0:00 So Chuck, I can honestly give you an answer of where inflammation comes from in two words. [music] Okay? It is not a mystery anymore. This is what every single one [music] of us needs to hear. All right, everybody. Quick question. If inflammation is causing joint pain, brain fog, fatigue, autoimmune diseases, why don't most doctors know where it actually comes from? Because today on the Gut Insiders, Dr. B is going to argue that inflammation isn't bad luck. It isn't just getting older. Heck, it isn't even inevitable. It has a starting point. It starts somewhere very specific. And once you see it, you can't unsee it. So, if you are new here, this is the show where we break down gut health, microbiome science, and what
0:45 your body is really trying to tell you without the nonsense. I'm your host with the patient perspective, Chuck Carroll. And with me is gastroenterenterologist, New York Times bestselling author, and the man who somehow made farts educational, Dr. Will Bullowitz. What's up man? >> I still can't believe that episode worked as well as it did. And I honestly can't believe that on the very first episode of The Gut Insiders, I dropped the word ars. >> You did multiple times if I'm not mistaken. But [laughter] listen, here's here's the the God's honest truth about it. If you can explain farts, man, you can explain anything. And today we're going even bigger than gas. We're talking about inflammation. Everybody's talking about it. It's kind of become a buzzword, but few people understand what it actually is. Yeah. No. And this it's
1:33 an important word, right? I mean, we're we're going from a small problem to the biggest of big problems. And you know, inflammation has been this vague scary word. But when you understand where it actually comes from, you realize it's not mysterious at all. Oh, we have the ability to demystify it, Chuck. >> And that's exactly what we're going to be doing today. We're pulling back that curtain, finding out what inflammation really is, why it sticks around, and what your gut has to do with it. So, let me ask you this just hypothetical question. If I was to put on my old reporter hat and do a man on the street style interview with somebody and I asked, "Where does inflammation actually come from?" What do you think most people would say? Honestly, they'd probably say aging,
2:21 stress, genetics that you were born with, bad luck. Honestly, and if you asked me that question 10 years ago, I would have given you a long meandering answer that didn't really explain anything even though I was fully trained as a medical doctor. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. even even you like I think inflammation in the gut like really have been going hand inand for a lot longer like it's it's kind of blowing my mind right now that this is something you didn't even understand. Yeah. I mean Chuck I went to medical school. I went through eight years of training after medical school. I was already in practice treating people with chronic inflammatory health conditions. But if you came up to me and you said to me, "Hey Dr. B, where does inflammation
3:06 come from?" would have probably said something like, "Look, as we get older, our bodies become more inflamed." And like, clearly it's worse if you sit on the couch and eat bon bonss all day. [laughter] >> That's uh that's not really satisfying, man. >> No, but that's, you know, that's kind of like it's crazy to imagine that that was my understanding of inflammation being a fully trained medical doctor actually treating people with these chronic inflammatory health conditions. And you know, I mean, honestly, it's vague. Um, it doesn't give people a clear target. It it doesn't tell you how to address it. But here's the good news, Chuck. Like, a lot has changed. And this is this is like something I see as tremendously important
3:51 over this over the last six years. We're talking after after I finished writing Fiberfueled. I have learned so much and I've been deep diving into the science and I've realized something. No, here it comes. Here it comes. Wait for it. >> Okay, so Chuck, I can honestly give you an answer of where inflammation comes from in two words. >> Okay, >> the gut. >> I mean, that's that's a pretty big claim, dude. The gut. Two words sums it up. >> Two words sums it up. And we we in this episode are going to fully unpack this. It is not a mystery anymore. This is the answer. This is what every single one of us needs to hear. >> The I mean, obviously, you're you're the
4:38 gut guy and and I think that we we do need to unpack this. I mean, let me throw you kind of a little bit of a curveball question here. Like, is it troublesome now that you've begun to understand inflammation and its causes um that people are throwing this around and and they don't fully understand what it means? I mean, look, if you go into the internet, you're going to find conversations that aren't necessarily evidence informed. That's just reality, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um, so ultimately, we have a responsibility to identify who are our trusted experts, right? Where are our sources of truth? And I'm here today having deep dived into this topic for several years. I'm excited. I'm eager to basically share
5:24 what I've learned where inflammation is not this nebulous archaic concept that we have no clue what's going on there. There is an answer to what's going on. Again, I said it the gut. I'm not taking it back. And the beauty of it, Chuck, is there's an opportunity there in the gut. This is where optimism lives. This is where hope lives. This is where we can change things. This is where how you feel today doesn't mean this is how you feel tomorrow. >> That's what I'm talking about. >> Yeah, man. I I love that. And so let's let's dive in, man. Let's start unpacking this. Um, true or false, when when we talk about inflammation, there's another term that comes up a lot, and that's a term called leaky gut. Those two things kind of go hand inand as well. So, let's let's slow this down. Let's start to unpack it. So, when
6:09 people hear the phrase leaky gut, I mean, half of folks like start to roll their eyes. I think part of that may be because they don't understand what that means either. >> Yeah. I mean, the term does get overused. There's things that are said on the internet around these terms leaky gut that are not true. But I think that we should take a step back. Let's reset and let's talk about what this actually means in plain English. Your gut lining it is a selective barrier. Okay. So basically it's this single layer of cells and its job is to let the good stuff through. So like nutrients like vitamins and amino acids. But at the same time it basically needs to like keep the bad stuff out. So this would be pathogens, bacterial toxins. We can't let that across the gut barrier because
