The Business Expert: The SECRET FORMULA That Launches Billion-Dollar Companies!

0:00 when you are chasing a dream you're going to be happy about a third of the time I have lost and failed more times than I've succeeded we don't talk about that I felt like it was the end of like my company and my career but it wasn't it was just a failure one of America's richest self-made women fashion and business Powerhouse Emma greed I spent such a huge part of my life being so crippled by fear for so long that held me back it was rough before we jump into this episode I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier healthier and more healed all I want you to do is click on the Subscribe button I love your support it's incredible to see all your comments and

0:45 we're just getting started I can't wait to go on this journey with you thank you so much for subscribing it means the world to me the bestselling author and host the number one Health and Wellness podcast on purpose with J shett hey everyone welcome back back to on purpose the number one Health podcast in the world thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to become happier healthier and more healed you know that my goal is to introduce you to incredible thinkers thought leaders people are making an impact and a difference in the world rule Breakers people who are changing the way we think lead and live and today's guest is someone I've wanted on for a long long time so I'm very excited that I finally have her sitting opposite me I'm talking about the one only Emma greed CEO and

1:32 co-founder of good American the first fully inclusive fashion brand that celebrates all dimensions of female power in October 2016 Emma launched good American alongside Khloe Kardashian what started as the largest denim launch in history good American is now an iconic inclusive fashion line of denim ready to wear swim shoes and active wear Emma is also a founding partner and chief product officer of skims a Solutions oriented brand creating the Next Generation of underwear loungewear and shapewear you already knew that and co-founder of safely an accessible premium Home Care brand dedicated to creating highquality plant-based cleaning products Emma is now recognized as one of America's richest self-made women by Forbes and serves as chairwoman

2:17 of the 15% pledge and also as a board member of baby to baby and for me beyond all of this I'm just happy to be sitting with a fellow Brit in LA and just so grateful Emma because I've been watching you I've been following you your energy whether it's a picture or a video is so magnetic and so real and now I meet you in person I'm like it's amazing so thank you thank you for being here honestly I could not be more happy to be here a definitely because you're a fellow Brit but I have been listening and watching and reading you for so long this is like the thing that I've been most excited about for the longest time so thank you for having me today very happy it's a big like tick for me I'm like yes let's

3:02 do it oh you're the sweetest and I want you to know literally my whole team was so excited you were coming today everyone is such major fans I can't even imagine that even when you say I'm like really true I'm like oh no I want to go back to I remember that you and Chloe were doing a live years ago yes and I literally just came on because I saw you both live and I came on and I was just saying hey guys you know like just being friendly and we were like you shifted the entire I just want everyone to understand this they're on a live talking about their incredible brand that is like crushing it and little old me comes on we're like yay we love him and it was the sweetest thing like and I was like how did I felt terrible so I logged off cuz I felt like no no no we where's he gone it was so sweet and I

3:48 was just like how conscious and kind and thoughtful and anyway I want to dive straight into your incredible journey that's why we're here today to understand you the human behind this incredible journey and incredible story and I want to start off with what is your earliest childhood memory that you think is indicative and defines who you are today that is such a brilliant question this is what you do right you ask the best questions I'm so glad you say why did you start an American um you know it's so interesting I come from East London and you know East London is like you know it's like coming from like Long Beach Inglewood or Brooklyn do you know what I mean it's like it's the street it's the part of London that when you know if you go back 30 years ago

4:35 when I was a kid is just not the place where you would happily hang out I had a fantastic upbringing there you know and I think it's very defining East London has been very defining of me my personality you were really raised to you know in a in a community to have huge respect for the people around you huge trust actually for the people around you but it was pretty devoid of any aspiration and certainly any any Glamour and I was one of those kids that just kind of grew up like always kind of looking at what could be next and what was in my future and I just fell into this like fashion magazine land you know it's like I would do my paper out I'd get the money from that I spend it on an issue of like Bogue or l or Mary Clair and it was that great moment sort of

5:21 late 80s early '90s in England where we had you know so many incredible movements you know Brit pop Brit art but all of those supermodels you know it's like Naomi and Kate Moss and I saw that as a means of escapism I never thought about it as a potential for a job but I was like let me just lift out of where I am and aspire to something that was beautiful and aspirational because I couldn't see that anywhere around me and so when I think about my childhood I think partially about this piece of like East London where there's an honesty and an authenticity and a level of just like being the person that you say you are like living by a certain set of values and then this other part that was like get me out of there do you know what I mean and that's the honesty of it really

6:08 yeah and how do where do you think that comes from I think some people are like you know we become products of our environment and so if some people are in a group of people or in an area that is unambitious or not striving it's easy to fold into that where did that come for you personally like was it someone in your life was it something you read was it the magazines like where did that Bel come that there could be more there may be more there is another place to go to you know I think that it must have come from my mom in some ways because I honestly I didn't know anyone that owned their own business every where I come from everyone worked a job and you work for somebody else and jobs were seen as exactly that there was no career there was no vocation there was no like purposeful doing of what you do it's like you get up you went to work you probably found it miserable and you Tred

6:54 to get out of there as quickly as you could and for me I really thought that you know there has to be a better way to live I was like shouldn't there be some excitement and enjoyment but I don't know where I got it from the sense of value and the sense of ambition has always been in me and people always say to me you know like how did you get to where you are and I go well it's much more simple than people think you know it's like I really value myself and I really value my goals and I don't think it's much more complicated than that but I was taught that by my mom who was very very much like listen Emma you're not better than anybody else but nor is anyone better than you and so when people talk about impostor syndrome like I look around I'm like that that's just

