Were the World Mine (2008) dir. Tom Gustafson | SHOWGAYS

0:28 Oh, Timothy. Timothy, that's it. Ask me to sing another line from this entire thing. I simply could not do it. I think right after I watched it, I could have sung Pyramis and Disney. There was some whatever he does and then it like keeps coming back. Yeah. The When Fairies Fay and Humans Play and Oh, yes, honey. Oh, the bard. The bard is with us today, honey. Wow. Um, welcome back to Showgaze, a cinemusical podcast. And I think this is like right smack dab in between is it a movie musical or is it a cinem musical? Cuz there are times where I'm like, what is this? But that's just more general questions I had. Um, as always, I'm your

1:17 host, Adam. As always, I'm your host R.J. As usually, I'm your host Molly. Just typically. Just typically. Just typically. But the first season I wasn't on it. True. Yeah, that's true. Molly, how are you? Molly, how are you? How you doing? I'm good. It's about to be camp season, so I'm just getting ready for the busy time that I had. So, we're we'll be talking about camp today, honey. Oh, yeah. It's going to be all camp. Uh, but I had today off and, you know, like laundry and stuff. So, I'm just in the mode of like get everything nice at home so that then I'm like not stressed about that on top of work, you know. Yeah, that's what's up. That's nice. RJ, um, I'm doing okay. I What's going on? Yeah, it's it's hot in

2:03 our apartment since famously we live in an attic and now that it's the summer. Um, I just looked at my bracelet as if it was a watch cuz I was about to check the temperature, but uh, does your watch Does your watch tell you the temperature outside? No, outside. I was going to like say the weather I mean the weather has been nice. Um, whether the weather is cold, I can like wear shorts now. Or whether the weather is hot. The rain in Spain falls mainly in the plane. In the plane. Um, so yeah, we're starting summer here in Chicago officially. Well, since I'll be the one to bring up it's Pride. Happy Pride, everybody. Nobody else wants to say it on this podcast. I guess they're all Target. Everybody I'm with is Target, apparently. They're all too scared to say happy Pride. My god. Um, anyway,

2:51 happy Pride. does our pride in July. So, I'm sorry that I I was not Oh, do they really? Yeah. Mhm. That's weird. It's a later later parade here. Uh, so it's it's like when we were in Orlando and it was like in September just cuz it was October. October. Too damn hot. Yeah. I think actually more places than I realized cuz then Madison's was in um August because there was like a historic gay bar there that had had like an annual picnic for many years before there was kind of like a nationalized coordinated pride movement. And so it was like, well, we'll keep it when the picnic was basically to acknowledge that. So I think there are more places than we maybe realize that have their celebrations in other months. Well, you know what? Let's celebrate in June and then people have their own. Yeah. On another month, too. I think

3:37 June is kind of a kickoff, though. I don't think I've heard of anywhere that does it earlier than June. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, cuz the gays are still sleeping and hibernating. Yes. We need We need The bears are still hibernating, honey. Um, so R.J. Oh, Molly, I always forget. Do we do we have any any mails in the mail bag? What's in our bag? Did we get a letter? Did we get a letter? No. Oh, Nicole wrote in to say that hair went very well. Yay. Good. Congrats. Okay, R.J., This week, this week you are challenged to summarize the plot of 2008's indie Oh. Oh. Okay. I want to before R.J. reads this, I do want to

4:24 challenge the listeners to be listening to this and I want you to imagine what the tone of this musical you think is based on the plot. Bas Oh, based on the plot. Okay. Tone. Based on the plot summary, what do you think the tone of this musical is? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Um, I'd love for you to tell me when we get to it because I don't know if I could define what the tone of this musical is. Uh, R.J., you have one minute to summarize the plot of Were the World Mine? And your time starts now. Timothy is a gaybullied student at an all boys private school. At home, he lives with his mom, Donna, after running away from his dad's house after his dad found out he was gay. Donna and Timothy have an uneasy relationship. Donna not fully able to accept his son's her son's sexuality. The school's drama teacher, Miss Tebit, puts on a Midsummer Night stream and requires all the seniors to participate. Timothy is hesitant to try out as it draws more gay attention to him by his spears, but ends up liking

5:10 being a performer. Um, he is cast as Puck. At school, Timothy crushes on the star rugby player, Jonathan, who is cast as Lysander, I think. Um, while learning his lines, he creates the same flower with love inducing powers like Puck in the play, and uh, uses it to cast a gay love spell on people in town, which include, but not limited to, his best friend, Max, Donna's boss, Norah Ballinger, the homophobic rubby coach, and the team, Jonathan's girlfriend, and Jonathan himself. He cast gay he casts gay chaos in his town, and the parents soon raise concern to the school principal. Miss Abbott tells everyone to come to the play and everything will be resolved. And she in a dream tells Timothy that now that he's had his fun, it's time to end the spell. During the show, Timothy reverses the spell, but the power of live theater still leads everyone to see the beauty in what makes Timothy unique and special. And everyone becomes tolerant of him. And Jonathan reveals he actually is in love with Timothy without the spell.

5:57 And that's over a minute, but if you did it, you summarized it. Thank you. And so I want us to think about everybody's talking about Jamie. I want us to think about, right? And I want us to imagine a musical 2025 where the set the the the hook is gay outcast teen is cast as puck and then he makes the love potion and he's making everybody gay and we're doing the play and everybody's gay. And let's think about what the tone would be of that in 2025. And then let's think about the tone that we actually saw in the 2008 musical because let me tell you that you are potentially picturing a romp and I need you to to 180 on that picture. I need you to tone it all the way down. There was not a smile to be had on this screen. This was the most serious, somber musical. This is serious

6:43 business in many a year. Yeah. Was this your first time? Well, relationship. Was this your first time watching this? This was my first time watch. I didn't know about anything about it going in. Wow, that's crazy. Adam, I saw this uh when it aired on Logo in high school. was the producers I think I saw in the opening credits and uh I I did watch it and I don't remember how I felt about it. Um I don't I don't think I had really strong feelings about it because I don't I don't remember being like oh it was bad but I also don't remember being like oh it's great. Um but I think I mean I was still like less than 2008 I was like a sophomore in

