There were so many uh that came out uh uh revolving around

32:24 the the two ICE murders. Um, I mean, the two most recent ICE murders, I should say. Um, >> yeah, >> it's just, yeah, it's exhausting and I I all I can say is to to folks listening is just to try to have a little bit of patience. there's um there's such a rush for information to come out and there's this whole ecosystem of influencers and independent journalists um who really want to be first on the scene with some kind of narrative and it's really easy to just kind of take that as fact but but as I've seen if you wait long enough usually enough information comes out that you can kind of have some picture

33:11 of the truth and that's Okay. And that's and that's okay. Maybe a picture is all we're we're able to get. Um but it's better than nothing. >> Totally. Hey, um Jake and Travis, where can folks who are watching right now or listening right now see and hear more from you? >> Yeah, you can check us out on uh yeah, was like any any uh podcasting app go to QAA and you can find our uh free feed if you like what we do. We also have a Patreon which we offer uh we offer premium episodes. We also have a uh podcast network where we do really fun minisseries about topics like like like uh online trades. It's called Curse Media. You can find that at curse media.net. >> Awesome. I'm going to put the link uh right here on the screen and also in the post description of this video. Jake and

33:58 Travis, thank you guys for the time. Thanks for um navigating the corners of the internet that save us from having to navigate those corners. I appreciate it. >> Always a pleasure, Brian. >> Always a pleasure, man. Good to talk to you.