7:40 made up like every we all feel exactly the same like deep deep down and that sense of me feeling like I could achieve was just built in like I I've never felt a lack of confidence I've never felt less than I always felt like if I worked hard enough and I really like put everything into it that I could achieve I still feel like that today I don't expect things to be easy but I i' I've never had a sense of I couldn't yeah what a great way for your mom to set you up like what an amazing recipe but no it's it's beautiful to hear that because I love that perspective of no one's better than you and you're not better than anyone like that's such a great equalizer absolutely and the two things are really important right because I grew up with such a respect for

8:27 everybody else around me regardless of like where they come from or you know what they were doing and I think that you know as a kid I was surrounded by a lot of people that were doing what they had to do to get through the day and I never looked down on anyone I always thought well you know what as long as you are doing something you find an interest in something and for me that came at a very early age in fashion but it was much more a means of escapism than me sitting there and like really appreciating the clothing or the craft it was like it was a means to dream yeah absolutely I love that and tell me about you touched on it there but I want to talk about your first job and I like doing this with people because what's really interesting to me is people forget especially when someone's at the peaks of their careers and achieving

9:12 incredible things like when people ask you the question of like how did you get to where you are it almost takes away from the fact that there was a first job that wasn't this especially now right because we have this idea es through like social media that everything happens overnight and I think you know it's like I've been grafting away since I was 12 years old and like boom I get some success at 40 and people think you're an overnight success I have worked every job imaginable I had a paper round when I was 12 until I was 15 I worked in a delicatessen I worked in cloes shops I served in restaurants it's like I've done every job in fashion that you could do at the lowest possible level imaginable while not being paid right it's like I've done all of it but actually for me you know when you talk about people and your point of view on

9:58 life like I am a naturally POS of a naturally positive distribution disposition I always am a person that thinks about the glass being half full and so even when I worked in that Deli and I was making a sandwich I was going to make you the best turkey sandwich you've ever had in your life and I would wait and look at you and be like how good is that sandwich isn't that an amazing sandwich I chose the best light amount of turkey with the right amount of the pickle and I'd make it look nice and I'd cut it beautifully like on the plate and do you know do you know what I mean so for me I can take pride in anything and I also take a huge amount of learnings from everything so for me it's like I used to think well one day like this will be useful to me like one day learning how to make a perfect cappuccino or making a customer happy or

10:44 discussing how things work in a shop or a delic essent will be useful to me and I actually think about all of those experiences as being very formative um and I enjoyed all of them you know it's like I've just I've really worked and I think everybody talks so much about hard work but they don't really talk about like unenjoyable work I had a lot of unenjoyable jobs that I just had to get through but I never ever let it put me off I always saw them as a means to the end you know and so I think when we talk about that now like what is hard work actually means it means getting up and thinking about the end goal when you're nowhere even close to it right but you can see a pathway and for me it was always about that I could always see very clearly that I'm going to do that

11:29 to get to that to get to that and I've been quite um been quite planned I feel in so many ways in my life yeah and I'm so glad you raised that point because I I feel the same way that you don't have to love a job to learn from it no and I think we all are thinking well I hate my job I dislike it it's the worst it's a waste of time I'm in the wrong place but actually if you just shift that to be like what can I learn what experience do I not have how can I interact how do I not want to behave like this boss drives me crazy I'll never be this boss I remember I had a like that and I used to literally write down the back of my book like you should never ever speak to people like that or call someone out in that way and I think that's been so formative of what type of leader I want to be but the two things for me haven't been mutually exclusive right I think

12:16 that you can two things can be true at the one time you can be unashamedly ambitious and focused on what it is that you need while also being an inspiring an empathic leader who lifts up people up and so I've been thinking about those type of things since I've been a boss you know for the last 15 years as a direct reflection of what I didn't experience when I was an employee and so I actually think God all of those experiences were really good for me because now I know what I don't want to do yeah absolutely I did a paper round too by the way didn't you that my first ever that was Heavy work it was it was Heavy work but that's where I feel like I got my appreciation for the mornings I'm such a like early bird and I remember doing those paper rounds in the dark in England and it was kind of amazing cuz you'd like most houses were

13:01 quiet quiet and then you'd see this like one house where like there's a little glimmer happening and I thought I learned the power of the mornings from that particular job like getting out getting a head start I'd go home I'd put on my school uniform before any of my sisters I'd be sitting there with a cup of tea while they were all like scrambling around and I was like this early morning stuff there's something to it you know wow that's interesting so I used to do mine in the evening oh did you because I didn't have to do in the morning so I do it after school what about your people getting the papers what happened to I don't know behind that's what I was told to that's what I was told to I don't think anyone read the paper amazing but I would like I'd walk around with my uh headphones on I'd be listening to Eminem and I'd have like I know that I know that paper yeah and I have this like really weird looking like trolley that pull around

13:48 and then I have to take the papers into a bag that bag stuned my gr you are bringing me back I believe that too I have like a lopsided shoulder because of that bag it was so bad but yeah I learned the same thing like for me so all the kids in my area what they used to do the other kids who did the paper routes they used to throw the papers off the edge of the train track or like in a bush or whatever it was so then the guy who ran whatever company it was that did the paper routes he said to me goes Jay you're the only reliable person I have so I'm going to give you all their streets and you get PA like that quit in yeah exactly you're out here making money yeah it was amazing and and it's I love that you said that that you learned and I love the passion I wish you were at my local Delhi like you know that stuff still happens today I interviewed um last year I was doing a show for

