Self-Realization and God Realization || Swami Sarvapriyananda || At Sacramento

0:03 Good morning. Welcome everyone to this morning's special lecture by Swami Sarv Priyano. Swami Sarvup Priyanandha has been the minister and spiritual leader of Vanta society of New York since January 200 2017. He joined the Ramak Krishna mat in 1994 and [snorts] received sunaso in monastic bows in 2004. He served as an acharia teacher of the monastic professionals training center at Belurat, India.

0:48 He also served in various capacities in different educational institutes of the Ramak Krishna mission in India and as the assistant minister of the Vedanta society of Southern California. Swami Swarvapand is a well-known speaker on Vanta and his talks are extremely popular globally via internet. He's also a prolific writer of speaker whose [clears throat] words make the insights of adita vanto accessible to modern audiences. And I welcome you to this important talk. The subject of his talk

1:36 is self realization and god realization. And before I ask him to come, I have few uh announcements to share with you. Please refrain from taking photographs or recording videos during the talk. Kindly switch off your mobile phones so that everyone can give their full attention to the talk and Swami Sarvapano will take a few questions at the end of the talk. After the talk, those wishing to ask a question are requested to line up along the aisle. The swami will take questions

2:21 one at a time. He will not be available for personal meetings after the talk. A recording of the talk will be uploaded to our YouTube channel shortly. Our YouTube channel will be available on vantosacto.org or and you can just go there and there you'll find our YouTube channel and we have arrangements for accepting free will offerings and that can be given in the basket near the door and I thank you all for coming and attending this important talk by Swami

3:07 Sarvrianandu. Now I request Swami Sarvy to come and present his talk. Thank you. [applause] That is an impressive crowd. I'm seeing it. You're not. You're looking at me, but I'm looking at you. I must thank the Vanta society in Sacramento especially Rivierad Swami propanandra J Maharaj Swami Isodhan J Maharaj who conceived of this idea of having and like an open house just let's just people come from wherever in the Bay Area or from further away and no registrations no formalities just come

3:53 and sit and listen and uh discuss wonderful idea let me start with a chant Oh, shanty shanty shanty. Om lead us from the unreal to the real. Lead us from darkness to light. Lead us from death to immortality. Om peace, peace, peace.

4:39 Namaste and good morning once again. Um, in addition to our Vidanta society, I must also thank the Zorestrian Center of Sacramento. I remember I was speaking at the world zorestrian uh conference in New York 3 years ago I think. Um and there I said to them that you are that you know ancient Hinduism and ancient Zorestrianism have very close links very close links. You are the guys I was telling the Zorestrians. You are the guys who gave us the name by which we are known Hindus. We all know how uh the river Synindhu the ancient Persians

5:26 did not pronounce it as Shindu. The S became the H and it became Hindu and later on the Greeks changed it to the Hindus and then it became India when the Europeans came, British and others came. So that's where our religion gets its name. That's where our country gets its name. And there are very deep connections between the ancient Vic religion and Zorestrianism. These are the two oldest living religions in the world today. I'm very glad to be therefore present here at the Zorestrian Center. um great German indologist

6:12 Hinrich Zimmer. He escaped from Europe, came here to the United States uh escaping Nazi persecution like many others where he came and settled down in New York and did some of his best work there. Later his books were actually edited and compiled by Joseph Campbell you know uh and Joseph Campbell had a vidanta link. He was a disciple of Swami Nikilanand G and he was very close to the Ramak Krishna Viveandanda center there in New York. Anyway, all this is to say Henrik Zimmer he says the ancient philosophies of India, the spiritual philosophies of India are deeply optimistic. Now this is contrary to what is

6:58 generally felt you know that ancient Indian philosophies seem to be world negative pessimistic about life. Um and yet Zimmer says if you look closely at them all of them are optimistic in the sense in a deep sense because all they all say there is hope there is a deep solution to the question the human question the question of human existence. All of them they say there is something they it goes by various names in ancient India moa freedom mti freedom nirana kalia there's another ancient word abawar so multiple terms in ancient Sanskrit spread across the ancient Hindu

7:43 traditions jinism um Buddhism all of them Say what we are looking for we can actually attain in a deep lasting and profound sense. We are all seeking to overcome suffering that there is suffering in life. Every one of us knows it. There is of course physical suffering. The suffering of old age. Our our senior most member in the vanta society New York today is Bill Conrad. He's 102 last month. and he's a veteran of the second world war and he's a he was a scientist and he says to me Swami old age is not for

8:30 sissies physical suffering old age sickness the suffering of pain and sickness and death the biggie the death there is suffering in relationships if we suffer physically ally the suffering of our dear ones of our beloved ones that is even makes us even more because we are helpless there parents especially you take care of children and the suffering of children suffering of your whether young or grown up you feel so helpless and what will you do for them suffering of our parents and grandparents suffering of the our friends and neighbors and members in the

9:15 community physical suffering Uffing even [clears throat] worse mental suffering and often it seems to be a life sentence. If there's chronic pain, chronic illness, there is financial suffering poverty want deprivation. There is social suffering, psychological suffering. There is suffering in in in a political sense, you know, suffering in the sense of of the environment in many many many ways. You're surrounded by difficulty and trouble and pain. It may not be deep tragedy or suffering. It could just be a constant uh irritation or not enoughness.

