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0:00 Chris Do just sat down with me to share his brutally honest advice to become a sales machine. Chris and I have a combined 50 years of business experience and we've sold to some of the biggest companies in the world. There isn't a thing we don't know about sales. Here are the eight brutally honest steps that will get you more sales than you can ever imagine. Chris, what are we going to learn today? Number one, say what you think. Most of us are afraid to ask for what we want. Clarifying information, budget, scope, all that kind of stuff. And there's a lot of tension and resistance that builds up in us. and we think the stress comes from saying it. Well, what what I've learned in my life is the way to release stress and tension is actually speaking out loud. The example I like to give to people is if you have a friend who's staying with you and has overstated the welcome and is creating creating tension between you and your wife or your partner, that's the tension
0:45 part. The part that you're afraid of doing, it's like, uh, buddy, yeah. So, can you find another place to say cuz my wife and I, we need to get on with our lives. And so when we were able to say it, all of a sudden that stress that we've been feeling is automatically released and now we're good. So I learned this lesson early on in my business life when I hired a business coach when he audited my sales call and he asked me this question like, "How do you know what the clients want?" And I was like, "What do you mean? I'm supposed to know. I'm the designer, the director. They give us a script and I start spitting or pitching ideas to them. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?" goes, "No, if you had them in front of you, what would you want to know?" Well, what inspired this idea? And then he asked me, "Why don't you ever just ask that question?" And I thought it was crash to be able to ask
1:30 people what they want. Like in your relationship with your wife, where do we eat? What kind of cake would you like? And you would want to know those things. But if you ask, then all of a sudden some of the romance and the magic is taken away. So we're supposed to use some magical powers of observation and just into it what people want. That's a silly way to do it because I I would rather ask than guess and be wrong. So say what you think. So when you're want to know what the budget is, just ask him what's the budget. If you want to know how many people are pitching on the project, ask him how many other people are pitching on the project. He gave me permission to ask and say what I think and to say it in the most simplest way possible. And at first it throws people off cuz they're not used to that kind of direct level of communication. Most clients when you say, "How what's the budget?" They'll say, "Well, we're still thinking about it." Or they don't necessarily like you asking it,
2:16 right? or if you ask how many other people are bidding on the project, they don't want to tell you. They want to keep it a secret. They think that revealing some information, you're going to take advantage of them. My whole thing is if you're dealing with a real business person, entrepreneur on the other side, we understand for us to do business together, we must provide information that is critical to us solving the problem. So, you want to hold that as a secret. That's cool. But then maybe you actually once asked a client uh how many how many other people are pitching for the project. They told me 18 people. I instantly stopped working with them. They're just using you. They're just trying to get ideas out. If you're working with two people, maybe three people, you can understand. Yeah. I just think that by asking awkward questions, you think they're awkward, but it will actually save you a lot of pain later if you actually understand how the old person thinks. So, what you think, say it. Connect
3:01 these two things. They're they're the same. So, otherwise, you're going to deal with all this weird anxiety in here. And that's how we get rid of it. I think my I've been married 23 years. I think that's basically I tell my wife, just tell me exactly what you want, and then I know what to do. Mhm. Just make it easy for me. I I love you. I want to make it work. So far so good. You know, every other week we think about getting a divorce, but so far so good. Eventually, she tells me and then and then I can I can say yes or no. I can do, you know, what she needs to to have a good life. So, number two, questions are greater than answers. What I would do is if I were in a workshop with people who are trying to learn sales, I would ask them this question. It's like, what do you believe is more valuable, more powerful questions or answers? And then there's some debate. And it's one of those kind of questions where there's really not a right answer or wrong answer. And eventually some people say answers. I'm like, "Okay, let's talk about that." And
