"The Chay Bowes Show"

0:03 Hey everybody. Hey, welcome back to the Shao Show and we got a great guest again uh today and you know the the planets are aligned really for this man to tell us uh what's going on in the world of uh resources, minerals and that's what it's all about right now, right? Geopolitics, geo strategy, it's all coming down to what you have your whole territory. You got the big don in the White House basically telling the Greenlanders, you know, I can buy it off you or I can take it off you, but I'm having it basically. Uh, that's where we are. That's where we are with this American empire. They're not tolerating anybody telling them what to do in their own hemisphere. It's the Donro doctrine. Used to be the Monroe Doctrine. But it seems to be Don is

0:49 basically telling people, you know, this is how it's going to be. Uh, and you're going to do as you're told. Basically, that's how I'm I'm seeing it. And the man we're going to talk to now, Craig Perry, who's the CEO of Vizla Copper and other um incredible ventures, if you like, has been behind the discovery of probably trillions in value of minerals and gold, silver, copper, you name it. He's been around the world doing this type of stuff. I just think it's going to be a great discussion about why place like Greenland are so important, why place like Venezuela are so important, why Russia with the biggest gas reserves on earth probably is so important, why uh you know territory is important again as we face into 2026 into you know the

1:35 rest of the century uh and as the world sort of divides up into three spheres of influence probably Russia, China and the United States, America and Europe are probably left outside the room. So we're going to start. Welcome Craig. How are you, >> J? Great to see you. Yeah, fantastic. We're at the start of the biggest mining boom the world's ever seen. So, I'm busy but very happy. >> Yeah, like look, let's start with uh Venezuela because I want to get Venezuela out of the way if you like. Really dramatic scenes in Karacus. Um it seems uh Mr. Maduro was negotiated out. That's my view. uh because the government seems to be basically functioning as before. It doesn't seem like this was a surprise to many people in Venezuela. Uh business seems to be

2:21 carrying on. Uh I watched an interesting video of Mr. Trump a couple of years back saying that Venezuelan oil is only good for basically taring roads. You know, it's very thick. It's no good. And then I saw him the other day saying that Venezuelan oil is magnificent oil. now that he's basically said, and this feeds into what we're going to talk to about in um in Greenland, he's basically said, "Look, uh we're taking control of this because we see it as a strategic threat." And he mentions Russia. He mentions China. How much of it is about resources? This is your stuff. You're a geologist. You know how this stuff is done. Uh how much of this is about resources and how much of it is about politics? Well, I I think you know weapons that make the enemy

3:08 throw up blood aside, you know, I'd have to agree with you. It did look fairly orchestrated and agreed it was such a smooth operation. It must terrify you know the Ayatollas and uh you know any leadership in Cuba that's left there. But um I I I think at the end of the day, you know, you we're back to that as you say, this Donroe do uh doctrine and and and and I read an article yesterday, you know, that President Trump has been the biggest proponent and the biggest uh supporter of Latin American causes of any president in history. So you you know, you can see what he's doing there and reasserting dominance over the Western Hemisphere. Um, and of course

3:54 the last thing we we've seen this with the Ukraine, of course, the last thing Putin wanted was uh NATO in his backyard. Well, the last thing that that Trump and the US needs is China in their backyard in Venezuela. So, it makes great sense. So, I I that in that sense in terms of natural resources, it's a little bit different. Of course, I think that something's going on here that's a much bigger situation. you know, reasserting the US's energy dominance. And that's something that we've been doing at Visa Copper in recent times is talking to that UN uh US energy dominance council. They're deadly serious about um shoring up everything, every primary input into the US economy that they can, particularly oil and gas. But we're seeing that more and more with critical minerals. And so Venezuela I

4:40 think you know at the end of the day keeping Russia keeping China out of Venezuela has been important and that's you know the predominant reason for this. However those natural resources are tremendous and what that will allow the US to do is uh with this new oil and gas supply that they will have um really affect the oil and gas s price. You know, the Saudis must be terrified that that that Donald now controls a major OPEC nation and indeed the nation with the biggest oil reserves on the planet and that has, you know, now by producing more from those wells, encouraging all of those oil and gas producers to get down into Venezuela um that he's in a position where he can uh affect the oil