14:33 YouTube and I interviewed this Tik tocker called Marquel Washington all right and if anyone doesn't know who he is he's awesome like great energy super talented young guy and he was I think he worked in a Subway wow and he was he used to dance and sing while he served and not only did he used to upload that to Tik Tok he got found that way and now he's got this incredible career and I love that energy of like back then when you were doing it and it took you maybe a lot longer to find that success he was doing it more recently he found it but it's interesting to see that it's the same sort of what was what was the hardest job that you did the most unenjoyable the most uncomfortable where you actually looked at and went maybe this not worth it like was what was the one that pushed you to the edge well you

15:20 know it's so interesting it was probably the job that I did before starting my first company because such a part of that I worked in a fashion show production company which if you imagine I want to be in fashion you think yes the reality of that is that you're building stages you're working on this like concept of like you know whatever you're producing for three months the show goes up and down in 10 minutes everybody goes off to the Afterparty and you're doing d-g and you're like this is the worst job ever and so I transitioned into this role of like sponsorship which was so formative for my for the first business that I ever started because it was all about brand Partnerships and marketing and collaboration but my role at that point when you know nobody was just cold calling right so I would just have to like hit the phones and the rejection

16:07 and you know you can't help but take that person you're like I haven't made one connection today and that I found so disheartening but you know I even knew then I was like this will be worth something because for every like little knockback you got you know every kind of three days you'd get one glimmer of hope and you take one meeting and out of those 10 meetings maybe you'd start one deal and actually it was very it was just like very telling about yourself like what are you good at and now I think you know as I think about entrepreneurship and because I meet so many Founders that skill of sales and storytelling if you ain't got that like you can't do this job right you can't you can't sell to investors you can't craft a story to customers and you certainly can't get into the heart of like what makes a brand successful

16:53 unless you can sell and but it was miserable getting there Beyond miserable I I didn't realize how many different similarities we have in our background so I worked at the business Design Center for a bit and I did I did like internships then I worked there over the summer and stuff and all I had to do was sit there and call to sell the stands cuz you know they'd have all the different stands for like the bike show or the they' Be Fashion fortive yeah it really is and I remember the cold and I look back at there and I remember before then I was so I was quite introverted I sh and and then all of a sudden when you're doing like 300 cold calls a day it's gone it goes away and it's amazing how so much can be like removed from not your personality but this kind of fear

17:40 and insecurities that we often as have as a kid 100% And I feel like even now you know when I think about fear and what that's meant in my career so much because it's actually been helpful in so many ways like I always think about myself now and I'm like you know it's like if I am not a little bit scared about what I'm doing like even coming here today right it's like then I'm not growing like I'm not moving forward I'm not going in the right direction and so now I find myself looking for the fear I'm like what can I do that's going to scare me CU like I know how to make jeans I can make you fantastic knickers all day long but actually like branching out and trying to do something else is the stuff that keeps us as humans growing and I think about that all the time because I spent such a huge part of

18:27 my life being so crippled by fear and failing and you know I I was a school I dropped out of school when I was 15 or 16 I can't actually remember it must have been 15 but you know that always left me with this kind of inferiority complex that I wasn't educated enough I'd work in London around all of these like very Hoy toyy wonderful people that were fresh out of Cambridge and Oxford and had these wonderful educations and I always felt a bit inferior for that I was like I'm going to get caught they're going to find out that I don't you know have educational background I don't speak in the right way and you know I feel like for so long that held me back until I realized no no no that's my fuel that's what makes me me and if I'm not a little bit scared now I find myself just

19:13 actually looking for it because I know I need that fire in my belly like the whole time did you ever feel that anyone ever made you feel inferior because of a lack of the formal education or was it an internal I'm sure they did but it was much stronger the internal voice right it's like I don't think anybody you know what it's like when you're in London there is such a class system right and people know immediately they in in this country they think you and I sound like the queen and we know in reality we don't babe and in London any English people listening to that us absolutely know that and so there is always that you open your mouth and immediately you're judging you know exactly where I'm from and you can attribute a set of circumstances to that but I think it was much more about the voice in my own head and I I think about that an awful lot now in the way that I've set up my life

19:58 and my businesses and you know I believe very much in this idea like this rule of thirds right I think about it constantly you know when you are doing something very difficult or you are chasing a dream you're going to be happy about a third of the time you're going to feel okay about a third of the time and the other third of the time you're going to feel pretty crappy you are going to feel bad and if the ratios get out of whack and things are not actually you're too happy you're probably not pushing yourself Harden enough and if you know you're actually spending too much time you're probably not you know you're not thinking about it right but I do think that that leaning that I've had my whole life like the idea that I shouldn't be comfortable and happy all of the time

20:44 actually really helps me so much and I think about that idea of the third and the third and the third and it doesn't scare me anymore I'm like oh I'm just having one of the days that is my crappy day that's okay cuz what I'm doing doing isn't straightforward it isn't what everybody's doing and it's supposed to be difficult it's supposed to be heavy it's supposed to not be comfortable all the time and I think that that for me has been a way that I can actually get through those times that are a bit more tricky you know I love that I've never heard someone say it like that before really yeah that's such a unique way of thinking about so you said the the thirds are okay happy and then terrible and then terrible yeah and I that's so spot on and I've never heard someone break it down like that simply yeah well I am a very simple guy you know that's I

