0:03 10:26:03 Well, hello, everybody! it's Louise Edington the Cosmic Owl of Cosmic Owl Astrology and I am thrilled today to have with me for my tea with Louise series. 10:26:16 I've got my drink, but my one of my favorite astrologers, Melanie Reinhardt who I think of as kind of the centaur Queen. 10:26:29 Now Melanie Reinhardt was was born in Zimbabwe, and the same year as me. But i'm not gonna tell you when she has been a professional astrologer since 1975 So she 10:26:43 came out as an astrologer long before I did this because I didn't actually start till 2012 professionally, though i'd had it
0:52 as a hobby for 25 years before that. Melanie 10:26:58 is a prize Winning diploma holder of the Faculty of astrological studies. 10:27:06 For whom she's also a Patron and She was awarded the prestigious Charles Harvey award given by the Astrological Association of Great Britain in recognition of exceptional service to 10:27:21 astrology. Melanie has written several books i'm not gonna go through them on Chiron or Chiron. 10:27:30 As we were discussing it, might actually we might be pronouncing it wrong. 10:27:35 And the healing journey is probably the best known one. I think. 10:27:39 But there's a couple of a few others
1:41 and some of them, I think, are written transcripts of talks that you've given. 10:27:48 Yeah, Yeah. So anyway, so check her out on Amazon. Check out the books going by them. 10:27:54 But Melanie is also a contributor to a new book that's being released sometime. 10:28:03 I think that's estimated to be in the fall or the autumn by Praesepe press, which i'll put the link below where several astrologers and other writers are 10:28:17 contributing about these wonderful creatures the centaurs. So today, as I meet Melanie formerly for the first time, Mercury
2:29 is actually at almost 6. 10:28:33 Leo, and it's opposing Chariklo who we are going to talk about today. 10:28:41 So Mercury is the messenger. So Mercury is beaming us from London to Salt Lake City, where I am, and having us talk about Chicago. 10:28:49 So welcome, Melanie and i'd love to hear your story about how Chariklo came to you. and then i'm gonna tell you about where I was that day. Look forward to hearing that just one thing that mercury position of 10:29:05 course, that is the discovery degree of Yes, cause She's having her opposition. 10:29:11 I meant to mention Okay, yeah. So so where was I?
3:19 10:29:20 Well, in February of 1997. 10:29:28 On the fifteenth, to be exact, I was actually in Cape Town, South Africa, and that's where I went to university. 10:29:40 But I was visiting there again, visiting friends and having a break, and also teaching a weekend on Cairo, and it was a lovely weekend. They were. 10:29:57 They were totally lovely people, and everybody was really engaged with the theme, and I remember when I went back to my place where I was staying that evening.
4:10 10:30:10 I felt very peaceful and and kind of happy, and I was also just preparing notes and things for the following day. 10:30:20 And then I was just sitting there on my own and you know the sun began to sit, and it's really hard to put this into words, because this wasn't like over vision or a bunch of thoughts. 10:30:45 It was a felt experience, and so all I can say was. 10:30:51 It was as if this feeling state came over me sort of creeping slowly.
4:59 10:31:00 Not a sudden bang, you know, because it wasn't like that in quality. 10:31:04 It was a soft, slow, gentle opening kind of a feeling where, if I were translated into thoughts, it felt like the entire universe was perfect. 10:31:20 In that moment, Of course, we all know on many levels. Hmm! 10:31:27 That perfection is red and often illusory anyway. But at this level, where this feeling seemed to be coming from, there was this very complete sense of peace, a sense
5:45 of peace and of balance. 10:31:49 And it was a very kind of intimate feeling in the sense that it felt very intimate with myself. 10:31:55 My deeper, deepest self kind of thing. and I just set the for absolutely ages just feeling absent, but not black, transported somewhere else like like swept away. 10:32:16 Know anything. It was like transported into another level, another dimension of the here and now. 10:32:24 So. On one hand, it felt very simple, very kind of obvious. 10:32:32 And broth, taking the precious, and
6:36 I sort of hung out in that state, just doing totally nothing except sitting in the chair. 10:32:43 And it's see that's that seem to go on for hours and hours and hours. 10:32:49 But in in normal clock time it couldn't have been more then an hour, Max, I would say because I did go to bed early to prepare before teaching all day the following day. 10:33:02 But that feeling stayed with me. It totally did, and I just had the feeling. 10:33:11 Something is happening. Okay. I had no idea what exit, what was, what I was experiencing, and the feeling stayed with me. And then I thought that the notion of something is happening
7:28 was just subjective. 10:33:31 And it was just me, you know, having this particular experience. So that was 10:33:35 It was the following week, I believe that I I went back to the Uk. 10:33:41 And lo and behold, I discover that there was a new center discovered on that very evening, and you know, with the zone, differences and all that, it was actually coinciding with the moment. 10:33:56 That sheriff was found. and so that absolutely blew my mind, and I I felt as if I had a very strong felt imprint of what this being was about.
