0:00 foreign I am delighted to be back in conversation again with my friend and colleague Melanie Reinhardt and we're going to be talking today about cheraclo but before we get into that let me just give a little bit of background about Melanie and first I just want to say thank you for being here Melanie well thank you heather I always love speaking with you it's just such a pleasure and I just I love being in this conversations I have such deep respect for you and for your wisdom and depth
0:46 and sensitivity and deep commitment to being on your own healing and spiritual journey and we're going to be talking today about cheraclo and you've given voice to Chiron to the centaurs and in so many ways you embody their healing energy and compassion so it'll be great to be in conversation about them today and especially Jericho but just to give a little bit of bio Melanie is a patron of the faculty of astrological studies and a prize-winning holder of their diploma she's written a number of books including Chiron and the healing Journey
1:32 Saturn Chiron and the centaurs and incarnation and she's interested in contemplative experience both as a healing process and as a learning modality so I'm delighted to be in this conversation with you today and to talk about the centaurs and cheraclo in particular well it's also a delight for me because there's still not that many people who even use the centaurs and so the little plan of astrologers who do use them it's not that big but it's always a delight to dip in there so maybe you could start by just giving
2:17 a context for the centaurs where they are and why they are so distinct and then we can get into cherokelo and her mythology and her energy right so the centaurs are a subgroup of minor planets um the subgroup being named centaurs and their names are drawn from various Center characters in Greek mythology that being so because um Chiron who was discovered in 1977 has some peculiarities about its orbit
3:04 which are mostly mirrored by the characteristics of the orbits of the other centaurs of which there are currently about 20 who are named and over 500 with numbers that have been discovered since Chiron was discovered so they might well run out of Centaur names and also that they might not be interested in bothering to study and name them we don't know but even 20 is more than enough to really have them flag up some interesting things um that show up in the horoscope so the the features of their orbit
3:53 are that um so all the centaurs apart from Sherry clothes is an interesting little detail they cross over the orbital pathway of at least one other planet and or another centaur and their their angle of declination to the ecliptic is very steep so in the main the ecliptic is the the plane in space where all the planets orbit and I love to think of this kind of banal sorry but I think of it like a fried egg so the Yoke of the egg is obviously the
4:40 Sun and then the white is the plane around that along which all the planets Journey around the Sun actually they're all you know slightly above slightly below it's not like a fixed thing but for me a Friday will do thank you um and so the orbits of the centaurs are they're not in the fried egg model they go right through the fried egg so it is and they and with this very steep inclination and now before Chiron was discovered there was another planet namely Pluto
5:27 who was at that time the only orbit Crosser of the planets that were currently used and it was Dane Roger the inimitable wonderful magical Dane Roger to my knowledge he was the only one who made a commentary about the meaning of that and he used this very evocative phrase he said that orbit crosses depict a cosmic effect condition in other words to make fertile and he he described that as you know bringing in energy from the deep space the Deep of space into the solar system
6:13 and you know any anyone who's ever had a Pluto Transit I'm sure you will have no trouble stretching your imagination to Encompass that description of Virgil because it really it really is like nothing else uh we all know that in 2006 Pluto was actually demoted uh and its Planet status was taken away um after the discovery of Eris eres Zena who also doesn't follow the path of the ecliptic so I think it's interesting that the centaurs and Iris Xena all step off that conventional path and dare to
6:59 move between the worlds in essence yeah absolutely absolutely so there's a real shamanic quality to the centaurs definitely now the disc the first Chiron was discovered and he was con you know the only one um and they didn't even know what kind of object Chiron really was so at first he was called a planetoid which just means planet-like um and the word actually comes from a Greek word meaning a Wanderer the planets are the ones that wander across the night sky so in that sense Chiron was The Wanderer amongst
7:45 Wanderers or already with that theme of being one separated from mainstream or from society being an outsider an exile and crucially also in service to other people um then in 1992 another huge Discovery was made namely of a great belt of matter surrounding the solar system this is called the copper belts or corporate disc and it was said by I believe it was in the magazine New Scientist where they said that the discovery of the Kuiper belt was that the most major
8:32 revision of the Solar System since the time of Copernicus so already the the astronomers were speaking about this Herald's a new vision of our own solar system and um from the mythology of Chiron and then you know observing it astrologically at work in individuals lives it's very clear how the theme of transition and the process of integrating something entirely new that that's all part of the process um that opens up around Chiron