10:02 Not enoughness. It still isn't perfect. So this is one side and we all struggle against it. We all struggled against it. I remember one person wrote to me my uh 12year-old daughter said to me why this why do you talk about overcoming suffering after all you have accepted all the good things in life. You don't say why do I deserve such good things. You're very happy to get all the good things in life. So when it comes to suffering why not just accept it. I don't know what answer to give to my 12year-old daughter. I I was thinking the answer is she's 12. She has not faced suffering and let us pray that she has doesn't face suffering. If you do face suffering and you say no accept it is fine to suffer. No, it is not fine. Nobody can accept deep lasting

10:51 profound pain and tragedy. No, it's not right. Especially when it is caused by human beings and it could have been otherwise. Then also we want fulfillment quite apart from the dark side of it. We want fulfillment. We want to be happy. We want to be lastingly happy. We want to be um profoundly sustainably happy. Not just the fleeting pleasures of life. So this quest it drives us. It drives us in so many different ways throughout life. And we wonder is there any deep solution or is life like this suffering? There's no cure for suffering. attainment of lasting fulfillment. There is no lasting fulfillment. Well, Zimmer says the ancient Indians found that there is an

11:37 answer. There is a deep profound answer which we can all realize in our lives. you know mti moa nirvana and they found methodologies one of the ancient Indian texts surv which is a compendium of Indian philosophies about 1,000 years old 800 900 years old where it says these ancient philosophers and sages were like doctors sakami in Sanskrit just like doctors they diagonalize the illness they look at the symptoms suffering aha what's the illness what's the source of it. They diagnose it and then they look is it curable or is it incurable? It is curable. Is there a treatment for

12:24 it? NHS approved, FDA approved treatment. Yes, there is. And they found not one, not two, but many, many, many paths. And they walked upon this path generation after generation for centuries and millennia till it became an accepted p part of ancient Indian life and culture that spirituality is real. God [clears throat] exists or the ultimate reality Brahman the Buddha nature whatever you call it exists. It is accessible and one can realize it. One can go beyond suffering in Sanskrit the utter and total sessation of sorrow and anandi attainment of deep lasting

13:12 fulfillment and bliss. It is possible. It can it is doable. The proof is many have done it before us. It is a welltrodden. It's not the pathless trodden. It's the path well traveled. Thousands and thousands have traveled upon this path and attained to fulfillment. So this is possible and they found ways to do it anandra overcoming suffering and attainment of fulfillment. So Zimmer says these were profoundly optimistic philosophies. They were not pessimistic. In fact our modern the kind of zeitgeist that we have this is all that there is to life. make some money, make the best of it, and soon you're going to get old and sick and die. That's it.

13:59 It is unsaid because if you say it like that, it sounds horrible. It's unsaid, but it's accepted. I was just a few weeks ago at Stony Brook University in a conference where one of the speakers was Robert Thurman better known as you know he says people know me as Umar Thurman's dad but he is a very noted scholar and practitioner of Buddhism Tibetan Buddhism and he was saying this was by the way his last public appearance and that too he was online he said it's my birthday 84th birthday or something and it didn't come but then two weeks later he was gone he passed away just a few weeks a few weeks ago he said what a terrible thing that we are doing in the modern world generation after generation we're teaching people that you know the most what's the most cool thing to be the

14:46 most sophisticated thing to be is to stop believing in anything just grow up grow up don't believe in any kind of ideology any kind of idealism no so this kind of crass secular mindset where it sort non-thinking you know the whole purpose of life is not even now achieving anything great it's mostly swiping on your phone and that's be absorbed in that pastime somehow in that he says what a terrible thing that we are doing to our generations when these wells of human wisdom are there found throughout the history of human human civilization we should draw upon them to face the challenges there

15:31 are tremendous challenges before us today. So we are going to take a look at this uh what is this source of perennial wisdom. Elder Saxley wrote this book the perennial wisdom um perennial philosophy. Yeah, they found many ways those ancient Indians over periods of centuries and millennia and if you see look at all those ways you will find broadly two approaches God realization and self-realization. Look at it that's where the subject of today's discussion comes up. God realization and self-realization. Um in the west until recently religion and spirituality was something which people thought it's to do with God that

16:19 you can actually have a religion without God was unthinkable in the west because the west was used to um Judaism Christianity Islam mostly Christianity and a little bit of Islam and Judaism they're all god centered religions by the way the roots of all of that they lie here in ancient Persia in the Zorestrian religion from which elements went into Judaism and then into Christianity and Islam but anyway so God centered approach and there is but in India if you went to ancient India until today they realized very well there could be approaches which are not god- centered there could be approaches best based on self inquiry

17:06 self-realization I'm not saying self-centered sounds and self inquiry, self realization. See there are religions like Jinism, Buddhism in India, very wellnown ancient ancient religions. [clears throat] Jinism is even older than Buddhism. So going back 2,500 years or older than that and they are not particularly God- centered at all. They are based on self inquiry. and Hinduism in Hindu traditions you have traditions like this ancient sanankians which don't talk about God at all and you have all these mainstream vishnava sha shakta gapati various streams of theistic religions in India parts of all parts of um all um

17:53 lineages traditions within Hinduism. So it was well understood spirituality can be um for God realization it can be for self-realization. There are two ways and it should not be surprising because our entire experience of life is self and object self and the other. How do we experience life? Even now each of us each of us experiences life as I and everything else I and the world subject and object. And therefore when we search for enlightenment our search can be out there. Our search can be in here. It can be in here. So if you look out there, what is the reality behind this entire universe? What is that power which

18:41 produces this amazing universe which controls everything. They conceived of finally the great monotheistic ideas of you know God as the omniscient omnipresent omnipotent all powerful allloving this tremendously powerful being which controls everything produces maintains sustains and dissolves this entire universe multiple times and controls everything here in this universe happens by the by the provenence by the um grace of that one supreme power that is God and what these approaches ancient Indian seekers they they said it's not just a question of belief God exists as Viveand said in this country just over 100 years ago if God

19:28 exists I should be able to see God if I have an immortal soul I should be able to feel it an empirical claim for an empirical age we're not satisfied only with believing just because the book says so that's wonderful I can subscribe to it but can I experience it for myself and without exception all these ancient Indian philosophies not just vanta whether it's the Buddhists or giants or the sanankians or the nayakas they all said the yogis they all said yes you can experience this not only you can experience this but you must experience it in fact that is the goal of human life why is it the goal of human life when it's not my goal it is the goal of

20:13 human life because your goal, my goal, everybody's goal is to overcome suffering, is to attain to fulfillment. Whatever we are doing in life is in some way connected to this grand project of overcoming suffering and attainment of fulfillment. And this goal, if you were to realize God, you would fulfill this goal. That was the claim. And then there were these others the Buddhists the yogis patala yoga the sanankians the jinas who said about god we don't know but that fulfillment we're looking for lies within that overcoming of suffering we're looking for lies in a proper