7:29 high school. Um, what was it? So, I think we sophomore junior that that era. Um, did they show it on logo like that year or it had to No, it probably would have been 09. Yeah, probably when they showed it on on TV. Um, and were you out at this time, Adam? Yeah, cuz I came out freshman year of high school. So, I was out, but I was definitely still like it was weird to me. It also like wasn't in the culture, but it was weird to me to see people kissing like boys kissing on screen cuz it was like the only time I'd ever seen that was like porn. Yeah. I'd never seen that outside of porn before. So I think when I watched it I was like, "Oh, I don't know. This is so weird." Yeah. Uh but I I don't know. I mean, it's weird watching it now cuz I'm like, "Oh, there I have so much to say." Even

8:16 though do I have anything to say about this? Like I don't know. It's It's weird. Uh R.J. did you gay gay gay boy in an all boy school? Any thoughts? Yeah, I I think when I was telling you yesterday when we watched it, I was like I think I rented this on Blockbuster, but now that I'm thinking about it, I think I also watched on logo. I teed it because I I saw it was coming and I was like and I read the description. I specifically remember reading the description musical and I was like, "Okay, cool." Well, at this time I was in my, you know, I, like we've said in the show, I was late into coming into musicals. Um, so at this time I was like, well, I'm trying to absorb as many musicals as possible. You know, I was like, I loved Rent in 8th grade. I love Legally Blonde. So, and

9:04 this is and this is also like kind of in a similar category of like Rent of like everybody kind of has to know it and Yeah. Yeah. totally. Yes. Yeah. So, I was like, okay, let me this. Let me get this ready. Right. If you're if you're in theater and you don't know where the world mine, you're a social pariah. Um, and then I think I yeah, I had recorded it cuz I think it was like showing at night or whatever, but I just recorded it and like watched it on like a weekend afternoon or something. And then I specifically remember feeling like where was the music? Like I was like, where are the hummal melodies? Where are the songs that I Those are two different questions. Yeah. Yeah. At the time I was like cuz I mean I was like into at the time I was like yeah Legally Bond the musical spelling be next to Normal like those were like the like a

9:51 broad range of musicals but like I was like okay but I want like song songs that I could sing out to and like love and I like didn't feel that from when I was watching it. So like the memory of the movie like disappeared. The only parts that I remembered when I was watching it back was the the theater this the play at the end. Okay. So, that was the last time I had seen it. This is my this was my rewatch years later. Many many years later. Many many years later. Many many. But I I I kind of like shared it on like I think like our discord with boys love and there were other like did you a little bit? Yeah. And there were some there were like a handful of like queer millennials too that were like, "Oh, I remember when

10:36 this came out. I like remembered being like really into it cuz it was like playing." So this was sort of like the avatar of the gay millennial experience is what you're saying of like everyone saw it at the time, but it left no lasting impact. I would say that I the thing I didn't bring up is I saw I definitely saw this and because of that when my senior year happened and we did Midsummer Nights Dream I was like dying to be and then I did not get cast. So that's why this has a bad stain in here. Um I was what did you play? Who did you play? I was one of the actors in the troop who ends up playing the wall in Pyramis and this which is such a great physical comedy part. So funny. And I don't know why I truly, guys, I was ahead of my time. And by that I just

11:21 mean I was shockingly a high school actor that knew how to make a choice, which many do not. I decided that I was going to be 150 years old. So I was like hunched over and I just like shuffled everywhere and I talked like this. That was my voice for the whole show. Do you remember any lines from the the play with? Not a single line. I could look up cuz he has one like monologue in the thing of being like, "I'm the wool. You look between my [ __ ] or whatever." Um, and that's how I fully delivered wall monologue. Oh, okay. So, it's snout is the is the quint. Wow. This is it. All of my lines. I had 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 eight

12:09 nine lines in the whole show, which is crazy. Um, in this same interlude at Doth before that I once now by name present a wall and such a wall as I would have you think that had in it a cranied hole a shank. That was the energy right that we were going with. Um, it also was based on the old lady. The old spine lady who Oh, from Spongebob. From Spongebob who does not want to buy the chocolate. Mhm. If you've ever seen the chocolate sale I've never watched Spongebob. I'm sorry. That explains And that's that explains why you were a great student. It doesn't. Um so anyway, that was uh that was my um Midsummer experience. But I did I did like have one part where they like make

12:56 fun of me. And so I did as a character choice I went like that where I like went to do which is like the Italian [ __ ] you where you like brush brush the underside of your chin with your fingers and I was told and the audience gasped. No, they like thought it was really funny cuz like my whole bit ended up just becoming like I was like from New York. Like that was the whole thing. Yeah. And so I did that and then the audience thought it was funny and then the director was like you can't do that like because it's offensive and I was like totally totally. And then I did it every show. And then they were and I was, by the way, I was president of my drama club. And that was when after after Midsummer was over, we were heading into um auditions for uh my final spring musical, which was Once

13:42 Upon a Mattress. And they were like, "We're not allowing you to audition because because you did the flip off." It was like that. And then they were like, "You haven't been a good president of the drama club." It was like a lot of basic [ __ ] honestly. But um but it's because of this movie that that but this was the this was the straw that broke their back technically was was me doing that. And then guess what? I still ended up playing. Yeah, you were still in Mattress and see how see how God works. God tests. Okay, that's it. Um is this going to become a Christian podcast now? Well, everything said it's got to be everything. Yeah, it is the only podcast you need, including for regular churchgoers. So, regular churchgoers. Um, let's talk about the the history of where the world mines. So, uh, William

14:30 Shakespeare was born in Yeah, you got to do that voice. We must start with a Midsummer Night stream written in published in 159 or first presented in 1595 or 1596 by Mr. One William Shakespeare. Heard of him? And I asked I asked Google's Gemini to summarize the plot of A Midsummer Night's Dream cuz I didn't feel like doing it. Slowly becoming AI slop over here. I'm going to Well, we're so long. 2025. We got to get with the times. Stop me when you want to add or contribute anything to the summary. Okay, sure. A Midsummer Night's Dream by William Shakespeare is a whimsical comedy that intertwines the fates of four young lovers, a group of amateur actors, and a mischievous band of fairies in an Athenian forest. The play

