0:00 what's actually going on in the brain when we're struggling to start a task. >> Dopamine is a neurotransmitter. So, it's a brain chemical is all about reward, focus, control, etc. So, because we're lacking dopamine, that is why we have procrastination and can struggle doing boring things. [music] >> Why does interest completely change what my brain is capable of? >> The minute we're interested [music] in something ooh shiny nice new it's exciting, [music] which is what we need to be able to get a job done. If you do have that internal voice, I can't start the task. I must be lazy. What's wrong with me? When does procrastination heartbreakingly become part of [music] your selfidentity? >> I speak to so many people who were just like, >> can I have just a second of your time? If this podcast has helped you understand your brain or made you feel
0:46 less alone, can you do me one favor? Can you hit the subscribe button? And I'll repay the favor by continuing to book the best and most exclusive conversations on this topic. Please enjoy the episode and always remember you're not broken, just different and you have always been enough. [music] >> Ha, welcome. >> Thanks. >> We're going to talk about why people with ADHD procrastinate. >> Yes. >> And then there's four brainbased ways to to manage it. >> And we've got each one of the four solutions in these cardboard boxes in front of us >> next to that very scary [laughter] looking brain in front of them, which we're going to come to. We're going to get into a little bit of the science. >> Yeah. >> But but first, I really want people to understand why I wanted to have this conversation with you. I know I did. I
1:32 know why I wanted to speak to you about this particular topic. I know that you you've smashed this podcast before. You're behind, I think, the the most viral ADHD chatter clip on social media. [sighs] >> But you have helped thousands of people with ADHD understand their brains. You're an incredible coach. But when you hear the words I just can't start, is there a particular person that comes to mind? >> I have to say with the words I just can't start, I hear it a lot. I coach a lot of people, lots of different ages, male, female from 20s to 60s. I have to say it's mostly women. I'm going to say of a certain age. I'm 48. I can say that. who were late diagnosed, who are
2:18 stuck, who find that they've got to this age, they maybe have just discovered they um have got ADHD through the permenopause or through their children often and they've just gone, "Oh my gosh, I had all my stuff together. I used to be able to smash things out of the park and now I can't." that type of person. What do you think like inside themselves, inside their thoughts, what do you think they think is is wrong with them? >> Well, this is it, isn't it? There's nothing wrong with them, but they feel like there is something. And I often talk about when I'm coaching my clients is almost like obviously being a coach is about looking forward. I'm not a counselor. I'm not a therapist. But actually, when you then get down to the nuts and bolts of it, it's actually that
3:03 as a child, they were often told they were lazy or they weren't, you know, working hard enough. if we're trying hard enough. So now as an adult when, as I say, the wheels are falling off and all feeling a bit wobbly because of hormones, etc. Actually, that's what it is now. But they've got all this self-doubt and they're just going, "Why can't I just do this?" And there's nothing wrong with them. They don't need fixing, but they just need certain strategies to kind of go, "Oh, yeah, let's go." And before your work in the ADHD space, is is that some doubt that you had about yourself personally? Do >> you know what? I have a weird s uh sense of confidence. [laughter] I have to say almost to my downfall and I'm like, I can do that. I could do that. I think there's one of those where I talk to a
3:49 lot of people and they're saying, actually, do you know what? Oh, you've got so much confidence. you've got so much um I don't think of myself as confident at all, but that kind of oh get up and go, but almost with that comes this kind of I don't really think things through. And I wonder if it's more the people that think things through in a good way as you should do that feel a bit more stuck with this because they go, "Well, I can't do that because of X, Y, Zed, these are the things that going to stop me." And it can often be something really small that someone's clinging hold of going, "That's why I can't do it." Cuz we're all about the detail, aren't we? The minutia. and we're kind of like, ooh, that one tiny thing there, but everything else might all be ready and set up to go, but that one thing holds