5:26 price globally and you know any other enemies of the US uh potentially starve them out over the coming years. So, it's a a master stroke in strategy, geopolitical strategy. I think I think it's quite brilliant. In terms of other resources, you know, in in ground hard rock resources, there's a hell of a lot of things have been found in Venezuela. If I go back 20 years ago to my days at the major mining company Rio Tinto, um I was looking for iron or coke and coal and borite there. And I know that there's a heck of a lot of those crucial minerals as well. So, you know, there's potential emerging there to supply US markets from that side of things. Um, and I think the other thing that this does is puts every world leader on notice that, you know, Trump has the

6:13 capability to do a lot more very very special things uh around asserting dominance uh over territory. And so, I think the world's on notice. I think it sends a very strong message to Xi Jinping that you know what Trump's think I could do anything at any time so please don't invade Taiwan uh and the Ayatollas I don't know how much longer they've got but it can't be can't be long um and then Greenland very special situation I I think predominantly you know a lot's been made about the mineral potential there I think that there's sort of 24 of the 34 minerals that are deemed to be critical uh exist in large scale across Greenland. It's an challenging place to build a mine. You know, it's very cold, it's very icy, uh,

7:00 you know, a long way north. So, I I do think that Greenland is more a uh a strategic uh land mass as opposed to a land mass that uh will deliver those critical minerals. Cuz what I can tell you about, you know, so many of these critical minerals and particularly rare earth minerals is that they're not actually that rare. Um, we we've found a lot as you mentioned there. I think you know my me and my teams have found over $2 trillion worth of inground value in metal. Uh and none of that in Greenland sh it's all been in Canada, the U US, Mexico and in indeed Russia. Um so you know the thing that's impeding the US at the moment is really its permitting regime. you know, in in visa copper, for

7:46 example, we've got a a major copper deposit in southeastern Alaska that hasn't been advanced that, you know, we've been through a massive mining downturn. So, raising capital for these things has been difficult, but getting permits to build mining projects in the US has been incredibly difficult as well. So, you know, the US has tripped over itself a little bit in that sense. That's changing now. um on >> cuz he's aggressively just smashing like some people would say in the international order he's just bulldozing straight through. He's saying look we're taking it and we'll worry about the the cost of that or the the you know the repercussions even with NATO countries. He's doing the same thing with getting these things out of the ground. He's kind of saying enough of this dancing around these regulations which are

8:31 holding back drilling, mining and resources and I'm just going to do it. Yep. Is that that is that really happening on the ground? You know, because you're working with the American government essentially on some things. Is he genuine in what he says? Is he really doing this? >> Well, I I can tell you since we bought our project in southeastern Alaska 2 months ago. You know, I I'm a Canadian Australian. I grew up in Australia. I moved to Canada 10 years ago. And I I can tell you if I wanted a meeting with the the the premier of a state in Australia, it would be incredibly difficult for me to get that meeting. To get a meeting with the governor of Alaska and then get access to the White House and to talk to them about their mineral needs um has been phenomenally easy. You know, I've talked to people at the highest level in

9:18 the White House. Um the governor of Alaska has been very supportive of our project and we're talking to him. I'm hoping to meet him in the next couple of months. So the US something's changed. You can get access to the people you need to if you have a project of significance. And I think you know that southeastern corner of Alaska for example, there's a huge amount of critical and rare earth minerals just there that haven't been explored and haven't been exploited. So we you know as an industry we can help with all of that and and I I really think that the US doesn't need to go too far. They've got the mineral deposits there. Yes, Venezuela. Yes, Greenland's going to add to that. uh you you know we've seen an agreement on critical minerals with the Australian government. So the you know that's working through the system as well. The other thing that we've seen is

10:04 the where we've let ourselves down in the west is that we haven't built enough internal supply and uh both supply and refining and smelting capacity. So we don't have the the ability that the Chinese do to really produce these rare earth elements that we so desperately need at the moment. uh China's China has dominated that and that needs to change and you see >> is that because China and the Soviet Union actually because like spending a lot of time in Russia you'll know that after the Soviet Union built a huge steel uh railroad infrastructure to get these things done to get they had I think they have more blast furnaces than anyone else on earth and I think in Europe there's only one or two left operating if at all has sort of the self-imposed restriction