8:13 10:34:14 You know, began researching, and so on, and so forth. But I I, Louise, I wanna hear your story. Yeah. 10:34:24 Well, I heard you tell this story on on some another interview. 10:34:26 I call. I think it was the astrology podcast, Anyway, it doesn't matter really where it . 10:34:33 Yeah, I think it was, and and I I suddenly have this by big, light old moment, because, you know, I had looked at the sherry clo discovery chart and this beautiful pattern. it makes and I I never thought to think where 10:34:50 was I when this this happened? Mine was a lot more dramatic than yours, and then a lot less peaceful. 10:34:58 And I can't say it was exactly on that day but probably probably really only
9:03 the day before or over that period. 10:35:07 My dad was ill, and I went to the hospital with him for the diagnosis and 10:35:16 He was diagnosed with bioblastoma and we were told he wouldn't live the year out. 10:35:23 I went home to my boyfriend, who I owned a house with at that point, and I said, you know my dad's dying obviously very distraught at the time. 10:35:35 1997. Can we get married and Can we, cause the only daughter? 10:35:41 And shall we just come off the pill and and have children like we'd always talked about and within 5 weeks we were married pregnant and
9:55 10:35:58 And then later later that year, my dad died on October the first, and he was a scorpio, and my daughter was born on November. 10:36:05 The second she's a scorpio and i'm when she when when my daughter was born, and she was held up, I I was kind of in a bit of a great cause It was I was like it's my 10:36:18 Dad and and I know, you've talked about charitable being kind of a midwife of both death and life and things. and I was like, Oh, my goodness, everything changed on that moment, and you know it could have been that Friday the 10:36:37 fourteenth I I Don't we weren't at the oncologist on the Saturday, so it wouldn't have been on the fifteenth in Darby, but I
10:43 think we got the diagnosis as she was 10:36:48 being. Oh, that Oh, what an amazing story! And so your daughter must totally have that signature. 10:36:59 Yeah. in your very being her life. yeah. 10:37:03 From her inception, not not from her actual birth date because I got pregnant right away. 10:37:11 I can't you know I was I was like you know you come off the pill you usually have to wait a while before you. 10:37:19 Oh, oh, no, yeah, I know isn't it amazing and my whole life literally kind of
11:30 changed on that dime, if you like. 10:37:35 Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Certainly I was no dad married and a mother Whoa: So . 10:37:48 Many, so many transitions, all wrapped into one. Yeah. 10:37:52 Now I I was approaching my Pluto Square as well, so that had something to do with it. 10:37:59 But as we discussed her discovery degree with 60. 10:38:05 Leo and my pluto is at 6 burgers So there's the 6 there, or and almost everything, and I have so much in my chart at 6 and 7 degrees that are all aspected by her discovery
12:16 as well so 10:38:19 It is well, certainly you know really having so this as i'm. Sure you've already seen this that the the mythology in in terms of the classical Greek sources. mythology around Chicago is 10:38:42 really quite minimal. Oh, yeah, and there's even some contradictory bits and pieces here in there, mind that's common, you know. 10:38:52 There's often more than one version of something excuse me. but the fact that there is so little is almost part part of
13:04 the part of the pictogram, let's say because this seems to me to be this real 10:39:14 emphasis on this vibratory level, this felt sense level. 10:39:22 So at the level of being able to describe her in words or tell her story, that part is really minimal. 10:39:30 But what i've noticed is that when when people get it with with Sheriko they totally get it, because it's a felt experience, and even though one is left kind of babbling like an idiot trying to say something about 10:39:47 it, I felt sense is unmistakable. It is.
13:52 10:39:54 Have you found that, too? Oh, since since her she came into our awareness. 10:39:58 And all this is being coming to me. I feel changed, you know, really she my sherry close at 3 Aquarius. 10:40:07 So almost at the opposite point and so i've had 3 passes of my cherry clay return, and and I did them. and I feel that what's happening to me personally is happening collectively, and then you know to all of 10:40:24 us. I feel I feel she is a real harbinger of change. 10:40:29 You know, Grace Spinner spinning a new story holding space for a new paradigm. 10:40:35 Yes, I do also feel that. and I also am very intrigued by the nature of the particular
14:47 image of the feminine. 10:40:48 The she represents. This really does interest me, because there is a certain invisibility about you there. 10:40:59 We know there is what remains in the literature, the ancient literature about about it. 10:41:08 My, my first, my first thought about her. When I started thinking about anthology, I thought, Well, okay. 10:41:15 So she was the wife of Cairon. We know that, and we also know that iron was wounded accidentally by an arrow from Hercules. 10:41:28 And, according to I think It's Apollo Doris or his Yoda one of the well known classical versions of the story, Cairoon lived for 900
15:39 and something years. 10:41:41 So give or take a millennium in absolutely mortal agony. 10:41:47 Not able to heal his own wound, even though he was a renowned healer and mental and wise man, and so forth. 10:42:00 So thinking about that. what came to mind was this poignant picture, you know, of this this kind of wounded center was in in yeah, in the thigh or in the car, or the ankle depending on which version, you read but it's the 10:42:21 lower half, you know, that we stand on back what we stand on the ground, and that's
16:27 wounded, you know, thinking of this, and and we know that that he lived in in in a cave and oh, when when I went 10:42:38 to Greece, to go to Mount Peleon, which was the mythical home of the centres, went there with Brian Clock and Dmitri George, and we took a bus load of 40 10:42:52 astrologers all over Greece, focusing on the sites which were connected with healing or divination. 10:43:03 So obviously Mount Peon was a huge, huge thing, and 10:43:11 I mentioned it just because in the town you know, every second cafe, or bar or
17:19 restaurant is on. 10:43:20 That was called Cantavros, which is center, and many places were claiming to be the one true real. 10:43:30 A cave of Cairon So there were like. 10:43:33 There were loads of caves and on everywhere, and they were all the real ones sort of thing that just came to mind But anyway, so I thought of this poor wounded wounded animal human creature, living in 10:43:46 his cave, I thought. Well, who who was looking after him. 10:43:51 It has to have been the wife, surely. Yeah. So that And you know, in in the early days when I was actively focusing on Sherika has also happened way way back with Cairo.
18:09 10:44:11 It. It was like, you know, the the the the the vibratory being. 10:44:20 We could say that's represented by the name Cherokee, and the little stories seem to be so present and so waiting to be revealed by anybody who was who would care to listen or here or see you know Yeah, So that I would 10:44:38 then typically see a a whole, the whole string of clients. 10:44:48 Who's stories exactly personified the the very thing I was thinking about.