15:15 opens in Athens where Duke Thesius is preparing to marry Hippalita. Uh, Egypus, an Athenian nobleman, brings his daughter Heria. Oh, sure. A wasn't in this scene, so it didn't affect me. Um, an Athenian nobleman uh, brings his daughter Hermier before Thesus, demanding she marry Demetrius. Heria, however, is in love with Lzander, and Lander loves her back. Helena is deeply in love with Demetrius, but he scorns her. Faced with the choice of marrying Demetrius, becoming a nun or death, Heria and Lysander decide to elope into the forest. Helena, hoping to win Demetrius's favor, reveals their plan to him, and all four end up in the same enchanted wood. The infamous Midsummer Nights Dream Wood, the forest, the Shakespeare's

16:01 forestal space. A group of a group of Athenian craftsmen, including the boisterous bottom, are rehearsing a play to perform at Thesius's wedding. They also choose to practice in the same forest. Unbeknownst to the mortals, the forest is home to a feuding fairy king and queen, Oberon and Tatana. Oberon is angry angry with angry with Tatana for refusing to get to give him a challenging boy. Changeling boy, I was like, hello. Changeling boy to get revenge. She enlists the mischievous fairy puck, also known as Robin Goodfellow. Girl, pick a name. Pick a name and pick a lane, [ __ ] To fetch a magical flower whose juice when applied to sleeping eyelids makes the person fall in love with the first creature they see upon

16:47 waking. Oberon plans to use this onto Tanya. Puck with his pension for chaos accidentally and deliberately. How can something be accidental and deliberate? Yeah. AI Gemini. I do think to I mean it's been a while since I watched it, but I think that it's uh what's the name of the fairy king? Oberon. I think it's that Tanya has kidnapped the changeling and he's trying to get her to give it back to the family that she stole the child from. I mean, this this freak William Shakespeare is a sicko writing about all kinds of disgusting trash, so that doesn't surprise me. Um, uh, deliberately this next order. Well, it's accidentally and deliberate, obviously. The a famous thing we can all do,

17:33 a deliberate accident. A deliberate accident causes havoc among the lovers. He mistakenly anoints Lysander's eyes, causing him to fall madly in love with Helena. When Demetrius also receives the love potion, both men pursue a bewildered Helena, while Heria is left feeling betrayed and confused. Puck also finds the mechanicals rehearsing the mechanicals of the actors. He transforms Bottom's head into that of an ass. Tatana, under the influence of the love potion, wakes to see Bottom and immediately falls deeply in love with him, doing on him extravagantly. eventually. Ober. Isn't this funny that they've never done a this? Like we had so many of these 90s Shakespeare remakes in like high school settings or whatever in romcoms, but they didn't do this one. Nobody did this. So like a like a 10 things I hate about you type.

18:18 I bet I mean there's magic, but like Yeah, the magic is hard to You'd have to either just allow there to be magic or like really work hard to make the like sudden switches of who people love make sense. Yeah. Well, they're teens. It makes sense that they they switch on a dime. Uh eventually, Oberon realizes Puck's errors regarding the lovers and instructs him to rectify them. Puck administers an antidote to Lander, restoring his love for Heria. Demetrius, however, remains under the spell, ensuring he will now truly love Helena. Oberon also releases Tatana from the spell, and she is horrified to see her infatuation with Bottom. Bottom, his donkey head restored, awakens, believing his experience was a dream. The lovers now properly paired Heria with Lysander Helen with Demetrius are discovered by Thesius and Agus. Thesius seeing that

19:03 all are content overrules Aus Aius's earlier command and decrees that the two couples will marry alongside him and Apolla. The play concludes with the triple wedding ceremony. Triple wedding, [ __ ] Uh the Mechanicals perform their comically inept play Pyramis and Fsby for the newlyweds much to the amusement of the audience. The fairies led by Oberon and Tatana blessed the newlywed couples and their houses ensuring happiness and fertility before disappearing into the night. When was the last time Gemini? Yes. When was the last time any of us went to a triple wedding? Bring those back. Bring back the wedding. That's how you're going to save money on your weddings, guys. Triple weddings. Triple weddings. Yeah. It's It's just like when you have multiple baptisms or confirmations, right? Exactly. We need like an Uber pool for weddings. Yeah.

19:51 Pick up pickup was on the way. Yes. Yes. Yes. What was our last multiple wedding? Was it Guys and Dolls or did we have another one? Uh the only one I can think of. Yeah, we have lots there are lots that multiple couples get together at the end, but for an actual wedding, weirdly weird. Yeah. Weirdly, even though it's very common in Shakespeare comedies for there to be like a wedding at the end, uh I feel like musicals it's not so much. It's just that they end up together. That's true. That's true. Um, but the last like duo couple would have been um pajama game that ended up together. Mhm. Uh, we haven't done Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, but I'm guessing that that one has a wedding at the end. Ends with a septup a septup wedding. A septuple wedding. Exactly. So that's that's the

20:37 plot of Midsummer in case it's been a while since you've been in um junior year English class. So, um, so that's the original, uh, kind of blueprint of what we're going for here. Let's talk about Fairies from 2003, a short film directed by Tom Gustoson, who directed this movie. Who directed this movie? Okay. And look at this. I have the trailer. Ooh. Okay. So, does anybody notice any similarities between that and where the world? It's the same. It's the same. Um, how long was the short movie? Do you know? I don't know how long it Let me see if it's cuz this trailer is 2 minutes and I'm like I feel like short films are usually what, five? So, did we

21:22 just watch films are I feel like usually like a half hour. It feels like it's they like made the short film as like the concept and then yeah like a a producer like a logo came in and be like let's make a full version of this version and then they were like what if it's just all what if we just add a lot of air is what I think happened because a 20inut version of this sounds sick. I love that idea. Love that idea. Love that idea. And it's also such a short film concept where it's like what if the town goes crazy? Um yeah, I actually went to one year when I was like in high school, maybe I was in high school, I don't remember. I think it was a high school. Uh Notre Dame had a um like a

22:08 student film festival. Mhm. And my mom and I went and one of the student films was like a uh it was like a reverse world. So like everyone was gay and the one straight person was like ostracized or whatever and they were all like, "Oh, you don't like Broadway." Like it was like kind of the it was like it's in its own way it was still offensive still stereotyping. Um but uh that that energy of being like a 15minute, you know, little thoughtprovoking piece, right? Sure. A 10-minute play. Yeah. because I felt Can I Can I just get into some feeling like when we when we really got to like the real hij jinks of the potion and like seeing more of

