The Rani Returns - But Not The One You Were Expecting | Doctor Who Villainess on Audio

0:00 This is Sally Novette. You are listening to The Sirens of Audio. This is a spoiler warning. The podcast is almost upon us, and you're really not going to want this episode spoiled. It is amazing. This is the big one. Make sure you subscribe to the channel as soon as you can on YouTube, Rumble, and wherever you listen to your podcasts. What was I going to say? I had a complete mental blank then, Phillip. Hang on. Hang on. I was Look at my world. I'm having a worse mental blank than you right now. I had something really profound to say. Oh, that it's just come back to me. Yeah. Right. I'm just going to go to the L before I pee my pants.

0:51 [Music] Good day audio files. This is the sirens of audio. The show that explores the universe of Doctor Who and other cult TV in the audio medium. I'm Dwayne. And I'm Phillip. Good day, Dwayne. Good day, audio files. Phillip, good to see you. How you doing? Good to see you, too. You're sounding very awkward today.

1:38 Am I? You are. Yeah, no worries. Well, there's a there's a there's an opening potentially for a new doctor on television, and I want the first Aussie Boen Doctor Who. So, I'm just putting it out there. Uh, we've got to have a label on him. So, Oussie Boen, Doctor Who. I've got I've even got the hoodie. There you go. I can do it. So, um, yeah, looking forward to that when it comes out. We've got the cartoon one coming anyway, don't we? We've got CBB's. So, I'm looking forward to that. Another medium to touch into. That'd be good. Yeah. Be interesting. Um, I mean, we had it with Star Trek, but I guess Star Trek was aiming for the same audience that the TV series was going for, do you think? Or were they going for a younger audience, do you reckon? I think they were a younger audience, the cartoon.

2:27 Okay. Wasn't very good. Interesting stuff happening in the television landscape these days. But today is a is a great show. We're going to be uh well, we'll see how we go. Philip, we always say we're going to do a shorter show, but it never works out that way. But we'll see if we can do it this time. be talking about the we're going to be talking about the Rani on audio because not only has the Rani recently appeared in Doctor Who on television, she appeared in the classic series as well in two stories. So, uh, so two episodes in classic, sorry, three stories in classic Doctor Who. Three. Don't you discre dimensions in time. That's still canon. Okay. I've heard that that's now canon. I'm not. Sorry, I'm not counting that.

3:13 Okay. Two slash3 stories in classic. Um uh two episodes, two full episodes, well one and a half episodes in uh in Disney who and uh there's been a couple of big Finnish audios too that we've that we're going to talk about. There's also been an earlier one that um Ko Mara appeared in for BBV years ago. I don't know if you've ever heard that one, but I might mention that as we go through. Um, so we're going to be talking about uh the Rani Elite and Planet of the Rani, the two Big Finnish Rani stories. Going to be focusing on those throughout the episode today. Um, they were part of the Big Finnish monthly range and uh we'll dive into them a little bit and uh I've had a

3:58 recent listen to them, you've had a recent listen to them. We'll see what we what we thought on our sec well second or third listen. We've gone back to listen to these probably the first time for me since uh since they came out a few years back and it's been probably 10 years since they came out too. So, uh with that in mind, well, first of all, before we jump down the rabbit hole, let's talk briefly about our live events, Philip. They're they're rapidly approaching. They are indeed. So, in no time at all, Carolanne Ford, star of the new series of Doctor Who and unfortunately um scenes cut with Doctor Who, which I'm hoping we'll be talking about because yes, she was supposed to be I don't know whether I'm not sure how official this is, but I'm going to say anyway, she was supposed to be in the final episode and she had some scenes which sadly got cut though. We'll talk a lot more about that on the day event.

4:44 So, if you want to find out more about what was in the scenes, what we lost cuz they totally changed the ending. in the last 20 minutes was refilmed and um all that had been planned for that end of that story was all gone which is tragic for Carolanne but anyhow uh Caroline will be coming to Australia in October so you can see her in Sydney or Melbourne um so that's our big thing and also um selling for people who are into black 7 and even if you're not getting into Blake 7 will be out in November so two amazing women coming out to Australia October and November yeah very very much looking forward to that. You can get all the details for those events at sirensofaudio.com. Uh just check out the events page there and you can uh get your tickets and uh make sure how's the VIPs going? They're

5:31 pretty much close to capacity in in Melbourne. Um yes, I'm I'm probably going to increase Melbourne slightly. Um because yeah, Melbourne Melbourne has already sold out its VIP allowance. So the VIP has gone. So but I'm thinking we we're going to change things up a bit. We're planning to have a buffet on the Sunday night at the venue for the VIPs. So, it's going to be a a more um casual but opener space to provide a lot more opportunity to talk to Caroline and it will let a few more people come as well because the the demand for the VIPs has been very large. And Sydney is just about sold out as well. Okay. Interesting. Good stuff. No, it's a it's a good problem to have, isn't it, Philip? It is a good problem to have. I'm just trying to work out how to best manage it.

6:17 Very good. All right, that's our live events. Uh before we get on to the main topic of our podcast today, there's one thing to do, Philillip. I've already mentioned it. Come with me. Let's jump down the rabbit hole. [Music] [Applause] [Music] Okay, Philillip, we are down the rabbit hole and since this episode is mostly about the Rani, I want to ask you a question. You would have to admit that on television, The Rani hasn't had the greatest of stories. Um, but the character has always sparked the imagination of the fans. So, what do you think, Philip? Do you think the Rani is a character that's had more potential

7:05 than we've actually ever seen on screen, even in the books and on audio? or is the Rani just a carbon copy of the master or Missy? Um well certainly neither of that. Um I think the danger with bringing the Rani back in the new series was she could have just become a carbon copy of Missy and I think they avoided that. I do think they managed to keep some of some of the intrinsic qualities of who she is. The audios did it better. No surprises there but I think they managed to maintain a lot of who she was in the new series. So she's not Missy in terms of the master. No, she's not the master either. The master is evil and just has wicked plans and does evil things. The ran is not evil. She's immoral and she's all about the