18:55 10:44:55 I know 1 one could say all kinds of things about what i've just said, but that is actually what happened. 10:45:02 Yeah. And so you know, if we just move that tiny detail, tiny detail from the story into a real life situation, we can see that the world is full of Jerry clothes. 10:45:21 Yes, the women, and it's not always women by the way because no, no, no, sheriff can. 10:45:29 The sheriff of energy can also be portrayed by by a man. 10:45:34 So we're talking more of the kind of cosmic principle of the energy here rather than rather than limiting it to gender. 10:45:42 Okay, but there is this particular
19:47 quality. it seems to be gifted at making a sacred space. 10:45:56 Yeah, this can be through a formal method, like a person who has a feel for ritual, or even just decorating a room to be fit for purpose, like a party. 10:46:09 You know that could be, too. but the person who has a feel for how to hold the space invisibly, and what it could to me. 10:46:25 And I i've said this before in videos. that you know that is an innate gift in some people. 10:46:32 So it's a very simple example that's
20:34 the person the person at a party who's actually holding the space when they leave. 10:46:41 It's not long before everybody else goes because like oh, we say the life and soul of the party. 10:46:47 Okay, Well, life and soul so it's being able to bring the life and so, or invite the life and soul not not necessarily to a party in the in the cliche way that that is meant with the life and soul of a situation is 10:47:08 invisible, and it very often registers registers most strongly and most truly on the level of feeling. 10:47:19 So you can't like analyze it or doesn't even have a shape or a smell, and so it might
21:25 do on an individual experience level. 10:47:28 But it registers primarily at the level of feeling. 10:47:34 Oh, can I tell you how she's kind of come to me as well? 10:47:40 And it it resonates so much with what you're saying, But I I I get very visual kind of images in my head of of all these. 10:47:50 Oh, let them Sheriff Cheryl, you know I Yes, her name literally means spinning grace. 10:47:56 But at Cairo was a mental to the gods right wasn't he and and I I and she was supposedly companion to Palace Ofina. 10:48:09 There's a couple of references to Palestine and a couple of others.
22:13 10:48:14 But anyway, I see her as holding the space as well by just being a storyteller, and and always like a bar as well like this very much. 10:48:25 The leo energy to my mind as kind of people just kind of drawn to her, and she's kind of weaving the new stories by telling the stories and gathering everybody Else's stories as well, that's 10:48:39 yeah, kind of very a bit unformed, but I can see it in my head. 10:48:44 You know she has just like palace of either, and all these the the architect of the storyteller and the bard
23:00 very specifically with folus. 10:49:04 Oh, because Folis was the son of Silenas. Hmm! 10:49:09 Who was the storyteller of the gods, 10:49:14 And in Apollo doors is a delightful description of that which also includes a kind of very delicate ring to this fact that he was not above telling stories in the sense of lying. 10:49:27 Yeah, yeah, embroidering the truth for the sake of a good story. 10:49:32 And It was in the year of the first recent of the recent squares of Cairo and Folas 10:49:40 That the phrase fake news became word of the in the Collins. 10:49:44 Dick. Oh, my God, you know and of course now it's everywhere, everybody's embroidering
23:51 the truth. 10:49:54 And -oh and I think probably certainly this is true for myself, and maybe for some some of you dear people watching that it is sometimes difficult to know what is what is true. 10:50:11 Oh, it is! It can be layer on layer, on layer of mystification. 10:50:20 Disinformation. new name perhaps barred. 10:50:25 But perhaps God is not so much the right word for her that i'm, seeing I see her kind of more as weaving different threads of stories together, because you know all these yeah So you know, like 10:50:40 gathering palace ofina's story and
24:43 all these faces of the goddess that are, and kind of weaving them into this. 10:50:51 Yes, yeah. And there was, you know, with that translation of her name that you mentioned the graceful spinner. 10:51:00 I also. so and so we we both have moon in Gemini here. 10:51:11 So i'm gonna do a little moon in gemini and and what when I read that I also read it backwards. 10:51:17 And I thought, Oh, it's she who spins grace so as well as being a spinner spinning grace and that's a very particular quality. 10:51:35 And I think often to be able to do
25:38 that Well, it's it has to be a natural thing. 10:51:43 It can't be you you can't like turn on the capacity for spending grace No, you can't. 10:51:53 It would be completely false, but there's something very true about this capacity to spin grace, and sometimes it's even invisible that you know one just knows in the presence of that person that energy 10:52:07 moves and things change, and things are subtly facilitated, and sometimes without any deliberate intention on the part of the sheriff person. 10:52:19 It just occurs so at that level it's the deepest possible kind of magic. 10:52:24 I haven't know the story for you
26:26 about that Oh, please yes, in in in relation to chicago kind of being this death dollar or spaceholder for somebody that's that's in pain and dying 10:52:38 My neighbor It was about 5 years ago was dying, and 10:52:45 I had done semantic training to kind of do death psychopom work and things. 10:52:50 I've never been used. It you know I do semantic journey work, but i'd never used it something in me instinctive like you say, made me made me just sit with her one day and I was saying I've been 10:53:04 trained to do this work, you know it's not gonna heal you, but it might really help you and and it just might make you feel
27:13 better. 10:53:14 And Would you be willing to try? and she was, and we did journey work together, and I did 10:53:22 The death dollar work of of taking her to the other side, and bringing her back again and preparing for for death, and I've never done it before. 10:53:31 I've never done it since. Yeah, But I just that connection with her. 10:53:40 And I just I have to do it. So the phrase that comes is it. 10:53:42 It was called forth in a a natural way from you. Yeah, it was. 10:53:48 And I it wasn't almost wasn't me it was coming, you know I didn't really plan it. you know, and her mom afterwards was like, would you do the some of this work with me
28:01 and I said it was 10:54:02 just It was just like, you know, and her family were going. 10:54:08 What what did you do you know? she was an atheist and now? she's how to be dying and and her dad's waiting for on the other side, and i'm like I was just following my instincts that's 10:54:23 so good. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I thought about going and doing death to all of work. 10:54:30 But I I it just it'll come if it's yeah yeah, exactly. 10:54:37 Yeah, because you know the those kind of experiences of of accompanying people, either in a birth situation or in the death
28:49 situation. 10:54:51 And not only physical birth and physical death, it can be psychological, spiritual emotion, this, and rebirth. 10:55:02 Yeah. So how? How? those kind of experiences which are also completely normal? 10:55:09 Yeah. and in one way or another, probably every person who lives has a taste of that in their life. 10:55:17 And of course depending on their Horoscope for some people. That's an absolutely major thing. and for some it may it may be just a murmur, but everybody has it for sure. 10:55:32 And so that needs a accompanying Yeah. and it is possible to accompany oneself. 10:55:38 But it does take a bit of practice,
29:40 it does, and a and a bit of awareness. 10:55:43 But being being called in an organic and natural way by line to accompany folks in different kinds of transitions, it's a very particular skill, because I do that through my astrology consultations, as well 10:56:03 so many, many different ways in which this but I I would sort of go back to the vibe survive the felt sense of this particular capacity this quality that in one way or another. 10:56:20 We've all got that it's just that some people, have it really upfront and and
30:27 center stage kind of thing. and for some people it may be more more of a background thing, but of course, which can be called into 10:56:36 prominence by a life situation which will correspond with the transit. 10:56:42 And then there are people who do make a a, or who do have a vocation to specifically be of service in that very specific way. 10:56:55 And so one of the most obvious ones that I thought of, and that sent me scurrying to my client. 10:57:01 Files was people who do people who are cranial. 10:57:05 Osteopen. Oh, Crane is equal therapist, or just oste past any any of the rpertoire of body work, and there may be many others
31:19 but that those I am familiar with but any of anyone of 10:57:22 the repertoire body work with there's a very strong feature of holding. 10:57:30 Yeah, like the very first time I went to a cranial psychology. 10:57:35 Path decades ago. I couldn't believe it you know what is that all she did was like put cup her hands underneath my skull? 10:57:46 I know it's so it's almost like they're not doing anything of course it is possible to educate one sensitivity to absolutely feel what's going on. 10:57:59 But the very first time. Wow! you know, and I just paid how much for this and nothing.