6:54 then it could get into the bloodstream and that can create serious issues. So the the gut lining has a really important job. >> It it does like you're kind of painting the picture. It makes me think of like TSA, right? Airport security. You're going through, they're looking at everything. They're going to kick some stuff out. They're going to kick certain people out of line. They're going to take stuff out of the bag and then the rest of the good stuff gets to go through. >> Yeah. So when the gut barrier is working well, the immune cells, they stay calm. And you know, Chuck, it's kind of like having a TSA, right, and having airport security that's on the other side, right? That airport security, they're there. They're doing their job, and they don't have to do anything as long as the as long as the uh the security checkpoint does its job and doesn't let anything bad through. The problem is that
7:41 the gut barrier can lose its capacity to do its job. And this can happen when it's damaged or it's been under put under stress. And so, and when that happens, like this would be like an overwhelmed TSA. Bacterial fragments can slip through things that weren't supposed to get across, they get across, right? And this is what we would call le we got but I might call it increased intestinal permeability. And what I'm talking about getting across right now when I say bacterial fragments is something very specific called lipopolysaccharide or LPS. And this is important Chuck because LPS and the human immune system have been
8:26 locked in an evolutionary arms race for hundreds of millions of years. And just to contextualize that, we as humans, we have only existed for about 3 million years. What I'm saying is that basically there are immune cells and there is LPS and they have been they've been fighting each other for much longer than we have existed as humans. Wow. Our immune system is hardwired even before birth to recognize our immune system is taught to recognize LPS as a threat. that is a bad thing and it's going to respond aggressively when it sees it outside the gut. And and we know just how powerful this signal is in humans because like for example, Chuck, they did a controlled clinical study where researchers injected like they
9:12 actually injected this LPS in a purified form into the bloodstream of healthy volunteers. And here's what happened within hours. their inflammatory markers like interlucan 6 and tumor necrosis factor alpha rose sharply right so you're basically triggering inflammation but here's the part that like really caught my attention in this study is that inflammation so basically you inject the LPS inflammation skyrockets and then within hours their metabolism starts to collapse insulin sensitivity drops by about 25 I'm sorry 35%. That's not diabetes yet.
9:59 But basically, this is how you get to diabetes. You've jacked up the metabolism. The takeaway is that by simply exposing the bloodstream to this LPS, even briefly, that's enough to create significant inflammation and metabolic disruption even in people who are totally healthy. But in everyday life, LPS, it doesn't come from injections. It comes from the gut. Because LPS is basically this armor that covers bacteria like EC coli, salmonella, shikella. And when that exposure from the gut is small but constant, the immune system never gets to stand down. >> And that then all of that creates inflammation. >> Exactly. And so here's the picture that I want you and everyone else who's with us to hold on to. Your gut is about 20
10:47 to 25 feet long. It is lined by a single layer of cells. The surface area of what we're talking about lining your intestines is the size of a small compartment. And every single cell matters. When the barrier holds and does its job, the immune system stays quiet. But when it falters, LPS can cross. And every single crossing along that entire surface area on a microscopic cellular level, every single crossing triggers an immune response against this ancient enemy. So when you repeat this time and time and time, that's what we call chronic low-grade inflammation. >> All right. So honestly, here's where I
11:32 get confused. I mean, aside from all of the big medical words that some [laughter] of them sounded downright sinister to me, uh here's where where I do get confused. Um, inflammation clearly, as you're pointing out, starts in the gut. But then why wouldn't it just stop once people start to eat better? >> You've just exposed the trap. You just exposed the trap. Uhoh. This is what we would call the inflammation trap. Because it's important to understand inflammation doesn't just come from gut damage. It actually creates gut damage. Is that kind of like a snowball effect where it just kind of feeds itself? It builds on itself. >> Yeah, exactly. And this this isn't just a theory. We actually see this in human
12:19 research. So, for example, Chuck, a study that was published in Nature Microbiology, this is a highly prestigious journal, showed that when the gut is inflamed, the microbiome itself changes in a really important way. >> So, what what kind of a change are we talking about here? >> All right. So like in this inflamed environment you have beneficial microbes. These are the fiberloving ones. They are the ones that produce butyrate which are the short- chain fatty acids that are powerfully anti-inflammatory. And by the way butyrate is what repairs and restores the gut barrier. But in the inflamed environment those beneficial bacteria they actually stop doing the job that we rely on them for. They are forced to shift into survival
13:05 mode. Basically, they either fall off or they go dormant and they stop functioning. They produce less butyrate, they are unable to support the gut microbiome which is trying to heal. Like basically what's happening with these microbes when they're in the context of inflammation, it's a little bit like what happens to us when we're sick. So, like I don't know about you, Chuck, but when I get sick, I'm a shell of the man that I am when I'm feeling strong and healthy. >> I think pretty much everyone is, despite what it, you know, whatever they try to tell you. But, um, it sounds like what you're saying is those microbes, those are the ones that really help to keep that barrier intact. >> Exactly. So, you need healthy microbes