7:51 science and about the learning without caring about other people. So I think that because she's got a slight So do you mean do you mean amoral rather than immoral? Oh, amoral. That's the word. I was Thank you. That's better. Amoral. Yes. The masters would be immoral. Um she's amoral. she's just she doesn't care about the consequences of what she's doing. What what matters to her is just getting the result she wants to learn. And so it really is a it's a view of science gone mad, which is it's quite interesting actually on Doctor Who to have someone a character like that. Um and I think they they dress up a bit pretty well, I think, in the TV series. Um yeah, I I I mean I think the Mark of the Ran is probably one of the better Colin Baker shows. So I I still I still really enjoy Mark of the Ronnie. I think it collapses in the last 15 minutes in

8:37 terms of it doesn't quite know how to end and so it just sort of falls apart but up until that point I think it's quite you know involved and intriguing and interesting and and I think the Ronnie and Anthony Amy play each other actually really well which is nice um and I think Colin Baker who's such a big figure plays nicely off as well and you know I time the Ronnie I still don't mind I mean it's got some awful moments but I still think it's got some really strong moments as well and I think once again the Ronnie playing up to Mel and you know dressing like her and pretending to be her. He's just very very funny and you know does does um is it camped up over the top? Yes, definitely is just such an over the top performance but I think it works in in that sort of context and so I I actually I don't mind some of the writing and I

9:22 still think Dimensions in Time is a lot of fun and yes it's shocking but I I always considered it cannon anyway. It never it never occurred to me that it wasn't canon, but they're definitely in the new season. They put some images of that into the show. Ketamara, I think, is I think what two things that make it work is Ketto Mara. I think Katie is just an amazing performer and she's stunning to look at, intriguing to look at. She's an intriguing and you know, interesting, you know, beautiful woman, but intriguing how she looks. And of course, she went on a big stardom, I think, with Dynasty. And even though she'd been very well known already in the UK, I think Dynasty or Dynasty for our American listeners really drove her to new heights. So when she came back, that sort of big name and star, she just she just has star power and you just it it always feels like she's got star power.

10:09 And I think the other thing that makes the Ronnie work so well is it's the first female time lord. And yes, we've had Thalia we'd had and you know, Flavia, but there was sort of wishy-washy nothing. So suddenly we have a strong female time lord and I think that just impressed people and you know it Doctor Who took a long time to start you know reaching out and recognizing different sorts of characters and you know you have seasons of just you know Sarah Jane Smith being the only female in her story. So when they start to explore sort of female strong characters I think it works really well for that reason and Ketamara is just spectacular. What why do you think she's so wellknown and popular? Dwayne, you must have an opinion. You've thought about it more than I have.

10:54 Well, I think Kate Mara is great in the role as the character. I love her both in Mark of the Rani and Time of the Rani. They're quite different performances. I feel perhaps because she is when she's in disguise, she's doing different things. So, in Mark of the Ronnie, she's just disguised as an unknown person. In Time of the Rainy, she's for half the story, she's disguised as Mel. Uh, which makes it intriguing. But then she gets into this pretty cool uh campy late '8s costume at the end which is which is really which is really stereotypical of the time I think. Uh but still really cool. Um I I never liked Mark of the Rani as you know next to the rest of season 22 but I've come to appreciate it more

11:41 and more over the years and I have a I have a great fondness for it now. Um, as far as the Rani goes now, I think, um, Archie Punjabi, I think that's her name. Um, I think she was perfectly cast as the Rani. Um, I think she looked great. She sounded great. Uh, I I'm I'm not a huge fan of the bio regeneration, so I thought even Anita Dobson was interesting as the Rani. I would have liked to have seen Anita Dobson as the Ronnie, but she sort of took a backseat when Archie came out uh for the rest of the time when she was the Ronnie, she was kind of subservient to to that Ronnie. Um, but I think there was uh I

12:29 as much of a of a non-fan as I am of Disney who uh I really liked the look of Archie as uh as this latest Rani. I thought I thought it was superb and it it actually it actually got me looking to a bit more of the episode than uh than some of the other episodes because of her alone. So yeah, it's a shame that she was done away with so quickly. Oh yeah, ridiculous. But the nods to Kato Mari in terms of the color of the costume and the hairstyle and there were some lovely nods and respect of what had come before while still owning it for themselves. And that I mean that that to me is always the strength of regenerations is that you can actually you should be able to see the previous doctors or masters or ranies in the performance. Um, and then to me that's

13:14 probably that's probably the issue I've had the most with the last couple of doctors is that we've actually lost the doctor of what the essence of the doctor I think has been lost a bit in the last couple of um regenerations where you can you can very strongly see see it through different by lines um as and I don't think the issue wasn't Jod was a woman because I have no issues with the doctor being a woman but I do think some way along the line she lost some of the key moments of what the doctor was and should be And and actually if I'm right G both Jodie and Shooty part of the issue was neither of them decided to go back and look at previous doctors. They didn't want to know what other doctors had done. They just wanted to rely on the scripts they were given. But without actually doing that research, I think that they've missed out on actually seeing what did other

14:00 doctors have, how what what was the essence to their character, what what they carry through. And I think that was that's been lost in in those two two doctors in many ways. Whereas, you know, Matt Smith knew nothing about Dr. Hub. went back and researched it and looked at it and decided he loved Patrick Troutton and and so started trying to bring through the essence of some of Patrick Troutton's performances in him and that's why he was such a great doctor. Yeah. The other thing I liked about Kado Mara in particularly Mark of the Rani, you don't see this so much in in time, but when well because when the doctor and the master were there, she just found them an absolute nuisance. You know, they were just getting in her way and she wasn't trying to uh knock either one of them off. She just wanted to get on with what she was doing. Uh