32:05 10:58:06 They didn't do anything. and nothing happened which of course is so far and it's a tremendous the art of getting out of the way. 10:58:17 So then the healing process of the process of transition can go along unimpeded that's part of what sheriff's office. 10:58:30 I think I I agree and I think she's doing it collectively. 10:58:34 Agree with that? totally? No. Now I asked you for the dates where Satin crossed the orbit of sorry wet Cairo cross the old bit of satin to move within to move within Saturday, and that was in
32:50 10:58:50 1992 at 6. leo which was the discovery degree of directly and then he and then he didn't move out again till I can't remember the date. 10:59:02 Now you've got it Safety that was 1999 after she had been discovered. 10:59:08 Yes, and starting, of course, with the limits of our known universe before. 10:59:14 You know, to the visible planets. I I feel like he was bringing his wife in Oh, I love that! 10:59:25 Oh, thank you for the beautiful I think he was saying she She's needed, you know, and and okay, tell you something else
33:37 as well. I've I've done a set presentation on series quite a lot. 10:59:43 Ce. yes, for those listening to the great Mother Goddess, or was an asteroid now a dwarf planet? 10:59:51 And do you know what the date of her discovery? Richard Thomas spoke at the Cycles and Symbols Conference in San Francisco, and said, Patriarchy is best understood as the 5,000 year birth canal of the great 11:00:04 mother goddess. Oh! and he said that quote on her discovery date, Wow! 11:00:15 After after Cairo and bought her into our no kind of universe to told us to heal. 11:00:25 Yeah, yeah, no. I also found myself
34:28 wondering at a certain point with the Karen's long life of suffering which he was not able to heal by himself, which then, of course, transcended into a whole other level, when he 11:00:46 became immortalized in the constellation of centuries. 11:00:54 One day I found myself wondering whether that all took so long, because, even though, of course, at one level pair on lives in a timeless realm, anyway, the realm of the archetypes where where time isn't like it is you 11:01:11 know on our wristwatch kind of thing,
35:14 but nevertheless it was specified in that. 11:01:16 Think Apollo doors 970 years he lived. so I thought, Wow! 11:01:22 That's a really long time to be unable to live properly, and that, unable to die properly in between you know, he's the God of the in between many gods have the the notion of ruling over the 11:01:38 thresholds is not the only one, but it is very specific with Cairo, because it is about our wounds. 11:01:45 Yeah, and our healing. And I found myself wondering because that wow, I wonder if it took him that long, because all the time, all the time that was going on he was absorbing the wisdom of his wife Yeah, burning
36:03 from her to 11:02:04 complete his own connection with his own soul. And then you must free to go. 11:02:11 Yeah. So to me, that kind of resonates a bit with your information about the orbits, you know. 11:02:20 And she was kind of the death daughter for him. 11:02:23 She was helping him to. Is that point exactly exactly. well from all of this? 11:02:33 Yeah, me, too, done like Goosebumps and you know when Pluto went into Sagittarius, so I forget the precise details on this. 11:02:44 But it's something like the center called nessus it was within a couple of days. 11:02:51 If that but almost on the same date
36:56 missus entered Sagittarius, so he was sometimes known as the Black Center. 11:03:04 So when I stumbled across this, when I was looking for you know stuff about, I sort of just thought to myself, Wow, what a pick! 11:03:15 What a picture came to my mind so there's Pluto lord of it underworld, who also was said to where a helmet of invisibility. 11:03:27 In other words, he would, when he came above the ground. he wore this helmet, which rendered him invisible, so that you know politically, that can be said to represent the invisibility of the fact of and the realm,
37:45 of and 11:03:47 the experience of death, which totally 100% a Company's life. 11:03:54 Yeah. So we live on a planet that spins around, and we have day and night, that alternate quite quickly. 11:04:01 You know. So the dark and the light are always there's a dance and interplay. 11:04:08 And so, when when the lord of the underworld exited from the from the underworld scope here, and went into Sagittarius, he was accompanied by this is the black center, and I just send this eagle 11:04:26 image. You know this is magnificent black center, with maybe the lord of the underworld actually riding on his back, or something.