21:30 have to break it down like that for myself but you know it's really helpful because I think in any in any part of your life like there is especially now because I work with so many people there is this idea and also you know I'm a mom of four right so there is this part of me that's like I just want my kids to be all right and to be happy all the time and I'm like actually no because it's in those moments and you know this more than anyone of challenge of difficulty that's when you grow the most but we shouldn't rather than like trying to remove that from my children or take those times away from my employees or think that's not okay it's like no no no guys like that's what it's about and if you're coasting through life and doing something like really simplistic fine you might just feel all right all the time but I am so happy when the good is good that I'll take the okay and the bad

22:16 you know it's worth it because it actually all comes out even in the end you sure when when you were chasing the dreams back in the day or like trying to build it up were you dating did you care about that was that like cuz now obious beautiful yeah now you have a beautiful family you have a wonderful partner you have four kids as you said like but I wondered then like I feel like a lot of us spend a lot of our teens and our 20s thinking about love totally was that how you were too or 100% I don't think I've ever been without a boyfriend I'm a person that needs a someone and I you know I went around a little bit and I I'm I'm very I was very happy to settle down at 25 26 I don't feel like I missed out you know because we started so early I feel like you I was like out in the clubs when I was 13 14 and then I had this stint in a beadel

23:03 when I was asked to leave school so it's like I've had a lot of living before I got there and I I think that I've always been someone that has chased love like I love that feeling but as you get older you realize you know what that really means like today it's like I want to be loved back but it's not all about that rush you know it's like I've been with my husband now for 15 years is married for 11 and the things that I value have completely shifted right it's like and we've been on a journey together and I think that in life you need chapters and just as the same you know like in career and you need you know needing Transitions and to transform relationships need chapters like that

23:48 too the first five years we traveled the world we parted we got drunk we like did all the things that you do and then we went through a period of having children and that's extremely challenging on any relationship especially while the two of you are enormously ambitious and I think that what I have with my husband is this extremely unique partnership where he always understood that I was ambitious and I needed to do things and he's completely supported that and I think that the love that I have for him has grown exponentially because we've been still I've still been able to chase all of my dreams outside of the relationship and the family structure while having someone really support me do that that's yeah we won't we won't go down the atin and ntha that no it's really fun gone we

24:38 do a calling part go go tell me no I just feel like it you know it's like you you have there's a part of my life where I think there was a Need to Escape you know and I found that I was a real Club kid that's what I enjoyed I wanted to go out for me it was actually never about getting smash but it was like the music and those super late nights and the like that whole community of it like I was friends with the DJs and the MC's and you know like I was on the list and like I did that whole thing I think that was a huge formative part of my childhood like I would not or not my childhood my kind of late teens early 20s like I needed to go and get like remove myself from from what my kind of everyday life and my upbringing was and it kind of introduced me to a lot of alternative

25:25 things and people and ways of being and you know it's like you go to IA you you learn yoga for the first time I was like what's this nobody I knew in plasto was doing yoga I didn't know anyone in IA was doing yoga north of the island baby but you know it was like there's just there's things that I think that part of my life really opened me up to and I I felt like in some ways even though I saw a lot as a kid and I was experienced some pretty kind of gruesome things there was a whole part of life and sort of a a way of living and uh a a a kind of level of peace and understanding of people that was not ever explained to me and was not part of my childhood and my upbringing and I learned that much later yeah I know

26:11 thank you for sharing that it's it's uh it's so yeah it's so interesting again we we often feel like the next chapter will be better and you've just broke it down and said well no actually there's going to be every chapter and every chapter has its reason and has its story and you just said I I love that I live life that way and then when I met my partner I knew it knew it was going to work and even that's had so many chapters inside of it absolutely what would you how would your mom describe what she saw as a little girl to who she sees now I think she'd say same same I was always a pain for everyone around me you know I literally I was that kid I I actually didn't you know I didn't have many I wasn't like the popular kid you know my sisters were all massive

26:57 athletes hugely popular I was a bit more of a loner I had like you know two or three really solid friends sounds exactly like today actually but you know it was like I was that kid I was like in my own head I've always been a dreamer but you know my mom would always say she was like you're a dreamer but you're a doer and I always had those two things I don't think I've changed that much you know I I think about myself I'm like I've been absolutely same since I was seven years old this is how I've always felt this is how I've always been that's epic yeah so cool I wonder how you see that with now being a mom too like now when you're looking at your kids and I know person it's it's wild because I think like so many moms especially mothers that work in the same way that I do right you're

27:42 kind of played by this idea of what you're supposed to be and do as a mother and because I grew up with a mom that left the house every day that went to work I have maybe a different idea of what I'm supposed to be providing for those kids I think it's really important that my children see me living out my dreams and hopefully they'll do the same for themselves but you know everybody the the question always kind of boils down to like how do you do it all and I really think it's important to dispel that myth of doing it all because women have been really sold a Croc of crap like it's like you you can't have it all all the time and my life is a series of

28:28 trade-offs right that's just a fact I'm not the mom who is at the school gate I'm not there for pick up and drop off I'm not at the school Gara hopefully my kids get something else for me which is a sense of actually living out your dreams and what you're supposed to do and I think that they will see that and really appreciate having that for me but I think it's very important that we stop talking about this idea of like balance because there is no balance in my life like it it's it's rubbish you know it's like I have to go wherever the energy is that morning and my children have to fit around that nothing's changed like I said I'm still the same the same person and for children yes it changes the the kind of you know uh routine of your day but it doesn't change who you are fundamentally and I am one of those