13:51 doing their job to support and nurture the gut barrier to protect the immune system. But the problem is that you create inflammation with the immune system which ultimately affects the microbes which leads to breakdown of the gut barrier which creates more inflammation. That is the inflammation trap [snorts] >> and and and that just it sounds brutal to me man. It's just more inflammation piled on more inflammation piled on more inflammation does not sound like a lot of fun to me. It is brutal. And it also explains things that I see from people all the time, which is that they might say, "I'm eating healthy, but I still feel I still feel like I'm inflamed." So like the problem is they're trying to rebuild a house while the foundation is still cracking. You have to calm
14:36 inflammation and restore the microbiome at the same time. Otherwise, this loop keeps running. >> All right, man. Well, let's let's talk about this cuz I think that there's probably a lot of people watching this right now who like literally have their minds blown. Like I mean, I have been doing all the right things. I've been eating this really ultra clean diet and I still feel like garbage every single day. So, let's let's get practical about this, right? Give us a list. Like, how would somebody be able to identify whether or not they're actually stuck in this loop? >> Real quick before we jump into that, Chuck, I want to hear from you. like how how are you responding to what you're hearing right now? Have you experienced anything like this? >> Uh, very much so. I mean, I've been open with with my struggles and and I have a complex case, which, you know, honestly
15:23 is why I'm so excited to do this show with you beyond the fact that you and I, you know, were just friends and and this is fun, but it's like it's helping me understand what's been going on with me for the past three years. And to be perfectly honest with you, like I have felt like a fraud because of the success of the other show and my notoriety in the plant-based space. And yet having struggled silently for two out of those three years with just massive amounts of inflammation and digestive issues and brain fog and fatigue and and and and even joint pain. And you know, it's it's just been sickening to be perfectly honest with you. >> Yeah. Gosh, I'm sorry. I mean, obviously
16:09 as a friend, you know, I you and I have had many conversations about this and it hates like it it pains me to see my friends struggling with the things that you've been dealing with. Um yet at the same time I'm very proud of you because not only are you perseverant in your approach um and resilient, but you also have the audacity and the gall to turn to the public and basically say, "Hey, look, I don't know if I can help you with my story, but if I can, I will. So here it is." and and brother I mean that that has been the most refreshing part of this is like if you believe in a purpose-driven life. I feel like I was given this illness because of my
16:55 platform and I've heard from hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people honest to God who have similar crazy symptoms that doctors are struggling to diagnose and it seems like no matter what it is they try they just can't seem to hammer it down. And and let me put this into perspective for you. like I am seeing the top doctors in the country. I'm being treated right now at the Mayo Clinic and it has still taken a very long time to finally get to the point where we think that we have a good idea of what's going on and have a clear path forward for treatment and and and these cases can be ultra complex and so hopefully in a future episode we can really start to unpack everything that's going on. I don't want to make this episode about me, but when it comes to the gut and inflammation, as a
17:41 gastroenterenterologist, you you guys have to know how complicated a lot of these cases actually can be. >> Yeah. Um, they are. and solutions aren't necessarily simple and straightforward. But part of what we have the ability to do is to talk through these types of stories here on the Gut Insiders podcast because there's going to be people who are listening. They're going to take away a moment and it may not be something that you and I even realize how important it is for them. >> Yeah. >> And it's this aha moment and they're like, "There it is. That's the thing I was searching for. That's what I needed to hear and it changes everything. So, we're going to continue to create aha
18:26 moments together, my brother. And um I do appreciate you um being willing to come forward and share generously and openly on a topic that I have to imagine it's not so easy to discuss. So, anyway, all right. >> Let's Yeah, let's let's let's not get all, you know, let's not start the waterworks and stuff, but I appreciate everything that you've done for me, but let's let's give back to the people. That's what we are men of the people, brother. So, let's let's talk about this inflammation trap and and how somebody might >> like try to discern whether or not they're stuck in this loop. >> Yeah. So, I'm going to I'm Chuck, I'm going to give you five what I see as five signs of the inflammation trap. Okay? Now, you're not necessarily going to say yes to all five, but you don't
19:13 need to. You're not going to have all five at the same time. These are not diagnosis. These are clues that your body is stuck in this loop, this this vicious cycle, right, that we're calling the inflammation trap. >> And as I go through these five, Chuck, I would love to hear from you your thoughts. But at the same time, right now, I'm turning to our listeners who are at home engaging with us. And I just want you, the listener, to consider in your own life, does this fit you? You can shout at us. You can shout at us. You can also DM us right through social media or you can drop comments down below and tell us how these specific things fit in your own life. Okay. So, but Chuck, because I have you here, I'm going to direct this towards you. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. Cool. So, the first that I
20:00 would say is you eat clean, but you still feel like trash. You still feel fatigued. You still feel inflamed. Have you experienced that, Chuck? To this day, my friend, to this very day, I can eat something, you know, as healthy as a spinach and arugula salad with tomatoes, maybe a little bit of sliced avocado, super clean, a little balsamic on there, like really low fat, high, you know, nutrient density, and I will walk away feeling like garbage, my friend. >> Yes. So, we have in a way I'm everything that you just described as your diet is a beautiful, wonderful diet. Unfortunately, the problem is that is not sufficient for us to break this loop, break the inflammation trap, right? So, you should absolutely do what you are describing.