10:51 in the even on manufacturing things like artillery shells. I think Europe, I think Russia's making four times more artillery shells >> than the entirety of NATO >> had sort of environmental restriction and restriction of local government and all this red tape crippled the ability of the West to compete with a resurgent China and to some extent now Russia when it comes to the military. But in China for sure, it's something you mentioned, something that's very interesting to me. I saw yesterday that China um you know has a bigger surplus now. It's a record surplus. You see places like China and Russia now building up massive gold reserves, right? But on the on the on the actual industrial side, they've been less restricted by centralized government in in this sort of in the business of

11:38 processing these metals, right? And and we're a long way behind in the West, right? >> We we are a long way behind in the West. And we we let that happen. you you you know to some what's happened in the west I I suppose people talk about this sort of suicidal empathy um you know you see that through our sectors to some extent in that you know we we've got so many interest groups that affect our outcomes you you know I'm the lead director and have been chairman of Skina resources we're building the the SK Creek gold mine up in the Talan in British Columbia just over the border from the US well you you know, US First Nations interests are expecting the company to consult with them. That's across a country boundary

12:24 and this has potential to delay projects. Uh we've seen uh you know the blocking of pipelines in Canada. So we just can't get our act together in that sense. Whereas China um you know to some extent steam rolls through things but it's been a tre and they're much longer term thinkers than we are as well and and so that's allowed them to really get the ascendancy when it comes to metal production and it puts us in a precarious position. Um we can't do it anymore. We we we have to have internal supply. I think the good news is that you've seen a very dramatic change uh globally from governments around the world in their attitude to mining. We were a dirty word and and indeed if you go back 50 years we had a checkered reputation as an industry. We fixed that

13:10 up. We do everything now to uh all environmental standards. You simply can't permit a project if you don't. But what we need are very clear timelines to do this if we're to compete with China. Um I I'll give you another tidbit of information. And this is sort of uh it's a potentially um you know a bit of breaking news if you like and but but I can tell you Shay that the renewable energy race has been run >> and it's been won and China decided the winner last year. So last year China installed 300 gawatt of new solar or photovalttaic solar energy capacity. That's the equivalent of about uh a typical nuclear power station produces

13:56 about 1 gawatt of energy uh peranom. So China's and and it'll cost you 10 to20 billion to build that. China's effectively installing six nuclear power plants worth of solar energy every week. So one you know Angela Merkel's trillion dollar >> hold on a second you said every week. >> Every week. Every week. So that's I I think that equates to about the entire Australian energy grid every month is being installed in photovalttaic capacity. So >> they're making all this stuff themselves in China, right? All the panels, all the and so this is they've got it they've got the whole they're selling the the the bottle of water, they're selling the code strip, they're selling everything. So they're they they own the space now,

14:43 right? >> They own the space. So we have to catch up on that front. We need to start building solar panels. they've decided the winner. It's quite clear that that solar cell production of energy is extremely uh you know efficient now. Um and you know Angela Merkel she her trillion dollar folly there into uh wind power in Germany has been an enormous disaster um >> and shutting down their nuclear I saw them blowing up a 10-year-old power station in Germany. I'm going what? So bizarre. Whereas the French across the border, you know, 96% of their grids powered by nuclear, all very low carbon. So, so France has found itself in a unique position there. And I can tell you the French government is encouraging mining. My mate John Robbins at the

15:29 Discovery Group's got a company there called Aquitane. Well, the the the the French government is begging them to take new licenses and help build projects and advance mining. So, that's a massive change. But the thing that's happening is that you know solar the race the renewable race has been won by solar energy. We need to get on board with that and that's going to be massive. We're going to need massive amounts more copper. We're going to need huge amounts of more silver. Um so that that's very positive and we have those in Mexico, in Canada, in the US. So we're in great shape on that front. We've just got to be allowed to get it out of the ground in a reasonable time frame. Uh and we'll compete effectively. You you you mentioned copper there and you're the boss of this Vizla copper which very kindly is sponsoring this

16:14 kind of series of talks and programs that were looking into the link between you know tangible things and you know ideas politically I think it's a very interesting space um the price of silver was something we talked about earlier has gone through the roof and you met you you predicted that to me bang on the money right uh that these commodities were going to go up up up and up and they don't tend to collapse in value, right? Once they rise, they tend to plateau. You don't really get these massive collapses in in gold and silver prices, do you? I mean, in your >> Not entirely true. You do. Silver silver has a tendency to really overshoot. Well, I think >> Are we there now? >> Oh, we're in the first quarter of this game or the first period. You know, I