9:19 and um you see there is also the connection between all the centaurs and the realm of Pluto because Pluto is one of the inhabitants of the quote of this quote about and it's Sid that the centaurs were objects that originated in the corporate belt but they came in from being an outsider let's say came into our solar system the speculation there is that it's via the gravitational pull of Neptune and that's something so symbolically resonant in my mind anyway because a Neptune is a place in the
10:06 chart that at one level flags up our illusions and delusions um where we're trying to kind of see through to the spiritual Dimension but we'll keep projecting it onto the material plane and inevitably huge betrayals and suffering and anguish result from that without fail and so I I'm sure I'm not the only one amongst us who has followed Illusions and delusions and ended up feeling completely crushed by my own delusions so that's one level of Neptune and then
10:52 of course at the more refined level we could liken that Neptune's energy to the bodhisattva figure in in Buddhism so bodhisattva is a being who has evolved sufficiently so that in between lives there is the choice of whether to continue on unembodied or whether to return to the realm of incarnation in order to help other Souls um and so at the highest level this is what Neptune is about recognizing the pain that can sometimes be one's experience
11:38 of living incarnated on the Earthly plane so having no Illusions about that and yet wishing to be engaged and down there as it were in the thick of it in order to bring the light of love and compassion right in there beautiful got anything to add well I was I was just gonna say and don't you think Neptune also is our longing to connect with the energy of source and absolutely Cosmic Consciousness so here as we're in this time of increasing you know we're coming out of the the phase of the Kali Yuga the time of forgetting
12:26 and disconnecting from Source yeah that these centaurs are messengers and Healers guiding us to remember that deeper meaning of Neptune which is our longing for that connection with the Oneness of all that is and supporting us in how to move between the worlds and yeah and find that that integration of the other Realms and being in this realm and it also seems to me it fits with what rude you're talked about in terms of you know the Kuiper belt and discovering these energies further and further out in our solar system that we're also
13:13 being called to become more Galactic citizens again instead of being caught in our own ethnocentric worlds yeah absolutely absolutely and you know right there I think about the fact that shariklow doesn't cross over anybody else's orbits and so in a way she dwells in the in-between World quite comfortably thank you very much it's like she doesn't have to cut through anything on her journey of the great round of her completing her own orbit um and I just find that incredibly poignant
13:59 I understand that she's also orbitally the most stable of all the centaurs interesting and Chiron is has the most unstable orbit and so they they're a perfect pair in a way and in mythology she's the wife of Chiron who's absent trying to support him in his healing Journey is say a little bit about her Discovery because that's extraordinary in her Discovery in 1997 as part of this six-pointed star yes yes so um
14:44 depending on which time zone you use Cherokee was discovered either on Valentine's Day I prefer that myself or the day after the 15th and um that that was a very particular weekend for me in that I was in South Africa um doing some teaching and talks and readings and stuff and that very weekend I was doing the weekend on Chiron and I remembered that when I drew up the horoscope for the weekend which I always do there was this absolutely staggeringly wonderful
15:30 almost complete six-pointed star now six pointed Stars are um a kind of a chain of planets that are connected by sextile aspects to each other and there are two completed trines which match with those six tiles and then obviously there are oppositions to all the signs which pair off so it's not a desperately rare combination but it is very rare to see a chart where the combination of planets is not only more than the
16:15 required for the six points but that the placements are in the very same degrees just extraordinary but I have never I've never seen another chart like that and in fact Wade caves a brilliant wonderful astrologer who some of you might know he actually worked out the mathematical odds for me and because I'm no maths buff I can't remember what the figures are so I can't even tell you but extraordinarily High odds of that actually happening and I remember looking at this chart and thinking wow how wonderful to have that chart for
17:02 this weekend of teaching and then I was aware what it's not actually quite complete right so there was one empty point which according to the very precise placements of everything else in the chart it should have been this I said no there should be something at five plus or Leo to make this complete so lo and behold over that weekend was discovered at not exactly five plus but it was 601 or 605 or something of Leo's a very very close and I also had some very powerful