3:47 some people say questions. So the answer people, they would say something like, "Well, answers are more powerful because you know in school you have the answers. You're the smart one. You get all all the questions on the test correct. You get an A. You go to university. You get a scholarship. You get a grant. You move on in life." I said, "Okay, how about you question people? Like questions are more powerful." I'm like, "Why?" And they would say all these things. And I said, "Well, if you believe that questions are more powerful than answers, why did you answer a question with an answer?" What questions do is they open conversations, answers close conversation. And the problem that most of us have is we presume to know and understand a question, so we provide an answer cuz we're trained like dogs. Now, if you and I are talking and we're talking about sales, sales is essentially you desire some future state. You have a desired future state and then you have
4:33 your current state. And what sales would be is to try to help you change to improve your life or to remove pain. Either one is good. So before I can give you a solution, I need to know where are you now and where would you like to be? And so often times when a client would say to you like I need a logo like in that example with the woman you'll speak to later today, she should have asked you more questions but she was like a deer in the headlights of course. So she should say why do you need a logo? What is wrong with the current logo that you have today? What is it that you're looking for and have a dialogue with you? So, one of the things that happens is when you ask questions, you make this person, the person in front of you, feel really important, heard, seen, and possibly understood. And those are feelings that are close to
5:19 love. Because in relationships where you don't feel seen and heard or understood, you don't have those positive emotions. And so, no business is going to be done if I'm in a negative state of mind. So, what I want to do is encourage people, wherever it is that you're in front of, learn how to ask a really great question, an open-ended question that isn't baked in with an agenda or is a binary thing that's leading down to a very specific path. I love this point. I I built a whole career. What's your dream? A totally open question that allows you to find figure out where someone is in their stages of life instantly. By their answer, you can understand where they are in life. My seven-year-old the other day answered something. He didn't actually know the answer. It's baked into us to like I know it. I know the answer. He didn't but he gave an answer. It it's it's it's something we should really reset in ourselves because it naturally in us to ask questions to
6:06 understand the person we're talking to but for some reason we think we need to have the answers. So there's a shift here Simon. Um we've been taught to be great problem solvers. So we're really quick to rush to the solution. If we just spent more time understanding what the problem is, we're going to build the natural rapport, possibly empathy, and see angles and problems we hadn't been privy to until we ask those kinds of questions. So, we want to shift away from being problem solvers to problem seekers. What's a good problem? We need to solve a big problem, a problem that's going to be impactful to your business. So, if you want uh to get more deals, stop selling, start closing, ask better questions. Number three, listening, believe it or not, is your secret power. What people do often times, they ask a question and
6:51 they just stop listening because people ask questions or just wait for an opportunity to speak again. So, we're not in conversation to understand, we're in conversation to respond. So, the way I can tell is if somebody asks me a question and I give them the answer. You give me a question, I give you an answer, and what you do is you give me another question, you get another answer. And we see this in interviews a lot. And I I would tell people I don't like being on podcasts where they're checklist interviewers. Maybe you know them. Yeah. Maybe you've done it. Maybe I've done it. I don't know. When you have a list of questions and you're like, it doesn't really matter what you not listening to the person or what they're saying. So you're not following a story. You're just following the list. I'll say something that's weird, shocking, and disturbing. Like whoa. And then just move on to the next question. So I know they don't even care. So the
7:38 thing is if you ask a question and they give you an answer, now you must listen. And then listening requires a lot of brain power. You know, I'm sorry this is a bad brain, but you have to like really think. Does look like my brain. My brain is a marker. So, it's like I have to process what does this mean? I have to literally understand the words, unpack what we'll refer to as suitcase words. Suitcase words are words that have multiple meanings inside of them. So, you have to unpack that and really understand. And then we have to like read the subtext. What are they not saying in what they're saying? So, if you ask your wife, "Is it okay if I go and hang out with the crew for lunch?" And she's like, "Whatever." You're like, "Cool. I got permission." You're not understanding subtext here. You don't understand tone. You're missing everything. So, you better stop