14:45 but these two were just, you know, uh were were just an annoyance to her. And I thought that was a part of the Rani's character that um should flow through all all of that. That's part of her amorality, I suppose. Yeah. I guess as a compared to the master, the master's a psychopath. She's a sociopath maybe. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, we think I mean the Ring successfully for hundreds of years been going to Earth doing what she needed to do, just disappearing, not causing a fuss, not causing much of an issue. And you know, okay, so people are losing some sleep and getting cranky and having a few riots. But she she was coming and going throughout all of history without the doctor even realizing she was there. And then the master turns up and mucks the whole thing up in one go with his stupid plans. So I think you know she's she's all about getting on with herself and not worried about trying to get revenge

15:31 or anything. That's not that's not her play at all which which I guess you know dimensions of time is slightly out of character because she is trying to get revenge and she know she knows but she's still got an plot hasn't she trying to get one of every species. Oh no. Great character. Very good. All right. What about you, our dear audience members? What do you think of the Rani as a character? Let us know your thoughts in the comments below or send us some feedback. You can send us an email if you like. Love to hear from you. Right, let's climb up out of the rabbit hole. We are going to talk about the first of the Big Finnish Rani releases and that was main range number 194. It was a while before she came along and that is uh called the Rani Elite. I'll read a blur. The TARDIS

16:16 arrives in the cage. Not a trap, but the College of Advanced Galactic Education, one of the most prestigious academic institutions in colonized space. Not a trap, or is it? The doctor's here to receive an honorary degree in moral philosophy. But there's something rotten at the heart of the medical facility. Someone is operating on the students. Someone without a conscience. someone with access to a cyidelian brain scanner, a technology that hasn't been invented yet. That someone is the ruthless timelord scientist known as the Rani in her new incarnation. But will the Doctor and Perry recognize the Ranie's hand before her trap is sprung? Coming soon from Big Finnish

17:03 Productions. So many lives. So many people. The Ronnie elite. Incredible. This booth is actually smaller on the inside. The doors won't open. If you hang on just a moment. Doctor, what are you not now? Genius at work. That shouldn't have happened. I have to say you've been rather a disappointment that very soon this will all be over for you. Thank you for the gun, Doctor Perry. But that's just it. You're not Perry, are you? You see, you do know me after all.

17:48 I knew you would. Spit it out, girl. I can see it's on the tip of your tongue. The Ronnie subscribers get more at bigfinish.com. The Rani Elite, the facts and the trivia. This is number 194 in the monthly range and written by Justin Richards. Recorded on the 28th to 29th of May in 2014 at the Moo Studios, released in December 2014. Starring Colin Baker as a sixth doctor, his companion Nicola Bryant as Perry Brown, and then Siobhan Redmond appearing for the first time as Lani. Also starring Andrew Bone, Charlie Morton, Mike Noble, and Becky Wright. The director of this adventure was Ken Bentley. The script editor was Alan Barnes. Sound design and

18:34 music by Andy Hardwick. Executive producers Nicholas Briggs and Jason Hey Ellery. Producer was Dave Richardson. And the cover art Anthony Lamb. The Rani was a Pip and Jane Baker creation originally appearing in the Colin Baker show The Mark of the Rani. She would later appear twice more. first in the seventh doctor's first story time of the Rani and then in the 30th anniversary special dimension in time rani means uh king or ruler in Hindu I think it's Hindu she would big Finnish had been in discussion with Kate Omaro to bring the rani back and Kate was very keen to come back unfortunately she was also um very sick with cancer and realized that she wasn't going to survive to be able to make the stories

19:20 that had been written for her in March 2014, 2 months before this first story was recorded, she passed away through cancer at age 74. When she was ill though, and knowing she was dying and she'd been told to be finished, she said to them that she still wanted the stories to be written and she wanted them to be produced. Um, so she encouraged them to recast the Rani and to still tell the Ronnie stories. She had become a real big fan of the fans um and wanted to support the fans in what they were doing. So cast as the Rani was Siobhan Redmond who was born in Scotland in 1959. The Rani Elite is the first big Finnish audio drama to feature the Rani expanding her presence in the Doctor Who universe before on television. Leaving the Rani imprisoned at the end of the story mirrors the third doctor

20:06 and the master and the story of the demons and will pick and will be be picked up again in a very similar way. And that's some of the facts and the trivia we'll talk about more as we go. Thank you, Philillip. Now, it's just it's certainly a shame Kate Omara wasn't able to do this. It would have been great to hear what what she would have done with this, but as always, Big Finnish adapts to these things and they adapted very well. Siobhan Redmond, I think, was fantastic as the Rani. Very different to Kom Mara. Distinctively different, I thought. And this is one of the rare occasions where a villain sort of meets the doctor out of uh out of timeline. So, we got that more when Riverong came along, but this is one of those occasions where it's the future Rani meeting an earlier incarnation of

20:53 the Doctor uh well in her timeline after Time and the Rani, but before the sixth doctor regenerates in Time in the Rani. So, yeah. And it's actually a little scene because she sort of says, "I was I was expecting the little little Scottish one or whatever she says." And it's almost like he says spo I don't think he does say spoilers, but it's almost he stops her because he he mustn't know his future either. And so there was a little fun little interplay there which was just a charming little scene which I hadn't remembered from the first time I listened to it. Yeah. So this is also part of it was a very this is 194 in the monthly range. So it was a very very busy time in the monthly range. There were these trilogies were really dense jam-packed. This was the older Perry trilogy. So it had started the story previously with the widow's assassin. So