17:48 experiences during that weekend the kind of experiences that are very hard to put into language but basically just a profound feeling of love and of the it was an experience of like foundational love it wasn't really personal and it also felt like that that kind of love where all is right with everything and everyone even though of course you know that that's so not true on other levels right and I was up for hours that night just bathing in this experience and looking at the sky so
18:34 that was towards the end of my trip out there and I think it was only about a week later that I got back to London and then found out that a new Centaur had been discovered on that very weekend it was just completely amazing how Exquisite I also know from having spoken to others that I wasn't the only one to be having very strong trans personal experiences on that weekend and in fact I'll maybe take the opportunity to just mention um a forthcoming book called Sideways from Saturn and it's going to be published by
19:20 precipe press and it's going to be an anthology of I think it's about 12 astrologers or writing about the centaurs new ideas their experience and so on so really something to look forward to and in my contribution to that book I I actually tell that story about the discovery weekend and so forth um and so that's something for you Centaur fans to to look forward to it's so Exquisite hearing your experience of her Discovery and that
20:06 incredible sacred geometry of really the Star of David and the it is the two trying Grand trines the two triangles really hold that energy of connecting with the Earth and Sky and coming into harmony coming into balance and I love that the Sabian symbol for her at the time of her Discovery is the constellations in the sky remembering our connection with source as we're here on the Earth plane absolutely yes I couldn't believe it when I looked up the Sabian symbol the other thing that's so striking to me about the chart is um
20:53 because so many planets are involved with this six-pointed star including an almost exact conjunction of Jupiter and Uranus so a few hours after the discovery was that conjunction and it's in Aquarius and so what a wonderful signature of something new and expansive and unseen before or you know how they say about Uranus you expect the unexpected and it's often a signal for something really new unthought of Unthinkable Etc and there it was just a few hours after the discovery um but because so many of the planets in
21:39 the whole in the whole map are involved with the six-pointed star that means that there's two planets which which can be called Singletons so Singleton is a word used for factors in the chart that are very much on their own and in this case the Singleton is that there's one planet each in the elements of earth and water so the big Grand Trine is all air and fire yeah yeah now a Singleton in an element in a person's horoscope will mean that a huge emphasis is thrown
22:24 onto that one planet and I tend to think of that as if you can think of the planets as like conduits for the for the end of the elemental energies of the signs of the zodiac and so if a particular element only has one planet for its conduit that has an incredible amount of energy and pressure and emphasis that can be readily seen by what happens in somebody's life you know so contrary to what one might think having a Singleton in an element doesn't
23:10 in any way mean that that element is weak and not really featuring because there's only one you know it actually means wow it's gonna really show in somebody's life and so here the two that are emphasized are earth and water [Music] and so it's Chiron in Scorpio so that's wow interesting The Healing Waters of the depths there's not just any old water this is the depths and then it's Neptune in Capricorn which is like the sacred Earth wow amazing so I then thought
23:55 wow shariklo is bringing us the image of what it is we need to be able to creatively meet the veritable storm of air and Fire that I got that's going on on the planet it was going on back then in 1997 and it's still going on now and that's some of that's been literal you know in the sense of a lot of cyclones and whirlwinds and fires where you know uh and then if we think of the connection with air and everything to do with the Mind from from perception
24:42 observation and the capacity to make connections draw conclusions also language information dialogue dialogue group exchanges Etc this is all engaging the air element anything to do with words and not exclusively words by the way it's communication big time and really we we only have to just briefly remember what a storm has been going on in that realm of communication yeah on our planet at the moment to the point where that you know I sometimes
25:29 my main media is the radio very old-fashioned but if I hear things that get me curious I'll go search things online but I don't have a television but even with just my radio I have to have days when I just don't even switch it on because it you know when I switch it on it's like this window to this absolute Mayhem and chaos and contradiction and misinformation and propaganda and Prejudice in the whole smear you know that's what comes out of the radio and that does affect our mental bodies you know yes yes it does it makes us difficult makes it difficult for us to to reach Clarity yes or to be centered
26:14 things get confused very easily um and then fire eats it all up with emotion of course and then well it's a perfect description of what's been going on and so there the message that as I would understand it is you know it's to the sacred Earth and The Healing Waters that we must go and that's a kind of a refuge also that's what's needed anyway in order to hold the created potential of the six-pointed star in Earth and Fire so that that would be my my take on the on The Singletons that's that's extraordinary Melanie and it you know