8:23 in your track. Say, "Wait a minute. Something is wrong. Maybe I've done something prior to this moment. I need to go and figure this out." So when you ask a really good question, the thing that you want to do is just listen and then ask another question about the answer you just got until you reach because you're listening as well. If you ask a question of what you were just asking, I think so. And and you know then there are threads that you can pull on and I think sometimes people do this subconsciously to see if what they say matters to you. I think Kevin Dailyaly writes about this in his book Socratic Selling. It's called full value listening and it's telling the other person everything that you say is really really important. So I suggest people take notes. So we get a little notebook out and there's this idea that eye contact is really important and I
9:10 have a problem with eye contact mostly because I'm an introvert. When somebody's looking at me when I'm telling them very complicated things the whole time I'm thinking are you going to remember any of this? But if somebody's got a notebook and they're like, "Um, yes, sir." Okay. And this, you know, when they have restaurants where they're taught not to write down your order, I always I'm always amazed when they can do it, but you're also terrified the whole time like, are you going to get my lactose intolerant, gluten-free diet, right? And I like my protein or whatever, prepare it a certain way, and it's amazing, but it's very reassuring. I think so. And it says you're really important. Think about the most important people, CEOs, presidents of countries or corporations. You know who's in charge because they're speaking, everyone else is doing this cuz what you say is important. So I
9:57 would say take notes and let people know I'm not looking at you because I think what you say is matter and I don't want to miss anything. We need to to listen to understand, right? Versus to listen to respond. And that's the problem. So, even when you think the person's done speaking, wait 3 seconds. Make sure. And if you say something and they're about to say something, stop. You're just so excited to say things and to prove that you're smart that what you're doing is you're just being really annoying. It's true. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, being patient and listening is so powerful. I think it's something it's a skill that you think is saying nothing, it shouldn't be a skill, but it kind of is. control your mind and and your um impulse to so if we can just learn to stop, pause,
10:43 listen to, fully process what's going on, ask deep follow-up questions, we're going to do ourselves a giant favor. Here's the good news for most of you. Listening is one of the most natural things you can do. It requires almost no skill that you have to develop. You just have to be quiet and and process. The quietest amongst us, the most introverted person I know, this in fact is your superpower. If you want to increase your sales, one of the smartest things you can do early on is build trust. And a simple way to do that, a professionallook domain name. Just like Chris do is emphasizing perception is everything. And the right domain name instantly elevates how your brand is seen. I always recommend starting with a domain name that instantly communicates what you do, especially if you're selling something online. That's why I love using storere for e-commerce
11:29 businesses. Big names like Mr. Beast, Ryanna, and Ronaldo use it because it's clean and clear and tells customers exactly what to do. In fact, websites with dotstore domains, have seen up to 87% more traffic, and double the Google ranking, which means more visibility and more sales. Right now, you can grab your own.tore domain, just 99 cents using the code Simon at the link in the description. And when you do, you'll also unlock free access to elevate.store. That's over $2,500 US worth of perks from top tools like Canva, Shopify, and more. You can buy your dotstore domain through GoDaddy or Namecheep, but the discount code only works through the link below. Number four, never justify. Pathological liars tend to think that by explaining and overexlaining and providing an excruciating amount of detail to things
12:16 that their lie has credibility. And so, one of the signs of pathological liars is they tend to be overly verbose. They say so much. So, when somebody asks you, "What's your price?" Say, "It's $1,000." Stop. Full stop. Don't say anymore. The other way that I see people do it is like, "It's $1,000 cuz I work really hard. You know, I went to this school and you have a lot of different needs and there's a lot of touch points." It makes you sound really, really weak. Mhm. And the reason why I think you're saying it and justifying is because you don't believe it yourself. And I pick up on that. You're signaling to the other person this I'm inexperienced. I think I might have charged more than I think I'm worth. I don't know if you need this. So, all kinds of things about that, right? And here's how we make it personal because we're going to get into dating. If you were to meet somebody that's really attractive and you're and
13:02 you say like, "Would you like to go out on a date?" And they say to you, "Why would I date you?" I'm like, "There's no reason. I would just get up and walk away." Why do you hold such superior position over me that you're going to ask me to justify myself to you? And if I have to, the relationship is going to be lopsided and you're going to be abused the entire time. M I would say to them, I'm curious about why you think I should date you. I just flip it on them and no one likes that. So you didn't like the question. Why did you ask me that same question? We arrive in a business relationship as equals. There are things that you do to seed the higher ground and justifying is one of them. So never justify. Just say what you believe and stop. Even if you don't believe it, just stop and see what happens. Bite your tongue. It's so true. It's so true. I was just