20:59 understanding of who or what we are and inquiry into ourselves so Buddhism jinism sananka those who have studied Indian philosophy you'll say but yoga patali yoga believes in god it's true nay also believes in god bashes also believes in god but god is not the goal of these systems the goal of these systems is to realize ourselves as this limitless consciousness the purusha in sananka or in yoga so again self inquiry so these two approaches and they were well known in ancient India it's only in recent times with the advent of Buddhism in the west that now the west is comfortable with a religion with a spirituality which is not centered around God which is not theistic which is non-theistic not atheistic but

21:46 non-theistic one thing that they all have in common all these approaches they all believe in something transcendent something beyond this material world if it didn't they would not be spiritual philosophies um somebody said oh Friday and psychoanalysis is like is a religion or communism is a religion. They are not. They're entirely materialistic. To be a religion, to be spiritual, certainly there must be a central element of transcendence of something beyond this body, mind and senses, something beyond this material world. All of them whether Buddhism, Janism, various schools of Hinduism, they all had this element of transcendence. And they all said you can realize it and you

22:34 must realize it. It is in fact what we are all seeking. There are interesting differences in these two approaches. Self-realization and God realization. [gasps] There are advantages and disadvantages. First of all, also note it depends on the the personal makeup of each of us. If we look at spiritual seekers, we are all spiritual seekers otherwise you wouldn't have come here. But if you look into our hearts, we'll see one of these two approaches appeals to us more. What are we looking for? Are you searching for God? That could be one option. Or are you searching for who am I? That's the thing that motivates me. You know, maybe the question of God is good, interesting, but I really want to know

23:21 who or what am I. That could be another approach. So even in our own spiritual makeup as spiritual seekers we are either god seekers and I won't say self-seekers again sounds horrible we are self inquirers either we are searching for god or we are searching for our true nature the two approaches self-realization and god realization two kinds of seekers now it may not be very neat we may be bit on both also and we'll see why that is um quite possible and indeed It might even be reflecting a deeper maturity. [gasps] So this these are the two approaches whether in the religions or in individuals like us. I have seen our monks I've asked

24:07 sometimes why did you become a monk? Some say that I'm seeking God. Some say that I'm I want to know who am I? I'm seeking self-realization. See the two kinds of mentalities. [gasps] The two approaches have self-realization and god realization they have their advantages and disadvantages. What is the um the advantage of the god- centered approach? Well, God omnisient, omnipres, omnipresent, omnipotent, all powerful, all the omnis. So what could be the what does what problem does God have? None. God is God. No problems at all except one. Does God exist? The existence of God can be and has been

24:54 doubted because the God- centered approach, the God realization approach starts with faith. Notice the word used for religion in the United States in America is faith. The idea was because all these religions, especially Christianity, but also Judaism, Islam, they're all God- centered. The idea was it must be something to do with belief. What do you believe in? Which scripture, which tradition, which which form of God or which conception of God do you believe in? Faith. And that says something very important about the God realization approach. The problem there is if you don't believe, if we doubt, then this god- centered approach, it'll be very difficult for us.

25:40 And you will find in every one of these god- centered religions, there always have been theologians and philosophers who have tried to defend the idea of God. When do you when [snorts] do you defend something? When do you argue? Only when it can be doubted. Thomas Ainus in Christianity five proofs of the existence of God. Some might be excited to know there are actually proofs of the exit of the existence of God. Yes, there are. But don't be too excited. If you actually look at the proofs of the existence of God, you'll be a little disappointed. And they are nice. If you already believe in God, they are nice. You will feel, yes, of course. And if we don't believe in God, they won't help you. They won't change your mind. They're not as powerful as that. proofs of the

26:26 existence of God. In the Indian tradition, the great naya philosopher, there are multiple philosophers, especially the Nayakas who are very good at arguing. So they developed multiple proofs of the existence of God. Ishwara Bhagavan Udchara speaks about nine proofs of the existence of God. Why did he do that? Because they were challenged. The existence of God was doubted. The Buddhists, they came and said, "What God? What are you talking about? I remember I was in this interfaith conference several years ago, nearly 10 years ago. It was organized by the Sikhs. Yes, that's another uh religion from ancient from medieval India and that's also God- centered. So the Sikhs had organized it. There were Hindus,

27:11 Buddhists, Christians, Jews, um a Jew from New York, actually a rabbi from New York. So they all there everybody was talking about how God is one and we are all children of the same God and it's all very nice. I saw a group of Tibetan monks. They had come that Dalai Lama had sent them. They're sitting at the back and smiling politely. [laughter] You can talk about God all you want. After all it's nothing more than a fairy tale. So God can be doubted. They attacked the ancient Hindus. This idea of God, a creator of the universe, doesn't stand to reason. Where is the proof for it? David Hume Hume said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. God

27:57 exists is the most extraordinary claim. It requires extraordinary proof. We don't even have ordinary proof, let alone extraordinary proof." So the Buddhists attacked the Hindus for, you know, the existence of an immortal soul, the existence of God. And then Hindu philosophers defended it. arguments uh achara um the nyayakumanjali very ancient text even now it's studied in Indian philosophy departments nine proofs of the existence of god [gasps] so it can be doubted if you look at the lives of saints in the god- centered religions theistic religions they are often attacked by doubt I am praying and praying no answer comes

28:42 is is Does God exist? Even at an advanced [clears throat] level, one may suddenly be attacked by doubt. Maybe all this is just a fiction of the mind. It is not. It's true. But this is the problem in the god- centered approach that it depends on faith. It uh we proceed on faith and spiritual practice in this path depends on faith. This problem is not there in the self self-realization approach because no one doubts the existence of themselves. In fact, the one thing that we are utterly sure about is that we exist. Nobody gives five proofs of my existence. Nine proofs of my existence. No.