22:55 this like pretend dream world like that was where I got like excited to be watching this and so it was there was a lot of stuff before we got to I feel like the Yes. And that magical interesting stuff. Yeah. In that portion, I would say it's probably about the 21 minutes in between the movies. I would say I would say they probably fleshed out his relationship with his mom. That probably was fully added. And the relationship relationship that was my god, I could write a book. Um, and the relationship between like Max and Frankie, his two friends, I think was probably more drawn in this. To be clear, I don't think anyone is like a three-dimensional character really, but

23:42 um that's something there was more time spent with those onedimensional characters, right? Yes. More time with these characters, but saying probably still like the same amount of dialogue. Yeah. Um so, World of the World Mine 2000 I just wanted I just brought it up because I think it's very important to note that fairies, which is what this is obviously based on, was made in 2003. Okay. It's the exact same idea, but it's 2003. 5 years later. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um, so directed by Tom Gustoson, uh, and written by both Tom Gustoson and Corey James Kenberg. Uh, it is produced by Tom and Corey and also Peter Sterling. It stars Tanner Cohen as Timothy. Uh, Wend uh, Wendy Roby as Ms. Tabet. Um, she also was in

24:30 Fairies. I don't know if you noticed that was the same woman. Yes, I did. Judy Mlan, she has a very distinct face. Uh, Judy Mlan played Donna, the mom. Um, why don't I just make this bigger? Uh, Jud Zelda Williams played Frankie the friend. Nora uh, I'm sorry, Jill Larson plays Nora Bellinger, the CEO of Norafay, CEO of Norafay Cosmetics. A Mary Kay, a Mary Kay um, homage. You sure? Ricky Goldman plays Max, who's his other friend. Uh, Nathaniel David Becker plays Jonathan. That's Jonathan with an O. Jonathan. Jonathan. Um, Christian Stoalt plays Coach Driscoll. And David

25:17 Darlow plays Principal Dr. Bellinger. The cinematography is by Kira Kelly. It is edited by Jennifer Lily. The music, I'm sorry, the songs are by Jessica Fogle and the score is by Tim Sanduski. Uh, the production company is The Group Entertainment. It is distributed by Speak Productions. It was released on November 21st, 2008. Its running time is 95 minutes and the box office return is 123,789, but it was only at four theaters max when it was out. So, I don't know. Yeah. And there's I don't know. There's no budget. It's an indie movie, so they don't have to you don't you can't find that stuff as easily as something that's publicly traded. But, um Yeah. Okay. Uh,

26:02 I have no background on this. Um, the Wikipedia article said this is based on fairies. Already talked about that. And the IMDb page has literally nothing submitted for trivia. So, this is quick today. Um, here are some awards though. I will bring this up. Um, from the film festival circuit. It won the grand jury award for outstanding US dramatic feature at the Heineken Red Star. I'm sorry, the Heineken Red Star Award at Outfest 2008. It won the James Lion Editing Award for narrative feature in 2008 at the Woodstock Film Festival. It won the Scion Award for First Time Director 2008 International Gay and Lesbian Film Festival. Best music and a narrative feature film and best LGBT feature film at the 2008 Nashville Film Film Festival. It won the director's

26:49 award at the 2008 Connecticut Gay and Lesbian Film Festival. It won the jury award for best overall film at the 2008 Fort Worth Gay and Lesbian Film Festival. Uh DFW Uh, and it won the Adam Baron Rainbow Award for best narrative feature at the 2008 Honolulu Rainbow Film Festival. And finally, the jury award for best feature film at the 2008 Outflow. The week of its being in the most amount of theaters, which was I think like the fifth week into its run, is when I pulled the box office information. So, um, it was like 44 in box office returns. I'm not going to list the entire list from 1 to 44, but I'll tell you I'll say the top five. What else was going on in culture in 2008? We were in

27:35 high school. We should remember something. And number five in the box office. Wait, when when the movie came out? November. November of 2008, but I think this is like the second week of December when I So, we just elected Barack Obama. We just elected Obama. We just elected Barack Obama. Um, in number in fifth place is uh Bos Lurman's Australia with Nicole Kidman in uh Hijman. Um, in fourth in fourth spot is Bolt, Disney's animated feature film starring the voice of Miley Cyrus and uh, Greece. John Travolta. In third place is Twilight. Oh god, the first one. The first one. The first one

28:22 in second place is Four Christmases, which is a I don't know. A Christmas movie. Witherspoon. Is that the one? Yeah, I think is Four Christmases. The Vince Von I think it's Reese Witherspoon and Vince Von cuz I can imagine the cover where she's like standing on a box cuz she Yes, it is. They're wrapped in ribbons. They're wrapped in ribbons. Wrapped in garland. Yeah. And in first place is The Day the Earth Stood Still. What the hell is the I have literally I was hoping someone else was going to know. Is it like maybe Yeah. Is it like an Independence Day situation? Um Oh, yeah. It's a sci-fi thriller. It's an stars Keanu Reeves.

29:09 Okay. Um it's a remake of the 1951 film of the same name. I love that the I love that the cover of the DVD for Four Christmases is the only thing that we can remember about Yes, absolutely. I mean, obviously we know what happens in Twilight. We've all We've all seen it, I'm sure. Right. We've all seen R.J. has never seen Twilight. You've never seen Twilight now. Oh, R.J. Something about sparkling and playing baseball, right? Yeah. The baseball scene. That's the the baseball scene. Come on. It's so camp. You'd love it now. I can't believe it. Find it really funny. Yeah. I think there was like a Twilight Renaissance during the pandemic of people enjoying Oh my god. I just sent I just sent the Audrey Heburn Mhm. Tik Tok and in Twilight. What are you? I know what you are.

