0:00 Hello everyone and welcome to English Conversation Podcast. This is your place for natural English practice and easy daily conversation. Hi there, I'm Mike. And I'm Sarah. We're really happy you're here today. Before we jump in, we'd like to ask you for one small thing. Yes, if you're enjoying this podcast, please hit the like button and subscribe. It really helps other English learners discover our channel. And if you feel like it, leave a comment below. Even something super simple, like how you feel about speaking English or what challenges you face. We genuinely love hearing from you. And you know what? When you type a comment, you're actually practicing English without even realizing it. That's true. Your brain is working, choosing vocabulary, putting words in order. It's real practice.
0:48 Though don't be nervous about writing. One sentence is totally fine. Alright, let's get into today's topic. Today we're talking about something really important. something that I think weighs on a lot of English learners. What's that? This feeling that your English needs to be perfect before you can really use it, before you can call yourself fluent. Oh yeah, that's huge. I feel like so many people are stuck in this place where they're waiting. Waiting for what, though? Waiting to be perfect, I guess. Waiting until they sound like a native speaker. Waiting until they never make mistakes. And that's what we want to talk about today, because I don't think that waiting ever ends. It doesn't. Perfect never arrives. No, it doesn't. So today we're going to explore why you don't need
1:34 perfect English to be fluent and what fluency really means. And hopefully by the end of this conversation, you'll feel a bit lighter, a bit more free to just speak. So let's start with a question. Mike, when someone says they want to be fluent in English, what do you think they really mean? I think… I think most people imagine fluency as speaking without any mistakes. Speaking smoothly, confidently, sounding native. Right. Like, there's no hesitation, no searching for words, no accent that gives away where you're from. Exactly. This image of perfect, effortless English. But is that what fluency actually is? I don't think so. I mean, even native speakers hesitate. We search for words sometimes. We make grammar mistakes in casual conversation. We
2:23 do, all the time, actually. But when a non-native speaker does the same thing, they think it means they're not fluent yet. Right. There's this double standard. There is. And I think it creates so much unnecessary pressure. It does. I've met people who've been speaking English for 10, 15 years, and they still say, oh, my English is bad, I'm still learning. Even though they can communicate everything they need to communicate. Exactly. So clearly their definition of good English is something unrealistic. It is. And I think that's where we need to start, by questioning what we think fluency means. So what do you think fluency means? I think fluency is about flow. It's about being able to express your thoughts, even if it's not elegant or perfect. Being able to keep the
3:11 conversation going. Right. Being able to participate, to connect with people, to say what you need to say. Not performing. Just communicating. Exactly. But I think a lot of people see it as a performance, like they're being judged every time they speak. And that kills the natural flow, doesn't it? It does. Because when you're focused on how you sound, you can't focus on what you're saying. Your brain is split in two. One part trying to communicate, the other part criticizing every word. Yeah, and that's exhausting. It is. So where does that pressure come from? Why do people feel they need to be perfect? I think it comes from a lot of places. School, definitely. You know, the way English is taught in so many countries. It's all about correctness. Yeah,
3:59 like there's one right way to speak. One right accent. One right pronunciation. And if you don't hit that standard, you're somehow failing. But that's so strange when you think about it, because what even is a native speaker? I mean, there are so many different English accents in the world. Oh, absolutely. Someone from London sounds completely different from someone from Scotland. And someone from New York sounds nothing like someone from Texas. Exactly. So when someone says, I want to sound like a native speaker, which native speaker are they talking about? Right? It's such an unclear goal. It's like chasing something that doesn't even exist as one single thing. And I think social media makes it worse now, too. How so? Well, you're constantly seeing these
4:47 videos of people who are incredibly fluent or who have these beautiful accents and you compare yourself to them. Right. And you forget that you're seeing the highlight reel. You're not seeing all the mistakes they made along the way. Exactly. You're just seeing the polished version. And then you judge your own messy, everyday English against that. Which is so unfair to yourself. It really is. And I think with English, because it's become this global language, there's this extra layer of pressure. What do you mean? Like, it's not just about communicating. It feels like you're being judged every time you open your mouth. Like there's an invisible audience scoring you. God, that's exhausting just thinking about it. It is. And I think that's why so many people freeze when they try to speak English, even when they know the words. Yeah, it's like your brain