29:28 Professor Parimal Patil in Harvard University his famous book is against a Hindu god. So the arguments of the Buddhists against God which the Hindus again replied to. So that debate it's a very densely written book. You might argue against the Hindu god or the Christian God or the Jewish God. But you can't argue and say that whether the Hindu exists or not. Yes, we exist there. There is no doubt about that. My own existence is not open to doubt. uh uh Decart 300 years ago. We all studied theart because we studied mathematics cartesian code x-axis y axis but that deart was a great philosopher and and his profound insight kito I think therefore I exist he said um

30:15 I'll set out to doubt whatever can be doubted this world which I am seeing it could be false it could be a dream long before virtual reality he thought that suppose it's being projected into my mind by some evil demon demon so it could be a dream. It could be wrong. I could be dreaming here. It could be a virtual reality. It could be a Matrix movie. Uh but or the Inception movie or something like that. Could be a virtuality. But one thing I cannot deny that I am seeing it. Whether this is real or not, even my body is real or not, I can doubt. But I am seeing that I can't doubt. So the contents of our experience can be doubted. But I as the experiencer is not open to doubt. I think therefore I exist. I experience therefore I exist.

31:02 My own existence is not open to doubt. So there in the self inquiry, self-realizationbased approach, this problem is not there. But what is the problem in self-realization based approach? My own existence is not open to doubt. But it is the problem. I surely exist but my existence is the problem. I I am this little fellow, this physical being, biological being. I will get sick. I will get old. I will die. People are nasty to me. I feel depressed. Um I have failures in life. My own limited miserable existence is the problem. I surely exist. But that's the problem. God has no problem. But maybe he doesn't exist.

31:50 So and if you notice the spiritual practices on both sides are also different god realization religions what will you find you'll find something like this you see this beautiful swaminaran temple coming up there god- centered approach this one also you'll see a shrine a zerestrian shrine is there it's a god- centered approach if you see uh sometimes a Buddhist uh it'll be mostly meditation halls maybe scriptural study, philosophical inquiry meditation. So on one side there may be song and prayer and places of worship. On the other side you will find there may be meditation halls and philosophical discussions and so inquiry and inward directed inquiry. Methods of practice

32:36 also differ. Now you will notice that I have not yet mentioned vdanta god realization or self-realization both s raakrishna says when when a human being when when you realize who you are you find godh human being realizes who he or she is you realize god the sufi mystic who said when When I searched for Allah, I found myself. When I searched for who I am, I found Allah. The same thing. Meister Ekart, one of the greatest is a Christian theology and monk, but also a

33:22 great great non-dualist who came upon this non-dual truth by himself, not from Vidanta. He says, "The ground of my soul and the ground of God are one and the same ground." >> [gasps] >> So this insight what adant does what does advanta say [snorts] that thou art you are that that god which all the god centered religions are seeking in various names various ways various stories rituals philosophies theologies that god and you what you truly are which the self inquiry religions are seeking Buddhism, Janism, Nya, Vayika, Sananka, yoga, what they

34:08 are all seeking. These two are ultimately the same. What the god what god realization will lead you to and what self-realization will lead you to you are that that thou art. this grand equation you know what it does if you think about it what if you look back what was the problem with the god- centered approach and what was the advantage and the disadvantage what was the problem the advantage and disadvantage with the self-realization approach the problem with the god- centered approach was not sure open to doubt can be doubted the problem with the self-realization approach was not open to doubt but problematic my sure absolutely certain existence is surrounded by thousand and

34:55 one problems. God's has no problem. Infinite limitless nature but doubtful. What that thou art what it does is it brings these two together. If [clears throat] you think what it does is it makes the absolute certainty of the self inquiry approach combines it with the limitlessness of God. It takes you and shows you this absolutely certain existence which you have which we have is also the limitless existence of God. Our problem is I will die. That's my problem. But then the self inquiry approach shows you but you are not the body

35:41 and you're not even the mind. Then that witness consciousness which we are will that die when the body dies is that upset when the mind is upset we realize no that's not true. So the fear of death goes what what are we doing basically in this approach we are removing the limitations of the absolutely injubitable self. You exist. No doubt about it. But what we consider to be the problems of our own existence, those problems are knocked out when we see the limitlessness of our own existence. So ai you bring them together. That's one of the beauties of vanta. You can take that entire vast corpus of the millennia old teaching and compress it into one little sentence. You are that

36:30 a brahasmi. I am Brahman. I am atma Brahma. This very self is Brahman. The ultimate reality Brahma consciousness. This awareness consciousness which we are all feeling truly understood in depth when you investigate it is Brahman the ultimate reality of the universe short sentence. All of Vanta is packed into that. And what does it say? This this one word Brahman. Very interesting. Self-realization, God realization are brought together into what? What is this Brahman? What is Vanta trying to tell us? What do we discover by self-realization? What do we discover by God realization? Consider

37:16 the term sat anand Brahman itself existence absolute consciousness absolute bliss absolute sat chit ananda consider the greatest questions that humanity has ever asked. One of the branches of philosophy is called metaphysics or today it's called ontology. The the study of reality study of existence. And the question one question there is what is real? What is real? That's what we talk about in metaphysics or ontology. And there's another question which comes up whenever you say things like God is real or God is not real or heaven is real or matter is real or mind is real. Um all these things when we talk about

38:03 it Harry Potter is real or not real. So when we talk about these things question will immediately arise how do you know all this? Justify it. What is the um source of knowledge? So the second branch of philosophy is called epistemology. How do you know what is knowledge? How do we get knowledge at all? Any kind of knowledge. So study of knowledge epistemology. Otherwise without that you can make any claim. What is the value of making those claims? You must show justify it. And then there's a third branch of philosophy which is the study of value. The point of it all. What's the point of all this? What's the value of all this? What do you get out of all of this? So the study of value, ethics, beauty, joy,

38:50 there were number of disciplines. Ethics was one discipline, aesthetics was another discipline. All of them now have been brought together. There a new fancy new term is there. Axiology, the study of values. And they ask what is the point of it? What is the value of it? Now look at the answers from Vanta for these three questions. What is reality? And Vanta says s being itself. Existence itself is the ground of reality. All beings, everything that exists, it is made up of s being [clears throat] absolute existence. How is knowledge possible? And Vanta gives an answer. You can debate all this. If you debate it, the whole course of philosophy will come out of it. But look at the bold answers. The