13:48 thinking the other day um someone asked me to a speaking gig and I said $50,000 for the fee and just a text and I didn't say anything after and then I could see they were thinking about that and then they sent me a message why so high and I said I said to them I don't need to explain it. It's a yes or no really isn't it? You said that yeah they said yes. Oh but my point is you know you know like I can try to explain that you know I've been in business 35 years. I could be doing other things during that time. I could probably do a video and make that money or I could spend time talking to the audience they want me to talk to. I could do that. Yeah. And I and I do think it starts to belittle the thing that I believe to be true that I have value. So it's an interesting thing because again when clients in particular, people listening to this and they're pitching to a client. A client wants you to justify it. So they end up in the power dynamic
14:35 of being in control of the contract. Whereas if you don't explain it, it's it's really powerful. Yeah. I think there's like two concepts attached to this. And I'm I'm no like person words smmith person here, but there's the word just and there's the word justice. That must be related to the word justify. When I think of justice, I think of like the scales of justice, like it's all balance, right? And so they say, well, there's a big price and they need to know this other thing. They need to find balance in that. It is not my job to tell you why it's worth this. It's my job to provide you the information that you need to ask you smart open-ended questions so that you can determine if what I do is worth the amount of money. That's it. And the word just, we know that if you put the word just in front of anything, what just does is it diminishes that thing. It's just
15:22 cleaning the car. It's just another change order. It can't be that hard. So, people use this language to make what you do seem smaller, trivial, and less important, and less valuable. So, I'm concerned about these two ideas as it connected to justify. I don't want to justify. Number five is how to handle objections. There's a couple things we need to know about objections. And if you're not familiar with sales, you might be thinking to yourself, what is an objection? Objection is a question as to like, I'm not ready to buy. It's it's it's how they express resistance. They're not ready to say yes. Most of us have really negative opinions about this. So we we approach an objection with a bad attitude and probably respond with a violent comment. For example, they might say something like an objection would be why is it so much money or can this be done quicker or are
16:11 there can I pay an installment? There's a lot of different things that hold up them from saying yes. So I want to reframe what an objection is. I'm going to use the thing from a dating book. It's called an IOI. Have you heard of this? It's an indicator of interest. Okay. If I'm talking to you about a service that you're not interested in in, my theory is you'll never express an objection. You'll say, "Send me the brochure. Send me a proposal. See you later. I got to talk it over with somebody." And that's the end of it. You don't ask more questions. So, when people ask questions about it, they're actually really interested. And I take that as a positive sign, not a negative sign. So, we need to reframe our mindset when we hear an objection. We we need to pause and say, "This is good. I think they're interested." It's like when you're fishing and there's a nibble on the hook. You're like, "Wait, wait, wait. Don't reel them in yet. just relax. But there is activity here versus
16:57 I'm not interested. The fish wins right away. That's what happens all the time. So, typically speaking, not always, when the prospect says to you, "Send me the proposal. Send it to me." And whatever, it means no. It just usually means no in polite culture because they're not willing to say no. How do you handle objections? You handle it by embracing it. And there's like um like a mental jiu-jitsu thing that we do. We embrace it and we we pivot. I'm going to share a story. I'm in the meeting with some staritects, some famous architects here in LA, and they were looking to redo their identity system and their website. And I'm in the room with the three principles. And they, one person says, "Chris, I'm going to be honest with you." He's a really direct communicator. I appreciate that. He says, "You're not
17:43 the typical person we would choose. Everybody else that we're looking at has this much experience working with architectural firms, understands our needs very well, understands the market. you don't have a single thing. So, you're not our typical choice. So, here's where we use a little words word play and we kind of embrace it. So, I said to him, you're right. We don't have the experience that you seek. The challenge here is when you hire firms that have done all this work, what you'll get is one of the things they've already done before that they're likely to do again for one of the competitors. If you want that, you should hire them because that's a safe route. to pick us would be to do something atypical. So yeah, you're absolutely right. We're not typical at all, but we're not going to give you what they're giving everyone