21:38 Perry post marriage to Yakanos had started traveling with the sixth doctor again. So, uh, this is the second story in that set. The next one will be called Shield of the Jotton, I think. Was it is this is this the Perry who' been married to Yukarnos or was this the Perry who appeared in the Pescatons who had gone back to Earth? It's the one that's married to Yukanos. Oh, okay. Yarnos. Okay. And as you said, I I haven't listened to this for 10 years until I listen because Widow's assassin was Yeah. The widow's assassin was her uh as as Yukarnos's widow. Okay. In that story. I've forgotten that. I need to go back and listen to the whole trilogy cuz I really enjoyed this so much more than I was expecting to. And and so with that in mind, you can hear Perry being much older, she's much

22:24 more playing her own age in this. So it would have been uh easier for Perry and probably refreshing for a change, not have to pitch her voice up all the time to do the the the really young Perry. Um so I found that really interesting. um the the the minds that the Rani is trying to use in her plan to uh to manipulate chaos theory or whatever it is she was doing still not very clear to be um reminded me very much of time and the Ry so I'm wondering if Pip and Jane had any say in in the script uh and whether they were trying to tie that into Time and the Ronnie at all but that's what what I thought of when uh in relation to the story. No, I mean I wouldn't think so. I mean the thing about big Finnish and people you know writers like Justin Richards is they would have examined the material that came beforehand and actually paid attention to it and deliberately tried

23:10 to say well what elements of this character do we like what what elements of the plot do we like and and writing the character to actually still be consistent. I mean it's one of the thing I think the new series has lost is that they've lost the skill of actually looking back and saying what are the elements that make these characters so strong. um you know the the Omega in the last episode. I mean what an utterly utterly ridiculous thing that was. So if you liked him um go back and watch the three doctors actually see what the Omega should be like. Um even Ark of Infinity. Thanks. Even even Arc Infinity is 100 times better. I I must admit I was really hoping that Peter Davidson might appear on the top of the steps when the door opened in the I mean there was so much good stuff they could have done if they wanted to bring back Omega. Um, but one thing that Big Finnish does and and and I will say that with the Ran

23:57 in the new series, they did try and capture that a lot of that essence of who she was. I think they did better, certainly better than Omega or SUK or some of the other disasters they've had recently. But with this these two CDs, these two stories, they really tried to capture what's what is about the Ronnie that makes her special, what were her skill set, and really you could you could see the Ronnie doing all these things. There's nothing out of character with what the Ronnie would be doing and and putting herself into a university, experimenting on the on the students, just seeing them as nothing more than lab rats for her experimentation. Um, the way she manipulates and controls other people, it was just all there. So, it was just straight into such a believable characterization of the Ronnie.

24:42 Did you catch the line with the $6 doctor saying, um, leave the girl plainly, it's me you want. So there's just another call back to uh the future story time and time in the Ronnie. So yeah, uh that was pretty cool. Um what did you what did you think of Siobhan Redmond as as the Ronnie? What was your opinion? Yeah, really great. I mean I I did a bit of research into Son before we did this just to see what she'd done in the past and she's had a huge television movie and stage career. Um and so very she's not really well known in Australia. I don't think I there was not there there was a lot of stuff on the list of things she'd done which are big in Australia or somebody has come to Australia but none nothing was sort of particularly big but she's

25:27 just gives such a very strong assured performance so so Colin Baker needs strong characters to perform against him and the thing that Siobhan does so well is she is this very strong confident character and I think the fact they had the older Perry too actually gave her strength in character And so all the scenes that the the main three had to play off each other are mature, sensible adults but very different views on the world and being very forceful in their views. So I actually I really like I really love the strength of all all the the top three characters in that some of the you know Mana's characters are the weak ones and and required to be weak for the character weak in conscience weak in you know be able to stand up for the Ronnie but with you know Nicholas performance Colin's performance

26:13 Siobhan's performance the three of them are just you know heads clashing um which really kept you engaged in such strong language Justin did a brilliant job writing this he like really strong characterization ations. I thought, yeah, I I I don't remember enjoying the story as much when I listened to it 10 years ago as it did this time. Maybe it's the fact I was listening because I need to talk about it a bit more, but I really did enjoy how it how it played out, how how the story unfolded. I thought the the the beat points and the and the um cliffhers all worked really well. Yeah. Um, now I mentioned before that that that there has been an audio Rani story before that was with BBV. I just thought I'd mention that. That was called The Rani Reaps the Whirlwind. And

27:01 my memory of it is I've got it somewhere, but I haven't listened to it for a fair while, but I didn't really enjoy it that much. Um, I wasn't a huge fan. Have you heard it, Philip? Uh, you know what? I think I listened to it long long ago, but it's it it leads straight on from the events of Time and the Rani. So it's got it's got the Tet traps in it. So I think it they go back to the Tet Traps planet, you know, where they've and and it's sort of set there. Um so this would have been a great um uh a great return for K Mara to to the role. I think uh it certainly would have been to my memory. Uh forgive me if I'm if I'm remembering it worse than it is, but yeah, this would have been a much better story for for Kom Mara to be in. But as far as Siobhan goes, I loved her

27:49 performance. The only maybe, it's not unfortunate in as much as that it doesn't suit her in the role, but her slightly Scottish accent. And when this came out, it was 2015, so very uh heavy heavily uh sort of playing against Missy on the television at the time with the Hersh Scottish accent. So, we've got two female Time Lord villains with the Scottish accent going. So people might have been uh comparing uh the Rani to Missy at the time and I say unfairly. It's just a coincidence I think that they're using the Scottish accent there. So um yeah I don't think I actually thought about that. When did Missy first appear? She would have been 2014. 2014 first Kapali season. So that would have just

28:36 happened the year before. That was 10 years ago. 11 years ago. It's a it's gone quick, hasn't it? Oh, yes. We're getting old, Philip. We're getting old. All right. Um, okay. So, at the end of this story, um, she gets imprisoned and, uh, then it sort of flows onto the events of Planet of the Rine, the next story. So, uh, the the story itself, um, it's not it's not Big Finnish's greatest story. It's not their greatest masterpiece, I don't think, but um I think it does a a good job to keep the the story going for the characters to play off. And you mentioned it perfectly, Philip, that it's those three characters, Dr. Perry and the Ronnie, all together that really make this one