39:35 answer, how is knowledge possible? The vantra's answer is consciousness chit. And what is the point of it all? What's the value? What are we looking for here? Anund answer is anund. Bliss, fulfillment, overcoming of suffering, attainment of lasting fulfillment. Very positive. It's very interesting if you look at the history of Indian philosophy when you come to the philosophic systems dashas, nyaya vika sananka yoga buddhism jinism, you see what is the goal there. You will say all all of them will go the goal will always be how suffering is overcome all of them they seem a little negative there and that there suffering and how to overcome suffering and all of them claim that suffering can be overcome

40:21 that is true but if you go further back into the Vedas which is the common tradition we share with the zorestrians if you go back into the Vedas into the upanishad especially their overcoming s suffering is secondary ananda they All are full of talking about ananda bliss, happiness joy positive. So the answer of vanta, what's the purpose of all of this ananda? And vanta goes further and says these three are not separate. Sat, chit and anund are not separate. They are one reality. The three ways of describing or talking about one reality. That which is s existence itself is chit. Consciousness itself pure consciousness is anund bliss itself. Sat ananda is one

41:09 reality. It's that's what is what we call Brahman. And vanta says you are that. And it doesn't stop there. You are that Brahman is this grand conclusion is this Brahman which is limitless existence, limitless consciousness, limitless bliss is you. You are that. What a stunning stunning uh bringing together God realization and self-realization into one reality. Satjit Anand I was just thinking Swami Viveananda how beautifully he put it late 19th century when he came to the United States here

41:57 he was speaking to Americans in 1890s today we had 250 years of American independence I was reading I was surprised startled to see what Vivikandanda told the Americans here he says we want a democratic spirituality democratic religion You're a democracy. He says in Europe at that time they're all royalty ruled by royalty. In Europe, what who is powerful in society? His highness, the king or her highness, the queen. All power and wealth and authority and prestige is concentrated in the hands of the king, the ruler. And we are all ruled by the king. And yet he says in your country you have deposed

42:42 the king and the king has gone into all of you. Every one of you here remember 1890s every one of you here you are a king. And that is why he says your country is the most prosperous most powerful most free in the world. He's talking at a time when um before the rise of American power it was actually at that time England, France, these were the superpowers at that time. But there he says no this country he sees the country of liberty this is the most powerful. He says I come here to this country New York. He says Ellie silent people were coming migrants. I see this man coming from Ireland. The Irish immigration Pat Patrick he actually this I'm quoting

43:27 Varandanda. He comes beaten down by life crushed. Life has crushed him. His head is bowed. Two days later I see him walking in the streets in New York. He stands taller. He stands straight. Why? Because you Americans you have told him Pat you are as much of a human being as I as we are. You stand tall tall this idea that all men are created equal. Vanandanda saw the declaration of independence. He saw the do those founding documents of the United States of America as spiritual documents. He says I'm literally quoting from Viveanandha. He says that that in your country his highness the king has gone and in vanta centuries

44:14 million year ago the kingdom of heaven disappeared from vanta it became spirituality became democratic brahman the ultimate reality god realization is self-realization each one of you we are standing in the company of the divine vandanda says to ancient Indians and to Indians in his time from ancient India onwards the spiritual ideal was very high in India. Who is the person who is most esteemed in India? It is the monk. It is the yogi. It is the one who has renounced life and to go and find God. The one who stays in the mountaintops or in the forests deep. Viveandanda says very radical new reading of Vanta. He says, "He who runs

45:00 away from life to meditate and die on a Himalayan cave in a Himalayan cave, he has missed the way. He who plunges headlong into the foolishnesses and vanities of life, he too has missed the way." Now this seems very strange to us because it seems like a binary. Either you plunge into life, you do stuff which people are doing. be a proper dweller of the Bay Area, you know, do stuff or you give it all up and go hiking in the Himalayas with your backpack and what not. One of the two. If both have missed the way, what's the other way? There's no other way. Viveandanda says the way is to see to divinize life itself to see God in those who are all around you, in the work that you're

45:47 doing, in the life that you're leading. Sri Ramakrishna put it in a simple way. His guru put it in a very simple way. He who has it here has it there also. He does who he who does not have it here doesn't have it there. Here and there could be India and America could be the plains and the Himalayas could be in work or as a monk or married or as a monk whatever whatever is here and there but the idea is the one who has it here it's right here. So Viveandanda he said democracy the highest spirituality is also a democratic spirituality which sees divinity everywhere. Yes God in heaven absolutely but God here on earth also. Yes God in the future but God here and now God now

46:34 God in the human. God in every sentient being. God in the non-living thing also everywhere. One divinity shining. Not just not just as a matter of rhetoric. Not just as a matter as a slogan, a nice sounding slogan. No. Imminently realizable. Imminently realizable. Whether you walk down the path of God realization or you walk down the path of self-realization, we are going to ultimately come to this realization that there is one nondual shining mass of existence, consciousness, bliss and you are that you already we already are that. This another thing it says that you don't have to achieve it. It's already done.

47:21 One put it in Hindi. So it's have to translate a little bit. Those who see the difference between the Hindi words are very rhyming. Sashta or dashta dashta means the seer consciousness. You and I. I'm not the body. I'm not the mind. Who am I? I am the witness consciousness. That's what sanka will lead you to. Some forms of Buddhism will lead you there. Janism. Some forms of janism will lead you there. The w this pure consciousness. I am that. And who is the shrta? Srishti means in Sanskrit creation universe. And so one name for God in all Indian languages is shrashta the creator of the universe. This is the common definition of god in every theistic religion.