5:36 is split in two. One part is trying to communicate and the other is just criticizing every word that comes out. Exactly. You're monitoring yourself in real time and that kills the flow. It does. I mean, think about when you speak your native language. You don't think about grammar. You don't think about whether your accent is correct. You just talk. Right. There's no pressure. You trust that what you say will be understood. But with English, for so many people, that trust isn't there. There's always this voice in the back of their head saying you're doing it wrong. Even when they're not. Even when they're not. Yeah, so let's talk about where that voice comes from. I think it's a combination of things. Teachers who corrected every little
6:21 mistake. Exams that made you feel like perfection was the only acceptable standard. Maybe even other people's reactions, you know? Like if someone didn't understand you once and you felt embarrassed, that memory sticks with you. Yeah, those moments can really shape how you feel about speaking. They can. And the thing is, native speakers make mistakes all the time. We stumble over words, we forget what we were going to say, we use incorrect grammar in casual conversation. But somehow, when a non-native speaker does the same thing, it feels like proof that they're not good enough. That's such a double standard. It really is. And I think it's important to realize that, you know, that native speakers aren't walking around speaking perfect English. We're just speaking and people understand us
7:09 anyway. Right. Communication isn't about perfection. It's about connection. Exactly. It's about getting your meaning across. It's about being part of the conversation. But I think when you're learning a language or when you're still building confidence in it, it's hard to see it that way. Yeah. And I wonder how much of that is just fear. You know, fear of being judged, fear of not being taken seriously. That's a real thing. People do make assumptions based on accents. They do. And it's not fair, but it happens. And I think people who speak English as a second or third language, they're very aware of that. So they try to protect themselves by sounding as correct as possible. Right. They try to erase anything that might make them stand out or seem different. They try to sound... neutral or invisible in a way. But
7:57 that's such a sad way to approach language, isn't it? Because language is supposed to be about expressing yourself. It is. And if you're constantly trying to hide who you are, how can you really do that? You can't. You end up losing your voice in the process. And I think that's what we wanted to talk about today. Because I feel like there's this quiet suffering that a lot of people go through with English. They're capable. They're intelligent. They have things to say. But they don't say them because they're waiting to be perfect first. And perfect never comes. No, it doesn't. Because perfection isn't a real thing. It's just an idea we torture ourselves with. Yeah. And meanwhile, life is happening. Conversations are happening. Opportunities are passing by. All because someone convinced you that your English isn't good enough yet. Right. But good enough
8:45 for what? Good enough for who? That's the question, isn't it? It is. I mean, if people can understand you, if you can express your thoughts, if you can participate in conversations, isn't that already fluency? I think it is, but I don't think most people see it that way. No, because I think fluency has this image attached to it. It sounds like something shiny and perfect. Like it's this finish line you have to cross. Exactly. And once you cross it, then you're finally a real English speaker. But that's such a harmful way to think about it. It is, because it keeps people stuck. They're always waiting, always preparing, always thinking, not yet, I'm not ready yet. Even after years? Even after years, yeah. So let's talk about what happens when
9:31 people carry this pressure around. Good idea, because I think that pressure shows up in different ways for different people. It does. Some people just go silent. They stop trying to speak because the fear is too much. Right, they withdraw completely. Yeah, they're And then other people, they keep speaking, but they're so tense about it that it doesn't even feel like communication anymore. It feels like walking on eggshells. Oh, I know exactly what you mean. It's like every sentence is a test you might fail. Exactly. And you're listening to yourself more than you're listening to the other person. Which is such a strange experience when you think about it. Because in a real conversation, you should be present with the other person. You should be responding to what they're saying, reacting naturally. But if you're too busy worrying about your pronunciation or your grammar, you can't
10:18 do that. No, you're stuck in your own head. You're not really there. And I think that's one of the saddest parts of this whole thing, because language is supposed to connect people. But when you're that afraid, it actually isolates you. It does. You're physically in the conversation, but mentally you're somewhere else. You're in this loop of self-criticism. Yeah, and I wonder how many interesting thoughts, how many good ideas just never get shared because someone decided their English wasn't good enough to say them. Oh, probably thousands, millions even. It's a huge loss, really. Not just for them, but for everyone. Because we're missing out on their perspective, their voice. We are. And they're probably the ones with the most interesting things to say, you know? Because they've lived in different cultures.