29:21 uh a must listen from me. Yeah, it works well in the trilogy. Yeah, it's it's it's a really good strong listen. Very enjoyable. It's quite cheap at the moment too, just in terms of I don't know whether it's on Spotify or not, but in terms of the first one under under200. Um, so it must be about £8 in the UK, $16 here. So it's not not a hugely expensive one. And it's a really I think you actually try to get as a subscription. I think you still buy them in six and 12 and save a lot of money that way cuz this this was part of this was this was when I was subscribing. I'm trying I'm trying to work out but I've still got actually there actually I must have this on CD in hard form still cuz I got that till over 200. Um and if you were subscribed at the time u you with this release you would have got a little

30:06 bonus but I will save that for my recommendations cuz that's what I listen to as Okay, I will give it away then. Very good. All right, let's go on to the next one. And that was uh about 12 months later. 10 months this uh say again 10 months later about yeah it was December was the last one. This is October now the following year. Okay. Very good. All right. Planet of the Rani. Maya Simeia Goria was a quiet planet. An ancient world of bucolic tranquility until the Rani arrived with ideas of her own. She planned to create a race of new gods. gods that she should keep on her leash. But those plans went horribly

30:52 wrong. Now she languishes in the high security of the Tekk Aurora Penitentiary, consigned there by her archeneemy and old student colleague, the doctor. But the Rani, always resourceful, ever calculating, knows things about the doctor's past that he would rather forget. She wants revenge, even if it takes a hundred years. And then she has other unfinished business. The ruins of Maya Simeia Goria await. Coming soon from Big Finnish Productions. Doctor Who, Planet of the Rani. She's a tyrant. But she's a prisoner here. Yes. Death to the Rani on the walls. Well, someone's been having a riot. Well, she is still here. Doctor,

31:41 not out on the loose causing your own inimitable brand of mayhem across the galaxy. And that woman, she was there, the Ronnie. Next, you'll be telling me she's completely reformed. Where is she? What are you doing here? Where's the doctor? I insist you take us to him now. And the Ronnie, wherever she is. Surely you haven't let her go. Don't fret, doctor. I'm still here. Big finish. We love stories. Plan of the Ronnie, the facts and the trivia. Number 205 in the monthly adventure range, written by Mark Platt. Released October 2015 and recorded the Moch Studios. Starring Colin Baker, still as a sixth

32:27 doctor, but this time accompanied by his new companion, Constance Clark, played by Miranda Raisin. once again starring Siobhan Redmond as the rani but also starring many big Finnish stalwarts, Timothy Bentik, James Joyce, Olivia Pulle um and then Chris Porter and Dominic Thorburn directed by Ken Bentley and the script editor was Alan Barnes. Sound design and music by Richard Fox at Fox Yassen Studios and Lauren Yassen at Fox Yassen Studios. They're mouthfuls. The producer was again David Richardson, executive producer Nicholas Briggs, Jason Heg illery and the cover this time by Tom Webster. We've changed design slightly and it looks pretty good too. This story was the second story to feature the Rani as portrayed by Siobhan Redmond. And once again, most the action

33:14 will take place on the planet we first heard of, and I'm not going to try and pronounce it. Dwayne just did that. Um, in Mark the Rani. This picks up from the previous script. Uh it's now decades later but it's still the rani in prison but like the master and the third doctor when imprisoned on earth uh she was soon running the place this prison and contin continuing in her old ways. Mark Platt returned as a he's a regular writer for big finish but also one of the few writers who wrote for the original television series and Olivia Ple would appear as Mrs. Peele in the Avengers story and this is some of the facts and and the trivia. All right, Philillip, there was one fact on the Rani Elite that I a very important fact that I forgot to mention that I wanted to bring out. It relates to you talking

34:00 about the writers bringing in elements from other media uh particularly the TV stories, but in in the case of the Rani Elite, there was uh mention of the Rani's name, which was from the novels in the '9s, the original Wilderness Years. Maybe we've got Wilderness Years 2 coming up, who knows? Um there's a group called the Deca which I think first appeared in Gary Russell's divided loyalties. Um and the Deca was a group of 10 rebellious acolytes in Praidonian Academy. So Drax was one. Then theta Sigma was the first doctor. Uh Koshi Mortmus who is the monk the meddling monk. Um Ushas who is the rani. Vanel, who we know very well as a big Finnish

34:46 car character, uh Ralon, Jelpax, uh Millennia, and Magnus. So, three three was it three of those uh three of those acolytes we've seen on TV in in their in with their other names. The master's one of them, too, I is the master one of them. Is the master one of them as well? No. No. Oh, school with the doctor. He was at school with the doctor. Okay. Yeah, but this is this is the 10 the Dec. They're a group called the Deca. Okay. Um and so they were mentioned in the Rani elite, but her name also is mentioned in Planet of the Rani as well. Ushas. Yes. Um Usha or Ushas. Ushas. Not sure of the correct pronunciation. I

35:31 can't remember. Uh but this planet of the Rani is interesting because this is also um a middle story. I think uh the Ronnie Elite was a middle story in the the the older Perry trilogy. This is the middle story in the uh Constance Clark trilogy. The first Constance Clark trilogy surrounded by a couple of fantastic stories. Crisscross I think often comes up as one of the scariest big finishes too. Oh no, it's not Chris Cross. That's Static I'm thinking of. That was later a later trilogy, but uh Crisscross was a good entrance for Constance Clark as well. uh played by the amazing uh Miranda Raisin. Now, this story to me, you know, I've spoken to you before, Philillip, about some of

36:18 the issues I have with Mark Platt scripts. I find them very difficult sometimes to visualize. I found that say sorry complicated. Um yeah, and it's often left open to interpretation. There's things in there which I I thought I don't quite know what I'm seeing. So, I looked at the cover. Thankfully, what I was I could I could sort of connect what was on the cover to what I was hearing as well with one of the things. It's also kind of set in two parts cuz we've got part one which is set in the prison that the Ronnie has taken over. Yeah, she's become the governor of this prison and she's waiting for the doctor to come along so she can take off with and then captures captures um constants and goes back to my Simagoria.