38:36 Oh, and of course, 0 0 0 Sagittarius is the degree where Tyrone, went back out of 11:04:42 the orbit of Yes, exactly it's like it's like poetry in the sky. 11:04:54 This stuff, you know Well, I always think it is It's all it's all it's all not only the centers, obviously yeah, working together, but you know I think they've come in for a very specific. 11:05:07 Reason to bring us into this new paradigm, and you know absolutely. now. 11:05:15 Most annoyingly. I lost the source on this but I promise you I didn't make this up one of the famous astronomers who's been
39:24 quite involved with the centers. 11:05:26 May be discovering or writing about them. So I, he said that the discovery of the corporate built in in which they were said to have originated, and so our kind of X occupants or exiles from corporate Bill, so this is 11:05:45 drummer, astronomer, fellow, said: This is the most important frontier of discovery. 11:05:52 Since the time of Copernicus. So you probably recall that Copernicus was the fellow who discovered that it was us and the planets that went around the sun. 11:06:07 Yeah, rather than the Earth being
40:10 the center of the known universe. 11:06:13 And that was considered seriously and dangerously heretical at the time. 11:06:19 Imagine that. And so he was, in a way quite smart. He just basically sat on all of his discoveries, but did teach people about it. 11:06:31 So it was Actually, the Copernican revolution was really set rolling by. 11:06:37 Galileo. we went on to house the rest for so doing. 11:06:42 Huge court case to do with heresy and huge things. 11:06:49 And it's you know that that is it's such a poignant image. All that that story, because in a way it we could say it was ever
41:00 thus so today, as we speak there are really important new discoveries of various 11:07:07 kinds in various disciplines. Oh, there are people are being vilified and not understood, and not believed, and in some cases comes to them because of that it's. 11:07:23 True, but but even as astrologist you know astrologers like us, who are fascinated by all these new, this discoveries. 11:07:32 They were always there. Of course I i've been for a long time, I and you know I've been 11:07:39 I've been not attacked but i've been you know Low key attacked by by people for
41:47 saying you don't need all those you know. 11:07:50 We only need, You know, these known bodies, you know. They might text stepped out to Pluto and things, but I think they have important messages for us. 11:08:01 And oh, absolutely Yeah. And I would agree. This discovery of the capabilities is just bringing 11:08:05 Just so much new information to us there's a book i've got written by an English astrology called Alice, and something or other, and I can't remember any she actually used to run a Pope that I used to 11:08:18 go to nearby anyway, and she calls it starry messengers, Alison Chester Lambert. 11:08:27 Yes, I could not remember her last name. Yeah. She invited me to speak to her students one time.
42:33 11:08:34 Oh, it's a fair distance, but not desperately a long way. 11:08:40 Just leave me in England. Yeah, yeah, and that's where I'm from from her area. 11:08:47 So yeah. and and and I used to go to the pub. 11:08:51 She used to run. i'm doing a small world but you know I I but I think you're right. 11:08:57 I think it is as important as the component preparedan revolution, and I think it's unfolding as as we discover more. 11:09:08 You you you've looked at the discovery childhood cherry Club. 11:09:11 She's at 6 leo well at 6 Aquarius, which is where she is today, as we speak having her opposition, are those series was at 6. Aquarius in that discovery chart?
43:29 11:09:31 Oh, how wonderful! Oh, I should include her, too. Oh, yeah and and and I've done this work on series, and I hadn't connected the 2 of them. 11:09:41 But there they are. They are opposite each other, and that discovery, and and series is now called a dwarf planet, not an asteroid. 11:09:52 I have this theory that she's actually kind of a missing personal planet because she's just this side of the asteroid belt, and the cherish way was charioto introduced her to us. 11:10:06 Yeah, it's so beautiful. yeah it's like a it's it's like like a kind of sin or party, and sometimes asteroids are invited in as well or you know something like that
44:18 we could make up a 11:10:21 and some of these and cherry and Cherrylow has rings right. 11:10:29 So? Is she a central, or is she a planet like Satan? 11:10:38 And then the year after that was discovered, which, if I recall, was 2,014 the following year. 11:10:44 Now there's a speculation that kyon also has has rings. 11:10:48 Yeah. And so when when I teach on that I typically I typically call them wedding rings because they've both got rings so far, they're the only centers with rings.
45:04 11:11:04 But hey, there's you know almost 500 discovered even though very still being named. 11:11:12 And now we've got the James web Tell us that It's going to 11:11:21 Yes, yeah, close to pictures supposedly, according to what I've read online, if I understood it properly, that one of the features of this James web telescope is that it is going to be able to 11:11:35 see into the corporate belt, and therefore also the centares. 11:11:41 Yeah in a much more. precise way. in was possible before because it's it's an
45:53 it's not infrared. it's What's the other one I can't remember I too. 11:12:04 Yeah, it's the purple one right ultraviolet it apparently it's. 11:12:13 See it sees in ultraviolet or something and the Hubble sees in Oh, in outfit, or whatever it was, it gets a different perspective. 11:12:25 The other one doesn't get which is really wonderful and and in some of the write-up. 11:12:28 So I read before this: James Web Telescope was was blasted out there. 11:12:34 They do specifically mention Cherokee that that's one of the aims of the journey is to find out more about her.
46:42 11:12:43 Oh, oh, yeah, I think I hadn't read that Oh, that's exactly about that, because I think it's so important. 11:12:49 And you know just just to looking at what's going on in our world today. 11:12:53 Today. she's now on the south node of the U.S.A. 11:12:58 And the the the U.S.A.'s nodes in the siblings chart most of the charts that is there at 6. Leo in Aquarius. 11:13:10 Wow! and Oh yeah, and clearly kind of the the the big changes that we're experiencing in the world are kind of centered in the U.S.A. 11:13:20 Because it's been a with the world power to return, You're guaranteed to be prominent, you know.