11:05 They see things from different angles. Right, but instead of sharing that, they're worried about whether they use the right preposition. Exactly, which in the bigger picture doesn't matter at all. It doesn't. I mean, I think about conversations I've had with people who speak English as a second language, and honestly, I've never once cared about their grammar. Same. I care about what they're telling me. I care about their ideas. And usually, I don't even notice mistakes unless they actually prevent me from understanding. And that's pretty rare. Yeah, it is rare because people are usually much clearer than they think they are. They are, but they don't trust that. They don't trust that they're being understood. So what would it take for someone to trust that? Like, how do you go from feeling like every word is wrong to feeling like you can just speak? I don't
11:52 know if there's one answer to that, but I think part of it is changing what you think fluency means. How so? Well, I think a lot of people think fluency means speaking perfectly. No pauses, no mistakes, no hesitation. Just smooth, effortless English. Like water flowing. Yeah, exactly. But that's not what fluency actually is. I mean, even in your native language, you pause, you search for words sometimes. Right. Fluency isn't about perfection. It's about flow. And flow can include pauses. Exactly. Flow is about continuity, not flawlessness. It's about being able to keep going, to express what you need to express, even if it's not elegant. And I think that's such an important distinction, because if you're waiting for elegant, you might never speak.
12:39 No, you won't, because elegant takes time and practice, and you can't practice if you're not speaking. It's like this paradox. You need to speak to get better, but you won't speak because you don't think you're good enough yet. Right, so you're stuck. And I think the only way out of that is to change the goal, to stop aiming for native level perfection and start aiming for connection. Yeah, can I communicate what I mean? Can the other person understand me? That should be enough. It should be, but I think for a lot of people, it doesn't feel like enough. No, it doesn't, because they've internalized this idea that anything less than perfect is failure. Which is such a harsh way to treat yourself. It is, and I think it comes from years of being corrected. You know, in school, every mistake is marked in red pen.
13:26 Every mispronunciation is pointed out. So you learn to see your English as something full of errors, not as something functional and alive. Right. You're trained to notice what's wrong, not what's working. Exactly. And that focus on errors, it stays with you. Even when you're out in the real world, having real conversations, you're still looking for the red pen. But the real world doesn't care about red pens. The real world just wants to understand you. It does. And most people are pretty generous listeners, actually. They want to understand you. They're not sitting there judging your grammar. Unless you're in some kind of formal situation, maybe. But even then, as long as you're clear, that's what matters. Yeah. And I think this is where confidence comes in, too. Because confidence changes how
14:13 your English sounds. Oh, absolutely. You can say the same sentence two different ways, one with confidence and one with fear, and it lands completely differently. It does. When you're confident, even if you make mistakes, people focus on what you're saying, not how you're saying it. Right, but when you're nervous and apologetic, people start to notice the mechanics more because you're drawing attention to them. Yeah, it's like you're pointing out your own mistakes before anyone else can. Which I think people do as a protection mechanism. Like if I say my English is bad first, then no one else can say it. Oh, that's true. It's a way of controlling the narrative. But it also reinforces the idea that your English is bad. You're literally telling yourself and everyone else
14:59 that you're not good enough. And after a while, you start to believe it, even if it's not true. Even when all the evidence points to the opposite. Even when you're successfully communicating every day. Right, because the story you tell yourself is more powerful than the reality. So how do you change that story? I think you have to start noticing the moments when communication works instead of only noticing the mistakes. Like actively looking for proof that you're understood? Yeah, because it's there. It happens all the time. But if you're only focused on what went wrong, you miss it. That makes sense. It's like training your brain to see a different picture. Exactly. Because right now, a lot of people's brains are trained to see failure, even when they're succeeding. And
15:46 that's exhausting, to constantly feel like you're failing when you're actually doing fine. It is. It's this constant background stress. Yeah, and I think that stress affects how you speak, too. Like, when you're stressed, your brain doesn't work as well. Oh, definitely. When you're anxious, you can't access languages easily. Words that you know just disappear. Right. It's like they're locked behind this wall of fear. And then you get frustrated with yourself, which makes the anxiety worse, which makes it even harder to find the words. It's a spiral. It is. And I think a lot of people don't realize that the problem isn't their English. The problem is the emotional state they're in when they try to speak. Yeah. If you're calm and relaxed, your English flows much better. But