18:29 else and you have to decide if that's what you want or not. It it's it's psychologically so interesting cuz you're also like you're taking off the table almost your cho that you as a choice instead of pushing you further towards you're saying, "Okay, take off the table. You're right. If you don't want this thing that's different and unique and special and original, let me just take it away from you. Mhm. So, I'm going to do a little example, a little illustration for you. Okay. This is a waffle cone. Delicious handmade small batch. Say this is vanilla. This is chocolate. Okay. And I ask you, what is your favorite flavor of ice cream? What would you say? Chocolate. Okay. The more I try to convince you vanilla is better. What do you have to do? Just objections. Vanilla is better. Why would you say that, Simon? you know chocolate's not good for you, vanilla is the preferred
19:14 is the most popular choice in the world. What would you say? I'd say yeah chocolate is my thing man. Okay. So what happens is you have a belief even if you don't believe in it and as soon as you say it and I challenge you you're going to feel like you have to defend your your choice otherwise you're going to feel dumb. So one of the biggest like not laws but like like things that drive us the biggest motivation in our life is the need to be consistent with ourselves. You've heard this before. Yeah. So, we want to be consistent with ourselves. And when I ask you to be inconsistent with yourself, you're going to fight and you're going to push back. Even if you know you're wrong, you may have got into an argument with a friend, a spouse, somebody, and they know they're wrong, but they just can't back down. Or maybe you were the idiot that was wrong. You're like, "No, I need to like, no, I' I've never said that." Even though, you know, in the back of your
20:00 mind, I'm wrong. I should just admit it. So, when you push against someone's request, observation, you're asking them to dig deeper. So, not only are you convicted that chocolate is superior, you're now convinced that it's two, maybe four times superior now. And the more I do this, the more I'm building a gap between us versus building a bridge. And I'm pushing you more into your corner because no one wants to sound like they're stupid or they they're not thoughtful communicators. So, what I want to do is instead I'd just say, is chocolate the best flavor for you? Yes. It's the only flavor you would ever try in your life for now. Yeah. For now is What is it about chocolate that you really love? I don't know. It's the texture mainly. Chocolate in my mind. It doesn't It's
20:46 not just flavor. This is amazing. So I don't think of chocolate as something with texture. So are you like adding things in your mind? Like this is a rocky road chocolate. Okay. Awesome. You like chunks and things. By the way, this is making me want an ice cream. I You're so good at this. I don't care at this point. I'll have these. Go. What's the spin? How are you going to make me have vanilla? I'm not Jedi mind trick. There's no vanilla you want. There's no vanilla I want. But here's the thing I see. So if I make a deduction, you like a certain kind of mouth. There's the chewiness of the marshmallow, the nutty. So there's there's like variety. So I can see why you would not want vanilla cuz vanilla is vanilla. It's like used as an example for boring. Yeah. I was always say something like this. It's like, well, this vanilla is only being made today and it's never coming back on the menu tomorrow. You can have chocolate anytime. Would that
21:31 be the the kind of like I wouldn't do that because that's to me that's like a hard cell. Okay. I want you to come to the conclusion. So the best way I know how to do this is get this off the menu and you and I look at the problem together. What is it that you like about this? And based on what your preferences are, may I make a recommendation that might introduce you to 20% new flavor, not 100% new flavor. All right, let's talk about brand. I think I heard Michael Margolus talk about this and he said that a product service without a story is a commodity. And so brand to me has real value in the world because it's the price we will pay above its equivalent. And the more we're willing to pay above the cheaper alternative is how strong the brand is. When it comes to sales, if you are cookie cutter, no one knows who you are, there's no reputation around you, you're
22:17 going to have to compete on other things. But if you have a powerful brand, you're well known, there are things that you're doing, it accelerates the relationship and it allows you to command a premium. How do we know? Okay. There's a small company. Yeah. The small company essentially puts this on a t-shirt and the t-shirt we you and I might buy a a no brand shirt. And I don't know if you're an anti-brand guy. Let's just assume you're not an anti-brand guy cuz that falls apart. So, we might buy this for like six bucks. If we go to Costco or something like that, we might buy three or four of them for like 10 bucks because there's no brand because it serves utility and it's functional. It covers our body. That's all it does. As soon as we attach that logo to this, the price of the shirt goes to probably $36.