4:35 us back. >> So, this is so interesting. If we zoom in on that journey a little bit, was there a moment where you realized that this behavior that we call procrastination, it's a very long, serious word for not being able to start something. >> Was there a moment you realized that that behavior wasn't laziness? Yeah, I think it's one of those where I was diagnosed at 43. Okay, so my children were diagnosed autistic, ADHD. They are now 14 and 16. My husband Kelly um off the back of that was diagnosed autistic and then we were all diagnosed with ADHD. So about six years ago, something like that. And I think for me, I would be like, why can't I do that? Why can't I do this? if I just tried harder. Um, why is feeling, you know, cleaning the house, feeling overwhelming, sending
5:21 that email can be the smallest thing, can't it? And actually, I could do all of that beforehand. And then I think there's this real realization once you get diagnosed or self diagnosed and kind of or they have that light bulb moment that that's when it starts to get a bit as I call it like almost wibbly and actually you you could do it before but now you're almost so aware of it whereas before you just think for God's sake why can't I just do that and then you you do it because you had to but then with this new lens that's when it becomes a bit more right okay what does this mean what does lazy look like am Am I lazy? Because often you've been told you are. >> Yes. Gosh. And that's the thing, isn't it? It's like I I've spoken to so many people who have experienced that. Let's just for example focus on the email
6:07 task. They know what they've got to do. They know that they've got an inbox with maybe six or seven unread or unrelied to emails. Like they're not unaware of what needs to be done. They just can't get over that start line. And they genuinely start telling themselves like, >> "What is wrong with me? Why can't I just?" And I think that's the question that we want to address today. And I hope that by the end of this episode, people listening will >> finally understand why getting started feels impossible. And there's four really really cool brainbased methods to to to get over procrastination. Four ingredients that the ADHD mind needs to get started. One in each box. >> Yeah. >> And we're going to go through those in a moment. But but first I want to get a little bit geeky just just for a second just to talk about the actual
6:53 >> the brain and uh I mentioned this horrible terrifying skull in front of us on the table. I'm going >> to pink that brain. >> Yeah. I'm going to pick it up just for a second. I think most people will associate the word dopamine with with ADHD >> and they probably just think oh just just means a lack of dopamine. But what's actually going on in the brain when we when we're struggling to start a task? >> So dopamine is basically a neurotransmitter. Okay. And we often think we're lacking dopamine or people with ADHD don't have dopamine. That's not the case. What it can be is just that we don't know how to get started. We can't almost regulate our dopamine and that is what the issue is. So it's a bit like when you're trying to stream a film on a streaming service and it's buffering. Okay, the connection is buffering. It doesn't mean that there aren't movies on that streaming service. It doesn't mean that
7:39 there are no movies. It just means that actually it's really difficult to get started and then all of a sudden you ramp up your Wi-Fi or I don't know do something technical there and all of a sudden you can watch the movie and you're like oh okay doesn't mean the movie wasn't there and I think dopamine being a neurotransmitter that is what we need I always say to my clients to like fire up the dopamine fired to be able to get things done like send the email like clean the house like do that really boring job like you said we know we've got emails to do but the problem is there's so many elements to an email and then they might reply. [laughter] So all of a sudden you're like hold on I've managed to fire up my dopamine in my lovely squidgy brain but actually what then happens next. >> Yes. So interesting. So it's not
8:25 necessarily an issue with the creation of dopamine. It can just be a lack of ability to transport it to the parts of the brain that are required to get over that start line. >> Yeah. it it just we lack the regulation of dopamine so that we can't regulate it which is why you know if we didn't have dopamine we wouldn't be interested really on me about many things but then that is why we put off doing the email but oh my god let me geek out on I don't know you know cute seals and find out everything I need to know about seals and what's involved I don't know why I thought seals I don't even like them that much but you know but you know get real geeky with a [laughter] certain item or certain topic and that's why it's not We don't have any dopamine. It's just we find it hard to regulate and we need, like you said, we need that