29:15 person people that think you know my children have to fit around me and and that's just a fact you know it just is what it is yeah and I'll say as as a kid who grew up with a mom who was working that hard and like had her so so my mom trained to be a financial advisor so that she could be self-employed as we called it inste she was an entrepreneur but totally the language she could manage her own time she could manage her own time so she could be there for us so my mom would make us breakfast drop us to school pack lunching and then she'd go to work super pick us up feed us and then go back out to work and sometimes I join her I'd go out with her in the car and sit with her my son's in my office when she was with clients and then amazing I know I should have and and it's just I saw my

30:01 mom be so active my mom was never she wasn't around like just hanging around the house she wasn't available in that way again I'm not saying that's a bad thing I'm just saying my mom wasn't and as someone who grew up with a mom like that like not only do I love and respect my mom insanely insane I also just saw that it you could still feel loved without having loads of time 100% because it's about quality right I always think about that my kids need like in a 100% capacity like not half looking at my phone not half doing work not surrounded by lots of people in the house and I really try to think about them as individuals because I have a boy and a girl and then boy girl twins and I like to do things with my kids individually so that I can really understand who they are and what their

30:48 needs are not like this sort of like family pack you know because very quickly becomes that I'm like a like all of you in the car um but I think that you know again when you grow up in a big family you you have ideas and experiences of how it wasn't so great and what you'd want to do differently and so I try to apply that but I think for for most women it's really it's really important to just level like lower the expectations a little bit and be honest with ourselves about what we're capable of because it's really something that I think there's so much being thrown at women all the time about what you should do and how you should advocate for yourself and you know and and it quite frankly is just too much it

31:34 is not feasible it is not something that we can all cope with and I think that you do what you do to get through the day and we should all just like lower the expectation levels a little bit that isn't to say lower your ambition level but that's just to say don't don't feel bad about what you're doing at the end of it it's like we all do as much as we can and our kids will all be all right they don't need us to Usher them through every experience in the day and they'll be who they are they'll be who they are how did you make peace with that because I feel like I I love that perspective and I'm sure it's going to help so many people but I think people struggle with this we love being the controller we love making sure everything's right we also are so hard on ourselves as you were just saying because people were hard on us and now we think we need to

32:20 be super mom and maybe our mom did it or maybe our Auntie did it whatever I think there's a lot of people who are just like I get that but I don't know how to make peace with that 100% you know it's a great question and I always think about I'm somebody that's absolutely like fixated and fascinated by memories right I always like go back and I think about like the big important things in my life what what did I really enjoy from last year what were the moments that like arehere in my memory and when you do that it very rarely has anything to do with any level of perfection the best moments are the sporadic moments that were unplanned when you're sitting there the kid kids are a mess you're in the garden something happened that just made it so and it's never the moments that you kind of forced it's never the

33:05 things that you planned it's never the ones that you spent like all your energy on and so I think that it just becomes about like this great like you've got to weigh it up right you've got to weigh up like what is worth it and what where do you derive enjoyment from and I think anyone who looks at their life will actually find that it's in the small stuff it's in those moments that you just let it all go and so I think it's really it's such a good exercise especially for women and moms to just kind of backtrack and say in the last 12 months what were the single best moments that you had and then you will absolutely not stressed about whatever it is that is weighing you down today because it's never what you think ever it never has been for me

33:50 yeah and don't judge the moment right like we can we're so quick to be like oh I just I said the wrong thing totally and all of a sudden I said the wrong thing becomes I'm messed up today I shouldn't be here I don't belong I'm not supposed to be part of it and it's so interesting I remember like there's this brilliant story about when Oprah was going through this like crazy crazy time in her life and she turns up at Quincy Jones's house for business for dinner and she says to him oh my God like it's so terrible it's so awful have you've seen the press and d and he's like what are you talking about he hasn't seen anything right because at the end of the day no one's watching you no one's watching you like you're watching you most of your mistakes is in private and so I often think about that because it's like everybody's so bothered about their own stuff and what's going on in their

34:37 head they're not thinking about you and so sometimes you just have to release a little bit and I always try to think about like what is real and what is ego you know and so much of it is ego so especially around the mom part funnily enough right because we're all trying to do and be better than what we had and change things for our children and be this impossible wonderful person perfect mother and that's has nothing to do with your kids cuz what your kids want is just a bit of you in the most simple way they don't care about any of that stuff and so again it really is that challenge of really sitting down and speaking to your children and thinking to yourself like what actually matters and I think it's like those small moments yeah yeah that's well said and as I said as someone who received a lot of that from my mom I I felt like I never doubted

35:23 whether my mom loved me or not no whether she could come to my Rugby game or not or whether she could come and watch me at the class rehearsals or dramas or whatever we were doing if she was there or she wasn't there that wasn't how I felt loved knew she loved you absolutely yeah because it was so it's it's such a core part of my life I feel today I have like so much love to give because of how much my mom loved me 100% And it's not that she was there every 100 so yeah and and on the flip side I'm sure there's people who would think God my parents were around all the time and and and I didn't necessarily feel you didn't necessarily connect exactly didn't necessarily feel You' talked about this and I like it this whole idea like you can't have it all and everyone's always about bance and I agree with you I don't think bance exists either even in my life because I often get that oh Jay mindfulness and