29:58 But you got to but the R you got you got to get really quiet on the R. I know what you are. Um okay. Let's uh let's move into our discussion. I think you hate gay people. We're happy pride. We're goofing on this movie, but I think that there's a lot of good I think there's a lot of good ideas here. Correct. I think there's a lot of fun potential creative ideas. The movie is so somber that it's really hard to I think I think when a piece of media asks you to take it so seriously it's really

30:44 hard not to be really critical of it because you're like well I'm not having fun so this has to be good basically and it just doesn't as Adam said the characters are very simple I feel like you're sp you spend a long time before you're like where is this going though with this whole plot and and look like it remains difficult to be out in high school, right? And even more so in 2008, but and and and also like maybe we're going into an era unfortunately where like this is going to be even more relevant of this sort of homophobia, but like it doesn't have to be so serious the whole time, I think, is the hard part. Yeah. Yeah. It's tough

31:32 because like in our previous Pride films like I I keep going The Prom like The Prom two weeks ago like I keep going back to like Priscilla like there is a sense of like it can be kind of there's like a human spirit of like you want to keep trying but there's I think like the the early gay like queer like 2000s especially it's so I feel like a lot of the gay media we got were just like kids like trying to just like, you know, they're like being bullied or like they're they're just trying to like rise out of of being bullied in high school and there's I feel like there's now looking back I could see like oh I did have like that fatigue like coming out of 2008 like into early 2010s like let's

32:20 get some more levity. Let's get some more happiness in in the gay story. Honestly, like a thing that I wonder how much it impacted people's reticence to come out that like so much media was so like you're going to be miserable if you're gay. It's miserable. Like but but then when you talk about like Priscilla is obviously before this in time like there's also like been a long-term gay sensibility of finding like a like a an almost like aggressive joy in the face of adversity that this is like completely missing that I find a little bit baffling. I think it was a thing of the time, but it's like not it's not like it's not like all of history was like sad gay things and then we like in 2010 discovered that there could be joyful gay things. Like it's like this

33:06 time period was like itself just a weird swing in the super serious direction. Yeah. Yeah. I think too the other pro I mean like it's hard to also I What do I want to say? So, like the closest thing I feel like this comes to is Jamie. Um, but I think the brilliance of everybody's talking about Jamie is that it's not just a it's not a coming out story. Like it's he is just nobody care. Nobody cares really that he's like gay. That whole story and like all of the conflict around it more regard was regarded in the fact that he wants to like do drag. And while you're I mean we're arguing semantics at this point, right? Like it's still an it's still the

33:52 fear of like a a guy having any kind of like feminine trait or whatever. That's obviously the issue. It's so my issue with this movie is like Timothy is a very similar character to um whatever Miss Girl's name was from The Prom. the main character, the main girl, Nancy Joe. What was her name? Emily. Emma. Emma. Her name was Emma. Yeah, she's It's been like 15 days. It's been 15 days. It really stuck with me. It was something Joe was the actress's name. Yes. Yes. Yes. Um they're very similar characters in that they're very um they're very everything is happening around them kind of all the goofiness. So, they kind of

34:38 are the straight man in the situation. But in The Prom, there are like there's a bunch of goofy people that you can like follow and are having a good time. Like the the fun of that musical and like we talked about our problems with that or whatever, but it was like a good it wasn't a I did not have a bad time watching it, right? Um, this one there is there are shenanigans, but I would not say that anyone is like fun or funny or like I like the I like the English teacher. I think she's a character, but I also maybe having a good time a little bit. Yeah, but she's also like exactly the stereotype. Yeah. Yeah. Um, she's a

35:25 literal witch by the end of it. Yes, for sure. For sure. Uh, so I feel like that was like my biggest issue is I was like there's just no one that I'm like cuz like Jamie, he has such a big fun personality that it's like fun to follow him through that show even when it's hard, right? Like his joy in the face of that adversity is what's fun. I unfortunately I don't love this perform. I don't think he does like a bad job, but I don't and I don't think the script like gives him a ton to do, but I unfortunately feel like there's not much in he's all out to say. This performance of Timothy is so it's very effort, but he's like so mad when he goes around

36:11 the town and turns everybody gay. He's like so mad about it that it's like frustrating that it's the most interesting thing that's happened and he's deriving no even like evil joy from it would have been more it's it's very strange because Puck is such a his whole instigator of chaos. Yes. And it's so weird because it weird because I almost feel like they they should have more neatly done a one to one for different characters from Midsummer so that it would like just graft your characters in this just on to those like it's f nobody's going to be mad like it's fine. Um and I feel like it would have been an easier kind of like follow through, but then like everyone turns gay. I don't know. It's so It's such a weird

36:57 It's so I can't explain how weird this music. There's a There is weird. Yeah, it's very weird. I think the like the magic element of it is so interesting. I I like I would like watching it at the time like I was interested by it because like I was like a big charmed Buffy supernatural person. So I was like, "Oh, this is like interesting to see like spells and whatever blah blah blah." But like I think media that use those I feel like there is an innately like there's a fun in it, there's a joy in it and like they really don't there's no joy even in the like turning people gay and like excitement in it like it's just so delivered like straightfaced. Like I will say the one moment that I did find fun and I don't know how intentional

37:43 this was by the filmmakers was when there was a point where Timothy had turned a lot of people gay and he was hanging out with rugby guy and he's having like a lovely romantic time of like my crush finally um reciprocates and this is really love when they're like cuddling in the forest and then it cuts to his mom and his friends locking themselves in the house because they're being so aggressively pursued by the women who've had the love potion that they're like in a zombie movie and I I did enjoy Yes, but they they like mirrored it with everyone cuz it was like first it was the mom with Norah Fay out in the banging the windows and then it was Norah Fay in the or no it was it was Yes, it's Nora Fay goes home and she locks out her husband Dr. Bellinger. Yeah. And then Yeah. Like the And then it's Dr. Bellinger who locks out the

38:30 code. Yeah. Um, but like which again is like it sounds so fun and the movie's having no fun with this concept. No, but this this portion is scored so like sorrowfully. The problem the pro the what really is such a bummer too is like because it's such a serious top like it is like the the word [ __ ] is thrown around like just tossed around in this movie and I understand that that's that's actually the point Adam but um this scene at the like town fair whatever the whatever's going on this evening should be the the scene of like fun I'm having a good time watching the shenanigans unravel and it never gets to

39:17 that point where it's like it's like quiet and then I want to look at them. The guys start like fighting immediately and I'm like I don't I don't know. like the girl the girlfriend of the jock comes in and immediately is like there's the [ __ ] and I was like oh my god like it's like I understand that like we're very at a different place in 2025 with that word than we were in 2008 but like it's a it's a it's jarring it's very jarring look sorry I said the word by the way in case you're trying um I'm trying to find some some like silver linings cuz this is going to be boring if it's just us hating on it. I did like Miss T. I liked her performance a lot. I think there's like a fun