16:33 if you're tense and worried, everything becomes harder. So in a way, working on fluency isn't really about studying more grammar or memorizing more words. It's about creating a feeling of safety. I think that's exactly right. It's about giving yourself permission to speak as you are, without judgment. Now, let's talk about practical things you can do to start changing this, because it's one thing to understand the problem, but another thing to actually shift how you feel. Good idea. Let's give our listeners some concrete steps they can take. Okay, step one, start noticing when you're being too hard on yourself. Yes, pay attention to that critical voice in your head. What is it saying? Is it being fair? Most of the time it's not. Most of the time it's holding
17:20 you to an impossible standard. Right, so just becoming aware of it is the first step. You can't change something you don't notice. Step two, look for evidence that you're communicating successfully. Yeah, after a conversation in English, Ask yourself, did they understand me? Did the conversation flow? And if the answer is yes, acknowledge that. Give yourself credit. Don't just focus on the one word you mispronounced. Notice that the whole conversation worked. Exactly. Train your brain to see what's working, not just what's wrong. Step 3. Practice speaking without monitoring yourself so much. How do you do that? Well, you could record yourself having a casual conversation, maybe talking about your day or
18:06 describing something you saw. And then when you listen back, instead of criticizing every mistake, listen for whether your meaning is clear. Right. Ask yourself, if I were listening to this for the first time, would I understand what I'm trying to say? And if the answer is yes, that's fluency. That's what you're aiming for. Step four, find safe spaces to practice. What do you mean by safe spaces? Places where you can speak without fear of judgment, maybe with a patient friend or in a language exchange where everyone is learning. Oh, that's important because you need to experience what it feels like to speak without that constant pressure. You do. And once you know what that feels like, you can start to recreate it in other situations. Step five, challenge your
18:53 perfectionism. Yes. When you catch yourself thinking, I can't speak until I'm perfect, ask yourself, is that true? Can you think of times when you communicated successfully even though you made mistakes? Because I bet you can. I bet there are dozens, maybe hundreds of times. Right. So the belief that you need to be perfect is just not based on reality. It's not. And you can prove that to yourself by looking at your own experience. Step 6. Redefine what fluency means to you. This is big. Write down what you think fluency is. Really think about it. And then ask yourself, is this definition helpful? Is it realistic? If your definition is speaking like a native with no accent and no mistakes, that might not be helpful
19:40 because it's setting you up to always feel like you're failing. Right. But if your definition is being able to express my thoughts and be understood, suddenly you might already be fluent. You might be. And that shift in perspective can change everything. It can. Now, let's talk about some common situations where this pressure really shows up and what you can do about it. Good idea. What's one situation? Job interviews. A lot of people say they freeze up when they have to speak English in a professional setting. Yeah, that's a high-pressure situation for sure. So what can you do? Well, first, remember that they're listening to what you're saying, not how perfectly you're saying it. They want to know if you can do the job. Right. Your skills and experience are what matter, not your accent. Exactly. So focus on communicating your value clearly,
20:30 rather than trying to sound perfect. And it's okay to pause and think. It's okay to say, let me think about that for a moment. That actually shows thoughtfulness, not weakness. Another situation is social events, meeting new people in English. Oh, that can be nerve-wracking too. What helps there? I think remembering that most people just want to have a nice conversation. They're not testing you. Right. They're probably a bit nervous too, actually. They are. So if you can focus on being interested in them, asking questions, listening, the pressure comes off you a bit. Yeah, it's not a performance. It's just two people getting to know each other. Exactly. And if you make a mistake, most people won't even notice. Or if they do, they won't care. Another situation is presentations or
21:17 speaking in front of groups. That's probably the hardest one for a lot of people. It is. So what can help? Well, preparation definitely helps. Knowing your content really well means you can focus less on finding the right words. Right. You're not searching for information and searching for language at the same time. Exactly. And also, remember that the audience wants you to succeed. They're not hoping you'll fail. They're just there to learn something or hear what you have to say. Right. So even if your English isn't perfect, if you have valuable information, people will listen. They will. Content matters more than accents. It does. Now, let's address something important. What if someone genuinely doesn't understand you? Oh, that's a fear a lot of people have.