17:01 there's a lot to play out. fact that China, you know, you know the solar panel demand takes up about 20% of the global market at the moment. Any of any of your viewers can put it into chat. GPT, what does solar demand do to um silver uh solar? >> So that's what's driving it >> into silver demand. So, you know, look out to the end of this decade, the solar industry will be using about 80% of all silver produced on the planet. So, what that says and and and we're not you you know, one of my companies, Visa Silver, we're in the middle of building the world's biggest silver mine at the moment. The current supply demand gap is about it's a 1.1 billion ounce perm uh and use. There's about 8 to 900

17:49 million ounces of primary production. So there's a big gap there of about 20% supply demand gap. Um we're building the biggest silver mine at Visa Silver at the moment that will fill that gap by 10%. So we need another >> globally >> we need globally we need another 10 of these and and you know our our silver discovery was the biggest discovery in silver in in probably the last 20 or 30 years. That's only going to make up that gap by 10%. So we can't even supply the world with enough silver at the moment. Imagine what happens at the back end of this decade. I think you're going to see 500, maybe $1,000 silver. Um, you know, we'll see much higher gold prices, 10, $20,000 per ounce. >> $500 to $1,000 an ounce silver. >> Absolutely. >> So, you heard it you heard it here first, guys, right? Just just to let you

18:35 know. >> Yeah. This silver demand that is is there now and coming is incredible. And there's no supply response. And that's the tail of the tape. This is one of the reasons why uh you know uh Donald Trump wants to get control of Greenland certainly for its its its natural minerals. Uh it it's it we need to put our foot on as many of these deposits around the world as we can as quickly as we can and bring them into production if we're to compete with China. It there's nothing else to do. That's what we have to do or we will be uh we'll be declining economies forever more. And you're seeing some strange things happen. I see I woke up to great news today. uh that uh uh one of the um I think it was Microsoft uh is uh in negotiations with Rio Tinto to buy

19:22 copper supply off their new copper mine in the USA. So you're seeing corporates delve right down into >> going direct to the market right straight into >> and we we've seen it before. Japanese and Korean um car manufacturers and steel mills. Uh Chinese steel mills have been very good at at at getting down and doing deals with um the mining companies, but you've never really seen, you know, AI technology companies doing that until right now. So, that's exciting news for the space as well. I think, you know, I mentioned up front there that we're about to go through the biggest mining boom the world's ever seen. There's going to be some great fortunes made and there's going to be, you know, potentially wars fought over these minerals that we we look for and produce. >> Well, and of course again, um, you know,

20:10 Vizler Copper, Vizla Silver, these are companies that you're in charge of, and there's still opportunities for people to get involved there, you know, in a whatever fashion you want to get involved. It's still something that's there for people. Uh but the growth in the demand for these things, we've actually seen it since the last time you and I spoke, the spike in silver and the link there which kind of defines what we're trying to talk about in this kind of discussion series is how you link tangible things and for example silver and it's silver the price of silver spiking because of the vast demand for solar uh power generation right how does Europe for example Now, I want to talk about Europe. Being a European, you being an an Aussie kind of Canadian,

20:55 you're kind of semi-European, right? That's where you're from, right? >> Uh I think you're a Patty. You're an Irishman. Really? >> Quarter Irish. Sh. Quarter Irish. >> Oh, there you go. Which part? As I my friend said, look, I'm I'm half Scottish. I said, I hope it's the bottom half where you keep your wallet because the last Scotsman the last Scotsman I went for a drink with, it was the top half. He just kept talking all night. But Europe now, right, geopolitically and geostrategically, it's kind of talked itself into irrelevance in some way. Right now, people talk about we got the wrong people in charge in Europe. You've got weak leadership, you know, Vanderly stuff. And the European Union, Europe is in a lot of trouble resource-wise, right? Because it doesn't really produce much, right? Um, regarding oil and gas, it's kind of