27:00 it's like she was coming in with this incredible healing energy because she's so holds that energy of being present with us and for us without words without trying to fix anything it's just that incredible healing compassion and presence and it's like she comes in as we're moving into more and more chaos like you just described and I also love that in that six-pointed star the Moon is opposite Pluto so it's also saying we're moving into a time of transformation that's going to activate intense emotions but here is this healing presence
27:46 here to support us and guide us and hold us and I love I I didn't know that Chiron was in Scorpio in that chart yes really guiding us wonderful diving deep into our own healing Journey depending on this time of transformation absolutely and often to that place where uh it's really difficult to get words down there and sometimes it's not necessary and sometimes it's not even appropriate but the capacity to still bear with hang out with or accompany in a kindly way
28:33 whatever it is that we're experiencing so to me shariklo brings a very powerful container for very strong experience yeah and it's it's from that kind of containment that can be developed a kind of a kind of inner Witness so a part of us which isn't actually in the thick of whatever conflict might be going on in what they or externally but that is there not not in an impersonal detached way but in a way of of heartfulness and a spaciousness you know beautifully sad Melody that's so
29:20 beautifully said you know it's interesting when I was in full-time practice as a clinical psychologist when I was still in California and doing a lot of trauma work with people I found as I gained more experience in my practice I talked less and less and realized so much of what was healing truly healing was the sacred relationship and the container of the process but that also in that context I you know I didn't have the words for it with no understanding share a clue but it was like we were calling in cheracles energy and I
30:06 remember feeling like there's this energy of love and compassion in the room holding both of us me and my client and it was a profound healing energetic and and it was really interesting when I uh ended up uh moving and having to close down my practice as I was telling people that I needed to leave I could feel the the intensity of that healing energy beginning to dissipate and what was really extraordinary is I had a number of plants in my office that I often forgot to water or you know sadly neglected them but they thrived
30:55 and as I was ending my practice and could feel this what I understand now is cheraclo energy beginning to dissipate each one of the plants gradually even though I started watering them faded and died it was like she brings such a profound energy of love and healing that is beyond us but surrounds us yes what comes to mind this moment is the title of a most wonderful book by Stephen Levine um it's been around quite a while so it's it's easy to get hold of but the title is healing into life and
31:42 death so what really features in his work on that theme is his capacity to to really stand in that flow where indeed life and death are part of one Continuum in which we all share all the time kind of whether we're dead or alive dead so-called you know or alive and well she she holds the whole Spectrum exactly exactly and whatever we're experiencing she can be there with us for us yeah and that that is with or without words
32:30 I think you know when I um when it was about 18 months before Cherokee was named after she was discovered so I'd already had this experience on the same weekend and I I didn't have I didn't have at that point I didn't have any context for it so I didn't start intensively researching immediately but when she was named Jericho oh already just the fact she was chiron's wife began to get me flashing you know so I did quite a bit of research I went back in my file of clients you know thousands of
33:18 charts of people whose horoscopes I'd read down the years and by then I I was beginning to get a feeling of yeah this is something about the capacity to hold hold healing space and to Bear witness and to accompany which as Heather has just so so eloquently described how that works in a therapy setting but um I'm very fortunate in that I've read horoscopes for lots of people involved in various different kinds of healing fields in in these so-called alternatives so you know osteopaths particularly of the cranial sacral variety
34:05 oh polarity therapists herbalists homeopaths you know oh and also some doctors believe it or not uh and I every one of them that I checked had a really prominent Jericho interesting wow so in my mind it almost interested like Jericho and Chiron became one and I saw I saw Chiron as in many ways the more active part of the healing process where one engages with techniques be it herbs or homeopathic pills or massage or energy work or
34:50 whatever it is but you do something okay um and uh and then of course Chiron didn't know how to do stuff for himself that would fix the wounded healer yeah that would fix his own wound you see and the story does resolve as probably most of you um watching this will know in that there was a kind of Destiny swap arranged between him and Prometheus and that allowed Chiron to die of his wound which he couldn't do before being a demigod so he was allowed to die and was then immortalized in the constellation of