20:45 Maybe in some cases modifications become required. I'm not trying to say that like it's always just pure plans and that's it. >> Yeah. >> But the the point from my perspective though is that clearly there's more. Clearly there is something more that needs to be fulfilled in order to guess get you where we want you to go. >> Yep. >> All right. The second thing I would say is that symptoms can jump throughout the body, right? So we think of the body as like as like systems, right? Where it's like I'm a gastronologist. I deal with the gut. A cardiologist deals with the heart. A a rheatologist deals with joints, right? It could be your gut one month, it could be your joints the next. Have you have you felt symptoms jumping around? >> Yeah, man. And it was really early on in my experience when I was actually going to an allergist like saying, "Well, maybe this is an allergy thing." And he's like, "Oh, man. you've got a case
21:30 of the all overs. So, it's like one day, you know, I'll have like really intense heartburn. The next day, it's like wicked bad bloating. The day after that, it's like this crazy like, and this is the weirdest one, like almost a neurologic thing where it's it's like brain fog, but on steroids, where it's brain fog, but also the feeling of of almost being like drunk or stoned. It's like you've had too much cold medicine. It's like you're there, but you're not there. And very rarely do the symptoms overlap. It's like you have one or the other. It's the craziest damn thing. >> Yeah. So, you know, again, you go to five different doctors for those symptoms that you just described. They would give you five different diagnoses and provide five different medications, but what would be missing is that
22:18 they're all tied back to the same story, right? Which is inflammation. >> And so, these are different manifestations of inflammation. They're affecting different systems. You have one body. Your body doesn't care that there's different doctors for different specialties. The body doesn't care, right? It's one body. And that one body, by the way, is responsive also to your environment. So, you are very integrated into your environment, which actually which actually is sort of like the point for my number three, which is that like things in things that are happening beyond just what's on the plate, like stress in our life, right? Or disrupted sleep. you're not sleeping well. Make things worse. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's for dag
23:03 on sure. And it's interesting that right before I got sick um that was potentially the most stressful period of my entire life. So much going on um behind the scenes. Number one, you know, the career was really flourishing and and you know, there's a lot of stress that comes from trying to be at the top of your game. Number two, like with my family, there was just so much going on. Um, you know, that we don't have to unpack here, but obviously stressed out didn't do me any good. But when we're stressed, at least for me, my reaction was not to sleep more and shut down. My reaction was actually to sleep less and to keep pushing and and try to get through. And that really only made everything worse. and and certainly there's a lot of stress with being
23:49 chronically ill, you know, and so I I know that if I'm in a stressful situation now for whatever reason or I don't get a good night's sleep, then I'm going to feel even worse the next day. Like those are just cold hard facts, man. Yeah. So really what we're kind of talking about here is the concept of resilience. So when your body is in a position of strength, then there's a resilience that naturally exists where you could you could deal with stress and you're okay. >> You can deal with a bad night's rest and you're okay, right? And that's not enough to totally upend you. But the problem is that when the system is already broken down and weak and failing, it's going to fail harder. It's going to fail harder. It has there's nothing left to give. It's already broken down. Right? So, and that's and
24:37 that that is the issue that we run into where these kinds of perturbations, stress, poor sleep, whatever it might be, are enough to kind of tip tip you over the edge. By the way, this is uh quite heavily covered in chapter six of my new book about circadian rhythm and chapter eight, which is about the brain gut connection. So, just shouting that out because like we [clears throat] could we're not going to do that today, but we could double click and deep dive those topics even further by the way because there is an explanation for why that's happening. I think we should. I think we should. >> Yeah. Well, okay. So, if I'm going to give you one word and then we can we can pick this up at another conversation later on, Chuck. >> Yeah. >> The one the one word is cortisol. So, cortisol is what explains the poor sleep because you're stressed out. Cortisol is what explains how stress ultimately