47:33 11:13:33 Oh, very much so! and under Venus Star Point return as well. 11:13:39 All the cycles are converging, but Charlotte was a huge part of it, because she's on her opposition right now. 11:13:49 So the discovery point, and where she is right now are on the nodes of the U.S.A. 11:13:54 So that Oh, that's that's very very lovely isn't it, because in a way, when you know when when things are either very stressful over returns. 11:14:06 Oh, where the's a lot of conflict just endemic in a situation it's this this shared low quality that we've been trying to allude to both of us or describe or point to you know
48:23 11:14:24 that's what can hold can hold it. all Okay, Yeah, Yeah, I also sometimes think of her as the as the perfect polarity to a bunch of like wild and really centers who are in they? 11:14:45 Not in the same lineage as Cairo. Yeah. 11:14:49 Because they have a slightly different origin. But nevertheless they're still send us 11:14:57 And so this is a way in which just a generic center does could be seen to be representing the best deal side of human nature. 11:15:12 And of course it is specifically
49:12 a male figure to the best. 11:15:15 Your side of the male the instinctual side, which, of course, is naturally associated with the warrior. 11:15:22 Okay, So I was beyond fascinated to discover that the centers car on Phoenixes with the first 3 to be discovered. 11:15:37 They feature in dante's inferno so specifically in in Canto 12. so i'm a huge fan of that work. I I have I have read the whole thing through more than once I've read it 11:15:54 one once Skype before i'd heard of the centers probably and This was so lovely
50:01 because I had browsed in Dante's Inferno for on on enough for years mostly just looking for 11:16:08 quotes, you know, I couldn't take on the whole thing, but when I did I actually found this detail. 11:16:17 I was led to this detail, Believe it or not by Wikipedia, we could say we could say many things in criticism of it. 11:16:26 But, hey, that was a wonderful connection, and if you if you I'm not sure under what. 11:16:31 But if you search on Wikipedia, you'll also find an image of Centers parading around as the custodians of this particular lake of boiling blood, which part of the Inferno, Inferno, means hell
50:51 11:16:52 yeah, story starts in hell and ends up in Paradise. 11:16:55 So it's important to keep going Well, we're kind of a bit in hell at the moment. 11:17:06 Yeah. is there's a a writer called my Vernon. 11:17:12 Wonderful writing deeply, deeply, feeling, and philosophical and so with and he made a study of Dante's Inferno, which was published last year, which was the 7 hundredth anniversary of Dante's death 11:17:28 and it's he takes one canto at a time, and writes a few pages about it. 11:17:35 So it's like a kind of daily meditation
51:37 but back to the centers. 11:17:40 Their job in the Inferno. So they presided over the seventh ring of hill, which was, oh! 11:17:52 Of Inferno, same wood which was the place where people who had been violent in their lives. 11:17:59 Wind. and this is violent to others it is there's another place where other kinds of violence all the suicidal, and so forth. 11:18:13 But this is violence to others. and so people who go to that place of hell, because they've been violent to others the end up having to go into this pool of boiling blood.
52:26 11:18:28 We have that metaphor in English we talk about, and that my blood was boiling, or my yeah. 11:18:37 So they have to stay there for their allotted time. 11:18:48 And they kept in there for their allotted time by the centers. 11:18:54 We will just push them back down if they try to get out before it's their time. 11:19:00 Wow! that was so poignant, just Yeah. Are you okay? 11:19:06 Do you have a drink, or do you need? It happens to be all the time. 11:19:12 Now I want to read that again I want,
53:16 and you know, just looking at thinking of Chiral being in his own personal health for 900. 11:19:22 And what ever years it was as well he was kind of and he hadn't hurt others, of course. 11:19:29 But but you know he was of experiencing that and and as humans, We've got the 7 you you said those 7 layers or something. 7 7 rings of hill yeah 7 rings of hell. 11:19:46 We've got the 7 check with the 7 original planets and all that. 11:19:51 Okay, it's it's my belief that we are here to learn how to being deep acceptance about of our humanness in all its kind of glory.
54:04 11:20:04 We're never gonna be these perfect ascended wonderful beings being human is messy. 11:20:13 Yeah, and all of these parts are in us. you know in our astrology charts. 11:20:20 We can see them that's all parts of us so you know when are we going to stop thinking? 11:20:24 We can kind of transcend this, and actually live in a alignment with everything. 11:20:32 Pull all those stories together and live in alignment with yes, nature and each other. 11:20:39 To really agree with you. Because, yeah, you know, one can have ideas of perfection. 11:20:48 Perfect ideas. but that is far from the whole story.
54:53 11:20:53 And so I agree completely, with what you've said it's like the you know the job of being here is be here, and maybe actual paradise, or heaven, or whatever you want to call it, is when we actually kind of realize that and kind 11:21:12 of chase each other differently and treat the differently. 11:21:16 Yeah, absolutely. I I think you know heaven and hell are not something which just happens after you die. 11:21:23 Yeah, they're around us, and within us all the time and 11:21:34 That sense of that sense of purification I Think is really important and that's not purification of imp imperfection.