35:36 Centaurus or some say the constellation of Sagittarius but the Centaur in the sky and so you know inter in terms of look looking at that story symbolically is death of course as a different meaning than a physical death so okay the physical form of the centaur came to an end but he became his Immortal self and that's like an encapsulation of what happens on a spiritual journey to one degree or another you know and we don't have to physically die for that to happen we meet our Immortal self you know at some point
36:25 but I also then wondered I thought to myself well was it that he had to learn perhaps from his wife the quality of being to accompany himself as it were on his own journey and it's like I think it's apollodorus where Chiron was said to have done his vocation being a great healer and mentor and so on for 900 and something years in other words just sort of a whole millennium at the same time as being wounded and in pain because he couldn't heal his own wound
37:11 so that now reminds me of uh experiences of suffering which tend to recur and recur and recur and every time we think I've sorted it now it's all fixed it's all good you know we then get dismayed or disbelieving when it comes back again and I think in terms of the processes of the underworld let's say that occurs when there's still more about that experience that needs to be metabolized that needs our Attention our compassionate attention on it not our
37:57 dismissal or rejection or rationalization it needs our compassionate attention so that it has the space to go through its own healing process in the right time which is the timing of the Soul not to the convenience of our ego you see so I suddenly thought one day oh I wonder if that's what that story of Chiron is also referring to beautiful we're released from our suffering through it and through a process of meeting our Immortal self at the right time and in the right way so to speak so there's there's no one side no
38:43 one-size-fits all with that and yet it's very reassuring story but I thought well I wonder whether part of the timing of chiron's story is that there needed to be enough time for him to really imbibe this whole other aspect to the healing process which is mostly silent invisible and it's there with words or without words and often it's that which enables the shift of Dimension which brings the healing you know wow that's extraordinary Melanie so the cheraclo is holding that space until
39:30 Chiron comes to that sense of wholeness and integration at that level and it's interesting that she I mean she is at some deep level understanding that wisdom of the spiritual initiation of that whole journey so she's not trying to pull him out of it and he's trying to hold presence for it and allow it to unfold yeah and you know that on on on the chart of the discovery um I hope I'll get this right I might just check my astrology here to see but
40:17 um oh yes so Mars and Venus which we could telegrammatically call masculine and feminine they're both in signs in which they are so-called indeterment meaning that they're located in signs so it's Mars in Libra and Venus in Aries hmm and so they're both in signs which are opposite the ones that they're said to rule okay that are related to the other exactly exactly and inner planets in detriment uh it traditionally
41:02 they're mostly considered to be weak or not fortunate or things like that but if you look at them psychologically whole other picture comes out while it may be true that at one level things are difficult or they don't work so well it's almost like they require a journey that encompasses the Opposites because they're in the opposite sign to what they rule so some kind of Journey of understanding and deeper Insight is required in order to bring forth the potential of that placement and um to me that's a very interesting way to look at detriment and even for
41:48 in the traditional terminology if you put that on a psychological level a whole fascinating realm of possibilities opens up immediately and I promise and from a spiritual perspective too it's that Harmony of the polarities and coming to Center coming to wholeness which again Jericho seems to hold is how do you really ultimately come into that Inner Harmony that is allowing you to be in that connection with the Earth and Sky and spirit coming into wholeness yes exactly and it's very precise on the Discovery chart because if you would switch the planets around
42:36 in other words if they would take each other's places just like Chiron did with Prometheus they would both be in dignity I was so thrilled when I saw that I thought wow this discovery chart as do many Discovery charts for planets and other things it really really speaks to the meaning and so you know having looked at so many chart examples of past people people passed from from um whose horoscope I'd read I then became began just routinely putting Turkey in to current charts that I was reading
43:23 and water quickly became aware of was that um well by by about 2017 when I had a very particular experience in a session which I'll described briefly in a moment but by then Jericho was rapidly coming up to make the first one of three conjunctions with Pluto that was one of the dominant aspects of 2019 and then there was also aspects that she made with Saturn and Jupiter when the whole gang of them were all in Capricorn