48:08 Those who are Sanskrit pundist will say except patanjal yoga. That is true. That is true. But every theistic religion otherwise god is the creator of the universe. And Vanta says if you see the tiniest difference between the creator of the universe and you the the consciousness shining in this one body and mind you still then that creator of the universe becomes an article of faith of belief and this one consciousness it becomes a limited entity shining in one body and mind. The moment you see the truth is they are one and the same. You are that I'm brahasmi I am Brahman. Is such a radical statement. The moment

48:54 I say I am Brahman. It means I am not just this body. I am not this mind. I am that limitless consciousness which is Brahman. And the other way around also Brahman is I. Which means this is even more shocking as one monk put it. They can say such shocking things that other than you this you other than you say other than you there is no god no Brahma or Vishnu or Shiva or anything any god of any religion those are fictions but you means the real you not this this particular being this particular being that's mealania see I am God this guy Mr. So and so no the real you is after

49:42 that self-realization other than that real you there is no god it's a fiction to think about something that exists I remember a senior monk of our order ramanandu gi he told me that when he was a youngster this senior swami g is in banaras now when he was a youngster before he became a monk he used to go to a very senior monk of our order at that time Prem Shanandh Gi who was a disciple of Ma Shahara of Shahara and Premandi in our daughter was regarded as an enlightened being Brahma Gyani Jan Mukta even in his lifetime. So this Swami Prime said to this young man who became a monk later who told me the story. He said

50:27 he called him close and the Premandi was bedridden at that time. He leaned over and with a trembling finger he suddenly touched him here and because it was so unexpected this young man who told Swami he said I jerked my head back and swami premand said I'll tell you first in Bengali and translate there there that one which was startled other than that there is no rascal called god >> [laughter] >> But you must understand it carefully otherwise it's very blasphemous shocking. It means the our innermost reality and that which we call the god's innermost

51:14 reality are meister's language the ground of my soul and the ground of God are one and the same ground. So this this democratic reality adant has a unique position here. See the yogi can't claim that the badali yogi what what he does is he wipes out the the experience of the world in samadi and stays centered in the inhubitable consciousness which is his own reality which is his own soul. But the experience of the world has to be wiped out. So the I do not experience the world. I do not experience our sense of my body. I do not see, hear, smell, taste, touch. I still the speech. I still the mind in

52:02 that deepest deepest stillness. The light which illumins that I realize that light which is forever beyond sorrow and center myself in that sadi. But it's a denial of the world. You separate this. The san can't say that the sanction attains to peace by cutting of contact va discrimination discernment priti and purusha nature and consciousness separated in philosophic discernment which is called va and I realize I am the witness of all of this I am none of it but I'm the witness of of all of it but it is only the devotey can do that

52:47 to to some extent experience this oneness. The devotey what the devotey does the lover of god bha can in heights of devotion erase the boundaries of selfhood and merge in the divine and we feel one with god have no sense of an individual separate existence but the moment that separate existence comes away and the divine presence is withdrawn even a little bit little bit that's what is called in bi traditions viraa the you miss the presence of God. So the devotey goes through this pendulum. It is inevitable contact and loss of contact with the divine. The presence of the divine and I terribly

53:34 terribly miss the presence of the divine especially if you felt it even once. Now of course this what is called viraa missing the sorrow uh in the absence the felt absence of the divine even that v in bi is of course far superior to the best of joys in our worldly sense I think tukaram or somebody says I forgotten [clears throat] I think it's tukaram he says even a uh a single drop a tear drop shed for the sake of god is a thousand times more um joyful than the greatest joys of this earth. Even crying for God is far more joyful than even the greatest joys of

54:19 this earth. But still we will say that in bacti there is what is called yoga. It's very interesting in yoga pat by yoga I mean patali yoga in meditation when we realize who we are in patanjali yoga the whole thing is predicated upon v yoga duka yoga v yoga yoga so the contact contact with the with the world creates misery and to cut that contact vog is what is called yoga whereas for the bha for the devotey the lover of of God. It is the contact with the divine which is the source of bliss and spirituality. It's the separation from the divine which is the source of sorrow. So the dev the devotey wants

55:06 yoga contact with beloved with my Krishna with my Rama Sri Ramak Krishna with with Maali with mother Kali adanta is the only one which takes you beyond say yoga and yoga whether in contact or whether in separation it is one shining undivided reality your contact with the world it is not the world it is Brahman appearing as this world with the name and form of this universe it's appearing as this world it should shut down everything sit in [clears throat] samadhi just one light same Brahman the the enlightened one in adita vant is utterly comfortable in the middle of the

55:52 world think you might say yes so am I so I'm enlightened I'm also very comfortable in the bay area [laughter] so I'm very happy here No, the thing is difference is this. I'm very happy here. I'm happy with my friends and my um video games and my entertainments and my um my job and my um past times, my vacation. Suppose all of it were to be taken away from me. My youth, my health, there's nothing but death in front of me. Would I be still perfectly at joy? No problem at all. Then it's all right. So the enlightened one [clears throat] that is the amazing thing one who realizes that I am Brahman always sees that Brahman no matter what the

56:39 configuration which we see and call the world. So Krishna says attaining which there's no greater gain being centered in which the heaviest of sorrows cannot shake you. The heaviest of sorrows that means after enlightenment also sorrows will come. Old age will still come. Disease at the level of the body will still come. And by our past karma contact with beloved ones will be lost. Contact with those who don't like they will come. Those things can come and the good things may go away from life. But once you we are centered in

57:25 that the result of God realization and self-realization that tamacy you're perfectly at peace. Not escapism. If disease comes we will suffer from the the pain of the disease. So Ramach Krishna was asked sir do you feel the cancer is dying of cancer so do you feel it he says yes it it hurts he was asked how are you today it hurts I can't eat and then uh this person who asked him hurry so later swami turyanandanda says but sir I see that you're in great bliss terminal stage throat cancer what samakrishna said the doctor will say yes it's inevitable pain is there he can't eat it's a lot of suffering It matches but what that young man said you are in

58:10 great bliss how is that possible sir Ramach Krishna agreed with him immediately he says the rascal has found me or salad that means both are true but both are not equally true on the surface level yes it is true this is a body it has a disease it's going to die it's causing pain but more fundamentally are you in pain no you're in great place because it is Brahman for that person. It is the sh self shining forth of that one satiand there's no problem there at all never was never can be so this is how self-nowledge and god knowledge self-realization and god realization ultimately the same thing it takes us beyond it leads us to one undivided