22:04 It is. So let's talk about what to do when that happens. First, don't panic. It's completely normal. Even native speakers sometimes aren't understood. Yeah. Maybe the other person wasn't paying attention, or there was background noise, or they just missed what you said. Right. It doesn't automatically mean your English is bad. No. So what you do is you calmly rephrase what you said. Use different words, maybe speak a bit slower. Yeah. And you can even say, let me say that another way. That's totally fine to say. It's not admitting defeat. It's just clarifying. Exactly. Communication is collaborative. You're working together to understand each other. And if they still don't understand after a couple of tries, you can write it down or use a gesture or find another
22:51 way. Right. There are always options. One miscommunication doesn't mean you can't speak English. No. It just means that particular moment didn't work and you find another way. Yeah. And usually after you clarify, the conversation just continues normally. It does. It's not as big a deal as people think it is. It's not. But I think people catastrophize it in their minds. They think one misunderstanding means total failure. When really, it's just the normal part of any conversation. Exactly. Now, let's talk about something else. The role of your accent. Oh, this is important because I think a lot of people worry about their accent. They do. They think their accent is holding them back. But is it really? Usually, no. I mean, as long as you're clear,
23:38 your accent doesn't matter. Right. There are so many different English accents in the world. Indian English, Nigerian English, Singaporean English. Australian, Irish, Scottish, South African. Exactly. And they're all valid. They're all real English. They are. So why should a Spanish accent or a Korean accent or an Arabic accent be any different? It shouldn't. An accent just tells people where you're from. It's part of your identity. It is. And trying to eliminate it completely is actually trying to erase part of who you are. Which seems sad when you put it that way. It is sad. I mean, your accent carries your history. It tells a story about you. Right. And for most communication, clarity matters way more than accent. It does.
24:25 Can people understand your words? That's the main thing. And if they can, your accent is fine. Yeah. Now, that said, there are some pronunciation things that can affect clarity. Like what? Like word stress or certain sounds that might be confusing, but those are specific, fixable things. Right. It's not about changing your whole accent. It's about making sure certain key words are clear. Exactly. You can work on clarity without trying to sound native. And that's a much more realistic goal. It is. And it doesn't require you to change who you are. Just to be understood clearly, which is the whole point anyway. Right. Now, let's talk about mistakes, because I think people's relationship with mistakes is at the heart of this whole issue. It really is.
25:13 The fear of making mistakes is what keeps people silent. It does. So let's think about what mistakes actually are. Okay, what are they? They're just part of learning. They're information. They show you what you need to work on. Right. They're not a reflection of your worth as a person. No, they're just linguistic events. They happen and then you move on. But people don't see them that way. They see them as failures. They do. And I think that comes from school, where mistakes mean losing points. Right. But in real conversation, there are no points. There's no score. No, there's just communication. And if the communication worked, Even with mistakes, then it was successful. Exactly. The goal isn't zero mistakes. The goal is successful communication. And those
26:01 are very different things. They are. You can have successful communication with lots of mistakes. You can. And you can have technically perfect grammar but fail to connect with anyone. Right. So which one matters more? Connection matters more. Always. Always. So when you make a mistake, instead of spiraling into shame, just notice it and keep going. Yeah. You can even correct yourself if you want. Like, oh, I meant to say X, not Y. That's totally natural. Native speakers do that all the time. We do. It's not a sign of weakness. It's just part of speaking. Exactly. So be as kind to yourself as you would be to a friend. Yes. If a friend made a grammar mistake, would you judge them harshly? No, of course not. So why do it to yourself? That's a good point. We hold ourselves to standards we'd never apply to others.