44:09 when we were all going into chaos and crisis on planet Earth we were all kind of trapped in this Cave of density working these very capricornian themes in so many ways you know and there she was wow open space holding space exactly and I know for myself I found that incredibly useful just as a as a reminder of you know where one can go internally where it's a very helpful place to be as distinct from getting really angry and impatient and reactive or frightened
44:56 after death you know um but to be able to bear with and abide with and accompany and be there be there for each other and so forth and that was in Capricorn and that theme of being there for each other to me seems to be coming more and more into sharp definition since uh since chericho went into Aquarius which was so she did but she's at 12 Aquarius now yeah so it was on the 27th of January 2021
45:43 did she moved into Aquarius just moved into Aquarius and I'm just looking on my list here so there's a second Ingress which was the 9th of November 2021. and as they're only two um she did go back into Capricorn in 2021 uh and so came for a second Ingress on that 9th of November date so I can't help imagining that as her preparing the way for Pluto because he started out in this whole
46:30 great stellium of Capricorn she started out kind of um earlier than the other planets because she moves more quickly and then gradually caught up with each one of them making a junction it's like a relay race making a conjunction and then moving on to the next one and making a conjunction and moving on to the next one and on to the next one and she you know preparing the way for Pluto to go into Aquarius exactly now and I do have I do have a little story as to what that reminded me of
47:17 um in 1970 three yeah 1973 I was in India for a few months and amongst other things um I attended a darshan that's like a attending and an event where a guru is present and blesses the people there with his or her presence and this was a very famous Guru and it was back in the days kind of before there were so many gurus from the East who came to the West this was still in a very Indian
48:04 traditional setting there was if there were a few westerners there but not very many the whole thing was done in a traditional way so in the center of this compound there was like a throne which had a canopy over it with ribbons and flowers and all of that and then there was a walkway from the road to the seat the throne in the middle of this whole compound and for hours before the guru arrived the devotees were sitting cross-legged on the floor chanting beautiful beautiful bhajans that's a sacred song A devotional song raising an enormous amount of energy
48:50 and there were also a special team of people whose job it was to make like mandalas of flower petals colored flower petals all the way along this walkway and so as the time grew near and the drums began to be played and with rhythm added to all these bhajans and the energy was going up and up and up and the guru arrives and sweeps down this Pathway to the throne in his robes scattering all these flower petals everywhere they're scattering all the devotees
49:36 with all these flowers that were blessed okay well you can imagine the energy after that but that's what reminded me I thought oh well it's like Jericho has been laying the mandalas of the flowers and Along Comes Pluto and those flower patterns are dispersed over us all as he comes so the theme of being there for each other comes to mind with that you know wow that's extraordinary it reminds me of roomy's line where the wound is the light comes in it's like yes she's holding us in our working our
50:25 individual wounds our Collective wounds and helping us in that healing process and helping us be there for and with each other and then Pluto comes in taking us through that deeper transformational process that alchemical process of death rebirth yeah absolutely and I I I believe I mentioned this in a recent newsletter where I woke up on the morning where I was going to write the newsletter um with with that song I'll get by with a Little Help from My Friends and of course praise be to YouTube
51:10 went right there and I found not only a clip of the Woodstock festival from 1969 where that song was immortalized by Joe Cocker but I found a recording of him singing the very same song just a few months before he died uh and so almost his whole life was underpinned by this song You Know and it just really really touched me I wasn't personally at the Woodstock festival but I did see the movie I don't know how many times I lost count and you know there it was as if the feeling was very much of being amongst one's friends you know and well
51:56 I was going to say as we all know that is a very Aquarian theme I was just gonna say so do you see her being now in Aquarius is also helping us be in healing Community absolutely and you know what I've noticed is that that doesn't have to be are formally arranged healing community it can be that's great but just the the level of Exchange that's possible between friends or even between people that you don't really know very well something seems to have opened there because I'm finding
52:41 having incredible conversations with people where I might not have expected that or where I feel really surprised so people revealing their own depths not necessarily as a plea for support but just because that's what's true that's what's arising you know and being able to hear that and bring the the the respect that that kind of process deserves so being a listening ear
53:27 you know being the empathic other exactly exactly and so now I'm just looking when is the next oh yeah so the next station of shariqlo is on the 17th of May coming right up and it's around that date I think it's the 15th not sure but anyway round then is when Jupiter will also change signs where will she be in Aquarius when that happens do you know will she still be a Twist she still she will still being Aquarius at 12 degrees or will she be further in