21:41 stuck. I mean, Norway is is a kind of a powerhouse. And if you look at Norway, which I'd like you to talk to me about, the stat oil, the state oil company transformed, you know, Norway as a kind of a as a state. It changed the whole vist of this country into a vastly powerful economic powerhouse really in the region. I wanted to talk about how does Venezuela become a Norway? How do you sort of transfer this wealth into the pockets of ordinary workers and people and bring stability, which I think is very important. >> But Europe is really outside of the room. Now, if you look at Ukraine, Russia, the Americans, people like Kil Demitriv and uh um the American Mr. Rubio and Steve Wickoff, these guys are talking, these are businessmen after all, talking about how to solve this

22:27 problem, to get past Ukraine, to get to a place where we can do business, where we can get sanctions dropped, where we can create wealth and stability. Right? The Europeans are outside the room. What's Europe doing wrong when it comes to resources? the fact that we we've kind of seen German heavy industry kind of collapse essentially. uh China's just become the biggest manufacturer of of automobiles on earth right the German industry which was heavy industry crop seammens all these leviathans where European quality was everything wherever you went I don't know in the mining industry it might still be the same in tomb making and stuff what's Europe doing wrong shouldn't shouldn't we be looking at liberalizing the mechanism by which we get these things out like even Ireland has a huge um uh sort of

23:13 territorial claim came out into the Atlantic and we don't even look out there. We don't we're not even out there exploring this stuff. What have we got to learn from people like China and Russia and potentially uh the United States now about getting out there and trying to create this wealth and sort of reindustrialize in some way? >> Yeah. Well, it's never too late, but I I think that, you know, Europe after sort of 30 or 40 years of of populist politics and uh climate changed driven policy um is in a terrible, terrible situation. Now, I think that the EU recognizes that. I it still flabbergast me that you would hand sovereignty and decision making of your country to a bunch of bureaucrats in in Brussels, but

23:59 but there you have it. Um, and and I don't think that you you you know the smelting and and Europe, I've got to say, is a little bit bipolar because you you look at Poland and Germany, you know, one of the biggest silver producers and copper producers in the world. their main assets are in that Kfasha region of Poland and Germany and they do and they build big mines there and I suppose Angela Merkel's misadventure into renewables um you know hasn't stopped the need to build uh coal fired power plants and major coal mines. So some of that's still happening and I think it's got to happen more and more if if you're back to get back onto an even keel on on that front. Um and uh and you know if one thing that comes out

24:45 of that's positive for Europe that comes out of Trump's actions is they recognize that they need to uh have uh more internal supply of these critical elements that are important to the life. You know I look around my office here nothing works without copper. We can't have we we can't have our way of life and indeed I think the bulk of the planet's population would fall off if we stop mining copper. Well, that's effectively what they've tried to do in Europe and a lot of nations around the world is inhibit our ability to >> and a lot of the moralizing around that, right? >> Moralizing that, you know, we won't dig it up here, but we'll we'll buy it from other countries which have absolutely zero regulation, right? Well, we're totally, you know, China continues to build uh coal fired power plants at a

25:32 huge rate of knots while cynically funding um >> and and here in Europe, we're we're sort of we've we've learned how to attach uh the bottle on a bottle of Coke. Check it out. This is what we've done. >> I see. >> But when you take the bottle, that doesn't fall off anymore. >> Oh, that's >> this is our innovation. >> Fantastic advance. Well, we've got paper straws here and that's very very helpful to everyone, >> you know. So, so yeah, it's it's a remarkable reality that I'm not sure what this bureaucracy in Europe is expecting to happen because >> you know, and even outside of Europe, if you look at the UK, you know, the UK, I'm invested in a company here that has uh major gas concessions in Hungary. Now, the founder of that company found huge um shale oil and gas resources in

26:19 the UK and then the UK went and burn u banned fracking. >> Oh, fracking. Yeah. So, and that's entirely ludicrous. The UK could become energy sufficient if you allow fracking again. And the US is, you know, they're re-entering, they're going through this second generation of fracking and fracking technology. Uh, and so the US is going to be tremendously uh oil sufficient, oil and gas and energy sufficient for many, many years to come. Well, you know, the eur Europe and and the UK are on notice. Start fracking. get out there and and you can do all of this work in a in an environmentally sensible and sensitive way that won't affect affect people too badly but it will ensure the silo of