36:08 meditation I'm like but that's not balance like you're actually constantly using these tools and techniques to be back at a point of equinity yeah exactly yeah to be back at a point of equinity but there isn't this idealized balance no when it comes to you know you and your partner you both have great careers you do some things there are lots of things individually like absolutely how does that like I guess my question there is what is the one thing you both need from each other that allows you to stay connected whilst having Collective Empires individual Empires and then a beautiful family as well on top of all of that I honestly think that just comes down to love because it's different things in different moments and if you really really love someone then you do what they need in that moment whether or

36:55 not it's good for you right there or what you might have discussed right that comes down to do I really love this person and want the best for them in this thing this moment this decision and more than anything you know I have such an admiration for my husband in so many different ways in how he thinks and how he approaches things and what type of father he is and you know love does lots of different things but you know usually it grows or it dwindles right it's like in Rel relationships and I think that mine is still growing but it just comes down to the fact that I love him it isn't any more complicated than that we have lots of things that we do together and I do think there is a huge thing of

37:42 this idea of chapters and having projects together you know to some extent children are that because you go through this like you know trying to get pregnant and then being pregnant and then having the baby in those early days and then those stories about those early days and then buying houses together and doing those house is up and so there is this element and we've asked we've also had the businesses that to some degree and in some businesses we've done those things together and so they have been these chapters and these projects that have been extremely I'd say pivotal in our life and you often see that that when you know couples have kids that fly the nest it's like suddenly they don't have a project anymore it's like everything's done and they're like okay we don't have anything so we have that together but I feel like in my life I'm extremely ritualistic you know that's just how I am and there's parts of our

38:28 relationship that have taken on some of those rituals in terms of you know how we think about time just us and not with the children how we think about setting up our mornings and those things become sort of bedrocks and foundations that for for what I think is like a healthy relationship yeah what what I really gained from what you're saying right now and I hope everyone's listening and taking notes too because there's so many great great insights that are like you're just sprinkling them everywhere and I'm like trying to catch it there there's I love the idea that if you value a relationship in your life your relationship is only as good as the stories you've lived together and the memories you've made and if you stop making stories and memories with people then you're constantly living in the past exactly which is so unhealthy it's

39:14 so and you've seen that in so many friendships right when you're no longer creating together you have nothing but your old memories and after a while that just dwindles so you need to consistently create and that can be big things or small things it can be building a you know shed in your back Garden but something that you live out together and you see to fruition and you create and you make and I think that that's a really important part of of relationships yeah and to keep doing that and keep getting exciting together about something absolutely yeah rather than just like how was your day and then you're talking about your own world and then their world and and all of that separation you know and that's how so many couples I think where it goes wrong you're kind of living out the most exciting parts of your life entirely separately and I feel with us you know it's like we just bought a cold plunge

39:59 and like the cold plunge has become the thing right we're literally just like how many minutes are you going to do how many minutes are you going to do oh my God are you going to put your head under like you know but it becomes this thing that you're living out together and now we'll be like cold plunge bullies to all of our friends you know but even something so small like that can be so like magical for a relationship cuz you're learning and pushing and doing something together yeah we do the same do you no you don't yeah we do but my wife so my wife she's so good in the she's so good so I can't even try to be well I married a Swedish man so I feel like I'm at a disadvantage like from the outset you were basically born in the ice like come on like of course you're better at this than I am that's amazing

40:46 and then we've been playing pickle ball as well that's our other thing oh that I have a pickle cour but I don't think I'm going to be I don't think I'm going to be on it anytime you guys can come over and you show us how it's done it's so much fun and again it's just doing taking on a new project a you know whatever it may be you I love that you were saying like you love memories and that you kind of almost have a memory bank I was going to ask you do you think there's a memory in your life that you've kind of like locked away or hidden a way that you kind of like it's almost have you seen that movie Inception and it's like he locks it away in the basement and he never goes there because it kind of it has sometimes it can be good bad it can be anything but do you have a memory you've locked away I think I probably have a lot of memories that I've locked away and um you know it's really interesting uh we

41:32 should have maybe done this podcast like in a month I'm going to go to The hofman Institute oh yeah yeah I think I have an enormous amount of that in my life and I said to you earlier you know I think if you're not I think about my life in terms of like practice right it's like I'm practicing every day like who I want to be and I think that that's a great way to teach my children because they do what they see and I never beat myself up about about my past who I've been my background where I came from because I know that I'm constantly moving and evolving and I feel like if you're not working on yourself then you're not really living do you know what I mean I feel like the purpose of my life is to explore how I can be the best version of me and I don't just mean that in

42:17 business I mean in every single facet of my life how can I be the best mom and the best wife and the best boss like all of those things that mean a lot to me but it takes work and it takes practice and I don't get it right every single day and when I think to answer your question about memories and things I've locked away it's when I've not been proud of my behavior but those are always things that I am willing to kind of hold my hands up to and and work on and I feel like I've done especially now I live here you know you come and you do the work right it's like it's just the grownup thing to do and I feel like that's been one of the reasons I've enjoyed being in La so much is because I've had this whole obviously all the success with the businesses but on this

43:04 other side I've had this huge um Awakening in terms of who I am and who I'm supposed to be and how I'm evolving as a person and so I really feel like those are things that I'm still exploring and I will be until the day I die you know I'm always in learning remote I love that and you're invited back afterwards as well so you don't have to worry about cry no no what I mean is I hope this is not going to be the last time you come but um what what's a memory that you'd love to relive or you revisit often mentally and you close your eyes and you're like yeah I'm there like I'd love to live that again because it was you know it's so crazy I think it's probably I mean feel so bad on my kids but the birth of my first child like that was so insane and amazing and