26:50 We do. And that's worth examining. Why am I so harsh with myself? Yeah, where did I learn that this was necessary? And is it helping me? Because usually it's not. Usually it's just making things harder. It is. So maybe the work isn't learning more English. Maybe the work is learning to be gentler with yourself. That might actually be the key to fluency. I think it might be. Because when you're gentle with yourself, you're free to speak. You're not held back by fear of judgment. No, you can just express yourself and trust that it's enough. You know, I think we should talk about something else that comes up a lot. The comparison trap. Oh, yes. This is huge. What do you mean specifically? I mean the way people compare themselves to others. Like they see someone who's been learning English for two years and sounds amazing,
27:37 and they think, I've been learning for five years and I still don't sound like that. Right. And then they feel like they're failing somehow. Exactly. But what they don't realize is that everyone's journey is different. It really is. Some people have more opportunities to practice. Some people live in English-speaking countries. Some people have more time to study. Right. And some people are just naturally more confident speakers even in their own language. That's true. Like, I know people who are quiet and reserved in their native language, so of course they're going to be that way in English, too. Exactly. It's not about the language, it's about personality. But people see someone who's extroverted and talkative in English and think, that's what I should be like. When really, you should just be yourself. your natural self translated into English. Right. If you're thoughtful and quiet, you can
28:26 be fluent and thoughtful and quiet in English. You don't have to become a different person. No. And I think that's important to say, because some people feel like they need to put on this performance, this persona, when they speak English. Like they need to be more outgoing or more confident than they naturally are. Yeah. And that's exhausting. And it's not authentic. It's not. So what would you say to someone who feels like they need to change their personality to be good at English? I'd say you don't. Your personality is fine. You just need to find your voice in English, which means being yourself in a different language. And that takes time, doesn't it? It does, because you're learning not just the words, but how to express your actual thoughts and feelings. How to be yourself across languages. Exactly. And that's a deeper process than
29:15 just memorizing vocabulary. It is. Now let's talk about something practical. What about people who say, I understand English perfectly when I read or listen, but I can't speak? Oh, that's so common. I hear that all the time. Why does that happen? I think it's because understanding and producing are different skills. When you're listening or reading, you have time. You can process at your own pace. Right, but when you're speaking, you have to think and produce at the same time. Exactly. And you can't go back and edit. It's happening in real time. So there's more pressure. There is. And I think for a lot of people, that pressure creates a block. Like their brain knows the words, but they can't access them in the moment. Right. It's like the
30:00 words are there, but there's this wall of anxiety between you and them. So what can someone do about that? Well, I think you need to practice speaking in low-pressure situations first, not jumping straight into high-stakes conversations. Like what kind of situations? Like talking to yourself, describing your day out loud in English when you're alone. Oh, that's interesting. So you're practicing the act of producing language without any social pressure. Exactly. You're training your brain to access words in real time, but without anyone listening. And then gradually you can add more pressure, maybe recording yourself or talking to a friend. Right. Building up your tolerance for the discomfort of speaking. Because I think that's what it is, really. It's not that you can't speak. It's that speaking feels uncomfortable,
30:50 so you avoid it. Yeah, and the more you avoid it, the more uncomfortable it becomes. It's like a muscle you're not using. It gets weaker. It does. But the good news is you can build it back up. It just takes practice. And patience with yourself. Yes, patience is so important. Because progress isn't always obvious. Sometimes you're getting better without realizing it. How so? Well, maybe you're understanding more complex conversations, or maybe you're thinking in English more naturally. Those are signs of progress, even if your speaking hasn't changed dramatically. Right, so don't only measure progress by how you sound, measure it by how you feel, too. Exactly. Are you less anxious? Can you express more ideas? Do you feel more comfortable? Those are all forms of
31:39 progress. They are, and they matter just as much as technical improvement. Now, let's address something that I think holds a lot of people back. The idea that they're too old to become fluent. Oh, this is a myth we really need to bust. Right. People say, I'm too old now. I should have learned English when I was a child. But that's not true. Adults can absolutely become fluent. They can. It might take longer or require more conscious effort, but it's completely possible. It is. And actually, adults have some advantages that children don't have. Like what? Like, adults understand grammar concepts better. They can analyze language in a way that helps them learn faster. Right. Children just absorb it unconsciously. But adults can be strategic.