40:03 element with the like Yeah. Like the the It's almost like she was more of the Puck character of like enabling the the magic, you know? Yes. So, she was fun and then like yeah, we get to this like parent meeting where she like literally casts the spell on people to get them to not be upset and come to the play which I was like the most fantastical part of this is how full the auditorium is for this high school performance of Midnight Ice Dream. I know literally the most fantastical part is this set is crazy. This tree, this cherry blossom tree is incredible. So good. Um I also did as I'm going to guess I'm the most contemporary musical theater fan musically of the three of us. And so while the songs didn't like stay with me long term, I did like the music, you know, like I wish that there was some

40:48 fun songs sprinkled in there, but I did like I thought it was like sonically pleasant to listen to the music. Yeah. Yeah. They were pretty, but I think they just needed I wanted it to be punchier. I felt like they needed just more variety in what the song it started to feel like all the songs were the same song. The only song that really stands apart is Pyramis and Thsby, which is like the rock song at the end of the at the end of the play. Mhm. Um, that one's fun. I did like that she was like, "This is so [ __ ] or whatever, blah, blah, blah." And then, uh, Miss T was like, "You're going to need to play in the you're going to need to like, you know, sing the song." And then she like smiles. It's like, "Oh, all is forgiven cuz I get to perform my band in the show.

41:34 S the attitude to our piling hide by name. The trusty is becoming first by night. Scare away right. If we offend we got the will. If we are crew our me. My true intent is your delight is very tragical and realiz talking about borderline offensive also when he turn well okay so so here's another positive the scene where he turns everybody gay during the performance and then they're like just

42:20 making out on stage and the rugby coach comes in who's like what is happening that's um but I also I was like I felt borderline offended by the part where then later we see them like going to rugby practice and they're like dancing around and stuff and I was like so would they like like I feel like they would keep their personalities but just be in love with their friend and they wouldn't like become more flamboyant as a result. Yeah, that's I was confused about the mechanics of the spell because I was like did this turn the spell? Let's get into the spell mechanics. That's what we're here to discuss today. the alchemy, let's say, of of the squirting flower that he created. Yeah, it did seem a little I was like a little confused for a while, too, because So, the first person he subjects to the potion is Max, his friend, which is he does not want Max to fall in love with

43:06 him. And then we like see a scene where he's trying, it seems to me, to like find the potion recipe again to like figure out an antidote cuz he wants to like release Max from this and he can't find it. And then like the So then when the English teacher was like, "Oh, dude, you got to turn everybody back." I was kind of thinking like, oh, he wants to. He just like literally doesn't know how, but then he just does at the end. So, I was like a little confused by the honestly my biggest complaint about this entire movie is this [ __ ] wig that he has to wear in the in the end of the show in this play. This silver anime wig is a crime. I love that this is not related to what I said, Madam. I'm so glad that you brought up the wig, Molly. I just pictured the scene where she's like, "Hey, you have to turn them back." And then I thought about that wig. This wig is a is should whoever. It's like

43:55 it's so crazy because the costumes the costumes are supposed to be like interesting and like hip or current or whatever. There's they're just supposed to be like designed basically. Yeah. But then they choose this like anime wig and I truly I've never wanted to set fire to a piece of plastic in my life. Like that is I wanted to burn a hole in the ozone layer because of it. It's just it's criminally offensive. Somebody needs to be put in prison for this wig. Um, so this Hold on, let me think about Hold on. Cuz I I do not think this is like bad. So I don't want people to be like, "Wow, they just didn't like it." But I have to sit and I have to think about like So now we're Well, first of all, okay, the reason I brought up the Now we're going to be silent for the next 5 minutes. I think this this is a piece

44:40 that is not that is a time capsule. And I think it is I don't and I think it's fine for pieces to exist in the time in which they are and they are not they do not talk to every iteration of time whatever time immemorial. So this is a piece that was developed in 2003. Um when it comes out in 2008 we are in still in the like height of like the kind of George W. Bush era homophobia, right? Like his entire second his entire second run campaign was about like god forbid we let gay people marry each other. Like that was like the biggest Yeah. Cuz even Obama was still very much like no. I believe Obama was like I think he was like um Yeah. Civil unions. Great. Great. So

45:25 that's the era. Glee hadn't come out yet, right? Or Glee had come out and and changed the American mindset of gay people. Adam, I didn't say that. Um, well, I'm looking to you as the subject matter. I've never seen Glee. Um, but the other thing that I think you also have to note is like the seriousness of the tone. I think there is a part of it that I think is very clearly with the wings referencing the Matthew Shepard murder. Um, how it's like the big white wings because when the people came to the and blocked blocked the processors, they wore those like huge white sheet wings and I think

46:12 because the white wings now that I've seen the trailer for the original and it's the same exact kind of design and obviously they don't look the same as to what the blocking protesters wore. It's very different, but like because Puck is not a fairy in the way that you would like put wings that most productions do not put wings on Puck because that's not kind of the fairy world that we're talking about. So, it's interesting that I always was just like, "Oh, they're just like showing off that he's a fairy." And of course, the joke is it's fairy gay. He uses a pansy, right? Like there's a lot of jokes there. and his mom, who's so angry at the notion that he's gay, chooses to make a joke about it. There's a woman who she's trying to sell cosmetics to, who invites her to Bible study. So, we have all the clues

46:58 we need about how this woman will react. And she chooses to make a joke about her son being a fairy. And I was like, "Ma'am, you're so mad at your son because she says in a scene, she also has to come out of the closet every day." And I was like, "This is entirely optional. No one has forced you to disclose this information. Like be aware of your surroundings and make logical choices based on them. Yeah. We had to be like, does she act what is this weird relationship? It is the weirdest. It is the most you cannot track this relationship if you don't. But then I told Adam, I was like, well, isn't that the gay experience to have complicated gay men have complicated relationship with their money? We we're introduced to her because she's so mad that he got a black eye at school that she like throws the dishes on the ground. like this was an accident, too. So, she like thinks

47:44 that he's getting like voluntarily into fighting. Yes. Yeah. And there's nothing that would indicate that he would be the kind of person to do that or that he's being him being gay is making. The only thing that later I think is the reference is that she says to Nora, she says that he just started the school this year. So, I don't know if by that we're supposed to believe like he was kicked out of his last school. Like I don't know if that's where the coming from that he gives violent or angry at all. I mean he's brooding but he's not like having outbursts or he does he does instigate a fight after like he gets the word [ __ ] written on his locker. Oh yeah that's true. Oh in the rugby field. On the rugby field. Yeah.