25:22 impacts your body in a negative way. >> Yeah. And and my doctors have said that like I'm basically chronically stuck in fight orflight mode. And that's why, you know, it's it's weird, man. I don't want to do the deep dive now, but there's so much I want to say, but I'll just leave it at this. They explained to me that even if I sleep for eight hours, it's not quality sleep. And because of that, your body's still not able to rejuvenate, recover, you know, um, and and rebound just because you're stressed out even when you're asleep. >> Fight or flight mode is is synonymous with the term sympathetic activation or sympathetic overdrive. That is your autonomic nervous system, right? Your body is basically switched on and unable to go into rest mode,
26:09 digest mode, recovery mode. That's the problem is when you're living in that space, there's consequences. So, and that's basically what's happening there, Chuck. We we'll deep dive that in another episode, but >> Yes, sir. >> All right. Here's another one for you. Um, have you ever had it where you react you like you have foods that you used to be able to tolerate and all of a sudden you find that you can't anymore? >> Oh, I'll give you one. Kimchi. I love kimchi, but I just I cannot do it. Even the smallest amount now bloat me to the beeers bro. >> Well, to the beeers doesn't sound very good, but I >> I mean like the beeers is like I got a good like six, seven month pregnant belly happening, man. Like it's it's crazy. a place in Stranger Things where people don't want to go. You don't want
26:54 to find yourself in the beevers, [laughter] >> the egg, the be upside down. You know, >> that's that's a that's a clean way of saying something really dirty almost. It sounds like, you know, >> I mean, I bro Yeah. If I ever write my kids >> Yeah. If if I ever write a book, it's it's not going to be filled with words like beebras. I'm putting it all out there. It's gonna be like >> it's gonna be shorter about four letters. >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. >> Right. But you know what? I think I'm gonna teach my kids that Uncle Chuck says the beeers as a as is a good word. And I think it's okay. That's a good clean word to use that says the same thing. >> Yeah. All right. Sorry. >> Okay. Cool. Um but but the the point here though is that like you used to tolerate these foods. Now you're struggling with these foods. Your gut
27:39 microbiome has changed, right? The inflammation trap where basically the inflammation has now disrupted your microbiome. Because your microbiome is disrupted. Disrupted. It's struggling to do its job, which is to help you to process and digest your food. >> Yeah, >> that's what's happening there. >> All right. Uh, >> last but not least, uh, have you ever experienced this where like you improve ever so briefly and then you fall right back in and like relapse? >> Uh, that's a loop in itself right there, man. Um, I'll actually every so often have a string of like two or three days where I almost feel normal again and then it's just like bam, you get hit by a truck again. You get run over and and the cycle just repeats itself. >> Okay, so this gets back to this concept of resilience that I was discussing a
28:25 moment ago, which is that like basically you improve briefly. Basically, what this means is that you're teetering on the edge. It's like a tipping point and you just ever so slightly tipped it in your favor and started to recover and then boom, the thing knocks you over again and you're right back to where you started. Right? So there's a there's a vulnerability that's there. So ultimately we have to disrupt the cycle and we have to not only not only repair, we have to repair to the point that it is strong, it is resilient, and it's not going to break down so quickly and easily. So but you know the message here to you. So Chuck, you're five for five on these. That's not something that I want to hear. I hate that. >> I mean, I wish it was baseball and I was headed for the Hall of Fame, but yeah. [laughter]
29:11 >> So, well, we're gonna work on making this Z over five, right? Which won't get you in the Hall of Fame of baseball, but it will get you a Hall of Fame in terms of your health. >> Um, >> we're going to work on that. And but also for the listeners at home, like, you know, we're not like we're not we're not trying to be five for five here. We want you to be as few as possible, but for many of you, I I would imagine that what you're hearing is helping you to understand your body and what and things that have happened. And so, and that's what really matters. That's what the show is really all about. So, and and it doesn't it doesn't mean that you're broken, right? It just means that we haven't fully reset your system. >> All right. Well, big big question for you then, man. Um, how do we begin to break this loop? Basically, what you
29:57 want to do is if we could just repair the gut barrier, right? If you could repair the gut barrier, then what's going to happen is you're going to calm the immune system and simultaneously protect your microbiome, right? You need to disentangle there. Like basically the inflammation is creating a microbiome problem and then the microbiome problem is creating inflammation, >> right? And if we could just repair the barrier that's in between them, they will manage themselves. They will calm down and they will be okay. >> So some of the things that I um think are important are like number one, we want to eat the proper food, right? What