58:56 reality that's the beauty of the non-dual approach the adita vant approach sam krishna's ineitable very sweet and homely way he would Say with eyes closed there is God and with eyes open there is no god. What kind of god is that? So with eyes closed there's the divinity. In meditation complete withdrawal from the world in the serenity of quietness of absorption the divine is there. And with eyes open while I'm seeing hearing smelling tasting touching working in the world interacting with the world the same divinity undivided shines in all these forms before me. This is what nonduality adant promises where he brings together self-realization and god realization together. You can understand Krishna's

59:42 formula shiva ja serve all beings knowing them to be god to be Shiva. You understand in this form Shiva is not only in the temple where we worship but also the same reality. Viveandanda could therefore formulate his doctrine of spiritual service. My God the sick. My God the poor. My God the hungry. My God the illiterate. My God the wicked. These are the object of my special worship not rhetoric. For him it was a literal fact. Who else are these other than Brahman? If Brahman is the one non-dual reality. Whatever we experience, whoever we experience, wherever or whenever we experience, it must be that non-dual reality alone

1:00:28 appearing in that way. Since we do not see it, we only see the outward masks. We do not know that we are encountering God. We do not see who we are. Therefore, we think we are these little bodies which are born, which age, which will die. And we we we sorrow and weep for ourselves and for others. So this is the grand doctrine of the unity of all existence. Vanta said all of Vanta is just these two things. The divinity within ourselves and the oneness of all existence. So this we see exactly the opposite. We don't see ourselves as divine, as immortal, as spiritual. We see ourselves as material. And we don't see the oneness of all existence. We see separation otherness. So this seeing this tremendous diversity

1:01:16 all grounded in this nonduality in this oneness this is the vision which vanta brings to us on this day I pray to Swami Viveanandha to Sri Rama Krishna Masharada to the one God woripped in all religions Aura Mazda here this is the symbol of the most most ancient of religions the Zestrian religion, the God of light. I pray to that divinity which is present right here to bless all of us. It is present right here. It reminds me right here in San Francisco um the first Hindu temple 1905 Swami Trigunat disciple of Swami of Sri Ramak Krishna

1:02:03 he was here and so he was a tough swami and he would scold his disciples we don't had the details yet but we saw we see we have one of his letters replying to an American lady who must have complained that you're too tough on all of And he writes, "Madam, you you write that I am tough on you. You have taken refuge in me. It is my duty to drag you willingly or unwillingly to the shores of the ocean of immortality and to throw you in there. And if on the way I break your bones, I care not." Remember, he lived near the bay. So, it's a very [laughter] vivid just overlooking the bay there. very vid

1:02:50 imagery. So he was a tough swami but he was also very open. He would say to his disciples you can criticize me also anything that you find wrong in me tell me I I'll rectify it. Once somebody said swami when you speak your voice trembles so that's you should change that your voice trembles. He became very quiet and after a while in a low voice he said as to that I cannot do anything. You see when I stand up to speak the audience disappears and before me is the divine mother I I cannot control myself then it is true it's the same vision one divinity in all these forms I bow down to the god of all religions who is present as the one divinity in

1:03:38 all these in these sentient beings may that divinity bless all of us protect all of us and illumin all of Om shanty harrishna what we'll do now is >> you have a few question answers how will we do that >> there are some >> this is a microphone that mic you are welcome to come up here >> and Q up here. Just put the microphone a little little here because there'll be a

1:04:23 feedback in that big speaker. Yeah. Further up here. >> I speak from experience. So, um queue up here. Tell us your name. That's it. The person in the lady who's coming there, she's the last one because after that, if you have time, we'll see. Tell us your name and ask the question. >> My name is on. >> No, I don't think so. >> Just see if it's on tap it. >> They're getting it right. Yes, it's on. >> My name is Sally and I've been in Vidanta a long time. I'm a disciple of Swami Shaokananda. And um one thing that struck me today uh

1:05:10 that you were talking about these two ways there's the the god- centered and then there is >> the self inquiry. Okay. >> So if I were a Christian God- centered would be obvious. If I were a Buddhist self inurquanta I feel like our path isn't this or this. It's this. Yeah. And [clears throat] what I'm uh asking and um just a little added thing when I read this the life of Swami Viveananda and Swam Krishna of course they had these experiences both God- centered both this this and that in different states. >> So could you speak practically how how

1:05:57 what is the practicality of walking a path that is like this? >> Yes. >> As opposed to one or the other. Sally. >> Sally. >> Yes. And you actually saw Swanya Shukhan? >> Who is my guru? Yes. >> Yes. And you heard him speak at the >> I heard him speak. Um I was initiated at the temple that you were talking about um in San Francisco. >> Wow. This is amazing because I remember I grew up as a kid I would read just read books of Swami Ashokan. I grew up reading the books. Those books were mostly transcripts of his lectures edited and uh I remember when I was initiated mantra lead swami bruteshan and maharaj so they have a form which they ask you

1:06:42 to write fill up and one of the things they ask you is have you read any books what books have you read so I give a list of swamy shukanji's books which I had read yes it's always wonderful to see and meet disciple of swamy shukan gi some of the most powerful vanta talks, lectures, writings I have come across in the last 30 to 40 years of studying and practicing vanta swami gi see sometimes often what I do is I teach from a text an adic text so I have verses I have arguments I have examples stories so I'll provide it for me and I sort of serve it to you but what someone like Swami Vivean the did

1:07:28 in greater measure and also Swami Ashokanandra GI did they spoke from their own experience directly. They were not actually the texts influence what they said but they experienced it. They thought about their own experiences synthesized it and presented it. It is said about the great philosopher Vidkenstein that in his classes in Cambridge University he didn't teach from a textbook. what he said became textbooks you know he was doing philosophy in front of the class philosophy was being created as he spoke something like that with Ashok Gandhi you will find if you read his writings there are plenty of books are available you will see the stamp of originality there each lecture you will not see that

1:08:15 he is oh this is the book he is translating into English you will see that all the time with with me when I speak it's either from the dria v or the gita or the panchadashi or something or a mixture of these texts upanish commentaries but with Ashokanji directly from experience so there's that extraordinary power behind it you have heard full talks from him >> yes oh um uh a girlfriend and I used to go to the uh hear the talks we were 17 and we would sit there and cry >> you know the power that he had that He he was able to in his presence you were able to see and be in a different state