43:50 it's really funny because women like often say like everything changed then you know it's like and I and for me everything changed in that moment I remember having just had gray and Yen was holding him on like you know the side of the bed and I thought I have got to get out of this bed and go to the office and that's all I could think in my head cuz it was like all of a sudden I had the reason I was doing all of this stuff for and it had never become more clear to me than in that moment I was like okay like now Real Life Starts wow yeah yeah that's really how I felt I was like get me back like into the office like immediately oh my gosh yeah forget the baby nothing nothing about going home and like snuggling with my child I was like I have a reason to do what I'm

44:35 doing now and that can coexist with loving your kids 100% because again like you can be so many different things it's like I am a super nurturing Hands-On mom and I really enjoy motherhood I just have other stuff that I like too yeah you know why you think we struggle to have those two ideas Society has set it up that you're one or the other right you're either putting on your heels and like banging out the door and like don't see your kids and put them to bed or you're like this really sweet Mom it's like no I'm both I'm actually everything I am every woman like just like tough do you know it's like I think that actually what it is that you know there are all of these like misconceptions about what you are allowed to be and I don't think we put those same things on men because men can

45:20 be like totally in the office and killing the deal like then just be this incredible dad throwing like a football on the weekend so you're fully allowed and it's fine but for women it's not so fine and so you know so much of what I do in my work and my businesses and actually just sort of trying to be honest about me and and how I operate is to dispel a lot of those myths because I do think that we are not onedimensional and you can be so many different things and and also so many different things to different people you know I'm one person to my husband and one to my kids and if you were to come in my office I think they give you a whole different version of me I like it all over it yeah it's true though we all have to

46:06 there's all different facets to each part of ourselves and I but it's about the level of acceptance right like are you are you allowed to be there and is it accepted and that's why you know Jay it's so interesting I don't think I've ever listened to a podcast where a man has been asked about impostor syndrome not once it is a question that is the Special Reserve for women as is the question of balance no one says Hey yens how you balancing it all the brands and the business and the kids no one says that to my husband I'm glad they didn't ask both those questions I just out they say it to me every day every single day what is it like to be a black woman in business I'm like what kind of question is that you know but there are things that for women just like we're still not

46:51 able to get over this idea that we have in our heads that we can't be many things to many people and I just don't believe in that at all yeah no I'm with you I'm with you and and and I really feel that naturally all those questions are coming because that's what people are scared about and insecure about and worried about and it's as you said it's come because it's been created in society I read a there was this research paper a long time ago and I won't get it absolutely accurate but the point was that when men and women look at a job application if men can do some of it they'll apply and even if if women can't do one part of it they won't apply I see that every single day in my own office right a guy will work for me for six months and come and ask me for a pay rise and then I will say to a woman I don't think you've had a pay rise for like a year and a half like do you know

47:38 what I mean it's like or somebody that will come in and say like I speak absolutely fluent Spanish and a woman who's pretty 90% there won't even mention it on so there are those obvious things and that's just about you know so many times for women there is this natural nurturers we naturally play down our skills and I think that that is just something that Society has taught us and so I think about it all the time I'm quite the opposite you know I I'll go in and pretend I can do anything in in in a pitch meeting or it's like I'll say what needs to say to get it done do you know what I mean um but I do think that for so many women there is this like sort of magical golden moment in your life where

48:23 you're free of a lot of constraints you know maybe you don't have a mortgage you don't have children yet you're not in a really serious relationship where there is this moment to be incredibly selfish and for most women when all of the responsibilities pile on they stop doing that and I think they actually just as women we would do better to be selfish for longer in our lives and that's the type of thing and and so many people will be like oh I just don't like the word like can't you find another way to dress it up absolutely no because I mean what I say you do have to think about yourself because nobody else is thinking about that for you everybody else is too busy thinking about this themselves and so this idea of being selfish shouldn't feel like such a foreign thing for women or a dirty word

49:09 for women it's like you have to be there is no other way to get ahead and to do what you want to do you have to put your needs and your uh wants and your ambition first because no one is going to do that for you yeah and it's hard isn't it when like you were saying you've tried to be the boss that you didn't have I can identify with that I try and be the boss bosses that I didn't have and I think it is really wonderful when you see a great relationship building with people you work with where they recognize you're being the boss that they never had as well and you are too and you're also realizing they're being a great person of your team that that hasn't been like other people have been how have you learned to like sense that and know that when you're like okay well me and this person can go and build together and create together or this is

49:55 the right person to recruit onto my team or like what are the things that you're looking at and trying to decipher because I think right now we do live in a world where also people are think about a job as a paycheck and they don't care whereas you're very passionate you're very driven you always have been since the Delhi so it's like if you've cared that much about the Del and the sandwich obviously you care so much about what you do today totally how how do you do that well you know I think I'm really realistic because you will have those people in your business that come to work with you literally because you know a good American we are bpor registered right and people feel like they want to work in a company that cares about the environment that cares about what they're putting out and you'll get people that care about the mission and the vision and the values but I don't expect that everybody will care I know that there are some people that just come and they just want their