30:42 does that look like? Forget dietary labels. Do they serve a purpose? Sure. vegan vegetarian Mediterranean pescatarian, plant-based. Do they serve a purpose? Sure. Do they create more stress than they're worth? Yes. Do they actually define a health healthy diet? No. Here's what I say. Like truly, because you can you can you can take any dietary concept and make it healthy or make it trash. Chuck, what matters is quality. M >> if you eat quality, you're going to be in a good spot. I [snorts] have identified what I call the four workh horses of plantpowered nutrition that if you get these four things, you have
31:29 everything that you need for an anti-inflammatory diet, >> right? It doesn't matter what you call it. >> Lay it out, man. What are they? >> Number one, what's my favorite nutrient, Chuck? Uh coffee. [laughter] it. Darn it. Darn it. You got me. You got me. [laughter] >> I know for a fact. Like, in all seriousness, man, you are huge. >> This is the problem when you do a podcast with with with a very very close friend is they know you so well that they can pull your pants down on the [laughter] YouTube. All right. That ain't right, Chuck. I'm a nice guy to you, Chuck. >> I love you, too, brother. But, all right, brother. I mean, look, I'm sitting here talking having a cup of coffee with you, but it is fiber. Like, no. >> And your coffee, your coffee has fiber
32:15 in it. That's an interesting thing. So, >> it's part of what makes it healthy, right? So, fiber is number one. The second thing you'll find in that cup of coffee are polyphenols. >> So, polyphenols are responsible for the colors of our food. And believe it or not, coffee is the number one source of polyphenols in the American diet, which is crazy. It shouldn't be. >> It shouldn't be, but it is. And so I mean I love a good cup of coffee but like we should be eating more colorful food. That's the bottom line. >> Right. >> Right. So um the third thing is healthy fat. And by healthy fat I'm referring to the fat that exists in avocados and nuts and seeds and extra virgin olive oil. And
33:01 those are also the the longchain omega-3 fats that exist in fish and shellfish. And like you know ultimately we may have our ethical leanings and that's important but we also need to be clear on what are healthy choices. Healthy choices include healthy fats. And so um so those are some of the options that we have right there. >> Right. And you just got to choose what works best for you. >> Healthy fats should be another episode unto its own uh in the future because there's certainly a lot to unpack there too. >> Yeah. We can dig into that. I mean like from from my perspective I'm I I don't believe that it's fair to vilify any macronutrient. So whether we're talking about protein, carbohydrates, or fats, there are good ones, there are bad ones. If you focus on good ones, you have
33:47 improved the quality of your diet and you will be healthy as a result of that. Period. End of story. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. Number four, the one that's missing, even in people who have a healthy diet and they think their diet is amazing and they're very proud of themselves, but you're missing this one. Let's be honest, it's fermented food. >> So, and that's not just kimchi. There's lots of choices, right? So, and that that includes, of course, sauerkraut, but also pickles and kombucha and water cafir. And if you consume dairy products, it would include yogurt, like Greek yogurt, or it would include kefir. Um, and it also includes tempeh and miso and sourdough bread. Like, these are all wonderful things. We need more of that. I'm a big fan of uh you know, at least for me, the non-dairy stuff, like big
34:33 fan. Uh I I often forget that pickles would fall into that category. I still enjoy a good dill pickle, man. Like nothing beats that on a hot day. >> Yeah. So, you just got to make sure that it's like actually a fermented pickle because I'm talking about fermented. And so and and the key here is that if the number one or two ingredient is vinegar, that's that's a that's pickled in the sense that you take cucumbers, you pour vinegar over the top, you got your pickle. That's the end of the story. >> All right. >> Whereas, right, kind of like pickled onions, like if you pour I mean, they're delicious, don't get me wrong. >> I'm not an onion guy at all. That's a debate for another day, but if you say so. >> That's kind of That one kind of caught me off guard there, Chuck. >> What? The fact that I don't like onions. I've been on the record about that for a
35:19 very long. >> Any any onions? Any onions? >> Doesn't matter. Vidalia red. >> Raw. Raw. Cooked. >> You don't like when they get sweet. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Delicious. >> I don't understand people's obsession with the damn onion. I don't understand it. Like, and people put that on everything. It's like hot sauce. Like, no. No. Like, your salad does not need an onion. Well, I suppose I suppose the one thing is that we did discuss during the fart episode that audience are a source of sulfur compounds that make your farts [laughter] that make your farts smell. So, what basically what you have just announced to the international public is that your your farts must smell like patunia. >> They do. They do indeed.