9:12 to get going. And that's why I always say you need to get it fired up. >> Fantastic. Right, without any more hesitation, we're going to move on to the four hacks in front of us in these boxes. Let me take that horrible squishy brain [laughter] off you. >> I quite like it. >> I've got to >> I feel terrible that I gave you that. I'm going to hide. It's pretty It's pretty gross, but you down there. >> How lovely white um the teeth are and so straight on the skull. >> Yeah, they've been to Turkey. They went to Turkey before something bad [laughter] happened. They did look left and right. >> I don't know what happened in Turkey. >> And now they're in the Well, this how they would want to their skull to be used hopefully to help the ADHD community understand dopamine and and how to stop procrastinating. Something they won't have any problem doing now. >> No, [laughter] exactly. >> So, we got four boxes in front of us. Each one has in it a different
9:57 ingredient. And I don't mean a type of food. I mean a way of thinking like an a particular thought process that you need in order to get over procrastination. And we're going to open up the first box now. Ha. >> It's like Christmas. Can you I'm actually I'm like little clap. I'm excited. Okay. >> Yeah. Drum roll. >> Right. In the first box we have a very shiny ball that has written on it >> interest. >> So interest is in interest is interesting. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like cuz for me, I can spend hours researching ancient Egypt or the mating habits of blue whales or outer space, loads of stuff. Like I can spend hours and there's no problem getting started with those tasks. But if you ask me to do my expenses or my tax return,
10:42 it's like I'm pulling a a bag full of bricks up a hill. Yes. >> With barbed wire wrapped around my legs. Like it's physically painful. So, why does interest completely change what my brain is capable of? >> Because it literally fires out that dopamine. The minute we're interested in something, we're like, "Ooh, shiny, nice, new. It's exciting." Which is what we need to be able to get a job done. So, when you have a job that is really boring or a task that is really boring, you have to try and find the interest in it. even if it's really hard to find or reward yourself at the end with that, ooh, I've done it. But that's why we go off on random, you know, deep dives on conspiracy theories or whatever it is
11:29 because that's more interesting than your tax return. >> Yes, that is so interesting. And I mean, the obvious question, I guess you kind of touched on it then, but if if if how do you create interest like artificially create it if you do have to do something that is mundane like a tax return or send an email? Well, you have to almost like fake it. So, you have to trick your brain into thinking that something exciting is going to happen. So, I always think if you've got something really boring to do, you either need to wait till the last minute, which I don't advise, but you need to trick it into going, "Oh, actually, this is exciting." So, a really good example is like returning clothes that you've bought online. >> Oh gosh, that's where all my financial investments are. [laughter] >> All tied up in the boot of your car, probably in returns. And actually what I
12:16 always say to clients is imagine say like you've got to go to the post office or the inbox in post box or whatever. Actually would you do that journey for 20? Let's say the return is worth20. Would you do would you go to your local post office for 20? Yeah actually I probably would go for 20. That's to me that's a mile down the road. It's worth it. That's where the interest comes from. I've linked the amount of money that I'm going to get back from it. Whereas people go, I can't be bothered. Okay. Would you go, let's say it's a 80 pound or 100 pound return? Because quite often we will buy numerous items and then you don't want any of them. Um, actually, would you do that? Would you go to the impost locker? And you got given 100 quid. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'd go I'd go for £100. All
13:01 of a sudden, we've peaked our interest. We've just fired up that dopamine and now not it's become a game, but almost we're not, oh, I'm returning my parcels. was, "Oh, I'm getting 50 quid for this." >> So, so, so cool. So, so almost like you're creating interest in the outcome of the task once you've done it. Returning the clothes, you're going to get money and therefore you can buy something interesting. So, that's the motivation. >> That is such girl math, Alex. [laughter] >> Like, got my money back. Now, I can spend it again. >> And then I go straight in the store next to the place I've returned the item and spend the 20 quid on a candle making set. And the cycle continues. >> Resin making. [laughter] Haven't succumbed yet. Very tempted by resin making kit. >> Fantastic. Right, that is that was urgency. What was that? >> No interest. >> Forget that. Okay, we'll cut that bit.