48:30 Okay. Maybe that's pretty it's pretty subtle if that's what they were trying to tell That's the I mean that's the I I think that's the only that's the only thing that makes sense. I don't think it's done well, but I think it's the only thing that like would logically or cuz she does ask him why he's gay. Maybe she's just mad that he's getting beat up for being gay cuz she thinks he's choosing to be gay. I don't know. Yeah. Well, I do think there is that level, but it's so strange because like there's this entire there's so much that is like subtext of this relationship because there's also a level of like they were kicked out like he got kicked out by his dad but then his mom also chose to leave but she's like regretting living with like I think they've been separated and then he left

49:15 he ran away from his dad and then chose to live with his mom. Okay. Oh, but she talks about how she's like, "I miss the life we h we had with your dad." I think it's Or did the dad just leave when he came out? No, because she says he kicked him. She he kicked him out. kicked him out. M it doesn't like I don't because I don't because like I think some of it you're supposed to also understand that like she blames Timothy for the the disillusion of their marriage. Yeah. That seems to be an undercurrent. But it also but then I was like but if she but if he kicked him out she's with him like they're together. I don't think they were together anymore.

50:01 She chose her son. like you chose your son. Like there's that energy. I'm not saying she shouldn't choose her son by the way. But I'm like it doesn't track then to like be like well I did choose you but I'm like pissed that I chose you. It's like cuz you were that upset about it. You wouldn't have chosen him. And she like brings up like you know it's you know how hard it is to get you into the school blah blah blah. I have to work these jobs. But it's like I don't He doesn't ask for any of these. Well and also it's like implied that she can't keep a job. Like he's like you did you finally get a job or whatever. Yeah. And that's how she like she got this like Mary Kay job. Uh right MLM is had ahead of its time with the MLM contest. It's not a job but okay. Um I don't think this is how Mary Kay work. I don't think people go door to door. Maybe they did and I just don't

50:46 remember. I thought it was Avon. Avon was door to door. I think Avon is also like that. But no, I think both Mary Kay and Avon were like kind of original MLMs. No, I think that it's also much more possible to like actually make a decent amount of money off of them. Yeah, if that makes sense. They're not the model, but statistically, you're almost guaranteed to only lose money on it. Yeah. Um, get that pink car. I feel like we started this discussion in like a very different place and I don't remember what topic originally got us to where Well, I was just trying to find what I like about it. Um, I think we were talking about something about the Shakespeare element and then we got sidetracked by Glee and then it was about his relationship with his mother. I do think the obviously it's important to have all a broad spectrum of queer films, right?

51:32 And like for every for every campy romp there is a brooding uh self-reflective type of story. But I I think like I would it this movie reminded me a lot of dead poet Society actually. Um Oh yeah. because of like the boarding school and like you know um kind of opening up and accepting like literature and and and and like letting that kind of like give you a bigger scope. Is one of the characters gay in that or like implied to be gay? I think it's implied the one that implied the the one that that Yeah. Yeah. Um I I think I think it makes again like I think it makes sense going back to my original point. I think it makes sense how

52:18 serious the tone of this is because this was like probably in terms of just like that's still the reaction. That's still the the like mode that it's Yeah. We're just like it we're in this like cultural morass of s like very like those 2000s conservatism where we were like super n super pro nationalism and like blahy blah kind of men are men right like that energy and I think like for a high school movie it makes sense that that would be I guess the tone cuz like it did suck

53:06 obviously and the adult sphere for gay stories in the 2000s and before was like the AIDS crisis because that was like people that was like an adult kind of that was the thing but like that was the thing is like all all these gay movies in this time they were sat they were sad like there was no gay joy movie like they just didn't in American cinema I feel like they just didn't exist. I shouldn't speak in broad strokes like that because I obviously have never seen every gay movie, but like that was the energy that it was giving. We're This is Post Brokeback Mountain. Another gay sad gay story. Gay story. Yeah. And so this is just a high school version of that. Yeah. Like I think yes,

53:52 it's of a time things are allowed to be of their own time. Yeah. I don't feel watching it now like the seriousness accomplishes anything that like couldn't happen with some joy. Also, I think is why it feels frustrating. Whereas like Brokeback Mountain, I'm not watching it being like, why isn't this more fun? Like I understand what that's trying to do. Yeah. And it it has the same problem that we've actually talked about before where like if you don't if you don't define your antagonists well enough and their positions well enough, they just become like a kind of it's a thing you can easily be like, well, it's so cartoonishly evil that of course no one is really like this, right? Like the the reaction of the

54:38 woman who won't even buy Mary Kay because she referenced that her son was was gay is like I mean like do I believe this happens in the real world fully right like I I am a gay person I believe it but on the other hand it's so it's so bad that it's like okay well why like why did and there's no it's it's weird because it's not a coming out story like he's already out like everybody knows he's gay. That's the That's actually kind of the weirdest part of the entire film. Um and yet there's no explanation of like why he came out. Like you would almost be like, "Well, why did you come out? Like was he forced out? Was there something that happened?" But it doesn't get into that

55:24 either. He's just like out and it's it's not going well. Yeah. It's received poorly by everyone in his life. So you you are left wondering like what made him think that made him do it safe to come out. Yeah, right. That's what I that's why I think the reason why he probably got kicked out or or or left was that his dad discovered it and like was forced in a situation where he had to be like Oh, maybe like almost I mean it felt like how she discovered like Max under the spell like trying to come on to him like something like that maybe. Um, that scene is also crazy though because she clearly doesn't like that he's gay, but then like she doesn't freak out. Like she just like leaves the room and is like, "Oh my gosh." Because she catches like Max like shirtless with him in the closet. What would you What do you expect her to do? Well, this is

56:10 what I I just don't I don't It goes back to the whole thing of like I don't understand the relationship at all because like she's like they try to make her both like a caring concerned mother and also like one of the antagonists. And I think it probably would have just been a smarter decision to make her on his put her on his side like it's them against the world together. And I think it would have been in the joke about the nuance the lack of nuance in the relationship. I think it would have been more interesting if she was supportive but she still had moments. So like the moment where she's like why are you gay? Like if she was like his cheerleader but like was still still had this like and question about it. I think that would be a much more interesting relationship to to see. Yeah. Yeah. or like she didn't want him to she didn't want it to be public like that that could be an interesting why do you have to tell people why do you have to