37:04 Um but yeah, interesting interesting story. What what was your thoughts on this story maybe as as compared to the the Rani Elite? Yeah, my I once again it's the first time I've listened to it in 10 years and really enjoyed it again. Um the first episode in particular in the prison I really enjoyed. I think. Yes. They get you in. Yes. So, I was really caught up very well. In fact, I probably would have liked two episodes in the prison before we went to her planet. I guess it's called Planet of the Ryan. So, I guess the bulk of it had to be set there. But that first episode on the prison planet, bit by bit realizing how much power the Ronnie had, how much control she had, what she was up to. It it was very reminiscent of um the sea devils and you know Roger Dagardo in

37:52 control of the prison even though he's you know prisoner being visited by being visited by the doctor. Um bit by bit you work out the fact no actually no he he's you know he's in control and in this case she was in control. So I really enjoy that first episode. There was a lot of stuff in the the second part I really enjoyed as well when we went back to her planet. I guess I once again visualizing what was going on with these suits, these metal suits and and who was inside them and it was very worldbuilding in a very interesting way, which is what Mark Plat likes to do. So talking about stone canopies and all kinds of bits and pieces. Um, I think I was I was I was actually driving while I was listening to this. So, I was actually able to really take time to try and think through and visualize what

38:38 Mark was saying because he certainly creates a very intriguing world, but you do have to work for it because it's not he always does. Yeah, he he he nearly always does. So, it's not it's not straightforward. And there was a lot of very interesting concepts with the frozen people and I said the stone canopy they're walking across and the bugs underneath and it was an intriguing and big world he he created here which is what he always does. Yeah, I found some of the sound design um a little bit irritating. The the the cockroaches, the um the the vocals on that. I know what it was trying to do, but I just found it difficult to hear. Um, and it wasn't until after I've been listening for a

39:24 while, I went, I wonder if those these things are on the cover, so I can see them a bit better. And once I saw them on the cover, they're they're there in one corner of the cover. Um, it doesn't it it on first glance, you can't see it, but on the top right corner, you get to see the artist's impression of of of the cockroaches. So, um, that's that kind of helped me a little bit. Um, plus I'm far I'm far better these days listening to things with my headphones and I listened to some of this today while I was driving in the car and I so I missed a lot. I find that the ambient noise around me detracts a lot from from audio drama these days. So never do that with a Mark Platt script. Dwayne, you should know better than that. Um, so that that was a I don't know. Does Mark write too complex for

40:10 well he so people still don't understand Ghost Light however many years later and is he more of a novel writer? Should he be writing novels rather than than stuff that's restricted to a shorter time limit? He's just so complex. It's all there. Everything's there but you just have to like you said you've got to work really hard to get everything out of it. But isn't isn't that the value of Doctor Who or should be is the fact that it can look and sound so different and you know and at times there's just a straight shoot them up bang story. Other times it's something complex and deep and you have to puzzle and try to think well what was going on there and did I understand that? And you know, let's face it, we keep talking about Ghost Light because, you know, there were so many elements in it and any Mark Platt

40:55 script we're going to talk about and you know, he pulls out something like Spare Parts, which is, you know, an absolute classic and always will be. Any Doctor Who story in any medium, Spare Parts is going to be one of the best stories ever created for Doctor Who. So, he he does come out with ones like that. I just he just enjoys the the word. Um, I I mean part of part of the issue kind of I say with the cover and I think one of the things the big fish did was really good was to get rid of that whole sidebar with the doctor's face cuz you talk about the the fact the creatures in the top right corner. There's another there's another creature that's actually underneath Colin Baker's face but there's this big dang heavy title bar running down the side of it. So you can see it's been designed you can see it's sticking out I completely missed that. Yeah. So, it's sticking out both sides. And so, the the best view of this creature is covered by this unnecessary

41:44 bar down the center. So, I must admit when they when the cover design got rid of that extra look, it was certainly a big step forward because we still really can't quite see what it looks like, but there's obviously a whole one being created there, which they then whacked over that tuttle bar, which is, you know, bad bad shame of the design. But Mark PL, yeah, he's he's you got to you got to work for him. I don't think it's a bad thing having to work for for an author. And if you've got the time, I'm I this would really if I had the time, I'd like to if this would really go back and listening again. Um I really feel like I need I need to do another second listen. Now I know where it's going, what the plot ho plot lines are, what's going on with everything. A second listen would be ideal. The reality is I'm not going to do it. I'm so far behind with my being finished

42:30 listening and I'm just so busy at work and other things are happening. But I I do know if I could actually listen to this in the next couple of months again, I would get so much more out of it. More out of it. Yeah. And and that's, you know, let's face it, we spend a lot of money on these things. You want to be able to have repeat listens and get value out of it every time. And you know, the the value of most big Finnish is that they they're worthy of second, third, fourth listens. It's just as the more and more material comes out, it's hard to find the time to get the first listen in at the moment. That's right. What one uh what do you think of the the um do you remember how you were feeling about the the six doctor and Mrs. Clark dynamic at the time? I loved her instantly as a companion. I thought she

43:16 was really refreshing. Yeah. Well, I didn't like how they brought her in because the first time she came in was with the regeneration story. So, Mrs. Clark was just like they did with Mel, which I think was a mistake was they just put her in. So she was just suddenly there. That was her first appearance, was it? The last adventure. Yeah, the last adventure was her first appearance. It was like what they did with Mel. And and the issue with the issue with Doctor Who companions, often they're not very well drawn out. I think the audios do a better job at at at filling them out as characters, but often a doctor character isn't well drawn out. And that first story they get is often the only defining moment they get to be a Doctor Who character. And so time, you know, Sarah Jane Smith, the time warrior, you find out she's a journalist. You find out she's a women's