1:09:02 of mind. >> Different state of Exactly. That's what I've read. >> Well, that's a good question. In our tradition, there's both self-realization and God realization as you would expect from this talk that both ultimately lead to the same thing and can be and should be practiced. uh but if you look at it as she said if you are a Buddhist then the path of self inquiry is very clear there's a meth there's a whole philosophy behind it there are meditative techniques there are inquiry techniques which are given to you and you practice it and you follow up and you advance from level to level if you are a devotey of god say you're a devotey of Shiva or in the temple there in the swaminaran temple there you're devotey of god and you have a clear path

1:09:48 I am worshiping God and my worship is prayer and meditation and repeating a mantra, rituals, festivities, all of that is my worship. And each rejects the other. If you look at it from a Buddhist perspective, what's going on in temples and churches and mosques now, they are very gentle people. They won't scoff at you. They'll just smile tolerantly. You say if you want to indulge yourself in your silly superstitions, do that. What can we do about it? It's entirely a matter of faith. You're believing in this stuff. And if you ask someone from um a

1:10:33 devotional dualistic theistic background, what do you think about Buddhism? I know a Swami who's very devotional in our order. He said Buddhism is half a religion because there's no God in it. So if you're very devotional and in a very dualistic mode, you will find it very um unsatisfying to have a religion without God. Somebody said about Vanta that he was in Vanta, then he moved on to Buddhism, then he's back again into Vanta. He said, "What happened? Do you come back from Buddhism to Vanta?" He says, "I missed God the old Karma. And he described Vanta as Buddhism with God.

1:11:20 Yes, it is the same reality. Um, if you observe it from outside, if you observe it as the other, it becomes God to you. If you observe it within yourself as if you look at it, look for it within yourself becomes your real self. Self-real self. you know what or who or what Sally really is. The answer to this your your question instead of taking it like this like a DNA strand you know we're moving together um take it as Hanuman did Sri Rama asks Hanuman what do you think of me how do you understand me and Hanuman says as this Hanuman this being this body this person I am your servant you are my lord

1:12:06 you're the master I am your servant as a sentient being who's born from lifetime to lifetime in this lifetime Hanuman you are the whole I am your part but as pure consciousness itself as the self ultimate reality of who I am you and I are the same thing as the body from the perspective of the body I am your servant you are [clears throat] my master as a sentient being I'm a part of you you are the whole I'm a part of atma as the atman as you you alone I am you and I are one reality which is correct all of them are correct

1:12:53 this is my final conviction this is my clarity my conviction Hanuman says the first one you are the master I am your servant this is the classic dualistic theistic mode you are the master I am thy servant You are the father. I am thy child. You are the mother. I am thy child. Sriamak Krishna always offer all his practices beginning to end. Kali was the mother and he was the child of he was the little you know spiritual child of the divine mother. Classic dualistic approach. You are my friend Krishna and Arjuna. You are my friend or you the Lord are my child. Mother Mary to Jesus, Krishna and

1:13:41 Yeshoda, the child Rama, God is your child and you are the the father or the mother of God. Humorous aside, not not important, but I can't resist it. Especially here, I was in San Francisco a couple of months ago in the anthropic headquarters. They had a conference about AI [clears throat] and where so I have to be very careful here. There are rules where you cannot reveal who said what. So I had to sign that. But anyway, there is a philosopher Amanda Ascal. I don't know if you have heard of her. If those who are in the AI

1:14:26 world, you'll know she was hired by Anthropic to teach Claude their flagship AI. She's in charge of Claude's moral formation. She's Claude's teacher and she's been doing that for the last four years. So she gave us a talk me and somebody else we are there. So one hour she spoke spoke about ethics and AI and how she's training Claude to be ethical. There's you can see the document it's called Claude's constitution. It's available publicly now. So she's the one who has formulated it. Anyway, she spoke about her engagement with Claude over the last four years and so and then finished her talk and she left and somebody I won't say who said, "Did we just meet the mother of God? She's so she speaks about Cloud as if

1:15:12 it's a child and it's very extraordinary." I asked just on a whim. I asked Claude that Amanda was saying this about you. What do you think? So Claude gave an answer to me and then Claude asked me by the way if you are um if you are if you are comfortable with that could you tell me what else Amanda was saying about ME [laughter] but it's an ancient paradigm mother of God Yeshooda mother Mary the idea is you relate to God as a child very intimate close If some God as an all powerful you can always ask for stuff but God is a

1:15:58 child and you don't ask for you don't ask for things from a baby. So this is the classic dualistic again wonderful again beautiful here also there is God realization and self-realization who is God my lord my master my friend my father my mother my friend my uh my child and the relationship of the beloved Radha and Krishna my beloved who am I self-realization I am the servant of the lord my definition is I exist to render loving service to the lord and many devotees understand themselves this way this is also self-realization but there's a difference realization is not self-realization god realization and

1:16:43 self-realization they come up together and they define who you are they demonize our life vand said what vanta does is it humanizes our relationship with god and it divinizes our uh our relationship with human beings so who is god Father, mother, friend, child, beloved, they're all human relationships. But who are all these people? God shining in all these forms. You divonize this relationship. So you divonize your human relationship and humanize your divine relationship. This is the dualistic mode approach. Then there is another one not separate not relationship. It's a relationship of oneness. I am part of you. I am none other than you. I am you are the whole. I'm a tiny.

1:17:30 You are the bonfire of whom I am a spark. The oponyishad says out of that sp the bonfire of the divine. Thousands of sparks emanate. You are the central sun of whom we are raised. You are the is the we constitute the body of god. All of us. So that is the second approach. And the third approach is the nondualistic approach. self-realization and God realization of the same thing that you are one limitless um uh existence consciousness bliss I am that we are one and the same identical not part of you not a little bit of you and I are one I am nothing else I'm not this body I'm not this mind I'm not the entity called servananda I'm nothing else except God and God is also nothing

1:18:17 else except me

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