50:42 paycheck and so for me I try to separate who I am and what I might need from what somebody else might need my expectation is that not everybody's bouncing in there trying to kill it for me right I'm pretty sure that a lot of these people coming in and they do their job and they're working on their side hustle halfway through the day and that's okay you know it's like that's not for everyone and I think that as I've got older I've learned not to put my uh my type of ambition on you know or not to try to reflect that onto everybody that's around me and those people will of course they'll rise to the top they'll make themselves known but it isn't for everybody you know it's just it's just a fact and and also you need that when you're building a team everybody was an ambitious little

51:27 monster it would be a disaster you know you need people that happy to come in grind do their job and leave at 5:00 that's just facts yeah absolutely how did you make that leap like you just said earlier I'm just connecting the dots you were like I was never around anyone who was an entrepreneur who had their own business everyone worked a job yeah how did you accident J shed accident it was a total accident because you know I never set out to start my own company I was frustrated that I wasn't being paid enough where I was and then was like all right well if you don't like that then you're going to have to do something else but I was also acutely aware that no one was going to come and hand me a company on a plate like here's this company to run you you person with no experience and you know you kind of jumped up 24 year old and so

52:14 I was very like acutely aware that I'd have to do it myself um and that's where it came from like you know I'd love to say that I had this like great idea and this great ambition but it came out of like frustration and not being paid enough and feeling like I wasn't getting the value back that I put in that's the honest answer yeah no and I think that's very relatable I think most people are in positions like that but that doesn't lead to the courage yes to go to do it because we feel like well what if it doesn't work what will my friends say what you know and all those kind of things that come up because we're scared even for me like I remember I had a steady job and I was this is after I'd left the monastery I'd come back home I'd finally found a steady job I was dating my it's such a good sentence after I left the monastery isn't it good

53:01 you should TR wind that in any feel like so after I left the monastery I was just trying to give context Emma this is this is the British B Emma's like fly I love it I love it I don't have a sentence like that and I want one I might just take it bang it out you've got it be you've got you've got plenty but no the so I was in the steady job and it was like I was dating my now wife and I remember going this is not working for me like and I wasn't killing it and I wasn't doing badly I was I was I was doing all right but I just knew it wasn't my place yes and I remember I probably spent two years there feeling that way totally toally you kind of just you're thinking about

53:46 it reflecting on it you're like what do I do what if it doesn't work and so walk us through that a little bit because I think a lot of our listeners may actually be feeling that way a lot of our audience is actually listening going you know what I'd love to I'd love forget doing what Emma's done now I'd just love to get out where I am now because you know what I mean I think the truth of it was that I've never been that scared of failing yeah right and for me at that time in my life I was making a a small amount of money it's fair to say that I didn't have any you know no one was relying on me to to pay Ren or I had a tiny tiny little I lived in like a highrise in East London with no front door and a gate on the door no oven just a microwave no fridge I put my milk on the balcony just to paint the picture of like where I was at that time

54:32 in my life it was rough and honestly what I thought is that how could I lose like at this point I could always go and get another similarly not inspiring job and so that idea of like fear of not failing was really key but I also was really I've always been very honest with myself like you know everybody has a voice in their head and some people have a voice that like chats them up you know it's like I do but I also have that voice that's like Emma like know what you don't know like don't be too silly in this situation so I think that I really in that instance where I decided like let's get out of this job and try to go and do something else it was enough understanding of it wasn't that good where I was if it really didn't

55:18 work out I could always get back into something like that but also that that thing that just says what happens if you don't do it you know like for me I was miserable and I really saw a better life for myself and I was like I will just regret this when I'm 35 for example and so it was really about just going like you know no one's going to take a chance on me I have to take the chance on me and then maybe someone else will be inspired to take a chance on me which is ultimately what happened I left that role I got employed in another job and then when I got into that job my now husband business partner at the at that time they kind of saw me and they were like well this girl's like kind of good she has something and they ended up

56:03 being My First Investors when I was 25 years old that's incredible isn't it which was which was crazy which to me even at the time it felt crazy and I remember questioning I was like why would anyone invest in me and then I thought no of course they'll invest in me who else you're going to invest in like you might as well I'm as good as anybody else out there and that's when that thing started ticking in so I think sometimes you've just got to not be too afraid to lose and you know the truth is Jay I have lost and failed more times than I've succeeded right we don't talk about that that's not in the articles I don't post that on Instagram but that's just the fact like I've made so many mistakes before I got here and had three very successful companies I had a dog of an agency that I opened here in a very successful business that was thriving in

56:49 London and thriving in New York and I opened an office in LA and I embarrassed myself I completely let the you know I let the company down I let the board down I let the staff down I underinvested I did all of the classic mistakes and you know at the time I felt like it was the end of like my company and my career but it wasn't it was just a failure I've had lots of things like that happen lots of you know public embarrassments and things that didn't work out and it's you know sounds like such an obvious thing but it's like well how do you recover from that and so for me it's like always been this thing of like all right well I'll dust myself off I've survived worse you know and I think a lot of that comes from my upbringing you know it's like you see a lot of stuff go down and you can get through things yeah I think I'm pretty good at

57:35 getting through things and this is that Quincy moment where I'm like I didn't even know like you know it's like see there you go yeah it's amazing it's just like you just you know you it's so fascinating how quickly we are it's it's so fascinating how quickly we point out people's faults and then forget about them 100% And and it's so that happens so far because it's not as fun a story right people want at the end of day I believe in you know the goodness of humans we default want good good stuff for each other and we want to see each other win and people are very happy to celebrate alongside you you're much more concerned about your failures you're much more concerned about your fears than anybody else out there and I think every now again I kind of just have to

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