44:02 feminist. You find out all these things about her which then carries on and Elizabeth Slen maintains them throughout her run. But they do very little to actually do anything else to pump Sarah Jane Smith up. It's just that the actress is so good she does herself and I think that's that's similar with all sorts of you know even Katie Manning her first appearance that tell the autumn show tells you so much and you know Ken John we we actually run through the show Mel you don't get that opening episode so you got you got one line she's a computer programmer from peace sausage but who is she what you know that that first show you need to actually give her an opening story an introduction some actual bare some bones I think Mel always suffered from the fact that no one ever did that for her. So I think why Mel is so successful in the new

44:47 series when they bring her back is because they look back on her original run which was her first coming and saying oh well let's build on that and now give her character but while she was actually there she didn't actually get to de develop her character cuz no author knew what they were dealing with. So I think that um Miranda Raisen who's amazing actress you know once what's other big Finnish stars they managed to pull in. That's what I wanted to say about her because she you would not know that the character Constance Clark is the same actress who plays Tula in that Dalek story from season 3. You would not know it was the same which supposed to be a good thing. That's not a good story. Um I mean I know Miranda Raisin from things like from Spooks and other amazing BBC drama like she's an amazing

45:33 actress who unlike and I said I know Siobhan Riven has a huge career I didn't know her career Miranda Ray and I knew her career and so in the previous stories of this when they actually introduced her properly suddenly you see the value and I'm pretty sure that she actually did record that last doctor story after she'd done some of the earliest she actually already appeared in this trilogy just hadn't been released I think that's how it worked. Um, but certainly she's, yeah, once again, a very fascinating character and they still haven't finished off her story. I do kind of hope at some stage they might go back to her because I'm I'm pretty sure her story was never fully realized in terms of why she had to flee, what happened to her husband. There was all these questions about her which they were drip feeding us with these trilogies and then we just stopped

46:20 seeing her. And so I'm not sure we've actually ever gone back. Well, they've just well they've just released a box set that I haven't listened to yet because Mrs. Clark, right? That's right. So, yes, I haven't listen and I've heard very good things about it from from people. So, he's hoping that listen that a lot of a lot of the um things about the character come up and she she has some good scenes once again what with the the Rani. Um, and I said it's it's lovely when it's just lovely having two scenes with strong women with each other, not talking about men, but actually talking about drama and life and and you know, in this case, you know, trying to deal with her and she's she gets some very strong things to do as a character, which is, you know, always great. Fantastic. Uh, the other cast is good too. Regular cast. So, Olivia Pulle, uh,

47:07 James Joyce, Olivia Pulle, what what else has she done? Was she Was she Avalon in the Blake Seven? Yes, Avalon in the Blake Seven as well. Played Avalon. Y Y as well. And speaking of Blake 7, I had to do a double take cuz Tim Bentik sounded to me like Paul Darrow. I thought, is Paul Darrow in this? But no, it was just Tim doing one of his uh various voices. Yeah, he could he could definitely do a Paul Darrow if they needed him. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Wonder if I'll ever think of that. Yeah, if they do, you heard it here first. Sirens of Audio. Now, was there anything I missed off Planet of the Rani? I'm sure there is, but but just as Yeah, great great adventure. And once again, well worth getting. More expensive though, cuz they were number 200. They haven't dropped the price on this one.

47:52 Well, they've dropped they have dropped the price, but not as much as they dropped the before 200s, but yeah, getting some subscription is worth getting. So for those who've seen the Rani in perhaps just the Disney stories, the Disney who stories only, would you recommend they go back and get a taste of the Rani on audio? Yes. I mean, I I think this is much better Ronnie than they got on television. As much as I think Archie did an amazing job for the little bit that she's in it, if you want a really a good strong dose of what the Ronnie could do and where she could have developed from and and what they could have, you know, the the range of which the Ran is possible of, these two stories give you a much better view of the Rani and um yeah, it's really worth bringing it back. It is sad we didn't get Kamara playing it. I think Kate

48:39 would have loved it. Kate always talked about how much she loved her time at Doctor Who and she loved the rani and yeah when big finish offered it to her she jumped at the chance to come back and they were quickly writing the stories. It's just tragic that you know she didn't quite live long enough to make them. Yep. And they didn't do uh many more than those. I' I've heard I'm not sure of the detail. Maybe someone else knows and can drop it in the comments that I've heard that there was uh some rights issues with using the Rani beyond this. Um, I believe that the Pip and Jane Baker estate wanted a a great deal more than uh than the Big Finnish could justify. So, I think that was something to do with why the Ronnie wasn't used again. So, um, but yeah, these two stories, fantastic stuff. I recommend

49:25 you go and give them a listen indeed. As soon as you can. Right, let's leave our episode at that today. Um, I'll tell you about next week's episode in a moment, but before we do, Phillip, um, my list here is saying that, um, it's your turn to give us your recommendation for the week. Okay, I'm going to give you two. I've got to recommend a podcast. Um, there's a podcast. It's called 5 the 500 year diary. It's by the same guys who put out um, flight through entirety. And they've they the 500 year diary, they're they're avoiding. So not avoiding they're holding back from doing the final. They've done every episode from the very beginning, but they they stopped before the Jodie series because they feel like they need a bit of space before they