36:04 >> Ah, >> and and no comments from over here. I love onions, though. [laughter] >> All right, man. Let's get back to it. So those those are the things. >> All right. So those are the four. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> All right. So but like um uh it's important also for people to hear that nutrition isn't the only thing that matters for our health. >> So like I I think that there are opportunities for healing that exist in many places. So one of them is reestablishing rhythm within our life, right? And like if I could use one word, the word would be consistency. Create patterns. So have a morning routine, have an evening routine, try to be consistent with your meal times. If you do that, you are ahead of 99% of
36:49 people because 99% of us, close to 100%. Life is archaic. We're not thinking about these things, but our body wants to know what we're going to do and when we're going to do it. And if you are consistent with the timing of things, that natural rhythm on a day-to-day basis will be rewarded because your body will know, hey, Dr. B likes to do this at this time. Chuck likes to do this at this time. And it will step up to meet the moment to support you and help you do it best. >> And and that I mean again, like that's an episode unto itself is like how do you get into these rhythms? I mean, like life can be so chaotic and I think it
37:34 takes a lot of discipline to to get there. Even though um as you're going to continue to explain here, I'm sure this comes with tremendous upside if you're able to accomplish that. >> Okay. Tremendous upside. Chuck, all of these things that we're discussing today, I'm going to put this out. I'm going to put this out to the people. You could feel the difference. Because if there's inflammation, you have been feeling that the fatigue, the brain fog, the difficulty concentrating, the poor mood or feeling down or anxious, the skin changes, the gut symptoms, joint symptoms, the poor recovery, the
38:21 poor exercise. what I've just offered is you will feel the difference. So what's uh what's one way you asked me like okay so how do we establish rhythm right? Well you know it's very easy for me to sit here and be like oh well if you literally add nothing or subtract anything and you literally just do everything consistently at the same time every day. You've done that. Okay, cool. Uh yeah, you should try to do that if you can. >> Yeah, >> here's here's what I would propose. And this, by the way, has been life-changing in my own life and become a non-negotiable. Create a one-hour morning routine. Create a 1-hour evening routine
39:08 and acknowledge in that 1-hour morning routine the importance of exposure to light. In a perfect world, I get you outside within the first hour that you're awake. Now, this time of year, I get it because most of our listeners are not in the southern hemisphere. By the way, Australia, I love you. I love you. But most people are in the northern hemisphere where it's cold and it's dark. If you can't get outside, then get a light with 10,000 bucks and turn it on when you wake up immediately. All right? And if you do this, you get that light exposure in a perfect world outside.
39:55 I promise you, you will find that you have more energy. You have more focus. You have more cognitive endurance that day. That night, you will get tired about 14 hours after whatever time it was that you saw the light. So, take that time, call it 7:00 a.m. Add 14. Okay, now it's 9:00 p.m. Guess what? You're feeling sleepy around 9:00 p.m. You're ready to go to bed within an hour there. That's because you set yourself up because you told your body when the day starts. So now it knows when the day ends. And within a matter of days, there's a reason why light therapy is the preferred treatment for seasonal effective disorder where your mood is affected by the fact that you don't get light. Within a number of days, your mood will improve too. So what I'm
40:41 saying to everyone is like you will feel the difference if you get that morning light and then your evening routine. Prioritize sleep. It's important. Be consistent with your bedtime. Don't be all over the place. Choose a time. Try to do it plus or minus 30 minutes of that time. All right. When you feel tired, it's ready. It's time to go down. And the last thing to keep in mind is you want to avoid light in the evening. So, most of us are doing unnatural things like holding devices this far away from our face while we watch our television or we have our laptop and we're hacking away as I was last night, Chuck. But you nonetheless, right? And it's going to disrupt your sleep. It will drop your melatonin levels by 30%. >> Even if you put it into uh that you take the blue light off of it or whatever,
41:27 you know, they've got the nighttime uh setting on here. Does that help? Is there any scientific research to back that? Do you know? >> It helps. It helps. The other thing you could do is you could get blue light blocking glasses. Those help too. But in a perfect world, if you look, if you go back to when our grandparents lived, or frankly, not even that long ago, these things didn't even exist. >> Right. >> Right. So, um, and now here we are, and all it is is light exposure, and that light exposure is disrupting our sleep. And then we're confused of why we don't get a good night's rest. I just told you why. >> So, let Yeah. Well, let me let me ask you this. Um, we've also talked today a lot about uh the nervous system, man. So, it's like for me, I'm having a real hard time activating the parasympathetic nervous system, man. But I know that
42:13 that's something that you actually talk about quite a bit as well. So, what are some things that we might try to calm the system down there? >> Right. So, you you said that uh remind me of the exact language you used. Didn't you say that your body was too activated? Something like this. >> Stuck in fight orflight mode. stuck in fight or flight mode which is basically synonymous with sympathetic overdrive. >> Yeah. >> Right. And that is basically your your autonomic nervous system that like reacts >> and and but the problem is that's sacrificing your gut health in the process. And when you sacrifice the gut health, it creates inflammation. >> Yeah. >> Right. It feeds into the inflammation trap. So, what we want to do is take the foot off of the accelerator and gently place it on the brake and slow it down and put oursel into a position of
42:58 safety. Because when you feel safe, the body is a able to actually recover, right? You're able to actually digest your food. You're actually resting for real, right? Because you're not activated. >> Yeah. So some of the strategies there's many but like breath work so like diaphragmatic breathing which I believe is something that you were taught. >> Absolutely. >> Right. Uh meditation, prayer, going into the sauna, yoga, zone 2 cardio, right? That means like basically enough enough exercise to get your heart rate up and make it hard for you to sing, right? But enough that you could still talk. >> I know. Like even just going on the
43:44 treadmill, um slight incline, going about three and a half, four miles an hour, just a walk. Um when I do that consistently, I tend to feel better, right? That that believe it or not calms the body down by stressing it just that little bit that really helps. And the breath work, man, more than anything has been so powerful, man. I'll tell you a quick story before we move on. being at the Mayo Clinic and on the elevator there with somebody who's, you know, clearly a sports fan. He's got on a Steelers hat, a Steelers jersey, and he's like, "Man, I came here for gut issues and they're like telling me, you know, to try this breathing stuff." And he's talking to his wife and I was trying not to eavesdrop, but I I turned to the guy. I was like, "Look, dude, I used to cover the NFL for a living.