55:45 11:21:46 So we're not like improving ourselves, but what we're doing is kind of purifying that the parts of us that are that that are kind of spiritually blind, and and don't see or feel the light which is 11:22:07 our heritage, and that's. a light that includes all the opposites, and it takes a while Well, the mind can't cope with that at all, actually there is a whole 11:22:25 other, I think I think, to to kind of understand it at a intuitive level, I think,
56:31 and I will. 11:22:33 At the end of this, when I upload this to Youtube. so if you're listening on my podcast go to Youtube. 11:22:40 And look at it i'll post the the currently check discovery chart because it is perfect balance. 11:22:50 I I have never seen any other chart that is this perfect 6 pointed star. 11:23:03 Yeah, I mean you know it's it's rare but it's not desperately uncommon find a six-pointed star, but but usually they're very approximate and you you kind of want them to be a 11:23:15 6 pointed stars. So you overlook
57:17 the fact that it's really approximate. 11:23:19 Yes, you know but i've never seen it another chart like that I have untied, though I've never seen one. 11:23:27 And and you know it's it's bringing in some of the really heavy hitters of change, and and it's in it's in air and fire, so it's it's kind of healing the 11:23:41 divine masculine, in my opinion, as as as Sarah Clo did What I also think about is the fact that so you know the the main set of 2 triangles. 11:24:00 One pointing up and one pointing down. That is your 6 pointed star in air and
58:07 fire. 11:24:08 As Louise just said. but then the elements of earth and water are also represented in the very big way, namely, that each of them only have one planet. 11:24:20 There when you get that situation in any chart. In other words, where the whole field, as it were, of one of the elements, is represented by only one planet, then that planet comes under enormous pressure, almost like the entire field of in this 11:24:44 case Earth, and also water, is only represented by one planet. 11:24:50 So then it becomes magnified in that
58:53 person's chart and life. 11:24:57 Any of you have got that. Try it out and see it through. 11:24:59 Really interesting. Well, it's my moon my it's my only air promot. 11:25:04 Yeah, yeah for for the listeners. 11:25:10 And and Louis and I have moons conjunct each other in the sign of the Twins wouldn't you know it? 11:25:20 Here we are. So 2 guys, Yeah. finally meetings. and this meeting of the minds, 11:25:33 Want to just complete the total about the earth and water 11:25:37 And so you know the the power of water and earth as indicated by this situation
59:46 of them being a singleton that's who would often use And so, when I was thinking about that you know it's like the water it's 11:25:58 Neptune in capricool and so that's like no, Oh, sorry. 11:26:06 But it's got it the wrong way around it's Caron in Scorpio. 11:26:11 Can that be right? Yes, that's right, Yes, and Nptune and Capricorn right? that's right, and the and that tune is it in capitol, and at 28 degrees which is Well, web 11:26:28 which is basically where Pluto is right now and and where the U.S.A.'s Pluto is to go back to all that. I'm, not, you know
1:00:39 I don't want to hold get into the whole U.S.A., 11:26:44 chart, but it is being majorly activated by all of this and and I had I haven't noticed the net. 11:26:53 June in Capitol being in the chart before Wow, so I still with the earth and water being in the condition that they are in Jerry closed, I thought, Well, then, it's current and scorpio 11:27:08 is the healing waters waters of transformation, and then the Neptune in Capricorn. it's. it's like the sacred earth and just thinking of that elementally what is going on 11:27:25 elementally on the earth today that's
1:01:27 very very poignant it is. 11:27:31 It's quite amazing. and you know i'm not gonna share the chart right now. 11:27:35 But you've seen it, Loads you know 2 the the amount of energy in Aquarius, in that chart, and we are moving into the age of Aquarius. 11:27:46 No, no, you know. no matter when people think it started, or I think it, I think it's a process. 11:27:54 Personally We've, been moving into it for a long time, So the the discovery talk of Cherry Clo has the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Jupiter, Uranus, and series, and and Vesta actually the Asteroids 11:28:11 all in a queries. So yes, a few hours,
1:02:16 actually a few hours after her discovery, date and time. 11:28:20 There was a conjunction of Jupiter and Uranus. Yeah, 11:28:24 In a quickerius, and you know it what ever sign that conjunction occurs in which occurs roughly every 12 to 13 years. 11:28:35 It's a big it's a big energy conjunction. 11:28:41 It really is. And it was on it was within a few hours on the same day. 11:28:48 Yeah in the chart there in the 11 soldier all minutes apart. 11:28:53 So. Yes, it would have been just just later that day, and all this is at 5 degrees. 11:28:58 Pretty much 5, plus, as you say, and 5 in numerology is a real number of change. 11:29:04 It's she's she's a big hobbyinger
1:03:06 of change. 11:29:08 But she's holding space for us to yeah absolutely that that's how I feel. 11:29:15 Yeah, amazing. So you know just that if You've got a few more minutes. 11:29:21 Just so more mundane level for the listeners and First of all, I would invite people to look back if they can remember if they've maybe got emails or diaries, or something. 11:29:34 Think where you were when she was discovered. middle of February, 97, and I think some people might be a sounded by that. 11:29:43 I was but also you know. how could people work with her personally? 11:29:48 Do you think? Well, I I think that You know spiritual activities that that help
1:04:03 to generate a strong connection with qualities like silence, even invisibility. 11:30:16 Now this is a very interesting one, because in some ways it is like a polarity to the whole endeavor of the women's movement right from the Suffragettes onwards. 11:30:32 In other words, a a real struggle, a necessary struggle to get visibility, pay, equality, no, and equity in so many other ways, and so forth. 11:30:44 And all of that was, of course, usually important, and will changing in so many ways,
1:04:52 you know, and that is not the only quality that can be represented by the feminine. 11:31:02 That is really really important. And so you know, some of the some of the professions associated with cherry clay or the quality of being a midwife, a dollar. 11:31:20 Hmm were traditionally done by women and that's not to say at all. 11:31:30 Men can't do those things because today more. and more men are indeed doing those things, and and similarly, her husband was a medicine man, an herbalist, a novelist.
1:05:42 11:31:43 And and you know many women with the herbalist. 11:31:47 So medicine women in in society. So again, this is not a gender thing that you say it's qualities, and you know, in a way for one of another way of doing it visually, or in has to be 11:32:04 male and female, but of course it's more than that but to me I'm. very very interested in this quality of invisibility. 11:32:15 Silence, and a kind of silent witness or a silent presence, or holding the space.
1:06:27 I I actually feel that This is absolutely something which Erico brings to the table at the moment. 11:32:39 So this is the the power of which can't be faked and i'm sure probably most of you watching listening. 11:32:54 You know, people who buy their presence can just calm everything down. 11:33:03 Where is, you know, Necessarily, as you say the women's movement and and the fight for equality. and things has actually been quite masculine in its approach.
1:07:13 11:33:13 It's like you know I wanna be out there I wanna be out and in the men's world and and to to fight the fight and to go conflict. that's all so important there is this whole other 11:33:29 side, which in some ways, without wanting to put a value judgment on it's equally important. 11:33:36 Yeah, also, it's about that perfect balance again, and so obviously not everybody is an extrovert and a warrior type in the obvious way. 11:33:48 But there's a kind of internal silent warriorship that can go on invisibly and quietly and without necessarily a word being spoken. 11:33:59 It's about how you hold yourself
1:08:02 in your own space, and in this space that we call the world, and so forth, and that's something profoundly narrative and nourishing as as a as a ground to stand on that arises 11:34:19 from the silence and doesn't act reactively which is not a bad thing. 11:34:30 But this is just so it's not that you have to figure out what to do, and then mount a campaign. 11:34:37 It's that the action arises out of the ground of spaciousness and kind of thing, and I know No. 11:34:47 For myself. I mean there there are days when seems to me i'll listen to the radio.