23:03 Why is that? Because that is the value that you add to it. So when people like, "Well, brand's worthless." Well, they don't understand brand the right way. This is true about water. It's true about cars. It's true about books. It's true about everything because inside of this is what all books are. Pieces of paper with ink in it. But this says something about who this person is, what they represent, and I'm going to buy this book. Yeah. I I think it was um Ana Lape who said something like this says um every dollar you spend is a vote for the world that you want or want to live in. And so we get to choose. Maybe you're um I don't know the Adidas logo well enough to draw, but let's say you're an Adidas person, right? we choose this company wins or this company wins and you're on an Apple
23:49 side or you're on a a Google or Galaxy side, whatever it is, you're on one side or the other, you're going to pick all the time. We're voting. So brand has a lot of power. When it comes to sales, if you have a strong personal brand, if you created content, if you've been of service to people, if you show up consistently, first of all, I feel like I know you. I think I might like you. And we're already on our way to trust, which we just talked about. Trust that was the cue, right? So, we can build trust at scale by developing and harnessing our brands. I think personal brand nowadays, people, some people I meet say, I don't want to build a personal brand. My argument is if you don't want to, it doesn't matter. It's still happening. I think we all have brands. And I'm
24:34 gonna just be a nerd with you. We have brands with a little B. The kind of brand I'm talking about is brand with a big B. Okay. So, brand is an impression. It's a reputation. It's a gut feeling about you. So, everyone in this room now having heard me talk for long enough has an impression of me. But maybe a different group like 12-year-olds would have a different opinion. My parents might have a different opinion. So, there's all these impressions and these different ideas. So, when we have enough people come to the same conclusion as to who you are, then you have a brand. But that's just a very small circle. What I'm talking about brand with the big B is this at scale, right? So in your local community, people know you. Your co-workers, they know you. You have a brand. You're the person who shows up all the time. You're always optimistic about work. That's a
25:21 good brand small B to have. But outside that room, no one knows that who the heck you are. But we live in a wonderful time amplified by social media and content that we have relatively democratic reach that that same person putting some effort intention and understanding how this game works can develop this at massive scale. Number seven is a big one to be in the service of others. Earlier today I was telling you about sales and we need to reframe sales because if we have a negative emotion around sales then we're not going to do it well. We won't want to learn. We won't get better. That's why so many people that you approach in the street are very timid, reluctant to say whatever it is they want to say. So let's look at sales. What is sales? Okay, sales is to serve. To have this idea
26:06 that somebody's needs are more important than yours, that you approach things without an agenda. It's to ask questions and not to give answer. Is to listen with great intention and ask great follow-up questions that we understand and surface deeper meaning motivations. E is to empathize, to understand what they're really going through. Somebody's livelihood depends on making the right decisions, whether it's a job or a business or investment. And the last thing is we're going to summarize. So to me, that's sales. So the first and most important thing is to have the mindset of servitude. So when we say I've served, what does that conote to you? I think it means you understand the person's needs and you're giving them what they need. I mean, in pop culture, when somebody's like, "Thank you for your service. I've served." Yeah. Is there a connotation to you?
26:52 I don't know if there's a conotation. Brit military. Thank you for your service. Thank you for I had someone say it to me today when we were up at the Hollywood sign. That's your They're talking about me. No. Well, I I said, "Thank you for your service to them because they were in the military." No, but I still felt a sense of gratitude that they were because they literally put their lives on the line. Fight for our freedom. The ultimate thing, isn't it? They put their life on the line for for for what you believe and what they contribut. And it's a really great story to tell young men and women to put their lives on the line for a higher purpose or an idea. Good story to tell. So when we see people, we salute them and we show them respect and we honor them. So what that means is they're willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for a bigger goal. So if you want to be better at
27:38 sales, you should understand what is the other person's bigger mission and goal in life and put aside your own needs. M the problem is most people approach sales as I need to make money. I need to be validated. I need to pay for this or that and they just make it all about themselves. So you want to act as a fiduciary if possible and help them make the best decision for them despite it not being good for you. So we want to be of service to others. And when you do that, your mindset changes. Everything about you changes. So when I do a sales workshop, I'll say, uh, I'm grateful for you all to be here. I'm grateful that we have the space and that we're today's a beautiful day and that we're going to have great food later. What are some things that you are all grateful for? And we just do this gratitude exercise. Can can we do can we be grateful for the things that don't even need to be grateful for? Like I'm I'm grateful that this chair is well or