13:47 [laughter] Maybe keep it in. ADHD. Yeah. >> Right, that was interest. Now in the box number two, Ha, we're going to we're the studio is going to get pretty messy, but that's probably representative of our mind, so that's no problem. Absolutely. Right, number two, Ha. In the box, we have >> the second ingredient that the brain needs to get over procrastination. Novelty. >> Yes. So I when I think of novelty like I here's here's [clears throat] a story. Every January without fail I buy a new notebook. Like I think okay this is this is a shiny new notebook. I go buy a new pen. I go buy new post-it notes and colorful magnets and and it's wicked and my interest is there and I think I can I can achieve amazing things. I'm unstoppable. >> And then about four weeks later if I'm lucky I'm tripping over it. That's good.
14:32 Yeah. [laughter] >> It's like gone. It's gone from my mind. It's absolutely nothing. Um, every January without fail. So, why does something completely new like that notebook transform your motivation towards it? >> I think what it is is there as you say novelty. You think, ooh, fun, shiny. I'm like, oo, even the things behind you on your lovely bookcase is like feels novelty, don't they? They're a bit of fun. >> And actually, I think for that with the notepad, you've almost got into a um bit of a routine there. So, you think, "Oh, it's December, right? I'm going to buy myself a new notepad." You know, I always say a new notepad is not going to change your life. Still going to buy them, aren't we? But what we mean when we say novelty is we need to flip it and we need to go right. Is it that I'm just
15:18 going to buy myself a new pen? The pen's got to feel right, hasn't it? It's got to write nicely. Or actually, I'm going to go and do my work from a cafe, a coffee shop. >> I've got a sitst stand desk. I've been standing. Oh my god, it's made a difference. >> I've just bought a new standing like a walking desk thing like a ergonom ergonomics. Is that >> I know what you mean. Like >> a treadmill under my desk. >> I haven't I haven't got out the box yet. >> Of course [laughter] you haven't. No. And hopefully you can just start walking because if there's any instructions, you're never looking. But yet all of a sudden you are taking what is a mundane task of your emails or whatever it might be and you're you've got that novelty factor and that's what we need. But it
16:03 doesn't mean that you have to go absolutely mad and spend a fortune on things. It can just be doing something a little bit different from the norm. So you with a walking pad, me with my sitst stand desk, it was honestly a game changer and all of a sudden I was like, "Oh, this feels really fun." But I think the novelty is what is needed to be able to get overcome that procrastination. If you think about it like with cleaning, which I know I was on a while ago talking about that. Oh my god, it's so boring. But actually a bit of novelty. Maybe we put some headphones on and our favorite tunes. Or maybe you've got some trash I do love a bit of trash TV. Some trashy TV show that you get to watch whilst you're dusting or cleaning or doing whatever. It adds that novelty factor in rather than just making it really mundane and boring.
16:49 >> Brilliant advice. And I suppose you stay healthy as well. You get your steps in while you're sending that email hopefully. >> And I Googled obviously how many more calories I burned by standing than sitting and it was a surprising amount. >> Incredible. Right. Novelty interest. We're going to come back to the two remaining boxes in a moment. I actually think one of those is the reason that I managed to stick at this podcast for two and a half years. That's in [laughter] number four. So I can't wait to get to that. First, we're going to talk about the things that people with ADHD tell themselves if they go through this cycle of procrastination time and time again. And to demonstrate that point, I'm going to bring out this backpack magically from behind me as if it just appears. And this is very heavy. >> Okay. >> Metaphorically heavy. Bit of imagination. [laughter] >> I was going to get bricks for this segment, but I couldn't find any. So,
17:36 we've got more balls. >> Yes. But I feel like most people with ADHD, if I can find the zip, most people with ADHD, they have this backpack on them all the time, this invisible backpack, and we've got like it's filled with things like lazy, what they tell themselves that they're broken, >> they are unreliable, not trying, >> they have so much potential. And there's a hell of a lot of horrible things in here, >> okay? >> Loads of stuff. Like, how damaging is that to grow up with everyone always telling you you've got so much potential? Well, it just weighs really heavily metaphorically and literally, doesn't it? So, if you imagine you do have your metaphorical backpack on with bricks and if someone can just take one out and make it lighter, and I say this a often