32:25 Exactly. And adults have more life experience, so they can connect new language to things they already know. That's true. So while children might have an easier time with pronunciation, adults have other strengths. They do. And plenty of people become fluent as adults. It happens all the time. So age is not a barrier, it's just a factor like any other. Right. The real barrier is usually belief. If you believe you can't do it because you're too old, you probably won't. But if you believe it's possible, even if it takes time, you'll keep going. Exactly. Mindset matters more than age. It really does. Now, what about people who say they don't have time to practice English? The time issue. This is real for a lot of people. It is. People are busy.
33:11 They have jobs, families, responsibilities. Right. So how do you practice English when you barely have time to breathe? I think you have to integrate it into your life instead of adding it as a separate task. What do you mean? Like, instead of saying, I need to study English for an hour today, you just use English throughout your day. Oh, like changing your phone to English or listening to English podcasts while you commute. Exactly. Exactly. Or thinking in English when you're doing routine tasks. Cooking dinner. Think about what you're doing in English. Right. I'm chopping onions. Now I'm heating the pan. Yeah, it sounds silly, but it's actually really effective. You're practicing without taking extra time. And it makes English feel more natural, more integrated into your life. Exactly. It's not
33:57 this separate thing you have to do. It's just part of your day. I love that approach because I think people often make English learning feel like this heavy obligation. They do. And then they feel guilty when they don't have time for it. Right. But if you can just weave it into your existing life, there's no guilt. It's just there. And little moments add up. Five minutes here, 10 minutes there. Over months and years, that's a lot of practice. Absolutely. It's better to do a little bit every day than to study intensely once a week. Because your brain needs regular exposure to form lasting connections. Right! Language learning is about repetition over time, not cramming. Exactly. So, for anyone listening who feels like they don't have time, you probably have more time than you think. You just need to use it differently. Yeah! And remember,
34:47 listening counts as practice. Thinking in English counts. Even passive exposure counts. It does. You don't always have to be actively studying. Your brain is learning even when you're just immersed in the language. Now, let's talk about something else. The role of enjoyment in learning. Oh, this is important. Because I think people forget that learning can be fun. They do. They approach it like a chore, like something they have to do. Right. But if you're not enjoying it, you're not going to stick with it. No, you're not. So how do you make English enjoyable? Well, I think you need to find content that you actually care about. Not just textbooks or learning materials, but things that interest you. Like what? Like if you love cooking, watch cooking shows in English. If you love sports, follow sports news in English. Oh, so you're learning English
35:37 through things you'd enjoy anyway. Exactly. The English becomes secondary. You're not studying the language. You're just enjoying content that happens to be in English. And your brain is learning without feeling like it's work. Right. It's effortless learning because you're motivated by interest, not obligation. That's brilliant. So find what you love and do it in English. Yes. And this works for all levels. Even beginners can find content that's interesting and accessible. Like simple news articles or YouTube videos with subtitles. Exactly. Or podcasts like this one where the language is clear and conversational. Right. So to everyone listening, ask yourself, what do I enjoy? and then find a way to experience that in English. And if you're enjoying yourself, you'll naturally want to spend more time with the
36:27 language. You will. It stops being something you force yourself to do and becomes something you want to do. And that's when real progress happens, when you're intrinsically motivated. Absolutely. Now, let's address one more thing before we wrap up, the feeling of being stuck. Oh, yes, the plateau, when you feel like you're not improving anymore. Right. You've been learning for a while, and suddenly it feels like you've stopped making progress. This happens to everyone at some point. It does. So what's going on when that happens? Well, I think sometimes you're still improving, but in ways that aren't obvious to you. Like what? Like maybe you're understanding more nuanced meanings, or you're using language more naturally, even if you're not learning lots of new words. So