56:56 I don't care you can be it at home or whatever like it's right at home but like that was the one thing about the like the max scene right when he gets in the spell the the the way they act of being in the the like spell is so sensual it's like and then I think it plays a little bit more comedic later when it's like oh it's clearly like the, you know, the bullies that get turned into it. So, there's like a fun, a little bit more of fun into it. But like Max is so sensual in this that to me it was like, oh, the vibe just got really like Yeah. logo queer movies at night, queer spoke like Well, and also like it it makes you really uncomfortable about the consent of the situation. I feel like because it becomes so physical so fast for the characters that you're like in a way

57:43 where if it was just them like complimenting each other kind of start like I think it would feel more fun. Again, obviously the movie wasn't going for fun. I understand that. But like it's it's a little bit weird to like go immediately to this like extremely physical place with the effect. Well, it's like it's it's the thing that like they do do well doodoo uh in She's the Man, which is the 12th Night reimagining, which is like just falling in love with someone and then them being like uh but like it it there's no physical kind of act upon it. It's just like this this oh, I'm in love with this person. I can't like get them out of my head. But that's the comedy that like Shakespeare is doing it, right? Like and his it's obviously Shakespeare is so language based and so to move it from a language based act into a physical act and like have it

58:30 just go straight to sexual is like like yeah I get the point is like we're trying to discuss sexuality and that's literally what this is right like I I I get I I get it I get it but it's also I'm not even I'm not even necessarily concerned with like the consent necessarily because it's all like it's all potion like it's all kind of I Yeah, I get I get the point but I But I just wish like it could have just been like going for a kiss. Like it it it's the fact that it like gets gets goes takes off his shirt and he goes past first base like immediately. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And it was it's too bad that they didn't lean more into the language part cuz that was one of the more fun elements too is that a lot of the characters that had the potion were then speaking in like Shakespearean kind

59:17 of verse to the person that they were in love with. And I feel like you could have even more with that. I mean, it would take more effort on the film writer part, but it would be more fun. I mean, you wouldn't even need them to speak in like technically like pentameter or anything, but you could just have them speak and like speak in don't have them do the lines, but you could have them just talk in rhyme scheme like just in it's enough that it's like, oh, they've fully like lost their marbles. Like that's fun, right? Yeah. I did like that they uh made the love struck characters like really extreme. While I wish it was less physical, I liked that it was like you wouldn't mistake anyone for just having a genuine crush versus being under the love potion cuz it was like such a such a driving infatuation in a way that no one would actually experience in real life. So

1:00:04 true. The course of true love never did run smooth. The course of true love never did.

1:00:52 No. Isn't it weird though that this movie ends with him still like ending up with the guy and then everyone's like [ __ ] Isn't it weird how this movie ends now? Well, yes. The first of all, they're like magical. It's like m they're all tolerant now, but like they all reverted back like they feel like they don't have the recollection of the spell. Yeah. They like remember it but as a dream, I guess, the same way that like um Bottom does in Midsummer Night's Dream, but then I guess having a dream of falling in love with her friend made them all tolerant, I guess. Yeah, it's uh it is it's a little too it's too neat for a such a serious film. If it was the tone of the prom, then I'd be like, "Of course." Yes. Love it. We love it. Yeah. Yeah. It almost feels like they shouldn't they should have made it go

1:01:38 back to like normal. Like he got this reprieve. He got a respit and then it goes back to every day and you're stuck. You the audience realize like this is just the everyday for these kids. Like then that's the call to action to like change the world that we live in today, right? And I feel like it's really bad here. Not in a in a movie. It changes one person at a time. So like Jonathan, the mom are like the first two and then like it can slowly well because the implication is that Jonathan has liked him all along cuz Jonathan's like kind of the one that like gives him glances and looks and whatever and he hears his solo audition um and he's like I heard you I heard you sing it. I heard you belt, diva. Yeah.

1:02:24 And I'm left. Everyone was outside the door. Everybody heard it. Um, so yeah, but I feel like I feel like it is a stronger choice if after all that he doesn't end up with Jonathan. Maybe there's an inkling that Jonathan has like learned something about himself and we'll come to that realization later. But I think like the strongest thing would have been to like really define this relationship with his mom and then have her fully come around the corner and be like, "Yeah, this isn't like I accept you." Whatever. Just somethingense because she's now doesn't get the doesn't get the love potion. So, she would maybe have the clearest head to like reflect back on what happened. Yeah. Cuz if you didn't get the love potion, then you you do remember a thing or just because everybody got rained on

1:03:10 in the audience that they nobody remembers anything? No, I think I think that she would still remember would be my assumption. I do love that when he turns everybody gay then it makes the mayor declare gay marriage legal in their town and then a bunch of people go get married. And I was like, I do wish that this was a fun film where then we got to see a bunch of people reckoning with like the fact that they are in a legally bindage now because they for 24 hours were under a love potion. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But also like was this when was the when was Prop 8 in California? Like I'm just remembering was this also No, it was 090 I think. Oh 2008. 2008. It was on that ballot. Yep. because there were Yeah, they were like,

1:03:56 "Yeah, I did a I did a Prop 8 project for my senior year and I interviewed a a a couple that got married the in the in between time." Oh, god. Um, and so they were like, "Yeah, we're like one of the few that was able to keep." Yeah. I don't think it's bad. No, it's not bad. Um the performances like again I think the musical performances like I think the lead actor has a really lovely voice. I enjoyed listening to that. I he has a really good voice. We fairies that do run from the presence

1:04:43 of the sun. We follow darkness like a um I liked that the I liked that like while the costumeuming was very 2008 like it did have like a point of view to it, right? Um, I liked I liked when it got into more of like a magical realm because we know that I love a musical number that is not set in the real reality of the space, right? Uh, but I just I won't watch it again. No, no, it it it very much it is an

1:05:31 indie movie and it feels like an indie movie and in it own way there's there's its own charm in watching indie movies. this person's full creative vision. The indiness of it doesn't feel like it's a like a There weren't times where I was like distracted by it or like felt like that was the deterring thing. It really to me felt like pacing and like uh what it's trying to like Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I bet the short goes off. I bet the short is nice. And I would say find this short and I bet try to find the very short. I definitely think this is a great example of like it's very hard to film musical numbers because none of these are filmed well. I have to say um there even like when they

1:06:18 have the rugby players dance in some sequences like it's so it's shot so close that you barely see like the dancing that's happening. It's the strangest I can't even explain how they

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