28:23 this table is wellmade. I'm grateful that this light is working well. It's not flickering in my face right now. So, if we start to adopt this mindset of gratitude, it changes our emotions and say, "Well, let's transfer this over into have a sales conversation." Hold on to that feeling for as long as you can while we're having this conversation because it'll change the way you what the way that you show up, the language that you use. It'll affect your body language, right? So, if you go into a date or a business meeting full of anxiety, you're you're going to sweat more. You're going to probably shake nervously and the words are going to come out funny. You tease my chatter, all these kinds of things, that's not actually setting you up for success. So, you want to adopt the right mindset and believe it. Natural-born seller. I didn't think I was a natural-born salesperson. Turns out I am. But anyway, I'd love to hear your opinion. Yeah, exactly. You as an introvert, your
29:09 own description, you wouldn't be described typically as a salesperson. No, but you definitely are. I thought I hated sales and I told people, I hate selling. I hate pitching. And my coach at that time says, you just hate it cuz you're not good at it. Let's help you get there. And then I learned to love sales. And I don't have any the old emotional negative charge and response that I have. And I want to share a story with everyone here. So years ago, I I go and visit this amazing remote fishing lodge in in uh British Columbia off the central west coast and I happened to be paired up with some friend of a friend and he goes, "Chris, I love what you do. You know what they need here? They need better marketing and design." I'm like, and he goes, "You know what? I'm going to ask them. I'm going to sell this and I'm going to get you this project." I'm like, "Great, cuz I don't want to do
29:56 sales." But he's like, "But you're going to have to give me like 30% of the project." I'm like, "I guess that's fair." Sort of. I'm like, "Oh my god." He's gonna have one conversation because I don't have the guts to ask for what I want. So he goes, "Okay." And he's a very outgoing guy. So I'm outside literally looking in and the plane's coming to pick us up and everything. So I'm like, "There's not a lot of time left here." He goes inside. I can see him talking to the general manager, blah blah blah. He comes out. I'm like, "Yeah, and in yes, no, I couldn't ask for it." I'm like, "Oh, okay. Plane hasn't come." So I walk into the room thinking, "You know what? because of my own shyness and my aversion towards sales, I was going to pay somebody a lot of the money for doing almost none of the work. So, I walked in there, I sat down with the general manager, and I asked him this question. I says, "You know what? I love being here so much. This is an amazing
30:43 experience. You must have like the calendar booked out forever." He he pauses. He turns to me. He's like, "Chris, you know what? Our clientele are literally dying because to be able to afford to go here, you are of a certain age." and then they have health problems and they literally pass away. He goes, "I I I need to fill this calendar cuz we don't make money unless it's a fully booked season." And I said to him, his name is Ernie. I said, "Ernie, I know you don't know this about me, but in my life outside of here, this is what I do for a living. And I'd love to help you if this is of interest to you." He goes, "Absolutely. Should we follow up?" And so that was a really important lesson in my life that opportunities are going to pass you every single day of your life if you're unwilling to learn a skill and to put yourself out there and to risk
31:29 the most horrible thing you could have happen. Somebody's like not interested. Well, your life didn't really change because it's going to continue on just as ways before. But we're so fearful of rejection that we'll do anything possible to make a thousand excuses why we shouldn't put ourselves out there to harm ourselves ultimately. So that was my journey into learning how to ask for the sale, how to have conversations with people in real life everywhere I go and to make it the most natural thing. And it's really just about having a conversation with somebody and understanding what they're going through and seeing if there's a natural fit. If there's a fit, we can work. If not, we just move on. Best salesperson in my agency, Fluid, which I built out of Hong Kong, which I sold to Price Waterhouse Cooper. That agency's number one salesperson was our accountant. And it's because she used to go and have lunches
32:16 with other high-profile accountants in big companies and they'd sit around a table and they'd be talking about what they're doing and she'd talk with joy about how we just helped the company come out of bankruptcy and we saved another company and she'd be telling all these people and then they'd go back to the office and tell their CEOs about this company that her friend works at and next thing I get a phone call can you come in Simon and you know see how we so she was just telling a story about what she was doing. She just was proud of her work even though she was only the accountant. I say that very important role but like she was the accountant. She wasn't doing the creative. She wasn't doing the strategy. She wasn't doing the sales. She was a number one salesperson. I'm going to imagine as an accountant there was not a lot of BS in this person. No. No. But the opposite of BS. So you can say a naturalb born seller is no BS.
33:01 I actually think Yeah. And that's the opposite to what we think. Yeah. Yeah, we think it's all car salesmen selling you a car that's going to break down when you leave the lot, which is just not how it is. And the other idea that we can think about is the best salespeople aren't selling at all. They're telling stories. So, what we want to do is we want to create stories that are repeatable. Mhm. And it sound to me like she was very good at telling repeatable stories. A repeatable story is I tell you, you tell somebody something and it spreads. So, there's certain components we have to have in a story. So, usually it's it's reduced down to three things. There's a character, there's a want, and then there's an obstacle. If we can just have those three components in a story, we're well on our way. So, this is a very simple framework. Thanks very much for listening. We'll off to have some chicken. We'll see you later.