18:21 when I do I've not coached parents for a while, I have to say, but I used to do a lot of parenting workshops for parents of children with ADHD. And I would say, you have a backpack of bricks or a child does, just help remove a brick. Just help make life a bit easier. If you're constantly told you're rubbish, you're useless, you're not trying hard enough. Actually, of course, it's going to be damaging. You know, if I was in a relationship and I was told constantly, well, you're lazy, you know, you're not trying hard enough. You should do. I wouldn't be in that relationship, would I? Because that would be so damaging. But what we do is we talk to ourselves like that. Or I have to say if there's any parents listening or if you've got young people in your life, like really swap up that narrative. Okay? So, don't be saying, "Oh, you should try harder," or, "You're being lazy," or like, it's
19:06 almost a bit like mentioning the diet word, which I would just never mention. Don't call your child lazy. Just say, "Come on, let's do this together." Right? The chances are if they've got ADHD, you you're trying to break that generational cycle because you don't then want a child to then grow up and they've got all these negative words almost floating around them. And it's they say, don't they, a child by the time they're 12 received 20,000 more negative comments. I have to caveat that with that wasn't an actual study. That was a psychologist who'd worked it out roughly. But I think that 20,000 comments people can associate with and I think people go, "Oh, okay." And it's about switching it up and and knowing that actually you need to start going, "Do you know what? I'm giving myself permission to not do that. This is okay
19:54 to not do the washing up." No one lies on their deathbed and said, "I wish I've done more cleaning." Do they? >> Yeah. No. Exactly. And it I think it was William Dodson who who sort of coined the phrase rejection sensitivity dysphoria and and estimated that neurody divergent children are on the receiving end of 20,000 extra horrible comments like you're too sensitive too dramatic too much all of those nasty stuff all of these balls really that end up carrying around like as a consequence of that how often do you think ADHD >> becomes shame? Oh, so often I you know I speak to so many people who were just like if only I could just if I just did this if I just found the special secret that I could unlock this if I wasn't so lazy. If I just tried harder. Just is such an a damaging word
20:42 really isn't it? Because it's like well if I just did it you know I'm 4 foot 11. if I was just taller. Okay, but I'm not like, you know, just is such a you don't you don't want to be a just, do you? You It's about reframing it and being like, "Yeah, actually, I am enough." >> And you know, this is what I do with my clients. Oh, >> just this, just that. I'm like, "No, stop." >> Like, it's really hard for us ADHDers to have that confidence to go, "Yeah, do you know what? Actually, I'm really good at this." Whereas quite often it's like, "Yeah, no, I'm not not bad." What do you mean you're not bad? Yes. Yeah. >> Does that make sense? >> No, totally. I think that's the heart of this whole conversation. I think the next piece really is the most heartbreaking thing having spoken to so many people in the community and all of
21:27 this criticism that we get and circling back to the focus of this episode, which I think is one of the hardest parts of ADHD is that procrastination. >> If you do have that internal voice, I can't start the task. I must be lazy. What's wrong with me? When does procrastination heartbreakingly become p part of your self-identity? >> I imagine it probably happens a lot. And I think this is why you need to try to be able to differentiate between actually I'm not procrastinating because I'm lazy. I'm procrastinating because I find it really hard to regulate my dopamine and because I've got ADHD. Now that's quite a mouthful to say to you as a little mantra, isn't it? But actually, I think it's about realizing that there is a difference. It's not that people
22:15 are lazy. It's just actually this isn't interesting enough for me or there isn't enough urgency or it's not novelty enough for me. It's not exciting enough. That's what we're looking for. Our brains are constantly sort of scouring for ooh fun, shiny, interesting. Well, tax returns or cleaning or sending emails. It's not that we don't care either. I think this is what a lot of us say. Well, well, I obviously don't care if I can't send that email. But actually, the chances are we've been carrying around the weight of that email in the shower out walking the dog. We are constantly thinking about it. When we then go, "Oh my god, I need to send this email. I'm going to get fired or I'm not going to, you know, I'm going to lose that client or whatever it is." We send that email and then the person