44:30 Like, I get where you're at and I know that mentality, but trust me, bro. like just drop the macho guard for a second and give it a try and it's going to help you. It's not going to cure you all the way, but it's going to help you a good 25 to 30%. Um, if not more in the moment. So, just like give it a try. And like the way that he looked at me, he was like really grateful, [laughter] you know, to be given that advice, man. Um, so I I feel very strongly about the breath work, man. Very, very strongly. >> Well, he needed to hear that, right? He needed to hear that. And I think that like the it sort of brings us back to a core. So we've just kind of placed a whole bunch of tools on the table, right? So to the listeners at home, you can go and you can select which of those tools are the ones that you want to pick up and introduce into your own life. But
45:16 the message that you just delivered to that gentleman that he needed to hear is that small choices can lead to massive results. that you don't need to look for the extreme choice. >> That you don't need to make like to use a sports analogy, you don't need to throw a Hail Mary, right? So, forget the extreme cleanses. Forget the deprivation cycles. Forget the things that seem like, oh, it's going to I'm going to try to fix everything in 30 days. Take the small choice. Take the small win. Lean into it. Make it a healthy habit. And then stack on top of that. This is how you build towards health. It's not about perfection. And it's about creating conditions where the gut and the immune system can basically cool off and then ultimately do their job much better.
46:03 >> All right, man. Well, real talk again as we kind of wind down a little bit. Um, often times the hardest step is the first step because nobody really knows how the heck to start anything. And so I guess my question to you is where should we be starting? Man, >> look, we've been having this conversation and like I've shared some of the strategies that exist. Obviously, this isn't all of them, but the bottom line is that we want to repair and restore the gut barrier, right? That's what the conclusion that we've come to. And this is exactly why I wrote my new book, Plantpowered Plus, right? Where basically by repairing everything is evidence-based, focused on repairing and restoring the gut barrier. And that breaks the inflammation loop. So, this book, it gives you the tools that you
46:49 need, the food, like what to eat, the routines, the science, and it's all bundled into a clear three-phase protocol that makes it approachable, manageable, and not overwhelming. But the truth is, like whether or not you pick up my book, that's not actually the main message today. What I really want you to hear is this. The gut and the immune system are deeply intertwined. We want to make them healthier. We have to support both with nourishing food, with consistent daily rhythms, and with enough time to rest and digest. >> Oh, I love that, bro. I'm putting into action a lot of what we talked about. So, bring us home, my man. Bring us home, Dr. B. >> So, the big takeaway for today's episode is that inflammation is not random. It also is not inevitable, and it isn't
47:35 even mysterious. In most people, this is a problem that starts at the gut barrier. When you protect the barrier, everything downstream improves. >> Inflammation isn't just something that happens to you. >> No, it's something your body is responding to. But it is not inevitable. You can change the signals coming from the gut. And when you do, you don't just quiet inflammation, you break the loop. In fact, you can actually create the opposite, Chuck, which is a rising loop of health, where the microbes support the gut barrier, creating safe spaces for both the microbes and the immune cells. That's not an inflammation trap. That's
48:22 resilience. >> Yeah, brother. Well, look, man, I appreciate you. Seriously, I've learned a ton today. So, let's just go ahead and wrap all this up. uh put a put a bow on this episode of the Gut Insiders. And so you who's watching and listening right now, if this helped you understand your body in a new way, hit like, subscribe, and share it with somebody who needs clarity [music] without all of the confusion. And we we will see you next time, my friends. Thanks, everyone.