37:16 the improvement is more subtle. It is. And it's harder to measure. When you're a beginner, progress is obvious. You go from knowing nothing to knowing something. But at intermediate or advanced levels, progress is more about refinement. Exactly. You're polishing your skills, not building them from scratch. So it feels slower. It does. But it's still happening. You just have to trust the process. And sometimes you need to shake things up a bit. Try something new. Like what? Like if you've been doing the same kind of practice for moms, try something different. Join a conversation group or read a challenging book or watch a different type of content. Right. Give your brain a new challenge. Exactly. Because sometimes we plateau because we're too comfortable. We're
38:05 not pushing ourselves anymore. That's true. Growth happens at the edge of your comfort zone. It does. So if you're feeling stuck, that might be a sign to try something a bit harder. or something completely different. Sometimes a new approach can reignite your progress. It can. And remember, plateaus are temporary. Everyone breaks through eventually. They do. You just have to keep going, keep practicing, keep exposing yourself to the language. And be patient with yourself during those times when progress isn't obvious. Yes. Trust that your brain is still working, still learning, even when you can't see it yet. Now let's give our listeners some final thoughts, some things to remember when they're feeling discouraged about their English. Good idea! Okay, first reminder, you don't need to
38:53 sound native to be fluent. Fluency is about communication, not imitation. Right. Second reminder, mistakes are normal and expected. Even native speakers make them constantly. Third reminder, your accent is part of who you are. It's not something to fix, it's something to own. Fourth reminder, most people want to understand you. They're generous listeners. They're not looking for your mistakes. Fifth reminder, you're probably better than you think you are. Your brain focuses on errors, but you're communicating successfully all the time. Sixth reminder, confidence comes from practice, not perfection. The more you speak, the easier it gets, even with mistakes. Seventh reminder, English belongs to everyone who uses it.
39:40 It's not owned by native speakers. It's a global language now. And final reminder, the goal is connection, not perfection. If people understand you and you can express yourself, you're already fluent. You are. And I hope that hearing that today gives you permission to just speak. To stop waiting, to stop judging yourself so harshly. To trust your voice as it is. Because your voice matters, your thoughts matter, your perspective matters. And the world needs to hear from you, even if your English isn't perfect. Especially if your English isn't perfect, because that means you've crossed languages to be here. You've done the hard work of learning, and that's something to be proud of.
40:25 It really is. So our challenge for you today is simple. What's that? Have one conversation in English this week where you focus only on what you're saying. not on how you're saying it. I love that. Just focus on meaning, on connection, on being present. And notice how it feels. Notice if it's different when you're not monitoring yourself. And then come back and tell us in the comments, how did it feel to let go of perfectionism even just for one conversation? We really want to hear from you. We do, because we're all learning together. All of us are on this journey of using language to connect. And none of us are perfect at it. We're all just doing our best. That's all any of us can do. Our best. And
41:11 your best is already enough. It is. So please hit the like button if this episode resonated with you. And subscribe so you don't miss our next conversation. We put out new episodes every week, all designed to help you feel more confident and natural in English. And leave us a comment. Tell us how you feel about your English. What worries you? What have you learned? Even one sentence is perfect. We read every comment. We do, and we love hearing from you. You're not alone in this. You're not. There are millions of people learning English, all feeling the same things you're feeling. Though let's support each other. Let's remind each other that we don't need to be perfect. We just need to be ourselves. Brave enough to speak. Brave enough to
41:57 connect. Even when it's scary. Even when we're not sure we're doing it right. Because there is no one right way. There's just your way. And your way is valid. It is. So thank you for being here with us today. Thank you for listening. Thank you for learning. Thank you for being part of this community. Keep speaking. Keep trying. Keep believing in yourself. Because your English is already better than you think. It is. And it's only going to get better. Not because you'll become perfect, but because you'll become more free. Free to express yourself. Free to connect. Free to just be. And that's what fluency really is. Not perfection, just freedom. This has
42:42 been English Conversation Podcast. I'm Sarah. And I'm Mike. Keep practicing, keep speaking, and most importantly, keep being kind to yourself. Your English journey is uniquely yours. Honor it. We'll see you in the next episode. Until then, take care and keep learning. Goodbye, everyone. Bye-bye.