1:08:54 11:34:55 Then every time I turn it on a horror story of some kind. 11:34:59 Yeah yeah, and you know there's like there's like no way to hide in a way because we are living in a world in which there are many disasters, and much folly and we can't single-handedly 11:35:16 like fix it all and certainly there's there's a part of all of us who doesn't like it that it is that way. we can't fix it all and that doesn't mean that therefore the only option is to 11:35:27 collapse into a feeling of complete helplessness and powerlessness. 11:35:32 Well at a certain level. it is true we can't fix it all just ourselves, and and
1:09:41 having the the trust to be able to feel that helplessness in an honest enough way to give space to whatever might arise. 11:35:53 Next. Yes, whatever you're being called by life itself to enact, or to offer or to follow. 11:36:03 These are times when there's a lot of energy in that kind of a process, because, in a way, what we've we've just been through a long period when many many of our options were really narrowed and they 11:36:17 didn't really that ain't over yet you know no it's not So that's Why, I that's why I think she's so important, and I I know
1:10:26 I know I think we've spoken about this before or 11:36:29 maybe you saw. the video is and I have mentioned that before. 11:36:36 But just a few years ago it was in 2,017. 11:36:41 I did do a very extraordinary session with with a client 11:36:47 In that it. It was truly as if cherry cloak kind of appeared, as it were, in the session, so I didn't see her. 11:36:59 Hmm! and there was, in fact, a very relevant transit which I hadn't picked up because I hadn't included Cheryl in this. 11:37:11 But in this Person's chart with the kind of caffeine came when I suddenly realized
1:11:17 this person was actually living. 11:37:21 The story of Chicago in her life Oh, i've heard you tell it. 11:37:25 Yeah, but you know for anybody who hasn't heard it before. 11:37:29 Yes, her husband was exactly and that stories written up in in detail. 11:37:38 In in the book that Louise mentioned, which will be out hopefully at some point this year. 11:37:45 My contribution in the book is on sheriff lo and There's also another Lady Shelley and team otherwise yeah, 11:38:02 And and yeah, So in that point of
1:12:05 time, you know when I quickly, you know, found where Sheriko was in this clients charge, and then we discussed some of that, she said, Well, where is it now? 11:38:17 Oh, I don't know Look it up it was just beginning to to go over both her ascendant and her husband's ascendant. 11:38:31 Well along with Pluto. Wow! It was, of course, going to be accompanying session, and Pluto in the course of their conjunction. 11:38:43 So during 2020 tutor was conjunct Cherokee. 11:38:50 3 times at the end of that year came the the Jupiter Center conjunction.
1:12:58 11:38:59 And then, at the beginning of the following year, Jericho was conjunct. 11:39:03 Saturn. Yeah. one time exact, but within a very close orb of conjunct the whole way through And do you know, in in traditional astrology there is a process called by the wonderful name of translating the 11:39:25 light. Yes, and that happens when one planet, sort of in degree terms, moves past 2 others, so makes an aspect with planet one, and then moves onto an aspect with planetary 2. 11:39:41 And so that's said that this the third planet transferred the light from one
1:13:47 planet to another. 11:39:49 Oh, I'm going to go and look at all of that, my movement. This is gonna be transformation, Pluto for real. 11:40:09 Yeah, because Jericho translates the light from Pluto to Saturn. 11:40:13 Yeah. And so this is a transformation. it's it's. not only on an abstract level, for real, as in you know, earthly, physical, things definitely have to change and and capricorn is generally, associated with 11:40:32 the patriarchy, too, which is you
1:14:35 know definitely you know I don't think we're returning to a matriarchy, but I think we are gonna shift from this. 11:40:44 Yes, I I just work with yeah I tend to think of Capricorn as a sign. 11:40:52 Well, Obviously it's rule by saturn but I think of it as referring, referring to the authorities drug to the power structure. and obviously that could be a patriarchy. 11:41:04 It could also be a matriarchy but ultimately It's the way the power is held. So that's completely transforming. 11:41:10 Yeah, and it has been a patriarchy so yeah you're, right? 11:41:14 It's it's the structures it could have been either way. And now we're moving to an aquarium, one which is hopefully gonna bring in kind of I mix well and also the the
1:15:30 capacity for groups of 11:41:32 people to speak up. Yeah. make the voices heard to be counted. 11:41:40 It is just to stand up and be counted. Basically, yeah, yeah. 11:41:44 And even you know, we the whole relatively new process of crowdfunding has made possible a lot of really good things. 11:41:58 It really has, and really if we look at where technology is going and things we have the capacity to, and and I know It's been mentioned in political circles. 11:42:09 And i'm not being political here, but really we have the capacity 52, all be able to vote on every issue instead of electing. 11:42:17 Yeah, a hierarchical leader. to kind
1:16:22 of vote for us? 11:42:24 Or yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So with that will happen or not in our lifetime. 11:42:29 So I don't know because we're the same no Oh, well, Melanie, this has been a real pleasure speaking to you. 11:42:42 I've really enjoyed it it's just been great. 11:42:45 I have the feeling we could get. We could brainstorm for another few hours, you know, I think we could, and I think we might do it again at some point yeah, maybe maybe explore some of the other centers too. 11:42:59 But i'm gonna put the link to to the publisher of this upcoming book in the show notes. 11:43:08 If you enter your email into that website, you will get an email when the book
1:17:13 is published. 11:43:15 So excited about this book I think it's it's much needed, because you've written you know a fair amount about these 11:43:23 These wonderful wild creatures. But I think they're speaking to us more and more each day. 11:43:31 So I I think. so. Yeah, Yeah, yeah. and I I think it is the new Copernican revolution. 11:43:39 Indeed, as she said, and let's see what it brings So anyway, thank you again for being here.