50:10 talk about Jody. So what they're doing is they're doing different little sets of stories. At the moment they're doing doing the sequels. So you know they did the Dalek Invasion of Earth because it's the second time the Daleks came back. Um the moon base for the Cybermen. They did um Warriors Deep for the Sea Devils and Salurans. So, they're doing this the second showing of of characters. Um, uh, no, they didn't No, they didn't do web. They haven't done everything. They did do um Seeds of Doom, Seeds of Death for the Ice Warriors. Yeah, they didn't do Storm. Wonder why. Um, but they did do the Ronnie. So, they did time and the Ronnie like on the whole they've actually been cuz usually they've been very positive. They've actually been pretty dang negative about most of the sequels actually. Um I was very

50:57 surprised with Invasion of the Dinosaurs because no Invasion of the Daleks which you know one of my favorite stories D invasion of Earth but um they do do have a very interesting take on time of the Rani and discuss the Rani which has just come out in the last week or so. So it's going to be pretty easy to find. So if you want to just listen to someone else's take on the Rani and and what they did with her. They do talk about the new show as well because they recorded this I think they recorded the episode a couple of hours after the last Infinity War came out. Um it was I found it very interesting to listen to they take take a view. Um Todd Bilby of our podcast always has some very interesting takes. I respect anything he has to say and make sure I always listen to him and the other guys make some good points too. Um but I'm going to recommend a TV show as well. I've just finished watching a show

51:43 called The Residence which is a murder mystery comedy um set in the White House. So during a state tenner with the the the Australian delegation is having a state dinner. So the Australian ambassador and Hugh Jackman and Karly Manugg Kylie Manog is actually in it. She's performing. So she's she's one of the guests going along for this state dinner and they lose their performers. So she gets up to perform. Um and Carly Manugg is hilarious. Like she's very funny. So there's lots of Australians in it. But the um one of them one of the um what the usher is he called the usher. I forget what he's called. the person who looks after all the staff is murdered anyhow. And for six episodes, there's a they bring in a a private detective who

52:29 basically keeps everyone locked into the residence interviewing people. And it's it is very funny, but it's also very cleverly done. The editing is amazing. There's some amazing visual shots. There's an amazing shot where they track all the way through the White House, all through the residence, all through the just all through the different rooms in one very fast shot. There's other shots with a from a bird's eye view cuz literally a bird looking down at the White House and and flying around all the grounds of the White House. Beautiful. So, it's beautifully filmed, amazingly acted. There's a lot of very laughout moments, but also suspense in there in terms of just trying to puzzle out who who the murder is. the the the chief the detective is a female private eye and she is hilarious but just so bland and just and just the way she

53:15 treats everyone around her is just very funny. There's lots of timey wy stuff cuz there's stuff happening you know in the future cuz it it's there's a Senate inquiry from what happened 6 months beforehand and people are being interviewed about what happened then you go back and see it happen. Um an amazing piece of television that I think anyone would love. Hope I've probably sold that now. It's on Netflix. The Res. The Residence. Really, really worth watching. Awesome. Now, what about you? What have you been listening to or watching or what do you want to recommend? Well, as I alluded to before, I listened to the short trip uh rarities bonus. Well, that was a originally a subscriber bonus. It's probably available to buy as a as a rarities um release now on the bigfinnish.com website, but it's called

54:02 a home from home. not related to the Rani stories in any way, shape, or form. Written um by Nick um Nick Wallace, I think it was that wrote it. It's a third doctor Liz Shaw story. So Liz Shaw takes the kind of lead. She's investigating the uh something and the doctor disappears. So she's trying to find where the doctor is. has got Benton in it as well, but it's narrated by Steven Critow who did a lot of short stories and he does a he does an awesome third doctor actually and um you know he was he's very sadly missed. He he died a couple of years ago and was uh was one of the regular uh performers on Big Finish. And it got me thinking about all those performers who have had the

54:49 opportunity to come back to Big Finnish, especially the ones not just like Steven Critell who's just a an amazing actor but was never in the TV series, but all those who were in the TV series who uh Big Finnish were able to get back. Elizabeth Sladen, Mary Tam, Deborah Watling, um William Russell, uh all those who have been able to come back and put an extra stamp on their time in Doctor Who through by means of Big Finish. It's it's a it's a wonderful thing that they've done over these years. Um and it just got me got me thinking about that, but also reminding me that Steven Crito is amazing. It's only a 20 minute short trip, so if you if you get it, um it doesn't take long to get through. It's a It's a cute little story. Um, a nice story. Um, in

55:34 the end, of course, it's got the scary Doctor Who elements. Very early on, it's set in the third Doctor era, so about 6 months. Um, Liz Shaw has been been there with Unit. So, yeah, very early on. Not that she was there for long anyway. Was she only one season, but but um yeah, that was my recommendation for today. Excellent. So, next time on the podcast, um, we've got someone, uh, as a guest that I've been wanting to talk to for a very long time. Someone whose work with Big Finish I have really appreciated. Uh, he still occasionally does work for them. He was one of the regulars of the Big Finnish um, uh, family in the early days, and that is Ian Brooker. So, one

56:21 of the voice actors who's worked on many, many uh big finishes over the years, particularly the early ones. Um, we're going to be taking a closer look at the eighth Doctor story, Embrace the Darkness, which was one of his very first ones, if not the first. I can't remember, but we'll take a closer look at that, and uh have a chat with him about his life and career and his Doctor Who fandom, which is what got him into Big Finnish in the first place. So, uh it was a fascinating chat with Ian, and uh I'm very, very happy that we had that. Looking forward to sharing it with you all. Be good. So, Philillip, been wonderful being in your company and as always in your company and I think we went over the 30-minute mark, though. Just all right. Uh, thank you, Philip. We will catch you all next time. Bye,

57:07 everyone. This has been the Sirens of Audio. The Rani written properly on audio taking a closer look at the Rani Elite and Planet of the Rani with your hosts Philip Edney and Dwayne Bunny. Theme music by Joe Kramer. Catch up with all the latest info including news on our live events at sirensofa.com. Got some feedback? Send your email to [email protected] or find us on all our social media at audiosirens. Thanks for listening audio files. We'll hear you next time.