54:15 1324 okay because it's so interesting with where she is now at 12 degrees of Aquarius I looked up the Sapient symbol for that and it's it's about preparing and planning for an unknown future oh through following our inner guidance and being on a path of self-development and healing whoa so it fits with what you and I were talking about before we got on for this conversation that this is such an accelerated time of healing on the planet right now yeah yeah but if we open to her presence and how she's bringing her energy through
55:01 us to be there for and with each other there is such an opportunity now to be diving into what's in the shadows and bringing it into awareness and being on an accelerated path of healing yeah I absolutely agree with that and also it occurs to me that um the qualities and her particular quality of presence as I was saying like abiding with bearing with bearing Witness there's also a kind of a silence there and that doesn't mean that you can't talk or speak or whatever it is just a
55:47 silence these are qualities let's face it which we are not encouraged to develop in contemporary world let's face it in fact we could say maybe exaggerating but the whole contemporary world is almost like designed in quotes to distract us from exactly that we certainly aren't taught that in schools um this may be changing in some areas but really it's absolutely revolutionary without doing anything because it's about a state of consciousness really without which nothing else can really grow or flower you know
56:34 um and also that each one of us contains um Reservoir I think that's the word I want a reservoir of this kind of energy this kind of Consciousness within ourselves and so one way of thinking about Jericho is that she's come as it were to awaken that within our nose mmm beautiful that we we can we can hold space for ourselves as well as others
57:20 and that we could say that's that's like the the inner charity Club so to speak you think Melanie that also I mean she was a water nymph and then morphed into a centaur to be with Chiron so do you think she's also representing that you know energy of Nature and well she's both a shape-shifter so again she carries that shamanic energy but do you think she's also like this nature being who's also guiding us to remember the healing energies of nature that the energies of nature I think are the plants the animals are really trying to
58:05 support us in a healing way as we're in this accelerated time of transformation and that she's also representing that well just um hearing you musing about that makes me think oh well astrologically it's almost like there's your two Singletons in earth and water ah because the nymphs are are Earthly creatures Elemental creatures and she was a Wilderness which of course belongs to the realm of nature I.E the Earth but what's also interesting you know to my knowledge well I haven't found any any of the
58:53 classic sources which describe how she shape-shifted from being a nymph to being a centaur and you know if anyone out there has the the chapter and verse on that please let me know because I'm really curious but I haven't found it likewise I haven't found any written story about well what happened after Chiron died I was just gonna say that yes she just there's no more comment about Jericho who's yeah which again you know and because there are two Centaur constellations in the sky Centaurus and
59:39 Sagittarius and it does the the versions of chiron's ending vary according to you know which one is his immortalized self and I thought well of course there have to be two centaurs because maybe it's Chiron and chericho or I even thought well maybe she was already there waiting for him it's like oh what kept you you know I don't know but what I what I do know is that for me those missing chunks of information just serve to to remind us of the great Mysteries like we don't know how come that happened or what the official line was the story
1:00:25 in the mythology and I'm personally fine with that because it leaves me room to imagine all kinds of things you know so what's your ideas well well two two things one is it it also feels to me like it's such a s it's so symbolic of how she wasn't operating out of ego I mean that she comes in to this realm and is such a healing presence for Chiron and and I think it's also important to remind us sometimes when we get caught in a dynamic with someone who's in pain we need to be The Rescuer who we want to be the healer we want to feel like we
1:01:11 make a difference yeah and there's something profound about Cherokee who just holds the space for the healing Journey yeah without any investment in the outcome and without any sense of coming from ego such that then when he finally transitions she just can step away yeah she can kind of vanish without Trace yes but she also I hadn't thought of this before but I'd love your thoughts about this as we're talking about her she reminds me of in the myth of an honor when Anonymous is in the Underworld and she's been killed by her dark sister areshkagal
1:01:57 Anki the god of wisdom Saturn interestingly sends the Earth creatures to revive Anana to rescue her but before they can rescue her they come in and hold this healing presence for a Russian girl who's now in the throes of birth labor yes and they just empathically mirror back her pain and hold her in that sacred compassionate healing space yeah and then she's so relieved and so grateful she asks what gift they want and they say well we'll just take that corpse over there hanging on the hook