23:00 replies >> and we start all over again with this, "Oh my goodness, me." And it's it's the weight of what is happening and the feeling. It's not actually the activity. It's the feeling that we're gonna get from when that happens. >> Yes. God, that is the worst most frustrating thing when you send an email or a text message that maybe you've been putting off for days and they reply straight away. [laughter] >> I always feel bad because I am that reply straight away. So am I. Oh no. You made me realize I'm a terrible I am cuz I like just get things done forget. Otherwise I forget. Yeah. Yeah. Like is that's even Spider-Man where he sees himself. We are the same. [laughter] >> Yeah. Just like Right. And I saw I think she was like a CEO and she had like five kids. She's amazing woman. Isn't that funny that I think that's amazing because she's got five kids and she's a
23:46 CEO. But anyway, she was saying almost she just gets stuff off her list. So as in if she sees an email, she will reply straight away and I think that's why I'm the instant replyer because I'm either an instant reply or I'm sort of five working days minimum [snorts] kind of thing. So sorry to interrupt your hyperfocus, but I promise it's worth it. Our sponsor is Teemo, the best organizational tool for neurode divergent people. Teemo wasn't named iPhone app of the year in 2025 by Apple for no reason. It's the ultimate planning partner, gently helping you turn the chaos in your head into a day that actually feels doable. A day you might even look forward to. Teemo is designed by neurode divergent brains for neurode divergent brains. And you can tell it supports the stuff ADHD brains can find hardest. Managing time,
24:32 planning what needs doing, prioritizing tasks, staying focused, and actually finishing the thing. And the great news is Teemo is now back on Android. The app on Android is still being built up to match the iOS experience with even more features in the works. So, if you're an Android user and you've been waiting to try it, you can now use Teemo's core features, too, including your daily plan, multiple to-do lists, and AI prioritization to help you figure out what to focus on first. Teemo offers a visual way to plan your day without relying on willpower, memory, or a million sticky notes, helping you break down your daily agenda into something clear, calm, and actually possible. Give it a go and use the link in my bio for 30% off. Just a note though, the code only works in the web browser, not in
25:18 the smartphone app. Back to the episode. And that actually leads us really nicely onto the the third box. Number three, the third hack for for getting over procrastination. And let's open it. >> Okay. >> We should have had a little drum roll. >> We should have done. Yeah. Do a little tap [laughter] the box again. Yeah. Yeah. Run out of money. Well, they've all got on the balls. We got no money for >> We now need a ball pit somewhere. Surely >> giving me ideas for another episode [laughter] now. I have to have you back. Some chair hanging over a ball pit. answer the question properly or you get >> very null head isn't it that I'm loving it >> right in box number three Ha the third way to the third ingredient that the ADHD mind needs to get over procrastination challenge >> so I mean this one doesn't make sense to me this is the one I find most confusing
26:04 because if you ask me to clear clear out a cupboard yeah in my flat like I I won't I find it considerably challenging yes >> but if you say you've got one hour to design a podcast that my brain lights up and I just go go go go go go. >> Why is putting a challenge around a task? Why can that be so helpful? >> Because it puts a time limit on it. It creates a sense of I must do this now. Also, obviously designing something to do with a podcast or like I joke about how many domain names you own or logos or whatever. >> So [laughter] many. Because it's really fun, isn't it? And it's exciting. How many cupboards are you going to clean out today? Oh gosh, just boring, dull, whatever. But if you gify it, if you put a challenge around it. So I have to say cleaning out a cupboard, you need it
26:49 short, sharp, and snappy. 15 minutes. How much of this cupboard can you clean out in 15 minutes? And I always say my house is never tidier than when someone is coming around in 20 minutes. If I have 3 hours, if I have the whole afternoon to clean, well, I will take the whole afternoon. If I have 20 minutes, if there's a challenge involved, my dopamine's fired up and I'm like, let's go. And I set a timer um a little while ago and I think it was like 10 minutes or 12 minutes like really short time and I kept thinking this is going to run out soon. Like this is when obviously it literally is but I was like I must nearly be at the deadline and I was like I've got I think it was 12 minutes. I've got 12 minutes to tidy up as much as I can. And I looked and I'd still got like 3 minutes left because I was just on this whirling derbish. Or