27:05 thinking that in Europe you know this massive regulation and everything to do with the environment right which some of it is so uh you know it's valless right while as you say China is opening massive coal fired power stations belching out millions of tons then producing a lot of the heavy equipment and heavy industry uh products which are shipped into into Europe and it's as if it's like oil and gas that's coming from Russia via uh India at the moment into into Europe they've cut off the Nordstream somebody did who did who could it have been I could imagine right uh Nordstream has gone and remember it was Russian energy which really fueled the the boom in in uh European industry postwar as well it was cheap

27:52 easy to get to. They've cut that off. So, they've really politically and resource-wise resourced themselves reverse themselves into a corner. And you see with things like NATO where people say, "Oh, we've got NATO to rely on." Right now, we've got America, the biggest military NATO, the biggest funer of NATO, basically saying to another NATO country, "We're having it. You can sell it to us or we're just taking it." Y >> and you know and I know and the dogs in the street know up in Greenland that if Don wants it, Don has taken it. Now he can't do it with China and he can't do it with Russia, of course, because they're close to peer adversaries, nuclear powers, etc. But if you're not at the table, it seems that you're on the menu now. Surely that's the signal to a lot of these bureaucrats in in in

28:38 uh in Europe to actually make sure that you can you know you can survive on your own stores over the winter. It's a basic human thing that we should be able to go out into the woods bring back the stuff for the winter provide. Right now, Europe is relying on gas coming in from LG from the States. Very expensive, right? The Americans are delighted, of course. And and meanwhile, there's no actual plan to invest in exploration because of this ludicrous crushing of uh entrepreneurialism. People like you aren't really allowed. You should guys should be getting brought in with your team and say, "Okay, let's go get it." The Irish government should be, in my view, paying you to get out into uh the Atlantic. There's this vast Atlantic. It's it's many many times bigger than the actual territory we have as an island and nobody's out there looking at

29:25 this stuff. We don't even know what's out there. But people presume that there's a huge amount of gas and oil out there. But because we've got this sort of libtard elite government, pro- European even the word oil, you know, would make people like have some sort of panic attack and breathe into a paper bag, you know. >> Yeah, it's a dirty word. And and you know, countries that can't get their head around that and get on board are going to get left behind. Ireland, you know, has some tremendous natural resources. You've got some major VMS and zinc and copper deposits uh across the country. I've been asked to invest in a few of those and I've avoided it till now cuz I have limited faith in the EU zone and and Ireland's government to support development of these things. But you're right, they're there that, you know, there's no shortage of natural minerals resources in Europe that they

30:11 could harness if uh if if they could get their act together, but they aren't can't. And and you see that with Trump now. He's got his act together on oil and gas and mineral resources. And so I think you're going to see the US go through a phase over the next 5 or 10 years of ascendancy and and you know this US energy dominance council is going to have its way. >> Yeah, it looks like they're going to do what they said on the tin. And again, if Donald Trump, you know, uh, you know, people are saying as well, just on a finish on a political note, that, you know, this could all change if a Democrat is reelected. But if it's having an impact on the economy and on jobs, it's very hard for a Democrat government to reverse to to rewind some of these impacts as well, right? If these minds are open and if people are

30:58 uh making revenue and uh it's having an impact on the ground for the ordinary American worker in manufacturing and stuff, very difficult to reverse back out of it. Not that they probably won't try. Craig, look, we're we're over the half an hour and I wanted to keep it to half an hour because I don't really want to edit this because I think it's a great conversation. Uh but look, Craig, thanks again for joining me. Uh everybody watching, you can check out the links which I'll post with this for Vizla Copper, Vizla Silver, which this man is in charge of and you can you can hear straight from me. You know, he knows what he's talking about. Uh so do check them out. They've been very kind to me to uh help me understand this stuff and to sponsor the show. And this is going to be one of many many discussions we're going to have linking the reality of how business and finance

31:44 and materials and resources are so critical the to every conflict every alliance and the real emerging global uh reality that's emerging in front of our eyes. So until the next time from Craig, >> you can say good night or good morning. >> Thanks very much. I'm going to quote you on that one. If you're if you're not at the table, you're on the menu. That's uh >> It's not mine. I stole it. Don't worry. >> Pleasure. Thank you very much, mate. >> Yeah. Okay. So, until next time, everybody. Thanks for watching. Check out the links below and we'll talk to you on the next one. Take care.