1:02:44 and they take an honor and revive her and then they disappear it reminds me of that cheraclo energy of coming in to be a healing presence yes and then stepping back into the mystery yeah yeah into the men into the mystery from when she came yeah well and as you were describing that sense of being liminal and holding that space between the worlds and reminding us that that we are being held and supported and is Guided by these energies from other Realms we're not alone here so
1:03:30 just thinking of the astronomy so the orbit of Saturn is the the edge of the visible planets and the orbit of Uranus is the edge of the invisible planets meaning in invisible to the naked eye and Uranus was also the first planet discovered with the aid of technology in maths and all the rest of it so they really do represent two different worlds and so she nestled her orbit Nestles happily between those so she doesn't have to cut through anybody else's orbits to like make a point or get the ball rolling or anything like that she's just in there you know in that liminal space yeah in that
1:04:16 luminal space and you see Saturn and Uranus or of course the two planets associated with the rulership of Aquarius so that brings many kind of bells of possibility in my mind um because the whole time the Pluto is in in Aquarius that's until 2044 if you please quite a long time of this theme so the whole time both Saturn and Uranus would be said to disposite or rule Pluto and Aquarius and so given that cherokelo is the one
1:05:02 who connects her journey connects the irreconcilable opposites you know like the um what's it the the Emu the in the immovable object and the what is the other half of that oh the Unstoppable Force the Unstoppable force and the immovable object that's you know Uranus and Saturn but uh cleric Jericho's Journey just goes happily round and round and towards the both the hand and holds both the hands hold the space yeah for both of them with their variations on a theme of conflict and Madness that can happen when their energies Clash you know which
1:05:48 is what we're seeing writ large in the Contemporary world I mean good grief you know so to me it's very comforting to think of her as fitting into the the planetary jigsaw of you know what's going on up up there in the heavens and therefore down here in ourselves as well at the same time hmm ah beautiful well that that's a beautiful note to end on and it I I so appreciate what you're saying in terms of supporting us in knowing that we have this compassion this healing energy this support coming from Jericho coming from
1:06:36 the other realms to support us all in this transition time but that also she can be in us I loved your description of how we can have our own inner chair as well as being that Jericho energy for and with each other and that that can help us hold this time in a healing way and reintegrate the polarities and bring things back to Center bring things back to Harmony and balance yeah and you know from from what I've seen um of my own process and also the the people I speak with about their horoscopes and so forth
1:07:22 what hithers just said you know this is not just an aspiration wouldn't it be nice if this is what's happening um and that too is important vis-a-vis the sign of Aquarius because it can be a very painful thing to be unwittingly trapped in a fixed idea of how things should be could be will be if I just work hard enough or pray hard enough or whatever so I think that Jericho you know her name translated means something like spinning Grace or graceful spinner graceful spinner and
1:08:07 I've had some experiences with her where I've suddenly thought oh my God and the correlate of that is that her energy can support us in allowing the untangling of the webs we've already spun ourselves into in our lives wow so she can unspin what has already been spun around us like the Cocoon which now traps us or the beliefs which seem to make sense at the time but they're really like debris which needs to go now you know and so she can be the undoer the one one who spins it off you know wow both the one who untangles us and
1:08:56 helps us spin off what we need to release but also re-weaving that web yes Oneness and as you're saying we're in such a chaotic turbulent transition time she's also supporting us and honoring being in this liminal time yes if she knows the liminal Realms and is supporting us in being in this time of not knowing yes letting go of the familiar to transition into an unknown future yes so so almost having enough faith and trust to be able to allow
1:09:42 the discomfort of feeling disoriented confused Etc without feeling that we also have to like take responsibility and jump on the nearest thing that promises us some solidity and Clarity and all the rest of it that we can hang in that liminal space we can safely hang in that liminal space and we we will get the right kind of support hmm and it is a transition into a new form a new way of being and she is holding the safe container for that yes absolutely uh thank you Melanie and I also want to share a clue thank you thank you
1:10:28 thank you all for being present in and listening in this time and may we all hold that energy of Jericho with and for each other in these intense times all right and uh thank you to everybody because it's your it's your presence is also that make it possible for us to get together and of our conversations so thank you