27:35 sometimes Kelly and my husband and I will be like, "Right, it is 5:30. We're going to sit down at 10 to 6. >> Let's go. Let's see how tidy we can make this house in 20 minutes. >> It or let's see how many emails we can reply to." >> Yeah. Such a good idea. >> When you've got a challenge involved, all of a sudden it fires up the dopamine again, the neurotransmitter, and it's exciting. >> Such a good idea. You know when you go on a drive and you go through a tunnel and you have to like hold your breath. Can you hold your breath for as long as it takes to get out the other end of the tunnel and that's kind of the most fun part of the whole drive sometimes? So I thought, well, I don't recommend this event, [laughter] but I tried hold my breath and see if I can empty tidying a particular room or emptying the dishwasher during the time I can hold my breath. Okay. >> And for me, that's wicked. I genuinely look forward to doing those things. >> What an amazing hack. Not I'm not being
28:20 sarcastic. That sounds amazing. >> Oh, I've been doing that for or the holding the breath one. Another one which really helps seeing if I can get through my favorite song. >> Yes, >> cuz that's roughly about the same time. Probably a bit long cuz I can't hold my breath for more than like 2 minutes. But the song is like three and a half. >> Well, Bohemian Rapsidity, you are [laughter] screwed. >> 7 minutes in, we're like, we've lost Alex. You'll be the skull. >> Could have a shower. >> Yeah. Yeah. But you're right. It's about having Well, I'm going to say it's about having fun and putting a timer. But depending on who you are. So, my son's 14. Not so much now. When he was younger, a timer was not the one. Any game that involved a timer was far too stressful, was actually hideous. It would all go wrong. So, be mindful of what you find exciting. Because
29:07 actually, like anything with ADHD, isn't it? Or all ADHD, it doesn't always work all the time. So, actually, some people might be listening to this or watching going, "A timer? Are you kidding me? I could think of nothing worse. That is super stressful." But I do think a song or something like that can be really fun and it doesn't then mean that that song ends. It can go into another one or whatever. So it's it's it one size doesn't fit all, does it? So it's almost about going, do you know what? I'll give that a try. Actually, that worked. That didn't. One thing I do want to say quickly is don't ever use like needing a Wii or food as a reward. How often are we like, I need a wee. I'm just going to get this done. Oh, now I can go for a week. Like no. I can't believe I've said the word we so many times. [laughter] But I just think all the same being thirsty or hungry. So we should never use food or like being able to have a
29:54 break as a reward because I think again that spills into that narrative I'm lazy, I'm this, I'm that. Actually, you don't have to earn rest. Okay? You don't have to earn a drink or earn food. You are allowed to just have that. That is a basic human right. >> So interesting. I want to get to the fourth box, which I think I honestly think when I read that it's the most helpful tool to beat ADHD procrastination. I think this is the one that's enabled me to do this podcast for three and a half years without getting bored. Um, >> this is the final ingredient, is it? >> This is the one. If we needed a drum roll for anything, I feel like what I can do is I can shake the ball. >> That's probably really annoying on the audio. [laughter] >> I'm quite here for that. [gasps] In box number four, the final ingredient that the brain needs to combat
30:40 procrastination is urgency. >> So this one I think is is I understand this one the most because >> if there is an email, going back to the email example, I can put it off for weeks and weeks and weeks, months sometimes. I've got like, you know, 5,000 unread emails, but if there is one that suddenly has a deadline looming, >> I'm at my computer, I'm tapping away, and it is sent in a heartbeat. >> Like the the the the ability to show up was always there. It almost like just needed a a deadline to get me over that start line. So, why does urgency unlock a version of me that I can't access the rest of the time? >> Again, because it fires up that dopamine. kind of bit like a timer all of a sudden. I love how you're like and
31:26 I've just done it even though you've procrastinated for months over it. But it is that kind of thing where all of a sudden it's like pretending someone's coming around to your house or someone is coming around and you've got 20 minutes. It's that's the real life example, isn't it? Urgency is the feeling we have when we're like, "Right, we can now finally do this thing." The problem with urgency is that it can then lead to burnout. We can then think, "Oh, I'm always going to wait last minute for everything." But actually that sense of urgency that we think and we do need, but actually it's not necessarily that we thrive best on that. It's just that is the final piece of the jigsaw, the final ball in your ballp.
32:13 That can actually be mean that you end up in burnout or you're running on empty. >> So interesting, Ha. I don't think I've ever seen the ADHD chatter studio so messy before. >> I feel [laughter] bad and I wasn't even part of it. >> I got to set a timer after you go and tidy it up in in a minute. >> Can I just say when the children were little, if we used to go to a soft play and the balls would go everywhere, what they would do is they would the staff would get the children to pick up the balls and then they'd be given a lollipop. >> They were all about it. They knew, didn't they? Yes, >> they knew what they were doing. That is the reward is the [laughter] lollipop. >> So cool. Right, I'm going to urgently move on. Right, Ha, just before we go, I've got a surprise for you. And >> I see I love surprises. >> Weirdly, cuz I'm a geek, I actually know that the next section of the show, which is relatively new, gets 30% of the
32:58 comments on the YouTube. And we only started it a few months ago, and now it just seems to be such a popular part of the show. Okay. >> And it is, I'm going to deliver to you a letter. >> Yes. that was written by the previous guest where they wrote a letter to their younger self. And to connect all the guests together, I deliver that letter to the next guest, which is you. >> Am I going to cry? >> Well, the last guest did, so no pressure. >> No. [laughter] Okay. I'm quite emotional at the best of times. Right. Thank you. >> If you could kindly read the previous guest's letter to their younger self, >> I just say, "What a lovely envelope." >> They're nice, aren't they? >> Really nice. That's a quality envelope. >> Yeah. That's where the money goes. That's where the budget goes. >> Right. Let's have a little Oh, this is young. Is it long? >> Really? Yeah, sort of. Yeah, it's >> No, not bad. >> Dear younger me, I know you think you are the problem. I know you wonder why everyone else seems to know the rules of
33:45 life while you're making them up as you go. Why friendships feel harder. Why your emotions are bigger. Why teachers tell you just to concentrate. Why you try so hard and yet somehow end up believing you're not trying at all. There will come a day when you stop raising your hand and you'll stop saying what's on your mind. You'll laugh when everyone else laughs, even when you don't understand the joke. You'll become so good at pretending to be someone else, that for a while, you'll forget who you really are. And that will hurt more than anything. You'll spend years chasing the feeling of finally being enough. You'll work harder, achieve more, build things that people admire, hoping that if you achieve enough, the feeling that something is wrong with you will finally disappear. But it won't.
34:33 Because the thing you were trying to fix was never broken. One day, someone will explain ADHD to you. Not as a list of symptoms, but as an explanation, and suddenly your entire life will make sense. The forgotten homework, the racing mind, the loneliness, the shame, the feelings that you were always one mistake away from disappointing everyone. You'll cry for the child who spent so many years apologizing for simply being themselves. But you'll also smile because you'll realize something that changes everything. You were never lazy. You were never too much. You were never not enough. You were a child trying to survive in a world that didn't understand how your brain worked. So please don't spend your childhood
35:18 wishing you were more like everyone else. One day, the very things you spent your life trying to hide will become the things that help other people feel seen. The parts of you that made you feel different will become someone else's hope. And if I could tell you just one thing, it's this. Don't waste another second trying to become someone you're not. The person you've been looking for your whole life has been you all along. >> Wow. Gosh, thank you for reading that so amazingly, Ha. Such a fun fun episode. and on behalf of everyone grappling to understand their brains and uniquely why they struggle to start tasks. Thank you so much. >> Thank you for having me. >> [music]
